Author Topic: Low single thread speed  (Read 1914 times)

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Offline Gary

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Low single thread speed
« on: Jan 10, 2018, 07:56:43 »
I was wondering if anyone else is seeing this if they are on a Zen pop, though Idnet. Support have said they could move me, that was before Christmas but normally my line works well. I wanted to know if anyone else has this issue, as it might be something more local rather than a zen/idnet backhaul issue.

« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2018, 08:03:58 by Gary »

Offline Bill

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #1 on: Jan 10, 2018, 09:35:55 »
That's very similar to mine... it's a Zen problem.

IDNet are trying to find out what the problem is, and if it can be fixed. If Zen can't (or won't) fix it then, like you, I've been offered a backhaul switch.
Bill
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Offline Gary

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #2 on: Jan 10, 2018, 10:50:11 »
Cheers, Bill. I think Jonathan Green is the guy they need to talk to he is the core network engineer at Zen, and was who Brian talked to last time when this happened I'm pretty sure. Ive seen people having issues with TTB backhaul too as I read Zenuse talk talk LLU equipment to connect to Zens own pops from local exchanges if they are satellites like mine is.
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2018, 11:15:57 by Gary »

Offline nowster

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #3 on: Jan 10, 2018, 10:53:34 »
And I thought all the guys at Zen were called Dave...

(Currently sitting about a quarter of a mile from Sandbrook Park.)

Offline Bill

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #4 on: Jan 11, 2018, 07:22:38 »
I supplied Simon with some test data I'd garnered and it's magically gone back to where it should be:



Some signs of slight congestion developing later on as t'internet wakes up, but we'll see how it goes during the day.

How about yours Gary?
Bill
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Offline Gary

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #5 on: Jan 11, 2018, 08:03:42 »
I supplied Simon with some test data I'd garnered and it's magically gone back to where it should be:



Some signs of slight congestion developing later on as t'internet wakes up, but we'll see how it goes during the day.

How about yours Gary?


Same here Bill. Just checked mine and its back how it should be pretty much, congestion on my upstream, I use Qualcomm's  streamboost QoS so I'll re-set my throughput settings later and see how it goes.  :fingers:


Offline jaydub

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #6 on: Jan 13, 2018, 15:14:11 »
That's very similar to mine... it's a Zen problem.

IDNet are trying to find out what the problem is, and if it can be fixed. If Zen can't (or won't) fix it then, like you, I've been offered a backhaul switch.

Where was Brian planning on switching you to?  TTB or BTW?

I am on a TTB backhaul at the moment and have very inconsistent single thread speeds.  I am being shifted to a BTW backhaul on Monday to try and rule out LLU equipment at the fibre exchange .

jdigz7 on TTB was suffering from evening congestion on BTW and is seeing similarly intermittent single thread speeds, just like me.

On the other hand, Roksan (who I think is Musical4Ever here) was moved from BTW to TTB and is now seeing perfect single thread speeds as far as I know.

Just goes to show it's all a bit less than straightforward.

Glad you guys appear to be sorted.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Monday!

Offline Bill

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #7 on: Jan 13, 2018, 16:06:22 »
Quote from: jaydub
Where was Brian planning on switching you to?  TTB or BTW?

No idea, the matter hasn't come up yet :)

Seems OK at the moment, possibly some moderate evening congestion but I need to collect more data. It only really affects 4K streaming (specifically, how fast iPlayer etc thinks my line is) and there's not a lot of that about yet, so no great rush.

I'd rather stay with Zen if possible, gut feeling is that any problems are more likely to get sorted with them than with TTB or BTW, but we'll see how it goes.

Quote from: jaydub
Just goes to show it's all a bit less than straightforward.

Tell me about it  :(
Bill
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Offline jaydub

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #8 on: Jan 13, 2018, 16:52:37 »
No idea, the matter hasn't come up yet :)

Seems OK at the moment, possibly some moderate evening congestion but I need to collect more data. It only really affects 4K streaming (specifically, how fast iPlayer etc thinks my line is) and there's not a lot of that about yet, so no great rush.

I'd rather stay with Zen if possible, gut feeling is that any problems are more likely to get sorted with them than with TTB or BTW, but we'll see how it goes.

Tell me about it  :(

Thanks for the update.  I can relate to your desire to stay with Zen, as I suspect you are right.

If Brian had given me a choice, I think I would have opted for Zen over BTW.

I have a spreadsheet of all my TTB results for the last 3 months, which makes interesting reading.  They are much more akin to my results from when I was with Pulse8 on a resold TTB product than when I was with Aquiss (on a BTW backhaul), where the only problems I generally had were during the day when their business prioritisation had a significant impact on the ping response times as seen on my BQM monitor and on the single thread speeds.

It is the off-peak Aquiss results that give me some real hope of an improvement come Monday.  Time will tell!!

Offline Gary

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #9 on: Jan 13, 2018, 23:31:03 »
4K streaming and 4K HDR are all working fine now and I’ve gained a whole 1Mbs after ast night at 11pm. I’m not complaining though.  I’ve not noticed any evening congestion but that could easily be localised I suppose. 

Offline Gary

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #10 on: Jan 14, 2018, 10:05:08 »
Where was Brian planning on switching you to?  TTB or BTW?
I'm not sure about Bill, but they were thinking of transferring me to TTB Backhaul. Glad that didn't have to happen, although I still lament having a tiny battery fault a year or so back and being put on an awful pair loosing myself 7Mbps which I'll never get back. I used to get  62-64Mbps now its 54-55Mbps. Battery faults don't really effect Broadband, HR faults do though. That was a Zen issue with single thread again and of course loosing the 7Mbps never cured that issue, but Brian did when communicating with Zen. It seems to be  a recurring theme.

« Last Edit: Jan 14, 2018, 10:14:29 by Gary »

Offline Bill

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #11 on: Jan 14, 2018, 22:08:16 »
Quote from: jaydub
I have a spreadsheet of all my TTB results for the last 3 months, which makes interesting reading.
Ditto  ;D

Noticed something interesting tonight- my "idle" BQM ping is ~10mSec, watching some UHD on Amazon (which was only streaming at ~15Mbps) it went up to ~25mSec, but tried a bit of Blue Planet 2 (which streams at ~23Mbps)  and it only went up to ~12-13mSec. Seems the Beeb knows what it's doing ;)

No buffering, although speed test still suggesting some congestion in the evenings:


Bill
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Offline Gary

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #12 on: Jan 15, 2018, 08:17:37 »
Ditto  ;D

Noticed something interesting tonight- my "idle" BQM ping is ~10mSec, watching some UHD on Amazon (which was only streaming at ~15Mbps) it went up to ~25mSec, but tried a bit of Blue Planet 2 (which streams at ~23Mbps)  and it only went up to ~12-13mSec. Seems the Beeb knows what it's doing ;)

No buffering, although speed test still suggesting some congestion in the evenings:



I did a check Saturday and Sunday night, I noticed some evening congestion has crept back in, but all streaming is working well, Netflix and Amazon, YouTube and BBC iPlayer all stream without issue with 4K and 4K HDR.

 Depending on load with other stuff in the house a router with a good QoS can help to prioritise device and applications. I found for myself the Qualcomm streamboost system which is set and forget pretty much as it has a cloud database of devices and apps, it updates now and then and seems to work well. For instance making sure iPlayer gets what it needs vs say a tablet browsing or a Bluetooth speaker playing, so priority for bandwidth and latency are kept in check for each device and what's used on it.

 I do wonder though how reliable speed checks are, TBB I think runs off Zens servers but I may be wrong, but DSL Reports always gives my bufferbloat a score of A+ a lot depends on servers being used for these tests I guess, as congestion can happen anywhere along the path. If you say use the Ookla multithread speed test you can get a large variation just using servers in London for instance. I did Notice that Zen have quite a few area codes being worked on in the next day or so including mine, so I'll keep watching.


Offline jaydub

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #13 on: Jan 15, 2018, 10:43:55 »
I do wonder though how reliable speed checks are, TBB I think runs off Zens servers but I may be wrong, but DSL Reports always gives my bufferbloat a score of A+ a lot depends on servers being used for these tests I guess, as congestion can happen anywhere along the path. If you say use the Ookla multithread speed test you can get a large variation just using servers in London for instance. I did Notice that Zen have quite a few area codes being worked on in the next day or so including mine, so I'll keep watching.

I'm pretty certain that TBB's testers are hosted in their data centre in London and Zen just make use of them.

In terms of reliability on the TBB tester, what do you see if you do three tests one after another?  Consistent results or significant variation between them.

I know I'm on a TTB backhaul (until some time later today) so definitely not directly comparable, but my last three results at just after midnight this morning were: 52.4, 61.5 & 68.1Mbps.  This variation is typical of what I see whatever time of day I test.

Offline Bill

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #14 on: Jan 15, 2018, 10:46:23 »
I thought (briefly) about applying QoS, but I live alone so if anything starts competing for bandwidth it must have been me who started it, so it’s up to me to stop it  :P

Speed tests- afaik tbb use exclusively their own servers. Partly so that, if something goes wrong, they know they can fix it and partly because of Seb’s (self-confessed) paranoia about security. If he could find a way to block all external connections whilst maintaining internet access, he would :P. And as for Ookla-based tests… they’re good for bragging rights but useless for anything diagnostic, they discard nearly half the data- Ookla methodology.

The congestion I’m getting is more than it really should be, but not enough to cause problems. I suppose I could ask for a backhaul change, but considering the alternatives I’d rather stick with the devil I know :P  (For the moment anyway.)

On a more general note, I think the increasing affordability of 4K smart TVs is going to give some ISPs (no names...) real problems with the amount of bandwidth/customer they provision…

Quote from: Gary
I did Notice that Zen have quite a few area codes being worked on

Have you got the link for that, sounds useful?
Bill
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Offline Gary

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #15 on: Jan 15, 2018, 11:18:58 »
I thought (briefly) about applying QoS, but I live alone so if anything starts competing for bandwidth it must have been me who started it, so it’s up to me to stop it  :P

Speed tests- afaik tbb use exclusively their own servers. Partly so that, if something goes wrong, they know they can fix it and partly because of Seb’s (self-confessed) paranoia about security. If he could find a way to block all external connections whilst maintaining internet access, he would :P. And as for Ookla-based tests… they’re good for bragging rights but useless for anything diagnostic, they discard nearly half the data- Ookla methodology.

The congestion I’m getting is more than it really should be, but not enough to cause problems. I suppose I could ask for a backhaul change, but considering the alternatives I’d rather stick with the devil I know :P  (For the moment anyway.)

On a more general note, I think the increasing affordability of 4K smart TVs is going to give some ISPs (no names...) real problems with the amount of bandwidth/customer they provision…

Have you got the link for that, sounds useful?

Here is the link, Bill. https://status.zen.co.uk/broadband/ Just type your area code in and see what comes up.

Offline Bill

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #16 on: Jan 15, 2018, 11:36:38 »
Here is the link, Bill. https://status.zen.co.uk/broadband/ Just type your area code in and see what comes up.

Thanks- nothing on my area code, but there's nothing serious wrong so I wasn't really expecting anything!
Bill
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Offline Gary

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #17 on: Jan 15, 2018, 12:07:09 »
Thanks- nothing on my area code, but there's nothing serious wrong so I wasn't really expecting anything!
Mine list loads of area codes plus mine for the 16th and 17th, maybe things are falling apart here  ;D I agree with the 4K TV demand issue, 4K TV's are now cheap and many now have HDR10 and Dolby Vision and HLG HDR too, so even more bandwidth needed. Sadly I have noticed the shops selling those TV's don't make it clear that to steam at these resolutions you need a minimum bandwidth which is a bit sneaky. I can see in the evening congestion will probably get worse over time before it gets better for many ISP's. Also 4K gaming and te huge patches needed will tax the system even more. Let alone 4K screens on Phones. (my eyes could not tell the difference on screens that small)
« Last Edit: Jan 15, 2018, 12:16:03 by Gary »

Offline jaydub

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #18 on: Jan 15, 2018, 20:40:53 »
There is a Zen customer on TBB that has just raised the subject of poor single thread speeds:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/zen/t/4580234-return-of-the-dreaded-slow-single-thread-download-test.html

You are not alone.

Offline Bill

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #19 on: Jan 15, 2018, 21:23:22 »
I see he's up in the wilds of Scotland... the Zen engineers must feel as though they're playing Whack-a-mole  :P
Bill
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Offline nowster

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #20 on: Jan 15, 2018, 21:41:22 »
I see he's up in the wilds of Scotland... the Zen engineers must feel as though they're playing Whack-a-mole  :P

Actually, with the coming of 4G mobile to Aberdaron (remote NW Wales) this week, it's actually starting to look viable to drop the ADSL Max (2Mbps on a good day) for a data-only mobile package. Currently it's £22/month for 15GB at 4G speed vs. £20/month for 50GB of slow ADSL Max.
« Last Edit: Jan 15, 2018, 21:47:13 by nowster »

Offline Bill

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #21 on: Jan 15, 2018, 22:43:12 »
Quote from: nowster
Currently it's £22/month for 15GB at 4G speed

It's probably a good thing that 4G can't handle UHD speeds... 15GB is about one and a half episodes of Blue Planet 2  :eek4:
Bill
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Offline nowster

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #22 on: Jan 16, 2018, 00:17:56 »
Actually 4G can do up to 60Mbps with some mobile companies. The theoretical max is about 150Mbps, IIRC.

Offline Gary

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #23 on: Jan 16, 2018, 08:23:34 »
Actually 4G can do up to 60Mbps with some mobile companies. The theoretical max is about 150Mbps, IIRC.
I get over 100Mbps where I live with EE but still data wise wwatching UHD/UHD HDR content via 4G would eat data like crazy.

Offline Gary

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Re: Low single thread speed
« Reply #24 on: Jan 16, 2018, 10:22:13 »
There is a Zen customer on TBB that has just raised the subject of poor single thread speeds:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/zen/t/4580234-return-of-the-dreaded-slow-single-thread-download-test.html

You are not alone.
Mines pretty much back to what it was, although there is engineering work tonight to a large amount of post codes (including mine)  Then on the 18th, 19th, 22nd which all include mine again then just my postcode on the 23rd. Maybe the congestion on the upstream may get smoothed out :eyebrow:

« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2018, 10:26:38 by Gary »


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