Interesting article here (http://www.trainsignaltraining.com/windows-vista-vs-mac/2008-05-19/) - debunking some of the myths about Vista
It's certainly a different perspective. Now, if he could do one for XP vs Vista... ;D
Well, I like Vista and am glad that I've got it. The only hardware that wouldn't work with it was my old scanner (according to Canon it wasn't possible) but I found a program that got it to work, so now I'm happy. All my old programs that I really want still work after downloading the Help patch from MS. Vista is so pleasing to the eye and is fast on my laptop. ;D
Quote from: madasahatter on May 22, 2008, 17:18:21
Interesting article - debunking some of the myths about Vista
Er, what's Vista? Is it that 'Wow' thing that Bill Gates was banging on about? You know the one that features in the Apple ads as being, well, sort of rubbish...... ;D
Quote from: Rik on May 22, 2008, 17:25:47
It's certainly a different perspective. Now, if he could do one for XP vs Vista... ;D
You're just trying to cause trouble now ain't ya? ;D
Just thought it was refreshing to see an article focussing on the good points of Vista for a change, and proving that it's not the horned beast that so many peeps make it out to be.
I'm a happy Vista user and I don't care who knows it :)
The problem is that the Mac comparison is not really the issue. MS needs to convince XP users, so his take on that would have been more interesting.
Having used vista now for about 6 weeks and going back occasionally to the pc using xp it reminds me very much of when I had an old pc running 98
I wouldn't have changed to Vista when I had my previous XP laptop, XP did all that I wanted it to do so I saw no reason to go to the trouble.
Quote from: Tacitus on May 22, 2008, 17:31:47
Er, what's Vista? Is it that 'Wow' thing that Bill Gates was banging on about? You know the one that features in the Apple ads as being, well, sort of rubbish...... ;D
That's the whole part of the article though Tac - there is so much stuff about how bad Vista is, quite often vague and pretty meaningless. The mac vs PC ads do nothing but jump on the band wagon making Vista a whipping boy, when it isn't and shouldn't be.
All it is, is a new OS - fair enough it may not be perfect, but then what is? It does what an OS is supposed to do - allows you to use your computer - quickly and efficiently in my experience.
Quote from: madasahatter on May 22, 2008, 17:41:38
allows you to use your computer - quickly and efficiently in my experience.
I'll second that :)
Quote from: Rik on May 22, 2008, 17:34:56
The problem is that the Mac comparison is not really the issue. MS needs to convince XP users, so his take on that would have been more interesting.
Take your point Rik. The problem is that I believe that a lot of XP users haven't even tried Vista - they've just believed what they've read and heard. Not blaming them for that - if you know and like XP and you're not having any problems, then you aren't really likely to change are you.
The issue is that such a lot of rubbish has been spread around about Vista, that it will take a long long time to overcome. Rubbish such as "Vista sends information about everything you do direct to MS", and "you can't use p2p with Vista", and "you can only play DRM media on Vista" - these are all things that I've heard and read about Vista which are patently untrue, yet peeps will believe it because so and so told them, and so and so is never wrong etc.
There are many So and Sos in this world. He has been a bit quiet lately. >:D
Quote from: Rik on May 22, 2008, 17:56:15
There are many So and Sos in this world. He has been a bit quiet lately. >:D
:grn: ;D
I think the most accurate measure of whether XP or Vista is the preferred choice of experienced Windows users is to look at which the pirates are downloading most, after all they have a full choice of the options and don't worry about cost.
The pirates prefer XP and you can bet your bottom dollar they will have tried Vista.
I can't think of anything Vista has given me that I wanted. All it meant to me was endless wireless networking problems until SP1 seemed to cure them.
Quote from: madasahatter on May 22, 2008, 17:33:21
You're just trying to cause trouble now ain't ya? ;D
Who, moi? :whistle:
Actually I'm going to have to get used to Vista as the Uni is going over to it next academic year. Given the usual stuff that happens at the beginning of term, it should be fun....
I've got Vista on the laptop and XP on the desktop, both seem OK, occasional blip, but nothing really to shout about with either of them, except the price of course.
I've also got Vista on the laptop and XP on the desktop. On the whole, the desktop is faster, but to be fair, is a higher spec than the lappy. Vista runs OK, but I'm not keen on the file system, and find myself spending a lot of time searching for things that are in a different place to XP.
Quotefind myself spending a lot of time searching for things that are in a different place to XP.
I'd forgotten that, yes it is a pain.
Quote from: Simon on May 22, 2008, 20:31:39
I've also got Vista on the laptop and XP on the desktop. On the whole, the desktop is faster, but to be fair, is a higher spec than the lappy. Vista runs OK, but I'm not keen on the file system, and find myself spending a lot of time searching for things that are in a different place to XP.
Don't forget 'Search' is a lot more comprehensive than it was in XP (unless you have turned off 'Index.dat of course).
It can save you a lot of time if you can remember to use it. I keep forgetting. ::)
Mo
:)
I also find navigating via that navigation bar a pain, and can never work out how to get back to the main drive index without going via My Computer. It's probably quite simple, but I just haven't grasped it yet, and hence, find it annoying.
Quote from: Simon on May 22, 2008, 23:24:19
I also find navigating via that navigation bar a pain, and can never work out how to get back to the main drive index without going via My Computer. It's probably quite simple, but I just haven't grasped it yet, and hence, find it annoying.
I'm not sure if it's what you want Si', but you can always right-click your Main Drive Icon and create a shortcut that you can put where you want. :)
Mo
;)
I have Vista home, XP home and XP64 Pro all installed on my desktop. For me Vista is nothing but a pain, it's slower than both XP's, it uses far more disk space 14.5 gig, compared to 1 gig XP home and 1.6 gig XP64 Pro and yet it does nothing "extra" cept get on your nerves when you want to do something it thinks you shouldn't do.
If all you do is everyday stuff like using word, excel a little browsing or the like then fine it looks pretty and does the job but try doing something out of the ordinary and it complains at you then locks the machine till you stop trying to do what YOU want to do with YOUR machine.
Why have I got Vista you may ask, simple I need to know how it works for when I'm asked to "fix" a machine that has that OS ( and I use the term lightly :eek4: ) installed.
Tony
Quote from: Noreen on May 22, 2008, 17:39:38
I wouldn't have changed to Vista when I had my previous XP laptop, XP did all that I wanted it to do so I saw no reason to go to the trouble.
Exactly Noreen, I think we would all accept that XP was a significant improvement over previous OS's ..however, Vista isn't really that much of an improvement to justify investing in, unless, like you circumstances dictate a change.
Quote from: Simon on May 22, 2008, 20:31:39
and find myself spending a lot of time searching for things that are in a different place to XP.
But surely that's nothing wrong with Vista - it's not a fault with it - just that you are used to XP more than anything. ;)
Quote from: kinmel on May 22, 2008, 19:37:50
I think the most accurate measure of whether XP or Vista is the preferred choice of experienced Windows users is to look at which the pirates are downloading most, after all they have a full choice of the options and don't worry about cost.
The pirates prefer XP and you can bet your bottom dollar they will have tried Vista.
Perhaps a fair point Alan, a lot of them perhaps will have tried Vista - but how many gave it a fair crack of the whip, and how many installed it, couldn't find something because they are so used to XP (as Simon has posted above) and gave up?
At the end of the day, it is obviously each to their own - in my experience Vista does exactly what it says on the tin, and does it very well. I'm not trying to be an evangelist for Vista here, and I'm not saying Vista good XP bad - just that there has been so much total and absolute rubbish talked about it that a lot of peeps won't even give it a fair chance.
Quote from: Inactive on May 23, 2008, 02:06:14
Exactly Noreen, I think we would all accept that XP was a significant improvement over previous OS's ..however, Vista isn't really that much of an improvement to justify investing in, unless, like you circumstances dictate a change.
Tbh In, I've never used any OS before XP, so I wouldn't know how much of an improvement it was over 2000 or Me, but I think you raise a valid point there - I come from the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school.
The reason I'm on Vista now is firstly because I bought a laptop last year - never had a lappy before. having read and heard all about how bad Vista is, i was all ready with my XP disc, but thought I'd give it a chance first. you know what? The more I used Vista the more I liked it.
A few weeks ago I replaced my desktop - it was old and well past it's sell by date. So now I'm totally Vista, and happy as a sand boy.
My point in all this is how many peeps bought a new PC/laptop for whatever reason and taking notice of all they had read and heard (a lot of it from my experience utter bunkum), didn't even give Vista more than a cursory glance - just bunged XP on there without spending any time even thinking about it?
I've heard several peeps say things like "O I hate Vista - can't find anything on it". that's not a fault with Vista - it's just that it's in a different place to XP, and some peeps can't be bothered giving anything 5 minutes before moaning and whinging.
All fair comment Mad, I went from W98 to XP and there were dramatic improvements, the main one being plug & play USB, as far as I recall, also the almost constant BSOD's that happened with W98 all went away.
I guess if I was forced in to Vista like Noreen, I would live with it, however I cannot justify spending money on it.
Quote from: MoHux on May 23, 2008, 00:34:02
I'm not sure if it's what you want Si', but you can always right-click your Main Drive Icon and create a shortcut that you can put where you want. :)
Mo
;)
I've done that already, thanks Mo, but even that requires getting back to the Desktop to use the shortcut. :)
Quote from: Inactive on May 23, 2008, 09:23:54
I guess if I was forced in to Vista like Noreen, I would live with it, however I cannot justify spending money on it.
That's my view, In. Vista came on my laptop, and it seemed silly to pay out for another XP license. I also wanted to have experience of Vista, so as to possibly be of some help to others. For the most part it's OK, but given the choice, I would install XP on a new machine, as indeed I did on my new Desktop. :)
Quote from: madasahatter on May 23, 2008, 06:55:39
Perhaps a fair point Alan, a lot of them perhaps will have tried Vista - but how many gave it a fair crack of the whip, and how many installed it, couldn't find something because they are so used to XP (as Simon has posted above) and gave up?
I've heard several peeps say things like "O I hate Vista - can't find anything on it". that's not a fault with Vista - it's just that it's in a different place to XP, and some peeps can't be bothered giving anything 5 minutes before moaning and whinging.
I am sure you are right, but new software needs to be significantly better than the last one before people are prepared to make the effort of learning how to use it.
I am a first adopter of all things computing and I have XP and Vista as dual boot on a top spec machine and there is next to no difference in performance and abilities between the two, except for the fancy Aero, which was the first thing turned off.
So I stick with XP and have not bothered to put Vista on my other machines and when talking to people I recommend what I use.
It seems many others do the same.
Quote from: kinmel on May 23, 2008, 09:46:20
and there is next to no difference in performance and abilities between the two, except for the fancy Aero, which was the first thing turned off.
Interesting - I love the Aero, which quite possibly
is the main "on the surface" difference between the two. Can I ask why you turned it off? It runs great on my machine.
Quote from: madasahatter on May 23, 2008, 09:49:48
Interesting - I love the Aero, which quite possibly is the main "on the surface" difference between the two. Can I ask why you turned it off? It runs great on my machine.
Same reason as in XP, first thing I do on a new install is turn off all the bells & whistles in
Appearance, except for Cleartype, kill all unused apps in MSConfig etc. All of it is just slowing down the machine, yours would run so much faster without the glitter.
As for Aero being the main difference, you can achieve a similar effect in XP with much lower spec hardware.
Once all the promised improvements were abandoned, Vista was just not different enough to bother with.
It will end up like the Millennium Edition, which made it onto some OEM equipment and died without ever displacing Windows 2000; there are more copies of Win98 in use than Millennium.
Quote from: kinmel on May 23, 2008, 11:30:59
are more copies of Win98 in use than Millennium.
Peeps are
still using Win98? :eek4:
Yes, rather a lot of them. I agree with Alan, I see Vista as following the same path as Me.
Quote from: Rik on May 23, 2008, 11:37:42
Yes, rather a lot of them. I agree with Alan, I see Vista as following the same path as Me.
Possibly so - all I know is that I personally like it - it does everything for me that XP ever did, but with more style :)
Interesting that MS are keeping so quiet about Windows 7 (http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8901)
I predict that Vista will be replaced in the next 12 / 18 months, it isn't the money spinner that MS had hoped for.
That's my view, In. I think it will become a marketing 'bridge' with 7 being the OS vista was meant to be.
Quote from: Inactive on May 23, 2008, 11:43:12
I predict that Vista will be replaced in the next 12 / 18 months, it isn't the money spinner that MS had hoped for.
there were rumours going around that MS were bringing the release date forward......
Well I bought my Assus laptop with Vista Home Premium a few months ago and could not understand what every one was moaning about so I have now changed over to a new desktop computer running the same and so far love it. In the main it is used as a bussiness machine and I can not fault it. ;D
I hate it Den, it is bloated, overloaded with junk that I don't want or need.
XP for me until something really worthwhile turns up.
I have two laptops at work, both the same specifiaction, one XP and one Vista
Celeron 1.6Ghz CPU
512MB Ram
Ati Xpress200 Graphics chipset
80GB HDD
Nothing fancy.
The XP laptop is miles faster than the Vista one. So much so that the Vista laptop only gets used when it is required.
A friend of mine also purchased a new laptop recently, it has Vista Home Premium on it. It has a decent CPU ~2.0GHz but is not a dual core, decent graphics chip in it, 120GB HDD, but only 512MB ram. He called me up a couple of days after he got it. "This laptop is rubbish, it takes ages to do anything with it. I open Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer and it just stops doing anything. Can you do anything with it?
First thing I did was order 2GB Crucial RAM. Put that in and the system runs alot better. A few tweaks to the appearance and his system is much faster now and he seems to be happy with it.
I think that some OEM's should stop crippling their machines by skimping on RAM. In my experience Vista likes a large amount of ram. Anything less than 1GB and the page file just gets hammered. XP runs very well on 512MB, why can't Vista?
Sure it looks pretty but it'll take more than that for me to give up on XP.
MS have given XP an extra six months, I hear.
I'll need to see some major improvement before I decide to jump ship on my personal machines. DX10 is not enough to warrant that jump at the moment.
I'm the same, Vit. I'm not saying Vista is bad, just that what it adds I don't need, so why change. Heck, I still run XP with 'classic' menus and everything but clear type turned off. I'm a memory miser. :)
Quote from: Rik on Oct 05, 2008, 13:11:07
I'm the same, Vit. I'm not saying Vista is bad, just that what it adds I don't need,
Exactly Rik... ;)
I have used Dos, windows 3, 3.11, 95, 98, 98e,Me(Yuk), 200, xp pro and Home. Each one was a vast improvement over the previous OS but there was still some relearning and tweaking to do. In all that time I have never got a Virus etc because Of anti-virus stuff and judicious use of browsing. Each OS seemed to be slower until the hardware was updated but then performed much faster and they have always been stable. I would not upgrade my old machine to Vista because it was not really capable, that Motherboard failed so rather than buy a new MoBo I bought a Gateway Emachine from Bigpockets for £150.00. This had Vista Home Basic, Backup partition and disks etc and so far I have been really pleased with the OS, I installed SP1 and all the latest updates and it works flawlessly. It also had Office 2007 tried it, didn't like it so off it came.
Like the previous OS's it takes a bit of getting used to but is quite easily adapted to. I can install all my old hardware and most importantly Photoshop 7 , Office xp and other essential applications. The only problem Has Been Outlook which will not hold email passwords otherwise no problems with it.
This machine came with 512Mb memory which runs Vista well enough but more memory will be better as will a dedicated graphics card rather than the intergrated on. That will be rectified in the near future though.
So as an experienced user of XP I find the change to Vista quite easy and it will be as good an OS as XP when I have all the tweaks and upgrades completed. I find that I no longer need all the extras of XP Pro and Vista Basic is more than adequate. It found my home network easily and set itself up quickly.
My laptop runs Vista Ultimate, it's fast and I love it. ;D
Mine does too :thumb:
I'm on windows XP and only go back as far as windows 98 so thanks for your post Alf, interesting :thumb:
I started life with a Comodore 64 then the 128 then the Amiga 1200 and then to the wonderland of Windows 95 which was like stepping backwards in time as it was noware near as good as Workbench on the Amiga but would run a decent accounts package. Then of course onto W98 and from there to XP. Each stage was a learning curve but I felt that with all the bad vibes coming out about Vista I would wait awhile.
As I have it on both the laptop and desktop and both with 2gb of memory I can truly say I don't know what all the fuss is about. ;D
The moans come form the same people who harked back to win98se when xp came out, same arguements and concerns. Xp was much better when SP2 was introduced. That's life. ;D
Some people just like to moan and don't like change :eyebrow:
Quote from: Den on Oct 05, 2008, 20:31:15
Some people just like to moan and don't like change :eyebrow:
I love a good moan Den don't you? :)
Right now being a Vista rookie of a week or three I am saying nothing except I have my good old XP Pro box sitting along side the new Vista one with a KVM switch between the two and I am glad I have!
The switch that is not Vista. ;)
My XP box is on the floor and not plugged in at the moment and thats where I hope it stays untill I pass it on to my son. I think the bigest problem is that we like the machine we have and want Vista to run on it with little or no extra expense. In my case I bought the HP machine so cheaply I would have had to pay almost as much just for Vista Home Premium. :D
Quote from: Den on Oct 05, 2008, 21:04:40
My XP box is on the floor and not plugged in at the moment and thats where I hope it stays untill I pass it on to my son. I think the bigest problem is that we like the machine we have and want Vista to run on it with little or no extra expense. In my case I bought the HP machine so cheaply I would have had to pay almost as much just for Vista Home Premium. :D
No argument Den, HP machines have a good reputation and for the price you paid you got a bargain with Vista too. We use HP's exclusively in our Lab. at work. 12 of the beasts I updated them all last week, 5 Desktops, a Tower, 5 Laptops and the Proliant Server. You can get just a wee bit tired of the relentless number of Windows Genuine Advantage KBxxxxxx that MS chuck at you. In six months since the last full update it was on average three per machine. There as I said earlier I like a good moan! ;D
BTW my OEM Vista Home Premium was £58 from MicroDirect collected.
I am sure that there were significant improvements going from 98SE to XP, the plug and play USB being the main one, sadly I cannot think of any significant such improvements in Vista.
I like the sidebar and photo gallery, also the calander is useful. I normally use Office xp but find the built in stuff quite useful. Even with 512Mb memory it is now behaving quite snappily and no signs of blue screens etc yet. :fingers:
There are many under the hood improvements, better handling of multicore cpu's a stronger kernel, a new and more robust tcp/ip stack, protected mode for IE7, intergrated search, better user interface, windows photo gallery, snipping tool, sidebar with some great gadgets, better power management with many settings to get what you really want out of it, no matter what you say UAC is great to not run as full admin but still be able to do all you need, Direct X 10.1, voice recognition which is fun to use for typing with no hands, opening programs and using commands all with vocal commands and is indispensable for many disabled people. I could go on.
What really bugs me is people forget what XP was like with sp1 it had bugs was a security nightmare people hated it moaned about its issues and the number of flaws and patches, pre sp1 it was bloody awful, I love Vista it runs fast does what I want with ease and more style also its a young OS, people so easily forget the past. Windows 7 will be built off Vista as well so its not such a huge upgrade as Vista was from XP.
After running Vista since March I can leave it running for days without reboots, its more stable its faster and its good at doing what it says, and makes imho XP Pro look and act dated, something I never would have thought I would ever say.
I love Vista ;D
When I first got Vista, I spent days trying to make it look and feel like what I was used to, XP, I got rid of the Gadgets, and installed all my old programs, and now have it how I like it, but my XP desktop is definitely still quicker.
But none of those listed Gary are " significant " improvements in my book, I still far prefer XP.
XP is significantly faster than Vista.
To each his / her own, as they say. ;)
I think you may be right in my case In but as I never really got used to XP I found Vista easier for someone with my limited experience....Its easier to use and understand and seemss to date XP
Quote from: Inactive on Oct 06, 2008, 10:34:46
But none of those listed Gary are " significant " improvements in my book, I still far prefer XP.
XP is significantly faster than Vista.
To each his / her own, as they say. ;)
XP is not faster than Vista here In ??? but those improvements are fine by me, I would not go buy Vista if I had XP but with a new pc built for Vista with the right specs its fine, I think even with windows 7 I won't rush out and buy it either, in the end only if it comes with a new pc and I can't see myself buying a new one for many years now. :) The upgrade game is to expensive, better things to spend your cash on than new gadgets all the time that are out of date within a few months. I would prefer a damn good holiday ;D
It seems the differing "sides" are appearing once again. When windows 7 does make an appearance it seems it will be stripped down without IE, and such like; just a bare OS for which you will be able to get add ons from online. These add ons can be from anyone though. For example use Firefox, Thunderbird and not have to worry about any MS stuff at all. The only problem I can envisage is MS charging for their add ons as they will probably be enhanced to justify the cost. Just my view. :whistle:
I reckon Windows 7 will, like all before, need more resources just for it to run at a reasonable speed, progress...?? ;)
Quote from: cavillas on Oct 06, 2008, 10:42:16
It seems the differing "sides" are appearing once again. When windows 7 does make an appearance it seems it will be stripped down without IE, and such like; just a bare OS for which you will be able to get add ons from online. These add ons can be from anyone though. For example use Firefox, Thunderbird and not have to worry about any MS stuff at all. The only problem I can envisage is MS charging for their add ons as they will probably be enhanced to justify the cost. Just my view. :whistle:
More than likely Alf, I can't see Microsoft giving anything away, after all blood and stones come to mind when I think of that company ;)
Quote from: Inactive on Oct 06, 2008, 10:45:13
I reckon Windows 7 will, like all before, need more resources just for it to run at a reasonable speed, progress...?? ;)
In some ways use
Quote from: Inactive on Oct 06, 2008, 10:45:13
I reckon Windows 7 will, like all before, need more resources just for it to run at a reasonable speed, progress...?? ;)
Like a sports car needs more fuel In when we are told to cut down the carbon footprint? I see your point, but also to do the things now you can with a pc on the media side you need more resources anyway. In the end though enough is enough, and I'm happy with what I have, also I have more pressing needs than Windows 7 in my life ;)
Quote from: Killhippie on Oct 06, 2008, 10:46:55
More than likely Alf, I can't see Microsoft giving anything away, after all blood and stones come to mind when I think of that company ;)
It depends on how strong their desire for dominance remains...
Providing there isn't a raft of compatibility issues, I think it would be great if W7 shipped 'bare bones', but equally, I could see people getting into trouble with it. It should at least have an enhanced Security Centre, which would prevent network access, without adequate protection.
I think Vista sounds good on paper. All the new features you mention, Gary, sound great, but I found that they don't do anything in practice. SuperFetch, indexing... They all just slow the machine down. I find Vista so slow that I wouldn't consider using it again.
Quote from: Simon on Oct 06, 2008, 10:51:43
Providing there isn't a raft of compatibility issues, I think it would be great if W7 shipped 'bare bones', but equally, I could see people getting into trouble with it. It should at least have an enhanced Security Centre, which would prevent network access, without adequate protection.
Sometimes Simon a cabin, small community and no pc's would be heaven I think :sigh: Im disillusioned with our throw away society, but if I had to take a pick I would say mobile computing will kick off more and more, with handhelds being more popular for basic usage, and that would suit me.
A bare bones OS would be very attractive to me, and doubtless many others here, but I can't see it succeeding as a mass market product. Which suggests that most OEMs would actually provide an additional package of apps to bring it back up to current levels.
Quote from: Sebby on Oct 06, 2008, 10:54:29
I think Vista sounds good on paper. All the new features you mention, Gary, sound great, but I found that they don't do anything in practice. SuperFetch, indexing... They all just slow the machine down. I find Vista so slow that I wouldn't consider using it again.
They don't slow mine down Sebby but I have a modern PC with pretty good specs, saying that Justina's laptop is fast as XP was on her old 2GB ram Toshiba, the one with with vista on has 3GB ram and a 2.1ghz core2duo and flies along.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 06, 2008, 10:56:47
A bare bones OS would be very attractive to me, and doubtless many others here, but I can't see it succeeding as a mass market product. Which suggests that most OEMs would actually provide an additional package of apps to bring it back up to current levels.
One thing I hate is all the cr@p that comes on some machines Rik, god forbid what OEM's would but on it, mine came with Vista and Nero and that was it, no security or anything which was great so I did not have to spend ages uninstalling rubbish I will never use
I notice that Dell were pushing Norton on QVC yesterday. They obviously don't realise that would put some of us off. ;)
Quote from: Killhippie on Oct 06, 2008, 10:59:09
They don't slow mine down Sebby but I have a modern PC with pretty good specs, saying that Justina's laptop is fast as XP was on her old 2GB ram Toshiba, the one with with vista on has 3GB ram and a 2.1ghz core2duo and flies along.
Fair enough Gary, but all of those additional resources/cost just to go at the same speed doesn't add up to me.
I wonder what would have happened to Vista if memory prices had have surged through the roof.?
It couldn't have been much worse, In, given that MS has allowed OEMs to offer XP upgrades for another six months. ;)
Quote from: Inactive on Oct 06, 2008, 11:04:04
Fair enough Gary, but all of those additional resources/cost just to go at the same speed doesn't add up to me.
I wonder what would have happened to Vista if memory prices had have surged through the roof.?
To be honest In, as I said a damn good holiday seems more fun to me than a pc, I just need to be able to get in a car to get to a boat to have one ;D Someday soon I'll get it, and all that technology means nothing when you realise quality of life is what really counts :) Its a bit like the Mobile phone must upgrade crowd, I used to do that but now the new N96 is no better than the N95 8GB it has a smaller battery and no more real features, the new Samsung i8510 which is a new variant on a series 60 like the N95 was but with 8 megapix camera, to be honest I don't care what I have works and I like it, I'm not upgrading to fill the pockets of marketing men and huge corporations when there is no need, its all a push to have what we don't really need, the latest and greatest must be better they tell us, which is not always the case :shake:
Quote from: Killhippie on Oct 06, 2008, 11:19:04
, and all that technology means nothing when you realise quality of life is what really counts :)
Got it in one Gary.. :thumb:
Quote from: Inactive on Oct 06, 2008, 11:23:58
Got it in one Gary.. :thumb:
Indeed, In :thumb:
Quote from: Killhippie on Oct 06, 2008, 11:19:04
......... all that technology means nothing when you realise quality of life is what really counts :)
Given the current economic shambles which will not go away any time soon, I suspect it's something we are all going to have to rediscover.
Back to the fifties is hardly a good election campaign slogan, but it may be the most accurate.
I fear you could well be right Tac. :(
Quote from: Tacitus on Oct 06, 2008, 18:59:34
Back to the fifties is hardly a good election campaign slogan, but it may be the most accurate.
The 50s, for me, were characterised by a much stronger sense of community, mutual respect, a willingness to share and a marked absence of trying to go one better than those around you. Altogether, not a bad goal to aim for, Tac.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 07, 2008, 09:44:47
The 50s, for me, were characterised by a much stronger sense of community, mutual respect, a willingness to share and a marked absence of trying to go one better than those around you. Altogether, not a bad goal to aim for, Tac.
Something I have never really experienced Rik, except when on tour maybe as the crew became a community and that worked well, with each person respecting the other or it would all fall apart and sharing space and knowledge you had a great sense of camaraderie on tour for three months plus and it was refreshing to deal with issues in a grown up manner , I yearn for these things these days, not the hollow plastic buy this new toy to take your mind off how cr@p things really are ploy. I have reached a stage due to many varying forces in my life, that make me sick of being force fed this garbage. There is so much more out there if you reach for it, this forum in many ways is that to me, a community, yes we have our disagreements and occasional flamewars, but people really group together to help and share who they are, and what they know. I just wish I could find this in a non binary form :sigh:
That's the problem, Gary, it's very much harder to find it in the real world. :(
Quote from: Rik on Oct 08, 2008, 08:08:52
That's the problem, Gary, it's very much harder to find it in the real world. :(
I think that's why I like it here, its harder these days to spend more time here due to my back issues, but its a special place I love to be in :)
I know just what you mean - but now I'm off to the optician's. ;)
Quote from: Rik on Oct 08, 2008, 08:22:31
I know just what you mean - but now I'm off to the optician's. ;)
see you later ;D
:grn:
I have a vision... ;D
6/6. :P
My input here on Netters is not great but I read all the posts, the questions asked, the help and advice that's given, the understanding of people's problems and encouragement given and of course the general discussions where peeps can agree/disagree have fun and still remain friends. Like you Gary this also is a special place for me, long may it remain so.
:happy:
:cheers2: Brian. :karma:
Well :ithank: Rik. Just seen the new Welcolme sign wow :ok:
New welcome, cheers and pizza, Brian. Two out of three on the subject of food and drink. :)
Food and drink! Can never have too many of those if only to act as reminders, as if folks on here need any reminding ;D
Not me, that's for sure. :)
:cheers2: Hik! :rofl:
There was a time, when trains ran on steam, that I used to enjoy hacking (for want of a better term) into an operating system to see what what I could improve upon or generally break. These days I want an operating system that simply gives the best possible interface between me and the infernal machine. I installed Vista on this PC in full knowledge of the criticisms but in general I like to move with the times and felt Vista was the way to go.
My initial reaction on booting up for the first time was a little bit hmmm, so much drive space taken for so little to see. Like a lot of users I cursed the perpetual nag screens that are part and parcel of the UAC and clenched my teeth in frustration as I searched for that elusive file I'd just saved. However I also had this overriding feeling that there was something missing and it wasn't until I read this thread that I realised what.
Aero!
One Google later, a few clicks and up it pops. While it does very little to improve productivity it does in my opinion give the UI a much more visual appeal and a general feeling that things have moved on a little from XP. Now this PC is fairly well specified so it did strike me as odd that Aero wasn't automatically set as the default interface but then again I built the PC myself and installed Vista. However since I made this discovery I've already found three people with new, well specified, off the shelf PCs (pre installed with Vista), who also never knew Aero existed. In fact none of these systems had 'Show window contents while dragging' enabled.
It seems to me we are living in a world were hype and imagery often triumph over substance so I find it hard to understand why Microsoft have chosen to not have Aero as the default UI. I'm sure this must be the case because I've just installed Vista on my daughter's PC and again no Aero or windows content dragging by default.
It just makes me wonder how many other users there are out there that are sitting in front of a fairly bland interface on PCs that could easily cope with Aero's overheads. It also makes me wonder why Microsoft has buried the facility to switch on all the visual bells and whistles so deeply. Try and find the switch to enable/disable windows contents while dragging and you'll seen what I mean.
I'll climb down from my soap box now. Thanks for listening if you got this far ;D
Windows makes sure your graphics card can cope with Aero interface and is compatible by testing the performance of all areas on install, ram performance, harddrive performance cpu performance and GPU performance, then gives you a score, if it considers aero will tax your system to much it shuts it down, what's your windows experience base score? Mines 5.7 and all features were enabled by default the gpu score is is 5.9 along with the ram at 5.9, lowest being harddrive at 5.7.
See this link for why show windows content while dragging may be disabled to increase performance http://www.msfn.org/board/Vista-tweaks-t112029.html&pid=737717 in fact google it and you will get lots of answers, its all performance related
It's 5.9 across the board for me. I also had one of the other users run the base score test and he got the same result, 5.9. Perhaps there's a common component that's not reporting back to the test procedure correctly? These are the major parts in my PC:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 LGA775 'Yorkfield' 2.66GHz 12MB-cache (1333FSB) Processor - Retail
Asus Maximus Extreme Intel X38 (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard
OCZ 2GB DDR3 PC3-16000C9 2000MHz Platinum Enhanced Bandwidth (2x1GB) Dual Channel DDR3
Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB GDDR5 TV-Out/Dual DVI/HDMI (PCI-Express) - Retail
Samsung SpinPoint F1 750GB SATA-II 32MB Cache - OEM
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Oct 10, 2008, 07:50:11
It's 5.9 across the board for me. I also had one of the other users run the base score test and he got the same result, 5.9. Perhaps there's a common component that's not reporting back to the test procedure correctly? These are the major parts in my PC:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 LGA775 'Yorkfield' 2.66GHz 12MB-cache (1333FSB) Processor - Retail
Asus Maximus Extreme Intel X38 (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR3 Motherboard
OCZ 2GB DDR3 PC3-16000C9 2000MHz Platinum Enhanced Bandwidth (2x1GB) Dual Channel DDR3
Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB GDDR5 TV-Out/Dual DVI/HDMI (PCI-Express) - Retail
Samsung SpinPoint F1 750GB SATA-II 32MB Cache - OEM
Similar specs to mind I have a QX 9650- Nvidia 790sli ultra mobo, 4GB corsair dominator DDR3 at 1666mhz and a Nvidia GTX280, with two seagate 500gb perpendicular drives, all soon to be changed for the x58 when it hits the shelf thanks to my pc manufacturer as Nvidia boards are pants, and I have many issues with it so by December it will be new proc new mobo and new gpu at no extra cost :thumb:, really odd yours was not set to enable all effects as it should have been ???
I always thought Aero was a chocolate bar. ;D
Can somebody please enlighten me to what Aero is in relation to pcs in dummy language please.?
It's that Apple-esque 'rotating windows' display, Lona.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 10, 2008, 17:29:43
It's that Apple-esque 'rotating windows' display, Lona.
I'm none the wiser, Rik. I've never had a rotating windows display.
Mmm. As I don't use Vista, I'm not the best person to describe it probably, but afaik, you need to activate it and it only works if your machine can cope with the graphics demands.
I've got it enabled but as far as I am aware only ever used it once :)
It's always been one of those things that I've looked at and thought, "what would I actually use it for...", Steve.
In my case squinting at open windows which are sideways on,its like trying to read a book which is half shut.
I'm good at that. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Oct 10, 2008, 17:50:46
I'm good at that. ;D
Time for Vista then ;D
Lona, this might help. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/experiences/aero.mspx
Thanks Noreen. I don't think I will have aero as it's only available for premium or business vista. I only have vista home edition. :(
There is a registry tweak to activate aero in vista basic http://www.computing.net/answers/windows-vista/vista-home-basic-aero-glass/931.html
Thanks Steve. What happens if I do this then don't want to use it.?
Have a look at this Lona, just to give you some idea about Aero.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=63cCGM_le-Y
There's no dialogue, so you can turn the audio off if you want.
Quote from: Lona on Oct 10, 2008, 18:59:07
Thanks Steve. What happens if I do this then don't want to use it.?
I wonder if the reg hack changes the basic to a premium product which may have future licence issues???
If you don't like aero you just change to a non aero desktop
It appears I had aero all the time as I home premium. I don't see any difference except having flip3D.
Dunno what this glass screen is that's being referred to.
The edges of windows are said to have glass like effect :)
Maybe I need glasses then as windows just looks the same to me. ;D
You can see through the borders of the windows. Examples shown on that link that I gave above.
It's just a bit of transparency round the edges, Lona. I'm not sure, as I'm not on the Vista machine at the moment, but if you go into Desktop Properties > Personalisation, you might be able to adjust the 'see-through-ness' of the window borders.
You can. Vista refers to it as "transparency". You can also switch to Vista basic theme, which gets rid of transparency altogether.
Quote from: Simon on Oct 11, 2008, 20:36:47
It's just a bit of transparency round the edges, Lona. I'm not sure, as I'm not on the Vista machine at the moment, but if you go into Desktop Properties > Personalisation, you might be able to adjust the 'see-through-ness' of the window borders.
Sounds to me like a good window cleaner is required. :out: :)x
Quote from: Noreen on Oct 11, 2008, 17:51:46
You can see through the borders of the windows. Examples shown on that link that I gave above.
Sorry Noreen, I just don't get it. I've read all that's on that link and I can understand the 3D flip and thumbnails on the taskbar but I don't get this glass window effect. My desktop just looks the same as any other desktop.
Possibly your graphics card doesn't support Aero fully, Lona?
Try here Lona: http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-us/help/c33fe91a-9e6f-41f4-ae82-3ed2d5fa2fbf1033.mspx
Nice link, Steve. :thumb:
Checked all in power options and It states I have balanced power options. I have aero chosen as my colour scheme. Still don't get this glass thingy.
My computer gets a reading of 5 for performance so maybe I'm expecting something spectular to show.
Great link btw Steve. :thumb:
I have to confess that I always turn all bells and whistles off when I get a machine, Lona. I don't find myself greatly attracted by fancy graphics and colour schemes, I like it simple but good.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 12, 2008, 17:16:06
I have to confess that I always turn all bells and whistles off when I get a machine, Lona. I don't find myself greatly attracted by fancy graphics and colour schemes, I like it simple but good.
Same here, Rik. Can't be bothered with the side thing on vista showing a big clock. It was the first thing I turned off.
I know just what you mean. HP sold a program way back called Dashboard which did more or less the same. I couldn't see a use for it then.