Author Topic: Channel Stability  (Read 9871 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Polchraine

  • Master Netter
  • *******
  • Posts: 1822
  • Karma: 44
Channel Stability
« on: Jun 10, 2010, 15:19:05 »

I was directed here to ask about a problem in retaining channels.


I have a large house and garden and some metal floors and roofs which are not really conducive to good transmissions and find I need 3 WAPs to cover my house and garden.

I have a 2700 v6 on the line and it is stable with excellent results.     This feeds a 24 port managed switch which in turn connects to a 2700 v5 and an Speedtouch - both of those are just used as WAPs.

My one immediate neighbour has two SSIDs both on Ch 1,  a neighbour (not too close) has another WAP also on Ch 1  and there is a close by cafe with a public access point (unsecured) also on Ch1.

Coverage from my three overlap each other slightly and I am running them on separate channels and want to use Ch13 on the v6,  Ch9 on the v5 and Ch5 on the Speedtouch.

Last night I was changing keys and looking at error stats &c and saved the configs again - and I know that the v6 was on 13.    This morning it was very slow and when I launched inSSIDer I could see why - the v6 was on Ch1 and the other two on Ch9 and Ch5 as set.    On access the setup pages, I could see that Ch13 was specified.   So, I changed it to a new channel, saved config and it moved, then changed again to Ch13 and saved - it moved to Ch13.    A little later, even though set up said Ch13 the v6 was working on Ch1.

Any idea why?    Is it a known bug or is something odd happening.


I know having 5 Channel separation is ideal but I cannot achieve that and separating by 4 seems to be a reasonable solution but I don't want to drop to 4, 8 & 12 as it means one will be just three channels away from the crowded and noisy Ch1.    It is also interesting that my three and one neighbours transmissions are the normal "bell" shape, but the other neighbour has near vertical rises and a wide flat top - and I cannot get my mind into RF to think about why!
I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.

Offline Rik

  • Admin Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 203018
  • Karma: 1423
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #1 on: Jun 10, 2010, 15:20:57 »
One of our experts will be along shortly to help, but welcome to the forum. :welc: :karma:
Rik
--------------------

This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Offline Steve

  • Former Staff
  • *****
  • Posts: 20635
  • Karma: 497
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #2 on: Jun 10, 2010, 15:29:36 »
 :welc: :karma:

I'm not the 2700 expert either but http://bt2700hgv.tripod.com/062.htm

Wireless channel number changing syndrome
Steve
------------
This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Offline Polchraine

  • Master Netter
  • *******
  • Posts: 1822
  • Karma: 44
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #3 on: Jun 10, 2010, 15:35:44 »

Steve,

I did see that ... although that one refers to the unit jumping to Ch13 which is almost the opposite to mine where it is jumping from!   I can confirm that the details shown include the correct channel frequency.   

I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.

Offline MisterW

  • Grand Netter
  • ******
  • Posts: 762
  • Karma: 32
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #4 on: Jun 10, 2010, 17:51:04 »
Is there anything in the Event log to show when the channel changed ?

Offline kinmel

  • Netter Nutter
  • ********
  • Posts: 4701
  • Karma: 491
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #5 on: Jun 10, 2010, 17:53:39 »
Hi

I have not seen that reported anywhere else.
Alan  ‹(•¿•)›

What is the date of the referendum for England to become an independent country ?

Offline Polchraine

  • Master Netter
  • *******
  • Posts: 1822
  • Karma: 44
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #6 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:02:12 »
Is there anything in the Event log to show when the channel changed ?


Nothing,  the only entries are similar to:

INF     2010-06-10T14:32:25+01:00  sys     Wireless Key set
INF    2010-06-10T14:32:25+01:00    sys    Wireless channel set to 13
INF    2010-06-10T14:32:25+01:00    sys    Wireless power set to 25
INF    2010-06-10T14:32:45+01:00    sys    Wireless SSID set to

These occur when I have tried setting it back to 13 or 12 where it sits for a while before hopping to Ch1.     I presume that Ch0 is the Automatic setting - which I tried and that selects Ch1 but nothing in the log that states Ch1.




I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.

Offline Rik

  • Admin Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 203018
  • Karma: 1423
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #7 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:03:07 »
Odd. Have you tried using channels 1, 6 and 11?
Rik
--------------------

This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Offline Steve

  • Former Staff
  • *****
  • Posts: 20635
  • Karma: 497
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #8 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:10:56 »
A useless comment but its an American Router and they don't allow channel 13 do they?
Steve
------------
This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Offline MisterW

  • Grand Netter
  • ******
  • Posts: 762
  • Karma: 32
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #9 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:17:49 »
It should with UK BT firmware.

Offline Polchraine

  • Master Netter
  • *******
  • Posts: 1822
  • Karma: 44
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #10 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:19:46 »
Odd. Have you tried using channels 1, 6 and 11?

Ch 1 has four or five other WAPs close by and is almost impossible to use.

I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.

Offline Rik

  • Admin Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 203018
  • Karma: 1423
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #11 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:21:01 »
I was just thinking that those three have no overlap, so it would be interesting to see if they 'stuck'.
Rik
--------------------

This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Offline Polchraine

  • Master Netter
  • *******
  • Posts: 1822
  • Karma: 44
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #12 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:22:03 »
A useless comment but its an American Router and they don't allow channel 13 do they?

Ch13 is allowed - it is in the menu.   v5 is only up to Ch12 and Speedtouch/Thomson/Alcatel only go to Ch11 because of French restrictions and there is not a UK variant.

It works on Ch13, but then with no intervention jumps to Ch1   and I have also witnessed a Ch12 to Ch1 jump too.

I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.

Offline Polchraine

  • Master Netter
  • *******
  • Posts: 1822
  • Karma: 44
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #13 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:26:35 »
I was just thinking that those three have no overlap, so it would be interesting to see if they 'stuck'.

I believe that I have had that previously with v5 on Ch6, Speedtouch on Ch11 and v6 on Ch1 - but that may have been because it had jumped from Ch11 - the location of the two on Ch11 was sufficiently separate to minimise interference.   At that time I was restricted to Ch11 as someone had a PC card that only supported 1-11.

I will try it later - currently have 13 selected and waiting for it to jump.

I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.

Offline Rik

  • Admin Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 203018
  • Karma: 1423
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #14 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:28:32 »
That was what I thought it would be worth trying to eliminate.
Rik
--------------------

This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Offline MisterW

  • Grand Netter
  • ******
  • Posts: 762
  • Karma: 32
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #15 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:34:21 »
I've been thinking about this a little more, and looking at the tripod site. I don't have a v6 one all of mine are v5 so I'm not sure about this, but looking at the tripod site, the channel display seems to show the actual channel and the configured channel. This tends to imply that it expects to allow for a change. Could it be that its 'clever' and automatically looks for other networks and tries to move its operating channel as far away as possible from interference?
In your case Polchraine, with your other WAP's on channels 5 & 9 I wonder if its picking the best of a bad job and switching to ch 1. Can you try for a while without the other WAP on channel 9 and see if it makes any difference ?

Quote
v5 is only up to Ch12
My v5 (5.29.107.12) will go up to 13.

Offline Steve

  • Former Staff
  • *****
  • Posts: 20635
  • Karma: 497
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #16 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:36:24 »
 :clever:
Steve
------------
This post reflects my own views, opinions and experience, not those of IDNet.

Offline Polchraine

  • Master Netter
  • *******
  • Posts: 1822
  • Karma: 44
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #17 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:40:07 »
I've been thinking about this a little more, and looking at the tripod site. I don't have a v6 one all of mine are v5 so I'm not sure about this, but looking at the tripod site, the channel display seems to show the actual channel and the configured channel. This tends to imply that it expects to allow for a change. Could it be that its 'clever' and automatically looks for other networks and tries to move its operating channel as far away as possible from interference?
In your case Polchraine, with your other WAP's on channels 5 & 9 I wonder if its picking the best of a bad job and switching to ch 1. Can you try for a while without the other WAP on channel 9 and see if it makes any difference ?


I'll see what happens   ...

The v6 display only gives teh selected Channel - I have never seen the image shown on the Tripod site with 2 channels shown.

As for best of a bad job, Ch1 is as good/bad as Ch13 from my network perspective and in fact with all of the others on Ch1 is is the worst of a bad job.



I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.

Offline Polchraine

  • Master Netter
  • *******
  • Posts: 1822
  • Karma: 44
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #18 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:48:01 »

Thanks for all of your comments so far.      It is baffling me and others I have spoken to.

I need to admit to what I do ...  I provide consultancy services in the field of remote communications - primarily product definition and management along with turning around failing projects.   A lot of the work is in the provision of satellite based services using very portable terminals on ships and aircraft and the distribution of Internet connectivity from those.     So, it is not as though I am an amateur in the field but I really am scratching my head with it.

This is not meant to be a put down to any of you as any suggestions and comments are useful and maybe one will be the answer.   Just thought a little more about me would be useful especially as I am new here.


I have also had an email from BT (yes a BT customer) saying they are sending me another hub.    They were equally baffled when I called this afternoon.



I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.

Offline MisterW

  • Grand Netter
  • ******
  • Posts: 762
  • Karma: 32
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #19 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:53:09 »
Here's a couple of interesting snippets from the dslreports site , referring to 2wire gateways, not sure what model but the firmware is pretty similar across them anyway

Quote
So i went ahead and forced the AP to use channel 11. It worked and stayed on channel 11 for a few days but then magically changed again and is currently on channel 1. Why cant the RG just stay on the channel that we define? I love how underneath the channel definition is a blurb that states "Note: User selected channels may be overwritten automatically to optimize the wireless performance of the gateway"

I could see the gateway changing the channel if it is set to Auto, but if I set it explicitly to channel 11 I want the damn thing to stay on channel 11. What is the point of having a user selectable channel number if the RG can change it to any channel it desires even when its not set to auto.
Quote
The modem constantly monitors the noise levels and switches to the cleanest channel which could change several times in a day as conditions change.

Link to the full thread if you're interested http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r23579809-2wire-RG-always-changing-wireless-channel

Quote
I have also had an email from BT (yes a BT customer) saying they are sending me another hub.    They were equally baffled when I called this afternoon.
I can't imagine another hub will make any difference if its got the same f/w, after all you're not the only person to have seen the problem according to the tripod site.
It doesn't take much to baffle BT  ;D

Offline kinmel

  • Netter Nutter
  • ********
  • Posts: 4701
  • Karma: 491
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #20 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:54:21 »

I have had 4 of my V6 hubs reset to channel 13 and we will see if anything happens to any of them
Alan  ‹(•¿•)›

What is the date of the referendum for England to become an independent country ?

Offline MisterW

  • Grand Netter
  • ******
  • Posts: 762
  • Karma: 32
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #21 on: Jun 10, 2010, 19:59:40 »
Quote
yes a BT customer
Don't worry I'm an interloper ( from PlusNet ) as well  :)
I joined at first mainly because of the 2700 forum, but they're a friendly lot on here and I've joined in a few other threads since I've been here.

@kinmel, What other channels are in use nearby ?

Offline Polchraine

  • Master Netter
  • *******
  • Posts: 1822
  • Karma: 44
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #22 on: Jun 10, 2010, 20:04:27 »
Thanks for the link MisterW -

The comment about the channel being automatically overwritten does not appear on mine ... missing or the function removed!   As for choosing interference free, then it should avoid Ch1 and I have also seen it jump from Ch12 to Ch1 - always to Ch1.




The extra hub will not go to waste - I can then replace the SpeedTouch - or enhance the network with a fourth WAP - permanently on Ch1.

It doesn't take much to baffle BT  ;D


Be careful - certain part's of BT maybe - others such as my old team, would take a lot more.


« Last Edit: Jun 10, 2010, 20:09:22 by Polchraine »
I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.

Offline Polchraine

  • Master Netter
  • *******
  • Posts: 1822
  • Karma: 44
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #23 on: Jun 10, 2010, 20:06:51 »
I have had 4 of my V6 hubs reset to channel 13 and we will see if anything happens to any of them

It will be interesting as they should all see each other and if the comment above is correct, recognize interference and three of the four change.  It will be interesting to see what happens over night.

I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.

Offline kinmel

  • Netter Nutter
  • ********
  • Posts: 4701
  • Karma: 491
Re: Channel Stability
« Reply #24 on: Jun 10, 2010, 20:10:33 »
@kinmel, What other channels are in use nearby ?


I am not sure about 2 of them, one is in Southampton, another in Liverpool.   The other 2 are in adjoining houses in my road and can see channel 4 and channel 9 elsewhere.
Alan  ‹(•¿•)›

What is the date of the referendum for England to become an independent country ?


Show unread posts since last visit.
 

Any information and links published in the forum are posted in good faith, but the forum staff and
owners cannot and do not accept responsibility for the content and accuracy of external websites.