Anyone else having pop3 issues with idnet mail servers? "Your server has unexpectedly terminated the connection. Possible causes for this include server problems, network problems, or a long period of inactivity"
It was all working fine this morning?
Might be something up because I literally posted a minute before you complaining of email issues:
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=9071.0
;D Always the way, guess its a server glitch possibly, anyone else having issues?
No problems here, but there were some reported at TB this morning, so IDNet were checking.
UPDATE
They are re-starting the grey-listing servers to clear some spam out of the way. It seems to be an issue mainly affecting people accessing their mail through a non-IDNet connection.
Cheers Rik, I may give IDNet a call if it does not sort itself out, just called should be up and working within the next ten/fifteen minutes
See my edit, Gary. :)
Your to fast for me Rik, would explain things as my mail is hosted and I'm with another provider ;D
Doesn't explain me :( I'm with IDNet and I'm trying to acces my IDNet Email :bawl:
Give it 10-15 mins and all should be well :)
Quote from: Pez on Jul 02, 2008, 13:03:15
Doesn't explain me :( I'm with IDNet and I'm trying to acces my IDNet Email :bawl:
But via the web interface? It should all be fine shortly.
I'm getting this error message when trying to use Outlook Express. My email address ends @idnet.com
The server responded with an error. Account: 'POP3.idnet.com', Server: 'pop3.idnet.com', Protocol: POP3, Server Response: '-ERR AVG POP3 Proxy Server: Cannot connect to the mail server!', Port: 110, Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 0x800CCC90, Error Number: 0x800CCC90
Doesn't mean a thing to me. Is something wrong at my end or at IDNet's?
Im getting the same error............... >:(
From Idnet service status page
Announcement 2008-07-02 14:43 -
2008-07-02 14:43 No Service Status: Down
A spam attack has disabled our idnet.com mail server. Engineers are currently busy working on bringing the server back-up as soon as possible.
Email - idnet.com 2008-07-02 13:00 -
2008-07-02 14:37 No Service Status: Down
Only visible if your logged in.
Thanks,
I didn't think to login and check!! :blush:
Same problems for me too, and rain has stopped play at Wimbledon!
Not my day, but thanks for keeping us informed Rik and IDnet. :)
What I want to know is who named the mail server Trevor? :P
I blame Simon. The idnet.co.uk server is Pat, Delilah died... :(
Awww...
"Postman Pat, Postman Pat, Postman Pat and his black and white cat..." :P
;D
Maybe, just maybe.
My computers are called Matilda (main PC, one I'm on now), Luciana (old laptop) and Annika (new laptop).
I've yet to name the really old computer that's upstairs in a box.
I'm more prosaic. :) This is Beanmain, the otherdesktop is Beandesk, and the lappy is Beanbook.
Just a quick question, are incoming emails being stored somewhere or are they being rejected? I only ask as I'm waiting an email from my consultant, who should be emailing me his findings of the MRI scan I had yesterday.
There may be some data loss, Glenn, unfortunately until the server finishes re-building, Simon can't get at the logs. :(
I'm in a similar situation waiting for some important mail, I'm sure they will do their very best though to save as much as possible :thumb:
Quote from: Killhippie on Jul 02, 2008, 18:05:42
I'm in a similar situation waiting for some important mail, I'm sure they will do their very best though to save as much as possible :thumb:
Same here, a poster design I did for a client went to the printers this morning, so I'm waiting for an email to say everything went through all ok, without a problem!
Do others not keep back up addresses? I have my own domain mail, hosted at 1&1, plus yahoo, GMail and Orange, so that there's always a route to mail unless the net itself is down.
I would urge members to at least open GMail accounts.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 02, 2008, 18:31:08
Do others not keep back up addresses? I have my own domain mail, hosted at 1&1, plus yahoo, GMail and Orange, so that there's always a route to mail unless the net itself is down.
I would urge members to at least open GMail accounts.
I never use ISP or "FREE" emails for this reason.
I have several domains that i pay for and use them for emails.
This is really annoying, I was expecting to come home to an email confirming the first income I've had in 5 months had gone into my account... and I can't see it!!!
Sorry, Ginger, there's nothing we can do from here - I'm waiting to hear further from IDNet.
Quote from: psp83 on Jul 02, 2008, 18:40:32
I never use ISP or "FREE" emails for this reason.
I have several domains that i pay for and use them for emails.
Same here.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 02, 2008, 18:31:08
Do others not keep back up addresses? I have my own domain mail, hosted at 1&1, plus yahoo, GMail and Orange, so that there's always a route to mail unless the net itself is down.
Same here, Rik, I have my own domain email and use that for my main email addresses, I just use Hotmail and the Idnet ones as a backup.
Quote from: Sebby on Jul 02, 2008, 19:06:59
Same here.
I pay IDnet for my email hosting, as my idnet.com addresses have the .co.uk extras added to them, even though I have back up addresses and its still down for me so its not free email hosting from my end, I understand its not their fault though, its still annoying when you pay for a service and it goes wrong, we just are used to it working 24/7 so things like this just stick out more really
I think paying specifically for your own domain is the way to go as it's their job to keep email going whereas for an ISP it's just a sort of add on and is never quite so reliable.
My thoughts entirely, Ann. With a Google or so just in case. ;)
Quote from: Ann on Jul 02, 2008, 19:24:23
I think paying specifically for your own domain is the way to go as it's their job to keep email going whereas for an ISP it's just a sort of add on and is never quite so reliable.
So I should have my own wind turbines or mini nuclear power plant as paying for my electricity would not be so reliable as providing my own :rofl: off to build it all now ;)
Er no, you buy your electricity from an electricity company rather than from an ISP. :no:
Email is a basic service which should be part of any ISPs package, in my opinion, and I don't see why I should have to pay extra for an outside provider. I am sure that after this third major email failure within a year, IDNet will take steps to make the systems more robust for the future.
I don't believe email is free here, with the prices we pay, (happy to pay that bit extra for a better service)I am sure it is included in the cost.
One thing I can't understand is why a spam attack should take the server file system down. I can understand it would fill up the disk but not why it should corrupt the file system.
It might also be a good idea if iDNet separated the servers so that mail is on its own dedicated server.
[Sorry Mods - this might have been better on the thread below "The recent spam attack"]
Can someone explain why a domain name email is more robust than idnet's? I have used a domain name in the past and present to keep the same email address.Is it the common address i.e @idnet.com that makes them easier to target successfully?
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 02, 2008, 20:53:04
Can someone explain why a domain name email is more robust than idnet's? I have used a domain name in the past and present to keep the same email address.Is it the common address i.e @idnet.com that makes them easier to target successfully?
I think it's just the fact that if you buy a domain with mail and web hosting, this is their core service. On the other hand, I see email as a free service that you get with your ISP, and so it's probably not the most important thing to them.
Thanks.
Also.. With your own domains. You dont have tto have them pointed to the same server.. so you could have backups on different hosts.. Like i do.. And all important emails/docs get sent to my main email and cc'd to my backups..
My mail (to my own domain) is proving to be more reliable than IDNet's even though I manage the mail server :eek4:
Quote from: Simon on Jul 02, 2008, 19:54:19
Email is a basic service which should be part of any ISPs package, in my opinion, and I don't see why I should have to pay extra for an outside provider. I am sure that after this third major email failure within a year, IDNet will take steps to make the systems more robust for the future.
I think Im here on this one.and I thought my Email was better protected than with most.I have not backed up.so this could be a bit of a challenge these things happen but today I know there is an Email been sent but dont know what the decision it holds but leaves us on tenderhooks.
Could anyone tell me if the sender will have any idea of this or will they be under the impression the mail has been delivered ?
If an email is undeliverable the sender will be informed,may take 24 hours though, as the senders mail server may repeatedly try to deliver it.
Thats ok then so as long as they know it hasnt reached me as they would be awaiting a decision from me :phew:
Hi there
There is no announcement on the RSS feeds saying that the Email is down. :getwell:
I thought that RSS feeds were also to tell users of any major announcements and also their bandwith useage (but maybe I am wrong on that) Could someone clarify?
Thanks
Harry
My RSS feed shows the email status, and the webspace too!
This part of my RSS feed
Status Notification: Announcement - 02 July 2008 14:43:10
Service: Announcement
Posted: 02 July 2008 14:43:10
Updated: 02 July 2008 14:43:10
Status:In Progress
Message: A spam attack has disabled our idnet.com mail server. Engineers are currently busy working on bringing the server back-up as soon as possible.
Sorry about that guys......stupid me. I had my settings wrongly set at one day check....changed it to every four hours. Now it is showing the Spam Attack.
Thanks for that
Harry
PS should I change that every hour check? ........or even less
Quote from: Danni on Jul 02, 2008, 21:46:46
My mail (to my own domain) is proving to be more reliable than IDNet's even though I manage the mail server :eek4:
Perhaps IDNet have got a position for you. ;)
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jul 02, 2008, 23:06:51
PS should I change that every hour check? ........or even less
It's up to you really. There's no harm in reducing it to every hour, and it'll at least be more up to date. :)
Same here, I've had the RSS feeds.
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 02, 2008, 20:53:04
Can someone explain why a domain name email is more robust than idnet's? I have used a domain name in the past and present to keep the same email address.Is it the common address i.e @idnet.com that makes them easier to target successfully?
It isn't inherently, Steve. OTOH, providing email is their core business, as Sebby says. TBH. I sense that IDNet regard the idnet.com addresses as 'giveaways' with the ADSL package, hence on the last two occasions, idnet.com has been down while the 'paid for' idnet.co.uk addresses have been fine.
Quote from: Tacitus on Jul 02, 2008, 20:37:18
One thing I can't understand is why a spam attack should take the server file system down. I can understand it would fill up the disk but not why it should corrupt the file system.
It might also be a good idea if iDNet separated the servers so that mail is on its own dedicated server.
[Sorry Mods - this might have been better on the thread below "The recent spam attack"]
Hi Tac
Apparently, the spam hitting the server coincided with a peak in Apache activity, possibly caused by one of the sites hosted on the server.
I agree with you, personally, I feel the time has come for a dedicated mail server.
Trevor is still running the file system check routines. We cannot boot the machine until it has finished these checks.
Simon
Quote from: Rik on Jul 02, 2008, 23:43:19
Apparently, the spam hitting the server coincided with a peak in Apache activity, possibly caused by one of the sites hosted on the server.
That's unfortunate rather than incompetence although had mail been on a separate server it probably would not have happened...
Quote from: Rik on Jul 02, 2008, 23:43:19
I agree with you, personally, I feel the time has come for a dedicated mail server.
Definitely! Server
S rather than one alone - they should also have full back up and fall back arrangements. TBH I think iDNet really need to get a grip on this. Their whole shtick is to offer a premium service albeit at a slightly higher price than the norm. On the whole they succeed, but 3 mail failures in the short time I've been hanging out here does not fill me with confidence. Demon's mail servers may be like a sloth on Mogadon at times, but total failures are relatively rare.
It must be the name. I knew a Trevor once, ginger hair, bit odd went off to learn how to bake cakes. :)
Thanks for the update, Simon.
For outgoing mail service (while smtp.idnet.com is offline) you are welcome to use smtp.idnet.net
This is a large Linux machine which hosts a lot of mail. This means that there are millions of files spread across the RAID filsystems. The Operating System has detected a number of 'errors' that it is fixing. At this time we are not sure is these 'errors' are bad disk sectors (that would result in lost data) or just simply orphaned files (which you get with mail servers). However, the OS will not boot until it has marked the Filesystem as clean. This process has been running since yesterday afternoon but unfortunately does not indicate how far through it has progressed i.e. it could be 99% of the way through or only 50%
We apologise for the inconvenience.
Simon
Thanks for that update Simon. I use my Gmail address for most of my commercial emails so I let them take all the starin and spam :). Idnet mail server is use donly for personal and other known specific contacts. Never had much of a problem since using it this way.
Worked with a Trevor once, we used to call him Clever Trevour !
Oh well, just thought you'd like to know :whistle:
cavillas I do the same. I treat my Idnet address as my private personal address and only give it out to my private contacts so that very little (if any) spam hits my Idnet Email address. I don't know why a lot of people are getting annoyed about this, as this very rarely happens. It's not Idnet's fault some low life is attacking it's Server and I am sure Idnet is doing it's best to resolve the problem (not like my previous Internet Service Provider)
Idnet :getwell:
Harry
I think the reason for the annoyance, Harry, is that this is fourth time since October that mail has been affected.
Thanks for the update, Simon. Fingers crossed for the better outcome.
Neither SMTP server is available for me ATM.
IMHO POP3 and SMTP should be on separate machines as well as definitely not sharing with any hosting. I host my email elsewhere but I rely on the IDNet SMTP server for my business. Please can something be done so that an attack on the POP server doesn't take it down?
Thanks,
Paul.
I know Simon D is monitoring this thread, Paul, so I am sure he will see your message. I think you echo the concern of many of us about the robustness of the mail system.
If I have been collecting my emails every minute and then the server went down, will I be less likely to suffer any lost emails due to corruption on the server? As I presume any sent now will just bounce back.
I'm also concerned about loss of email. With this outage, what's happened to mail in my mailbox, and what about any new mail that I've been sent?
11:26 and POP access is still down. Any idea when it will be back up? (24 hours without email is starting to be a problem for me since I use it for work).
Seb :)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 03, 2008, 11:17:12
......I think you echo the concern of many of us about the robustness of the mail system.
There seems to be general agreement that the mail system needs urgently reviewing and done completely separately with the necessary robustness/backup systems built in.
What may be happening is that iDNet have grown (a good thing :) ) and some of the systems are no longer up to the job. Might be they need to take some time out and review the complete setup asking themselves, 'will this be up to it if we put on x amount of additional growth'?
Jon & Sebt
Unfortunately, I don't have any more information than I've already posted. I can only advise you to contact IDNet directly.
You're right, Tac, this may be a case of growth, or a failure either in hardware (I'd hope not, it was replaced last October) or housekeeping or maintenance. Whatever the cause, once IDNet have things running again, I believe they need to take an urgent look at what went wrong and why, then sort it.
@Rik
I can't speak for Jon, but my questions were directed more to Simon_idnet who I know monitors here.
Just hope email is up soon!
Seb :)
He's here now. ;)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 03, 2008, 11:45:24
..... this may be a case of growth.....
Problem with growth is that it's a two edged sword. iDNet coming under a spam attack means they're now sufficiently well known to be on the radar. Good for business since a growth in numbers means they are more secure. A Bad Thing™, in that being better known/more successful, means you attract all sorts of undesirables along with the 'good' ones.
Sadly, I think this might be something of a 'coming of age' for them. A sign they've 'arrived', but also one that now they're playing in a harsher environment.
I don't have any doubt they'll succeed, but possibly a hard lesson. I should add that I wish them every success - they deserve it.
I think maybe one of the bigger, nastier isp's have done this.. After all They don't like competition when it is superior to their own service (s). >:D
Hi Sebt
Our border mail servers will be storing the mail destined for smtp.idnet.com for 72 hours.
Regards
Simon
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Jul 03, 2008, 15:05:07
Hi Sebt
Our border mail servers will be storing the mail destined for smtp.idnet.com for 72 hours.
Regards
Simon
Thanks for that info, that is good news. I was getting a bit worried as I was waiting for something since yesterday evening.
Will things be running within the 72 hour period? A assume so.
We can only hope, Malc.
Would mail forwarding associated with an idnet.com address been similarly affected?
Yes, Steve, it has to get 'into the box' before it can be forwarded.
Thought so, just thinking ahead for next time >:D
IDNet have said they will rectify whatever has caused this issue, so hopefully there won't be a 'next time', but the priority at the moment it getting services up and running again, which is obviously taking much longer than anyone anticipated.
Im sweating on a few Emails like a lot of you here,I must have been lucky with tiscrapi but in the whole 5 years I was there never in this position,saying that my faith in Idnet remains and despite other incidents I wont be too hasty.it will get fixed and hopefully we can move on lessons learned.
Thanks Simon for the last posting,thanks Rik I dont envy any of you all doing what you can in a very difficult time..............nothing technical from me just a word of thanks as I know there must be a hell of a lot of work being caried out and the pressure you are all under must be daunting.... :thnks:
Argh! I know there's nothing anyone can do about it at the moment, but this is so annoying :P Thanks to Rik And Simon for the continuous updates! I know previous ISP's have failed to tell their customers anything when an error occurs!
Sorry we're out of magic wands, Pez - I think we'd all like to put this one behind us. :(
I've not received any e-mails since the 1st, I'm not particularly bothered as I'm not expecting anything important anyway. However I've only given my Idnet e-mail account to close friends, I use a hotmail account for everybody else, but it is a bit embarrassing when one sings the praises of Idnet to one's friends and then maybe have to explain why you've not got their e-mails :-[
Thanks to all those concerned who are trying to resolve the problem :thnks:
It is uncomfortable, John, but we're all stuck with waiting for Trevor to complete his disk check (the equivalent of a Windows CHKDSK). It just seems to be taking an inordinate amount of time. :(
that would be an "fsck", I think....
Quote from: scook94 on Jul 03, 2008, 19:04:38
that would be an "fsck", I think....
I've used 'fsck' on Unix servers but it didn't take very long although that was a few years ago and I expect Idnet's servers drives are orders of magnitude larger.
Thanks again for all your efforts to all concerned.
It is fsck, and Simon D thought it would take 15-30 minutes. :(
Quote from: Rik on Jul 03, 2008, 19:17:23
It is fsck, and Simon D thought it would take 15-30 minutes. :(
Per file? :out:
:rofl:
I can think of another letter to replace the 's' in fsck, and I bet that's been said a lot in IDNet towers over the last 30 hours!
:lol:
Hey ho,
My recollection of UNIX file system "repairs" was it finds what it can and sticks an EOF at the end of it and you have to hope it managed to find all of each file particularly if they were yours! :fingers: ;)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 03, 2008, 19:02:00
It is uncomfortable, John, but we're all stuck with waiting for Trevor to complete his disk check (the equivalent of a Windows CHKDSK). It just seems to be taking an inordinate amount of time. :(
Don't really understand a lot about this subject but would express mild amazement that there's not some kind of progress %age indicator related to this colossal task.
Don't know about Linux, but on Macs - built on BSD Unix - you do fsck several times until it stops reporting errors. Touch wood I've never had to do it...
Just out of curiosity, how many hundreds of gigs is the HD on this server, that takes 2 days to run a diskcheck?
I'm still using the @idnetfreemail service, which seems to be unaffected :)
I never got round to changing when the option of .com came along. Then, I am rather old...
... also, it seems, rather lucky, Zimmer! :D
Quote from: Malc on Jul 03, 2008, 21:36:59
Just out of curiosity, how many hundreds of gigs is the HD on this server, that takes 2 days to run a diskcheck?
Not sure what the capacity is, Malc, but at 16:51 this afternoon, it had apparently checked 67.3M files.
Quote from: Malc on Jul 03, 2008, 21:36:59
Just out of curiosity, how many hundreds of gigs is the HD on this server, that takes 2 days to run a diskcheck?
Would be surprised if it wasn't terabytes...
Quote from: Simon on Jul 03, 2008, 22:00:14
Not sure what the capacity is, Malc, but at 16:51 this afternoon, it had apparently checked 67.3M files.
:eek4:
Thats hell of a lot of files
There's a hell of a lot of emails queueing!
Indeed. And when Trevor does come back, they'll release the emails in a managed quantity to make sure he doesn't get overloaded. Will probably take half a day at least for them all to be put through.
The last thing we want is for them to all be released and crash the server. :eek4:
I hate this thread and I hate this forum. As a result, I just committed myself to £4.99 per month hosting ;)
If I hadn't been here reading, the idea wouldn't have been in my head.
So a special thanks to Rik for costing me yet more dough. :bawl:
Steve
Edit: I just worked it out. That's nearly three drops of petrol :eek4:
:lol:
Maybe Rik will pay for it. :P
Rill is a well renowned expert at spending other people's money. You dropped your guard there, Steve. ;D
Quote from: Simon on Jul 03, 2008, 22:00:14
... also, it seems, rather lucky, Zimmer! :D
Not sure what the capacity is, Malc, but at 16:51 this afternoon, it had apparently checked 67.3M files.
So that's all Rik's posts done then, hopefully they're now doing ours ;D :legpull:
I spoke to James at Idnet today; apparently a number of processes on the attacked server had gone rogue so they chose to reboot it. During reboot the server proceeded into an automatic file check (fsck) which would suggest that the filesystem(s) had been corrupted and/or the journals marked unclean. Either way, from my experience (I work extensively with Linux in addition to various Unix flavours from my past) an fsck operation's time to complete depends on a number of factors: The size and complexity of the filesystem (how many files, folders, etc.) and the filesystem type (typically in Linux this would be ext2/3, XFS or ReiserFS). An fsck taking over 24 hours and counting might suggest a very large ext3 filesystem with millions of small files and directories that has not been metadata cleaned for a long time, with possibly heavy metadata corruption.
Unfortunately, they have no real idea how long this takes and until complete will not know the extent (if any) of the damage. The good news being that apparently there are backups taken every other night, and that incoming email to the (downed) server is buffered by the inbound SMTP gateway, so it will not ping back but just wait for the offending server to come up before delivering all of the buffered mail.
In the meantime, users who want to send outgoing email can use smtp.idnet.net or smtp.idnet.co.uk as the SMTP gateway.
Perheps I should head up to London and assist, though it's rather a long way from cornwall ;)
Seb :)
Thanks, Seb, and I note you haven't received a welcome Karma, so here it is. :)
And one from me too... :karma:
I know there is certainly a lot of small files - as our Simon had said, by yesterday the server had checked 63.3 million files!
Part of the problem, I gather, is the increasing use of IMP, and users not subsequently clearing their mailboxes out. A 100MB can hold a lot of files.
Quote from: D-Dan on Jul 03, 2008, 23:07:10
So a special thanks to Rik for costing me yet more dough. :bawl:
NP, Steve - it's what I do best. ;)
So still no ETA Rik and still a backlog of email building up?
I've heard nothing since yesterday, Gary, I'll be chasing soon.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 08:31:27
Part of the problem, I gather, is the increasing use of IMP,
Is that the same as IMAP?
It's exactly the same as IMAP when I don't type the A, Steve. :blush:
Sorry, this an imp http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/TheLincolnImp.jpg ;D
I see you've been gargling, Steve. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 08:41:06
I've heard nothing since yesterday, Gary, I'll be chasing soon.
Cheers Rik, I have been looking at hosting services and seen pages of horror stories about 1&1 I know you have no issue but with them, but knowing my luck ::) and after the present outage im a little apprehensive, in the past I would have gone for IDNet hosting, but having got it in the ear from a few people i told to use idnet, a: I feel petty awkward now, causing b: my trust to be knocked with them. Hopefully things will move on today as I know they do care and want things up and running for their clients. Seems to me like Trevor needed some maintenance anyway maybe ???
There will have to be an inquest to find out what went wrong with Trevor, Gary, if it ever gets through the self-check.
I would say you get what you pay for with 1&1, but I've had 17 months without a problem paying less than IDNet charge (ie 5 boxes for £0.69pm). Take a look at Purple Cloud, ISTR that Ann uses them.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 08:55:55
There will have to be an inquest to find out what went wrong with Trevor, Gary, if it ever gets through the self-check.
I would say you get what you pay for with 1&1, but I've had 17 months without a problem paying less than IDNet charge (ie 5 boxes for £0.69pm). Take a look at Purple Cloud, ISTR that Ann uses them.
Same as most things in life Rik, cheers for the advice :thumb:
Can you image the average computer user waiting this long for a disk check to complete,I would be sorely tempted to press the power button and say b***** it
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 04, 2008, 09:03:21
Can you image the average computer user waiting this long for a disk check to complete,I would be sorely tempted to press the power button and say b***** it
I have to admit I would get the same feeling ;D
I would have already done it, Steve. :)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 09:05:40
I would have already done it, Steve. :)
Dare I suggest another update from Simon might be a good idea.....
You dare - I'll be phoning shortly. :)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 09:10:24
You dare - I'll be phoning shortly. :)
could drop them a email Rik ;)
I could and you wouldn't know about the new server for another 48 hours. :)
As it happens, I've just spoken to Simon, and Trevor is STILL doing it's file check. He has said they can't wait any longer, and will be taking steps today to utilise another server as a stop gap, so hopefully, some sort of service will be resumed during the day, but it will obviously take a while for the backlog of queueing emails to clear.
Thanks for the update.
Frustration has got the better of me. All businesses need a risk management strategy if they are to continue in business. This morning, IDNet has moved from a strategy of 'business continuity' to one of 'disaster recovery'. I am no IT expert; however, I would have thought that an ISP of IDNet's supposed excellence should have had more robust e-mail systems in place. Alternatively, why did IDNet management not consider booting up an alternative server using the back up disk to provide some measure of e-mail service to customers whilst Trevor's 'ills' were being sorted out? It seems to me that 36 hours have been lost. IDNet customers are unhappy and, as many organizations know to their cost, loss of customer confidence is not easily regained. :shake:
I can't argue with that. :(
Quote from: Ardua on Jul 04, 2008, 09:58:15
Frustration has got the better of me. All businesses need a risk management strategy if they are to continue in business. This morning, IDNet has moved from a strategy of 'business continuity' to one of 'disaster recovery'. I am no IT expert; however, I would have thought that an ISP of IDNet's supposed excellence should have had more robust e-mail systems in place. Alternatively, why did IDNet management not consider booting up an alternative server using the back up disk to provide some measure of e-mail service to customers whilst Trevor's 'ills' were being sorted out? It seems to me that 36 hours have been lost. IDNet customers are unhappy and, as many organizations know to their cost, loss of customer confidence is not easily regained. :shake:
I have to agree, at least the email service will be up and running though, but this should have been implemented a lot sooner, as the op said, the whole issue does not make sense for customer satisfaction, the thing that I wonder is how they would have reacted if the more expensive email services went down, the ones that are domain related or are premium email accounts?
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 09:30:40
I could and you wouldn't know about the new server for another 48 hours. :)
I would as you said new server Rik :tongue:
But I wouldn't. :)
So are we back to "clunker" then, Rik?
I haven't been told, Gary. :(
It would be nice to be on the more reliable main email server, Rik :fingers:
I doubt that's going to happen, but...
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 08:55:55
There will have to be an inquest to find out what went wrong with Trevor, Gary, if it ever gets through the self-check.
I would say you get what you pay for with 1&1,
Sadly, just this one time, not with IDNet. It looks like I am going to loose an important email.
I think a few people are in that boat sadly, Malc :(
Quote from: Killhippie on Jul 04, 2008, 10:56:01
I think a few people are in that boat sadly, Malc :(
I know.
It's not good business for them this. Hopefully from now on they will provide an IDNet, not tiscalli, standard of email service.
I can only agree that this has gone on far too long, and that hopefully, provisions will be put in place to prevent anything like this happening again.
Quote from: Malc on Jul 04, 2008, 10:52:46
Sadly, just this one time, not with IDNet. It looks like I am going to loose an important email.
Based on previous experience, Malc, there will be no data loss, but it may take a while for the backlog to get sorted.
Quote from: Ardua on Jul 04, 2008, 09:58:15
....Alternatively, why did IDNet management not consider booting up an alternative server using the back up disk to provide some measure of e-mail service to customers whilst Trevor's 'ills' were being sorted out?
As others have said, doing fsck on a disk does not give any indication of progress. It might have done 5% or 50% - nobody knows. As a result the tendency is to wait 'just a little bit longer', which, as we've seen can become a very long time. With hindsight it would have been better to put a standby in operation, but hindsight is always exact. No doubt this will come out in any internal review.
Quote from: Ardua on Jul 04, 2008, 09:58:15
....as many organizations know to their cost, loss of customer confidence is not easily regained. :shake:
Although short term there may be some loss of confidence, the fact remains that iDNet is a solid company which tries to offer a good product and look after its customers. It has done this for some time and deservedly gained a good reputation. No company on earth is immune to the occasional failure and I doubt that long term the damage will be too serious.
Agreed Simon, I pay for mail hosting from what I believe to be one of the most reliable providers on the net, and this whole sad collapse of a backbone feature, which email is, should not have dragged on so long. I just hope changes are made to stop this ever happening again.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 11:03:18
Based on previous experience, Malc, there will be no data loss, but it may take a while for the backlog to get sorted.
??? ???
Taken from the post on the welcome page
At this point, there will be some data loss - what will be on the new server will be the last backup
before the failure. IDNet will be recovering data from the old server as soon as possible.
Jul 04, 2008 - 09:20
Yep, because they're going to have to restore a backup onto a new server. :(
I guess there's always the possibility that Trevor will come back to life and they can recover the emails not contained in the backup, but we'll just have to say (that's just what I think, not what IDNet have said!).
Quote from: Tacitus on Jul 04, 2008, 11:04:10
As others have said, doing fsck on a disk does not give any indication of progress. It might have done 5% or 50% - nobody knows. As a result the tendency is to wait 'just a little bit longer', which, as we've seen can become a very long time. With hindsight it would have been better to put a standby in operation, but hindsight is always exact. No doubt this will come out in any internal review.
Although short term there may be some loss of confidence, the fact remains that iDNet is a solid company which tries to offer a good product and look after its customers. It has done this for some time and deservedly gained a good reputation. No company on earth is immune to the occasional failure and I doubt that long term the damage will be too serious.
I have two problems with that, Tac. fsck does give a file count, so could that not have been checked against the latest backup?
Secondly, this is the second hardware issue with Trevor in 9 months, with two other major delay episodes due to spam. Surely a review should have already taken place and contingency plans created?
I think 44 hours is beyond waiting past the common sense threshold with fsck really when you have the ability to get it up and running with another server, but that's just my opinion
Quote from: Malc on Jul 04, 2008, 11:06:20
At this point, there will be some data loss - what will be on the new server will be the last backup
before the failure.
but...
IDNet will be recovering data from the old server as soon as possible.
I just wonder how many other ISP's would be so concerned about data loss? Is it normal practise for an ISP to back up their mail server?I could ask tiscali but I'd be waiting as long for a reply.
Quote from: Simon on Jul 04, 2008, 11:01:33
I can only agree that this has gone on far too long, and that hopefully, provisions will be put in place to prevent anything like this happening again.
Hopefully? - to many businesses, like mine, email is mission critical. Hopefully doesn't enter in to it. We expect statements like "provisions will be put in place etc..". While there are no guarantees in life (apart from death and taxes) using terms like "hopefully" does not fill me with confidence.
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 04, 2008, 11:11:38
I just wonder how many other ISP's would be so concerned about data loss? Is it normal practise for an ISP to back up their mail server?I could ask tiscali but I'd be waiting as long for a reply.
Any ISP worth their salt should be backing up their servers daily, Steve. The problem with a mail server is that it's a moving target, it literally changes by the second, hence I think recovery will be in two stages - this will mainly impact people using IMAP.
Quote from: batsys on Jul 04, 2008, 11:11:48
Hopefully? - to many businesses, like mine, email is mission critical. Hopefully doesn't enter in to it. We expect statements like "provisions will be put in place etc..". While there are no guarantees in life (apart from death and taxes) using terms like "hopefully" does not fill me with confidence.
What package are you on, Batsys? Welcome to the forum. :welc: :karma:
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 04, 2008, 11:11:38
I just wonder how many other ISP's would be so concerned about data loss? Is it normal practise for an ISP to back up their mail server?I could ask tiscali but I'd be waiting as long for a reply.
Perhaps IDNet
can because of their relatively small size. Maybe it's a lot more difficult for larger ISPs. But I don't know, perhaps they do as well.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 11:10:58
but...
IDNet will be recovering data from the old server as soon as possible.
Right, I understood that to mean up to the last restore point, :oops: my mistake then
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 04, 2008, 11:11:38
I just wonder how many other ISP's would be so concerned about data loss? Is it normal practise for an ISP to back up their mail server?I could ask tiscali but I'd be waiting as long for a reply.
That's not the point, this is IDNet not tiscali thats why people pay a pemium for them as an ISP or Host service, so this should not have been the case at all, its not a comparison you can really make here and as Sebby said the bigger ISP's have much more traffic and it would probably be impossible to make a recovery on that scale.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 11:14:52
What package are you on, Batsys? Welcome to the forum. :welc: :karma:
We're on Business Broadband Max
:welc: :karma:
Quote from: Killhippie on Jul 04, 2008, 11:16:53
That's not the point, this is IDNet not tiscali thats why people pay a pemium for them as an ISP or Host service, so this should not have been the case at all, its not a comparison you can really make here and as Sebby said the bigger ISP's have much more traffic and it would probably be impossible to make a recovery on that scale.
I suppose its easy for me to be flippant as idnet.com email loss is of very little consequence to me. I would be upset if my email service hosted elsewhere was in similar straits.
Quote from: batsys on Jul 04, 2008, 11:17:54
We're on Business Broadband Max
Unfortunately, that uses the 'free' mail. Ideally, you should be on the idnet.co.uk package at £4pm - that's suffered no downtime. If you are running your own domain, and I assume you are, this package would b the best one:
http://www.idnet.net/solutions/filtereddomainmail.jsp
Batsys, hello, and welcome. :)
I have to use the word 'hopefully' because it's not my business, and as a member of this forum, I cannot guarantee what stance IDNet will take on this, but again, can reiterate that I *hope* they will take preventative measures, and feel sure that they will.
Simon,
Sorry I didn't notice your .sig. Next time I'll look before I leap!
We're in the same straits as you, Batsys. :(
I thought long and hard about using IDNET as my email service versus other options. For me it is a real chore changing email ID's and it takes a couple of days to update all the services I use. Moving to IDNET mail was the third such change in a year. My rationale was that any ISP that can manage reliable uncontended broadband should be able to deliver a faultless email service. Moreover, I had noticed there had been a brief mail outage, which can happen in the best regulated organisations. Lessons learned I thought. The adage goes; once is unfortunate twice is careless. However, four times is well below par for a premium priced ISP. More worrying is discovering that email is not on a dedicated server. The implication is that resources are a bit tight. I think we need some assurances that this is going to be the last email failure. I strikes me IDNET customers are technically quite savvy and will not tolerate excuses but vote with the feet.
The level of customer loyalty thus far achieved by IDNET is spectacular. Just don't blow it by not attending to the basics. Oh, and an apology might be in order.
Well put, Dave. Knowing IDNet, they will be extremely disappointed and upset about this, but I'd imagine they are feeling such great pressure that an apology will have to follow.
Well said, what I suspect most of us are thinking Dave :thumb:
I agree. The staff are finding it impossible to defend this situation, we are customers too. :(
The trick is not to defend problems like this, but to embrace them as opportunities. It is a chance to show customers in the fragile technological world that IDNET can handle disasters, learn and become stronger as a result.
When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 11:09:34
I have two problems with that, Tac. fsck does give a file count, so could that not have been checked against the latest backup?
Fair point Rik
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 11:09:34
Secondly, this is the second hardware issue with Trevor in 9 months, with two other major delay episodes due to spam. Surely a review should have already taken place and contingency plans created?
I can't really argue with that, but my original point remains, nobody is completely immune to failure. However, if as you say all of these problems have been with this particular machine then you're absolutely right some sort of contingency plan should have been in operation. One thing we (or I) don't know, is whether it is the same physical machine or whether the original Trevor was replaced 9 months ago.
To be honest I really should keep out as it's not my business - I'm not even on iDNet!
Quote from: Malc on Jul 04, 2008, 11:52:36
Well said, what I suspect most of us are thinking Dave :thumb:
I am very dissappointed with all of this just had a problem with Ebay and if I had not have signed in it could have been a bigger issue.Im not in business so only small fry in the scheme of things but have some very pressing issues going on with builders and lawyers and Drs and such also there is at least 2 may be 3 which could mean a lot to us.like I have said all small stuff in comparison with some of you but just as important.I will confess I have been looking at changing this morning I am not angry just greatly dissappointed in that the very basic things which are integral to the service I am paying for are not there and its not good at all from my point.......If I have to pay out again for another Email provider that would take my monthly outlay to a level which would not reflect the service or in my case value for money :'(
It's the same machine, Tac, only the HDs were replaced in October.
Can't argue with any of the above. :(
All I can say is that we have been told that IDNet hope to resume email services today, but there will be gaps until the data can be recovered from the sick server.
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jul 04, 2008, 12:10:17
I am very dissappointed with all of this just had a problem with Ebay and if I had not have signed in it could have been a bigger issue.Im not in business so only small fry in the scheme of things but have some very pressing issues going on with builders and lawyers and Drs and such also there is at least 2 may be 3 which could mean a lot to us.like I have said all small stuff in comparison with some of you but just as important.I will confess I have been looking at changing this morning I am not angry just greatly dissappointed in that the very basic things which are integral to the service I am paying for are not there and its not good at all from my point.......If I have to pay out again for another Email provider that would take my monthly outlay to a level which would not reflect the service or in my case value for money :'(
I understand your situation, I have been waiting for emails regarding doctors etc, but have decided to go with filtered domainmail with idnet, its expensive maybe but I know i will get uk contact and a more robust email client than the .com, and my monthly outlay with O2 is only £7.50 I don't mind the extra on top per year, and I like IDNEts quick answer telephone support system with no outsourcing to Borneo >:D I can see your point however very clearly and as you say you should not have to do this, you expect email to work, but I do think your own domain is probably a safer option and one you can take with you anywhere.
Come on now, this is serious, people are talking about deserting.
When this is fixed, they are going to need some REAL reassurance, platitudes will not suffice.
I have used a Gmail account for over 3 years and have never had any problems with it. I use it for my main email business stuff but I also use Idnet .com mail for personal and trusted contacts. So far I have never had any spam form Gmail as they have very good filters, there is a large storage are as well and excellent search facilities. You get no adverts etc in your emails and you can set it up to use Outlook Express (or any other client) to send and deliver from your machine just like Idnet email does. If you get anGmail acoount then it doesn't matter which ISP you are with as it is consistant. Best of all it is FREE and no conditions attatched.
Just thought it might be of interest.
www.gmail.com
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 12:21:55
It's the same machine, Tac, only the HDs were replaced in October.
Just to prove no-one's immune take a look at this. Clook are similar to iDNet, small outfit, highly reliable with great customer loyalty. One of their reseller servers (the premium ones) went down and it was 24 hours before service was restored.
http://www.clook.info/forum/showthread.php?t=7156
Every step was done in public so customers, current and prospective could see what was going on. As you'll see there were some seriously unhappy customers.
When Trevor failed last time, Tac, there was a general understanding that things do go wrong from time to time. A second failure in nine months, plus the two sets of spam delays is a bit harder to accept, however. :(
Quote from: talos on Jul 04, 2008, 12:30:47
Come on now, this is serious, people are talking about deserting.
But for all the hassle of MAC codes, looking for a new ISP etc, I suspect more people would be doing it rather than talking :-\
Last update 9.20am said a few hours.
How long is a few hours?
Quote from: cavillas on Jul 04, 2008, 12:31:48
I have used a Gmail account for over 3 years and have never had any problems with it. I use it for my main email business stuff but I also use Idnet .com mail for personal and trusted contacts. So far I have never had any spam form Gmail as they have very good filters, there is a large storage are as well and excellent search facilities. You get no adverts etc in your emails and you can set it up to use Outlook Express (or any other client) to send and deliver from your machine just like Idnet email does. If you get anGmail acoount then it doesn't matter which ISP you are with as it is consistant. Best of all it is FREE and no conditions attatched.
Just thought it might be of interest.
www.gmail.com
I have googlemail also but get some spam, its caught fast, but some companies dont mix well with it I found, only a few, I think I just want a more personal address now, I just use googlemail that for web based companies etc, nothing private.
Quote from: Malc on Jul 04, 2008, 12:38:42
Last update 9.20am said a few hours. How long is a few hours?
No-one has bothered to tell me, Malc. :(
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 12:37:09
When Trevor failed last time, Tac, there was a general understanding that things do go wrong from time to time. A second failure in nine months, plus the two sets of spam delays is a bit harder to accept, however. :(
I don't disagree Rik, it's impossible to defend really :(
We can only hope the long term damage is not too severe.
Indeed, but I think this has been a PR disaster and needs some positive action to reduce the damage.
Quote from: cavillas on Jul 04, 2008, 12:31:48
...Best of all it is FREE and no conditions attatched.
Nothing is free and are you
really happy for Google to store your mail forever considering their almost limitless capacity for cross-referencing?
Think about the day they take over Micro$oft - there'll be no hiding place then ;)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 12:45:57
Indeed, but I think this has been a PR disaster and needs some positive action to reduce the damage.
Starting with some feed back more than twice a day, and an apology.
Most people here, myself included, have supported and defended them on here against any criticism in the past, many many times. And been very loyal.
Now we get silence.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 12:45:57
Indeed, but I think this has been a PR disaster and needs some positive action to reduce the damage.
Couldn't agree more. I think you need two stages in PR terms, but the first thing is to get some sort of service up and running. Then you need to get the PR upfront. People generally don't mind things going wrong provided they know exactly what is being done to sort it, together with regular progress reports.
First thing is a full explanation of what has gone wrong and why, together with a full apology. Add to that what continuing steps are being taken to restore the status quo. Couple this with regular progress reports. To be honest something must have gone badly wrong as they seemed to be pretty good for that sort of thing. I take Clook as the exemplar. They put their hands up and regular progress reports appear on the forum.
Next stage, probably in a few days when they've had time for analysis, an announcement of how the mail service is being revamped and reorganised. I suspect this will cost them money for additional servers etc, but that's up to them.
As you say a complete PR disaster.
Quote from: Tacitus on Jul 04, 2008, 12:55:39
Next stage, probably in a few days when they've had time for analysis, an announcement of how the mail service is being revamped and reorganised. I suspect this will cost them money for additional servers etc, but that's up to them.
I doubt they will put in new servers, the cost for return may be prohibitive, I imagine a revamp of Trevor but it would be good to take other hosted services off that server.
Quote from: rumi on Jul 04, 2008, 12:55:03
Nothing is free and are you really happy for Google to store your mail forever considering their almost limitless capacity for cross-referencing?
Google are currently having to give up all youtube logs and who has watched it.
One day ours, or America's snoopy gvmnts will demand google to supply all stored emails.
I would not be happy with that.
For all the information gathering I have just registered and got a GMail account set up and its even got my full name.all I want is to have a Email service which will be there when I need it,Thanks Alf :karmic:
This takes us back 2-3 years when many of us migrated here from F2s. We used to think that there wasnt an ISP that could touch them for speed and service.(Remember how we used to boast how good they were and recommend them on the various forums) Then things like service and speed started to suffer. I see a similar pattern occurring now with IDnet. Fan boys posting favourable reviews everywhere, lots of 'come overs' and the company starts to struggle because maybe it cant cope with the influx of extra clients.
I can remember posting at the time on F2support that it would all end in tears and Ive been thinking the same recently about IDnet. I sincerely hope that Im wrong.
As for the comments about Gmail accounts. I know of several legal firms who will not correspond with clients using their Gmail or Hotmail addresses.
As of now Im not looking to move ISPs but it needs to be resolved today or I'll be off.
Ian
It's certainly possible, Ian. A year ago or so, they were quite unknown. I sincerely hope they are not heading in that direction...
I think IDNet recognise their growth, and have been taking precautions such as recently upgrading routers. I also know they are planning for at least six months from now.
Hopefully, some of this planning will involve role dedicated servers and better DR procedures.
Quote from: Lance on Jul 04, 2008, 13:24:41
I think IDNet recognise their growth, and have been taking precautions such as recently upgrading routers. I also know they are planning for at least six months from now.
Wouldn't it be a good idea if they shared some of this with their customers, so they get some idea of where the business is going? I appreciate they couldn't go into too much detail but something 'to rally the troops' might not be a bad idea, particularly in the light of present circumstances.
I agree, Tac, not just as a rallying call, but to stop those who are thinking about moving on by offering them a reassurance that they have no need to do so.
Frustration, is the key to all of this. It is frustrating to all of us not having Email (especially those who are waiting on vital details from Hospital or Solicitors or business etc) but it must be also very frustrating for IDNet to see the damage it has done to their Servers. I'm sure they didn't want this to happen but were they have failed miserably is not updating everybody on the progress they are making and when they expect to up and running. This is something well within their control and in my opinion they have failed.
As Rik has said, this is a PR disaster and there was no need for it to be.
Come on IDNet, when do you expect this to be fixed or partially fixed?.....we know you can do better!!!
I'm sure that at this moment, they are concentrating their efforts on getting the email service back up and running. Once things are less hectic, I would expect them to offer a full explanation of what has happened, and what they intend to do as future prevention of any such occurrence.
What they share with customers as far as future planning goes, is obviously up to them, but I agree, some degree of openness would be a positive PR move.
I've had no further updates, Harry, sorry. :(
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 13:44:07
I agree, Tac, not just as a rallying call, but to stop those who are thinking about moving on by offering them a reassurance that they have no need to do so.
TBH Rik it would have been just about possible to get your MAC and be signed up and running with Zen/Newnet etc in the time that Trevor has been AWOL....
A thought that had not escaped me... ;) We're at 49 hours now and counting, and it's almost 5 hours since I've received any updates.
Just want to go back to the original thread for a minute to say two things --
One, obviously it is annoying to have the email down for so long. IDnet certainly loses points for that.
BUT
IDnet scores some points back by having this forum. By reading posts here, the light bulb went off, and I was able to redirect nearly all of my email to a gmail account. Instead of losing 2 days, I lost about 4 hours of communication.
So, once again, thanks to all of you on this forum.
I will stay with IDnet as much for the helpful folks here as for the service. Which, apart from this significant snaffu, has been excellent.
And welcome to Noelle. :-)
best wishes,
LinLin
I believe, at the moment, Simon at Idnet has lost the will to live but they are still all working furioously to get things up and running. I think we should all remember that mechanical stuff can malfunction and software is always liable to corruption and pigheadedness, not only that the Idnet team are still only human.
I also believe that camp beds are being put in place next to the servers ;D ;D :whip:
Having just spoken to Simon, I agree with you Alf, and the staff at IDNet have my sympathy for their plight. OTOH, their customers have been without service for more than two days...
New update.
Unfortunately, they are having problems getting the backup software to talk to the new server :shake: :sigh:
Sounds like the wrong time to be finding this out.
Indeed, Steve. :(
Is the link to kitz site up for July yet?
Could be less 5's this time.
Its is.
To sum up then, IDNet has neither a robust business continuity plan nor a disaster recovery plan that works. I fear that I may be looking elsewhere for ISP service.
I think that's clear. Perhaps, given their relatively small size, there was a time when they didn't need one. Now, they do, and I'm sure they know that.
I can't confirm that - you may want to talk to them before making a move. As I type, there are signs that the mail server is trying to come to life, I'll be on the phone shortly.
Quote from: Ardua on Jul 04, 2008, 14:43:37
To sum up then, IDNet has neither a robust business continuity plan nor a disaster recovery plan that works. I fear that I may be looking elsewhere for ISP service.
Your nickname seems terribly apt at the moment!
Quote from: Ardua on Jul 04, 2008, 14:43:37
To sum up then, IDNet has neither a robust business continuity plan nor a disaster recovery plan that works. I fear that I may be looking elsewhere for ISP service.
So you are willing to move to a sh*ttier ISP just because of a hardware issue thats caused email to go down?
Have my job and you get it everyday. Things happen, nothing you can really do about it.
In my job i have to deal with hardware and software failures.. Lucky the software part isn't a problem as i know what i'm doing when it comes to code.
Why don't you just get a cheapo email host and stick with IDnet, a good broadband company?
Getting this now on email
There was a problem logging onto your mail server. Your User Name was rejected. Account: 'pop3.idnet.com', Server: 'pop3.idnet.com', Protocol: POP3, Server Response: '-ERR Plaintext authentication disallowed on non-secure connections.', Port: 110, Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 0x800CCC90, Error Number: 0x800CCC91
Have been getting similar over the last 48+ hours but [Your user name rejected] is a new one on me.
Can I presume that I shouldn't fiddle with Outlook express pro tem and that this is to be expected at the mo.?
I can get as far as recieving and sending but log in details are not accepted at the moment form Outlook Express. Getting there. ;D :thumb: :fingers:
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 14:45:08
I can't confirm that - you may want to talk to them before making a move. As I type, there are signs that the mail server is trying to come to life, I'll be on the phone shortly.
I think you're correct, Rik, I am getting this error message now which I wasn't a short time ago. :)
Task 'xxxx@idnet.com - Receiving' reported error (0x800CCC92) : 'Your e-mail server rejected your login. Verify your user name and password in your account properties. Under Tools, click E-mail accounts. The server responded: -ERR Plaintext authentication disallowed on non-secure connections.'
So it looks like the new server is up, but the accounts haven't been transferred to it yet.
Quote from: sobranie on Jul 04, 2008, 14:49:54
Getting this now on email
There was a problem logging onto your mail server. Your User Name was rejected. Account: 'pop3.idnet.com', Server: 'pop3.idnet.com', Protocol: POP3, Server Response: '-ERR Plaintext authentication disallowed on non-secure connections.', Port: 110, Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 0x800CCC90, Error Number: 0x800CCC91
Have been getting similar over the last 48+ hours but [Your user name rejected] is a new one on me.
Can I presume that I shouldn't fiddle with Outlook express pro tem and that this is to be expected at the mo.?
Leave well alone, Rich, the server hasn't been 'opened' yet to avoid a rush and crash.
Quote from: Sheltieuk on Jul 04, 2008, 14:53:00
I think you're correct, Rik, I am getting this error message now which I wasn't a short time ago. :)
Task 'xxxx@idnet.com - Receiving' reported error (0x800CCC92) : 'Your e-mail server rejected your login. Verify your user name and password in your account properties. Under Tools, click E-mail accounts. The server responded: -ERR Plaintext authentication disallowed on non-secure connections.'
See above, Ray.
Quote from: scook94 on Jul 04, 2008, 14:47:24
Your nickname seems terribly apt at the moment!
Hmm. I think a few people might be more inclined to the
ad astra bit as tempers start to fray...
Or these days, Ad Asda. ;D
I wish I was at home checking mine.
Come to think of it, I just wish I was at home.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 14:17:42
..........the staff at IDNet have my sympathy for their plight. OTOH, their customers have been without service for more than two days...
I think everyone can agree with that Rik. It must be very dispiriting for them at present :)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 14:58:40
Leave well alone, Rich, the server hasn't been 'opened' yet to avoid a rush and crash.
Thanks Rik.
Latest..
Accounts are being restored as I type, and you will note your email client will start asking
you for your password. Just cancel, this is because the server is not yet 'open'.
At this point, there will be some data loss - what will be on the new server will be the last backup
before the failure. IDNet will be recovering data from the old server as soon as possible
Looking good... :fingers: :fingers:
Quote from: Malc on Jul 04, 2008, 15:10:52
Looking good... :fingers: :fingers:
Or "better". :P
I'm at Home ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :food: :cheers: :sleepy:
Still dead for me having the same message as for the last few days, but I guess it will take some time :(
The server is live but has been 'ring fenced' until the restore is complete.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 15:28:39
The server is live but has been 'ring fenced' until the restore is complete.
is that something you should not wee on as its electrified Rik?
Safety would suggest that. ;D
I suppose a "ring fence" may be better protection against a spam attack ;D
I thought it was a bent jeweller. :)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 16:05:28
I thought it was a bent jeweller. :)
I'm not saying what I thought it was :zip:
Does that me with the retirement of poor old clunker we are back to where we were a few hours ago :(
Yes, but they are already working on a bigger and better box, Steve, so keep your fingers crossed. :fingers:
Can anyone say if things will be back today,and if not will it mean after the weekend it must be me but as its Friday all the things mentioned will now get carried over the weekend :shake:
I suspect the only thing getting the weekend off is poor old clunker
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 04, 2008, 16:21:14
I suspect the only thing getting the weekend off is poor old clunker
I agree, I imagine they will work on this now till its up and running, as customers have been without email too long already
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jul 04, 2008, 16:19:40
Can anyone say if things will be back today,and if not will it mean after the weekend it must be me but as its Friday all the things mentioned will now get carried over the weekend :shake:
No, I can't David, but IDNet staff will be in over the weekend. If services are not restored by 13:00 tomorrow, mail will be returned to sender with an 'unable to deliver' tag, and they will have to re-send.
And possibly my peace of mind perhaps Im no better for all of this at all to be honest Im gutted by it and looking at the time it will now prove too late for me to do anything until Monday thats if the backlog is cleared which I doubt.
Everyone has worked hard etc but as an end user and for waht I pay I had hoped for better.... :mad:
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 16:27:11
No, I can't David, but IDNet staff will be in over the weekend. If services are not restored by 13:00 tomorrow, mail will be returned to sender with an 'unable to deliver' tag, and they will have to re-send.
I can guess where this is going and maybe I should post in rant and rave.for all thats been said the end result is I certainly do not feel valued by IDnet.I have set up a GMail.too late for contacting anyone to let them know
and if any sites I have visited cant verify my EMail address this will cause even more problems for me.who is going to believe I have not provided a hooky EMail if it gets bounced...... :rant2:
I sympathise, David. OTOH, IDNet do understand the anger people are feeling, and are not attempting to defend what has happened - they got it wrong, they plan to ensure it never happens again.
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jul 04, 2008, 16:34:18
and if any sites I have visited cant verify my EMail address this will cause even more problems for me.who is going to believe I have not provided a hooky EMail if it gets bounced...... :rant2:
It won't for 72 hours - even then, it will come back as a genuine address with a delivery problem.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 16:34:47
I sympathise, David. OTOH, IDNet do understand the anger people are feeling, and are not attempting to defend what has happened - they got it wrong, they plan to ensure it never happens again.
I never thought I would say this about IDnet,but this last statement could come straight from DowningStreet.
No doubt I will get trodden on,but I am referring to IDnet and not you or anyone else here my faith in these promises is well and truly dented and my big fear and it is real,what if this happened to my connection ?Im concerned now about the quality maybe its unfounded but it concerns me greatly
Glad to see that Idnet has put something up to notify us all what is going on. I think they need to keep that updated on the hour until this crisis has past. IDNet, just a wee bit of advice, you need to bring your customers with you through a crisis and good communication will help. I believe that people will have more sympathy with you and your plight if you let them know what is happening. I'm not saying that we need to know every nut and bolt of the problem but we as customers need to be kept informed.
I have every sympathy for Rik and Simon who help run this board they are as much frustrated as anyone with what has happened.....it's not their fault nor is it IDNet.......remember, it is some low life who is bored and has thought what a great laugh it would be if we bombarded IDNet with Spam.
All those that are talking of moving because of this, should first stop and think.....were are you going to move too? I have been with IDNet a couple of months now and I am very happy with the set up (except for this hiccup) I have been with a number of Internet Service Providers and IDNet (IMHO) beat everyone of them hands down...........I dread to think if this had happened to either Plusnet or Eclipse what they would have done............ probably shut up shop gone home for the week and blamed everybody but themselves for the problem.
I know that IDNet are not perfect but they are a lot better than any of those that I have just mentioned. So everybody, lets ease of their case and let them get the work done and IDNet keep us informed of what is happening......please
Harry
PS Still no Email working on my PC
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jul 04, 2008, 16:48:18
I never thought I would say this about IDnet,but this last statement could come straight from DowningStreet.
No doubt I will get trodden on,but I am referring to IDnet and not you or anyone else here my faith in these promises is well and truly dented and my big fear and it is real,what if this happened to my connection ?Im concerned now about the quality maybe its unfounded but it concerns me greatly
I can understand your fears, David. OTOH, I've been a customer for 21 months and my connection has never faltered. The mail server did go down in October, but Clunker was pressed into service and within a few hours things had normalised. What happened this time remains to be discovered, but it seemed a reasonable decision to run the disk check when asked - no-one expected it to take more than two days. However, once you start down that road, you keep expecting it to finish any minute, we've all been there. Clearly a hot-swap server is needed and Clunker is no longer up to the job. I am sure that there will be a thorough inquest, and I expect that IDNet will come up with the right answers - they know that keeping their customers depends on that, hence the programme of upgrades that have been running over the past few months.
Letchworth and Downing Street are well separated, David, keep the faith. :)
I agree with your points Harry The guys holding it together on this forum are the cream of the lot but as a mere end user I only know that I pay for a service and if that service is put under threat by whoever I would hope that there are lines of defnce and back up,and remember I know next to zilch about this stuff and I am sure I am not alone in not wanting to worry about how to maintain nor run a service.I just pay for what I get.
Thats it from a consumer point of view.I dont need it complicating with servers and god knows what thats why I pay the extra to be free of all this stuff
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jul 04, 2008, 16:50:09
Glad to see that Idnet has put something up to notify us all what is going on.
That was/is me Harry. ;)
QuoteI have every sympathy for Rik and Simon who help run this board they are as much frustrated as anyone with what has happened.....it's not their fault nor is it IDNet.......remember, it is some low life who is bored and has thought what a great laugh it would be if we bombarded IDNet with Spam.
Don't forget Lance and Sebby. :)
QuotePS Still no Email working on my PC
No, they've had to move to a new box, Clunker, who helped us out last year, can no longer cope with the load we generate.
Please may we offer our apologies to everyone for the trouble and inconvenience that this downtime with mail.idnet.com has been causing (especially to those expecting medical results and important messages).
We screwed up!
Where we had a backup server waiting in the wings to take over the service in the event of failure it is now apparent that, though that machine was up to the job last year, it is not now.
We have more powerful machines that are suitable candidates to run this service. However, we need to move their services that are currently live onto other equipment. This may take us some time. We will be working on this tonight and over the weekend and expect to resume mail.idnet.com service before Monday.
We thought we were well prepared for disaster recovery, we obviously weren't as prepared as we thought we were. In 12 yrs of running email servers our biggest outage before this was a couple of hrs or so. We've never experienced a failure like this before.
We will learn from this and we will be taking all measures to ensure that this won't happen again.
Apologies from all of us at IDNet.
Thanks, Simon. :)
Thanks for the update, Simon. Try and sleep occasionally. :)
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Jul 04, 2008, 17:04:20
We will learn from this and we will be taking all measures to ensure that this won't happen again.
Apologies from all of us at IDNet.
Yep, same here
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jul 04, 2008, 16:58:14
I agree with your points Harry The guys holding it together on this forum are the cream of the lot but as a mere end user I only know that I pay for a service and if that service is put under threat by whoever I would hope that there are lines of defnce and back up,and remember I know next to zilch about this stuff and I am sure I am not alone in not wanting to worry about how to maintain nor run a service.I just pay for what I get.
Thats it from a consumer point of view.I dont need it complicating with servers and god knows what thats why I pay the extra to be free of all this stuff
If some one blew your candle out, would you blame the candle holder or the match? Give Idnet some space this could have happened to any IP and at least they kept us informed and are taking steps to make sure it wont happen again. ;D
Thanks for the update Simon we are all (nearly all) routing for you :eyebrow:
Quote from: Rik on Jul 04, 2008, 17:06:58
Thanks for the update, Simon. Try and sleep occasionally. :)
Agreed. Try to get at least some sleep - that goes for all at iDNet towers. I doubt any of you have had much these last couple of days.
Thanks for the update, Simon. :)
Quote from: Den on Jul 04, 2008, 17:12:45
....at least they kept us informed and are taking steps to make sure it wont happen again. ;D
Thanks for the update Simon we are all (nearly all) routing for you :eyebrow:
Point is Den they didn't, until everything had gone seriously pear shaped and peeps were creating blue murder. I think that was the biggest failure and I don't doubt it's a lesson learned.
As often as not its the PR, or lack of it, that does the most damage.
PS I'm routing for him and I'm not even on iDNet :)
Quote from: Den on Jul 04, 2008, 17:12:45
If some one blew your candle out, would you blame the candle holder or the match? Give Idnet some space this could have happened to any IP and at least they kept us informed and are taking steps to make sure it wont happen again. ;D
Thanks for the update Simon we are all (nearly all) routing for you :eyebrow:
I would use a torch so wind wouldnt be a factor Den.roll on Monday :fingers:
Quote from: Tacitus on Jul 04, 2008, 17:16:43
Point is Den they didn't, until everything had gone seriously pear shaped and peeps were creating blue murder. I think that was the biggest failure and I don't doubt it's a lesson learned.
As often as not its the PR, or lack of it, that does the most damage.
PS I'm routing for him and I'm not even on iDNet :)
I think it is a lesson learned. I'm sure they hoped that Trevor was going to finish it's data check any minute, and as time went on, it was too late to go back. That said, a standby server should have been in place, and after an unreasonable amount of time, the switch could have been made. I'm sure they know that.
Rik
Sorry, I forgot about Lance and Sebby......thanks to everyone running this board for keeping us informed.
Rik so it was you, who put that notice up......well thanks but I wish IDNet were a wee bit more up front in their communication. I hope they are watching this board and keeping a eye to the comments.
badpianoplayer I totally agree with your comments and understand your frustration but I promise you if you think IDNet is bad then you haven't seen anything yet. I was with Plusnet for about 6 months and most of the time I didn't have any Internet and when I did I was throttled to death. When I complained, I was ignored and then told it was my fault. Talk about frustration......I constantly lived in it.
Then I moved to Eclipse and was with them for a couple of years........for the first year or so they were fine. Then they got too big and started the throttling.
Think long and hard before you move because there is some cr*p out there...... please believe me, I have experienced it.
Well said, Harry. :)
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jul 04, 2008, 17:20:50
Think long and hard before you move because there is some cr*p out there...... please believe me, I have experienced it.
Hear Hear !!
JB.
Thanks for the update and I will be thinking about you all this weekend. ;D
Will Miriam be working over the weekend too?, after all someone has to make the tea etc. >:D :hide2: :dig:
Quote from: Sebby on Jul 04, 2008, 17:19:09
..That said, a standby server should have been in place, and after an unreasonable amount of time, the switch could have been made. I'm sure they know that.
Like I've said before Seb, hindsight is always an exact science.
Perhaps the spam filter needs its own spam filter ::) ??? :hehe: :hehe: :grn: :grn: :spoon:
Quote from: Tacitus on Jul 04, 2008, 17:24:08
Like I've said before Seb, hindsight is always an exact science.
Agreed. But at least there's no excuse to make the same mistake again; if they do, I'm sure a lot of people will leave.
I just feel that often in life, we need to make mistakes in order to learn, and that applies here, not that it excuses what has happened. Ultimately, we're only tied in for a month, so anyone that believes they can do better elsewhere can leave. I personally don't. :)
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jul 04, 2008, 17:20:50
Rik so it was you, who put that notice up......well thanks but I wish IDNet were a wee bit more up front in their communication. I hope they are watching this board and keeping a eye to the comments.
They try, Harry, but sometimes they get a bit tied up in fighting the alligators to remember that they set out to drain the swamp. As an ex-PR type, I nag. ;)
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jul 04, 2008, 17:20:50
Rik
Sorry, I forgot about Lance and Sebby......thanks to everyone running this board for keeping us informed.
Rik so it was you, who put that notice up......well thanks but I wish IDNet were a wee bit more up front in their communication. I hope they are watching this board and keeping a eye to the comments.
badpianoplayer I totally agree with your comments and understand your frustration but I promise you if you think IDNet is bad then you haven't seen anything yet. I was with Plusnet for about 6 months and most of the time I didn't have any Internet and when I did I was throttled to death. When I complained, I was ignored and then told it was my fault. Talk about frustration......I constantly lived in it.
Then I moved to Eclipse and was with them for a couple of years........for the first year or so they were fine. Then they got too big and started the throttling.
Think long and hard before you move because there is some cr*p out there...... please believe me, I have experienced it.
I was with Tiscali (enough said) but this has no bearing on this.or how they may have handled it.Thats why I am here with IDnet. :eyebrow:
Simon, Thanks for that "We Screwed Up"..........I like your honesty and I'm sure everybody understands your predicament but you must keep customers informed otherwise you will lose some them to inferior providers and I am sure you will agree with me that is in no ones interest.
Thanks again to you and all your staff at IDNet for all your hard work to try and resolve this disaster.
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jul 04, 2008, 17:36:27
Simon, Thanks for that "We Screwed Up"..........I like your honesty and I'm sure everybody understands your predicament but you must keep customers informed otherwise you will lose some them to inferior providers and I am sure you will agree with me that is in no ones interest.
Thanks again to you and all your staff at IDNet for all your hard work to try and resolve this disaster.
:iagree: Harry, well said. :) :thumb:
PS also :karma: for some good, well thought out and balanced posts. ;)
There was someone called Trevor just viewing this board ???
No.........Can't be
You'd be amazed at what he gets up to when he thinks we're not looking, Ted. ;D
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jul 04, 2008, 17:36:27
Simon, Thanks for that "We Screwed Up"..........I like your honesty and I'm sure everybody understands your predicament but you must keep customers informed otherwise you will lose some them to inferior providers and I am sure you will agree with me that is in no ones interest.
Thanks again to you and all your staff at IDNet for all your hard work to try and resolve this disaster.
Karmically put, Harry. :thumb:
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jul 04, 2008, 17:35:26
I was with Tiscali (enough said) but this has no bearing on this.or how they may have handled it.Thats why I am here with IDnet. :eyebrow:
Exactly, so you know what is bad......Tiscali were involved with the disaster of LLU on Eclipse. If you think Tiscali were bad then you haven't seen anything yet........Plusnet.............rubbish. You say this has no bearing on this but I think it does when you and others are thinking of moving. I really don't want you or others to move to a terrible Internet Service provider.
My experience of IDNet (yes I know it isn't that long) is that they appear to be honest and if they say they are going to do something then they will do it (not like others in this industry) I do believe them when they say they have learnt a lesson..........so lets all give them a chance..............and if they don't learn from this terrible disaster....then I say, they deserve all that they get.
I have eyes everywhere, so beware! >:D
I have been reading this thread, obviously, as I've been affected like everyone else. I just hope the bug I have at the moment, had nothing to do with it. ;D
I agree with a lot of what has been said and surely, the acid test for IDNet is how they learn from this? I would also add, that I have to say how good the IDNutters, oops Netters are. ;) Rik was very supportive to me a while ago, and I have only good things to say about the forums.
I join in wishing the IDNet team good luck with this issue and that they manage to get some sleep over the weekend.
Hae a stoatin weekend a' fowk.
Kind regards
Trevor
Quote from Simon@idnet earlier today. For outgoing mail service (while smtp.idnet.com is offline) you are welcome to use smtp.idnet.net Perhaps this should made easily visible for those people struggling to send mail.
Consider it in hand, Steve. :)
Wish I hadn't mentioned that all I get is a busy response from smtp.idnet.net ???
It's being checked, Steve, it should work.
It's working now - tested by Beans. ;D
I agree now, but it wasn't working for me 10 mins ago
No, Simon tweaked it a bit to give it more 'headroom' for the extra traffic. :)
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Jul 04, 2008, 17:04:20
We screwed up!
Never got anything wrong then you have never doing anything. An old adage but true.
Enough of us have been round long enough to remember Postal Strikes before email existed.
Almost anyone with a telephone must have experienced a problem sometime or another.
No one ever had a power cut or heard of leaves on railway tracks or overheads being blown down?
Come what's a little email outage? :duck:
I for one could resort at this minute to at least three other webmail clients that are completely independent of IDNet mail systems and I don't do anything crucial from my home account. If your email is crucial surely you have alternative providers? If not and its life or death pick up the phone or nip next door and use theirs. That is as long as you haven't talked them into using IDNet too. If you have perhaps best not do that for a day or two! ;D
I remember days when there was no Telex service when the operator called in sick!
(Tell'em what telex was Rik! :) )
I like my emails in the likes of Outlook Express but webmail is perfectly functional. If you use OE you have your Contacts List/Address Book. OK its a bit more effort but not the end of the world.
What about mail that has been sent to you I hear you say. Well if it is that important they will ever likely send it again. I have let those that contact me most regularly know to copy emails to one of the two Webmail clients that have POP3 severs that feed my OE Inbox as well so I am all right Jack. :thumb:
Good luck Simon, sometimes we all learn a lesson the hard way and in a most unexpected manner, your openness is admirable, I really hope you can get the mail system working before Monday, but whatever happens take care, and don't work all night.....just most of it ;)
Nice honest post from Simon, the human touch. :thumb:
Not some Indian script jockey.
It is appreciated, and hopefully things will be working soon, make sure you have plenty of coffee and coke for the coming night. ;D
Good luck :fingers:
I just informed everyone of any importance to me what was happening, and pointed them to my alternate email addy, simple, sorted :thumb:
I'm sure Idnet didn't plan for this to happen the way it did and I'm sure they are doing their best to get it sorted, it's not the end of the world and there are far worse things going on in life to worry about an email outage.
I can't believe people are threatening to jump ship because of this :shake: come on chaps get real :thumb:
Apology much appreciated Simon, thankyou.
Thanks for your post, Simon, it does mean a lot.
I'd just like to make a point about comments regarding IDNet keeping us informed. Yes, communications could (and I suspect, will) be improved, but any information Rik posts on here, and in the news box on the main index page, has come from IDNet, or even he wouldn't have known about it! ;D I'm sure we've all been in a situation where we are desperately trying to repair something, and hours seem to pass like minutes, so while it can't be denied that "they screwed up", we should perhaps bear in mind that the priority above all else, was to get services up and running again, rather than concentrating on issuing hourly bulletins, especially if there had been no progress since the last update. It was very unfortunate that things just seemed to go from bad to worse, but hey, sh*t happens. :)
Let's just keep our fingers crossed that the things will improve over the weekend. I think we can all rest assured that IDNet are doing all they can to rectify things, and have definitely learned from this episode.
Indeed, Simon. :)
The mail woes are now a news item on TBB (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3610-idnet-e-mail-service-affected-by-spam-attack.html).
Good to see TBB acknowledging IdNetters, it's nice when forums accept each others existence.
I think it deserves to be a news item! It's nice that TB have kept it to the facts only. :)
Quote from: Sebby on Jul 04, 2008, 22:20:22
I think it deserves to be a news item! It's nice that TB have kept it to the facts only. :)
Yes, I think it is a very balanced report.
I've got to admit I was quite surprised that the email wasn't back on yet, it must have been one hell of a spam attack....can't get Monty Python out of my head everytime I read that line.....spamspamspamspamspamspam.
I totally appreciate peoples frustrations where this is their only email account and they are waiting on crucial emails (its amazing how dependent we have become on this media in such a very short period of time), and these things always break when you really do need it the least.
I'm not a religious person but I do believe in SOD and all of his laws and if you don't worship him at least 3 times a week...then he always comes along and stiffs you usually at 5.25pm on a Friday.
All that being said I have to admire the fact that Simon has told the truth of the situation and I for one would rather they did a thorough job and guaranteed the integrity of the email system than do a rush job and it be only half par.
What is also clear is what a sterling job people like Rik and Sebby do here and what a must have service this forum is.
Everyone have a great weekend, try to forget about your emails over the weekend, watch the Grand Prix and Tennis, get out in the garden, have a pint or three and when Monday comes and we wake up to another week another dollar our email (fingers crossed) will be up and running and it will all have been a bad dream...there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home.................
Thanks, Lee. Enjoy your weekend. :)
Quote from: Sebby on Jul 04, 2008, 22:28:14
Thanks, Lee. Enjoy your weekend. :)
Seconded Lee :thumb:
Thirded. ;D
Quote from: Simon on Jul 04, 2008, 22:08:37
Thanks for your post, Simon, it does mean a lot.
I'd just like to make a point about comments regarding IDNet keeping us informed. Yes, communications could (and I suspect, will) be improved, but any information Rik posts on here, and in the news box on the main index page, has come from IDNet, or even he wouldn't have known about it! .............
Simon it was me that was going on about IDNet, keeping us informed.
Look at way this board changed once Simon from IDNet came on the Board and explained what had happened and admitted that they "had screwed up"......people were in general more sympathetic to his plight. That's what I mean about good communication and yes I agree with you he can't post, if nothing has happened but what IDNet has/must do is keep it's customers on board/make them aware of what is happening and what they are going to do about it...........They didn't do that............and in my opinion that was a major failing.
Yes Rik was doing his best at keeping people on this forum informed of what was happening but he was getting some major grief from some people.........totally unfair, I believe.
Anyway, I believe when you take your eye of the ball.......all hell will let loose and it nearly did with people threatening to jump ship......but Simon changed all that with his posting, which was honest and frank (a lot of politicians would learn a lot from that posting....owning up to your failings..........a breath of fresh air.
What needs to happen now is for Idnet to get this matter sorted and as quickly as possible and for them to then write to all their customers and apologise for what happened and explain what steps they have put in place for this to never happen again.............that way they will avert a major exodus
and fourthed ;D :)
Quote from: Sheltieuk on Jul 04, 2008, 22:49:40
and fourthed ;D :)
And sixthted.
Maths never was my strong point (http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/mocat_album/smilies/scratch_one-s_head.gif)
Can't argue with any of that, Harry. :) I was just making the point that any information received by Rik, or any of the forum staff, has come from IDNet, and this is immediately passed on. Of course, we all want to hear from the top, and Simon's post was welcomed and well received in general, and there's no denying that communications such as that make all the difference.
Quote from: Simon on Jul 04, 2008, 23:09:55
Of course, we all want to hear from the top,
I just
knew Gordon Brown was behind this somehow.
Also for anyone that doesn't realise there is this facility, you can setup an RSS feed from Idnet regarding your account that displays your usage on a daily basis and also posts any problems or service upgrades that they may be doing. I find this a very useful resource.
Just go to the customer login section and click the Update RSS feeds link on the left.
Idnet first made me aware of the email problem via this function at 1pm on the 2nd july and it was updated everyday, sometimes up to 3 times in one day...I think that's pretty damn good service.
Nowt wrong with Idnet. If you have any complaints try joining Tiscali.......
Quote from: Malc on Jul 04, 2008, 23:12:22
I just knew Gordon Brown was behind this somehow.
I thought he talked out of the bottom! ;D
Quote from: leehampton on Jul 04, 2008, 23:13:13Idnet first made me aware of the email problem via this function at 1pm on the 2nd july and it was updated everyday, sometimes up to 3 times in one day...I think that's pretty damn good service.
Nowt wrong with Idnet. If you have any complaints try joining Tiscali.......
Thanks, Lee. I think we all get rather spoiled in general by IDNet's good service, and when problems do come along, they hit us hard. That said, there have been several problems over the last 12 months, and hopefully this one, being the most serious, will being home to IDNet, the need for future prevention of any such issues, which Simon promised in his post.
Quote from: leehampton on Jul 04, 2008, 23:13:13
Nowt wrong with Idnet. If you have any complaints try joining Tiscali.......
Don't even go there! I was with them! :mad: :rant2: :eek4: >:(
Quote from: J!ll on Jul 04, 2008, 23:28:00
Don't even go there! I was with them! :mad: :rant2: :eek4: >:(
Does that mean it safe us there now then ? ;)
So...everyone ready to be swarmed with a backlog of emails once the server is back up?
im placing bets on it being back with us tomorrow
im an optimist :D
Quote from: john on Jul 04, 2008, 23:32:05
Does that mean it safe us there now then ? ;)
They will probably have been bought out again by the time we get there, John. ;)
Quote from: mrapoc on Jul 04, 2008, 23:32:19
So...everyone ready to be swarmed with a backlog of emails once the server is back up?
im placing bets on it being back with us tomorrow
im an optimist :D
I wouldn't bet on anything at the moment - the machines appear to be revolting! ;D
Quote from: Simon on Jul 04, 2008, 23:34:33
I wouldn't bet on anything at the moment - the machines appear to be revolting! ;D
Nothing a damp cloth can't resolve. :out:
Quote from: john on Jul 04, 2008, 23:32:05
Does that mean it safe us there now then ? ;)
:whistle:
Quote from: Sebby on Jul 04, 2008, 23:36:56
Nothing a damp cloth can't resolve. :out:
What, soaked in paraffin? ;D
First off, thanks Simon D for the update and apology, both are very much appreciated.
Secondly, i'm extremely pleased by the number of posts which have clearly been written in a well thought about manner. At times like this it is very easy for the world and his dog to start moaning and bitching and threads just turn into mass arguments. That hasn't happened and so to everyone who has posted in a controlled manner, i thank you!
I have to say, I'm rather disappointed with the hypocrisy shown in this thread, with a various threats to jump ship etc. Whilst I appreciate that many people will have been inconvenienced, my grandmother was the first who told me "don't put all your eggs in one basket"
Since the whole email crisis manifested, my only inconvenience has been not being able to send email, something I rectified last night.
Having said that, I pay for, and I get a good broadband service. Extras, such as webspace, emails etc, are a free bonus. I pay for nothing more and nothing less than my connection. The fault in not sending my email was, too a large extent, my own, because I chose to rely on a free additional service. Now I choose not too. I still get what I pay for, which is a good, solid, broadband connection.
If there's anyone here who can hold their hand up and say you have never had any kind of computer problem, than I salute you as the luckiest person on earth. In the meantime, let's give our hosts the benefit of the doubt. They are working damn hard, and suffering a lot of regret, to restore a service that no-one is actually paying for.
Just my 2 cents
Steve
I think the general perception is that email is supplied as part of the package, Steve, as with any other ISP. I don't know of one that doesn't supply a 'free' email account with their broadband packages, but I could well be wrong. That said, the inclusive email provision from IDNet is particularly attractive, and is one of the main reasons why I joined last August. :)
My point is that despite the fact that they all do it, it is still a "free" add on. If you walked out of your door tomorrow morning and someone gave you, and every other passerby willing to talk to him, a free toaster, then when you got home, it failed, would you expect him to fix it for you?
:whistle:
I think it differs from person to person. For me, the email is just a free extra, but that's because I have my own domain and don't use IDNet's email. However, I'd say it's advertised as part of the package, and as you pay a premium price, I think you could reasonably expect the email service to be premium.
I do agree, though, that one shouldn't put all their eggs in one basket. I do so to an extent with my email, and I suppose I'm lucky that I've never had any serious issues - after all, nothing is immune.
It's a lesson learnt for all. For those that do use their IDNet email address primarily, I can completely understand their frustration, and I can see why it could make them want to leave - be it because they've genuinely lost faith in IDNet, or simply because of the sheer frustration. Either way, I hope people won't pack up just yet - I've got a strong feeling that things will change at IDNet to prevent such a long period of downtime occurring again.
Quote from: D-Dan on Jul 05, 2008, 00:24:29
I have to say, I'm rather disappointed with the hypocrisy shown in this thread, with a various threats to jump ship etc. Whilst I appreciate that many people will have been inconvenienced, my grandmother was the first who told me "don't put all your eggs in one basket"
Since the whole email crisis manifested, my only inconvenience has been not being able to send email, something I rectified last night.
Having said that, I pay for, and I get a good broadband service. Extras, such as webspace, emails etc, are a free bonus. I pay for nothing more and nothing less than my connection. The fault in not sending my email was, too a large extent, my own, because I chose to rely on a free additional service. Now I choose not too. I still get what I pay for, which is a good, solid, broadband connection.
If there's anyone here who can hold their hand up and say you have never had any kind of computer problem, than I salute you as the luckiest person on earth. In the meantime, let's give our hosts the benefit of the doubt. They are working damn hard, and suffering a lot of regret, to restore a service that no-one is actually paying for.
Just my 2 cents
Steve
Hi Steve Im confused at some of your points may be I misunderstand,Hyporcrits?in what way would this be?I cant see any hypocricy on anyones posts I thought they are on the whole honest and not too bruising all people on the forum have been rightly praised they were and are still under pressure.
I admire all those who had the foresight to have Gmail or what ever but it would seem that only the people who didnt know or hadnt for whatever reaso set this up suffered and larning after the event is not the best way to get educated.I have now got GMail but I had to aks a fellow IDnetter where and how so should assume we all know these little back up tips and the be almost preached to by those on the safe ground not are all so savvy and may not look upon Email as a free add on if this was the case surely for numskulls like me then it would be advertised as bonus.I can only speak for myself but the mail features did help me decide,after getting years of junk mail etc when with Tiscali.it is all to do with knowledge and the majority of users are not up on the workings of it all.they sign up and just use it.it is after all advertised in this way to Attract more customers and it is effective.
I dont think that threats to jump ship is correct,this implies a much bigger problem and rats leaving the sinking ship which couldnt be further from the truth.Idnet are in no way sinking and enjoy a well deserved reputation.so a little over the top I feel.If I ask for my MAC code next week,and I end up signing for Zen which is very likely it isnt a slur on anyone nor should it be constued as betraying anyone.It si for one reason and one reason alone I was very disturbed the way this has been handled by the company and just like all things I dont want to have to concern myself with failures in the system have an impact like this.
I only wish for a reliable service and this include the Email service which is included.I have learned not to put all my eggs in one basket but if the confidence is eroded then in my case I will find another isp.
It isnt personal it is sensible.
I love this forum but I dont mix the Forum up with IDnet so my loayties are here.
Idnet provide the service take my money and thats it.
I wouldnt hire a taxi and expect to bring my own seatbelt..its there for me to use.
Someone made the point earlier why not use the phone,and very sensible unfortunatly in my case I could not check an online prescription,there is no phone contact no Dr to get to speak with to explain and hope a prescription ordered before this little crisis unfolded could be had.No telephone contact with solicitors.ever tried getting through to one on any day let alone a Friday ..no chance.Builders who are large contractors who provide no phone number at all for the public only an adress and an local rate call charge so you see in some case thanks to progress we have not always got his option.
I admire you all on here I admire you honesty and loaylty.A hypocrite to me is someone who says one thing and does the opposite..............I dont think anyone here is guilty of such an act.
I dont think I am a hypocrite if I am then I dont deserve to be on here at all
I think the main issue was the time it took to let us know and that has been redressed and I hope this is sorted out by Monday and hope that my feras that it wont be are unfounded..but I wont put all my eggs in one basket
ever again..I have already stated I am small fry and my little DD wont be noticed every month .
I'll go with the "don't put all your eggs in one basket" approach. As soon as I started using the internet, many a moon ago, it occurred to me that if I only had one option available I could be stung. I never use an ISPs email service as my main source of urgent mail. I've got several sources for that, and as such, never have any problems :)
This sort of thing can happen to anyone however, so expect the unexpected so you don't have to learn the hard way :)
I can't think of any other platitudes other than never eat yellow snow :D
Is there an update on resumption of service, or at the very least some idea of where things stand? Last post that I can find from any staff at IDNet was at around 5pm.
Quote from: D-Dan on Jul 05, 2008, 00:40:19
My point is that despite the fact that they all do it, it is still a "free" add on. If you walked out of your door tomorrow morning and someone gave you, and every other passerby willing to talk to him, a free toaster, then when you got home, it failed, would you expect him to fix it for you?
:whistle:
email is NOT a free add on.From IDNet's own advertising:
Features include the following:
Up to 8 Mbps* download speed
Up to 448 Kbps* upload speed
30GB monthly download included (just £1 per GB thereafter)
Unlimited uploads
Unlimited UK based support via a Free-phone 0800 Number
Unlimited POP3 mail-boxes (@idnet.com)
Anti-virus e-mail protection
Anti-spam e-mail filtering
Web-mail - access your email from any web browser
Access to account details online via our customer portal
Unthrottled and unrestricted (i.e. no traffic shaping or port blocking)
One month contract
Free fast-track migration (within 3 working days with no downtime*)
Free static IP address with option to purchase more on request
Free dial-up account for back-up access (via an 0845 number)
No call charges
2GB blog/web space There is no differentiation there between the lines mentioning speed, and the lines mentioning email. It never ceases to amaze me how some people accept shoddy services, and then stand back and praise the staff for putting right something that should never have gone wrong in the first place.
I accept that there will be inevitable problems occasionally that cannot be envisaged, but this one could have been. In IDNet's own words:
"Where we had a backup server waiting in the wings to take over the service in the event of failure it is now apparent that, though that machine was up to the job last year, it is not now." So, they had accepted that problems needed guarding against, they made provision, the provision was insufficient and seemingly inadequately tested.
The only redeeming feature in this whole sorry episode is that IDNet have issued an apology. Updates from them have been few and far between though, relying instead upon the goodwill of a few customers to keep the rest of us informed, a situation that a laptop and a minute's typing every couple of hours by a staff member could easily have solved.
Personally, if staff are not at this moment working to fix the problem, I'd be very disappointed, but we hear nothing from them, so who's to say they aren't at home in bed?
Im not 100% but I think thats it and we just wait and see is the answer I think I expect some update will be there tomorrow or hope so :dunno:
I have tried logging in to the alternative webmail but it wont allow me in just states password incorrect....is this something else I dont,but should know how to use... :-\
As unpopular as it will be Dopamine has raised some very good points and I do find myself in some agreement .I dont expect hourly updates or anyone to post anything and they may be hard at it,or they may be in bed.. IN truth I dont know but it is when all said and done thier jobs if I get called out in a minute I will just go thats what I get paid for I cant see a difference........
I don't often post on this board, though I keep a weather eye on it.
I've been surprised at the number of references to people leaving to join another ISP because of the recent email failure.
Granted it was a major failure on IDNet's part not to have a reliable backup system in place, but that's been acknowledged and I've no doubt that the disaster recovery plans are going to get a major inspection and overhaul.
But if you quit IDNet for another ISP, where are you going? To another ISP with rock-solid email but slow and flaky internet connection? An ISP with overseas script monkeys who'll go through their script for three weeks before passing you to second line support?
IDNet provide you with a connection to the internet, anything else is frippery. Lose that connection and I don't care who your mail provider, Web provider, blog provider is YOU'VE LOST IT.
Get into the real world folks.
Quote from: Bill on Jul 05, 2008, 02:21:07
I don't often post on this board, though I keep a weather eye on it.
I've been surprised at the number of references to people leaving to join another ISP because of the recent email failure.
Granted it was a major failure on IDNet's part not to have a reliable backup system in place, but that's been acknowledged and I've no doubt that the disaster recovery plans are going to get a major inspection and overhaul.
But if you quit IDNet for another ISP, where are you going? To another ISP with rock-solid email but slow and flaky internet connection? An ISP with overseas script monkeys who'll go through their script for three weeks before passing you to second line support?
IDNet provide you with a connection to the internet, anything else is frippery. Lose that connection and I don't care who your mail provider, Web provider, blog provider is YOU'VE LOST IT.
Get into the real world folks.
This is asuming that there is only the one isp in the market (leaving the rubbish ones out) in the real world Bill there are may be 6 in this league with proven track records I have had the srcipts from India to Katmandu so just a little wiser I wish I could say this is out of proportion its all relative to each and every one of us..
Hope its sorted when I turn on tomorrow........
Very true, but how else does one protest?
Now, I'm not one of those thinking of moving..... yet. But, the manner in which this is being dealt with by IDNet is unacceptable to all but the fanboys and the undemanding. The vast majority of IDNet customers probably never visits this forum, their first port of call in incidences like this either being the IDNet website homepage or the telephone helpline. Why has IDNet not posted a status report on its site? RSS feeds, forums and any other forms of communication are the playgrounds of the technically competent or interested, and aren't used by the majority.
All this really shows is how abysmal ISPs are in general. IDNet can't be bothered to keep its customers informed when a major problem arises, yet is rightly considered to be one of the best ISPs. Doesn't say much about the industry, does it?
Quote from: Bill on Jul 05, 2008, 02:21:07
I don't often post on this board, though I keep a weather eye on it.
I've been surprised at the number of references to people leaving to join another ISP because of the recent email failure.
Granted it was a major failure on IDNet's part not to have a reliable backup system in place, but that's been acknowledged and I've no doubt that the disaster recovery plans are going to get a major inspection and overhaul.
But if you quit IDNet for another ISP, where are you going? To another ISP with rock-solid email but slow and flaky internet connection? An ISP with overseas script monkeys who'll go through their script for three weeks before passing you to second line support?
IDNet provide you with a connection to the internet, anything else is frippery. Lose that connection and I don't care who your mail provider, Web provider, blog provider is YOU'VE LOST IT.
Get into the real world folks.
We've made good progress tonight and should now be in a good position to crack on with the service migration tomorrow.
Regards
Simon
Quote from: Malc on Jul 04, 2008, 23:12:22
I just knew Gordon Brown was behind this somehow.
The only thing Brown is behind is Ed Balls.
Allegedly.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Jul 05, 2008, 04:07:24
We've made good progress tonight and should now be in a good position to crack on with the service migration tomorrow.
Regards
Simon
Nice to see updates, thanks Simon. Hope it goes well.
Having read all the comments, I
am disappointed with this email situaltion, and I don't treat email as free, nut as part of the package. But, at the end of the day, I would not jump ship, as long as my connection is excellent, (as it always is) and as long as there's no line throttling and lies about unlimited.
My horrendous year with poopex/toscalli comes to mind amidst all this.
Hi,
Up until this IDNet's SMTP has been fantastic for me. It's the only provider I've ever been with where I could create an email account and use its password to access my ISP's SMTP server from whatever connection I happen to be using. I travel and the way IDNet do it is so much easier than messing about with traceroutes, trying to work out who the ISP is that supplies the hotel I'm in, finding the name of their SMTP server, reconfiguring my client then finding out their ISP is on one of the spam blacklists and half the world won't take my emails.
Bearing in mind that a significant proportion of people won't use their ISP's POP3 service but almost everyone will use the SMTP server to send stuff I really think that the outgoing SMTP should be spun off onto a separate machine to give it some isolation from any attack on the incoming server. I do give IDNet credit for having a second SMTP server :)
Cheers,
Paul.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Jul 05, 2008, 04:07:24
We've made good progress tonight and should now be in a good position to crack on with the service migration tomorrow.
Regards
:
Simon
:ithank: :thnks:
Quote from: LesD on Jul 04, 2008, 19:53:09
(Tell'em what telex was Rik! :) )
:P Telex was what I predicted to the then PMG in 1967, would be the means by which daily newspapers would be delivered. I got the technology a bit wrong, but I was preicting the web. ;)
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Jul 05, 2008, 04:07:24
We've made good progress tonight and should now be in a good position to crack on with the service migration tomorrow.
Regards
Simon
Now go to bed, Simon. :)
Quote from: Bill on Jul 05, 2008, 02:21:07
I don't often post on this board, though I keep a weather eye on it.
I've been surprised at the number of references to people leaving to join another ISP because of the recent email failure.
Granted it was a major failure on IDNet's part not to have a reliable backup system in place, but that's been acknowledged and I've no doubt that the disaster recovery plans are going to get a major inspection and overhaul.
But if you quit IDNet for another ISP, where are you going? To another ISP with rock-solid email but slow and flaky internet connection? An ISP with overseas script monkeys who'll go through their script for three weeks before passing you to second line support?
IDNet provide you with a connection to the internet, anything else is frippery. Lose that connection and I don't care who your mail provider, Web provider, blog provider is YOU'VE LOST IT.
Get into the real world folks.
This kind of comment is so one sided, there are other good ISP's out there, I'm not with IDNet anymore, i just pay for my mail to be hosted as I had great addresses, my ISP has 24/7 english support being LLU adsl2+ better speeds over my long line, so can we cut the fan boy stuff out!
Now back to the situation at hand, having spoken with Tim yesterday I got an apology which I did not ask for, we chatted about what happened and he was open and honest, basically a big mistake happened and they have learnt from it. You cant ask for much more than that, and jumping ship would be pretty silly unless you have a good ISP to go to, I changed due to bad BT line issues and o2/be worked great for me, but I would not use another BT adsl max service without it being with IDNet simply because of the normally excellent level of service.
As for Indian script jockeys DO YOU SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGE! Give the people a break its a job and the ISP choose to out source, yes its frustrating sometimes but they do the best with what they are given, if slamming them is an excuse to be racist, zip it!
Simon is providing updates they are working hard, and its easy to kick someone when they are down so can we cut that bullying out? They are doing more than Tiscali/Orange etc so be glad and understand no one is infallible, and then if you want to jump ship go ahead, but the grass is not always greener on the other side, and you should all know that, that's why you are here!
Finally hindsight is a great thing but constantly saying "they should have done this, or that" WE KNOW/THEY KNOW, its old news, they are helping. Can we move on please, this thread is getting dull, we just need the updates not the playground semantics.
Thanks for the update Simon and hope we are reconnected soon.
QuoteSimon is providing updates they are working hard, and its easy to kick someone when they are down so can we cut that bullying out? They are doing more than Tiscali/Orange etc so be glad and understand no one is infallible, and then if you want to jump ship go ahead, but the grass is not always greener on the other side, and you should all know that, that's why you are here!
Finally hindsight is a great thing but constantly saying "they should have done this, or that" WE KNOW/THEY KNOW, its old news, they are helping. Can we move on please, this thread is getting dull, we just need the updates not the playground semantics.
Thanks for the update Simon and hope we are reconnected soon.
I agree, having been pushed around , lied to and generally pi**ed of by Orange for three years of appalling service, the grass is not so green out there, those that want to, go and try it, but come and tell us how you get on. I for one am staying, I know when I am well off.
Quite right as a said My horrendous year with poopex/toscalli comes to mind amidst all this. a while ago.
We're still on the case and will give a progress update when we've got news.
Simon
Thanks, Simon. :thumb:
when do you think you'll get it open then? ;D :out:
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 11:12:30
Thanks, Simon. :thumb:
when do you think you'll get it open then? ;D :out:
:eyebrow:
Simon says... :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:
Honesty has always been at the root of IDNETS philosophy and they are not backing away from criticism,(fair or unfair) but just getting on with restoring the situation and then going on to increase reliability of the email system. Unfortunately, all this takes time as and ,beleive it or not, Simon and the team are actually human with the same emotions and feelings as the rest of us.
As Killhippie said Hindsite is always an easy argument but never solves present situations.
Well done to Simon and Team for all their hard work and late nights/early mornings. We should appreciate their commitment as they too have families who are probably missing them at the moment.
Firstly, IMHO it's complete bunkum to suggest that IDnet email / Web space (etc) is "free". As has been mentioned, these facilities are in the menu of facilities advertised with the service, so are costed as part of the package ! They will also have been considered by a proportion of customers in their purchase decision.
ID Net is at the expensive end of the spectrum for non business use. I moved from Tiscali because I wanted a "reassuringly expensive" service (with corresponding reliability) after their regular outages and lost emails over there ! So please don't speak of Tiscali in the same breath as Idnet ! They aim to give a completely different level of service, at a completely different price break !
I run a small hobby business, and host my site on my IDNet Webspace, and although I have alternative email facilities, I do use my IDnet supplied one.
I agree that it would be foolhardy to run a "day job" business from a general ISP's server, but I took an economic / service judgment when setting up my current situation. The Hobby Business does not make vast amount of money, so business grade facilities are not really justified. To this end I factored in non 24/7 availability. However I believe that for the money I pay monthly to IDNet, I deserve a platform that isn't subjected to an outage for days on end !
WRT the basic connectivity, sure, this has been good over the time I have been using IDnet, but bad IT practice is bad IT practice - Why should anyone assume that the core task of keeping everyone on line is run superbly while email (etc) is run on a "Fred in a Shed" basis ?
Bottom line with a premium service: if it's part of the advertised service, it has to work - and work at a premium level !
However, no one is perfect, so I am not going to jump ship on this occasion alone, but if a long duration outage occurs again - on any of IDnet services that I pay for - you won't see me for dust !
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 11:12:30
Thanks, Simon. :thumb:
when do you think you'll get it open then? ;D :out:
/slap
:D
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 11:12:30
Thanks, Simon. :thumb:
when do you think you'll get it open then? ;D :out:
Oooooo..........Low blow!
It might be worth mentioning a couple of the terms & conditions we all signed up to:
Operational faults
We agree to use reasonable efforts to remedy any reported operational faults in relation to the Service as soon as reasonably possible, but cannot guarantee to maintain uninterrupted availability of the Service.
Extended period of suspension
We shall not be responsible for any inconvenience, wasted expenditure, loss of goodwill or reputation, loss of opportunity or financial loss caused as a result of a suspension under Clause 3.2, but if such suspension continues for more than 14 days then you shall be entitled to terminate the Agreement by notice in writing to us.
No-one, including IDNet, are happy about the failure. They are doing their best to resolve it as quickly as possible (and there are signs of progress as I type). However, I've had a similar failure from a dedicated email company - these things happen. One thing I am certain of is that IDNet will have learnt from this and will do all they can to ensure it never happens again.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Jul 04, 2008, 17:04:20
Please may we offer our apologies to everyone for the trouble and inconvenience that this downtime with mail.idnet.com has been causing ........
I think this posting and the rest of the message is a first class response from Simon and IDNET. :thumb:
It takes courage to put your hand up, admit to a problem and commit to a solution. Communication is everything. My last ISP was in denial and completely unable to face and deal with an enraged customer base. Fellow IDNetters will no doubt have similar stories.
IDNET are facing their customers and dealing with the outage. Sure, the hindsight-rich and the armchair engineers will throw a few rocks. The toys will be out of the pram for some and a few might migrate. Such is the nature of customers and they have that right because their perception is the reality of how well you are doing.
I see Simon's response as a big positive and feel more rather than less confident in my choice of ISP. Things go wrong. What counts is fixing them and moving on. So I am sticking with IDNET, for all my internet services, including email.
Hang in there IDNET. I do think I am alone in this view.
You aren't, Dave. Denial is easy, admitting errors is much harder. :thumb:
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 11:41:41No-one, including IDNet, are happy about the failure. They are doing their best to resolve it as quickly as possible (and there are signs of progress as I type). However, I've had a similar failure from a dedicated email company - these things happen. One thing I am certain of is that IDNet will have learnt from this and will do all they can to ensure it never happens again.
Couldn't agree more, Rik, and I would just further point out that as can be seen by Simon's post at 04:07 this morning, they have been working on this over night, as promised, and are continuing to make progress. There will be a post-mortem on this incident, and I am sure that the IDNet team will answer any questions with honesty and clarity, once the systems are up and running again.
Quote from: davej99 on Jul 05, 2008, 11:51:44
I think this posting and the rest of the message is a first class response from Simon and IDNET. :thumb:
It takes courage to put your hand up, admit to a problem and commit to a solution. Communication is everything.
Seconded for the nth time! :)
Quote from: davej99 on Jul 05, 2008, 11:51:44
My last ISP was in denial and completely unable to face and deal with an enraged customer base. Fellow IDNetters will no doubt have similar stories.
You could be describing my last IPS Dave! :eek4:
One of the Tipex variety? ;)
Crisga has a valid point.
Sure - everyone is working hard in the background to resolve what has become an awful situation and it is clearly appreciated by all those who have posted (when they probably checked to see if it is up and running yet) but it is a service - it is not free and it should have a 'recovery process/disaster plan' to minimise any such issues.
After all, we know the mail system has failed - we are its victims; but would the same have occurred if the web access or other server hosted files had failed? Last week, we would not have imagined it could; but last week we would not have imagined being without email for days and days.
Likewise, it is a premium cost service - it is not a 'two-penny' you get what you paid for service - and I pay a max premium price and expect it to be a little better than this.
It surprises me that there was no planned recovery - that there has been little or no email service resilience; It seems as though we didn't start to think about what to do until after it happened and then waited and waited for some file check to complete, and eventually decided there should be a plan B
The comments about lack of updates and why there has been little communication is even more frustrating - for all the time that the file check was running there were no, or very few, updates. Other than watch the HDD light flashing and monitoring the file count, I can't imagine why there was no-one that could type in a few sentences to be even more up-front about the true status.
I certainly telephoned because I didn't think I would have to visit a customer forum to find out why there was a problem. Why no 'news alert' or info on the home/front page? It is not good! Having a trial after the event is OK but doesn't aid the current issue.
The IT and ISP industry is calculated on MTBF rates and resilience, backup and recovery plans etc. Would this not focus on keeping downtime to an absolute minimum - counted in minutes and hours not days?
And I'm not sure that throwing the 'terms and conditions card' at the customer is helpful in these circumstances. That is what I would have expected from the large multi-nationals not a more tailored, 'friendly' and customer focused company.
Crisga was making a point, not asking for the T & C's.
Regards
Sooty
Quote from: davej99 on Jul 05, 2008, 11:51:44
It takes courage to put your hand up, admit to a problem and commit to a solution. Communication is everything.
..Things go wrong. What counts is fixing them and moving on. So I am sticking with IDNET, for all my internet services, including email.
Couldn't agree more. I think it's pretty obvious Simon and co know that for whatever reason they screwed up, so we don't need to labour the point.
Quote from: Simon on Jul 05, 2008, 12:01:23
There will be a post-mortem on this incident, and I am sure that the IDNet team will answer any questions with honesty and clarity, once the systems are up and running again.
Absolutely. I also have no doubt they will tell us what they have done so it doesn't happen again.
Quote from: davej99 on Jul 05, 2008, 11:51:44
I think this posting and the rest of the message is a first class response from Simon and IDNET. :thumb:
It takes courage to put your hand up, admit to a problem and commit to a solution. Communication is everything. My last ISP was in denial and completely unable to face and deal with an enraged customer base. Fellow IDNetters will no doubt have similar stories.
IDNET are facing their customers and dealing with the outage. Sure, the hindsight-rich and the armchair engineers will throw a few rocks. The toys will be out of the pram for some and a few might migrate. Such is the nature of customers and they have that right because their perception is the reality of how well you are doing.
I see Simon's response as a big positive and feel more rather than less confident in my choice of ISP. Things go wrong. What counts is fixing them and moving on. So I am sticking with IDNET, for all my internet services, including email.
Hang in there IDNET. I do think I am alone in this view.
:iagree:
The measure of any company is not whether it makes mistakes, because we all do, but how it deals with them.
In the days when I was with Tiscali, there was once a 7 day outage of all services, and whever I phoned up to ask when service would be restored, the script-monkey always told me engineers had the problem in hand and there would be full restoration within 2 hours, an assurance they stuck solidly to even when I pointed out they'd given me the same answer
the last 15 times I called! :hairpull:
Every time there is any chance I might get wound up by the current situation I just think back to the days of long outages, rubbish speeds, and do-not-deviate-from-the-script-when-talking-to-customers-or-you're-fired support staff, then I read Simon's post again, and a wave of calm washes over me. :smug:
iv just been able to send and receive mail
lucky or has it been restored? 8)
Things seem to be happening now - I can log into all my email accounts. :yeay:
i saw it first! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
UPDATE
Mail is now up and flowing again. Webmail is not yet working and will be the next target. Other services, eg web space, blog space and albums will be sorted, but mail has the priority.
So what do i win? :P
Quote from: Sooty on Jul 05, 2008, 12:15:28
And I'm not sure that throwing the 'terms and conditions card' at the customer is helpful in these circumstances. That is what I would have expected from the large multi-nationals not a more tailored, 'friendly' and customer focused company.
Crisga was making a point, not asking for the T & C's
That was my decision, nothing to do with IDNet. I just felt that perhaps we should all remember that there are times when things go wrong, and they are provided for in the T&Cs.
There was a recovery plan, btw, it's just that phenomenal growth in the past nine months found it wanting. I'm sure that won't be allowed to happen again.
Quote from: mrapoc on Jul 05, 2008, 12:39:27
So what do i win? :P
A new chair? ;D
(http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/89/69/22966989.jpg)
:rofl:
possibly better than me current offerings...when will it arrive? :thumb:
It's with Chitty Link, so who knows? :D
Whooopppeee!! Oh how I've missed my E-garbage.
A huge thankyou to all here and IDNet towers for all the extremely hard work over the last days.
Now, if we can find the original individuals(s) responsible for the problem perhaps we can devise a fitting punishment for him,her or them. I suggest a tied in 5 year contract with AOL or something similar!! ;D
Quote from: sobranie on Jul 05, 2008, 12:59:36
I suggest a tied in 5 year contract with AOL or something similar!! ;D
Remove their testicles? Without anaesthetic.
Quote from: Malc on Jul 05, 2008, 13:09:29
Remove their testicles? Without anaesthetic.
I suspect that they have "no balls" anyway.
I'm glad things are moving again. :)
This is not a complaint in any way, just a question, and I'm not pushing for this as I know they are busy.
If I haven't received something now, will it follow at a later time, or do I need to re apply for it?
It should work it's way through over the next few hours unless it was sent before 13:00 on Wednesday, Malc.
Thanks Rik.
It would have been sent late Wed, early Thur.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 12:40:42
That was my decision, nothing to do with IDNet. I just felt that perhaps we should all remember that there are times when things go wrong, and they are provided for in the T&Cs.
There was a recovery plan, btw, it's just that phenomenal growth in the past nine months found it wanting. I'm sure that won't be allowed to happen again.
I think we also need to differentiate between Terms and Conditions (that are usually there on advice from a legal company), and what we can reasonably expect to have as a level of service. I don't think anyone was planning on suing IDnet for breach of the small print !
WRT the recovery plan, growth of the ISP should be facilitated or halted - Isn't this one of the reasons the likes of Tiscali have such a bad reputation, "sweating" their infrastructure to extreme ? Maybe they can get away with that by dint of the low expectations of their client base and the low price of the service. Maybe it is in fact an integral part of their financial calculations, to allow a "churn" of their clients in exchange for "£x" savings in their capital expenditure ? Personally I don't think that a premium ISP has the luxury of such a trade off!
By the way, I do appreciate the honest and contrite post from IDnet Simon - That, and the reasonable level of service to date, are the reasons I'm not actively looking for an alternative ISP !
Quote from: sobranie on Jul 05, 2008, 12:59:36Now, if we can find the original individuals(s) responsible for the problem perhaps we can devise a fitting punishment for him,her or them. I suggest a tied in 5 year contract with AOL or something similar!! ;D
I reckon In and Mad hatched a plot from Spain... (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/cackle.gif) (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/giggle.gif)
Quote from: Malc on Jul 05, 2008, 13:22:33
Thanks Rik.
It would have been sent late Wed, early Thur.
Probably best to get a re-send, Malc.
I agree with what you're saying, Chris. I think to an extent, IDNet didn't realise that their current infrastructure was already inadequate. Like I've said, I think this is major lesson and things will change from this point onwards.
I forgot about In in all this. God would he have been happy. ;D
Quote from: chrisga on Jul 05, 2008, 13:22:47
I think we also need to differentiate between Terms and Conditions (that are usually there on advice from a legal company), and what we can reasonably expect to have as a level of service. I don't think anyone was planning on suing IDnet for breach of the small print !
WRT the recovery plan, growth of the ISP should be facilitated or halted - Isn't this one of the reasons the likes of Tiscali have such a bad reputation, "sweating" their infrastructure to extreme ? Maybe they can get away with that by dint of the low expectations of their client base and the low price of the service. Maybe it is in fact an integral part of their financial calculations, to allow a "churn" of their clients in exchange for "£x" savings in their capital expenditure ? Personally I don't think that a premium ISP has the luxury of such a trade off!
By the way, I do appreciate the honest and contrite post from IDnet Simon - That, and the reasonable level of service to date, are the reasons I'm not actively looking for an alternative ISP !
I think all of those points will be seriously looked at over the coming week(s), Chris. They have promised to take steps to ensure that nothing like this happens again.
It's worth remembering they have been upgrading switches and routers over the past few months to pre-empt demand. I guess Trevor got missed in the planning...
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 13:24:00
Probably best to get a re-send, Malc.
When sending a re request I get...
sending reported error (0x800CCC80): None of the authentication methods supported by this client are supported by your serverI assume this means we still use the other address for sending?
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 13:21:25
It should work it's way through over the next few hours unless it was sent before 13:00 on Wednesday, Malc.
Does this mean mail sent before this time is lost? I assumed this would be on the backup which according to the idnet web page is now flowing through.
Quote from: Malc on Jul 05, 2008, 13:28:53
When sending a re request I get...
sending reported error (0x800CCC80): None of the authentication methods supported by this client are supported by your server
I assume this means we still use the other address for sending?
It's working OK for me, Malc? Anyone else with problems?
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 05, 2008, 13:36:14
Does this mean mail sent before this time is lost? I assumed this would be on the backup which according to the idnet web page is now flowing through.
The 'held stack' was 72 hours, Steve, so anything sent before about 13:00 on Wednesday may have been returned.
I have tried sending to my old pipex email, which I have been receiving from over the last few days (cannot send) and that won't go either, same message.
What client are you using, Malc?
Is it my imagination or has the forum gone quieter? Must be that everybody is reading their email! ;)
I suppose by backup I meant ,what was on Trevor,s last backup as oppose to the held stack. Obviously important if using IMAP and not been clearing mail regularily.I understood/misunderstood from the forum that trevor's last backup was performed a couple of days prior to the crash.
Quote from: LesD on Jul 05, 2008, 13:42:10
Is it my imagination or has the forum gone quieter? Must be that everybody is reading their email! ;)
It has - if their boxes are like mine, we'll not see anyone till tomorrow. ;)
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 05, 2008, 13:43:31
I suppose by backup I meant ,what was on Trevor,s last backup as oppose to the held stack. Obviously important if using IMAP and not been clearing mail regularily.I understood/misunderstood from the forum that trevor's last backup was performed a couple of days prior to the crash.
That's what I understand, Steve. Once everything is up and running, IDNet will attempt to recover data from the disks on Trevor.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 13:44:06
It has - if their boxes are like mine, we'll not see anyone till tomorrow. ;)
Or digesting its contents ;D
Quote from: LesD on Jul 05, 2008, 13:42:10
Is it my imagination or has the forum gone quieter? Must be that everybody is reading their email! ;)
Im reading my Terms and Conditions Les :mad:
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 13:40:40
What client are you using, Malc?
MS outlook 2007
outgoing mail... smtp.idnet.com
run test account and get none of the authent.... etc.
I'm using 2003, but the underlying engine isn't too dissimilar, Malc. Have you gone over your settings, just to check nothing got changed/deleted?
I need to take a break now, but if you want me to, I'll take a look at your settings in mail/PM when I get back?
just got my first Viagra offer since Wednesday :blush: :whistle:
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 13:52:03
I'm using 2003, but the underlying engine isn't too dissimilar, Malc. Have you gone over your settings, just to check nothing got changed/deleted?
I need to take a break now, but if you want me to, I'll take a look at your settings in mail/PM when I get back?
Checked as above, and my password name email must be fine as I'm receiving.
Enjoy yer dinner :thumb:
Quote from: Malc on Jul 05, 2008, 13:49:46
MS outlook 2007
outgoing mail... smtp.idnet.com
run test account and get none of the authent.... etc.
use smtp.idnet.net should o.k
All working here from outside IDNet :thumb: well done guys, but please host blogspace and the like somewhere else for safety, I'm sure email on dedicated servers is the best way to go, now go get some rest ;)
Quote from: Sebby on Jul 05, 2008, 13:24:21
I agree with what you're saying, Chris. I think to an extent, IDNet didn't realise that their current infrastructure was already inadequate. Like I've said, I think this is major lesson and things will change from this point onwards.
Hmm, I think I said something similar back on page 3.....
Growth is always difficult to manage. Over invest and the customers don't come, result penury for iDNet. Under invest and they come in droves, result misery for the customers. Not an easy balance to strike and I think as Rik said they thought they had it right, but screwed up on this one.
I don't doubt the technical side will be covered - SMTP and POP on different servers seems a good idea - but another major lesson is the need for better and more timely information, which will be covered as time goes on.
Good work Simon. Now go home and get some sleep. :)
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 05, 2008, 13:55:10
use smtp.idnet.net should o.k
Changed, it asked for password, then when I run test it says... Your email server rejected your login verify user name and PW
This is fine as I'm receiving. ???
Have you got SMTP authentication enabled, Malc? It will be in Server Settings somewhere. Try it with or without, whichever is the opposite to what you have it now.
Quote from: Malc on Jul 05, 2008, 13:59:30
Changed, it asked for password, then when I run test it says... Your email server rejected your login verify user name and PW
This is fine as I'm receiving. ???
It is not just you, it's the same here for me
Quote from: Simon on Jul 05, 2008, 14:13:11
Have you got SMTP authentication enabled, Malc? It will be in Server Settings somewhere. Try it with or without, whichever is the opposite to what you have it now.
:thumb: (http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/calamityjayne17/smiles%20collected%20by%20calamityjayne17/clap.gif) :karmic: :thnks:
Well done Simon, you guys really do know your stuff. It's peeps here as well as IDNet themselves, the reason
NO ONE should jump over this.
Thanks
I posted last night complaining about IDNet's performance in keeping us updated, so I think it's only fair I give an update here now.
A short while ago I received a personal phone call from Simon of IDNet offering his apologies and an explanation. I didn't stay on the phone long as I preferred to let him get on with more pressing matters, but had I wished to discuss the matter further I feel sure he would have done.
This level of customer care is over and above that which I'd expect from any ISP and has restored my faith in IDNet's customer focus. Let's hope that if/when unforeseeable problems arise in the future, IDNet will be a little more forthcoming with regular updates so that Simon doesn't have to spend time personally apologising to customers.
Thank you Simon. I shall now continue to recommend IDNet to all friends and family who complain to me about the shocking customer service of other ISPs.
Glad to hear it, I've been trying to get as much info as possible from Simon and bring it back here for members to reduce the pressure on him, but as you've found out, he's still reading and taking note of what's happening here. :)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 14:34:27
Glad to hear it, I've been trying to get as much info as possible from Simon and bring it back here for members to reduce the pressure on him, but as you've found out, he's still reading and taking note of what's happening here. :)
He's one of the good guys who cares about his customers, as I'm sure do the rest of the team. I know this week has left him pretty drained with one thing and another.
It certainly has, Tac, I've never heard him sound so weary.
Quote from: LesD on Jul 05, 2008, 13:42:10
Is it my imagination or has the forum gone quieter? Must be that everybody is reading their email! ;)
:rofl:
sorry, but I'm not very tech savvy so I'm hoping someone here or from IDNet can help me.
I've just managed to get through to my mail but my inbox is totally empty saying 'no messages found in this inbox'. Am I likely to retrieve/receive all the e-mails I previously had in my inbox before this kerfuffle kicked off or not??
I ask because in 2 weeks time I'm getting married and a lot of correspondence with suppliers, etc was done through my IDNet account...so I'm a bit annoyed and concerned at the moment at the prospect of having lost all my e-mails concerning details and contacts to do with my wedding.
I don't know the ins and outs why this happened but I do hope IDNet address this issue in the near future as some of you have strongly suggested. I appreciate them keeping us updated on the forum and all the hours put in to rectify it, but as it stands I'm a tiny bit screwed in having had all my e-mails deleted....couldn't have come at a worse time!
Will I ever see these e-mails again???? :fingers:
Hi Spike
Welcome to the forum and best wishes for your upcoming nuptials. :welc: :karma: :thumb:
Do you use IMAP mail (where you leave the mail on the server and can read it from a number of computers?). If so, that mail will be missing right now, but IDNet will be trying to recover it from the failed machine asap.
:welc: :karma:
As Rik says, do you use IMAP? I do, and my old messages aren't there - IDNet will be restoring these (hopefully) from the old server/a backup over the next few days. I have, however, received several new emails.
i use pop mail and download everything but there is an option to download it and leave it on the server until deleted. Wouldn't this serve the same purpose as imap?
Similar, but I just find that method more "messy".
wow, thanks for the prompt reply Rik...and thanks for the welcome!
I use their webmail....is that the same thing? If so you've given me hope that I'll be getting my e-mails sometime soon. I trust they will be trying to recover peoples' e-mails from the machine in due course....I look forward to getting all mine back in my inbox!
Fwiw, Trevor is still checking the file system, so data recovery can't begin yet.
As to delays, Simon expects that they might take overnight to clear.
Quote from: spike on Jul 05, 2008, 15:41:23
I use their webmail....is that the same thing? If so you've given me hope that I'll be getting my e-mails sometime soon. I trust they will be trying to recover peoples' e-mails from the machine in due course....I look forward to getting all mine back in my inbox!
No, webmail is different in that you access it through a browser, not a client, Spike, but the effect is the same unfortunately. The mail will be recovered as soon as possible as far as possible - the problem is that until the server (Trevor) completes the disk check, they can't begin the process.
Rik You've gone into autoquote mode ;D Time for a little lay down.
Thanks, Ted, corrected. :thumb:
Anyone need Viagra or a bank account in Nigeria? >:D I have thousands of applicantion forms and special offers!
Only joking - the spam filter on IDNet it great. :thumb:
Actually, I think it was turned off to speed up the queue... ;D
Was that the only reason? >:D :laugh:
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 15:58:14
Actually, I think it was turned off to speed up the queue... ;D
Right, so who has got all my naked lady emails? eh?
Not me - Sebby claimed them. ;)
I'm in the same box, I just use my email via the webmail page, so I can easily access it anywhere, but yup, now my inbox is empty, some important-ish email's in there! :( Hopefully the Mod/Mins can get them back!
Quote from: Pez on Jul 05, 2008, 17:23:08
I'm in the same box, I just use my email via the webmail page, so I can easily access it anywhere, but yup, now my inbox is empty, some important-ish email's in there! :( Hopefully the Mod/Mins can get them back!
I know it doesn't help now but if you download them with a pop client when at home and leave them on the server, you can still view them from anywhere on the web plus you have a "hard"copy in case of problems.
Hope you get them back.
Quote from: Simon on Jul 05, 2008, 13:22:58
I reckon In and Mad hatched a plot from Spain... (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/cackle.gif) (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/giggle.gif)
Hey, I'm in Spain too at the moment.
The three of us are sitting in the sun (30C) with our feet up sipping sangria :cheers: and wondering what all the fuss is about.
I'll get me coat :out:
JB.
The three of you... You mean you've met up with In & Mad? :eek4:
Just on the subject of webmail, I know it's convenient to be able to view your emails from anywhere, but it is a good idea to also download them to your home machine, via an email client such as Outlook / OE, or Thunderbird, just for safe keeping. :)
Good point, Simon. Most clients have an option to 'leave on server'.
Noooooooooo i have also lost all my emails from all my emails accounts,will i get them back? All my Japanese Playstation 3 logins,my E.A logins,my Konami ID accounts,everything!!. :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
It depends on what happens when the server has finished the disk check, David. If the files are intact, they will be restored to you.
I hope so as some are very important i cant play on the Japanese Network without em.What if they dont get the emails back,will there be some sort of compensation? :whistle:
Quote from: Malc on Jul 05, 2008, 15:56:19
Anyone need Viagra or a bank account in Nigeria? >:D I have thousands of applicantion forms and special offers!
Only joking - the spam filter on IDNet it great. :thumb:
The spam filter isn't good at all. And to be completely truthful i'm glad i have migrated from IDNet.
Not having a backup server is a disgrace considering what people were/are paying for the service.
IDNet may be in the top 10 of ISP's according to ISP Review but i guess they cannot supply a service (that encompasses everything) to their subscribers............ ( i bet the 'pipe and slipper' brigade will try to defend them :yeahright: )
I sincerely hope you are happier with your new ISP that you have ever been here, Andy. IDNet please a lot of people, but they obviously can't please everyone.
Quote from: Simon on Jul 05, 2008, 19:31:50
I sincerely hope you are happier with your new ISP that you have ever been here, Andy. IDNet please a lot of people, but they obviously can't please everyone.
I am Simon - thanks ;)
Regarding my new/old ISP, well i thought the grass would be greener on the other side (being IDNet) but i am now much happier where i am. Everyone makes mistakes....
Good luck to you all :beer1:
How long is it taking for new emails to get through?
Between 90 minutes and four hours according to my notes - can't see a pattern as to why though.
I'm still getting stuff. ;D
Proves my point, Malc. Have any of the important ones turned up?
Thanks Rik, coming up to 4 hours and still not received an expected email. Nothing important though...
Yes, thanks Rik. It was from Wed night, and that one arrived about an hour ago..
CORNWALL here we come on the 11th August 2008, coach and hotel booked and confirmed!!!!! ;D
That's great - I'm happy that it worked out OK in the end for you. :thumb:
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 20:21:18
That's great - I'm happy that it worked out OK in the end for you. :thumb:
I could always visit the Doc, have a hooby get together, we're staying in Newquay, but going to Penzance, were he is for the day, to see Lani's sister. She lives at Penzance also (different house, you understand-not connected).
Have a great time, whatever you do. :)
:thnks: Rik.
Any visits to Scotland in the offing for you?
QuoteI hope so as some are very important i cant play on the Japanese Network without em.What if they dont get the emails back,will there be some sort of compensation? Whistle
Rik will post the Terms and Conditions for you again I expect ;)
..... basically, not a hope in Hades of compensation.
Just got an email through from a guy that wanted to buy something from me - On 2nd July. I wonder if he's found an alternative supplier ? :mad: I e-mailed him back ...... not using IDnet email !!! ::)
Quote from: Malc on Jul 05, 2008, 20:25:31
:thnks: Rik.
Any visits to Scotland in the offing for you?
Doesn't look like it, Malc, other things need sorting first.
:sigh:
Quote from: david666 on Jul 05, 2008, 19:18:24
I hope so as some are very important i cant play on the Japanese Network without em.What if they dont get the emails back,will there be some sort of compensation? :whistle:
Sorry, David, missed this in the rush today. You'd need to talk to IDNet, but I would suspect not. I would advise you, though, to think about using an email client to download mail, so that you have a copy under your control, even if you use the web interface for day to day activity.
Then, being me, I'd advise you to back up that file too. ;)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 05, 2008, 16:03:12
Not me - Sebby claimed them. ;)
True, but I don't mind sharing with Malc. :P
Quote from: Andy70 on Jul 05, 2008, 19:49:03
Regarding my new/old ISP, well i thought the grass would be greener on the other side (being IDNet) but i am now much happier where i am. Everyone makes mistakes....
Glad to hear it.
Quote from: Malc on Jul 05, 2008, 20:23:23
I could always visit the Doc, have a hooby get together, we're staying in Newquay, but going to Penzance, were he is for the day, to see Lani's sister. She lives at Penzance also (different house, you understand-not connected).
give us a shout Malc :thumb: hope the weather improves for you, it's not stopped hissing down in Pz for 2 days ???
Hello. Rik - I hope I'm in the right place to briefly comment on the email problem.....don't post often. I, like everyone else, have been without my Idnet email for a while. Obviously I could use my Hotmail account for outgoing but, equally obviously, couldn't get incoming. For some people this was pretty important but it does remind us that we should try to have a 'Plan B' to cover such eventualities if our anticipation of particular emails is urgent. I would, however, like to mention that when I had dial up with Onetel (TalkTalk) some months back, prior to moving over to Idnet, I, and many, many others had no email for several WEEKS...... not days. This was due to server problems and eventually got fixed but...... without the personal contact that is available here at Idnet. Their customer service was nothing like as personal or efficient as Idnet and I could not wait to leave them. Yes it has been a proper nuisance but I am still finding it a novelty to be dealing with Idnet.....i.e. to be able to ring them and get an answer straight away and to receive superb customer care. This is worth a lot to me and I for one would not dream of trying to find another ISP on the grounds of this weekends problems. I acknowledge that some subscribers to Idnet will be upset but urge them to bear in mind the excellent service received normally and to note the majority view that Idnet very much regret the incident and will endeavour to ensure it is less likely to happen again. My personal thanks to those who have kept everyone updated and worked to overcome the problem. Regards.
Quote from: Captain K on Jul 05, 2008, 12:27:28
In the days when I was with Tiscali, there was once a 7 day outage of all services, and whever I phoned up to ask when service would be restored, the script-monkey always told me engineers had the problem in hand and there would be full restoration within 2 hours, an assurance they stuck solidly to even when I pointed out they'd given me the same answer the last 15 times I called! :hairpull:
Every time there is any chance I might get wound up by the current situation I just think back to the days of long outages, rubbish speeds, and do-not-deviate-from-the-script-when-talking-to-customers-or-you're-fired support staff, then I read Simon's post again, and a wave of calm washes over me. :smug:
A kindred spirit Bruce. :)
Any dissenter's should be made to do a spell with Tiscali! ;)
Quote from: Simon on Jul 05, 2008, 12:43:45
A new chair? ;D
(http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/89/69/22966989.jpg)
Priceless Simon! ;) :rofl:
Quote from: stan on Jul 05, 2008, 21:25:46
Hello. Rik - I hope I'm in the right place to briefly comment on the email problem.....don't post often. I, like everyone else, have been without my Idnet email for a while. Obviously I could use my Hotmail account for outgoing but, equally obviously, couldn't get incoming. For some people this was pretty important but it does remind us that we should try to have a 'Plan B' to cover such eventualities if our anticipation of particular emails is urgent. I would, however, like to mention that when I had dial up with Onetel (TalkTalk) some months back, prior to moving over to Idnet, I, and many, many others had no email for several WEEKS...... not days. This was due to server problems and eventually got fixed but...... without the personal contact that is available here at Idnet. Their customer service was nothing like as personal or efficient as Idnet and I could not wait to leave them. Yes it has been a proper nuisance but I am still finding it a novelty to be dealing with Idnet.....i.e. to be able to ring them and get an answer straight away and to receive superb customer care. This is worth a lot to me and I for one would not dream of trying to find another ISP on the grounds of this weekends problems. I acknowledge that some subscribers to Idnet will be upset but urge them to bear in mind the excellent service received normally and to note the majority view that Idnet very much regret the incident and will endeavour to ensure it is less likely to happen again. My personal thanks to those who have kept everyone updated and worked to overcome the problem. Regards.
very well put stan, and I'm sure all at IDNet will appreciate your thanks :thumb:
Im able to send with a mostly unused freemail address, but using several 'idnet.com' addresses, mail is sent but not received anywhere. Will this eventually get through ?
Now receiving mail sent over several days in small batches. Not expecting much more, but Im confused about the sending/receipt failures. Any advice.
Patience I suppose!
Quote from: B52 on Jul 05, 2008, 21:34:42
Im able to send with a mostly unused freemail address, but using several 'idnet.com' addresses, mail is sent but not received anywhere. Will this eventually get through ?
Now receiving mail sent over several days in small batches. Not expecting much more, but Im confused about the sending/receipt failures. Any advice.
Patience I suppose!
My test mail took 5 hours to arrive, I think patience is the key at the moment.
:good Stan.
Quote from: stan on Jul 05, 2008, 21:25:46
Yes it has been a proper nuisance but I am still finding it a novelty to be dealing with Idnet.....i.e. to be able to ring them and get an answer straight away and to receive superb customer care. This is worth a lot to me and I for one would not dream of trying to find another ISP on the grounds of this weekends problems. I acknowledge that some subscribers to Idnet will be upset but urge them to bear in mind the excellent service received normally and to note the majority view that Idnet very much regret the incident and will endeavour to ensure it is less likely to happen again. My personal thanks to those who have kept everyone updated and worked to overcome the problem. Regards.
Let the above comments count for me as well. Thanks again Simon, Martin, Tim and everyone involved at IDNet for all your hard work. :thumb:
Quote from: B52 on Jul 05, 2008, 21:34:42
Patience I suppose!
I think so. The load on the server is probably quite high still.
Quote from: The Doctor on Jul 05, 2008, 21:04:45
give us a shout Malc :thumb: hope the weather improves for you, it's not stopped hissing down in Pz for 2 days ???
It's got 5 weeks to improve. We're going on Aug 11th. ;)
I'am getting new emails,but all my old ones are still missing :thumbd:
Hi David. As it has already been stated, those who only ever use the webmail interface, or imap, will have their old emails missing until they are recovered from Trevor (the mail server which broke). It is expected this will be done over the next few days.
I don't understand how anybody can complain they have lost very important emails - if they were important you would have them stored locally and if they were really important you would have a printed hard copy.
Maybe i should next time. :whistle:
David, I believe they will either be recovered from Trevor (if it ever comes out of its coma) or restored from a backup, but at this stage, IDNet are still waiting to see what happens with Trevor.
By the way, there seems to be absolutely no delay now in new mail being received. :thumb:
Quote from: Sebby on Jul 05, 2008, 23:31:23
By the way, there seems to be absolutely no delay now in new mail being received. :thumb:
Agreed! I just sent an email from my hotmail address and it was in outlook seconds later!
I've been receiving fairly regular dribbles of mail from all of my accounts, but obviously there's a hell of a backlog, so I think patience is the only answer here. That said, it does seem to be coming through faster now.
Been out all day working helping to build houses for a charity called Habitat for Humanity in a cross community project in Belfast Northern Ireland ( http://www.habitatforhumanity.org.uk/)only to come home and find some very nasty and unfair comments on this thread. I really, don't know how Rik and the gang put up with it , at times.
Let me explain in simple words to some of these very nasty selfish contributors, there was an Email disaster...everybody knows about it...it was an inconvenience and at worse an annoyance. People didn't lose their lives, people weren't killed. IDNet got it wrong and they have admitted to it and have done their best to rectify it and most importantly have apologised. What more do you want them to do?..........spill blood.
My 14 yr old daughter saw some of these comments and said "Dad, why don't some these guys go and do something worthwhile with their lives instead of being nasty........the guy has apologised, what more do they want?"
Guys get real, it's not the end of the world.
To Simon and all the team at IDNet, thanks for all the very hard work you have carried out in getting the Email back up and running again...........I certainly appreciate it.
And to Rik and his team, thanks
Harry
:good:
Thanks Harry!
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jul 05, 2008, 23:45:30
Been out all day working helping to build houses for a charity called Habitat for Humanity in a cross community project in Belfast Northern Ireland ( http://www.habitatforhumanity.org.uk/)only to come home and find some very nasty and unfair comments on this thread. I really, don't know how Rik and the gang put up with it , at times.
Let me explain in simple words to some of these very nasty selfish contributors, there was an Email disaster...everybody knows about it...it was an inconvenience and at worse an annoyance. People didn't lose their lives, people weren't killed. IDNet got it wrong and they have admitted to it and have done their best to rectify it and most importantly have apologised. What more do you want them to do?..........spill blood.
My 14 yr old daughter saw some of these comments and said "Dad, why don't some these guys go and do something worthwhile with their lives instead of being nasty........the guy has apologised, what more do they want?"
Guys get real, it's not the end of the world.
To Simon and all the team at IDNet, thanks for all the very hard work you have carried out in getting the Email back up and running again...........I certainly appreciate it.
And to Rik and his team, thanks
Harry
I've got to say it..... yours ranks as the nastiest, most condescending and pointless post on this entire thread. "nasty selfish contributors"? Where?
If you're happy, great, but name calling makes you look stupid.
I think the point Harry was trying to make is that there are more important things in life than email. I guess that's true to an extent, though it's obviously vital for some. We all have different feelings about things, which is fine - I've said before that it would be a boring world if we all thought the same. Ultimately, the mail problems caused some people hassle yet wasn't an issue for others. Some users got angry about it, and if they were to look back, I'm sure some would admit to being slightly irrational - but that's often the response to frustration. It's just the way it is. :)
Guys, can we please not fall out now that the problems are over with? (http://www.pc-pals.com/smf/Smileys/Smileys/chill.gif)
Just received an email (23:55) telling me my son's cricket match that me and him rode 3 miles to on our bikes at lunchtime was cancelled. I thought it was kind of odd how me and him managed to score 400 not out in half an hour, although it was a bit of a nuisance having to field the ball we'd just hit over the boundary! ;D
There was however a significant plus side. There's a pub serves a very decent pint of Banks & Taylor which overlooks the field, so we sat outside in the sunshine and debated what the score would have been. For 2 hours! 8)
So, here's my formal complaint....without this failure, I'd have missed an extremely pleasant couple of hours chewing the cud with my boy (which is rare these days - pressure of work and all that) in the sunshine, enjoying a couple <cough> :blush: of very nice pints of ale. So unpleasant was my ordeal, that I'm, er, not going to do anything at all. ;D ;D
Glad you had a good afternoon, Bruce!
Sounds like you had a good one, Bruce. :)
I did indeed. Can't remember the name of the ale, but an apt name might have been "Old Perspective". ;)
Quote from: stan on Jul 05, 2008, 21:25:46
My personal thanks to those who have kept everyone updated and worked to overcome the problem. Regards.
Thanks, Stan - that's much appreciated. :)
Nice turn of fortune, Bruce! :thumb:
Glad to see that the mail is back. Well done guys. :)
One thing to come out of this episode is that as a company we need to have a better disaster recovery plan in place for our email. We routinely back up servers and PCs but never gave the email service a second thought. And we're supposed to be IT professionals ??? .We don't hold email on Trevor for any length of time so I doubt that we've lost much, if anything, potentially just stuff in transit. However we do obviously need to have a 2nd channel available for email as it's the loss of service that was the big issue for us. We've decided to stick with IDNet (see note below) and have opted for a filtered domain email service so we're in the process of moving one of our domains over to IDNet.
Note to IDNet: You really really must keep people informed. Just take a look at any recent PR disaster and it's the lack of information that everyone always complains about. It doesn't take long to update the "we're still trying to fix it" message so that at least the time changes and we're not stuck looking at a day-old message wondering what the hell is happening. It was a close run thing deciding to stay with IDNet, the dissenters where all giving lack of information as one of the key reasons for moving. That and being without any email for 3 days of course...
I don't think they necessarily did a bad job of keeping us informed; the service status on their site was updated (though the information was slightly vague, but I expect that's because they weren't sure of the outcome themselves). I think that we expect a lot of information because of this forum, but ultimately, we have to remember that this is only an unofficial channel. That said, the guys at IDNet should realise that this is a vital resource and use it accordingly, imho.
Quote from: batsys on Jul 06, 2008, 10:28:51
One thing to come out of this episode is that as a company we need to have a better disaster recovery plan in place for our email. We routinely back up servers and PCs but never gave the email service a second thought. And we're supposed to be IT professionals ??? .We don't hold email on Trevor for any length of time so I doubt that we've lost much, if anything, potentially just stuff in transit. However we do obviously need to have a 2nd channel available for email as it's the loss of service that was the big issue for us. We've decided to stick with IDNet (see note below) and have opted for a filtered domain email service so we're in the process of moving one of our domains over to IDNet.
Note to IDNet: You really really must keep people informed. Just take a look at any recent PR disaster and it's the lack of information that everyone always complains about. It doesn't take long to update the "we're still trying to fix it" message so that at least the time changes and we're not stuck looking at a day-old message wondering what the hell is happening. It was a close run thing deciding to stay with IDNet, the dissenters where all giving lack of information as one of the key reasons for moving. That and being without any email for 3 days of course...
I agree with everything you say, Bat. As an ex-PR man, I've been doing a lot of nagging about the flow of information this week, As you rightly say, it's the absence which upsets people and a little effort can defuse a bad situation.
Clearly email is hard to backup, the server is constantly changing unlike most data servers - but something better has to be put in place, and I am confident it will be.
IS mail working OK? I'm over at Sis place and nothing has come through so far. I've done a test from my domain account and that still hasn't appeared.
I just sent a test message to my IDNet account and it came through instantly. Anyone else?
Quote from: Sebby on Jul 06, 2008, 12:30:02
I just sent a test message to my IDNet account and it came through instantly. Anyone else?
Msgs FROM iDNet are going through OK
working fine here :thumb:
I've checked 'in and out' and can see no delays.
Quote from: Ted on Jul 05, 2008, 17:31:58
I know it doesn't help now but if you download them with a pop client when at home and leave them on the server, you can still view them from anywhere on the web plus you have a "hard"copy in case of problems.
Hope you get them back.
I did this before with my old ISP email, I used OE and then switched to Thunderbird, but when I used it everytime it downloaded on to my PC it seemed to auto-delete off of the webmail client. Is there a way to stop it doing that, specifically talking about Thunderbird?
I once got a pat on the back from a very senior exec in a global auto company after I had screwed up badly. This was for calling him and telling him a disaster was about to happen and what I was doing to fix it forever. A little while later we won a good chunk of extra biz and coveted ship-to-line status. The moral: communication is everything.
It can certainly be done in most clients, Pez, unfortunately I don't use TBird. Basically, you're looking for a 'leave on server' option.
Quote from: davej99 on Jul 06, 2008, 12:36:26
The moral: communication is everything.
I agree totally, Dave.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 06, 2008, 12:34:15
I've checked 'in and out' and can see no delays.
Are the Spam filters on or off? Not that it should make any difference..
Last time I heard, Tac, they were off in order to speed the queue clearance.
Hopefully on, as I certainly don't trust some friends pc's to be clear of infections thus spam hell starts, one in particular i only gave to my googlemail address and that gets its fair waft of spam now :( anyidea when they will be put back on Rik, seems like leaving the gates open after the last spam attack, now things seem to be moving swiftly.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 06, 2008, 12:42:19
Last time I heard, Tac, they were off in order to speed the queue clearance.
OK. What seems to be happening is they are there if I look at WebMail, but the POP client (AppleMail) is not picking them up. Can't see why it should be the client since nothing has changed..
How would the client know, Tac. The mail is filtered before it hits the box?
Quote from: Pez on Jul 06, 2008, 12:35:25
I did this before with my old ISP email, I used OE and then switched to Thunderbird, but when I used it everytime it downloaded on to my PC it seemed to auto-delete off of the webmail client. Is there a way to stop it doing that, specifically talking about Thunderbird?
Hi Pez, I use Thunderbird and what you do is:
Click on "Tools" - "Account settings" - "Server Settings" and then tick "Leave Messages on Server" box + any option you require. Hope this helps.
Regards Arathorn
Quote from: Rik on Jul 06, 2008, 12:52:47
How would the client know, Tac. The mail is filtered before it hits the box?
No its not a problem with Spam. All I get with the client when trying to connect to POP3 is connections failed. Hang on dug in the logs:
Error is "pop3.idnet.com" doesn't support CRAM-MD5
No idea where this came from as nothing has been altered on the client
I'm not using SSL on Port 110
Do you have an 'SSL' switch in your settings? If so, try reversing the state of it.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 06, 2008, 12:57:15
Do you have an 'SSL' switch in your settings? If so, try reversing the state of it.
Beat me to it. I'm not using SSL
What happens if you turn it on?
Quote from: Rik on Jul 06, 2008, 12:59:05
What happens if you turn it on?
The server error: The POP server "pop3.idnet.com" doesn't support TLS (SSL) on port 110.
Its set to MD5, but does it use MD5 on a different port?
Anyhow the settings shouldn't have changed....
Try port 25.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 06, 2008, 13:04:42
Try port 25.
Now it says "This account (iDNet) appears to be offline due to a network problem"
Sorry, 25 is the SMTP port (I knew I was tired...). 110 should be the POP port. If that won't work for you and no other Mac users have any ideas, give IDNet a call on 01462 476556.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 06, 2008, 13:23:12
Sorry, 25 is the SMTP port (I knew I was tired...). 110 should be the POP port. If that won't work for you and no other Mac users have any ideas, give IDNet a call on 01462 476556.
Hmmm!!! Someone has been messing with the 'hidden' options and set one of them to use MD5 authentication. Since she's just cooked lunch and there's a bottle or two of red, I guess I shall just have to smile ;D ;D (Through clenched teeth!)
Thanks for the help Rik - at least I can leave Simon in peace!
Glad you go there, Tac, enjoy lunch. :)
Quote from: Tacitus on Jul 06, 2008, 12:41:16
Are the Spam filters on or off? Not that it should make any difference..
There's basic spam filtering now in operation, the full package will, no doubt, be back tomorrow.
Quote from: Arathorn on Jul 06, 2008, 12:54:45
Hi Pez, I use Thunderbird and what you do is:
Click on "Tools" - "Account settings" - "Server Settings" and then tick "Leave Messages on Server" box + any option you require. Hope this helps.
Regards Arathorn
Just what I was going to say. Sorry we didn't get round to it sooner, but :welc: :karma:
If I forward mail from @idnet.com to my other email host can I leave a copy on the idnet server? I did think about forwarding to myself@idnet.com as a second address.
IIRC, you could forward it and then move it to a folder, or simply forward to multiple addresses. The forum's team@ address forwards to each staff member.
I will try multiple address's first , although I am not sure if mail forwarding is working at present?
Quote from: Rik on Jul 06, 2008, 17:28:50
IIRC, you could forward it and then move it to a folder, or simply forward to multiple addresses. The forum's team@ address forwards to each staff member.
But once it's forwarded, it leaves the original mail box, if I understand it correctly, so no, a copy would not be saved when mail is forwarded.
Unless you move it to the box and then forward...
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 06, 2008, 17:39:14
I will try multiple address's first , although I am not sure if mail forwarding is working at present?
It is, Steve, at least for me.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 06, 2008, 17:45:32
Unless you move it to the box and then forward...
:stars:
Multiple forwarding is easier. :)
Will we loose the emails that were in the inbox before? I have none left.
They will hopefully be recovered tomorrow, or at least over the next few days. :)
Indeed. The way I understand it is they are waiting (and hoping) that Trevor will recover so that no mail that was already in the mailboxes will be lost. Failing that, the last backup will be restored, but inevitably there will be some mail missing from between the time the backup was made and the server failure.
I have been unable to setup a mail forward today from mail to me @idnet.com forward to me@mydomain, Support have confirmed that this service has not been restored yet but hopefully should be working tomorrow.
I've just been told it is working, Steve, but not for IDNetters addresses (ie forum ones). There seems to be a little confusion...
Hi Steve
As a knock-on effect of the mail outages last week mail forwarding hasn't been restored yet.
We're working toward a full restoration and I would anticipate this will be complete by tomorrow
Kind Regards
Andrew - IDNet Support.
I'm seeking clarification - back shortly...
(http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/yawn.gif) :laugh:
Quote from: Rik on Jul 07, 2008, 17:27:50
I'm seeking clarification - back shortly...
Rik driving there ???
:laugh:
The clarification wasn't clear. :)
On a lighted hearted note, just looked at an email header and clunker is still going strong! Long may he continue.
Received: from clunker.idnet.net (mail.idnet.com [212.69.36.210])
Curious - they said they couldn't use him, maybe a change of name by deed poll? ;)
A bit like Dr Who then :)
;D
Computers imitate art.
I see idnet.com email is currently reported as sub-optimal. Any idea why or what's going on?
We're coming up to a week so it should have been sorted by now.
They were still tweaking the forwarding, Tac, plus it's not on as powerful a server and they haven't yet done the data recovery.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 08, 2008, 18:38:50
They were still tweaking the forwarding, Tac, plus it's not on as powerful a server and they haven't yet done the data recovery.
Time for a more detailed update?
I suspect they are waiting till they can say something meaningful.
Maybe they have ordered a new server and are waiting for it to be delivered?
I do know that they are still waiting for Trevor to finish his checking.
Come on Trevor, you can do it! ;D
Quote from: Glenn on Jul 08, 2008, 19:06:40
Maybe they have ordered a new server and are waiting for it to be delivered?
I can imagine the current situation is temporary. Quite possibly the recent debacle has prompted quite a big order of new kit for use in various places.
I think it was certainly a wake up call.
I am inundated with spam on Outlook Express - is IDNet mail allowing everything through?
:bawl:
I'm not seeing much, but they may have spam filtering down atm, I know they were using a 'lighter' version.
UPDATE
1) Spam filtering has been turned off periodically over the past 24 hours as the server has been tweaked
2) Some people have been experiencing problems with SMTP authentication, this should be resolved today
3) Trevor is still file-checking, after a week. Until, and unless, he finishes, then it is not possible to start any mail recovery for those with mail stored in webmail or IMAP.
4) Planning to prevent this situation ever occurring again is under way.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 09, 2008, 14:51:54
UPDATE
3) Trevor is still file-checking, after a week. Until, and unless, he finishes, then it is not possible to start any mail recovery for those with mail stored in webmail or IMAP.
I'm guessing that Trevor may well be toast. :( If not completely, there must be some v serious corruption.
That's my feeling, Tac. I'd be inclined to pull the plug, but I know they want to try and recover data for people.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 09, 2008, 15:12:18
That's my feeling, Tac. I'd be inclined to pull the plug, but I know they want to try and recover data for people.
I suppose while there's still life etc. If it looks as though it's making progress I guess they have little to lose by leaving it going. There must be a point where they have to call time. Full marks though for trying :)