Rightly or wrongly I've ordered Acronis TI v10 for my new Vista laptop under the impression that it had fewer problems than v11. Having done that (it's not received yet) I've now read of SOME people having to use a Vista DVD to start the computer after a restore from Acronis TI v10. The problem is that I haven't got one. As I understand it even though the TI v10 boot CD can see all the drives etc and validate them OK but you may still a Vista DVD to get your computer going. I'm worried that in an emergency I could do a successful restore but then be unable to get my computer going. In these circumstances I can't afford to do a trial restore.
Has anyone any experience of this, maybe even made an actual restore? Believe that Lance said that he's using Vista and TI v10.
Does the lappy not allow you to make a DVD, Noreen?
I'm sure it will, Rik, but it's unlikely to work like an original Vista disc. It will be some kind of recovery disc, and these rarely work the same as the original OS disc. :(
Noreen, what exactly is it that you may need the Vista DVD to do?
Noreen
TI 10 restore vista link
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=171579 (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=171579) post #4
It appears it does work ,however only under certain scenarios you will need a vista DVD
I use TI10 and have gone back again to vista but not tried a full restore yet :)
Sebby, if you read the link to the Wilders forum that Steve gave you'll see what this is about, I can't pretend that I really understand it all but the possibility of a restore failing does alarm me. That thread was one of those that I had previously read. However I do ONLY make full drive (all partitions) backups and that's all I've ever done on my previous XP machine with TI v9 but I never had to do a restore, that of course is not the same as an "image".
I've got an idea that I'll end up getting TI v11 as I really don't want to have to worry about this and my confidence in it is somewhat shattered now. :(
I will let you know more later this evening. As I have a copy of vista on DVD, just performing a full disk backup using TI 10 and will then restore. :)
Thanks Steve.
I also found this although it doesn't help me or anyone else in my situation. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/2ca4f65f-a63d-4a73-9d35-15b32d6cdc321033.mspx
I just had a read of that thread, Noreen. What I would suggest is that you contact Acronis and make sure they're aware of the issue, and I would have thought a program update will follow. I appreciate that at the moment that's not a great comfort, but I can't imagine they'd leave this issue unfixed for very long.
If you ever had a problem, Noreen, I could lend you a Vista DVD to get you booted.
Quote from: Sebby on Apr 10, 2008, 16:32:07
I just had a read of that thread, Noreen. What I would suggest is that you contact Acronis and make sure they're aware of the issue, and I would have thought a program update will follow. I appreciate that at the moment that's not a great comfort, but I can't imagine they'd leave this issue unfixed for very long.
There IS a program update, Sebby, it's TI v11 however that also has some different problems for some people. :(
Thanks, Rik. I'll bear that in mind.
Incidentally I've just found this http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/
That could provide a solution, Noreen. :)
Sorry, Noreen, I didn't mean a new version, I meant an update for the existing v10. At the moment, the latest update for v10 is build 4942, but the problem in the thread you posted earlier was using this build.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 10, 2008, 16:51:20
That could provide a solution, Noreen. :)
When searching for info about this I saw a recommended free program specifically for burning ISO stuff to CDs which it was suggested could be used for this. I notice that on the end of the download link for the Vista recovery disc it says "torrent", isn't that a special downloading program? I don't have it if it is.
Sebby, I supposed that they solved the problem in v11. Doesn't solve the startup/recovery disc problem though. I've read that in the beta versions of Vista SP1 there was a facility to create such a disc but MS removed it in the final release of SP1.
You'll need a BitTorrent application to download it, Noreen. I use uTorrent (http://www.utorrent.com) myself. Once installed, you should be able to click a torrent link and the download should start in uTorrent.
Be careful what you download, though, as it might not always be what it claims to be.
This is all getting so complicated. :phew:
Anyone running torrents feel able to download this and burn Noreen a disc?
I could do it. :)
Thanks, Sebby. :) Noreen, do you want to PM Sebby with your address?
It's completely up to you, Noreen. I'd be happy to do it for you and send it on. :thumb:
Thanks Sebby, I'll PM you.
Oh dear! Does this sound like the same problem with v11? http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=205362
It sounds a bit different, Noreen, as no-one has mentioned reaching for the Vista disc. The description is much more of the kind of issues I used to find with v8 and XP, where I had to input quite a string of commands to get it working.
I also found this http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=173214
It sounds like the same issue, Noreen, though I would hope that Acronis had a fix by now.
Noreen
TI v10 build 4942
Having made a complete backup of laptop drive c: with a single partition containing vista SP1.I then managed to completely restore disk 1 (MBR and c:) using the bootable rescue media. Windows then started normally without the use of the vista DVD. :)
Thanks Steve. :) From what I can understand (which isn't much) it seems that the problems arise if you attempt to do just a C partition restore whereas there is no problem if you do a complete hard drive restore. I only do complete drive backups so hopefully I'll be OK. The thing is I won't know until I do a restore and I'm just not going to risk just trying it out. Hopefully I'll have the disc that Sebby is going to send me which will be further insurance. That'll be useful to have in any case. I do have a basic disc from Hi-Grade (the laptop makers) but it's not intended as a startup/repair disc.
Leaving Acronis aside this Vista startup/repair disc business does seem to be a problem for customers who aren't supplied with a Vista DVD by the machine makers. What are they supposed to do?
It's downloading as we speak, Noreen, and should be in the post tomorrow. :)
Thanks Sebby, you're a star. ;D
Pleasure. :)
Nice one, Seb. ;)
Sebby, I forgot :karma:
I also didn't mention yesterday that Royal Mail tried to deliver the Acronis package in the morning while I was out (it required a signature) and now I've got to go to the Delivery Office to pick it up. :mad:
That's annoying. The recovery disc is in the post, so you should get them around the same time. :)
:thnks: Sebby
CD safely received, thanks Sebby. Would it be possible to test this disc, without actually doing any repair etc, just to see if it runs OK? I don't want to do anything else disastrous to this laptop. ;D
It should be possible to just boot then backout, Noreen, but wait till someone with Vista confirms this.
It's a pure boot disc AFAIK, so you should be able to test it then just remove the CD and reboot. :)
I'm beginning to think that this Acronis business is cursed. I put the CD (Sebby's) into the drive and restarted. I heard the CD drive working with the light showing but after that it went straight into Windows as usual. Is this what is supposed to happen because I thought I would get some sort of menu?
I had a look in the BIOS settings and in Boot Priority Order it says...........
1: IDE CD: TSSTcorp CDDVDW followed by a ref no.
2: SATA HDD: Fujitsu followed by a ref no.
3: USB CDROM:
4: USB HDD:
5: USB Key:
6: USB FDC:
7: BOOT TO LAN: Realtek Boot Agent
if that's of any help.
Prior to this, I went to the Royal Mail Delivery Office to collect the Acronis software which they had been unable to deliver because I was out and it needed a signature. Only to discover that it had not yet been returned to them even though it was supposed to have been as it was over 24 hours. So now I have to go back on Monday. :mad: :mad: :mad:
The boot order looks okay, Noreen. I know with the Vista CD a message is displayed saying "press any key to boot from CD". I wonder if it's something similar with this boot disc?
On my toshiba laptop I have to press f12 before power to obtain boot options :)
That boot order should be OK, Noreen. Do you know anyone who would let you test the disk (or do you have an Acronis boot disk to hand - if so, and that boots, it sounds like something is wrong with the CD).
I'd complain with to RM, it means someone is carrying around your mail when they shouldn't be. Could you not get them to re-deliver on Monday?
I should've tested it before I sent it, but I got home so late on on Thursday (had a work function) and wanted to get it in the post Friday. Perhaps I'll burn another copy and try it myself later today. :)
Did you use Nero to burn it, Sebby? Reading through the huge amount of comments on that download page, apparently there is a problem with Nero. It also says that you must burn it as an ISO image.
Nope, I used DeepBurner.
Sebby, see my edit above,
It was burnt as an ISO, Noreen. I can assure you the burning was fine. I'll see if I can test it later. :)
Noreen, I burnt the vista recovery iso using nero 8 burning rom in xp and then over to laptop pressed and held f12,power on, arrow over to cd drive> select. Then it gives option to start from cd/dvd. It then states windows loading files (getting nervous now), moves on to the vista install screen, location,keyboard etc,at this stage I cancelled and booted vista normally without problems. I suppose its a bit like a vista version of bartPE? :)
I tried again but pressed F12 this time while booting as suggested by Steve, there were several loud screeching beeps then a white text on black screen came up with some text about Realtek (I think) there was a flashing cursor and after a while it said press any key to boot from CD or DVD. I pressed the spacebar but perhaps I was too late as it then went into Windows normally. I was so frightened by the beeps that I was extremely nervous. :eek4:
Perhaps my best bet would be to get on to the laptop makers and ask if they can supply me with a start-up CD. The CD that they supplied actually overwrites some of the stuff already on the computer and Support told me during my problems last Wednesday that it was NOT a start-up CD and not to try to use it for that purpose.
The beeps are probably because F12 doesn't have a function on your laptop, Noreen - nothing to worry about.
It sounds like the problem is that you have a press a key to continue. Perhaps give it another try. ;)
Sebby, it worked! :thumb: What had happened the first time was that I was watching the CD light to see if it was doing anything and so missed the line of text at the top left of the screen, "press any key to boot from CD or DVD". There was no need to press any F key. I went through the process outlined by Steve, my heart pounding as the screen came up about installing Windows, I pressed next and up came the screen with all the repair options. Thanks again to Sebby :karma: and to Steve :karma: for their encouragement.
Great news, Noreen. :)
Excellent news. Thanks for the karma. :)
Rik, that's a really handy download site to keep a note of, as many customers are now supplied with Vista CDs like mine.
It's in our archives, Noreen. :)
Thanks Noreen,you were braver than me I chickened out earlier in the recovery process, by the way I have to press f12 to get into the boot options menu and it does beep loudly when its had enough :)
Well, it obviously can't install Windows itself as it hasn't got the files but I was scared of what it would do when I pressed "next". An option to repair your computer came up, I clicked on that and then the Repair menu came up. I then clicked the button to "Close Down". Obviously I can now repair a problem or go back to a restore point etc but what I'm not sure about is how I would actually start Windows. There is an option for a command prompt. Would it be with that?
Is that when Sebby's picture came up, Noreen? ;D
;D ;D ;D Noreen, I think may be, that if acronis recovery fails to give you a working version, this software get its going again without the vista dvd being required :)
Quote from: Noreen on Apr 12, 2008, 19:26:12
There is an option for a command prompt. Would it be with that?
I suspect this'll be the option you'll need to use, Noreen. I'm not sure exactly what it is that needs repairing, but this will allow you to run the required executable.
Thanks for everyone's help. I think that Steve probably has the answer.
I've now spent hours reading about TI v10 on Wilders and it seems that Acronis have really messed up with Vista and TI v10 and TI v11. I really don't understand all the technical stuff but it appears that when TI v10 restores a PARTITION image created by Vista it doesn't restore to exactly the same position as it was originally which is why the repair is required. This problem apparently doesn't happen with partitions created by other programs. The problem does not arise with FULL DRIVE images and no repair is therefore required. For anyone interested in doing PARTITION backups only, there is a workaround here http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=185731&highlight=Vista which appears to work well so that no repair is necessary. I only make Full Drive images so I'm not going to do it at the moment.
It seems to me that it's an absolute necessity to be able to have full confidence in a Backup program and I really can't say that I've got that now. In all the stuff on Wilders there was one reply from Acronis last year in which they said that they were aware of the problem and were working on a fix. Presumably that appeared in TI v11 which of course has its own problems. >:(
Another alternative is the ability in some versions of Vista to make a "Complete PC Backup" to external media which I had done just after I partitioned it with Vista. The main drawback that I can see to this is that there seems to be no facility to validate the Backup. Restoring this Vista Backup requires the use of the Repair CD which I luckily now have, wouldn't have been able to access it otherwise. I presume that the Restore process would see my external drive as it's using Vista's driver, I don't want to restore it just to find out. :eek4:
That's one of the big problems with any backup program, Noreen. We put our faith in them to have done the job, but the only way to test is potentially very destructive. :( Acronis do seem to have lost their way a bit lately, which is worrying.
What I found worrying, Rik, was that in all the months of posts on Wilders about this problem, it took Acronis literally months to make one rather unsatisfactory reply. They don't seem to be bothered about customer's problems with their products.
That doesn't inspire much confidence, I must admit, Noreen. You'd think that if a program is Vista compatible, they'd release a patch pretty quickly.
Quote from: Noreen on Apr 13, 2008, 11:02:54
What I found worrying, Rik, was that in all the months of posts on Wilders about this problem, it took Acronis literally months to make one rather unsatisfactory reply. They don't seem to be bothered about customer's problems with their products.
I found that way back in v8, there were ongoing issues but little interest in fixing them. It's why I skipped v9. Unfortunately, at the time, the only alternative seemed to be Ghost, and coming from Symantec was enough to put me off.
I was quite happy with v9 and XP but I never had to do a restore to really test it.
I have done with 8 & 10, and all was well. I do confess to sweaty palms during the process, though. :)
I had a HDD failure a few years back, I had made a Full Back -Up using Sonic, I too had sweaty palms on restoring it all to a new HDD, however it all just went back to the date of back-up, all sorted.
I use Aconis V9 now, not sure if it will work tho, I hope I don't need to test it.
Another drawback that I've discovered with the Vista Complete PC Backup is that it appears that you can only have one. After that it does an incremental backup on the previous one. I'd rather be able to keep one Backup of the starting setup and another of its recent state which I could change over time. I think that I'll keep the Vista starting setup backup just for safety and then rely on Acronis for full drive backups from now onwards.
Could you not fool it by 'moving' the first backup, Noreen?
I have always performed a full backup of my basic program suite using acronis v9 and v10, so I know I can get back to something that works. Certainly with XP and my limited experience of vista, system restore has solved most of my problems.I always back data up automatically using acronis on a regular basis.Obviously if I have HD failure there is a bit more work for me to do than a simple restore but its good I think to get rid of some of the detritus that collects over months of use. :)
Quote from: Rik on Apr 13, 2008, 14:40:31
Could you not fool it by 'moving' the first backup, Noreen?
Don't think so, Rik, because the Windows Recovery Environment which is the CD that Sebby made, is where you have the option to restore the Complete PC Backup and that automatically refers to its own reference to the backup. If you moved the backup the restore option wouldn't know where to find it. At least I think that's what happens, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere that you can direct the Recovery option to a backup. That would seem reasonable if you only had one backup.
Being a CD, though, would imply that the location of the backup is hard-coded into it. In which case, can you not just move the file from that location, in which case wouldn't it assume it was making a backup for the first time?
I think that the restore option has to refer to the computer to find the position of the backup. I'd try it out so that I could see what happens but I'm nervous that it would start restoring. :eek4: I'm going to leave well alone for now and rely on Acronis WHEN I get it. :bawl:
I suspect that it creates an environment at a given location. You'd probably have to move the entire folder (or whatever), to fool it into starting afresh. However, is it creating this on your internal HD? If so, it wouldn't be much held if that had failed.
No it has to be created on an external device, HD or CDs/DVDs or similar.
So, if the device changes, would it not assume no previous backup?
I really don't know, I'm out of my depth, Rik. I'd assumed that a reference is kept somewhere in Vista. When I started to make the backup with my external drive plugged in, the backup program jumped straight to the external drive. All it asked me was to confirm that this is where the backup was to go. Unfortunately my very good Vista book only says to follow the prompts when restoring.
You know my paranoia when it comes to backups, so it won't surprise you to know that my TI images are stored on five separate hard drives, two internal and three external. I'd be vary wary of a system which doesn't allow the backup to be backed up.
Steve mentioned System Restore, which reminded me of something that puzzled me the other day, the answer may help someone.
It applies if you dual-boot.
For no particular reason I decided to make sure that SR was set up OK (in Vista (business)). When I looked to see how many days had been saved, I found there was only the one I had just made!!
On then checking how much space was allocated, it appeared to be plenty. Certainly enough for a lot more than one.
After a lot of faffing about I found the answer. If you change from one OS to the other, all system restore entries are erased! In Vista anyway. I haven't checked the other way yet.
While here, perhaps someone can put me straight. I use two 160GB internal HDD. XP (Home) on one - Vista (Business) on the other.
When I want to do a full backup when in Vista say, do I include the other HDD with XP on it? Or just the HDD with Vista + a data partition? The same would appply when in XP of course, should I only include that HDD?
If it came to having to restore, would it restore both systems OK? Or throw a wobbly?? :dunno:
I would have thought that you'd need to have separate restore points for each OS, Mo, as restore points include registry snapshots, and these won't be the same for both OS. I can't understand why it would erase one on a different HD at all. That said, I don't dual boot, so I have no practical experience.
Sure, system restore is separate on each OS. It was only the Vista one I noticed had lost all entries bar one.
When I came to look up the help & support section (last of course!), changing OS was the reason given. ::)
Mo
:)
Weird, why would XP want to delete entries for another OS on another HD - doesn't make sense to me, but then much that MS do doesn't make sense to me, Mo. :(
I think it is the act of changing OS which does the erasing Rik. Like if there were six entries in Vista now, and I re-booted into XP, Vistas would be gone before XP loaded. I would expect XP to still have it's entries.
Whether XP would lose it's entries when going the other way, I haven't explored yet! ;D
Mo
So it's the boot menu that's doing it, presumably? I still can't think why. :(
Mo, from my Vista book...............
QuoteHere's a warning to anyone who dual-boots between Vista and Windows XP. For some extremely technical and extremely unfortunate reasons, starting up in Windows XP deletes all your shadow copies and restore points. The only workaround is to turn off the hard drive that contains these files before starting up in Windows XP. Microsoft is very sorry.
BTW it's not a Microsoft book. ;D
Useful. Thanks, Noreen. :-*
Yes, thank you for that Noreen. You have saved me a few hours of wasted time I reckon. :-*
Mo
;D
Memo to self; Look in your own Vista books first next time!!
My Vista book is "Windows Vista: The Missing Manual" by David Pogue. I have found it extremely useful and I recommend it. It goes into great detail and explains things in a way that's usually suitable for both technical and non-technical people. There are 826 pages to it.
Who's the publisher, Noreen?
It's an American book published by O'Reilly Media Inc, Rik. David Pogue is a technology columnist in the New York Times. I also had his similar book on XP, it was my Bible. ;D
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_b/202-6059841-2899031?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=david+pogue&Go.x=10&Go.y=12
Thanks. :)
Note my edit, Rik.
:thumb: I wonder if there's anything to be learnt from 'iPod - the missing manual'?
I wonder what there could possibly be to know; the things are so simple! ???
That's what intrigues me, Sebby. Perhaps there's a whole world of functionality concealed from us by some arcane key combinations. :)
Well, Vista is a bit different and a printed manual is a real asset, to me at least. ;D
This item on Wilders has been suggested to me on another forum http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=185731&highlight=Vista and although I only make full drive images it has been suggested that I make the changes anyway. I've replied that it didn't appear necessary for what I do and haven't made any changes. I'm nervous of making any "internal" changes to a new machine especially when I don't understand it or whether it would affect anything else especially when it doesn't appear to be necessary. Any opinions?
I always buy one or more books on an OS, Noreen. There are too many things to learn for me to do it through the help system, I prefer a book anyday.
Another edit to look at, Rik. ;D
What's being suggested looks OK to me, but that's from an XP perspective. See what others have to say before you try it, but it should work. OTOH, from what I read, if you do a full disk backup, you wouldn't have an issue.
I wish now that I'd never started all this Acronis business. :mad: I got the software this morning from the Royal Mail Delivery Office. When I looked at the actual software package I found that although it was Acronis TI v10 in an Acronis box, on the back it said that it was "Republished in the UK by Computrolley co.uk. Inside there is a Registration card for them but when I looked up their site I didn't find anything. They do have an postal address of course and a phone no. Their website is supposed to be computrolley.com I can get that but then nothing for the UK. The box and CD have all the Acronis copyright notices. Not sure what to do now.
It looks like they may be the UK distributor, Noreen:
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6974
The reviews here aren't too good though:
http://www.kelkoo.co.uk/m-5835923-computrolley.html
There is a name for this type of operation Noreen, I cannot remember what it is, but they kind of act as a middle man. ;)
Rik, do you think that I would HAVE to register it with them or could I register it with Acronis?
I suspect it will register directly with Acronis, Noreen.
I only want to register it so that I can update it to the latest v10 if necessary.
Just go to the Acronis site to register, I doubt you'll have any problems, but if you do Acronis would probably want to know about them, if you see what I mean. My copy of 10 is also republished by Computrolley, and I just registered, as normal, on the Acronis site. (Hadn't noticed at the time, just got the case out to check. My registration card is still in it, I didn't bother to use it.)
Right, it's now installed. It was v4871 so I went to Acronis UK and registered but when I eventually clicked on "get update" nothing happened, so I went to the main US site and got it from there and it's now installed as v4942 which I believe is the latest. :fingers:
A result, well done Noreen.. :thumb:
I'm putting off doing any more with it for now, I've got to recuperate. :phew:
A stiff Drambuie is called for. ;)
Good idea except that I haven't got any. ;D
I could pour some into the router and see if it makes it to you. ;)
I think that I'll survive, thanks Rik. What a mess that would make of your router. :laugh:
BTW I accidentally left the Acronis CD in the laptop when I rebooted after installation and so it booted. I was interested to see that the problem with the Logitech mouse still existed, the mouse would only move on the right hand side of the screen (my description of the problem in that other thread was incorrect). Had to use the touchpad to get out of it.
I usually just release the drawer and Ctrl+Alt+Del in that situation.
I have had problems with the acronis cd boot on a couple of machines i.e booting into a useable state and identfying backups on local drives and network drives. The creation of the boot rescue media CD using the latest version (4942) allowed me to restore my laptop over the network whereas an earlier version failed to identify my network. On the other machine the rescue media didnt work at all except in safe mode, however using the acronis plugin for BartPE solved the problem. :)
Just a little bit of progress to report so far, I've made a Boot CD from the updated version. I haven't made a backup yet. ;D
Does it boot OK?
Oh yes, I made sure of that. :)
That's half the battle, anyway. :) :thumb:
That is good to hear, Noreen. :)
I made my first full image backup this evening. I then validated it externally using the Boot CD and it was OK. ;D Took 1 hour and 20 mins to validate though. I intend to keep two full image backups at all times.
More good news. :thumb:
Nice one Noreen!
Great work Noreen, glad things are getting back to normal :thumb:
If you can store one of the backups with a friend or relative, Noreen, it would be even better. (I'm just a perfectionist! ;))