IDNetters Forums

Has anyone else had throughput go downhill since last night? Web pages taking ages to load or just seem to stall. I'll do a speed test and it'll come back with very different results every time all way below what I should be getting. Doing a ping test sometimes shows packet loss but pings mostly OK.

This is the last speed test i done, previous ones have been lower and higher but only up to 2Mbps
Speed Test Results
Date 19/08/08 17:46:03
Speed Down 1039.43 Kbps ( 1 Mbps )
Speed Up 377.72 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port 8095
Server speedtest2.adslguide.org.uk

This is what my router says I'm synced at.
Upstream Speed: 448 kbps
Downstream Speed:  6304 kbps


BT speed test comes back with ERROR every time I've tried it today. Looks like its too busy.

No problems here. Have you checked your exchange to see if it's congested?

http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/

We have had the same problem for the last few days.  Pages are slow to load and sometimes just end with a blank page. 

Funny enough it seems to be more of a problem when we use IE rather than firefox.

We are on a fixed 1meg line and have done speed tests and the speed does not seem to be the problem.

Does it vary at different times of day, Christine?

Showing as green Rik. I did have my line fixed a few weeks ago because of noise caused by too much voltage but there is no noise on the line at the moment. While he was here he offered to give me a proper NTE5 master socket and adsl faceplate. He knew my brother :). Since then my connection has been great until last night. Firefox seems slower to me I use IEPro.

Any variation by time? I know that there's a lot of bandwidth being taken up by the iPlayer and the Olympics just now.

late last night 11pm, early this morning 6am and sort of all afternoon. it seems intermittent at the moment. Like one web page will load OK then one will hang.

It's not a DNS problem, is it? Are you seeing any messages on the status bar?

I too have had  throughput issues which I noticed around 10pm last night, I have just done a speed test at bt speedtest and got the following results

Down 8128
Up     832
IP Profile 6500
IP Throughput  2428

My router is not showing any restarts or drops....

im on .gw5

Quote from: juiceuk on Aug 19, 2008, 18:00:07
Has anyone else had throughput go downhill since last night? Web pages taking ages to load or just seem to stall. I'll do a speed test and it'll come back with very different results every time all way below what I should be getting. Doing a ping test sometimes shows packet loss but pings mostly OK.

This is the last speed test i done, previous ones have been lower and higher but only up to 2Mbps
Speed Test Results
Date 19/08/08 17:46:03
Speed Down 1039.43 Kbps ( 1 Mbps )
Speed Up 377.72 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port 8095
Server speedtest2.adslguide.org.uk

This is what my router says I'm synced at.
Upstream Speed: 448 kbps
Downstream Speed:  6304 kbps


BT speed test comes back with ERROR every time I've tried it today. Looks like its too busy.

I'm using Open DNS the moment Rik. I could try and change it back to IDnet. Status just says "waiting for" or "transferring". I am also on GW5.

I've been having the same issue too, not tried Firefox, only IE7. The problem seems to happen anytime of day that I had the laptop on, 05.30 - 06.30 and 16.00 23.00. One site that I had a lot of problems with yesterday was www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter with numerous blank pages, but after 2 or 3 refreshes the page would display correctly.

I have just tried the link above with FF no problems loads in seconds. Which pipe / gateway is everyone one perhaps its linked to this. I am on dsl4.

It looks like a mixture of DSL4 and GW5 to me, Rich.

It loads fine for me at the moment too, but it is one site that I remember causing a lot of problems last night. I'm on dsl4 too.

I must be lucky I have not had problems last night or any other time recently. A very recent speed test. HERE (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results/id/12191677441361302336.html)

With a mixture of FF3 and IE7.

I also tried the link it loads quick for me when i tried it, thats whats annoying though one second a page will load quick next it stalls or hangs until you refresh a few times. I'm on GW5. Logging in to MSN Messenger and hotmail have also been a right pain.

I think this is related to http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=9837.0 my web browsing has been general sluggish since yesterday with microsoft sites generally inaccessible

Quote from: juiceuk on Aug 19, 2008, 18:34:22
I'm using Open DNS the moment Rik. I could try and change it back to IDnet. Status just says "waiting for" or "transferring". I am also on GW5.

Sorry, missed this. It would be worth trying the IDNet servers, I generally find them faster. If you change them in Windows, you won't need to re-boot the router.

Here are the results of a couple of tests on my poor line http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results/id/12191684384833952551.html

&

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
   Your DSL connection rate: 2112 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
   IP profile for your line is - 1750 kbps
   Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1623 kbps

Don't know about the rest but my browsing has got a lot quicker and more consistent. Speed still lower than it should be though but getting better.

Speed Test Results
Date 19/08/08 18:58:12
Speed Down 2807.99 Kbps ( 2.7 Mbps )
Speed Up 378.06 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port 8095
Server speedtest2.adslguide.org.uk

I'm seeing normal speeds for my line, which is never fast, so perhaps I'm shielded from any problems...

Pages loading as they should here too ........ DSL4

Mo
:)

Finally managed a BT test and got this. I guess something has started to sort itself out.

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 6304 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 5000 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4076 kbps

That's looking reasonable but not optimal. Keep an eye on things, I'll ask around tomorrow.

Quote from: juiceuk on Aug 19, 2008, 18:00:07
Has anyone else had throughput go downhill since last night?

Yes, same here. One line which is usually rock solid, has dropped to a throughput average of below 1mbps, even though the sync is still 8128 with a 7150 profile.

Another, on a different exchange, is constantly resyncing at varying levels, but even when it's synced it is taking sometimes 20 minutes to connect to IDNet.

Spoke to support to ask whether there was a service issue with IDNet, but they have not seen any problems.

Both the above lines are with IDNet, but on different exchanges.

Quote from: Dopamine on Aug 19, 2008, 19:50:03
Yes, same here. One line which is usually rock solid, has dropped to a throughput average of below 1mbps, even though the sync is still 8128 with a 7150 profile.

Another, on a different exchange, is constantly resyncing at varying levels, but even when it's synced it is taking sometimes 20 minutes to connect to IDNet.

Spoke to support to ask whether there was a service issue with IDNet, but they have not seen any problems.

Both the above lines are with IDNet, but on different exchanges.

Definitely agree something wrong somewhere I have no access to microsoft sites, browsing is slow, downloads speeds have halved in the last 24hours.

Getting the same thing here, No microsoft - poor throughput.

I'm not really that fussed as I can still get onto my games just fine ;D (Eve-Online), my poor little sister can't live without her Bebo though (apparently thats working but taking minutes to load each page).

Experiencing slow speeds at the moment, unable to sign into Windows Messenger, Xbox.com and presumably Xbox Live is down also.

Link to my speedtest (http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=1219177947&v=4876231), very poor.

Quote from: vitriol on Aug 19, 2008, 20:24:45
Experiencing slow speeds at the moment, unable to sign into Windows Messenger, Xbox.com and presumably Xbox Live is down also.

Link to my speedtest (http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=1219177947&v=4876231), very poor.

Very similar results to mine. normally at least twice as fast as this time of the evening

Hi

downloads less than 1meg here at the moment :thumbd:

My speed is rubbish too  :o

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 7616 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2055 kbps

Same issue here, everything sluggish, the think broadband speed test showed my download speed at 1.4mb.

Router still showing 6175 down 736 up.

I'm on gw5

Very boring :-(

Just joined and my speed is pants.  The kids are struggling with WLM.  Not happy. :(

The Internet light on my Linksys router also spasmodically goes out.

As the title suggests this problem started yesterday and it is apparent from forum members that many are now affected..It would nice perhaps to have seen a service announcement or am I asking  too much too soon.

speed has dropped to under 1 meg, something is definately wrong, I'm sure the girls and boys at IDNet are working on it though, lets give them a little time.

Router

8128 /448
Profile 7150

I'm on gw5


Lets hope it's fixed soon.

Speed now less than 500k so time for early night me thinks ;) :whistle: :whistle:

Quote from: Rik on Aug 19, 2008, 18:08:29
Does it vary at different times of day, Christine?

Rik

It happens any time of the day. Sometimes the page will load ok and then on other occasions it just hangs and doesn't come down at all.

It appears to happen on most sites I go to but as i don't use MSN or Bebo I can't comment on them.  ;)

Started to notice this at the weekend.   

The Live Messenger thing startedlast night and appears to have gotten worse. I cannot now access any microsoft websites, such as Technet (which is a real problem id your a tech support for windows servers)

To be honest, these things happen, but what is really poor show is that there is no mention of the fault on IDNet's status pages. You can always judge a company by how they react to a problem, and the complete lack of any info on this is really poor show. :mad:

My two-pennorth:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 7616 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2296 kbps

Pretty appalling compared to my normal speed.  Annoying as well as she who thinks she must be obeyed wants me to download a couple of things on iPlayer, and its taking forever!  >:(

GW5 here.

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  832 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3724 kbps

Same problems (I came here to see if others were having this problem, or if World of Warcraft was to blame (I logged out before doing the speedtest). There's no exchange contention- I get full speeds at this time of night normally. My flatmate was the one who told me msn messenger wasn't working (I hadn't noticed I wasn't logged in because I was in World of Warcraft).

Ye i been having same problem mircosoft sites wont load cant even do windows update nor can i use my msn it aint worked for 2 days pings suck and a sh*t load of packetloss seems service is going down hill here am really thinking of leaving i pay 35 quid a month and pings and packetloss has been really bad for a while now,and ive also got them to check and there say there nothing wrong with my connection at there end and the exchange is on green and i know it aint my end as i even went as far as to buy new router cables and filters and its still the same.Something needs to be done or change or am off id rather pay less and get a cr*p connection than suffer this.

Quote from: XR219 on Aug 19, 2008, 21:33:14
To be honest, these things happen, but what is really poor show is that there is no mention of the fault on IDNet's status pages. You can always judge a company by how they react to a problem, and the complete lack of any info on this is really poor show. :mad:

I agree. I've just checked the Network Status page, and all it shows it that there is a "Sub-Optimal Service" (whatever that may be ???) due to BT performing work on the morning of the 14th of August!!

Come on IDNet. At the very least, keep your web pages up to date. Today's the 19th, and you're still showing messages that are 5 days out of date.

IDNet's disastrous customer relations over their recent email failures caused me to move to another email provider, so now, with a one month contract, it'll be easy for me to move elsewhere. Failures and problems are an inevitable part of the internet, and ones which I'll live with happily just so long as my ISP makes a small effort to post service announcements, but in my view IDNet perform poorly in this area.

It is unfortunately. I am also having the same problems with Messenger / Hotmail. Route through a proxy and get through fine. I am very disappointed IDNet haven't acknowledged the problem as it has been happening for several hours now.

The issue is definitely network/peering related.

M:\>tracert hotmail.com

Tracing route to hotmail.com [64.4.32.7]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     3 ms     2 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    26 ms    54 ms    26 ms  telehouse-gw2-lo1.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
  3    30 ms    25 ms    25 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

  4    26 ms    26 ms    25 ms  redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
  5     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7     *

I really should have looked here before joining up as there seems to be a significan't number of issues. Strange that over on www.thinkbroadband.com they are the best scoring ISP.... even ousting Zen from the number one spot which they held for 7 years! I have used zen before, and although expensive, I have to say they seem a much more professional outfit. Now contemplating moving back. With all the issues in these forums, I'm very surprised at how IDnet manage to get the scores they do at Thinkbroadband. ummm.  :(

As I said before, best to judge a company by how they handle an issue, not when everything is running smoothly, and I am disappointed.

IDNet generally are an excellent company. They didn't handle the email issue well and they aren't handling this at all from a customer perspective.

Most of the "problems" mentioned on the forums are user error or the common broadband issues which everyone has i.e. dropping connection etc.

The 2 times I've called IDNet support they've answered quickly and knew what they were talking about. Their service does rank very highly. Hopefully someone will realise that communication regarding a problem is very important.

Fair comment Ducky, but I'm a network architect and I know my way about networks (although not explicitly broadband) so asside from this current problem I can say with some confidence that my other issues aren't user error.

I'd love to compare my very average experience with others of different service providers who are on the same exchange. This way I would easily be able to identify if my issues are exchange related or specific to idnet. Maybe one of these days.

Fingers crossed for all of us that they fix the problem and fix their communication plan (or lack of it)

MCSE/CCNA here :-). The only real difference with broadband is you have to consider how you're connecting to the network - i.e. local exchange and BT's backbone.

I'd love to know what sort of technologies IDNet deploys on their network for redundancy. I've got a feeling this current issue is due to 1 faulty router with no failover tho.

What other issues have you had? I've seen intermittent packet loss and high than expect latency infrequently but no more than Zen/BT Business/UKOnline, all of which I use often.

problems all seem to be arround disconnects, usually when streaming media i.e. iplayer etc. On Belkin, Dlink and Zyxel this would cause the router to restart. All of the routers were tested with BT and Vodafone ADSL lines without issue. I even had a batch of the zyxels (we buy hundreds of them for work) sent back for testing, but no fault found (and a very detailed test report - well done Zyxel) My linksys (cisco) router handles it better, but still not without restarts periodicly. I'm pretty sure IDnet are using BT's DSLAM's rather than some other Local loop Inbundled brigade, hence why it would be interesting to see if other ISP's using the same DSLAM's were having the same problem. No point in changing ISP if its a common exchange issue lol. Anyway, past my bed time and I've a euro wide MPLS to design in the morning... joy of joy!  :D

Hope we get this cleared up tomorrow. All the best.

IDNet use BT's DSLAMs but there are likely to be multiple DSLAMs in your exchange. There are some routers which have issues with some DSLAM models/manufacturers but you've tried a few. Does the router actually restart or does it simply lose sync? Seems odd for it to reboot..... If it is, perhaps an issue with overheating? What are the line stats like?

Have fun tomorrow, sounds thrilling! My day will be some nice simple update applying to sharepoint and exchange :-D.

I don't profess to know what much of the conversation above means, but the router rebooting bit made my ears prick up.

Since today's speed problems started, the router on one of my lines has been rebooting most times it loses sync, which it has never done before. Usually it just resyncs without anything else happening. It seems too much of a coincidence for this to be a failure of the router. Any ideas?

Router is a Netgear DG834PN.

Sorry guys, I'm not technically adept enough to give any advice on this, other than to say that as far as we are aware, IDNet are working on the Microsoft sites problem, which may in turn, rectify things in general.  I will notify them of this thread, and hopefully they will make a statement in the morning.

Mine seems to be better now, with websites loading properly, Microsoft sites (and MSN Messenger) working, and a more normal speed:

Results Image not loaded Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  832 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6624 kbps

Aye, back to normal at my end too :thumb:.

See the announcement regarding congestion here. (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=9842.msg220449#msg220449)

Hopefully, the problems will be gone in a few days.

Hopefully, so will the Olympics!  ;D

Indeed. :)

Quote from: Simon on Aug 20, 2008, 10:50:36
Hopefully, so will the Olympics!  ;D

Agreed..  :thumb:

Quote from: Rik on Aug 20, 2008, 08:59:02
See the announcement regarding congestion here. (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=9842.msg220449#msg220449)

Hopefully, the problems will be gone in a few days.

Thanks for this Rik having a few niggles but thought it was my end...........I hate the Olympics....not because it is having an effect on my speed.....I just hate the Olympics  ;D

You are not alone, David.  :)

Thats spooky,better tell Den.................everyone has gone out and Im not alone  :eek4: :eek4:

You're never alone with an IDNetter. :)

Or a Strand  ;)

I remember it well. Though why anyone would want to be with a high water mark always puzzled me. ;D

Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 20, 2008, 11:21:49
Or a Strand  ;)

Showing your age David..  ;D

No just old stock  ;D ;D

Quote from: Rik on Aug 20, 2008, 08:59:02
See the announcement regarding congestion here. (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=9842.msg220449#msg220449)

Hopefully, the problems will be gone in a few days.

Hi Rik, and thanks for this. I'm still baffled as to why the MS sites were blocked though? Any word on why this happened? It appeared that routing was in place (i.e. they were reachable) unless you were using HTTP. Call in morbid curiosity, but would be nice to know why, if you can share that info with us.

Cheers

Quote from: Dopamine on Aug 20, 2008, 00:57:26
I don't profess to know what much of the conversation above means, but the router rebooting bit made my ears prick up.

Since today's speed problems started, the router on one of my lines has been rebooting most times it loses sync, which it has never done before. Usually it just resyncs without anything else happening. It seems too much of a coincidence for this to be a failure of the router. Any ideas?

Router is a Netgear DG834PN.

OT

Hi Mate, i never really got to the bottom of it, and as i said, the Linksys router has made one hell of a difference. I've seen this before (years ago) on ethernet networks where switch ports were set to auto negociate speed / duplex (i.e. 10/100 Full/Half) There was no standard RFC for this hand shake and sometimes certain network cards would just restart because the couldn't negociate the speed with the switch.
One thing that definately made a difference is make sure your router is set to DHCP, even though you have a static address. This is because almost all ISP who provide static addresses are actually not providing statics, its a type of DHCP reservation, meaning that they know everytime your device connects, to allocate you the same address. Worth a go.  :)

Quote from: XR219 on Aug 20, 2008, 12:05:43
Hi Rik, and thanks for this. I'm still baffled as to why the MS sites were blocked though? Any word on why this happened? It appeared that routing was in place (i.e. they were reachable) unless you were using HTTP. Call in morbid curiosity, but would be nice to know why, if you can share that info with us.

The initial information I had suggested a routing problem. By this morning, though, I was told the problem lay with MS servers being flaky, worsened by the Olympic effect. TBH, I'm not sure what the actual cause was as I have heard of similar issues with VM customers, but not ISPs like Zen. :(

Quote from: Rik on Aug 20, 2008, 12:15:03
The initial information I had suggested a routing problem. By this morning, though, I was told the problem lay with MS servers being flaky, worsened by the Olympic effect. TBH, I'm not sure what the actual cause was as I have heard of similar issues with VM customers, but not ISPs like Zen. :(

Cheers Rik... guess we'll just wait and see.  :)

Quote from: Rik on Aug 20, 2008, 12:15:03
The initial information I had suggested a routing problem. By this morning, though, I was told the problem lay with MS servers being flaky, worsened by the Olympic effect. TBH, I'm not sure what the actual cause was as I have heard of similar issues with VM customers, but not ISPs like Zen. :(

Running on O2/Be Rick i had no issue with Microsoft or msn sites or Live messenger yesterday, so if it was flaky MS servers did it only affect IDNet and MS?

If it was MS servers, surely everyone would be affected.

Quote from: wrtpeeps on Aug 20, 2008, 12:22:03
If it was MS servers, surely everyone would be affected.

I suppose it depends how its all routed, but its a bit beyond me, Rik knows more about this sort of thing ???

No I don't. :) I can't understand why it would only affect some ISPs, the only halfway logical explanation I can come up with is that particular peering arrangements are suffering while others are not.

Quote from: Rik on Aug 20, 2008, 12:27:08
No I don't. :) I can't understand why it would only affect some ISPs, the only halfway logical explanation I can come up with is that particular peering arrangements are suffering while others are not.

Yes you do ;) you just typed Peering arrangements  :tongue:

 ;D

Them I understand... sort of.  :fingers:

Quote from: Rik on Aug 20, 2008, 12:47:37
;D

Them I understand... sort of.  :fingers:

;D ;D

Unfortunately what IDNet have said regarding MS servers is a pack of lies... There is just no way that was the issue when the trace route was falling out immediately after an IDNet router in redbus (one of them). My trace route is somewhere in this thread. There are at least 2-3 public hops before you hit a Microsoft datacentre.

This has disappointed me.

Same problems here - slow yesterday afternoon onwards - fine this morning.

Starting to go slower again now.

I'm also now seeing regular packet loss to several datacentres across the pond. For me that's a nightmare and I'm about to swap to my datacard.

I'm really annoyed that there hasn't been an official announcement regarding this from IDNet. To simply blame the Olympics is pathetic because that isn't the issue.

http://www.idnet.net/support/status.jsp - "Good Service" - yeah right...

I must say that IDNet's explanation sounds doubtful to me too, rather like the nonsense I used to get from Tiscali's helpline when I was with Pipex.

I only came to look at the forum yesterday when my speeds started slowing, and a lot of IDNet customers seem to be having the same speed issues. At the same time, I was able to speak to users from BT, BE, Pipex/Tiscali, and Eclipse. None of those users was seeing any change in speed at all.

The Olympics have been on since the 8th August. Why then is this thread titled "Started last night?".

I'm also just about to call support. Yesterday I was promised twice that I would be called back concerning problems with one of my lines. As yet, nothing. I'm not happy.

I thought it had been documented elsewhere that the Olympics is affecting other ISPs, not just IDNet, so there must be some relevance in that, surely?  It's not something they could reasonably have foreseen, as has been explained.  Can't comment on the MS thing, as I only know what we have been told.

The problems are back, getting 2meg down now instead of 7 earlier this morn

Quote from: Simon on Aug 20, 2008, 14:09:30
I thought it had been documented elsewhere that the Olympics is affecting other ISPs, not just IDNet, so there must be some relevance in that, surely?  It's not something they could reasonably have foreseen, as has been explained.  Can't comment on the MS thing, as I only know what we have been told.

Yes, the Olympics probably are affecting traffic, but suddenly as of yesterday? This isn't just a slight slowdown for me, it's speeds dropping from a consistent 6.5mbps to well below 200kbps at times, and it only started yesterday.

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/311423328.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)

Normal speed here for me.. give or take..

Similar at Namesco;

Download Speed: 6342 kbps (792.8 KB/sec )   Upload Speed: 380 kbps (47.5 KB/sec )

I've just checked again with IDNet. There was an issue with direct peering to MS sites which hit yesterday afternoon, and which was being worked on overnight. They have not seen signs of it so far today, and checking myself, I can get onto MS sites OK (though I don't use MSN). The more general congestion caused by the Olympics, though, has no quick fix, bandwidth usage has increased by 20% in the past few days, not only affecting IDNet but, I suspect, many BT exchanges.

So, just to clarify, Rik, the MS issue hit IDNet specifically, and has now been fixed, yes?  The Olympics issue is affecting BT networks, so not just IDNet, and this should clear once the Olympics have finished?  A case of sh*t happens?

If a 20% increase is traffic is causing packet loss (ONLY over the pond) then IDNet really aren't the ISP that I thought they were. Speed doesn't bother me at all. But packet loss does, especially when in the middle of an SSH session.

I hope they come out with another reason soon.

It certainly isn't a case of **** happens. If 20% increase is causing this much of a problem then IDNet are overselling their service a lot more than I expected. More so than Zen. It would seem to be a simple case of too little bandwidth.

Quote from: Simon on Aug 20, 2008, 14:27:41
So, just to clarify, Rik, the MS issue hit IDNet specifically, and has now been fixed, yes?  The Olympics issue is affecting BT networks, so not just IDNet, and this should clear once the Olympics have finished?  A case of **** happens?

Yes and yes. IDNet have direct peering with MS and that failed somewhere along the route. The bandwidth demand by users of iPlayer has been a learning curve for all ISPs, and should clear as the games end. A permanent solution, though, is more tricky, but will become easier when BT deliver on WBC.

Quote from: ducky22 on Aug 20, 2008, 14:29:33
I hope they come out with another reason soon.

I only know what I get told when I phone up to get information before posting, Ducky. If you don't find the answer acceptable, I can only suggest that you call yourself.

Quote from: Simon on Aug 20, 2008, 14:09:30
I thought it had been documented elsewhere that the Olympics is affecting other ISPs, not just IDNet

There are details here from Plusnets site of there iPlayer traffic.. I assume IDnet has similar graphs/usage.  Click Here (http://community.plus.net/blog/2008/08/19/online-olympic-coverage-more-and-more-turn-to-the-bbc-iplayer/)

I'm sure IDNet have something similar, Rich, though I don't have access to it.

I found the end of the piece particularly interesting:

"We are though starting to see a real change, as the Olympics have gone on the number of people watching has increased, the peak on the bandwidth has increased and the length of time has stretched.

What's probably happening is that people are telling their friends they've been watching the Olympics online while they are work and the great success of the British team is certainly helping people to enjoy the coverage.

Definitely, the usage is building as the games go on (possibly also because the sports now being shown have a wider appeal?).

In addition:

"It would also be interesting to know how many of the people watching online are first time users of iPlayer and whether they will continue to use it once the Olympics have finished and how peoples' ongoing behaviour will change."

covers a point I discussed with Tim earlier. Clearly, all ISPs will be monitoring this situation carefully.

Getting worse again now:

    Your DSL connection rate: 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  832 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3919 kbps

I can live with the slower speeds while the Olympics are on so I'm not complaining (yet), but if my World of Warcraft gets affected, I won't be happy.

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3957 kbps

Very similar to Danni perhaps its because of the Mens 200 m final on now.

That's a fair guess, Rich.

Hmmm

Im paying 34.99  a month for this..... not over impressed!

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  832 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2724 kbps

what is it Idnet say...

" With priority given at the exchange over standard ADSL traffic, Home SuperMax offers even faster speeds especially at peak times."

gezzz, stop the whinging, you know what the problem is.. if its out of IDnets hands then theres nothing they can do.. simple as that..

Blame BBC for the iPlayer if you want anyone to blame.

Wait a few days and it'll be back to normal..

And yes i have the problems aswell.
Microsoft issue seems to be sorted tonight.
xbox live, windows live messenger etc is working for me.

Quote from: Rik on Aug 20, 2008, 14:53:51
......Clearly, all ISPs will be monitoring this situation carefully.

There's an intersting post here (http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=zen&Number=3430238&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0) over on the Zen forum on TB.  Clearly the Olympics are resulting in usage spikes for Zen and I doubt it's any different for iDNet. 

The interesting thing is the fact that they see a spike related to a particular event, so it's quite possible that usage has increased later on in the games as interest gathered.  Channel 4 had something similar a few years ago when England looked like winning the Ashes.  No interest at first but then massively increased viewing figures.   

I'm not trying to defend iDNet since I don't use them - just trying to offer possible explanations.

Quote from: ducky22 on Aug 20, 2008, 13:54:45
http://www.idnet.net/support/status.jsp - "Good Service" - yeah right...

If you log in, it tells you different.
https://www.idnet.net/secure/account/status.jsp

Announcement
2008-08-20 07:42 - 2008-08-20 07:42
Sub-Optimal Service
Status: Partial Service
We have as seen a sharp increase in traffic across our network this week, due to the popularity of the Olympics online. This is not only affecting our network but also many exchanges, Internet transit links, and other ISPs that we peer with are also affected. As a result, many users are likely to experience slower speeds than usual, especially during peak hours

Roll on the weekend and these P@%y games are over with.....This is not Exclusive to IDnet....so there is nothing anyone can do......good link for the TB.

I think blaming the BBC is a brilliant plan........I like New Tricks though,c.mon its nearly over and we can get back to normal  :eek4: which in my case is not recommended  ;D ;D

Quote from: psp83 on Aug 20, 2008, 20:24:13
gezzz, stop the whinging, you know what the problem is..

Yep, lack of bandwidth. Some of that problem could be mitigated by ISPs having more, and that certainly is not out of the hands of IDNet.

Good to know that some people will happily put up with anything though, and view anyone else as whingers.

Quote from: Dopamine on Aug 20, 2008, 20:48:00
Yep, lack of bandwidth. Some of that problem could be mitigated by ISPs having more, and that certainly is not out of the hands of IDNet.

Good to know that some people will happily put up with anything though, and view anyone else as whingers.

LOL.

If its at the exchange level then f'all they can do. been through this with you before dopamine, dont you ever read?

oh and idnet, if you can see into the future. let me know what next weekends lottery numbers are please. You've got my number ;)

/ignore.

Quote from: psp83 on Aug 20, 2008, 20:53:27
LOL.

If its at the exchange level then f'all they can do. been through this with you before dopamine, dont you ever read?

oh and idnet, if you can see into the future. let me know what next weekends lottery numbers are please. You've got my number ;)

/ignore.

If it's at the exchange only, then you're right, but I very much doubt that it is only at the exchange. Sound business principles will always see businesses maximising income and minimising expenditure/investment. It's only when that balance tips too far and starts hurting customers that the complaints start.

By the way, you're not an IDNet staff stooge are you, paid to hype IDNet? BBC iPlayer has been in existence for a while, and unlike some it would seem, I've been aware of the Olympics for several years.

if its at exchange level... should I be seeing this on my work ADSL Max line too... its to the same building, line, master socket... ect??

Ouch!!! (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results/id/121926826558364425483.html)

Can't wait for the Olympics to finish......

Quote from: ippylad on Aug 20, 2008, 21:53:26
if its at exchange level... should I be seeing this on my work ADSL Max line too... its to the same building, line, master socket... ect??

The connection at my works has been seeing reduced speed. We are with BT business on the same exchange as my house.

Last week we had a stable 6.5mb connection, today we was getting around 1.2mb at times.

Quote from: Dopamine on Aug 20, 2008, 20:48:00

Good to know that some people will happily put up with anything though, and view anyone else as whingers.

I can honestly say that I have not seen any significant drop in speed, yes I had problems with Microsoft connections for about half a day, that is now sorted.

You are only on a 30 day contract, if you are that bothered, you are not forced to stay with IDNet.   Simple solution..  ::)

You are right..... when my BT broadband is faster than Idnet (which I pay more for).... time to move on!

Quote from: Inactive on Aug 20, 2008, 22:54:15
I can honestly say that I have not seen any significant drop in speed, yes I had problems with Microsoft connections for about half a day, that is now sorted.

You are only on a 30 day contract, if you are that bothered, you are not forced to stay with IDNet.   Simple solution..  ::)

Quote from: Inactive on Aug 20, 2008, 22:54:15
I can honestly say that I have not seen any significant drop in speed, yes I had problems with Microsoft connections for about half a day, that is now sorted.

You are only on a 30 day contract, if you are that bothered, you are not forced to stay with IDNet.   Simple solution..  ::)

If this solution is good In,can I try it as I have a sore eye and it needs some solution  ;D

Quote from: Dopamine on Aug 20, 2008, 21:50:09
If it's at the exchange only, then you're right, but I very much doubt that it is only at the exchange. Sound business principles will always see businesses maximising income and minimising expenditure/investment. It's only when that balance tips too far and starts hurting customers that the complaints start.

Indeed, and I can't profess to know how the ISP business works, but presumably bandwidth doesn't fall out of the sky on a big pink pumpkin.  It has to be paid for, and obviously, as you said, "Sound business principles will always see businesses maximising income and minimising expenditure/investment", and IDNet are no different, although they did invest in new servers after the recent email problems.  They didn't foresee the extra traffic as being a big issue, but neither did any number of other ISPs, and I am sure lessons will be learned.

Speed recorded at DSL Zone;

http://www.dslzoneuk.net/speedtest/speedtest.php?id=905106

;)

Quote from: Inactive on Aug 21, 2008, 00:38:46
Speed recorded at DSL Zone;

http://www.dslzoneuk.net/speedtest/speedtest.php?id=905106

;)

Ah yes, that proves it. One speedtest after midnight conclusivley shows there isn't a problem. ::).......


..... Just like our motorways, which are benefiting from over-investment and so are always free of traffic, as this typical picture clearly demonstrates.  ;)

(http://youwho.www.idnet.com/empty-m25.jpg)

Well, if you don't want to use the motorways, there are always the A and B roads.  ;)

Quote from: Simon on Aug 21, 2008, 01:04:39
Well, if you don't want to use the motorways, there are always the A and B roads.  ;)

lol. I'm a cyclist....

..... and I'm busy dusting off my quill pen as I type.

Who needs technology? :P

Quote from: Dopamine on Aug 21, 2008, 01:02:07
Ah yes, that proves it. One speedtest after midnight conclusivley shows there isn't a problem. ::).......

I did post other speed test results throughout the day time, you obviously chose to ignore them.. ::)

I am not here to defend IDNet, I am happy with their service, I will be staying, if you are not, you are not forced to stay.

;)

You know I said I'd not be happy if my World of Warcraft was affected? It was- had some crazy packet loss earlier (how much earlier I'm not sure, as I wasn't paying attention to the time).

Of course, everything is back to normal now it's the early hours of the morning. When do the Olympics finish again?

Just because not everyone is having an issue it doesn't mean Idnet do not have one! It can be down to the gateway, exchange or even end users equipment. And just because one ISP is having a games overload due to the iplayer it doesnt mean it is the same issue with Idnet

I think for those who do not have any issues or happy to live with the issue.. it is a bit unfair to say if you are not happy move to another ISP. By saying that you are neither helping resolve issues or helping Idnet. I know many people on here are loyal to Idnet but sometimes it seems more like a social network forum than a forum for people to post when the have issues or looking for advice.

For those who do have issues, I think we need to be factual when posting. Including dates, times speeds router stats.

Whilst I am not saying the games have not had an effect on internet use, I find it hard to grasp that this is the only factor for slow speeds and throughput. From my experience, I pay 34.99 which is supposed to give you priority at the exchange at peak times and well before the games started I clearly haven't been. My speeds still drops, hangs and have hops galore. Saying that support is great and friendly.

In short for those who say move if your not happy..... why not try and be a little helpful. Posting speedtest from thinkbroadband and speedtest.net are inconclusive as the only test BT and Idnet care about are the ones on Bt speedtest server.

I am sorry for the rant but I get hacked off with unhelpful people who post comments to people who are clearly having issues for what ever reason who have nothing better to do...

Quote from: Inactive on Aug 21, 2008, 01:15:19
I did post other speed test results throughout the day time, you obviously chose to ignore them.. ::)

I am not here to defend IDNet, I am happy with their service, I will be staying, if you are not, you are not forced to stay.

;)

The attitude of some here is somewhat disturbing.

IDNet sell on the point of being 'different' from the others and mainly 'better' than Zen.

That isn't the case at the moment and no, it isn't an exchange issue. Its a capacity issue with IDNet and I'm convinced something further...

My problem isn't with speed - couldn't give a toss if I download at 7mbit or 1mbit. My issue is with packet loss and latency which I was only seeing with traffic over the pond. Not with UK based sites meaning the iPlayer cr*p that was being fronted by IDNet was not the cause. I nipped next door and borrowed my neighbours wireless (Zen) and there was no similar issue. Incidently, not that I care, I was getting around 3mb/second on a full 8mbit line with BT speedtester while she was getting 6.5mbit. Same time, same exchange, different ISP. She is also on 50:1 while I'm on 20:1.

It looks like IDNet has oversold extensively recently. Open communication from them would be nice because something is wrong which is unusual for IDNet.

Having no reason to complain I have not posted on the forum for a long time, unfortunately I now need to join the debate on loss of speed.

I have been using thinkbroadband to record speed tests over the last week, my modem shows my connection is working fine and syncs at 7616Kbps unbroken for 196hrs. 7 days results on speed tests confirm morning AM at 6.5Mbs, an immediate drop at midday to under 2Mbs with speeds as low as 0.7Mbs recorded up to 2AM, this dramatic loss of speed for over twelve hours a day is not acceptable especially at a higher than average cost.

As I receive good results in the morning and low speed only in the afternoon and evening the blame may well be attached to school holidays or the Olympics, however my assumption is that the bandwidth to cope with all of the IdNet customers requiring to use the service in the afternoon/evening is unavailable and may well be due to over subscription. As this lack of speed issue is affecting users from across the country I also feel BT exchange congestion although a factor is not the problem.

The loss of mail servers last month does make me wonder if IdNet have taken their eye of the ball and are resting on their laurels, whilst I am not one to jump ship without good reason should this lack of speed continue I can see one or two other quality service ISP's gaining ground on IdNet quite rapidly.

Together with others on this forum I await the end of the Olympics to see if this is merely a blip or another mail server problem waiting in the wings.

Quote from: ducky22 on Aug 21, 2008, 02:02:13


My problem isn't with speed - couldn't give a toss if I download at 7mbit or 1mbit. My issue is with packet loss and latency which I was only seeing with traffic over the pond. Not with UK based sites meaning the iPlayer cr*p that was being fronted by IDNet was not the cause. I nipped next door and borrowed my neighbours wireless (Zen) and there was no similar issue. Incidently, not that I care, I was getting around 3mb/second on a full 8mbit line with BT speedtester while she was getting 6.5mbit. Same time, same exchange, different ISP. She is also on 50:1 while I'm on 20:1.

Interestingly the Zen forum on TB comments on spikes of increased activity not the consistent and persistent drop in performance we are seeing as the day wears on. I have had essentially the same broadband experience this week as I had with Tiscali/Pipex and I find that disturbing.

Is everyone who is having an issue on .GW5?

I'm not with IDNet anymore, but always found them open and transparent in their communication, I am with O2/Be and have had no loss of throughput or connection issues with Microsoft. Obviously though people are having issues, now in house fighting is not going to help them, and "fanboy" sentimentality does not help, although we all do it at times so should not throw stones in glass houses.

IF IDNet has an issue with bandwidth and the Olympics have affected it (iPlayer use) then they need to obviously invest in more, the issue being as a small ISP they cannot compete with a large one, because they simply do not have the money to physically get the bandwidth needed, here is the catch 22, you pay for great service fast DNS resolving, and for myself great Domain name mail, but they will never have the bandwidth capabilities of the larger players who can absorb hits like the Olympics in a tidier fashion so that's when the great service at a higher price takes a hit possibly, if that is indeed the cause. Since this is primarily a help forum, with a social background maybe pointing fingers and adopting a defensive stance when you don't really know the true causes is not advisable, but trying to collect data and provide help and statistics to pass to IDNet would be more constructive. As I said I'm not truly with IDNet but still use some of their services which are excellent, but people have to balance out what they want from an ISP and IDnet if they were/are having bandwidth issues will have to address this as far as they can, which may not be as much as some would like.

It would be good to see the flaming stop and some serious data gathering take place and for members to remember that this forum is a great place because of cooperation, not play ground semantics over who is right and wrong, because no one truly knows.

Quote from: ippylad on Aug 21, 2008, 01:58:42


In short for those who say move if your not happy..... why not try and be a little helpful. Posting speedtest from thinkbroadband and speedtest.net are inconclusive as the only test BT and Idnet care about are the ones on Bt speedtest server.

I am sorry for the rant but I get hacked off with unhelpful people who post comments to people who are clearly having issues for what ever reason who have nothing better to do...

This thread has covered every conceivable angle on the subject, it is 5 pages long, clearly if your concerns havn't been, or cannot be answered, either contact support or take the option that I suggested, nobody has a magic wand here.

IDNet state that it is caused by congestion due the Olympics, that is, as far as I am aware the only information that anybody has on here, other than the Microsoft issue, since resolved.

I only posted my stats to confirm that my line has not suffered any significant speed reductions, I thought that was being helpful, obviously not for some people.

Plus, bandwidth takes time to get from BT, look at last time. BT Delayed them, Even if IDnet ordered more bandwidth it wouldn't mean it would be active in time.

No one (other isps) saw this problem coming. its impossible to know something like this is going to happen. 20% increase doesn't seem much but it is. I work with servers and see this problem sometimes myself.

A website we did, went on skynews. this caused an increase of 18%. The server went to a crawl.

All i can say is, IDnet will be ready and waiting next time for an event like this.

And all i can say to people with problems. including me. wait until the games are over with as stated and if your problem doesn't go away, contact IDnet and push for a fix.

Its helpful to give stats, to work out if its a gateway issue ect... its not helpful to say to people .... if you have an issue and not happy... you dont have to stay with idnet.

Quote from: Inactive on Aug 21, 2008, 08:58:23
This thread has covered every conceivable angle on the subject, it is 5 pages long, clearly if your concerns havn't been, or cannot be answered, either contact support or take the option that I suggested, nobody has a magic wand here.

IDNet state that it is caused by congestion due the Olympics, that is, as far as I am aware the only information that anybody has on here, other than the Microsoft issue, since resolved.

I only posted my stats to confirm that my line has not suffered any significant speed reductions, I thought that was being helpful, obviously not for some people.

Quote from: ippylad on Aug 21, 2008, 09:06:23
Its helpful to give stats, to work out if its a gateway issue ect... its not helpful to say to people .... if you have an issue and not happy... you dont have to stay with idnet.

Sorry if that offended you, I was only stating what I would do if I was not happy with a service, as it happens I am happy with the service provided by IDNet, it isn't 100% perfect at all times, but on balance, over a long period they have proven to be a good solid provider of BB to me.

Quote from: ippylad on Aug 21, 2008, 09:06:23
Its helpful to give stats, to work out if its a gateway issue ect... its not helpful to say to people .... if you have an issue and not happy... you dont have to stay with idnet.

This is not helping anyone and getting into an argument ippylad (which I am very good at myself so don't take offence) is not helping, if you have something to say to In, PM him, but as far as resolving the issue you will have to wait for the end of the Olympics, this constant arguing over who said what is pointless really, and making a already huge thread longer for no real reason, as In did point out. I know you feel frustrated, I am sure other users in your boat feel the same but this topic is just going in circles and getting nowhere  :) best leave it, and wait to see what happens next with your line.

And just think... It could be worse. You could be with Tiscali  >:D

These problems are no where near the problems i got when i was with Tiscali. So i'm happy to put up with a problem if its not a long term problem.

Nothing can be as bad as Tiscali

I'm on .dsl4 btw.

Quote from: psp83 on Aug 21, 2008, 09:26:34
And just think... It could be worse. You could be with Tiscali  >:D

These problems are no where near the problems i got when i was with Tiscali. So i'm happy to put up with a problem if its not a long term problem.

Nothing can be as bad as Tiscali

I'm on .dsl4 btw.

Or with Orange ;)

Here's what I know about the problem.

1) BT have delayed the supply of IDNet's WBC connection, so the extra bandwidth that should have been available now is not (it was due to be delivered in 65 days, but will take about six months instead).

2) As has been said, any business looks to balance its costs against its income. Until now, IDNet have managed the balancing act pretty well and congestion has not been an issue.

3) The Olympics seem to have put the iPlayer firmly on the map, and as the games have gone on, demand has gone up significantly. IDNet are not the only ISP to be affected by this.

Could they have foreseen it? I don't know. Could they have prevented the problem? Yes. However, to do so would have meant having extra capacity which costs money, that extra cost would have to be passed on. The problem is that if the demand is a once in four years event, most customers won't want to pay the extra cost and the alternative is a failed business.

I should imagine that all ISPs will be reviewing the situation after the games. For example, will a lot more people have been introduced to iPlayer as a result, and continue to use it? That will help to make sensible future plans. One solution, and this is just a personal opinion, would be to make access to the iPlayer (and others) an additional subscription. That way, the extra costs would be borne by those who want to use the service.

When BT delivers on WBC, life will be a bit simpler, as ISPs will be able to 'turn on' extra capacity for short periods, whereas with IPStream they have the significant costs of adding a new central - and a lead time of three months or so to do it. Clearly, having a spare central idling for four years is not sustainable.

I don't think this is an issue which can be resolved in the forum. By all means discuss it, but we cannot come up with any solutions as we can for, say, a line losing sync. Each customer will have to make their own decision as to whether to stay with IDNet based on their own needs. Like In, I've not noticed a significant impact, beyond ping times to the BBC. It's certainly not an issue we should be falling out over, we're all customers, none of us has any say in the running of IDNet beyond whether we remain customers. To be honest, therefore, the only advice anyone can give in this situation is if you're not happy with the service, move to another ISP. That's not to dismiss anyone's complaint, it's just the only possible solution.

Thanks Rik.  :thumb:

 :bow:

 :thnks: Rik, good post.  :thumb:

I think all iPlayer (and other) users should pay extra for that privilege because of the impact on general users. Why should BBC and others get away with offloading their transmission costs (via internet) onto the isp's?  Supposing I set up a telephone system that people could access for news would BT be happy about paying for people to use that system?  That seems to be a parallel to me. :rant2:

Why?

ISPs sell a product with bandwidth limits. If an ISP can't cope with the allowances it set then it a) needs to increase prices b) decrease allowances or c) sack their management team.

The issue here is not the iPlayer!!! Dear lord... Why does anyone think it is acceptable to run a network where a 20% increase in traffic will have such a huge effect on performance? Actually, don't answer that unless you have experience deploying networks.

IDNet have obviously oversold hugely recently, much more so than they did in the past.

The issue isn't necessarily on the BT side of the network. Most ISPs also buy bandwidth elsewhere and peer directly with the likes of LINX. The issues I saw indicate a saturated peering point and not an issue with BT. From experience, upgrading a peering point is fairly quick - a few days at most.

What would be ideal is if IDNet release some MRTG graphs from across their network.

Up until now I've found them to be a faultless ISP. There is an issue here, something more than just "oh its all because of the olympics" spool we've been receiving.

QuoteIDNet have obviously oversold hugely recently

Do you have any proof of this?  Do you have any inside information or is it just conjecture on your part and trying to pass it off as fact?  This is so often the cause of arguments and rows.  Without proof then it is best to preface your argument with I think or I believe and not state it as an incontrovertible fact without the necessary proof.

I can answer and I do not have experience with deployoing networks, that is a red herring.  Where did you get your figure of 20%?  How do you know that this is the correct figure, it could be 80 or 90%.

It could very well be the Olympics problem, unless you beleive that Tim and co. are lying or trying to mislead its customers, not the people or company I have known or conversed with over the past three years or so.

As far as peering points go Idnet have quite a few, it is on their website.

I am and always will be an ardent supporter of Idnet they provide an excellent service and besides a few recent glitches (which were sorted with an honest answer) They as any other Isp cannot respond to such a massive increase in a saturated network.  Don't forget Childrens holidays as well as the Olympic fans. ;D

No company release information that could be of benefit to other competitors at its own expense.

It is fairly obvious, to someone with experience, that the issue is capacity based. High latency and slight packet loss have been going on since before "the olympics" came along. I'm not the only one who's seen it.

It is unfortunate you decided not to read the thread before butting in. 20% is a figure Rik was given from IDNet. If a 20% increase in traffic is causing such drastic slow downs then unquestionable, IDNet have been overselling more than they used to.

It is irrelevant how many peering points they have. Some are becoming saturated/experiencing very high traffic sometimes.

I do believe IDNet are not telling the full truth and being transparent. The Olympics is simply a pathetic excuse.

cavillas... Releasing MRTG graphs is standard practise for professional network providers. You may wish to read up on what they are - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRTG.

If you do not like Idnet though why stay?  There is only the truth or not the truth, there cannot be only part of the truth if you are being honest any more than someone can be slightly pregnant.  And you are still bragging that you have all this knowledge and experience other than that you are quite a nice person. :blush: :kiss:

Time for  :food:

I'm not bragging I'm simply saying I understand it, you clearly don't. That's not a personally attack on you, its simply the plain and simple truth.

I never once said I didn't like IDNet. Quite the opposite actually. If I didn't, I wouldn't be wasting my time - I'd move to another provider in an instant. I've been exceptionally happy with them up until recently. I want them to fix the problems and be the ISP they were. Unfortunately they're starting to go the way Plusnet did 3 years ago.

IDNet aren't giving the whole story. That is the truth.

I don't think it's a pathetic excuse, Ducky. I'd take a bet that no ISP actually has capacity for all of its customers to max their connections simultaneously. It can be done, of course, but the service would cost a lot more as a result. It seems to me that what has happened here is that peak demand has increased in an unprecedented way, and that has not been foreseen by a number of ISPs. The situation has not been helped by BT slippage in delivering IDNet's WBC connection, and in their exchange programme. It's also not helped by the fact that IDNet do not shape or throttle traffic directly, nor do they cut off users if they reach their package ceiling. Of course, until now, that has all been a positive.

Overall, IDNet have delivered for the 22 months I've been with them, and I'm not personally being affected by the current problems. Others obviously feel the same as I do, and a second group feel as you do. There's no point in any of us having a go at each other, we are neither responsible for the situation, nor can we do anything to change it. Unfortunately, there is only one immediate remedy for those who want it, and that is to migrate, as I've mentioned earlier.

Hopefully, by 2012 (or sooner), the bandwidth model will be completely changed by WBC, and ISPs will be better placed to respond to surges in demand.

As to what is the truth, or the whole truth, none of us is placed to know what that is. We either trust or we don't.

Ducky, if you're so convinced IDNet are not telling the whole truth, why don't you ring them, and ask them directly? 

if its capacity at idnet's end wouldn't this cause the same problem for everyone using idnet?

Since some members are not seeing this problem does this point to exchange congestion or somewhere between exchange-> bt-> idnet?  ???

Quote from: cavillas on Aug 21, 2008, 15:20:41
If you do not like Idnet though why stay?  There is only the truth or not the truth, there cannot be only part of the truth if you are being honest any more than someone can be slightly pregnant.  And you are still bragging that you have all this knowledge and experience other than that you are quite a nice person. :blush: :kiss:

Time for  :food:

Is it me or is it warm around here guys......... ;) ;D

Quote from: psp83 on Aug 21, 2008, 15:59:30
if its capacity at idnet's end wouldn't this cause the same problem for everyone using idnet?

Since some members are not seeing this problem does this point to exchange congestion or somewhere between exchange-> bt-> idnet?  ???

I suspect it's a combination of things, Paul.

Quote from: Rik on Aug 21, 2008, 16:02:54
I suspect it's a combination of things, Paul.

I do aswell.. as the people that hasn't really noticed it have shown about 1mb or less of there normal speeds.

Others have shown upto 80% reduced speed. So this leads me to more local congestion than anything else.

I've certainly suspected that I'm not seeing it because my line is low-speed anyway. OTOH, In's at practically full speed, but in a relatively lightly used exchange. There do appear to be a number of factors, starting with the BT infrastructure, but I'm confident that IDNet will look at what has happened and learn from it, as they did when the mail server failed.

Look, we can go round and round in circles until the cow's come home, it is apparent to me that nothing in the short term can be done about, it is affecting other ISP's, so not exclusive to IDNet, so in my opinion it is futile to continue to rant on about.

All I can say with honesty, other than the Microsoft blip, it has not had an adverse effect on my connection.

I have suggested the options before, and got shot down in flames for it, but realistically, as I see things, there are only 2 options, live with it, or leave.

I await the  :flamethrower: ;)

:out: :duck: :duck:

Quote from: Rik on Aug 21, 2008, 16:17:11
I've certainly suspected that I'm not seeing it because my line is low-speed anyway. OTOH, In's at practically full speed, but in a relatively lightly used exchange. There do appear to be a number of factors, starting with the BT infrastructure, but I'm confident that IDNet will look at what has happened and learn from it, as they did when the mail server failed.

Agree with you, Rik,  I am in a similar situation to In, I've not noticed any particular drop in speed but I am also on a rural exchange with only just over 1600 subscribers the majority of which are residential.

Quote from: Inactive on Aug 21, 2008, 16:20:22
I have suggested the options before, and got shot down in flames for it, but realistically, as I see things, there are only 2 options, live with it, or leave.

You're right, In. As a short term solution those are the only options. For the long term, we have to wait for BT to give IDNet the capacity they've ordered and for IDNet to make their own decisions about packages and pricing.

If anyone has a specific point they want to discuss, they do need to contact IDNet. As users, we can't tell them more than has already been said in this thread.

Quote from: Sheltieuk on Aug 21, 2008, 16:25:07
Agree with you, Rik,  I am in a similar situation to In, I've not noticed any particular drop in speed but I am also on a rural exchange with only just over 1600 subscribers the majority of which are residential.

I suspect there is more than a small clue in that, Ray. I'm not saying IDNet haven't also got a problem, we know they have as they've told us so. But it's not simply resolved if the BT infrastructure is struggling.

IAC, hopefully, the problem will disappear after Sunday, though as I've said before, I'm sure there will be a post mortem and lessons will be learnt.

I wonder if it is due to the work that BT carried out on the 14th, the work on the 28th may rectify the problem.

Quote from: Glenn on Aug 21, 2008, 16:49:10
I wonder if it is due to the work that BT carried out on the 14th, the work on the 28th may rectify the problem.

:rofl: :rofl: Nice one Glenn.  ;)

It's a long shot but you never know.

This is very true when it comes to BT work. I'm not convinced they resolved the problem on the 14th as no-one lost session, which should have been the case.

Nearly a year of sub 25ms pings, Faster speeds than previous ISP's and more reliable connection. I don't mind a hiccup every now and again after all that good service. I only started this thread to find out if it  was my line playing up again. I was on Tiscali getting told to clear my cookies or have you turned on your modem? to cure 300ms pings!! Namesco's constant high pings and denials of congestion on there network only to turn around and admit it and announce new pipes on the way. I am happy with IDNet.

No-one's saying you were wrong to start the thread, Juice. It was a valid enquiry and allowed us to find out the cause of the problem. Sadly, we are unable, as users, to resolve the matter to everyone's satisfaction. :(

OTOH, the games will be over on Sunday.  :yes:

Quote from: Rik on Aug 21, 2008, 18:40:27
OTOH, the games will be over on Sunday.  :yes:

I'll most definitely be thankful for that, Rik.  :yes: :yeay:

I would be the first to admit that I can fall into the, "grumpy old man" category but having followed this thread with no particular axe to grind about reduced speeds with my typical internet use but I must ask what is wrong with the Olympics?  ???

I enjoy watching people striving for and often achieving or even surpassing the goals they have set themselves. I say all credit to them and for the enjoyable entertainment they brings to many of us.  :thumb:

 :iagree:

Quote from: LesD on Aug 21, 2008, 21:28:04
I would be the first to admit that I can fall into the, "grumpy old man" category but having followed this thread with no particular axe to grind about reduced speeds with my typical internet use but I must ask what is wrong with the Olympics?  ???

I enjoy watching people striving for and often achieving or even surpassing the goals they have set themselves. I say all credit to them and for the enjoyable entertainment they brings to many of us.  :thumb:

Thats fine Les but when is the sack race on,I seem to have missed the egg and spoon race  ;D

Quote from: LesD on Aug 21, 2008, 21:28:04
I would be the first to admit that I can fall into the, "grumpy old man" category but having followed this thread with no particular axe to grind about reduced speeds with my typical internet use but I must ask what is wrong with the Olympics?  ???

I enjoy watching people striving for and often achieving or even surpassing the goals they have set themselves. I say all credit to them and for the enjoyable entertainment they brings to many of us.  :thumb:

me too  :iagree: :duck: :out:

Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 21, 2008, 21:40:34
Thats fine Les but when is the sack race on,I seem to have missed the egg and spoon race  ;D

For egg and spoon read relay race and sack read Colin Jackson. Seriously though there has been some truly remarkable feats achieved by many athletes both at home and abroad during these games.

Is In about maybe we should have a poll!  :out:

I think you've either got the 'sports' gene, or you haven't, Les.  For those of us who haven't, it's a bore.  :)

Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 21, 2008, 21:40:34
Thats fine Les but when is the sack race on,I seem to have missed the egg and spoon race  ;D

Point taken but maybe it would be better made with the likes of synchronised swimming. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/LesD123/Wink.gif)
I doubt anyone likes it all but that's what make its great there is such variety that the appeal is wide.  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/LesD123/Smile.gif)

Quote from: Simon on Aug 21, 2008, 21:50:40
I think you've either got the 'sports' gene, or you haven't, Les.  For those of us who haven't, it's a bore.  :)

Football I detest, Cricket I can miss, Formula I I like, Tennis is OK at times and I did play table tennis in the bottom end of the local league when I felt less decrepit than I do at the moment.

I never felt I have the 'sports' gene you mention Simon but I like not to rule anything in or everything out.

Quote from: Simon on Aug 21, 2008, 21:50:40
I think you've either got the 'sports' gene, or you haven't, Les.  For those of us who haven't, it's a bore.  :)

Each to their own I have to agree no sports gene here,I cant think of one sport I would watch let alone pay,and I see we have won all the gold Gordon Brown sold off cheaply,but when I think we are next and we are going to pay for this and end up with sweet FA and the stadium is not that far from here........god!!! the thought of it depresses me  :-[

women's beach volleyball  :jammie:

Quote from: psp83 on Aug 21, 2008, 22:05:03
women's beach volleyball  :jammie:

Ah twentyfive years or so ago I can still vividly recall watching it "in the flesh" on Ipanema beach in Rio de Janeiro. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/LesD123/Wink.gif)

Quote from: psp83 on Aug 21, 2008, 22:05:03
women's beach volleyball  :jammie:

On the other hand I may have been harsh on the olympics  :whistle:

hehe.

just a thought.. 2012 olympics.. Will it be called the winter olympics  ??? hehe.

and are they building an "indoor" beach volleyball area, as we know what the british summer is like  :eyebrow:

It needs to be indoors Paul I suggest they carry out this sport on trampolines as well  >:D

And in bikinis!!

Will be much more fun to watch then  ;)

Quote from: psp83 on Aug 21, 2008, 22:38:21
And in bikinis!!

or without  :smug: :rub:

Philip !!!!!!!! :cheers: I have just Emailed Lord Coe...... :thumb:

Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 21, 2008, 23:06:44
Philip !!!!!!!! :cheers: I have just Emailed Lord Coe...... :thumb:

try and get us front row seats David :thumb:

Quote from: LesD on Aug 21, 2008, 21:47:05
Is In about maybe we should have a poll!  :out:

;D ;D :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: :no:

;)

Im in two minds..............and they are both bouncing for some reason.....strange thing the human mind  ;)

yeah been having a lot of problems with dropped connection for the past week :(

hope its sorted soon.

Dropped connections are generally a local issue, between you and your exchange, they aren't caused by congestion. What does your router log show?

I'm getting dropped connections recently. Had one last night, and just had two this morning, which is problematic as I'm trying to work from home with a remote connection to work.

BT info for my local exchange shows green and no recent problems.

Modem log extract:

08/22/2008  10:43:26 If(ATM1) PPP connection ok !
08/22/2008  10:43:25 ATM1 get IP:91.135.11.236
08/22/2008  10:43:04 ATM1 start PPP           
08/22/2008  10:43:04 Dial On Demand(ATM1)     
08/22/2008  10:42:47 192.168.2.4 login success
08/22/2008  10:42:37 User from 192.168.2.4 timed out
08/22/2008  10:41:00 ADSL Media Up !           
08/22/2008  10:40:45 ATM1 stop PPP             
08/22/2008  10:40:45 ADSL Media Down !         
08/22/2008  08:58:42 NTP Date/Time updated.   
08/22/2008  08:53:34 If(ATM1) PPP connection ok !
08/22/2008  08:53:33 ATM1 get IP:91.135.11.236
08/22/2008  08:53:28 ATM1 start PPP           
08/22/2008  08:53:28 Dial On Demand(ATM1)     
08/22/2008  08:53:22 If(ATM1) PPP fail : Unknown error or UI Connect/Disconnect
08/22/2008  08:53:20 ATM1 start PPP           
08/22/2008  08:53:20 Dial On Demand(ATM1)     
08/22/2008  08:52:55 192.168.2.4 login success
08/22/2008  00:22:23 NTP Date/Time updated.   

That appears to be a loss of sync - have you noticed any flashing lights?

Quote from: Rik on Aug 22, 2008, 10:56:22
That appears to be a loss of sync - have you noticed any flashing lights?

Those UFOs landing with the flashing lights play havoc with your noise margin ;)

This may be about to blow up in the Beeb's face...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/22/bbc_cdn_isps_level3/

Can't understand this quote from Zen:  "..Zen Internet is expecting the decision to increase its costs economically; all but a select few large networks must pay Level3 to receive traffic originated within their network".

Economically?  Do they mean UNeconomically?  Exponentially?

Hopefully...personally I can take or leave the iPlayer. Not as if there is lots of content actually worth watching on it now is there?

Quote from: Tacitus on Aug 22, 2008, 12:05:12
Economically?  Do they mean UNeconomically?  Exponentially?

Does come across as gibberish, Tac. I think it has to be uneconomically to make any sense.

Knowing the Beeb, though, they'll create the mess then blame everyone else. :(

I think that iPlayer is the biggest single mistake that the BBC has ever made, it is not part of their licence remit to provide it, as far as I am aware,  so why do they need to spend money on it, when it would be better spent on doing what is within their remit?

Quote from: vitriol on Aug 22, 2008, 12:12:25
Hopefully...personally I can take or leave the iPlayer. Not as if there is lots of content actually worth watching on it now is there?

I can take it or leave it too, but as the current Olympics have demonstrated there is a demand for IPTV in some form.  If the Beeb's antics bugger up 'good' ISPs like iDNet and Zen, we are all the poorer.

It's worth reading a comment further down the page on the news item.  Apparently in the Netherlands the broadcasters and ISPs are cooperating to bring this stuff to the masses.  Here of course, 'cooperation" is an old-fashioned "socialist" concept and "competition" and the 'market' are the sole arbiters.

As a result quality heads down the pan and the bottom line rules.  Customer service is an oxymoron.

Quote from: Inactive on Aug 22, 2008, 12:19:26
I think that iPlayer is the biggest single mistake that the BBC has ever made, it is not part of their licence remit to provide it, as far as I am aware,  so why do they need to spend money on it, when it would be better spent on doing what is within their remit?

I think they could argue that bringing BBC programmes to the licence fee payers in a new form, falls within their remit.  The problem is the remit is so widely drawn as to mean all things to all men.  Given the commercial companies are doing (4OD) they probably have little option if they are to survive.

Personally, I'd be quite happy if IDNet were to block use of the iPlayer, or to make it a separate subscription service, as has been mentioned already.

Quote from: Simon on Aug 22, 2008, 14:07:28
Personally, I'd be quite happy if IDNet were to block use of the iPlayer, or to make it a separate subscription service, as has been mentioned already.

I would be even happier if all ISP's blocked it.

Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 21, 2008, 21:40:34
Thats fine Les but when is the sack race on,I seem to have missed the egg and spoon race  ;D

Who mentioned food,  :food: call Rik. ;D

You rang? ;D

I presume most people using iplayer now are at work?Otherwise you'd watch it on TV or is that old fashioned? People now prefer blurry images in small boxes can't wait for the HD transmission think of the bandwidth usage then :eek4: I speed tested this morning at 07:30 D/L 830kB/sec now at D/L of 75kB/sec and I expect from 1800 or so it will be backup again.

I think you're right, Steve, if you're at home then why bother with iPlayer. Makes you wonder how many working hours have been lost this past couple of weeks.

Quote from: Rik on Aug 22, 2008, 10:56:22
That appears to be a loss of sync - have you noticed any flashing lights?

No, I just reset it via the browser - the modem is hidden away.

I had IDNet test your line, and though it is dropping sync, it reconnects at the same or similar speed, with the profile stable.

That suggests a wiring issue internal to your house, or a faulty modem. Can you borrow a spare to eliminate the latter?

Two speed tests done within a minute of each other,

Mine (IDNET) (http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=1219436508&v=4896917)

My Friend (Eclipse) (http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=1219436437&v=4896914)

I live approx 400 metres from the exchange, he lives about 800.  Can anyone offer an explaination, or is it just a capacity issue?

The slow speeds I have seen recently have normally resolved by early evening,which was a bt/idnet congestion issue. Is the eclipse an LLU or BT connection?

My speeds have dropped steadily through 2008. Idnet I would guess  have oversold and are now fairly average.
I assume they need more capacity.

Called them this week and they blamed contention at my exchange, just checked with two others on bb both near the local exchange like me ( 400mtrs ) . They were syncing at full speed and getting actual throughputs of 5000k and 5400k . The first was on BTs own retail product, the other on also on  Ipstream with I think Eclipse.  I get 1000k on a good day mostly around 600kbps. Since neither BT or Eclipse are usually regards as premium products I feel sure that the problem is somewhere in Idnet land.

The man at Idnet said the usual BT policy for domestic customers was to provide 20mbps for every 50 lines enabled i e about 400kbps per user if we all were on the system downloading at the same time. I live in a small town and think the exchange supports about 6000lines including the many small outlying villages , a large proportion do not have bb as I struggled to get anyone to do speedtests locally, I think we have a lot of (a) retired folk in the area (b) many quite poor and needing to spend their fixed incomes on stuff like food/heat and (c) they have better things to do than use the internet much,  unlike me and the rest of you guys. 

Funnily when I was with  Eclipse last year I left because I was only getting 1.5 to 2mbps at 8meg syncs and never any more than 2.3mbps with occasional massive drops to around 100kbps. Idnet are slower than Eclipse at least comparing 2007 to 2008.

Now IDNET provide a near constant sub 1 meg throughput when my neighbours get five times the speed for about same or less cash.

I hear NewNet are cheap and fairly fast!! Feel a MAC request coming on.

Question Why would anyone want to watch TV on the internet when they presumably have a TV ( except at work when they should be giving value for money to others?)

People say the only valid speedtest is the always unavailable BT one! Thats like saying its greener to use the almost non existant bus service around here rather than ones car.

Quote from: Inactive on Aug 22, 2008, 14:20:42
I would be even happier if all ISP's blocked it.

yes that would make them really popular with users wouldn't it  ::), if a small ISP has not got the capacity so be it that's because they are a small ISP if you want to watch iplayer you need too re-model your usage and what ISP best serves you, that simple, don't blame the small ISP, you can't have small, friendly and huge capacity, it does not go hand in hand, and saying ban something that is only going to get more popular as other platforms similar to the iPlayer take off is ridiculous. the internet is about evolution and innovation in multimedia media as well as basic services, I use the listen again feature for radio on the BBC a lot as well as sitting on a few forums and browsing and sending and receiving emails as well. If you don't like it don't use it it, but you can't halt change and with BT providing subscription based TV over the net like Virgin this type of product will become more popular, you have your choice of what you need , and if the ISP you choose suffers because of it then they should look at what they want to provide and to whom, nothing stands still, and as people like to use this service its here to stay I would imagine anyway.

Quote from: Killhippie on Aug 23, 2008, 00:06:12
you can't have small and sweet friendly, and huge capacity, it does not go hand in hand,

Why not? IDNet need only provide sufficient capacity for their users, whether that number is 10 or 100,000.

Personally, I'm sick of moaning ISPs (and it's not just IDNet) complaining about iPlayer. It always used to be that ISPs blamed BT for problems and BT blamed ISPs. Now everyone has something else to blame; iPlayer. It's about as stupid as if BT had turned around years ago and said: "Sorry, our phone lines weren't designed for this new fangled internet thing, so you'll just have to put up with slow speeds".

Quote from: Killhippie on Aug 23, 2008, 00:06:12
yes that would make them really popular with users wouldn't it  ::), if a small ISP has not got the capacity so be it that's because they are a small ISP if you want to watch iplayer you need too re-model your usage and what ISP best serves you, that simple, don't blame the small ISP, you can't have small, friendly and huge capacity, it does not go hand in hand, and saying ban something that is only going to get more popular as other platforms similar to the iPlayer take off is ridiculous.

I am not blaming any ISP, I am blaming the BBC and others for providing a service that serves no real purpose over and above existing technology, for which it pays nothing to ISP's to provide.

I have no problem with subscription services where the customer pays directly for a service, I do object to the BBC and others leeching off of ISP's with a free content service that is freely available to non licence fee payers, with no effective control.

This past week has proved conclusively that iPlayer does serve a very real purpose over and above existing technology. If it didn't, we wouldn't have seen it being used so heavily.

I don't use iPlayer much, but I think it's a wonderful thing. My children, sadly none of whom are into sport, have viewed most of the Olympics in small doses at times that have suited their lives. Had iPlayer not been available they would have missed out, and despite some people's view that the Olympics are a waste of time, I'm pleased that mine and others' children have had this opportunity to expand their horizons.

Quote from: Dopamine on Aug 23, 2008, 00:43:30
This past week has proved conclusively that iPlayer does serve a very real purpose over and above existing technology. If it didn't, we wouldn't have seen it being used so heavily.

Mainly, I suspect by people watching it on works computers, the companies involved will in all probability not have TV Licences, nor will many of the companies even know that their employees are using their computers in this way.

Quote from: stevethegas on Aug 22, 2008, 22:00:02Is the eclipse an LLU or BT connection?

BT connection steve, there is no LLU at our exchange.

Sorry cannot be much further help but if you assume that you both follow a similar pathway on to BT ipstream I would have thought that you would get similar results, as once the games have quietened down I get very reasonable download speeds from idnet and I know that exchange congestion is something I suffer from.

I presume you have looked at your own hardware, I know from a previous post that your sync is full and so was your profile so a poor throughput is often down to congestion. I suppose if your number of CRC 's is high and/or your connection MTU/RWIN settings not optimised that this would effect throughput.If however your using vista the default dynamic control of MTU/RWIN works well for me. Lastly software firewalls produce very strange results on my machine so I always turn it off prior to a speedtest

Quote from: vitriol on Aug 22, 2008, 20:26:25
Two speed tests done within a minute of each other,

Mine (IDNET) (http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=1219436508&v=4896917)

My Friend (Eclipse) (http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=1219436437&v=4896914)

I live approx 400 metres from the exchange, he lives about 800.  Can anyone offer an explaination, or is it just a capacity issue?

Without knowing the line stats, there are two obvious variables, ISP and VP at the exchange. We know IDNet has suffered from congestion, we don't know if there is congestion on your VP but not your friend's. :(

Quote from: Inactive on Aug 23, 2008, 00:53:23
Mainly, I suspect by people watching it on works computers, the companies involved will in all probability not have TV Licences, nor will many of the companies even know that their employees are using their computers in this way.

I suspect its watched by kids in their bedrooms, people just catching up on an episode of a program they have missed or to check out a new show that a friend may recommend, as far as I can see the BBC bleed us enough already so having a free service on the net is great in my view.

The problem for me, Gary, is that the BBC usually pay for the cost of transmitting their programmes. With iPlayer, they are asking ISPs and their customers to pay instead. It's not, therefore, a free service but an additional cost over and above the licence fee. Not only that, but the costs they do incur in making iPlayer available are borne by everyone, but the service is only available to some.

Quote from: Dopamine on Aug 23, 2008, 00:24:44
Why not? IDNet need only provide sufficient capacity for their users, whether that number is 10 or 100,000.

Personally, I'm sick of moaning ISPs (and it's not just IDNet) complaining about iPlayer. It always used to be that ISPs blamed BT for problems and BT blamed ISPs. Now everyone has something else to blame; iPlayer. It's about as stupid as if BT had turned around years ago and said: "Sorry, our phone lines weren't designed for this new fangled internet thing, so you'll just have to put up with slow speeds".

For IDNet to provide that kind of capacity I suspect they would have to have many more customers Dopamine, then your 5 ring answer at IDNet towers will vanish as they get swamped, they are a small ISP and they are good at what they do, but to purchase greater capacity may beyond what they want up to a point, as a company gets bigger you lose the personal touch, have to employ more people, so costs go up, or failing that you will be charged more for that greater capacity, that's what I was suggesting.

Quote from: Rik on Aug 23, 2008, 09:54:20
The problem for me, Gary, is that the BBC usually pay for the cost of transmitting their programmes. With iPlayer, they are asking ISPs and their customers to pay instead. It's not, therefore, a free service but an additional cost over and above the licence fee. Not only that, but the costs they do incur in making iPlayer available are borne by everyone, but the service is only available to some.

Exactly Rik, I couldn't agree more, it actually encourages people to avoid paying a licence fee IMO, so self defeating.

Quote from: Rik on Aug 23, 2008, 09:54:20
The problem for me, Gary, is that the BBC usually pay for the cost of transmitting their programmes. With iPlayer, they are asking ISPs and their customers to pay instead. It's not, therefore, a free service but an additional cost over and above the licence fee. Not only that, but the costs they do incur in making iPlayer available are borne by everyone, but the service is only available to some.

I can see your point of view Rik, but the BBC are between a rock and a hard place, if they charge it will fail, people will just say "we pay enough already" and surely as the Internet's media transmissions expand providers will have too take that into consideration, the iPlayer is not he only bandwidth hungry application and I am sure many more will appear as time goes on as demand for all in one media solutions grow :-\

The BBC don't give away free DVDs if you missed a programme, Gary, so why should they give away the iPlayer?

Indeed, I have no problem with iPlayer as long as it is subscription based, not free to all and sundry.
>:(

Quote from: Inactive on Aug 23, 2008, 10:07:43
Exactly Rik, I couldn't agree more, it actually encourages people to avoid paying a licence fee IMO, so self defeating.

I really doubt that In, its an enhancement and I do not think people think "Oh great I can watch a limited number or shows online therefore I shall not pay my license fee" It does not really work as live TV, just a recap mostly. Considering the BBC's limited appeal in good entertainment imho these days, I think we deserve more innovation.

Surely its not only iplayer, should you wish look at the number of live video feeds on here http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics/live_action/7578005.stm You can grind everything to a halt without iplayer.

Quote from: Rik on Aug 23, 2008, 10:12:48
The BBC don't give away free DVDs if you missed a programme, Gary, so why should they give away the iPlayer?

Because they charge us enough already in my view Rik. What about all the music video sites, you could use that same analogy there.

Quote from: Killhippie on Aug 23, 2008, 10:16:18
I really doubt that In, its an enhancement and I do not think people think "Oh great I can watch a limited number or shows online therefore I shall not pay my license fee" It does not really work as live TV, just a recap mostly. Considering the BBC's limited appeal in good entertainment imho these days, I think we deserve more innovation.

I think you are wrong Gary, how many companies do you think own a TV Licence?...clearly the use of the iPlayer has been at work places throughout the Olympics.

If the BBC stopped wasting funding on this so called " innovation " then they may well have enough money to make some decent programmes. ::)

Quote from: Killhippie on Aug 23, 2008, 10:20:00
Because they charge us enough already in my view Rik. What about all the music video sites, you could use that same analogy there.

I don't use them, Gary, so can't comment. All I'm saying is that I believe a 'net based catchup service to be unnecessary with all the PVRs around and that it should be self-funding if it is provided.

Simple solution to all this!

Give everyone a line like mine and they wont be able to watch anything  :P

BT are trying, Paul. ;D

Very. ;)

Why are BT trying Paul,this is grossly unfair,we have courts for this and he should get a fair trial at least  ;D

They are trying my patience  :mad:

Still stuck with 160kbps downstream  :'(

Hey, it's better than a 56k modem, Paul. ;D :out:

Wow, what a thread, and I missed it! I've just run a speed test and it's absolutely normal, but obviously it may well have been different earlier in the week.

Seemed to be a particularly bad couple of days, Seb, but my speed was never affected.

Nor mine...  ;)

Nor Ray's, of course, In. I guess it depended on how you use the net and when.

I suspect Ray hit the nail on the head...rural exchange, little industry..little use of industrial connections to watch the bloody Olympics.

I think you're right, In.

Olympics are done and am still having the same problems as posted before with really bad packetloss all the time just about.

Have you contacted support?

yup 2 days ago no repley.

What address/phone number did you use?

Quote from: GameRuk on Aug 27, 2008, 18:12:55
yup 2 days ago no repley.

That's not like IDNet. Where did you send it to?

i contacted them with this email contactus@idnet.com

odd they have not replied  :dunno: but you could try this email address support@idnet.net

It is odd, but you should use the support address in future. :thumb:

Quote from: Sebby on Aug 27, 2008, 23:31:10
It is odd, but you should use the support address in future. :thumb:

Which isn't listed on the IDNet site, unless I've missed it (which isn't beyond the realms of possibility)!

Edit: Just found it under the cancelling your service scection on the FAQ page.

Is it possible to have it added to the text of the how do I raise a fault section?

Is that on the IDNet website, Jaydub?

Quote from: Rik on Aug 28, 2008, 09:17:25
Is that on the IDNet website, Jaydub?

Rik,

Certainly is.

http://www.idnet.net/support/faq.jsp

They ask you to raise faults via email, but don't tell you what email address you should use. :)

I'll suggest an edit.  :thumb:

Whilst you are asking Rik, any chance you could ask them to put a link to the service status on the front page, maybe in place of the Ip address checker? Saves a click when having a quick look!

Good point,unless they only want us to know.

And whilst your at, it is that service announcement about sub-optimal service still valid.

Well i got my reply it was quick lol send email to them last night,they have done test on line and its good,but i have got to say going by what they told me that they going to ask bt to disable interleaving.As far as i know its on fast path,so i have got to wait 24hrs and test it again.

I would have thought idnet would know if its interleaved or not,they did when asked them. Let us know how  it goes, often wondered about having my interleaving removed for son's gaming but worried throughput will fall as a result.Idnet did say its usually put on for a reason by BT.BT information suggests its used to stabilise a marginal line but as it seems to work so well on any line its an easy "fix".

Quote from: Lance on Aug 28, 2008, 13:56:17
Whilst you are asking Rik, any chance you could ask them to put a link to the service status on the front page, maybe in place of the Ip address checker? Saves a click when having a quick look!

Quote from: stevethegas on Aug 28, 2008, 14:02:43
Good point,unless they only want us to know.

And whilst your at, it is that service announcement about sub-optimal service still valid.

I'll ask...

Meantime, the email address is now in the FAQ. :)

Quote from: stevethegas on Aug 28, 2008, 14:02:43
And whilst your at, it is that service announcement about sub-optimal service still valid.

Now gone. :)

Thanks,another lasting remembrance of the Olympics has now gone.

Another piece of ephemera bites the dust, eh. :)

Just need the link to the status page now...

Quote from: Rik on Aug 28, 2008, 15:32:00
Another piece of ephemera bites the dust, eh. :)

Just need the link to the status page now...

Good choice of word ephemera. A Greek word-things lasting no more than a day.

It's one of those words I like, Steve, has a nice ring to it. :)

And we now have a link to the status page from the 'front' page of the IDNet site. IDNet - the listening ISP.  :thumb:

and it works!

More often than not. :)

Quote from: Rik on Aug 28, 2008, 15:07:14
Meantime, the email address is now in the FAQ. :)

TVM, Rik.

No sooner said than done. :D

Some nice improvements - thanks, Rik. :)

Thank, Tim - I just asked. :)

Even though you sorted it indirectly, I still feel you're the one to thank! ;)

 :kiss: ;D

I lost the thread on this topic............I like the word though Rik...sometimes not worth the paper its written on  ;D ;D ;D

Thanks to both Rik and Tim!