Not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but I've come across something when viewing IDNetters in firefox, which doesn't happen when viewing in IE (I've tested out of curiosity).
When I click on the "last post" button for any thread FF can take up to 25 seconds to display the last post on the page (that's what fasterfox says and I believe it cos it seems to take an age), yet in IE, the last post displays almost as soon as the page loads as I would expect it to. It's worse if there are a lot of posts on that page than when there are only say 1 or 2. Also, this happens on both my laptop (Vista) and desktop (XP Pro). Also, this doesn't seem to be the case with any of the other forums that I visit - curiouser and curiouser :think:
I use Firefox and Fasterfox, but I have changed the default Fasterfox settings, and I've got a strong feeling that this is where your problem lies.
Try setting Fasterfox to Optimized instead of Turbo Charged, and make sure you restart Firefox. Turbo charged increases load on web servers and IDNetters might be responding unfavourably to that.
Thanks sebby - I'll have a look at that - been bugging me for a few days now, and tried all sorts of stuff, but never thought about fasterfox :)
No problem, I hope it sorts it. Just click Tools > Add-ons and you'll be able to edit the settings from there. Let us know if it works! :)
I use Firefox without Fasterfox, and pages load like lightning on here, and most other forums. The only one I have trouble with sometimes, is AV forums, where all the ads seem to want to load before the forums pages, and if one gets 'stuck', the thread won't load either. Needless to say, we don't ever intend to have ads on IDNetters!
It could also be to do with the Turbo Charged setting, Simon. I've seen it on a few sites. It might be worth a try. :)
Hmmmmmm - tried fasterfox on optimised - knocks it down to approx 17 seconds.
Tried it on courteous - knocks it down to approx 15 seconds.
Tried it on default - roughly the same
Tried disabling fasterfox altogether and restarting FF - roughly the same.
Still definitely a very big and highly noticable difference between FF and IE, but only it seems on this forum - weird. :(
Very weird, Mad. It's strange that it happens on all your PCs with Firefox. I know many of us here on IDNetters use Firefox without any issues, so I'm baffled. Maybe someone else will be able to suggest something.
:think:
I'll try the different settings on my laptop - probably tomorrow - to see if they make any difference on there.
Only common denominator is that I used FEBE to do a full profile backup on my desktop, and put that on my laptop - could the profile be, in any way, to do with it?
I suppose it could (anything's possible in these cases where there is no apparent problem!). One thing you could try is to install Firefox 3 beta (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-beta.html), which will install alongside and not over your existing installation, IIRC, and see if you have the same problem. :)
You could also try starting your existing Firefox in safe mode just to see if it makes a difference.
Thanks Sebby - I'll try those suggestions :thumb:
I use FF without FasterFox, and don't see any delays unless the server is particularly busy, in which case it might take a couple of seconds to load. Other things to think about, MTU/RWIN, AV settings, firewall settings, anything else running in the background?
I see what you are saying Rik, but why would they only affect IDNetters on both my PCs, and then only when using FF? Using Opera or IE on either machine I have no issues whatsoever.
Done some messing about this morning. FF3 makes no difference. Messed about disabling and enabling add ons, and the main culprits seem to be adblock plus and no script - they each add between 5 to 10 seconds to last post load time, and together take me back up to over 20 seconds if there are a few posts on that page.
Problem is that without them, I may as well go back to Opera, or even use IE just for IDNetters, which is far from ideal - I like to use one browser, not bounce around between 2 or 3.
Ho hum :comp:
Adblock is odd, as we don't have any. Noscript I could have understood when we were using Google Analyticals, but we don't do that anymore. Is there an option to disable them for this site?
Adblock is dasabled for this site, and noscript is set to allow it - IDNetters is also in the whitelist.
Just can't understand it. :(
No problems here using Firefox 3 beta 4, pages load in a couple of seconds.
Just out of curiosity, enabled adblock for this site, and it lists virtually every button and smiley on the page as blockable items!! :mad:
Quote from: Sheltieuk on Mar 22, 2008, 09:36:10
No problems here using Firefox 3 beta 4, pages load in a couple of seconds.
It's not the pages as such Ray, it's the time it takes for the last post on that page to be displayed when you click on the last post button that is the problem. The page itself comes up straightaway, but then takes ages for the last post to actually display. :eyebrow:
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 09:37:58
Just out of curiosity, enabled adblock for this site, and it lists virtually every button and smiley on the page as blockable items!! :mad:
I wonder whether it's processing them even thought they're allowed. Try switching to the Core theme in your profile, see if that helps.
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 09:39:36
It's not the pages as such Ray, it's the time it takes for the last post on that page to be displayed when you click on the last post button that is the problem. The page itself comes up straightaway, but then takes ages for the last post to actually display. :eyebrow:
Sorry, Mad, didn't put that very well what I meant was the page with the last post on it, I've just tried a couple threads with over 3000 posts and the last post comes up in a within 2 or 3 seconds. :)
Quote from: Rik on Mar 22, 2008, 09:46:21
I wonder whether it's processing them even thought they're allowed. Try switching to the Core theme in your profile, see if that helps.
That's the way it seems to me Rik - if they are totally disabled, the problem just disappears - I'll try the core theme and see how I get on. 8)
Edit: Hmmmm - that does seem to have made a difference - time to last post displaying is now down to 12 to 15 seconds - but that's still quite a lag :think:
Quote from: Sheltieuk on Mar 22, 2008, 09:47:18
Sorry, Mad, didn't put that very well what I meant was the page with the last post on it, I've just tried a couple threads with over 3000 posts and the last post comes up in a within 2 or 3 seconds. :)
NP Ray - I'm sure if this was a widespread problem, it would have come up before. It's just very very puzzling. If it was only my desktop, I'd just think it's because it's a bit old, but my laptop is still fairly new with a different OS, so where do you go from there? :-\
Do you visit any other SMF forums, Mad?
To be honest, I don't know Rik - I'll check a couple of my regular forums out later to see what they use - never really taken much notice before. :)
Try Simon's PC Pals (http://www.pc-pals.com/smf/index.php). At least we might establish whether it's a reaction with SMF or something specific to us.
That looks like an interesting forum - can anyone join? Even hoobs? ;D
Well - you're not going to like this Rik (I certainly don't), but it's obviously not SMF thats the problem - last posts on PC Pals display virtually instantly.
Curiouser and curiouser :think:
try Seamonkey, the posts appear almost instantly here :thumb:
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 12:13:22
Well - you're not going to like this Rik (I certainly don't), but it's obviously not SMF thats the problem - last posts on PC Pals display virtually instantly.
We're going into a huddle in the back room to have a think about what this could be. Do you use the enhanced quick reply box? If so, does it change when that's off?
Quote from: Rik on Mar 22, 2008, 12:19:04
We're going into a huddle in the back room to have a think about what this could be. Do you use the enhanced quick reply box? If so, does it change when that's off?
Oh dear - have I started something here? Sorry - never meant to cause problems. 8)
I just use the standard reply box that comes up when you click reply.
Quote from: The Doctor on Mar 22, 2008, 12:16:43
try Seamonkey, the posts appear almost instantly here :thumb:
Thanks for the suggestion Philip :thumb: - will have a look at that if I (or Rik and the boys in the back room ;)) don't come up with anything to fix FF.
It's odd, Mad, and the kind of thing we like to work out if we can. Moving you to Core should have eliminated the default theme, Trying PC Pals should have eliminated the SMF software (we are both on the same version). One difference between us is that we use karma and Pals doesn't. Simon will, undoubtedly, let me know which other mods are in place there. The enhanced QR and the hyperlink mod I know we share, so it can't be them.
For the record, can you let me know what security software you are using please.
Have you tried clearing your cache and re-starting FF, just in case?
Quote from: Rik on Mar 22, 2008, 12:27:03
For the record, can you let me know what security software you are using please.
Have you tried clearing your cache and re-starting FF, just in case?
Cheers Rik - appreciate your efforts :thumb:
I use the hardware firewall on my router (Netgear DG834G) and Comodo av (version 2.0.17.58 if that makes any difference) - both of which I was using prior to installing FF, and yes - have cleared cache and restarted FF several times.
I've just had a mild tweak of your profile - I don't think it will make any difference, but it's worth a try. Can you see any effect? Maybe we just need to get you to 5,000 posts. :)
Can you also confirm exactly the sequence of events you go through for the problem to show, so that we are certain we are lloking at the same thing. Also, could you list the addons you have in use, please.
Whatever you did, all add ons are enabled, and it's knocked the lag down to about 10 to 15 seconds :)
So that you know what I'm doing, I either click on the link in the "last 5 posts", or the link to the right showing the last post in the part of the forum (as in Computer Discussion), or go into ,say, Computer Discussion and the click on the last post in the "idnetters and firefox" thread - all come up with the same result.
The addons currently installed are:
adblock plus
fasterfox
FEBE
flagfox
noscript
tabmixplus
talkback
Cheers 8)
Odd. All I did was change the first day of the week to Monday, and uncheck "Show most recent personal messages at top." merely because they matched the settings I use.
I Use Flagfox and FEBE, so it shouldn't be them.
I don't recognise the 'last five posts' link, can you expand a bit please (I always use 'show unread').
Sorry Rik - it's not last 5 posts at all - it's "recent posts" underneath the forum boards on the home page :-[
Quote from: Rik on Mar 22, 2008, 12:53:40
Odd. All I did was change the first day of the week to Monday, and uncheck "Show most recent personal messages at top." merely because they matched the settings I use.
Must be your magic vibes, but theres a definite difference ;)
Right, that one I know. Still displays in about 2 seconds for me, though.
I just wonder if the software sorts on a Monday basis - highly unlikely, and your PMs shouldn't affect post display time.
How do you feel about uninstalling FF and starting from scratch? >:D
For the moment, though, could you disable all addons, and then re-enable them one at a time, and see if you can identify which one triggers the slow down?
Lance and I are flummoxed, and until Simon's next in, I can't check which mods are different here to Pals.
Quote from: Rik on Mar 22, 2008, 13:04:27
How do you feel about uninstalling FF and starting from scratch? >:D
Errrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ;D
Quote from: Rik on Mar 22, 2008, 13:04:27
For the moment, though, could you disable all addons, and then re-enable them one at a time, and see if you can identify which one triggers the slow down?
Did that earlier on this morning Rik, and adblock plus and noscript are the culprits - both, individually, trigger the slow down, and together they make it worse than the sum of their individual effects, even though they are both disabled for this site. As soon as I disable them altogether in FF addons the problem goes away.
I wonder if they could be interacting with anything else? :think:
Have you tried this in Adblock?
Defining exception rules
Sometimes you will notice that one of your filters that is usually working quite well blocks in some case blocks something that it shouldn't be blocking. You don't want to remove this filter but you still don't want it to match in this one case.
That's what exception rules are good for — they allow you to define cases where filters shouldn't be applied. For example if you are unhappy with your filter adv blocking http://example.com/advice.html, you can define an exception rule @@advice. Exception rules are no different from filter rules, you can use wildcards or regular expressions. You only have to precede them by @@ to indicate an exception rule.
Exception rules can do more. If an exception rule starts with http:// or https:// (optionally with a pipe before it) it will make whole pages an exception. For example, if your exception rule is @@|http://example.com and you open some page from example.com — Adblock Plus will be entirely disabled on this page and nothing will be blocked.
I've checked, and when you disable ab+ on a site, it puts that exact exception rule in for you.
The other thought is could the Tabmixplus session recovery have a role in this?
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 13:23:26
I've checked, and when you disable ab+ on a site, it puts that exact exception rule in for you.
Thought it might. :(
Rearrange these words into a well-known expression, straws at clutching. ;)
Quote from: Rik on Mar 22, 2008, 13:24:40
Rearrange these words into a well-known expression, straws at clutching. ;)
:rofl:
Know the feeling ;)
Also, disabled the tabmixplus session manager - made no difference :(
The mods on Pals are:
1. SMF 1.0.9 and 1.1 RC3-1 Security Patch 1.0.8/1.1 RC3
2. Spam Black List 0.2.1
3. New Topic Button 1.0
4. Rename Topic 1.0.2
5. URL Popup 1.0
6. Tagging System 1.0.1
7. More HTML tags 1.0.3
8. SMF 1.1.1 Update Package 1.1.1
9. SMF 1.1.2 Update Package 1.1.2
10. SMF 1.0.11 / 1.1.3 Update 1.1
11. Enhanced Quick Reply Box 2.0 2.0
12. SMF 1.0.12 / 1.1.4 / 2.0 b1.1 Update 1.0
Yes, Mad, anyone is allowed to join, including Hoobs, as long as they don't over-run the place! ;D
Enhanced Quick Reply Box 2.0 is this for quick typist's only?I know I type very slowly so would never need this option :D
Not really, Steve, it just means you don't have to load the reply screen, you can reply right after the last message in the thread.
Quote from: Simon on Mar 22, 2008, 14:13:56
Yes, Mad, anyone is allowed to join, including Hoobs, as long as they don't over-run the place! ;D
Us quiet, shy, retiring hoobs? As if >:D
It might have actually been better if you had registered, because there's a remote chance that the issue we're talking about, might not occur with Guests. :dunno:
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 12:26:00
Thanks for the suggestion Philip :thumb: - will have a look at that if I (or Rik and the boys in the back room ;)) don't come up with anything to fix FF.
good luck :thumb: :fingers:
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 15:30:39
Us quiet, shy, retiring hoobs? As if >:D
Can you try joining Pals, Mad, to see if the forum then slows.
Quote from: Simon on Mar 22, 2008, 15:32:26
It might have actually been better if you had registered, because there's a remote chance that the issue we're talking about, might not occur with Guests. :dunno:
I'll try that later then - thanks :thumb:
Edit: someones already nicked my username - now that's just not fair - have to think of another one now! :eek4:
OK - that's totally weird - registering then logging in to the PC Pals forum has indeed increased the time taken to display the last post - up to 10 to 12 seconds.
So why should that be? :think:
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 15:37:31
I'll try that later then - thanks :thumb:
Edit: someones already nicked my username - now that's just not fair - have to think of another one now! :eek4:
What?? Someone's got 'madasahatter' already? Are you sure you haven't registered before? :-\
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 15:53:54
So why should that be? :think:
Your profile is invoked when you're a member. Did you use the same avatar? It might be worth killing that briefly, and see if it helps.
Quote from: Simon on Mar 22, 2008, 15:56:41
What?? Someone's got 'madasahatter' already? Are you sure you haven't registered before? :-\
;D
Positive;D. Now go in there and sort them out for me will you? Tell them that name is reserved for hoobs, and they should choose another one immediately ;D
Quote from: Rik on Mar 22, 2008, 15:58:05
Your profile is invoked when you're a member. Did you use the same avatar? It might be worth killing that briefly, and see if it helps.
Didn't actually set anything on the profile at all, so it will just be a default profile without any changes at all Rik 8)
Are you trying to tell me that SMF is hoobist software? ;D
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 15:59:04
Positive ;D. Now go in there and sort them out for me will you? Tell them that name is reserved for hoobs, and they should choose another one immediately ;D
If it was a non-poster from years ago, I would have, but yes there is another one, and they have made a small number of posts, so I can't really remove them. This guy's name is Carl - that's not you, is it?
Rik, Mad's profile is empty on Pals at the moment, so it can't be the avatar.
Quote from: Simon on Mar 22, 2008, 15:56:41
What?? Someone's got 'madasahatter' already? Are you sure you haven't registered before? :-\
oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there's more than one :out:
They're breeding, Doc! Got a couple of house bricks handy? :o ;D
run to the hills :eek4:
Quote from: Simon on Mar 22, 2008, 16:01:38
If it was a non-poster from years ago, I would have, but yes there is another one, and they have made a small number of posts, so I can't really remove them. This guy's name is Carl - that's not you, is it?
Rik, Mad's profile is empty on Pals at the moment, so it can't be the avatar.
Definitely not me Simon - honest injun ;D
Quote from: The Doctor on Mar 22, 2008, 16:01:55
oh no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there's more than one :out:
:rofl:
Cheers Philip ;D
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 16:00:48
Are you trying to tell me that SMF is hoobist software? ;D
Not in the least, Mad, just trying to work out what might be happening - and failing. :(
Quote from: Simon on Mar 22, 2008, 16:01:38
Rik, Mad's profile is empty on Pals at the moment, so it can't be the avatar.
Just out of curiosity, how did you know which profile was mine?
Most recent member, at a guess. :)
Quote from: Rik on Mar 22, 2008, 16:05:41
Not in the least, Mad, just trying to work out what might be happening - and failing. :(
I know Rik - and I appreciate all the help you guys are giving :)
Quote from: Rik on Mar 22, 2008, 16:06:59
Most recent member, at a guess. :)
Now that's what I call using your brain - something us hoobs ain't very good at, cos it hurts ;D
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 16:06:18
Just out of curiosity, how did you know which profile was mine?
Indeed, most recent member, and the user name was also a clue! I'll be expecting Jerry later. ;)
Quote from: Simon on Mar 22, 2008, 16:10:57
Indeed, most recent member, and the user name was also a clue! I'll be expecting Jerry later. ;)
Can't hide anywhere can I? ;D
Quote from: madasahatter on Mar 22, 2008, 16:07:35
I know Rik - and I appreciate all the help you guys are giving :)
At the moment we seem to have arrived at some kind of interaction between the SMF profile and your addons, but why defeats me, as for a read, there really shouldn't be anything much happening with the profile. I'd go and have another look at yours, but if a default profile does it, I don't think I would find anything.
I'll take a dig around the SMF forums and see if there's anything vaguely similar.
This just gets stranger - prompted by a discussion about IETab in another thread, my hooby brain got an idea (not often that happens and it jolly well hurt I can tell you ;D). Re-installed IETab (had uninstalled it earlier in an attempt to find out what was causing the problem), turned it on, and hey presto - last posts display instantly again.:yeay: :happy:
Only trouble is that this seems to mess with the more smileys link >:(
Hoobs can't win for losing it seems - solve one thing and another pops up in it's place :(
It certainly sounds like your addons are tripping over each other, Mad.
Certainly does Rik - tried searching for any known probs between the addons I have installed, and can't find anything so far. The thing is that ABP and NS are causing the problem with FF rendering, but without those I might as well go back to Opera. I'll keep messing to see what I can come up with. :)
What actually happens to the more smileys link?
When I post a reply, it opens up a new, full page tab with all the extra smileys on - I can then click on the one(s) I want to use, but then the only way to get back to my post is to close that more smileys window. The problem then is that if I find I want to use another "more smiley" in the same post I click on the "more" link and nothing happens - so it only allows me to get the extra smileys page once in a post. In FF rendering, clicking on the "more" link just brings up a little window and I can leave that open all the time.
:think:
The [more] link will only allow one smileys window to open at a time. Are you sure the window is closing, and not just minimising, Mad?
Has to be a bug in the IETab addon, I think. Could you not just leave the more smileys tab permanently open, and switch to it as needed? I ask, because you refer to both tab and window...
Or what Simon said (altogether now... :))
Yep - the tab that it opens when it displays disappears, and nothing else appears in the taskbar or system tray
Quote from: Rik on Mar 24, 2008, 11:50:28
Has to be a bug in the IETab addon, I think. Could you not just leave the more smileys tab permanently open, and switch to it as needed? I ask, because you refer to both tab and window...
Or what Simon said (altogether now... :))
Sorry if I'm confusing things Rik. I can't leave the more smileys tab permanently open because while that is open, it won't let me go back to the idnetters post reply tab :(
Weird...
Have a look in Task Manager 9Ctrl+Alt+Del). If I open the more smileys window, I see it as a running application, with the post form as a separate one. What you you have?
So, are you saying it won't let you switch between tabs, Mad?
Actually, the [more] smileys window isn't a 'normal' window, so that may explain it - Rik, isn't it some sort of java thing?
TBH, I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Quote from: Simon on Mar 24, 2008, 12:00:13
So, are you saying it won't let you switch between tabs, Mad?
Yep.
I've disabled Tabmixplus to see if that is getting in on the act and causing problems, but no difference whatsoever :(
How about task manager, Mad - what's that showing?
Quote from: Rik on Mar 24, 2008, 11:57:31
Weird...
Have a look in Task Manager 9Ctrl+Alt+Del). If I open the more smileys window, I see it as a running application, with the post form as a separate one. What you you have?
Doesn't show the more smileys window as a running application, though it does if I switch back to FF rendering.
I'm sure that the more smileys IS a javascript application too.
Have you checked for a Java update?
I wonder if the addon doesn't handle Java correctly? Try http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/weather/light0900.htm
The [more] window opens as a separate window for me, and appears in the task bar, from which I can switch back to the main window, and keep the smilies window minimised. I can only guess one of your add-ons isn't playing ball, Mad.
Quote from: Rik on Mar 24, 2008, 12:07:32
Have you checked for a Java update?
I wonder if the addon doesn't handle Java correctly? Try http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/weather/light0900.htm
That site looks fine to me, but I will check for java updates
Quote from: Simon on Mar 24, 2008, 12:11:55
The [more] window opens as a separate window for me, and appears in the task bar, from which I can switch back to the main window, and keep the smilies window minimised. I can only guess one of your add-ons isn't playing ball, Mad.
Yep - the same for me Simon in FF rendering - which suggests that it is something to do with the IETab addon - problem is that there is no update for that.
What's this IETab? Is that a FF add-on? ???
http://ietab.mozdev.org/
Is that needed now? I can't remember the last time I needed IE to view a website. :dunno:
I haven't hit an issue for a long time.
Right - have re-nstalled java. The "more" link still opens up the more smileys page in a new tab, but I can now swap between tabs back to my post, so it looks like I'm finally sorted.
:happy: :yeay:
Cheers guys :karmic:
Phew! :)
Quote from: Rik on Mar 24, 2008, 12:41:25
Phew! :)
Indeed - I can think of a few more choice words, but all you'd see is a load of stars where the words should be ;D
I see stars as it is, Mad. :)
Good result. It's certainly useful to know. :)
Oddly enough, when I launched FF today to test this, it tried and failed to install a java update. I wonder if there's a connection?
Don't say your FF has come out in sympathy with mine Simon ;D
Must be acute hoobitis. Nurse, quick, the forceps!! ;D
Not quite, Mad, as the smiley window still worked properly. ;)