Well my connection has been fine and stable for a while now..
Until the last few days.
I have been getting quite a few resyncs throu the day and night.
This morning is quite bad.
My noise margin is all over the place and i've just got disconnected and reconnected at
Connection Speed 608 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 35 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 12 db 16 db
I then reboot the router. This then connected at 6080 kbps with margin at 12 and after a few secs my sync drops and connects lower again.
Connection Speed 3616 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 39 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 12 db 26 db
My line is doing my head in :rant2:
Have you done all the usual things, Paul, to eliminate your own wiring? If so, have a word with support and get BT on the case, that line is flapping badly.
It sounds like there are some serious surges of noise. Have you tried the test socket?
not tried test socket yet, will do that later but i've tried all the rest.. not much i can try thou tbh..
Its a filtered faceplate, a shielded rj11 goes from the faceplate to the router (1.5m cable) and the pc's are connected with ethernet.
So its can only be a dodgy router, faceplate or a bt problem.
It's likely, in that case, that it's a BT problem.
support can't find no faults. they've passed it onto BT now, waiting for an update.
Connection Speed 2080 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 38 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 11 db 23 db
Thats my current stats, i've been getting 6500 kbps at 12 SNR with no problems for ages and now it wont go above 3000 kbps :(
Also noticed that the Line Attenuation is changing with every resync, its never changed before since i went onto max bb. always been at 39.
Also upstream noise margin is going up and down and that used to be stable and never moved from 29.
Fluctuating upstream SNRM is a real sign of very strange noise activity.
That sync speed for an attenuation of just 38db suggests major noise, Paul. Even I manage 3520 on a 56.8db line.
Paul, that sounds like the same type of issues I am having, yesterday support logged a case with BT again.
Still waiting to hear back from support..
Its becoming a joke now and my SNR has been pushed up to 15 from 12 now :(
:rant2:
Unfortunately, in a situation like this where the fault lies with BT in one way or another, IDNet's hands will be tied. :(
Quote from: psp83 on May 09, 2008, 08:43:33
Its becoming a joke now and my SNR has been pushed up to 15 from 12 now :(
That says your line is flapping, Paul. :(
I picked the phone up before i went to work this morning and it was very noisy.. sign of a line fault somewhere?
It certainly is - but report it to BT voice services.
And don't mention ADSL!
i'll double check the filter first when i get home where sky extensions plug into the filter and the phone plugs into the sky splitter, if its still noisy with the phone plugged straight into the wall socket then i'll contact BT voice.
whats the number for fault checking again?
The quiet line test is 17070 - option 2 I think :)
It is. :)
Theres no fault on the line.
i disconnected everything from the wall socket, plugged the router back in then plugged the phone in, The phone was hissing and popping. I then disconnected the router and the phone went clear. Connected the router again and the noise was back.
You can also hear a slight noise in the background, just like the old dialup modems made when connecting.
Connection Speed 1568 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 37 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 13 db 23 db
Connection Speed 3072 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 39 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 8 db 27 db
Connection Speed 1216 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 36 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 15 db 25 db
Connection Speed 5728 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 39 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 15 db 26 db
Line is still all over the place. Don't know what to do now :-\
To me, that sounds like a faulty filter (though it could be the router). Do you have another filter to try?
Buy a new filter? The symptoms are classic for a filter failure.
The faceplate is filtered so i will take it of and plug a normal filter into the test socket.. I have 7 normal filters to try, if none of them fix the problem what should i do next?
Try doubling them, Paul. If you still have a problem, you'll need an SFI engineer to resolve it.
Or it could be the router...
True. Have you tried an alternative, Paul?
I haven't got a spare router :( but if you remember, i've had problems like this since joining IDnet.. since then i've had 3 different routers, 2 netgears and a 2wire.. all 3 suffered from re syncs and up/down margin.
I've tried 5 different filters in the test socket, still get re syncs and everytime i tried the phone, it would drop my connection aswell.. i've also tried a 2nd phone and the same happened.
only thing i haven't tried is a different router.
Connection Speed 1568 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 37 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 13 db 23 db
Connection Speed 3072 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 39 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 8 db 27 db
Connection Speed 1216 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 36 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 15 db 25 db
Connection Speed 5728 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 39 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 15 db 26 db
Connection Speed 2464 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 38 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 15 db 26 db
Connection Speed 0 kbps 0 kbps
Line Attenuation 39 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 2147483646 db 27 db
Last one was when the phone was used
Well I've got a spare Netgear if you want it for the price of the postage...Not much help right now but if your prepared to wait for it then who knows..
Quote from: jester212 on May 10, 2008, 13:47:53
Well I've got a spare Netgear if you want it for the price of the postage...Not much help right now but if your prepared to wait for it then who knows..
Thanks, I'll see what support says on monday, as its a router i bought of them last time to take my older router out of the question. If they say try another one, they might offer me a test one like last time if not i might take you up on it or they might get BT out straight away as this problem has been on going now for ages and then it clears up for a while when BT comes out and prods around but comes back again.
I swear they are doing it just to get another £169 out of me :rant2: never liked BT.
Okay, I didn't realise you've tried other routers. In that case, I think we can safely rule out the router as the cause. I also find it unlikely that this is a filter issue as you have a filtered faceplate, but it's worth a try.
Could it be the phone? Have you got another one to try? Do you get re-syncs if the phone is unplugged?
I've tried 2 phones with 5 different filters plugged into the test socket, still happens :-\
The re syncs tend to die down as the evening comes but starts up again in the morning. it seems to be when the heat starts building up i get sync problems but as it gets cooler my sync stables
Could be something to do with the cable duct expanding, I suppose...
Quote from: psp83 on May 10, 2008, 16:32:27
I've tried 2 phones with 5 different filters plugged into the test socket, still happens :-\
It's a really, really bizarre issue. I think we've seen something similar in the past, which turned out to be a line issue (it starts getting too technical for me, what with voltage etc).
HR faults can do odd things, but that usually shows as ADSL starting to work when the phone rings.
so the question is.. do you think this is a case for a BT engineer to come out for ? Knowing my luck, it'll be a cold raining day when one comes out and the connection is fine :(
It depends on whether your line is performing above your FTR, Paul. To judge by recent behaviour, they won't come out if it is.
What could be causing the phone issue thou? I dont want my connection dropping everytime the phone is used :(
I've got absolutely no idea, Paul, but to be honest, I don't believe it can be anything to do with your equipment/setup. Realistically, the only option is to get BT out. :(
The standard answer to that is faulty filter, followed by faulty phone. If you've eliminated both, then you need BT out, but you may end up with a bill if it doesn't happen for them. :(
Quote from: Rik on May 10, 2008, 17:39:42
The standard answer to that is faulty filter, followed by faulty phone. If you've eliminated both, then you need BT out, but you may end up with a bill if it doesn't happen for them. :(
I've tried 2 phones and 5 filters (same ones) for both and happened everytime. I will go try the phone again and see if it happens again since its later and the temp has dropped.
Does the phone improve when the re-syncs stop?
It didnt drop the connection this time but the margin went straight out the window..
Connection Speed 5888 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 39 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 2147483646 db 26 db
The bigger number means a negative margin right?
Margin was on 15 before the phone got picked up..
Will try again later tonight to see if its different and i will try again tomorrow when the heat is there again.
Quote from: Rik on May 10, 2008, 17:45:51
Does the phone improve when the re-syncs stop?
You mean the noise? If the broadband is disconnected its clear. with the broadband connected its noisy for a few secs then clears up when it de/re syncs.
That's a -2db margin, Paul, which straight after a re-sync is very unusual. You must have massive noise around to cause that.
As to the phone, you're still describing classic filter problems. Is it a DECT unit?
Quote from: Rik on May 10, 2008, 17:51:39
That's a -2db margin, Paul, which straight after a re-sync is very unusual. You must have massive noise around to cause that.
As to the phone, you're still describing classic filter problems. Is it a DECT unit?
Nothing has changed in the house to cause any noise. same stuff we had months ago when it was fine, only thing that has changed is builders next door and the weather.
Have no idea.. its a phone to me lol..
Its years old and connects with a cable (not wireless) same as the 2nd phone that was tried (this one was only used for about 2 wks in its lifetime)
OK, so it's not DECT (cordless) so that's another source of noise ruled out.
I think you've got to get BT out, maybe the builders have damaged the cable. :(
Quote from: Rik on May 10, 2008, 18:03:38
OK, so it's not DECT (cordless) so that's another source of noise ruled out.
I think you've got to get BT out, maybe the builders have damaged the cable. :(
The cable does go through there scaffolding and they've had bricks near the line aswell.
It wouldn't take much to create a bit of damage so that the circuit was leaking to earth or HR. Do tell support about that.
Quote from: Rik on May 10, 2008, 18:09:52
It wouldn't take much to create a bit of damage so that the circuit was leaking to earth or HR. Do tell support about that.
I've got quite a long email put together with all the different stuff i've done today and what i've noticed about the time off day and heat etc. I'll add about the scaffolding before i send it tomorrow.
Waiting till tomorrow would be a good idea. ;)
My sync is still dropping :(
Connection Speed 160 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 36 db 13.5 db
Noise Margin 21 db 7 db
Just looked at the log and it says since last reboot (yesterday afternoon) i've had 15 re syncs.
The phone is not disconnecting me no more. So i don't know why it started yesterday and then stopped.
No internet showing on my 2700 for over an hour. Just came back around 5 mins ago.
I did trot around to the exchange to see if there were any workers there .... nope!!
On dsl4 btw.
I don't think this prob can be aimed at BT (which makes something of a monumental change).
I've been in touch with Tim to check any problems on DSL4 - nothing is showing at their end, so it could be the BT radius server. Drop support an email, that way they can investigate each case.
Quote from: psp83 on May 11, 2008, 12:38:21
My sync is still dropping :(
Connection Speed 160 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 36 db 13.5 db
Noise Margin 21 db 7 db
Just looked at the log and it says since last reboot (yesterday afternoon) i've had 15 re syncs.
The phone is not disconnecting me no more. So i don't know why it started yesterday and then stopped.
You're now sync'd at the lowest rate that ADSL max can sync at, and with attenuation like yours, this suggests a serious issue.
I think you've got no choice other than to have an engineer out. You've ruled out anything on your side being the cause pretty much, and there's no way you can go on like this. :(
I concur - this has to be a BT issue.
Quote from: Rik on May 11, 2008, 13:03:31
I've been in touch with Tim to check any problems on DSL4 - nothing is showing at their end, so it could be the BT radius server. Drop support an email, that way they can investigate each case.
I'll keep the times of the event, if it goes t*ts up again I'll email.
jftr my internet connx went down every saturday @ lunchtime for 30 mins + when I was using a dg834Gv2. This scenario continued for months on end so I timed the shopping to coincide with the drop. 8). This is the 1st time my 2700 has done it.
Speeds back to norm .... 8128/448. Down 20db att 8.4. Up 25db att 6.
Read the other mentions of dsl4 so will email accordingly.
I bet BT will find "nothing" wrong "again" :rant2:
If they do find something wrong, i hope they reset my default noise margin after they put it up manually :-\
Argh!!! a reboot didnt force my profile to go higher this time :(
The Performance Tester is now testing Broadband connection. Your configured download throughput speed for this service is 135 k
My upload is faster than my download :(
Hang in there Paul, hopefully it shouldn't take the normal 3-5 days as it's such a large percentage drop.
QuoteFrom an external basis BT believe they have resolved the issue and at the moment tests on their side show no faults.
So, i don't know what i should do now.. get an engineer out or not!!
Wait and see I would think, Paul. If problems persist, then BT clearly haven't resolved the issue, but they have admitted to one.
Quote from: Rik on May 12, 2008, 11:26:05
Wait and see I would think, Paul. If problems persist, then BT clearly haven't resolved the issue, but they have admitted to one.
When i went to bed last night i had a sync over 5800 kbps, When i got up this morning and checked, it was down to 1200 kbps. So clearly, they haven't fixed something :rant2:
Let support know.
Yep, let support know. :(
Paul, have a look a my thread http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=7994.0 I've just read through yours and you have the exact same problems as me, the only difference is I'm not on ADSL MAX anymore as it was just too unstable.
I've had BT out in the past and like you the problem clears up by the time they arrive so the engineer can't see it first hand, it's been happening to me for over a year now. :'(
Since last weekend my connection has been a lot better but it still has a wobbly moment at least once a day, if you ever do get to the bottom of it please let me know so I can arm myself with your info.
Well i've asked idnet for any advice and all i've got back is try updating your routers firmware... So i guess they are out of ideas aswell?
If i get disconnected by time tomorrow morning i will get support to book an engineer to visit. At the moment the line aint stable enuff to regain the profile :(
Last time i checked i was still stuck at 135k :(
Have you asked support if they could lend you a router, Paul?
Quote from: gingerjedi on May 12, 2008, 14:10:21
Paul, have a look a my thread http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=7994.0 I've just read through yours and you have the exact same problems as me, the only difference is I'm not on ADSL MAX anymore as it was just too unstable.
I've had BT out in the past and like you the problem clears up by the time they arrive so the engineer can't see it first hand, it's been happening to me for over a year now. :'(
Since last weekend my connection has been a lot better but it still has a wobbly moment at least once a day, if you ever do get to the bottom of it please let me know so I can arm myself with your info.
If i get anywhere with this i will let you know.
Quote from: Rik on May 12, 2008, 16:05:26
Have you asked support if they could lend you a router, Paul?
They did last time, line cleared up and started again within a month or 2.
Might be worth a shot - if it solves the problem again, it would point the finger rather (and would be cheaper than a BT charge!).
Quote from: psp83 on May 12, 2008, 16:06:17
They did last time, line cleared up and started again within a month or 2.
That's my experience, I started off with a Netgear DG834GT then a Linksys, Belkin, another Netgear and now I'm back to the original one as its the easiest to get 'Routerstats' to work with.
My connection can be fine for weeks then start playing up out of the blue??? That's why I'm pretty sure it's nothing in my home... more likely a branch rubbing on an overhead cable when the wind is in a certain direction. ???
When situations like this arise the consumer has no power at all, IDNET say its an infrastructure problem (which it obviously is) and BT don't give a toss as long as the voice side works, IMO BT should have more accountability for their network as the current SLA is completely out of date considering how far and fast BB technology has come, I'm sick of seeing ads for super fast BB when I can't even get a reliable basic package.
BT hold all the cards as things stand. They can just designate a line as unsuitable for ADSL and there's nothing anyone can do about it. :(
Well it looks like my line has stabled out again.. Will wait till tomorrow morning before i'm 100% on that..
Got routerstats running now and will leave it running over night to see when it all happens if it happens.
Fingers crossed, Paul. :fingers:
Still stuck on 135k profile thou :(
Have sent an email to support for tomorrow asking them to ask BT if they can nudge it as 135k is not usable.. God knows how we managed with dial up :hairpull:
I know it must be frustrating to have a 135k profile, but stability is more important. The profile will shift is sync is maintained. Still, if IDNet can get it reset manually, it saves the annoyance of poor throughput.
Well the line didnt drop last night but i have been alerted by routerstats that it drop this afternoon.
I will know more when i get home and look at the logs, cant access the router/pc from work today for some reason :( all i know is that the line is showing alot of noise today again.
[attachment deleted by admin]
With it still dropping the profile will never get higher :( as BT wont nudge it up until the line is stable :rant2:
IDNet might be able to intervene manually to get a 'halfway house' profile. That spike doesn't look bad enough to force a re-sync though - I wonder what the error count was doing at the time?
Quote from: Rik on May 13, 2008, 14:28:57
IDNet might be able to intervene manually to get a 'halfway house' profile. That spike doesn't look bad enough to force a re-sync though - I wonder what the error count was doing at the time?
When i checked before work, the CRC was at 100 that was from 7pm till 8:30am..
IDnet have already said BT wont move the profile manually.
Quote from: psp83 on May 13, 2008, 14:32:26
IDnet have already said BT wont move the profile manually.
Ouch. :( It might be worth moving to a fixed rate service for a while then.
Quote from: Rik on May 13, 2008, 14:39:03
Ouch. :( It might be worth moving to a fixed rate service for a while then.
Dont see why i should though, i've been on adsl max since the trials. its never been this bad and when i was with tiscali i never got this problem on a 15 margin and i always sync'd over 5500 kbps, something is wrong somewhere and BT dont want to own up :( i've only had this problem since the warmer weather, the builders next door and tiscali installing there LLU in the exchange.
I dont like BT and i'm going to keep bugging them till they own up! >:D
My thinking was that a fixed rate switch might change things somewhere, but if you can live with the speed and the nagging, go get BT. ;)
An email to Uncle Ben might help, of course...
Just been on the phone to support and they say i haven't re sync'd since last night at 7pm, but my router and routerstats clearly show i have resync'd today.
So whats going on ???
We've (support and I) agree'd to leave it till the end of the week and see how it goes once the builders pack up. They are also going to do a check on my account tomorrow morning to see if anything has changed.
One possibility could be that routerstats isn't showing a re-sync but an inability to access the router and obtain the data at that point, Paul. It will be interesting to see what the router logs show. Is anything running, eg email, besides RS?
Fingers crossed, again!
Quote from: Rik on May 13, 2008, 15:01:12
One possibility could be that routerstats isn't showing a re-sync but an inability to access the router and obtain the data at that point, Paul. It will be interesting to see what the router logs show. Is anything running, eg email, besides RS?
The sync pic above shows it connected at just under 6000kbps and then after the spike, connected at just under 5000kbps so i dont know if thats a resync or the exchange dropping the sync rate. I'll be home at 6pm tonight so i will check the logs and post here.
Only routerstats is running on the pc.
True, I wasn't remembering the change in sync rate, but I have seen RS unable to access a router briefly and showing an apparent drop. For you to have had a sync rate change means there must have been a re-sync, wherever it was triggered, so I'm puzzled why support can't see one, Paul. :(
Quote from: Rik on May 13, 2008, 15:20:44
True, I wasn't remembering the change in sync rate, but I have seen RS unable to access a router briefly and showing an apparent drop. For you to have had a sync rate change means there must have been a re-sync, wherever it was triggered, so I'm puzzled why support can't see one, Paul. :(
Any chance the equipment in the exchange stayed connected to IDnet but i lost connection to the equipment in the exchange ??? hence why IDnet didnt see the drop?
AFAIK, Paul, if your line drops your PPP session drops - which is the bit that IDNet see. I suppose it's possible that it happened so fast that PPP was unaffected. It will be interesting to see what the router shows and whether you have a stale session.
That's my understanding, too. You can't lose the sync and not the PPP, but you can lose the PPP and not the sync.
Well. i've just checked the logs and theres nothing there but sync has lowered today.
Connection Speed 4896 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 40 db 13 db
Noise Margin 11 db 25 db
Theres nearly a 1000 kbps drop from this morning.
Attenuation has gone up on both down/up stream.
Routerstats:-
Tue 13 May 2008 13:29:52 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 10 Tx-Noise= 26 Rx-Sync= 5856 Tx-Sync= 448 Downstream Att= 39 Upstream Att= 12.5
Tue 13 May 2008 13:30:12 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 8 Tx-Noise= 26 Rx-Sync= 5856 Tx-Sync= 448 Downstream Att= 39 Upstream Att= 12.5
Tue 13 May 2008 13:30:32 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 9 Tx-Noise= 26 Rx-Sync= 5856 Tx-Sync= 448 Downstream Att= 39 Upstream Att= 12.5
Tue 13 May 2008 13:30:52 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 8 Tx-Noise= 26 Rx-Sync= 5856 Tx-Sync= 448 Downstream Att= 39 Upstream Att= 12.5
Tue 13 May 2008 13:31:12 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 8 Tx-Noise= 26 Rx-Sync= 5856 Tx-Sync= 448 Downstream Att= 39 Upstream Att= 12.5
Tue 13 May 2008 13:31:32 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 6 Tx-Noise= 26 Rx-Sync= 5856 Tx-Sync= 448 Downstream Att= 39 Upstream Att= 12.5
Tue 13 May 2008 13:31:52 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 2 Tx-Noise= 26 Rx-Sync= 0 Tx-Sync= 0 Downstream Att= 39 Upstream Att= 12.5
Tue 13 May 2008 13:32:12 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 0 Tx-Noise= 0 Rx-Sync= 0 Tx-Sync= 0 Downstream Att= 0 Upstream Att= 0
Tue 13 May 2008 13:32:32 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 10 Tx-Noise= 25 Rx-Sync= 4896 Tx-Sync= 448 Downstream Att= 40 Upstream Att= 13
Tue 13 May 2008 13:32:52 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 11 Tx-Noise= 25 Rx-Sync= 4896 Tx-Sync= 448 Downstream Att= 40 Upstream Att= 13
Tue 13 May 2008 13:33:12 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 11 Tx-Noise= 25 Rx-Sync= 4896 Tx-Sync= 448 Downstream Att= 40 Upstream Att= 13
Tue 13 May 2008 13:33:32 **.***.**.** Rx-Noise= 11 Tx-Noise= 25 Rx-Sync= 4896 Tx-Sync= 448 Downstream Att= 40 Upstream Att= 13
This part shows the loss of sync, margin drop.
How about the router's logs, Paul?
Sun, 2002-09-08 13:00:21 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2002-09-08 13:00:21 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2002-09-08 13:00:26 - CHAP authentication success
Sun, 2002-09-08 13:00:36 - Send out NTP request to time-g.netgear.com
Mon, 2008-05-12 19:05:50 - Receive NTP Reply from time-g.netgear.com
Mon, 2008-05-12 19:06:58 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Mon, 2008-05-12 19:05:14 - Router start up
Tue, 2008-05-13 08:34:52 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Tue, 2008-05-13 13:17:30 - TCP Packet - Source:**.**.**.**,**** Destination:**.**.**.**,**** - [VNC3 rule match]
Tue, 2008-05-13 13:17:31 - TCP Packet - Source:**.**.**.**,**** Destination:**.**.**.**,**** - [VNC3 rule match]
Tue, 2008-05-13 13:17:34 - TCP Packet - Source:**.**.**.**,**** Destination:**.**.**.**,**** - [VNC3 rule match]
Tue, 2008-05-13 17:54:28 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Some of the log seems missing, it seems broke since the firmware update last night.
They did break the reporting of loss of sync, but I can't remember which version it was. The answer has to be to get a 2700. ;D
Quote from: Rik on May 13, 2008, 18:17:31
The answer has to be to get a 2700. ;D
I had one, my line didnt even like that one :rant2:
Here's some more stats since 7pm last night:-
Connection Rate: 4896 Kbps
Line Attenuation: 40 dB
Noise Margin: 11 dB
Interleave CRC: 0
Interleave FEC: 0
Interleave HEC: 0
Fast path CRC: 132
Fast path FEC: 0
Fast path HEC: 0
Upstream (Tx):
Good Cells: 36053
Idle Cells: 18082968
Downstream (Rx):
Good Cells: 323702
Idle Cells: 197690699
Bad HEC Cells: 585
Overflow Dropped: 0
Bytes Transferred (PPP):
Tx: 11630516 (11.0 Mb)
Rx: 109212739 (104.1 Mb)
It's not even a big error count. :shake:
Quote from: Rik on May 13, 2008, 18:22:54
It's not even a big error count. :shake:
So i dont know whats going on with my line at the mo and it seems like no one else does aswell :bawl:
About the only thing we can be certain of is that it's between you and the exchange. :(
Quote from: Rik on May 13, 2008, 18:41:32
About the only thing we can be certain of is that it's between you and the exchange. :(
If it keeps happening i will get BT to put a new line in to replace the old one, its been there since the houses was built. over 25yrs ago.
My mate across the road (30 sec walk), gets full speed from his connection and i get all these problems :( so i can't see why i cant get full speed if he can.
My line's been here 26 years, but isn't having the problems yours is. The difficulty you face is that BT can decide it's too expensive to replace and simply declare the line as unsuitable for ADSL. :(
Quote from: Rik on May 13, 2008, 18:58:25
My line's been here 26 years, but isn't having the problems yours is. The difficulty you face is that BT can decide it's too expensive to replace and simply declare the line as unsuitable for ADSL. :(
I will pay them to put a new line in if i have to, atleast this way it will get sky of the broadband line aswell.
Our line has been covered over.. We had the house walls done outside years ago and the firm put the new outter wall covering over the line.. So i dont know if this would have long term affect on the line.
You do realise the sort of costs you could be talking about, Paul?
Quote from: Rik on May 13, 2008, 19:05:42
You do realise the sort of costs you could be talking about, Paul?
No, I dont know how much they charge for a new line these days, but my job depends on a good/fast internet connection.. So if it needs to be done then i will have to do it :-\
A basic new line is £125, but that doesn't guarantee new cable, they'll use a spare pair if there is one. Once you get into cabling, the bill can run into thousands, though there's threshold below which BT bear the cost.
There is none left on the pole outside, the engineer went to change the pair last time and couldn't because of this. he also said there was a few corroded.
I've been trying to find a figure for new cabling, but can't. I have seen it somewhere, but you know what it's like when you look for it. :(
Basically, BT will install a new line for £125 if it costs them less than £X. If the cost is greater, they can refuse unless you are willing to meet their costs. Best thing is to ask for a quote and specify the line is required for ADSL.
Again, I think it also may depend on the engineer, too. When I was at university, it was an absolute nightmare for BT to install the line, and it took them most of the day, yet we still only paid £125. :)
Well a new line is the last thing i will do.
Where can i get a new filtered faceplate from? quality over price.. i dont like cheap things :)
Also thinking about getting this just to see if helps : http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=5389
What do you think?
I would go for the ADSL Nation XTE-2005. :thumb:
As would I, sebby.
As for the router, the v4 uses a broadcom chip which seems to perform better than the chips in the previous versions.
Yep, sorry, missed the router link last night. The v4 certainly seems to perform much better than previous versions. :)
Hi,
Where is your router physically located? How hot is it running and is it near any source of heat? Is the ventilation OK?
I just had a Netscreen firewall cr*p out with strange symptoms that looked exactly like the modem losing the PPP session. It coincided with the hot weather starting.
I would try getting a couple of books and standing one end of the modem on each one to make an air gap underneath then putting a fan to blow on it to see if that changes the behaviour.
Cheers,
Paul.
edit: Would the neighbour let you go for a climb up their scaffolding whilst the builders aren't there so you can check your cable for physical damage?
I just remembered the cost thing... My friend lives in East Anglia and she has a farm cottage that's about a mile down a lane. The phone line wouldn't support ADSL and BT decided to rerun the cable down the lane so the people in the cottages could get ADSL. She didn't have to pay but IIRC I think she said the cost to BT was something like £10,000 to replace a mile of cable.
:jawdrop:
Cheers,
Paul.
Thanks, Paul. I know I've seen the figures, I just can't remember where. How many cottages were there?
The V4 does work much better, I have a great sync for my attenuation on O2, I would recommend one, the broadcom chipset likes LLU and BT, the fact anything likes BT amazes me, you can pick one up here (http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=5389) for £44 the non wifi one is only a pound cheaper ::)
Quote from: Sebby on May 14, 2008, 00:06:13
I would go for the ADSL Nation XTE-2005. :thumb:
Should be through time the weekend ;D
Quote from: Dangerjunkie on May 14, 2008, 09:52:43
Hi,
Where is your router physically located? How hot is it running and is it near any source of heat? Is the ventilation OK?
I just had a Netscreen firewall cr*p out with strange symptoms that looked exactly like the modem losing the PPP session. It coincided with the hot weather starting.
I would try getting a couple of books and standing one end of the modem on each one to make an air gap underneath then putting a fan to blow on it to see if that changes the behaviour.
Cheers,
Paul.
edit: Would the neighbour let you go for a climb up their scaffolding whilst the builders aren't there so you can check your cable for physical damage?
The router is on a corner shelf in the hall, about 3ft away from the phone socket. Its away from any heaters and has plenty of air.. Its led down ontop 2 blocks of wood each side lifting it about 2 inches off the shelf. The router itself runs quite cool. The only power source around it is the power cable which goes away from the router 2 a plug about 3/4ft away.
I've checked the phone line, well the 4ft of it that runs through the scaffolding and couldn't see any damage but if they got it caught it might off came free at the pole ???
It seems like the line has stabled today.
Noise was up and down through the night but i know it does at night and a 3 db drop is what used to get at night.
But today its been very flat.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Looks just as it should, Paul, only 5db further up the axis than is ideal.
Quote from: Rik on May 14, 2008, 14:27:20
Looks just as it should, Paul, only 5db further up the axis than is ideal.
I'm still sync'd under 5000 kbps thou :( and a reboot of the router might make it unstable again once the sync gets higher ???
[attachment deleted by admin]
I don't want to ruin your otherwise ADSL problem free day but have you tried wiggling the cable to see if you can upset that otherwise perfect straight line?
That's wicked. >:D ;D
Maybe give it a hard pull just for good measure!
Quote from: Lance on May 14, 2008, 14:36:25
Maybe give it a hard pull just for good measure!
:leer: :no: :zip:
Quote from: Lance on May 14, 2008, 14:36:25
Maybe give it a hard pull just for good measure!
i'll hang a bag of bricks on the line and see it that
damages helps it.. :laugh:
Got a 4000 profile now, gotta be better than 135k "snails" profile.
It's better than my flat out profile, Paul. :'(
Does touching metal affect telephone cable?
I am thinking of the scaffolding, could it be causing the current problems? It could be a source of RF if nothing else.
I believe builders can break things like cable when putting up scaffolding! :whistle:
Mo
;D
They could certainly damage the cable without obvious external marks, Mo, and I suppose the scaffold might just as an an antenna for RF pickup.
Well the scaffolding should be down this week, I will get support to ask BT to nudge my margin back down to 12 if it stays stable when the scaffolding is down.
Hope its the cause as i dont know what it could be.
It could well be the scaffolding. Like Rik says, it could, theoretically, be emitting RF into your line. Time will tell... :)
Theres alot of noise on the line today compared to yesterday.
The weather isn't hot today and its raining, so there goes the nice weather option.
[attachment deleted by admin]
A 10db swing, which suggests you need a target margin of 12db. :(
Quote from: Rik on May 15, 2008, 15:46:56
A 10db swing, which suggests you need a target margin of 12db. :(
its 15db anyways.
Line never used to be this noisy before.
It happens, Paul. You could try Lance's trick and phone 151, reporting that you can hear cross-talk on the (voice) line. That's reputed to guarantee a pair swap, and did for Lance, but if they don't have a spare pair I'm not sure what they would do.
That's very useful to know, as a last resort. :)
Its like my routerstats is monitoring a earthquake at the mo lol.. spikes (up and down).. flat lines then starts again with the spikes.
Got my adslnation faceplate through today.. will put that on saturday when the margin is at a good stable point and see if that helps.. if not. its back to support and maybe do what lance has done!!
Remind me what happened when you connected to the test socket? If there was no improvement there, a faceplate isn't likely to help, but it's still good to have, IMHO. :)
Quote from: Sebby on May 15, 2008, 18:05:37
Remind me what happened when you connected to the test socket? If there was no improvement there, a faceplate isn't likely to help, but it's still good to have, IMHO. :)
I'm still connected to the test socket, haven't bothered putting the faceplate back on yet as the phone is noisy with the BT one.. So hoping this new one will clear the noisy phone calls up.
Atleast BT cant say i haven't tried everything!!
If you're still getting noise at the test socket, unless the phone is the problem, a filtered faceplate isn;t going to solve anything, Paul, but will certainly do no harm.
Quote from: Rik on May 15, 2008, 18:18:30
If you're still getting noise at the test socket, unless the phone is the problem, a filtered faceplate isn;t going to solve anything, Paul, but will certainly do no harm.
The noise only happens for about the first 3 secs with a soap on a rope filter (at the dialing sounds). phone cant be at fault, tried 2 different phones and had same noise on both. the noise was like a faint modem dialing noise with a fews pops etc.
It shouldn't be there, though. Have you tried double-filtering the phone?
Quote from: Rik on May 15, 2008, 18:27:13
It shouldn't be there, though. Have you tried double-filtering the phone?
Nope.. will try that when i put the new faceplate on sat..
tbh.. I'm out of options if none of this work :( might get a netgear dg834g v4 router to see if it helps, but i guess in the end it will be an engineer call out ending with a £169 bill :-\
I'd try the 'cross-talk voice fault' first... ;) Check with Lance what he said.
Quote from: Rik on May 15, 2008, 18:48:48
I'd try the 'cross-talk voice fault' first... ;) Check with Lance what he said.
Lance can you please PM me your screw BT over script cards please? >:D
:banana2:
:hungry: be back in abit
You have a pm :)
It sounds like it could well be worth a try, Paul. :thumb:
thanks for the PM..
My line has just got weirder.
The first pic below shows a drop in margin, this was when the phone was used after that it stables out after being unstable all day.. Now i went to bed thinking there will be massive spikes and maybe a re sync because how my line was acting during the day... but as the 2nd pic shows.. my line was stable all night at 11db..
Its like the day has reversed the for line yesterday.. the spikes you get at night happened in the day ???
[attachment deleted by admin]
Which suggests some local activity, possibly a small industrial unit?
i've asked the neighbours if they've changed anything electrical and they haven't, We haven't in the house and there no industrial stuff around here for miles and thats away from the exchange, the other end of town.
Why would picking the phone up and putting it down stable the line ???
It can cause a whetting current, which overcomes a bad joint for a short period.
Quote from: Rik on May 16, 2008, 08:48:14
... overcomes a bad joint for a short period.
12 hrs ??? and counting
new face plate is on now.. same margin between 11 and 12 but higher sync.
Connection Speed 6080 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 39 db 12.5 db
Noise Margin 12 db 27 db
So lets hope it stays stable now.
:fingers: :fingers:
Well that was short lived.
Phone is causing big spikes in margin still and thats with a new filtered face plate and 2 soap on a rope filters then the phone connected.
Tried 2 phones and they both cause the spikes. Middle spike was from the 2nd phone.
Pic attached.. What shall i do? as with these spikes. it will only take a little bit of extra noise from somewhere to cause a resync :(
[attachment deleted by admin]
I think I would have a word with support, with the likely outcome of a BT engineer visit. It appears that there is a fault on the line, but you know it isn't your side as you've got the filtered face plate and daisy-chained the filters. Rik knows more than I do about the types of faults you can get on the line though, and he might have a different idea.
I agree, Lance, this is one for support.
I think you've proved that this is a line issue, even though it perhaps looks like the phone on the surface (but it's not). As the others suggest, let support know and you'll have to have an engineer round.