Eek eek

[Glenn]

I brought myself a new mouse today, a Microsoft Natural Wireless Laser 6000 model 69K-00001, because I was getting RSI across the back of my hand. I must say it is the most comfortable mouse I have used, it does not twist your hand when in use, the whole forearm/hand stays in it's natural posture.

[Rik]

Thanks, Glenn, it's something I need to think about as I sometimes end up with 'mouse hand' of an evening. 

[Glenn]

It is big Rik, it stands about 2 inches high, but it feels 'right' in the palm of my hand.

[Rik]

Let me know how you get on, would you? It seems to have mixed reviews.

[bobleslie]

I treated myself to this a few weeks ago for a new computer I built to integrate within my Media Centre.  Hence, the wireless facility.

I like it a lot and you can't  really complain about the price. 

[Rik]

The price is right, Bob, but it doesn't seem to have the ergonomic advantages. 

[bobleslie]

Well it is an ergonomic design, but I can see that it may not be ergonomic enough for your needs. 

The product reviews on the site are quite revealing.

[Rik]

I find product reviews quite confused at times, you end up with people giving very subjective views of their experience.

[quandam]

Don't let Baz know you are dealing with ebuyer, it could spoil his week!

[Rik]

 

[Baz]

Don't let Baz know you are dealing with ebuyer, it could spoil his week!

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Baz]

It is big Rik, it stands about 2 inches high, but it feels 'right' in the palm of my hand.

[Baz]

im thinking of switching back to cord as the main problem I had was when needed to get into bios......you just cant with a wireless keyboard 

[bobleslie]

im thinking of switching back to cord as the main problem I had was when needed to get into bios......you just cant with a wireless keyboard 

I have no problem with my kit purchased from ebuyer. It comes up straight away just like wired.

Did I mention that I bought the gear from ebuyer? 

[Ann]

My very expensive backlit keyboard, for some unknown reason doesn't let this computer build start up.  It may be that it's USB but after trying all the known ways to fix it (the legacy option in BIOS etc), it still wouldn't work, so I bought a ridiculously cheap PS2 wireless keyboard and rechargeable mouse set which is fine.  The mouse is a bit light, I'd prefer something with a bit more weight but the keyboard is really nice.  It's by Nortek and the set cost a tenner.  Ideally eventually I'd like to get a keyboard without the number pad but it's hard to find exactly what I want.

[john]

It is big Rik, it stands about 2 inches high, but it feels 'right' in the palm of my hand.

yeah but whats the mouse like ? 

[sobranie]

Don't know whether this info. is still relevant but may be helpful;

http://davidbau.com/archives/2005/05/21/worlds_best_computer_keyboard.html

[Simon]

My last couple of keyboards have been IBM, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them for build quality.

[Noreen]

I use an earlier version of this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-Cordless-Laser-Mouse-Notebooks/dp/B000U75V02/ref=pd_cp_ce_1 and it's so comfortable.

[Ray]

I've been using one of these for a couple of years and I have found it very comfortable and easy to use and I especially like the free wheel scroll option that it has. 

[Noreen]

That's the larger version, Ray, probably more suited to men's hands. I use the free-wheel too.

[Rik]

Can you expand on that, Ray?

[Ray]

That's the larger version, Ray, probably more suited to men's hands. I use the free-wheel too.

Ah, I hadn't realised that the smaller one also had the free wheel option on it, Noreen, I must admit I really miss that option if I'm using a different mouse.  

[Ray]

Can you expand on that, Ray?

Yes, Rik, basically you can operate the scroll wheel in 2 ways, conventionally with the click to click mode or you can set it to free spin mode, meaning if you're reading a Forum page say you can just flick the wheel and be at the bottom of the page almost instantly, thus making scrolling of pages much faster.

[Rik]

Thanks, Ray. There is a facility on the MS mice to increase the scroll speed which can be made to have a similar effect, but it's fixed in the software, you can't vary it from the mouse itself.

[Ray]

Thanks, Ray. There is a facility on the MS mice to increase the scroll speed which can be made to have a similar effect, but it's fixed in the software, you can't vary it from the mouse itself.

This is done in software on the Logitech as well and there is an automatic mode where you can select which applications you want to use it in. The scroll speed is varied by the speed you move the scroll wheel at so you can go slowly if you want or straight to the end of your page very fast. 

[Rik]

In that case, Ray, it sounds very similar to the MS approach.

[Glenn]

I believe a lot of MS mice are made by logitech

[Rik]

It wouldn't surprise me, and Logitech mice are made by some unknown Chinese firm.

[Ray]

It does, Rik, this is the settings tab for scrolling it might give you a better idea of the options. 

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Rik]

Similar but a bit more refined, Ray.

[Noreen]

This is actually the mouse that I've got. The free-wheel function is great, the faster you spin the wheel the faster it goes. I also like the five programmable buttons. http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/mice/devices/165&cl=gb,en

[Rik]

I always have trouble remembering what I programmed them to do.

[quandam]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or Month, Year or decade!

[Niall]

This is done in software on the Logitech as well and there is an automatic mode where you can select which applications you want to use it in. The scroll speed is varied by the speed you move the scroll wheel at so you can go slowly if you want or straight to the end of your page very fast. 

The only downside to the Logitech software that I've found (as I've used Logitech mice for about 5 years now) is that if you check for updates via the program it NEVER finds them. You have to check their site for them, which strikes me as being a bit silly.

[Rik]

I brought myself a new mouse today, a Microsoft Natural Wireless Laser 6000 model 69K-00001, because I was getting RSI across the back of my hand. I must say it is the most comfortable mouse I have used, it does not twist your hand when in use, the whole forearm/hand stays in it's natural posture.

How do you feel about it after a few days use, Glenn?

[Gary]

I treated myself to this a few weeks ago for a new computer I built to integrate within my Media Centre.  Hence, the wireless facility.

I like it a lot and you can't  really complain about the price. 

I had that, the shift key is tiny on the keyboard now I have a laptop I use a Microsoft wireless dongel with the mouse from that setup which is very comfortable, becuase my laptop is so big, its a desk top replacement type with an 18.4 inch 1080p screen the mouse is the perfect size and fits my right hand perfectly I do not bother with the Microsoft drivers though. not for a mouse and it works fine as is. 

[Glenn]

How do you feel about it after a few days use, Glenn?

My hand likes it, it doesn't ache as much, so using the mouse with the correct posture must help. Batteries are meant to last up to 6 months which means the running cost are low too.

[Rik]

Thanks. I'll give one a whirl. I notice one of the reviews said the wireless dongle was very large, do you think that's true?

[Glenn]

It's larger than the base of the mouse

[Rik]

Does it have a lead, or does it plug in directly to a socket?

[Glenn]

It has an approx 2m USB lead.

[Rik]

Thanks. Ordered. 

[esh]

I have a small menagerie of Logitech MX-580 and their larger brother, G-5. They are good for people with big hands, and I like lots of buttons. The back/forward thing from nudging the wheel mouse left and right is a neat trick too.

[Rik]

I use the tilt wheel quite a bit on my MS mice.

[psp83]

I brought myself a new mouse today, a Microsoft Natural Wireless Laser 6000 model 69K-00001, because I was getting RSI across the back of my hand. I must say it is the most comfortable mouse I have used, it does not twist your hand when in use, the whole forearm/hand stays in it's natural posture.

Does it come as a set ? (keyboard and mouse?) i'm looking for something as i have RSI and its not nice when i have to use a PC for upto 18hrs a day

[Rik]

I've bought it as a separate, Paul.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Natural-Wireless-Laser-Mouse/dp/B000H7CF1I/ref=pd_cp_ce_1

[Glenn]

Does it come as a set ? (keyboard and mouse?) i'm looking for something as i have RSI and its not nice when i have to use a PC for upto 18hrs a day

We have just had a couple of theses delivered at work today, the mouse is very similar to the 6000 Rik has ordered.

[Rik]

I thought I'd ordered the same mouse as you, Glenn?

[Glenn]

You have   it was just easier to relate to your post rather than the start of the thread.

[Rik]

Phew. 

[Glenn]

Judging from the reviews of the keyboard/mouse combo, you will either love it or hate it, Marmite of the mouse world

[Rik]

Well, I like Marmite. The reviews I've seen encourage me - I quite like a bigger, heavier, mouse as it stabilises my movements. Experimenting with the apparent angle, it feels a more natural position to have the hand in. I'll let you know.

[Glenn]

just rest you arm on the edge of the desk, you hand will tilt over to about 45 - 60 degrees, that is the angle of the palm rest of the mouse.

[Rik]

Feels much better than parallel to the surface. Now I want a keyboard that is toblerone shaped.

[Glenn]

You can get bendable natural keyboards that parts the 2 half of the key layout, but I haven't seen one where the keyboard is hinged through the centre, to make the rise steeper.

[Rik]

Time for a hacksaw and some Araldite.

[Glenn]

How about a datahand?

[Rik]

There was a similar device back in BBC-B days, a sort of shorthand keyboard.

[psp83]

I've bought it as a separate, Paul.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Natural-Wireless-Laser-Mouse/dp/B000H7CF1I/ref=pd_cp_ce_1

But buying it separate means you will have 2 wireless receivers?

[Rik]

No, as I prefer a wired k/b.

[Rik]

Judging from the reviews of the keyboard/mouse combo, you will either love it or hate it, Marmite of the mouse world

Well, neither Sue nor I can get on with the mouse, it just doesn't feel right and, for us is rather clunky in operation, transferring the strain on the arm further up, away from the wrist. I felt it was a bit laggy in response too, Sue didn't, but then I normally use a wired mouse while she uses a wireless.

[psp83]

Got mine today, not same as yours thou Rik, not tested them yet though.

For home i got : Microsoft Wireless Laser Desktop 7000

For work i got : Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Desktop 7000

Got a different one for home since i use the pc less at home.

[Rik]

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with it, Paul.

[psp83]

Will let you know.

Been looking for the right mouse and keyboard for ages now and not managed to find one yet.

Might have to get a trackball in the end if i cant get on with this.

[Rik]

I tried one a while ago, but couldn't get used to being 'upside down', so to speak. A graphics tablet is best, but it's not really suited to things like browsing.

[psp83]

Well i'm sat infront the pc for hours on end every day coding websites, so i do alot of typing and moving the mouse around. I dont think a tablet would be any good for me.

Doc said i can have an op on it but that will be my very last choice!

[Rik]

Very wise, Paul. Surgery should generally be a last resort. I do find soaking the arm alternately in warm and cold water helps.

[psp83]

A mouse mat with attached arm bath!


Errrmmm, nah, will get the desk abit wet! 

[Rik]

Afterwards!

[psp83]

well the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Desktop 7000 is alot different to what im used to.. its like learning to type again on this keyboard.

mouse is weird aswell.. it just doesnt feel "natural".. i'm going to give it time thou.

[Rik]

We had a similar reaction to the 6000 mouse, Paul. It felt right resting the hand on it, but it use, it seemed clumsy.

[psp83]

We had a similar reaction to the 6000 mouse, Paul. It felt right resting the hand on it, but it use, it seemed clumsy.

having a hard job doing every day stuff like selecting text, selecting menus etc

and to be honest, giving me more pain in my arm!

[Rik]

That's about what we found - different place, but definitely not comfortable in use. I also found it a bit 'laggy' on key clicks, but that may be this machine, which doesn't seem to like wireless mice.

[psp83]

Well.. i'm going back to my old mouse and keyboard, after an hour of use i'm in more pain than my old set.

The search continues!

So if anyone is used to ergo keyboards and mice then i have a new set for sale!

[Rik]

You lasted about as long as me, Paul.

[psp83]

lol.. they should seriously take the word "natural" out.. its not natural, far from it in my eyes!

[Rik]

Perhaps they should call it "Relatively natural in our opinion"? 

[psp83]

And under a category on there site called "Wind up devices" 

[Rik]

 

[psp83]

keyboard & mouse is now sold.. Boss likes it and gets on with it, so he bought it. 

[Rik]

My boss didn't like it either.

[psp83]

hehe