My pc has crashed again and this time I have had the following messages.
Windows page state Bios does not match
Consider bios upgrade
System has recovered for a serious error.
I cant type the whole wording on the page which first displayed,well it wasn't a page it was my pc.
A problem has been detected windows has shut down to prevent damage to your computer
Check any new hardware/software
If problems persist disable any newly installed hardware or software
Beginning dump of physical memory
The other thing I get is when I boot up I get a black screen with what appears to be a little fan spinning..
Time for the repair shop ?
Is this to do with the ram on Saturday...certainly looks serious
Did you get an error number with the message, David. It may be that the BIOS has got confused about how much RAM is installed.
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jun 17, 2008, 11:17:25
Is this to do with the ram on Saturday...certainly looks serious
did you add some more ram on saturday?
Yes Rik it read Stop 0X0000000050
I have just removed the new phones software as a precaution and also removed elements 6
Dont know if this is to do with Saturday as you know the originals went back as they came out.
Quote from: vitriol on Jun 17, 2008, 11:30:44
did you add some more ram on saturday?
Thanks for replying Vitriol no added memory put in as it was the wrong part I ordered .
Try this, David:
http://www.techspot.com/vb/all/windows/t-22384-Random-BSOD-and-CTD-Windows-XP.html
Thanks for this Rik I have printed it just in case I will try it.thought I had done something wrong but coudnt work out how as I just put the originals back.
can you get the pc to boot in safe mode?
I have just rebooted but not in safe mode,and it would appear to be fine.trying to work out how to boot to bios.....
There should be an on-screen message during the boot process, David. It usually involves pressing DEL, f2 or f12.
Thanks again Rik
Sorry,got into bios cannot see anything which relates to RAM any tip on where in the bios this would be,under which heading ? :fingers:
No more questions (promise)
What make is the BIOS, David, and has the message gone away anyway?
Yes Rik the pc is back to normal (sorry about delay)had a crisis here.)
Quote from: Rik on Jun 17, 2008, 15:41:41
What make is the BIOS, David, and has the message gone away anyway?
Pheonix 20 J if this helps Rik
And the message, has it gone?
Yes Rik when I rebooted it returned to usual.......Im not getting mail notifications at moment hence I cant see if a reply has been posted so checking manually..
If the message has gone, my gut feeling is that the two RAM modules may have been swapped when you replaced them, David, and the BIOS had a checksum error as a result. It's now self-adjusted.
Email notifications are working OK, have you changed your settings?
No Rik that one was fine got there on the button by the look of it...I did not check to ensure the sticks went back Exactly as they came out so I guess this may my fault...oops.didn't realise.only now after reading have I got a minimal understanding of what the bios is and does.and I stress at this moment it is minimal but I will carry on reading...thanks Rik..
It's probably just one of those things, David, but BIOS' do checksums on the RAM, so if they did change position, i could confuse things. I've seen something similar after adding RAM, btw.
Thats a relief.....its going to have the new ones when they arrive....that will be interesting so I will read all I can :karma: :thnks:
:ithank:
It shouldn't matter if you put your RAM in the opposite slots (as long as they are the correct slots if your system requires the memory to be installed in pairs.) An error like you describe would tend to suggest that all may not be well in RAM-land (or you have a possible PSU problem)
I would download the bootable CD image from http://www.memtest.org/ , burn it to a CD then boot your machine off it. I'd recommend letting run a couple of complete passes just to be pretty sure you don't have a dodgy stick of RAM in there. This program is designed to provoke just about every known fault in RAM. TBH, if I have the time I always run at least one pass whenever I install new RAM in a machine. Out of the box defects do happen. I have seen one machine with a strange intermittent fault that passed 4 passes and failed on the 5th though. If you have a Linux CD many of them have this program on them.
Cheers,
Paul.
Thank Paul I am just reading this,cant say I fully understand it but was in two minds so will download and give it go.. :thumb: thanks again
Wow !!!! too many choices :eek4: :eek4:
If you're replacing the RAM anyway, you might want to wait. :thumb:
Assuming you have unzip and a CD burning program you want http://www.memtest.org/download/2.01/memtest86+-2.01.iso.zip
I know you're replacing the RAM but I'd feel better if we could identify a fault then prove it gone :)
Cheers,
Paul.
Quote from: Sebby on Jun 17, 2008, 20:05:32
If you're replacing the RAM anyway, you might want to wait. :thumb:
Yes Sebby its crashed twice more so turned it off.so will wait until the sticks arrive and then sort it..I cant seem to find the RAM on here so will wait...
Quote from: Dangerjunkie on Jun 17, 2008, 20:52:00
Assuming you have unzip and a CD burning program you want http://www.memtest.org/download/2.01/memtest86+-2.01.iso.zip
I know you're replacing the RAM but I'd feel better if we could identify a fault then prove it gone :)
Cheers,
Paul.
Thanks Paul trying to do that now
My desk top wont write this to CD but my laptop will.now the laptop is Vist and the Desk top XP will this work if I copy to CD and run it on XP?
The file contains a complete copy of the whole CD you need to make.
The program / OS shouldn't matter. Remember though that you need to unzip the file to get a .iso file then write that to the disc with your CD program's "write image" function and not make a data disc containing the file (which won't work.)
Cheers,
Paul.
Indeed. As it's an image, it's OS independent. You could use Linux if you so wished. :)
Quote from: Dangerjunkie on Jun 17, 2008, 20:52:00
Assuming you have unzip and a CD burning program you want http://www.memtest.org/download/2.01/memtest86+-2.01.iso.zip
I know you're replacing the RAM but I'd feel better if we could identify a fault then prove it gone :)
Cheers,
Paul.
Its happened so many times since yesterday,crashes goes to blue screen.then reboots and I get the message from windows that the ram installed on this machine does not match with what they have found so obviously there is a problem from last week.as they were put back due to the others not fitting I have spent hours on the web and come across one how to site which states that if taken out to ensure the go back in the same order..so little confusion here.
As the new ram is due any day I was going to wait and install these and then see what goes on.and try all you have said here.Although I have the dreaded blue screen the machine still boots up and runs,there is not a time at all it can go for an hour or even more.may be I should be but I am not alarmed as Im confident this can be rectified.
I was wondering whether when the new ram is installed to carry out a reset and use the recovery discs I made when I purchased this machine I was thinking this could resolve issues.
As the case side is off I may try later and switch the current ram sticks and see if this cures it.worth a try.
It's important to put RAM in the correct place. For example if you have RAM in SLOT 0 and Slot 2 (a pair) and you put them back in SLOT 0 and SLOT 3 then the machine probably won't work. If however you put the stick from SLOT 2 and put it in SLOT 0 and the stick from SLOT 0 and put it into SLOT 2 then it *should* still work fine.
It sounds to me like you've either got a faulty module or one/both of them aren't properly seated/the connections are dirty. What might change however is if one of the sticks is faulty and you switch them then the fault will move to a different place in memory. If that new place is occupied by something vital and the old one was somewhere it wasn't often used then swapping the memory can cause the machine to become more unstable.
If you have been running a machine with faulty RAM (one reason I'd test) then you may have written corrupt data to the hard drive if it came from a bad spot in RAM. This means any Windows updates or software installations *may* have written bad data to the hard drive (or may not.) At that point a reinstall may be the best way to make sure your copy of Windows doesn't have any corrupt bits. Alternatively you could do the RAM swap and see if the machine is stable then decide if you think a reinstall is worth it.
Cheers,
Paul.
:thnks: Paul will tyr it out later......
Who's bloody silly idea was this upgrade, David? ;D
Who the bloody hell do you think...................Mine ;D ;D ;D...but I did follow Pauls help earlier on first thing was to check out the memory sticks which I had put back and guess what the one furtherest away was indeed not seated correctly I have been running this for about 6 hours and the noisy HD has fallen silent,it has not crashed at all.and things are working once again......so it was my own fault all the time......
Theres a surprise.. :blush: :blush: :blush: :blush:
The machine is running better than it was on Saturday so there was a problem before and this has sorted it out........
I have thanked everyone and am very grateful,learned a lot,including if it ain't broke don't fix it :blush: :blush: ;D :thumb:
:whistle: :whistle: creeps off into the sunset.
On a positive note I have learned about this small area of a pc. BIOS and RAM so something good came out of it all..... If I had put it in right in the first place nothing would have come out ;D
Quote from: Simon on Jun 18, 2008, 21:34:40
Who's bloody silly idea was this upgrade, David? ;D
Thats weird Simon,just received an E mail from Crucial letting me know they have shipped the correct memory sticks :eek4: :eek4: :eek4: :eek4:
Fingers crossed!
:rofl: I made a basic error......what a lesson
That's exactly how most people learn about computers, David! :thumb:
Exactly. I mainly know what I do today from experimenting, and makings lots of errors along the way. :)
Are you talking about computers or accountancy, Seb?? ;D :out:
Both. ;D
But I was talking about computers. :P
Great, glad you've fixed things David and learned something along the way :thumb:
Quote from: Sebby on Jun 19, 2008, 09:07:27
Exactly. I mainly know what I do today from experimenting, and makings lots of errors along the way. :)
That's why I know sod all about the insides of a PC, not got the guts to go into the guts. I could do with an extra 512 mg of ram, i know it's an easy job, even know the type i need but think i'll leave things as they are. :)
Thanks Brian it has worked out well sorted a few other things out....new RAM should be here tomorrow and after this little trial I will at least know what I am doing as far as this job is concerned and Im confident that the replacement RAM is correct and will go straight in... ;D
Have to reiterate its all thanks to the good people on here... :D
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jun 19, 2008, 18:34:50
Have to reiterate its all thanks to the good people on here... :D
Too true David, i've learned a lot from folks posting on Netters with prob's and getting solutions, let's know how you get on fitting extra Ram, :thumb:
Rely on it ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: BrianM on Jun 19, 2008, 18:29:28
That's why I know sod all about the insides of a PC, not got the guts to go into the guts. I could do with an extra 512 mg of ram, i know it's an easy job, even know the type i need but think i'll leave things as they are. :)
Seriously, you should do it. I built my first computer knowing nothing about how a PC is put together, but it honestly makes sense when you have a look. :)
Happened again just this minute received Email from Crucial (they are good) to say that the item has been shipped.So Im looking forward to completing this job.
Im giddy through looking at the "How To" websites some of them are really informative and it allows me to type in the most basic question and get an answer which helps me on the road to understanding.it is also good to see many others asking the same questions.if nothing else its a learning curve..and although time consuming can only be a good thing.if it only takes the fear and confusion out of it... :eek4: ;D ;D
Im so looking forward to getting my memory back ;D ;D >:D ;D
Not long to go now, David. :)
Quote from: Sebby on Jun 19, 2008, 21:30:33
I built my first computer knowing nothing about how a PC is put together, but it honestly makes sense when you have a look. :)
Of course, whether it
works is another matter... ;D :out:
I have a season ticket for pc world :whistle:
Autumn or Winter? ;D
Must be winter as it has a special section which states "Only use if screen is frozen" so ?
:grn: ;D
:ithank:
Well they have arrived,very impressed with the service,have to pop around the school then its fun time :fingers: :fingers:
Well its in and everything seems to be ok the hard drive clicking a little,just carried out a scan and the results are puzzling as there is no sign that anything has changed it is showing up as
Memory capcity 2048
Currently installed 521 MB
Availaible slots 2
Should this not have changed ?
Seems to be faster almost instant
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jun 20, 2008, 13:53:36
Well its in and everything seems to be ok the hard drive clicking a little,just carried out a scan and the results are puzzling as there is no sign that anything has changed it is showing up as
Memory capcity 2048
Currently installed 521 MB
Availaible slots 2
Should this not have changed ?
Seems to be faster almost instant
Sorry I'm being lazy. How much memory did you have and how much did you just put in?
Do you have to do anything in the BIOS setup screen when you add memory on that machine? One of my Dells I did...
Cheers,
Paul.
This should have doubled it Paul so a little confused
In that case I'd say that either you need to go into the BIOS and save something for the memory size to change or that one of the sticks isn't correctly seated/is faulty and isn't being recognised.
If you go into the BIOS setup is there a section where it tells you what is plugged into each memory slot?
So you had 2x256 and you replaced it with 2x512 if I understand right?
Cheers,
Paul.
edit: could also be a dirty/defective RAM socket on the motherboard.
Thanks I will double check the seating first Paul
OK :) I would go into the BIOS setup as well. One of my Dells refused to recognise a memory upgrade until I'd gone in and resaved the config.
Cheers,
Paul.
David, what is displayed if you right-click on my computer then select Properties? It should tell you the amount of RAM installed.
How much did you have before and what have you just fitted?
I GB RAM Sebby
You've just fitted 1GB, or that's what Windows is showing, or both?
It showing it in my computer section Sebby
Then all is fine. It must just be the Crucial scanner - perhaps clearing your browser cache will sort that, but if Windows reports 1GB is installed, then 1GB is installed. :thumb:
:thumb: thought it was faster although didnt get it for speed but certainly seems to have got faster :thnks: :meldrew: ;D ;D
Good to hear. ;D
Quote from: Sebby on Jun 20, 2008, 14:51:04
Then all is fine. It must just be the Crucial scanner - perhaps clearing your browser cache will sort that, but if Windows reports 1GB is installed, then 1GB is installed. :thumb:
Scanner stayed the same on SIW but when I looked at the cpu usage it clearly shows memory of 1GB so alls well...... :laugh: :laugh: cleared the browser cache while I was about it too
Sorry to put a damper on your success, but do keep an eye (ear?) on the hard drive clicking because if it persists, there's a pretty good chance it's on the way out.
When you boot the computer, one click is probably normal, but if you get anything resembling a "tick-tock" during boot up, it's time to backup everything on that drive sharpish.
Thanks Drummer carry out back ups once a week its quiet now.to be honest I have got so used to it as it has been like this since it came out the box.....that was just over 12 months ago warranty just up.
It was like a sky + box at one time,my last sky box made the same noise.but will bear it in mind many thanks am looking at changing it but have to some more reading ;D
Good work David, :thumb:
Here is another way to get an overview of what you computer build is.
Use:
Start -> Help and Support -> Use Tools to view your computer information ...... -> My Computer Information -> View general system information about this computer
Using this route in XP should show you a picture like the one I have attached below.
[attachment deleted by admin]
:karmic: WOW Thanks Les ;)
This one states 512 MB very odd,and this is flying along I know its faster but still odd
When I go to the My computer it reads 1 GB
When I use the support it reads 512 MB
SIW 512 MB
Yet it really is steaming along and very stable weird
Just checked again and system properties state 1 GB
Support XP states 512 detected
Which is correct the plot thickens
will check BIOS
Maximum Memory Capacity: 2048 MB
Currently Installed Memory: 512 MB
Available Memory Slots: 2
Number of Banks: 4
Dual Channel Support: N.A.
CPU Manufacturer: GenuineIntel
CPU Family: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 2.80GHz Model 4, Stepping 7
CPU Speed: 2793 MHz
Im now wondering what I have put in this machine would the label give any clues the ones I took out state 512 MB DDR 2
what should be on the new ones ?
If the system properties state 1GB, it's 1GB. :)
I thought well I am confused so I have just put the original memory in and got on the XP windows info now showing IGB
On properties showing 1 GB
On looking at the modules guess what they look the same 512 MB each module Think I had better get back onto crucial......at least I will always know how to fit RAM had a good lesson
I've got to say I'm very confused, David. I thought you had 512MB originally (2 x 256MB), and now you have 1GB (2 x 512MB)?
How many memory slots have you got, David and which slots have you installed the modules in? I think it does matter, but could depend on your motherboard as to which slots the modules should be installed in.
Im really confused Sebby I have just Emailed Crucial,,The original modules were not ordered until Crucial had run the details I Emailed them.scanner couldn't pick up my pc so to be safe I sent them the details of the make and all the things they wanted.Based on this information and the modules they said they had located for me I duly paid for them and awaited their arrival which as you know was last Saturday.These were wrong,back they went.When I telephoned we went through it all again on the phone and the price difference met etc.Now today these are correct,they fit. but when I read Les post I followed it and then SIW and it wasn't working out and I was confused enough to take out the ones which arrived today and replace with my old ones.My old ones do read 1GB so I looked and compared the labels and they are the same.512 MB
It certainly appears that there is no increase in RAM after all.I think the original order should have been 2 GB and not one,ignoring the wrong modules sent.the error seems to have been on what this machine had on it in the first place and this was based on Crucial s Email to me.
I have Emailed them and asked them to clarify what they have sent me and as my initial request was to double existing RAM I thought that is what they were sending me..........
Quote from: Simon on Jun 20, 2008, 22:34:06
How many memory slots have you got, David and which slots have you installed the modules in? I think it does matter, but could depend on your motherboard as to which slots the modules should be installed in.
2 Simon and I feel I know them intimately. so originally 512 in each...asked to double RAM and you know the rest.......I dont think they have doubled the RAM I think they have duplicated it....despite the Emails and the phone call...
If this is the case for once it is not my error..
OK, so you can't have installed them wrongly, and as it now seems, you've got two RAM modules the same as you had before, but these were supposed to be 1Gb each, and Crucial sent the wrong ones, yes?
Yes Simon what should 1 GB are not they are 512 MB
Just found their original Email to me stating I have 512 MB installed and to order (link) and thats all I have done so 2 errors now.........................and not mine :bawl:
Just sent them their original Email and advised they have in fact sent me what I already have and not the 1GB which they said in the first place.......roll on next week...... :shake:
Quote from: LesD on Jun 20, 2008, 20:49:59
Good work David, :thumb:
Here is another way to get an overview of what you computer build is.
Use:
Start -> Help and Support -> Use Tools to view your computer information ...... -> My Computer Information -> View general system information about this computer
Using this route in XP should show you a picture like the one I have attached below.
Thanks Les if I hadn't carried out that check I may have not discovered this :thumb:
Hi David,
Here (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php) is a little uility that will give you information about your CPU, Motherboard, Memory etc...
It sounds like there's been some confusion. You wanted 2 x 1GB, but Crucial must have interpreted it as 1GB in total.
Thanks Vitriol.I can see where they have gone wrong.They asked me to send the label off the modules I already have to make sure they (crucial) were correct) I had passed these over on the phone and what they appear to have done is got the correct module as they indeed fit perfectly but they have just duplicated and not sent the required RAM ie 2 x 1 GB modules..... :shake:
Next week gets better Im changing a plug on the toaster >:D
Worse things happen at sea I guess
Quote from: Sebby on Jun 20, 2008, 23:28:40
It sounds like there's been some confusion. You wanted 2 x 1GB, but Crucial must have interpreted it as 1GB in total.
Yes Sebby,but this must lay at their feet not mine as they Emailed me my machines spec,(stated earlier)so my ignorance and crossed wires that end has caused this.but I did say on the phone :bawl: :bawl:
Never mind give me something to look forward to.....think I may go to the shop next time and physically see the item so this wont happen again
I know this is a pain in the rear but I think one good thing has come out of it: Since your machine is now running noticeably faster with the same amount of RAM it used to have I think you've pretty much proved there's something wrong with one or both of the old modules and fixed it.
Am I right this machine is a Packard Bell? If so then this wouldn't be the first time I've seen one of their machines where the official spec said the machine had a certain amount of RAM as standard but the actual machine had a different amount. This could be the part of misunderstanding if Crucial read the PB gumph and and it said the machine should have 512MB total.
Cheers,
Paul.
I'm getting confused, David. Unless we're on a different machine, back here (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=7744.msg164371#msg164371) you said you had 512k on the machine.
Me too! ???
What is the make and the part number off the original sticks please?
That I can't give you, Paul, but in the thread referenced above, David said:
QuoteCurrently installed memory:
256MBDDR PC2700 256MBDDR PC2700
Each memory slot can hold DDR PC2700,DDR PC3200 with a maximum of 1GB per slot.*
*Not to exceed manufacturer supported memory.
So it seems you had 512MB before, and 1GB now, David.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 21, 2008, 09:43:39
I'm getting confused, David. Unless we're on a different machine, back here (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=7744.msg164371#msg164371) you said you had 512k on the machine.
I can see why Rik we are indeed on a different machine.when this thread started I was talking about the machine upstairs but decided in the light of the ease of upgrading to us the information on my PB desktop.
The spec sent to Crucial was for this machine and nothing to do with the original pc so I was using the knowledge gained to double the RAM on another machine.
Hope this clears this point up...
Are you sure you sent Crucial the details of the right machine, David? :lol:
Quote from: Dangerjunkie on Jun 21, 2008, 10:44:23
What is the make and the part number off the original sticks please?
Already installed was Micron 8HTF6464AY/53ED7
DDR 2 533 cl4
2 512 x 2 sticks
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jun 21, 2008, 12:55:55
I can see why Rik we are indeed on a different machine.when this thread started I was talking about the machine upstairs but decided in the light of the ease of upgrading to us the information on my PB desktop.
Thanks for that. :thumb:
Quote from: Simon on Jun 21, 2008, 13:01:14
Are you sure you sent Crucial the details of the right machine, David? :lol:
No Simon they sent the details to me.as the scan could not identify my machine they took a week to track down exactly what I had.at no time did I give any information but relied on what they advised I needed.
The Emailed me with we have identified your machine you are currently etc just click this link to order...so thats all I have done...you know the rest.
Quote from: Dangerjunkie on Jun 21, 2008, 07:31:51
I know this is a pain in the rear but I think one good thing has come out of it: Since your machine is now running noticeably faster with the same amount of RAM it used to have I think you've pretty much proved there's something wrong with one or both of the old modules and fixed it.
Am I right this machine is a Packard Bell? If so then this wouldn't be the first time I've seen one of their machines where the official spec said the machine had a certain amount of RAM as standard but the actual machine had a different amount. This could be the part of misunderstanding if Crucial read the PB gumph and and it said the machine should have 512MB total.
Cheers,
Paul.
Yes paul the machine is a PB. has 2 512k memory sticks installed and I just wanted to double the speed.
In reality I just left it to Crucial to do this.I have had a baptism of fire on this.Last week I wouldn't have even know the difference didn't have a clue what I was buying I do now I did wonder when the price was mentioned as I checked the correct sticks late last night and they should have been £23 odd each and these 512 are only £7 odd.a big difference.
So the entire cost will be around £50 with the tax...the first 512k were £32 odd.this decreased to £7..there is a marked difference in the price of these.
I have only for a week been spending a lot of time on "How To "websites and found one which has video film of the main things on a pc.motherboard,ram.bios etc..how to install so Im working hard to ensure a basic understanding and will continue...
If nothing else this is certainly an education.would have been quicker to go and buy another pc ;D
It will get sorted.............
Quote from: Rik on Jun 21, 2008, 13:05:00
Thanks for that. :thumb:
No thanks to all of you for such patience.Im sure Im jinxed with anything to do with pcs.from migrating to changing RAM it should be fairly easy....but the gods at the electronics karma have an unwritten rule...if he tries anything ......throw a big spanner in the work's ;D
As you say, David, it's an education, and at the end of the day, you will have the satisfaction of knowing you have done the upgrade for yourself.
Just as an idle suggestion, if you know of anyone who's throwing out an old PC, or somewhere you could get one for some loose change, it might be worth grabbing it as something just to take to bits and put back together again, so you can see where all the parts go, and how they fit. OK, so newer machines may be different to some degrees, but you would at least get an idea of the principal of how they are put together. :)
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jun 21, 2008, 13:21:13
throw a big spanner in the work's ;D
A feeling I know well, the five minute job which takes two hours...
Got one and doing that as we speak Simon.can identify.Bios Ram.Optic Drives,Ram.hard Drives.Motherboards
.fans and much more so it is getting there.learned that AMD is better for Gaming than Pentium I am really swatting up...taken stuff out of the machine upstairs ans put it back,and it still works..seen how easy it was to fit a graphics card in that machine (which I supplied and was charged over £100 for that...I could do it now in 15 minutes so Im doing a lot of self educating...its very enlightening to see how easy it is to get a modicum of basis understanding of the hardware inside a pc...so something very good will come out.
This final statement will give readers a laugh I have set £ 300 -£500 aside to build my own just to see what spec I will get for this money...it would be easier to go to pc world but I want to do it and decide what goes in from the motherboard to the mouse I want to do it all and if it turns out I waste my money then so be it.......I doubt it though........I never give up
Quote from: Rik on Jun 21, 2008, 13:27:13
A feeling I know well, the five minute job which takes two hours...
I think its called Murphys law ;)
Good heavens, David, you're got more nerve than me. :thumb:
Well I don't Drink and could end up with a nice machine in the knowledge I built it and it should compare with some of the higher range.its the experience I want as long as I don't need to solder I will be ok but from what I see most of it is like the loom of a car and they have never frightened me.....Could end up with a box of parts................then there is always Ebay
it has to be worth a go just for the fun of it....and the knowledge I will never pay over the odds for someone to call. tut and charge me a fortune just to add something and then download drivers to make me think.he is a genius.....
Ignorance has proved expensive for me.
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jun 21, 2008, 13:34:31
This final statement will give readers a laugh I have set £ 300 -£500 aside to build my own just to see what spec I will get for this money...it would be easier to go to pc world but I want to do it and decide what goes in from the motherboard to the mouse I want to do it all and if it turns out I waste my money then so be it.......I doubt it though........I never give up
That's exactly how I felt when I built my first one, David, and to be honest, I had less trouble with that than with the latest one, which, as you will remember, I had the issue with the SATA connectors, among other things, and even now, about one in three times, it fails to start on first attempt. Even so, it's great to sit here working on a machine I know I built myself, with my own choice of components. :)
Thanks Simon already decided on Maplins for a lot of the parts :thumb:
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jun 21, 2008, 13:34:31
This final statement will give readers a laugh I have set £ 300 -£500 aside to build my own just to see what spec I will get for this money...it would be easier to go to pc world but I want to do it and decide what goes in from the motherboard to the mouse I want to do it all and if it turns out I waste my money then so be it.......I doubt it though........I never give up
Novatech have a good bundle on their site at the moment http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MBB-P35842
:karmic: :thnks: Thanks Glenn....
It's a pleasure to help
I don't know if you need a graphics card or not, but ebuyer have a good deal http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/202460/sapphire-hd-4850-512mb-pci-e-graphi/
Great deal, but perhaps an overkill for non-gamers like me. :)
Hi Dave,
There is one gotcha I would share with you (after my friend SNAFUed badly):
The holes you need to screw the motherboard down are not in the same place on all boards. Many cases come with "snap in" plugs with the threads for you to screw the motherboard screws into and the cases have a number of places to snap them in. The idea is you snap the right number in to the correct places in the case for that particular board and then put it in and screw it down.
If you put a snap-in into the wrong place for the board (where it doesn't have a hole) then screw the board down using the others (you won't be able to see the one that is wrong as it's behind the board) you run a very high risk of damaging the motherboard (probably fatally)
I recommend counting the number of fixing holes in the board (twice!), matching them to the holes in the case then putting the snap-ins in the case. Put a piece of red (or other bright colour) electrical tape on every snap-in, make sure the IO-Shield plate (goes round the connectors) isn't fitted to the case then gently lower the board onto the snap-ins and line it up. Then count how many holes you can see the red through and that they all line up. If it's not the number you thought of earlier then check it again. If it's right then take the board out, remove the red tape (important!), put the IO-Shield in then put the board back in gently and screw it down. Be careful not to drag the board over the snap-ins.
It's not difficult but the important thing is not to scratch or short out the board by putting a sharp bit of metal behind it in the wrong place. You'll be fine. Go for it.
Cheers,
Paul.
Been building Pc's for years now, best advice I can give you is
take your time
don't be afraid to check something over more than once
read the manuals
take a break now and again
David, you may find this interesting http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=13433
Nice link, Noreen. :thumb:
Quote from: vitriol on Jun 21, 2008, 18:23:43
Been building Pc's for years now, best advice I can give you is
take your time
don't be afraid to check something over more than once
read the manuals
take a break now and again
Thanks Vitriol.one thing this turn out has taught me is all of the above...have a feeling this could prove addictive more so if successful on the first project :thumb:
you don't know how right you are. The "upgrade" bug has bitten me a few times.
Looking at a watercooling kit at the moment, just need to free up some funds first.
Shouldn't you wait to see if we get a summer first?? ;D :out:
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jun 20, 2008, 23:28:55
Worse things happen at sea I guess
:eyebrow: :whistle:
You've been very quiet the past few days, Jill. Everything OK?
Quote from: J!ll on Jun 21, 2008, 19:00:18
:eyebrow: :whistle:
:eek4: :eek4: :eek4: :eek4:
Quote from: LesD on Jun 20, 2008, 20:49:59
Good work David, :thumb:
Here is another way to get an overview of what you computer build is.
Use:
Start -> Help and Support -> Use Tools to view your computer information ...... -> My Computer Information -> View general system information about this computer
Using this route in XP should show you a picture like the one I have attached below.
8) :thumb:
Quote from: Rik on Jun 21, 2008, 19:01:38
You've been very quiet the past few days, Jill. Everything OK?
Overworked :( dealing with the union ::)
Quote from: J!ll on Jun 21, 2008, 19:03:30
Over-worked :( dealing with the union ::)
:fingers: :fingers:
I think I should be a union rep >:D my research is correct, according to my local rep, who dislikes my team leader :whistle: is standing by :thumb:
Good luck with it Jill :fingers: :fingers:
Quote from: J!ll on Jun 21, 2008, 19:05:16
>:D
All is well nearly back to normal >:D >:D
Normal ;) >:D
:thumb: Magic ;D
Normal? magic ??? >:D
Quote from: vitriol on Jun 20, 2008, 23:12:22
Hi David,
Here (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php) is a little uility that will give you information about your CPU, Motherboard, Memory etc...
A favourite of mine too vitriol! :)
Well worth getting hold of David.
Indeed, CPU-Z is a classic. :)
GPU-Z (http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/1104/TechPowerUp_GPU-Z_v0.2.4.html) is a similar utility but for grapics cards. Handy for keeping an eye on gpu temperature.
I find an app that Noreen posted a few months ago is very helpful SIW http://www.gtopala.com/
nice app, loads of information in there
thanks
RAM upgraded at last the 2 1 GB sticks arrived today and took all of two minutes to install.(have had enough practice)just checked and lo and behold my computer etc reads 2 GB Ram so I think this saga has come to an end.........................unless ? :fingers:
Great news, David. :thumb:
Nice one, David, glad you finally got there. ;) :thumb:
Thanks Rik I kept very silent.the error was on the initial scan they had not flagged that it was an upgrade but I would still use them again and to be honest it didn't break the bank @£12.99 each so although some confusion it all worked out in the end ;)
Quote from: Sheltieuk on Jun 27, 2008, 12:45:11
Nice one, David, glad you finally got there. ;) :thumb:
Thanks Ray I have been busy shopping around looking at various sites with the view to build one,have to increase the budget though as £500 is not enough when I take into account all the parts etc and If I go ahead I would get the best I can afford.not a cheap hobby but still keen on building one... :whistle:
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Jun 27, 2008, 12:50:08
Thanks Ray I have been busy shopping around looking at various sites with the view to build one,have to increase the budget though as £500 is not enough when I take into account all the parts etc and If I go ahead I would get the best I can afford.not a cheap hobby but still keen on building one... :whistle:
It's a very satisfying experience, David, I've done it about 4 times now and not encountered any un-surmountable problems although the air tended to turn blue at times and the language a bit ripe :), they all ended up working OK with no damaged components.
Be careful though once you've successfully done one it can become rather addictive. :) ;)
:think: :comp: batter than Valium and it will keep me amused ;D
I'm glad this is sorted, David. :)
Have you noticed any improvement, David?
Nice one, David! :thumb:
Quote from: Lance on Jun 27, 2008, 13:49:49
Have you noticed any improvement, David?
HI Lance its smother if that makes any sense and a lot quieter the clicking has disappeared completely and a lot quicker in comparison so Im very happy :thumb: :thumb:
That's good then. Worth the effort!!
Quote from: Simon on Jun 27, 2008, 22:00:36
Nice one, David! :thumb:
Great lesson though first time took me 15 minutes by the time I had finished with the 3rd lot,taking out the old and then putting them back I did it in about 3 mins.....pity the 512 I have don't fit my other machine still at least I have the correct part number.lol ;D The one upstairs has just 256 so Im going to put 2GB in that as well.now that should show a real difference.order them on Monday somehow I don't foresee any problems..I wonder why :whistle:
256MB is very low, even for XP. 1GB would probably be fine, but the more the merrier, as they say. :)
;D ;D why not its size that counts don't let them say different ;D
True. ;D
More is better, but more than 3.5gb on a 32bit OS is a waste of money, as 32 bit systems can't address more than that.
Absolutely. :)
Interesting thought, David, but the clicking was probably the hard drive thrashing to keep up with page file demand.
I guessed this Rik,although Im dumb with these things it was the first thing that occurred to me its like its taken all the stress off the hard drive and made its work easier,I assumed it has much less to cope with now,and in theory should extend the life of the Hard Drive perhaps..ok Im guessing but it seems logical.I must say it is a lot faster dealing with the programmes,like photos and any installed programmes it is almost instant.
I don't know if there is much more to learn but Im staying with RAM where my learning is concerned as I want to know exactly about how it relates to the HD and also the role it plays.I have been reading and watching the videos so got an inkling but I don't want to go onto another part of all this before I am ready..that sounds as clear as mud but you may get my drift.
Glenns point is a good way to explain
Ideally, Windows runs everything in RAM, David. When it can't it starts to use the pagefile. That's when you hear the thrashing and see speeds drop. The more RAM you give Windows, up to the limits Glenn sets out, the better it runs. It works better still if you can move the pagefile from the C drive to another physical drive.
I'v been following this thread and thanks for the info in the last few posts :thumb: I've been thinking of adding more Ram but lacked the confidence to do it as every simple task i do these days seems to go belly up. Anyway i took Sebby's advice of earlier and bit the bullet. I ordered an extra 512 MB stick last Thursday from Crucial as recommended by them, £15.26, it arrived this morning and have added it to the existing 2 sticks (both 256MB). From start to finish it took me about 15 minutes. Fired up the PC and it booted as normal, no messages or anything to alter, checked settings and it's showing 1GB. Things are a lot faster now, working on photo's in Photoshop especially. :happy: :thumb:
Great news, Brian. :thumb: Photoshop will use all the RAM you give it.
Thanks Rik, yes i've used Photoshop 7 for a few years but bought Elements 5 because it had the Raw facility and Elements seems to be more resource hungry than PS 7.
There was a time when PShp4 4 couldn't cope with a gig of RAM as Adobe didn't think anyone could afford it. Now it will east as much as you give it. I allow it 85% of my 3.5GB.
Thanks Rik for reminding me, I allowed 40% of my old 512MB so i've just upped the allowance to 70% of my new 1GB ram, should that be ok or would it be ok to allow a bit more?
Quote from: Rik on Jun 28, 2008, 11:54:00
Ideally, Windows runs everything in RAM, David. When it can't it starts to use the pagefile. That's when you hear the thrashing and see speeds drop. The more RAM you give Windows, up to the limits Glenn sets out, the better it runs. It works better still if you can move the pagefile from the C drive to another physical drive.
I have my pagefile disabled. ;)
I've always been told that's bad practice, Seb, as it messes with Windows memory handling.
Agreed Rik, as the OS commits a certain amount of memory to an application that may not eventually be required,so in fact this could lead to a performance decrease as a certain amount of "free" physical memory is unavailable.
Thanks for confirming that, Steve. :)
I've read different things, Rik. What I can say is I've been running it for months without a hitch. The problem is that Windows does use the pagefile even when there is RAM available, so in my case, having 2GB RAM is a waste unless I disable the pagefile.
There are some registry tweaks if you disable the pagefile - perhaps this resolves the problems that disabling it can have?
I guess you could run into trouble though with 2Gb,no pagefile and vista
Quote from: BrianM on Jun 28, 2008, 12:49:10
I'v been following this thread and thanks for the info in the last few posts :thumb: I've been thinking of adding more Ram but lacked the confidence to do it as every simple task i do these days seems to go belly up. Anyway i took Sebby's advice of earlier and bit the bullet. I ordered an extra 512 MB stick last Thursday from Crucial as recommended by them, £15.26, it arrived this morning and have added it to the existing 2 sticks (both 256MB). From start to finish it took me about 15 minutes. Fired up the PC and it booted as normal, no messages or anything to alter, checked settings and it's showing 1GB. Things are a lot faster now, working on photo's in Photoshop especially. :happy: :thumb:
Nice one Brian :thumb: :thumb: wish I had read this forum first ;D :D
I wouldn't even consider doing it on Vista, but it's more than enough for me on XP. I don't do anything RAM-intensive.
Right now, I'm using just 800MB of my 2GB RAM, and that's pretty typical. I just don't need a pagefile slowing me down.
Presumably if you had an issue you would get an out of memory error?
I've no idea what happens if/when Windows runs out of physical memory. If Windows uses up physical memory and virtual memory, I know it says that virtual memory is low and it effectively increases the size of the pagefile. But without one, I don't know. Perhaps it would just crash!
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555223
Useful link, Glenn. :thumb: :karmic:
Thanks Rik, I just thought it would be easier to post the link than trying to explain how it works.
Why re-invent the wheel? ;)
Now I have the second machines side off and see its got a Prescott 800 motherboard fine,and the memory stick I cant find on Crucial DDR333Mhz Cl2.5 hynix so I look on DDR3 cant find the ones which tally with these ones here ;D (you have to smile don't ya
David, it is more than likely DDR 333Mhz Cl2.5 hynix
Late on this thread so missed the previous crucial problems but thought the prescott was an intel processor and ddr3 a relatively new form of ram
Thats the one Glenn Im after upgrading this other machine,at the moment it has only 512 mb 2x 256 sticks and Im hoping to go to 2 Gb 2x 1 GB having problem locating on crucial have not tried the hynix
Quote from: stevethegas on Jun 28, 2008, 20:18:25
Late on this thread so missed the previous crucial problems but thought the prescott was an intel processor and ddr3 a relatively new form of ram
Its ok Steve Im on the other machine now.so you are up to date ;)
What make and model is the motherboard, as it may not be able to access 2gb
It has the name Prescott 800 if this helps Glenn
P4i 65G if this helps Glenn Im guessing this stands for pentium 4 ?
Prescott is the processor socket running at 800Mhz bus speed. Any DDR 333Mhz memory should be OK fine, but it can be hard to find now.
Does the board look like this?
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=P4I65G
:fingers: Hope this works
Looks very much like it Glenn not sure
[attachment deleted by admin]
This is defiantly the correct board Glenn,only just realized to enlarge the photo and its spot on thanks I had better start looking :-[
I think I have found a company and Emailed them they do have the exact specs on memory sticks so hope they confirm...found some on Ebay as well....so should be ok..........but hey its me :whistle:
Good luck, I'm sure it will be fine, you are after all becoming familiar with fitting PC memory now.
:rofl: :ithank: cheers Glenn
Thats like stating Gordon Brown is good with figures ;D
Hi,
Brian: Well done :) You'll find these things aren't too difficult if you get some good advice. I bet you're enjoying having 1GB.
Have you tried GIMP? I prefer it over CS (we have CS at work and I hate it with a loathing, how can it make stuff so difficult?) GIMP also has several raw plugins that enable it to work on raw camera files. It works fine with the CR2 files from my Canon EOS 350D. If you are at a level where you're comfortable with PhotoShop then it shouldn't be too much of a problem to you. GIMP can save your old PSD files and is a freebie so if you don't like it then you can just uninstall it and it hasn't cost you anything other than the time trying it out.
http://www.gimp.org/ (homepage)
http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/ (Windows installer download)
David et al.: Windows swap handling is IMHO broken by design. I have a machine with 4GB RAM and the pagefile still has stuff in it (sometimes more than a gig) when I've only been doing noddy stuff and my RAM usage hasn't gone over a gig since the reboot. There should (by rights) not be anything in the pagefile (as the MS article says) in this case. The worst thing is that the Windows kernel seems to be one of the things that gets swapped for no reason (another thing that IMHO no decent swap mechanism should ever do unless all the RAM is gone and everything is dire, and the other reason I consider it broken.)
If you've got a decent amount of RAM there is a registry hack that prevents XP from swapping the kernel: Go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management and change or create a value "DisablePagingExecutive" as a DWORD with a value of 1. Exit the registry editor and reboot. You should see the difference.
WARNING: This is an XP hack. I don't know what (good or bad) it might do to Vista. It should NEVER be applied to a machine with less than 512MB RAM (I probably wouldn't do it with less than a gig.) If you're not confident to use the registry editor then please seek help as you can break things!
Cheers,
Paul.
Quote from: Dangerjunkie on Jun 29, 2008, 18:13:13
David et al.: Windows swap handling is IMHO broken by design. I have a machine with 4GB RAM and the pagefile still has stuff in it (sometimes more than a gig) when I've only been doing noddy stuff and my RAM usage hasn't gone over a gig since the reboot. There should (by rights) not be anything in the pagefile (as the MS article says) in this case. The worst thing is that the Windows kernel seems to be one of the things that gets swapped for no reason (another thing that IMHO no decent swap mechanism should ever do unless all the RAM is gone and everything is dire, and the other reason I consider it broken.)
If you've got a decent amount of RAM there is a registry hack that prevents XP from swapping the kernel: Go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management and change or create a value "DisablePagingExecutive" as a DWORD with a value of 1. Exit the registry editor and reboot. You should see the difference.
WARNING: This is an XP hack. I don't know what (good or bad) it might do to Vista. It should NEVER be applied to a machine with less than 512MB RAM (I probably wouldn't do it with less than a gig.) If you're not confident to use the registry editor then please seek help as you can break things!
I came across this one a little while back, Paul, but I found it still uses the pagefile unnecessarily (or certainly unnecessarily in my eyes).
As you say, Windows swap handling is broken, and it's for that reason I don't use a pagefile.
Hi! John, Upgrading the ram to 1GB has made a noticeable difference as you will know, think i'll upgrade to 2GB now, memory's fairly cheap now as well. I've been using Photo Shop 5 and 7 for a few years years now also the latest Elements and have grown so used to it, not tried CS though so i can't comment. Tried one or two other prog's but always go back to PS.
Have glossed over reviews about but not considered GIMP but looking at your links it seems i could get my head round it easy enough so i might give it a try, as you say i've nothing to loose John so thanks for the links and comments.
Brian :thumb: