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Technical News & Discussion => Broadband, Internet & General Computer News & Discussion => Topic started by: Dazbobaby on Feb 12, 2008, 06:10:24

Title: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Dazbobaby on Feb 12, 2008, 06:10:24
3 strikes and your out proposals from the Government aim to end illegal downloading.
This is truly frightening for various reasons and has enormous security overtones.
Who is going to monitor the usage within the ISP?

Let's not forget that the massive increase in pc sales during the 90's was due to mp3 and video downloads from the internet, as well as use of the internet itself. The majority of users do use the internet for illegal use? So will the ISP's who are forced to kick and ban users going to go out of business?

If you download dvd rom drive firmware to make the region free, or downgrade firmwares for psp's etc... are these illegal? under the rule of law, they are.
Browsing images on the internet is take for granted, but a great majority are likely to be copyrighted material, is this illegal?

Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 12, 2008, 09:15:34
Linky?
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Broadback on Feb 12, 2008, 10:05:18
Another ill thought out sound bite? To go the way of housing only for the employed?
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Noreen on Feb 12, 2008, 10:46:41
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7240234.stm
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 12, 2008, 10:50:39
Worrying, when you consider some of the shady characters running some ISP's. >:(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 12, 2008, 10:51:56
Thanks, Noreen. I can't help but wonder why the Govt is so keen to appease the music industry while not acting to bring prices paid here into line with prices paid in the States, say.

I can't see how this will work. File-sharing is not, in itself, illegal. How is an ISP to determine what content is legitimate and what is not?
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Noreen on Feb 12, 2008, 11:13:48
I think that this just another idea being aired to see what the reaction is. ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 12, 2008, 11:14:00
Quote from: Rik on Feb 12, 2008, 10:51:56
How is an ISP to determine what content is legitimate and what is not?

Ah - there's the rub. So many services use p2p these days (Sky,4OD etc). Is the technology around yet that can distinguish between legal and illegal p2p traffic? The trouble with all this is that the ISPs will need to invest more money, pushing prices up, and while all this packet sniffing or whatever is going on with every single packet that passes through (if that is even possible), traffic will be slowed down to such an extent that we'll be back to dial up speeds before you know it.

To be honest, I think this smacks of the record companies having failed to curb piracy, so they are now just wanting to pass the buck and make it someone elses problem while they sit on their backsides raking in the money.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 12, 2008, 11:19:28
Yup.  >:(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Azazel on Feb 12, 2008, 12:29:37
yay for stupid ill thought out policys published by the red tops!

Well thats one for the really really dumb laws box, lets just penalise those people not tech savvy enough to use encrypted peer to peer traffic!
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 12, 2008, 12:29:54
Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 12, 2008, 11:14:00


To be honest, I think this smacks of the record companies having failed to curb piracy, so they are now just wanting to pass the buck and make it someone elses problem while they sit on their backsides raking in the money.

Agreed, they are just greedy bar stewards. ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 12, 2008, 12:44:34
It's taken this money grabing gvnmt and the US 6 years to not find Bin Laden, what chance finding 6 million p2p users?

It's another let's get up the backsides of the big companies and make as much profit for them, the share holders, fat cats and gvmnt as we can.

And to hell with street crime, NHS, schools etc
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 12, 2008, 12:54:30
Indeed Malc, cannot argue with that. ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Philip on Feb 12, 2008, 16:53:33
Once again a huge fuss is made about people who download movies and music, which only affects those who already have massively inflated wallets, yet nothing seems to be done about all the sick websites and those people involved with them.  ??? Bizarre.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 12, 2008, 16:55:24
Money talks, Philip - apparently directly to the Government. :(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 12, 2008, 16:59:45
Nor the ar*eholes that send out Trojans etc.

This looks like a case of greedy music industry leaders, telling our naive government just what they should be doing, clearly there is nobody within government that is capable of giving this serious thought.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 12, 2008, 17:07:28
Isn't 'Government' combined with 'thought' an oxymoron, In?  ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 12, 2008, 17:13:14
Indeed Rik..  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 12, 2008, 17:35:42
The problem is that the industries with pots of money will always have more influence than anything else. The whole thing stinks - at the end of the day, if the money grabbing recording industry had changed with the market, as every other industry has had to do, they would be laughing now - but they just sat back and expected everything to carry on as it was, and now they want everyone else to pay for their massive mistake.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 12, 2008, 17:38:53
If they want to stop piracy, they could start by looking at equitable pricing.  >:(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 12, 2008, 17:53:54
Yep - the answer is in their very own hands, but they just won't accept the fact that the public knows how much they are being ripped off, and are reacting to it. That's not even mentioning the cr*p that is DRM etc.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Sebby on Feb 12, 2008, 19:07:52
I read about this on the way home from work. In some ways I can see the reasoning behind it; it'll certainly scare a number of users and probably stop them doing it. But, like most things the Government do, it doesn't really tackle the problem. If we got a good deal on music downloads in the first place (like other countries already do) I think a lot more people would be willing to buy.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: bob_s on Feb 12, 2008, 19:51:09
This is definitely a bad idea from the uk government.  But as mentioned above, what will they stop at if they start this.

I know downloading movies and music hurts the industries.   But with so many other things on the internet why is this the thing they are looking at locking down.  And where would it stop, listening to international radio, watching international tv. 

We will end up with internet access like China.

Also to provide this service, it will surely cost the isp's twice.  Once to do the work for the government , then with the loss in trade as some users shift to lower usage packages.

Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Noreen on Feb 12, 2008, 23:41:04
There's more about this here. http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3403-illegal-music-downloaders-to-face-internet-ban.html
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 13, 2008, 07:36:04
Hey All

http://torrentfreak.com/illegal-downloaders-will-not-face-uk-ban-080212/

if you want a really good laugh look at this proposal

http://gizmodo.com/353847/riaa-wants-your-anti+virus-software-to-screen-your-downloads-for-pirated-content

Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 13, 2008, 08:05:05
Thing is its not just music in torrents is it, there is always cracked software and personally I would happily see that stopped, yes maybe we are being ripped off for out AV,s and software but research costs money also, but with most offering great discounts (apart from Symantec) to carry on using their products after the first year it really gets me wound up when people pay X amount for an expensive pc then use cracked versions of windows, photoshop, AV's etc, I agree the governments idea is draconian but I would love to see the people with illegal software stopped in their tracks.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Simon on Feb 13, 2008, 08:09:29
Most 'cracked' software does come at a price though.  The torrent community is rife with trojans and other nasties, so if you want to stay 'clean', stay legal.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 13, 2008, 08:13:52
Quote from: Simon on Feb 13, 2008, 08:09:29
Most 'cracked' software does come at a price though.  The torrent community is rife with trojans and other nasties, so if you want to stay 'clean', stay legal.
Agreed Simon but many seem to get away with it still, personally I never use torrents like with live messenger I never use sharing folders, I have a great lack of trust in such things.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 09:52:06
Can't argue with any of that. How does an ISP examine a binary packet and determine if it's illegal? Impossible, I'd say.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 13, 2008, 11:09:45
Quote from: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 09:52:06
Can't argue with any of that. How does an ISP examine a binary packet and determine if it's illegal? Impossible, I'd say.
I imagine it is Rik, but Microsoft would happily put something is their os that alerted somebody to illicit behaviour I would imagine, this country is really starting to try and get an iron grip on its populous, I wonder if its even p2p music downloads they worry about sometimes and just want to snoop to monitor us, then adjust the financial ratios so we can go buy more products to dumb us down, so discontent does not raise its head in the masses, after all a shiny new bluray player and LCD/Plasma will keep the population at home being  spoon fed propaganda and mind numbing drivel for quite a while.  >:D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 11:14:03
You've been reading Orwell again, Gary. :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 13, 2008, 11:33:32
Quote from: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 11:14:03
You've been reading Orwell again, Gary. :)
No Rik just watching the news on ;) any country that has devices that produce high pitched noise for the under 25's hearing range for dispersal worries me, even though we could do with a few round here saying that :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 11:39:18
That was on my local news last night as well Gary, worrying development.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 13, 2008, 11:41:43
Quote from: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 11:39:18
That was on my local news last night as well Gary, worrying development.
I agree with the principle I guess, its a hard one really, as Liberty say it infringes on their civil rights, saying that their behaviour infringes on mine, but I don't think electronic noise devices is the way to go, that's just plain scary
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 11:43:51
Indeed Gary, they need to get to the root of the problem/s, these devices will only move the problem elsewhere.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 13, 2008, 11:46:21
Quote from: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 11:43:51
Indeed Gary, they need to get to the root of the problem/s, these devices will only move the problem elsewhere.
Or they will get ear plugs  >:D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 11:47:53
Of course, the use of MP3 players will soon render the devices ineffective anyway, as early damage occurs to their hearing.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 11:49:50
No doubt their hoods will mask most of the sound out.. ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 11:53:41
It's when they start sewing ear protectors into the hoods...  :eyebrow:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 13, 2008, 11:55:49
Quote from: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 11:49:50
No doubt their hoods will mask most of the sound out.. ;)
Actually the idea of a bunch of hooded teenagers bashing into each other because they cant' see properly, while trying to escape being deafened by a shrill high pitched noise is starting to appeal, great tv as well, much better than Big Brother. I can just imagine Brucy yelling "higher" to the audience >:D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 13, 2008, 12:02:29
Quote from: Killhippie on Feb 13, 2008, 11:55:49
I can just imagine Brucy yelling "higher" to the audience >:D

:rofl:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 12:09:29
I have to be honest and admit it is starting to appeal to me as well..  ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 12:11:03
Having been woken by a smoke alarm demanding a new battery at 5am, I'm all in favour of the technique.  >:D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 12:13:01
Mine does that as well, bloody inconsiderate batteries..  ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 12:14:29
It's all down to temperature, In, the house is probably at its coolest then, so battery voltage drops. Damned annoying...
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 13, 2008, 12:19:36
Quote from: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 12:14:29
It's all down to temperature, In, the house is probably at its coolest then, so battery voltage drops. Damned annoying...
That used to happen to my bike lights in the Winter Rik years back, in the end I wrapped it in that thin foam sheet you can get, and then it didn't get so cold
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 12:23:20
Quote from: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 12:14:29
It's all down to temperature, In, the house is probably at its coolest then, so battery voltage drops. Damned annoying...

Not in my case Rik, I have storage heaters, it is like a bloody oven by 5' O'clock. ( a.m.)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 13, 2008, 12:26:23
Quote from: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 12:23:20
Not in my case Rik, I have storage heaters, it is like a bloody oven by 5' O'clock. ( a.m.)
But freezing by 8pm ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 12:28:38
Quote from: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 12:23:20
Not in my case Rik, I have storage heaters, it is like a bloody oven by 5' O'clock. ( a.m.)

In that case, you're suffering from malicious battery syndrome. ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 12:48:23
Quote from: Killhippie on Feb 13, 2008, 12:26:23
But freezing by 8pm ;)

;D ;D Actually Gary, they are better than that because my timer is about 2 hours out on my Economy 7 .. in my favour, it doesn't come on til around 1.50 am, nice. ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 13, 2008, 13:17:07
I have gas powered radiators so its instant when I need it, but have it set to timer, saying that come April they will be off :yes: Spring is on its way I have my first daffodil up in the Garden already





Edit: Markup sorted
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 13, 2008, 13:34:03
No gas here Gary....but I still wouldn't change my storage heaters even if there was, OK not ideal, but no servicing costs or boiler breakdowns to worry about.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 13, 2008, 13:38:53
I have a friend who is a corgi registered, so we get him to do that, much cheaper than the plans you get ;D But I agree it can be expensive if you have to get it done and you are not prepared for the cost and the dodgy daves who try it on >:(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 13, 2008, 18:24:02
Funny how most people seem to know a "Dodgy Dave" innit? ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 13, 2008, 18:37:39
Starting with the Federation of Master Builders in my experience.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 14, 2008, 00:40:10
...and ending at eBay for me..  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gramps on Feb 14, 2008, 09:14:06
What is the position regarding file sharing in other EU countries ?
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Noreen on Feb 14, 2008, 10:18:40
I think that I saw somewhere that the "suggested" rules are already in existence in France, not 100% sure though.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 14, 2008, 11:35:09
Last I read about France was that these rules were going to be introduced - be interesting to see what happens
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Noreen on Feb 14, 2008, 11:38:10
That's probably what I saw, Mad.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 14, 2008, 11:38:55
I thought there was an EU ruling that said member states didn't have to enforce this?
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Broadback on Feb 14, 2008, 11:41:57
Our government will enforce it anyway. Look at the pound/kilo controversy. Now the banning of WW2 planes!
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 14, 2008, 11:45:13
Quote from: Rik on Feb 14, 2008, 11:38:55
I thought there was an EU ruling that said member states didn't have to enforce this?

I think that ruling was to do with ISPs not being made to give up personal details of file sharers a la:

http://torrentfreak.com/european-filesharers-anonymous-080129/
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 14, 2008, 11:50:45
You're right.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 14, 2008, 11:53:50
Quote from: Rik on Feb 14, 2008, 11:50:45
You're right.

Oh my word - permission to write home sir! ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 14, 2008, 11:55:26
Granted. Carry on sergeant. :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 14, 2008, 11:59:56
Thank you Sir! ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 15, 2008, 10:31:52
This is interesting - it's all going horribly wrong already!!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/15/tiscali_bpi_agreement/
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 15, 2008, 10:36:15
In the states they do monitor p2p users already in a way, Quote "Comcast has been tinkering with the way file-sharing software works on its network, slowing transfer speeds of data used by applications such as BitTorrent. Comcast has also been giving the heave-ho to customers who use the Internet most heavily, explaining that certain individual downloaders are using as much bandwidth as some of its business customers" seems there is a worry about bandwidth as traffic increases worldwide, so prepare for this probably to happen elsewhere for similar reasons.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Simon on Feb 15, 2008, 10:50:16
Why does virtually every internet story these days seem to have the word 'Tiscali' in it?  ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 15, 2008, 10:54:20
Quote from: Simon on Feb 15, 2008, 10:50:16
Why does virtually every internet story these days seem to have the word 'Tiscali' in it?  ;D
Well its not because of Joanna Lumley that's for sure ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 15, 2008, 13:44:22
And what the ISPA thinks of it all:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7246403.stm

The words "couldn't organise a **** up in a brewery" spring to mind
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 15, 2008, 13:55:48
I don't know why with obsessive gvmnt don't just put a web cam in every room in every house in the country and watch us all day long. Then tax us for it.

OK, people may be stealing a few quid of Simon Cowell etc, BUT pedofiles download child pawn, muslims dowload terrorist documents, children play violent games & watch 18 films on the internet.

Nobody gives a f.

What am I missing here






How hang on  (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii208/wakeborda/money.gif) (http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg101/Rico_Ramirez/money.jpg)


Gordon Brown, we know now   (http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd110/lieu_xauxi/money.jpg)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 15, 2008, 14:13:13
That the BPI seems to have the Govt in its pocket?
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 15, 2008, 14:17:13
I'm thinking 17.5% of every sale.

The gvmnt believe what they're told that EVERY download is a sale.

It's absolute rubbish, I have and know people who DL, and probably 1% of what I download, I would and DO buy.

The music industry are not loosing all this money, there is on way people would buy everything the DL.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 15, 2008, 14:24:00
If the Govt wants to act, it should be even-handed about it and ask the BPI why we are so massively over-charged in the UK.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 15, 2008, 14:26:02
Totally agree, 50% in the USA and parts of Europe.

It's rip off Britian again.


Eight years and I'm  :out:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 15, 2008, 14:28:23
We might even have a new PM by then. :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 15, 2008, 14:29:37
Quote from: Rik on Feb 15, 2008, 14:24:00
If the Govt wants to act, it should be even-handed about it and ask the BPI why we are so massively over-charged in the UK.

That would be far too much like using commmon sense, and actually doing the right thing for once. Because historically, like many industries, the record industry has got away with charging us far more for so long, they fail to see why it should change now. Other industries have had to adapt or die - it's time the record industry did the same, and it's time that the Government stood up and told them to. All makes me wonder how many brown envelopes with paper in are being passed around  ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 15, 2008, 14:30:16
Quote from: Rik on Feb 15, 2008, 14:28:23
We might even have a new PM by then. :)

New, but not necessarily with any different effect.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 15, 2008, 14:33:11
(S)he'd still be a lying, money grabbing  !%$*
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 15, 2008, 14:33:27
Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 15, 2008, 14:30:16
New, but not necessarily with any different effect.

I doubt we'd even notice...  :'(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 15, 2008, 14:37:32
Unfortunately, you're probably spot on there  >:(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 15, 2008, 14:49:59
I did notice the Heath/Wilson change and the Callaghan/Thatcher. Since then...  :(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Noreen on Feb 22, 2008, 11:59:45
More on this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7258437.stm
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 22, 2008, 12:04:56
I still wonder at the motivation of a Govt to protect the record industry while allowing it to over-charge us. :(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 22, 2008, 12:17:45
 Tht little useless money grabbing person, Andy Burham is our local MP for Atherton and Leigh. :rant2:

He's just sucking up the backsides of the big boys and nodding his head. What a wa----.

WHY is he not tiding up this town? Getting yobs of the street, getting amenaties? Isntead of running the town down?

He's got more than enough work here, instead of sticking his hooter into things that are nothing to do wih him.

End of the day it's about the money grabing Gvmnt and not local people.

:rant:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 22, 2008, 12:23:50
even at an isp level this is all pointless, people will just shift back on to encrypted usenet such as easynews giganews etc. All pointless and expensive. Idiots!

Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 22, 2008, 12:26:02
And no I didn't vote for him, I'd rather vote for Adlof Hitler  ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 22, 2008, 12:28:52
Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 22, 2008, 12:23:50
even at an isp level this is all pointless, people will just shift back on to encrypted usenet such as easynews giganews etc. All pointless and expensive. Idiots!

This is what niggles me. The politicians keep coming out with these soundbites, but they seem to have no concept of how the technology works.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 22, 2008, 12:33:25
i think this is probably due to consultants being paid a boatload of money to tell politicians what they want to hear, the consultants of course won't say the truth as they will get paid a boatload of cash. The nhs is probably a good example of this.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 22, 2008, 12:38:48
Where do I get an application form? :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 22, 2008, 12:39:54
aparantly karoo are already sending these messages out, relating to suspensions etc, I also know someone who got a notification from ntl years ago.

Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 22, 2008, 12:42:09
I got one from NTL, they told me they wanted to increase their charge by 50%. I told them where they could put their connection (basic TV cable), and I haven't paid since. As I suspected, they haven't bothered to disconnect me.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 22, 2008, 12:45:14
I got a letter for pipex, complaining about, not Torrents, but, volume of downloads.

Offering me to sign an agreement to reduce my unlimited broadband usage, or take a MAC code.

Needless to say, I opted for the second option.  ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 22, 2008, 12:54:21
Lucky escape if you ask me, Malc. :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Simon on Feb 22, 2008, 20:43:12
Crikey, that must be a first - Pipex offering a MAC code.  They really didn't like you, Malc!  ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 22, 2008, 21:00:40
The sad part was, I had been complaining about speeds for 12 monthe prior, while getting anything I wanted over night.

Then a few days after asking for my MAC that letter arrived. WHY not 12 months earlier  ??? ???
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 23, 2008, 05:08:10
Because they have a left hand and a right hand - and the two are not connected to the same brain (if any!!)?  :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 23, 2008, 06:00:30
Readers of this thread might also want to take a look at ThinkBroadband (http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=idnet&Number=3274792&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=31), where Simon has given his views on the proposals.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 23, 2008, 06:09:59
Sounds like Simon is avoliding the piracy issue (quite rightly) but saying they can't or shouldn't be the ones doing it.

Tiscalli have also refused to foot the bill for sending out letters saying the BPI shouild pay.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 23, 2008, 06:18:33
Technically, it's almost, if not completely, impossible for an ISP to differentiate between legal material and illegal material. The same file could be either, how does the ISP know? IAC, the only way to check is to inspect the entire traffic stream at customer level, packet inspection won't work. That raises privacy issues. What if the data is encrypted, a common technique to bypass throttling?

Much copyright 'theft' is a civil rather than criminal issue anyway.

Law enforcement is for the police and courts, not the ISPs. IAC, there are more important issues for ISPs to deal with, eg child porn.

This is a greedy industry persuading a stupid Govt, imo. :(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: stevenrw on Feb 25, 2008, 16:16:03
There's only one thing that surprises me in this whole matter.
This mob of clowns we currently have in Westminister know about as much about internet traffic monitoring as I do, and that ain't much. So it is something of a surprise that that wag in No11 has not decided to tax illegal downloads rather than try to ban them.
Not like this mob to pass up an opportunity to levy another stealth tax. I bet Gordy wouldn't have missed that opportunity.
Make it legal, then charge for it. Get the ISP's to do your tax collecting for you. Bung some of the cash to the record/movie companies so they keep on donating to the party funds (thank you very much) and we'll keep the rest to pay for looking after everybodys personal records) Perhaps splashing out on a new tin box to keep them all in. Would be a bit more secure than the current system it seems.
So the British punter would get screwed yet again. As I said, I wonder why they've not thought of that yet, or maybe they have....
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 25, 2008, 16:19:47
The Budget will be here shortly. ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Broadback on Feb 25, 2008, 17:55:01
Yes, but I bet you have noticed that all the budgets now contain hidden clauses, which come to light over a period of time. N.B. These clkauses never reduce taxation! :pig:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 25, 2008, 17:56:11
That's called being a very clever politician - when the rises actually come into play, most people have forgotten that it's you thats responsible  ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 25, 2008, 18:04:20
The increase in taxation for people earning <£17K is a Brownery...  :mad:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 25, 2008, 18:06:32
Thats a double hit for us. Thanks Gordon you t---
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 25, 2008, 18:11:01
Quote from: Rik on Feb 25, 2008, 18:04:20
The increase in taxation for people earning <£17K is a Brownery...  :mad:

That's what I mean Rik - our Gordon is long gone from the treasury, so it can't be his fault can it? I bet Blair is just so glad that he's gone  ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 25, 2008, 18:16:09
I'm sure Blair calculated his 'retirement' date very carefully. It's certainly gone pear-shaped since.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 25, 2008, 18:19:14
It does make you wonder what Blair knew that nobody else did doesn't it?

Blair? Slimy? Smug? Objectionable? Devious? Surely not - you'll be saying that Tinky Winky is gay next.

Oh.....wait........ that's already been said hasn't it.

Ok - you'll be saying that Noddy is racist.

Oh.....wait........ that's............................................................  ;D

Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 25, 2008, 18:21:49
 :lol: :karmic:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 25, 2008, 18:26:22
Cheers Rik  :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 11:36:35
a nice article available here http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/28/filesharing_downing_st_petition/

well written and explained
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 11:41:31
So many pitfalls, I can see legal rumblings for years to come. :(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 11:44:37
I think more people will discover the use of browsing by anonymous proxy if this goes ahead ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 11:52:12
the issue is kill, that using browsing proxy's will not hide for example torrent traffic, due to that fact they are http proxy's and only allow the proxying of port 80 (web traffic). Sure you can browse a torrent related site with a proxy but this is not how the recording industries are busting people. They connect for example to a bit torrent swarm and then look at who has for example 100% of a file and then bust them. Due to the fact that the user generally is not using a gateway proxy their ip is revealed. A number of vpn services are available that allow you to vpn to a remote gateway, for example in sweden and then you appear as their ip  address. so your ip is not visable. However these services cost £. People have tried using the likes of tor www.torproject.org but it ruins their network and speeds are very slow, its wrong to use tor if you ask me they provide a decent service. Even then at the end of the day an ip address is not a personally identifiable object.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:08:59
Quote from: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 11:41:31
So many pitfalls, I can see legal rumblings for years to come. :(

Me too - the legal profession is going to do very nicely out of this thank you very much.

Also, what happened to the European ruling that an IP address cannot be used to personally identify a particular user?

Can't really see, either, what the BPI etc expects to get out of this. It's well known that they have abused the legal system in recent years by threatening legal action when they have no intention of using it - it's just leverage to get money out of you. Fine, "pirates" are (supposedly) kicked off the net, but they aren't suddenly gonna go running to the local CD/DVD emporium to spend their hard earned - they will just find yet another way round it all.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:15:17
You can browse by https though like using something like proxify though. I agree though that you shouldnt use these for such purposes but as I don't use torrent sites for music downloads etc so I'm not to concerned, but then again as has been said many legitimate services use torrents anyway so its a mine field, and even though an IP is not a personally identifiable object I'm sure that will be taken care of probably to make sure it is for the needs of supposed  internet fraud  :( we will end up with static ones on our ID cards I bet, I mean home taping never killed the music industry like the adverts said did it.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 12:16:04
Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:08:59
they will just find yet another way round it all.


It's just another form of war, measure and counter-measure, ad infinitum.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:18:04
Quote from: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 12:16:04
It's just another form of war, measure and counter-measure, ad infinitum.

Yep totally - but unfortunately, none of this addresses the cause of the problem in the first place - it merely "treats" the symptoms.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 12:18:44
Indeed, and puts costs up for legal users.  :sigh:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:18:52
Quotestatic ones on our ID cards I bet

thats a scary thought kill, if you want to hack me come to this ip  address, eeek, not good.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:19:29
Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:18:04
Yep totally - but unfortunately, none of this addresses the cause of the problem in the first place - it merely "treats" the symptoms.
which is the cheapest possible route Mad, sad as it is.
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:20:42
Quote from: Killhippie on Feb 28, 2008, 12:19:29
which is the cheapest possible route Mad, sad as it is.

As usual Gary, the people with the fattest wallets hold the most sway  >:(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:21:48
Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:18:52
thats a scary thought kill, if you want to hack me come to this ip  address, eeek, not good.
but a great way of checking your personal internet usage, and gleaning a profile of what you do and your political stance from your search and browsing habits though, a frightening thought indeed :(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:22:44
Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:20:42
As usual Gary, the people with the fattest wallets hold the most sway  >:(
Indeed Mad, and the divide just grows
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:27:14
Quote from: Killhippie on Feb 28, 2008, 12:21:48
but a great way of checking your personal internet usage, and gleaning a profile of what you do and your political stance from your search and browsing habits though, a frightening thought indeed :(

I always said that ID Cards were the thin end of the wedge - and this is just another use that they could be put to. Still, we can alwasy find ways round that - fake ID cards won't be hard to get hold of  >:D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:29:24
Quotefake ID cards won't be hard to get hold of

you'll need one being a hoob and all  >:D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:29:31
Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:27:14
I always said that ID Cards were the thin end of the wedge - and this is just another use that they could be put to. Still, we can alwasy find ways round that - fake ID cards won't be hard to get hold of  >:D
but full fake biometric ones will be harder to get surely, but as with all things they get hacked in the end, but I bet they would know from a scan and you would be whipped into a van quicker than you can hit search
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:30:22
Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:29:24
you'll need one being a hoob and all  >:D
and not many hoobs about, so you're in for a good grilling mad  ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:30:41
Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:29:24
you'll need one being a hoob and all  >:D

That's it - you carry on with your hoobist agenda  ;)

Et tu Gary? ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:32:06
Quote from: Killhippie on Feb 28, 2008, 12:29:31
but full fake biometric ones will be harder to get surely, but as with all things they get hacked in the end, but I bet they would know from a scan and you would be whipped into a van quicker than you can hit search

Unfortunately, it has already been proven that the full biometric cards that the Government intends to introduce can be faked easily and cheaply - where's the security in that?
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:35:18
Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:32:06
Unfortunately, it has already been proven that the full biometric cards that the Government intends to introduce can be faked easily and cheaply - where's the security in that?
in the money they make Mad, no security just cash as always :(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:37:41
git u knew i would have to google "et tu"
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:37:58
Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:30:41
That's it - you carry on with your hoobist agenda  ;)

Et tu Gary? ;)
I can just see all those Hoob camps, well baskets really  ;) ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 12:40:25
What are you lot smoking today??  :o ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:41:26
Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:37:41
git u knew i would have to google "et tu"

:rofl:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:43:40
Quote from: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 12:40:25
What are you lot smoking today??  :o ;D

I demand that those two are banned from the forums Rik - they are making fun of my ethnic origin - just shouldn't be allowed  :tongue:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 12:46:05
Can you prove your ethnicity, though?  ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:48:41
Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:43:40
I demand that those two are banned from the forums Rik - they are making fun of my ethnic origin - just shouldn't be allowed  :tongue:
No, never Mad, just saying the government and police like to shoot guns and point legislation at anyone who is the wrong colour sadly these days  :( and green is a pretty odd colour Mad, you may need a hair dye  ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:49:32
Quote from: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 12:46:05
Can you prove your ethnicity, though?  ;D
Indeed Rik can he do the "are you British enough" government test :-X
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:50:11
 a haircut more like
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:51:18
Quote from: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 12:46:05
Can you prove your ethnicity, though?  ;D

:rofl:

Just take one look at me Rik - do I LOOK normal?  ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:51:48
Quote from: Killhippie on Feb 28, 2008, 12:49:32
Indeed Rik can he do the "are you British enough" government test :-X

Must admit, I failed that miserably Gary  :(
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:52:36
Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:50:11
a haircut more like
and this coming from a mouse with a big hat :crazy: :out:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:53:08
Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:51:48
Must admit, I failed that miserably Gary  :(
So did I, and I am ???
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:53:22
Quote from: Killhippie on Feb 28, 2008, 12:52:36
and this coming from a mouse with a big hat :crazy: :out:

:rofl:

yayyyyy - go Gary - go Gary  ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:53:44
confess im going bald!

:-\
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:54:49
Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:53:44
confess im going bald!

:-\

What you mean GOING?  ;D  :out:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 28, 2008, 12:55:17
Never mind Mad, they are just green with envy. ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:55:29
Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:53:44
confess im going bald!

:-\
:pat:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 12:55:43
Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:51:18
:rofl:

Just take one look at me Rik - do I LOOK normal?  ;D

First define normal... :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:55:59
Quote from: Inactive on Feb 28, 2008, 12:55:17
Never mind Mad, they are just green with envy. ;)
you know whats next In,  :grn:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:56:07
Quote from: Inactive on Feb 28, 2008, 12:55:17
Never mind Mad, they are just green with envy. ;)

Cheers In - a friendly face at last
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:57:03
Quote from: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 12:55:43
First define normal... :)

that's true - never though of that :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:57:09
QuoteWhat you mean GOING?

do you remember how you got a red nose?

:angel:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Gary on Feb 28, 2008, 12:57:59
Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:57:09
do you remember how you got a red nose?

:angel:
:rofl:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 12:58:22
Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 12:57:09
do you remember how you got a red nose?

:angel:

:pmsl:

Now it's threats of violence - just because I'm different to you. ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 13:00:49
Oh look, you've made 15 posts in binary. :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: madasahatter on Feb 28, 2008, 13:03:25
Quote from: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 13:00:49
Oh look, you've made 15 posts in binary. :)

well spotted Rik  :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 13:05:58
Now you've blown it, you need another 9999 posts to go binary again. :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 28, 2008, 13:12:51
Quote from: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 13:05:58
Now you've blown it, you need another 9999 posts to go binary again. :)

Rik will tell you how it is done Mad.. ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 13:16:21
Application, dedication and lots of drivel. Easy really. :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 28, 2008, 13:40:17
Well I will be OK with number 3..  ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 28, 2008, 13:43:10
That sounds good to me
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Broadback on Feb 28, 2008, 13:48:38
Are you guys all related to Speedy Gonzalees? I no sooner think od a quip and the post has been superseded. I can't keep up! :del:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 13:51:02
its called iddiction  :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Malc on Feb 28, 2008, 13:53:58
Or boredom at work...
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Broadback on Feb 28, 2008, 14:17:08
Where are the moderators when you need them, Malc has just posted a four letter nasty, please remove it. :no:
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 14:26:47
Sorry, I was eating. :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 14:27:12
Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 28, 2008, 13:51:02
its called iddiction  :)

Shouldn't that be idniction? :)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 28, 2008, 14:27:50
Quote from: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 14:26:47
Sorry, I was eating. :)

How come none of us are surprised at that statement Rik? ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 28, 2008, 14:28:18
Quote from: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 14:27:12
Shouldn't that be idniction? :)

......or; Idnetion ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 14:31:50
Better, IDNation!!!  ;D
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Inactive on Feb 28, 2008, 14:35:32
Good IDea. ;)
Title: Re: The End of The Internet?
Post by: Rik on Feb 28, 2008, 14:36:22
That's only one letter away from a flat pack. :)