So i've treated myself to a new Acer laptop today.
Specs:-
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0 GHz
250 GB Hard Drive
2GB RAM
Gigabit Lan
Firewire
5 in 1 card reader
HD compatible
Comes with Vista..
The question is, Do i have to buy a new XP pro license to downgrade?
And wheres a good place to get XP ?
If you already own Windows XP Pro you can transfer the license to the new computer. If not, I believe eBuyer still sell it.
Quote from: Adam on Dec 26, 2007, 23:50:03
If you already own Windows XP Pro you can transfer the license to the new computer. If not, I believe eBuyer still sell it.
You can transfer the licence if the copy of XP is a retail version, the OEM version is 'locked' to the PC.
What Glenn said, Paul. Make sure you have all the necessary drivers first.
Why not install some sort of boot manager to dual boot XP and Vista. Once all is working ok in XP you can then delete Vista or as its a big disk just keep it.
Probably a good idea to keep it installed, at least until the warranty is up.
Good thinking, Ted. :)
Cheers, Will an OEM disk from ebuyer do or will i have to get the full version?
I've just looked and some XP disks are more expensive than Vista :laugh:
New OEM will be fine, Paul. I paid a 'premium' to have XP on my latest machine - I guess it's Microsoft's way of trying to get us to move.
Novatech does XP or Vista installs for quite cheap prices.. Boss got a new laptop for the new sales bloke and got XP on that for a little fee.
HP and Fujitsu were both offering the choice recently. Clearly, they are responding to their market. (I think Dell do too.)
If you dual-boot Vista and XP (separate Drives of course), Windows provides the Boot Manager automatically on startup.
Works fine for me!
;D
Can that be done with a partitioned drive, Mo, or do they have to be physically separate?
On apple machines you can dual boot and I think that is on one drive :-\
I was thinking more along the lines of this (http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Boot-Manager-Disk/GAG-d.shtml)
or this (http://www.osloader.com/)
Both allow installation of multiple OS's on a single drive.
Do you have a personal favourite, Ted?
My understanding is that you can downgrade from Vista to XP, with XP being licenced via the Vista licence. In other words, you do not need a new, seperate licence.
I'm not sure how you would go about actually getting it installed though. Maybe have a word with support where you are buying from.
Quote from: Rik on Dec 28, 2007, 10:35:16
Do you have a personal favourite, Ted?
Yep. That would be, Grub or Lilo :hehe:
Saying that Vista even though slow is safer and with the new drive and quadcore chip technology coming in next year could speed things up, so its swings and roundabouts really, I think next year should see Vista becoming more mainstream anyway, when MS hits the cut off point for XP it will quickly fade, even I'm thinking Vista with IE7 as a safe means of browsing compared with the sieve that is IE7 on xp and firefox which even though a great browser has issues, and I wonder if IE8 which is rumoured to pass the acid test2 and comes into beta soon will be available for XP?
I bet MS extend the XP Support date Gary, I would guess that the majority of MS users are still using it.
I will not use Vista until I have to.
XP pro support goes to 2014 but there will be no more service packs after SP3, but the very nature of its architecture is out of date security wise so support is no good if its full of holes, Vista may appear slow and clunky compared with XP but you can't deny its a safer platform. I am an XP user but for safety Vista has it. I have a friend who works for MS in Seattle and they are all switching to Vista, saying that he uses a powermac at home dual booting Vista
My understanding is the same as Lance's. If you have Vista you can downgrade to XP for free. Just install it from whatever CD you have, give them a call to get a new activation code (if necessary, but that depends on when you last activated XP).
Would that work with OEM copies, Ann?
Quote from: Lance on Dec 28, 2007, 10:39:15
My understanding is that you can downgrade from Vista to XP, with XP being licenced via the Vista licence. In other words, you do not need a new, seperate licence.
I'm not sure how you would go about actually getting it installed though. Maybe have a word with support where you are buying from.
Quote from: Ann on Dec 28, 2007, 11:45:09
My understanding is the same as Lance's. If you have Vista you can downgrade to XP for free. Just install it from whatever CD you have, give them a call to get a new activation code (if necessary, but that depends on when you last activated XP).
Oh, that's interesting. So I could just load an XP CD into my laptop and install it over the top of Vista, saving my files and settings, or would I have to format the hard drive? Vista has a different file set up to XP, so I'm guessing the latter.
I'm pretty sure you'd need a format and reinstall.
It confirms what we said here:
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=10930
How do I downgrade?
Install a copy of Windows XP Professional with the product key that came with the copy, and then when you hit the activation screen - which is near the end of the installation process - select the activate by phone option rather than the online method. You'll likely end up talking with a live rep; tell him that you're downgrading from Vista to XP, and give him the Vista product key. The rep is supposed to walk you through the rest.
To add another point, I also understand that you can, at any point in the future, return back to Vista. I'm not 100% on that though.
Quote from: Ann on Dec 28, 2007, 12:19:54
You'll likely end up talking with a live rep; tell him that you're downgrading from Vista to XP, and give him the Vista product key. The rep is supposed to walk you through the rest.
Does MS only employ " him "'s? ;D
LOl well they seem to employ "its" mostly I can never work them out. I remember phoning them once years ago to be told it was £200 a go since at that time I had a oem version of windows :buttkick: the phone was put down quickly at my end 8)
Thanks guys, something to think about. ;)
OEM copies are supposed to be tied to the computer (or hardware) that they were supplied with, so it ought not to work. In reality, the rules of what works and what doesn't are very complicated and sometimes border on illegal so (http://bestsmileys.com/mouthzippedshut/2.gif)
I would never have a machine I had not installed my own copy of windows on, mostly they come with to much crud pre installed, I like to install windows myself, and only add the software I want and not the junk and themes some companies put on, you end up with a smoother OS when you do I think.
I agree, Gary. I removed virtually all the Acer stuff on my laptop.
Quote from: Rik on Dec 28, 2007, 09:49:34
Can that be done with a partitioned drive, Mo, or do they have to be physically separate?
I use separate HDDs Rik, but I am pretty sure it applies to any 'active' drive.
:)
Thanks, Mo. :)
Here's the new laptop:-
(http://www.uposted.co.uk/pics/medium/lappy.jpg)
Now have to take all the stuff from my old one and put it on this one :-\
I've decided to stick with vista and give it a go for a few weeks.
Let us know how you get on.
Got a Q already..
How do you share folders on Vista? I can't seem to pick any my shared folders.. XP to XP works fine. But Vista to XP (or vice versa) I cant seem to get to the shared folders..
Its a pain transferring files by USB stick.
Pass. :( You need Simon, Lance or Mo (whom I know all use Vista). If you see Sam (mrapoc) he's another option - I'm sure there are others, and I apologise to them for not remembering.
Sorry about late reply
Take a look in the sharing/network centre and ensure share folders is on. Make sure they are on the same workgroup and ensure firewalls are allowing them through (ESS seemed to block it no matter what so i dont have it)
Quote from: mrapoc on Jan 02, 2008, 22:26:22
Sorry about late reply
Take a look in the sharing/network centre and ensure share folders is on. Make sure they are on the same workgroup and ensure firewalls are allowing them through (ESS seemed to block it no matter what so i dont have it)
Got it sorted now.. http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=5159.0 (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=5159.0)
I've got ESS installed and have no problems with sharing :) aslongs you enable/allow sharing when you install.. Probly an option in settings somewhere but haven't looked.
As a fully qualified Microsoft Sales and Licencing Specialist i can confirm the following:
Rights to OEM versions of systems software are granted in the OEM License Terms. The OEM License Terms for most OEM versions of systems software do not grant downgrade rights. The exception is the OEM License Terms for the Windows® XP Professional operating system and the Windows Vista™ Business and Windows Vista Ultimate operating systems, which grant downgrade rights. See the full text of the OEM License Terms for the specific downgrade rights.
So if the laptop has Vista Business or Vista Ultimate you can downgrade, if not you cannot unfortunately. XP pro should still be available from most suppliers still as they have extended its shelf life for some time yet.
Quote from: Azazel on Jan 03, 2008, 11:32:48
they have extended its shelf life for some time yet.
Can you expand on that, Az. Is it MS who have extended the life?
I know XP pro as a business OS is supported to 2014 Rik, and I think XP pro was given till summer befor being withdrawn but I could be wrong, saying that more and more exploits are appearing for software on XP only, there is a new one for realplayer 11 on XP only, so I think its days could be up by the end of this year for just security resons as malware writers get better and better and vista seems much more resilient to attack :(
yeah a little while back they noted that no one wanted to use vista yet and therefore extended the supply of OEM licences for XP for system builders and various other suppliers, so with a little work you should be able to find a OEM copy for around the £50-70 mark.
They have also extended the end of life date for the OS and they are still supporting it till at least 2009
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx
That site gives details on the life cycle of their operating systems so should give you a better idea of when its all over.
So they've given it an extra 6-12 months of life. That is quite a climb down for MS, hopefully a sign that they recognise that they need to listen to their customers.
There are still lots of people trying to find new PC's with XP installed, others that have bought a new PC's with Vista installed are trying to find ways to revert back to XP. ;)
Here we go then, picking up the new laptop Friday ;D
Thanks for all your help this is how I landed.
Asus AP999 Notebook
Intel Core 2 Duo T5250 Processor
2gb DDR2 Ram (2x1024mb)
120gb HD 5400rpm
ATI Radeon x1100 Graphics
128 tp 831mb shared video memory
DVD ReWriter Dual Layer
4 in 1 Card reader
56k Modem
intergrated audio
integrated 802.11g wireless LAN
integrated 10/100 LAN
4xUSB2 ports
Vista Home Premium
2 years ASUS Warranty honoured at shop were purchased
Looking forward to the weekend ;D
Sounds good, Den. Let us know how you get on. :)
Sounds good Den, Asus have a good reputation, so you should be OK.
Let us know when you have it up and running. ;)
Quote from: Den on Jan 03, 2008, 16:51:38
Here we go then, picking up the new laptop Friday ;D
Thanks for all your help this is how I landed.
Asus AP999 Notebook
Intel Core 2 Duo T5250 Processor
2gb DDR2 Ram (2x1024mb)
120gb HD 5400rpm
ATI Radeon x1100 Graphics
128 tp 831mb shared video memory
DVD ReWriter Dual Layer
4 in 1 Card reader
56k Modem
intergrated audio
integrated 802.11g wireless LAN
integrated 10/100 LAN
4xUSB2 ports
Vista Home Premium
2 years ASUS Warranty honoured at shop were purchased
Looking forward to the weekend ;D
Whats the CPU speed?
If you dont mind saying, but how much is that setting you back?
According to Intel (http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/chart/core2duo.htm), it's a 1.5GHz chip.
My specs are:-
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Premium
Processor : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7300 @ 2.00GHz
Bus Speed : 800 MHz
L2 Cache : 4 MB
System Memory : 2 GB
Hard Drive 1 : IMD-0, 512.86 MB
Hard Drive 2 : WDC WD2500BEVS-22UST0, 232.88 GB
CD/DVD Drive 1 : TOSHIBA DVDW/HD TS-L802A ATA Device
Video : NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GS
Total Available Graphics Memory : 1023 MB
Dedicated Video Memory : 256 MB
Audio : Realtek High Definition Audio
Ethernet Card 1 : Broadcom NetLink (TM) Gigabit Ethernet
Wireless LAN Card 1 : Intel(R) Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN
Also has surround sound
5 in 1 card reader
HD/HDMI Output
Cost: £699
Its definately the 2gb of ram in laptops that give them the extra oooomph ;D
i got a Dell Inspiron 1501 here
AMD Turion64 X2 TL-52 @ 1.6ghz
2gb of system ram
ATI xpress 1150 (graphics chips hardly make a difference in laptops i find - wish i cud have a 8800ultra in it though)
80gb hdd (dont really store much on it anyhoo)
Toshiba dvd-rw etc. drive
15" 1280x800 screen
Cant remember the audio chip, not too good, but works hooked up to some speakers
5 in 1 card reader...i dont use really :P
Got it for £560 i think in july last year
It came with vista home premium...i got XP pro on it now >:D >:D
Alas i fear the time where MS pushes us closer and closer to the Vista cliff is nearing
The Vista cliff although one we may not like is inherently safer than the xp one sadly and I think as I have mentioned before that is what counts in these times :-\ I would in the end rather have a safer OS than have av vendors struggle to keep up with protecting XP yes there are ways to help protect XP but for the causal person the OS needs to be the first place to start and Vista is good at that
the T5250 is the 1.66GHz and the total from the local shop for local people is £499 inc V.A.T.
OK Rik, So I read it wrong :o T5250 is the 1.5GHz. Turned it on, looks fantastic will play over weekend ;D
Quote from: Den on Jan 03, 2008, 20:27:19
the T5250 is the 1.66GHz and the total from the local shop for local people is £499 inc V.A.T.
How much do they charge us English Den..??...... :hehe: :hide2:
Double, after all this IS a local shop for local people Tubs >:D and there really is a place called Swansea.
OUCH !!... ;D
Not sure why they built that bridge in the first place Den, it makes it to easy for you lot to escape. ;)
How is the Lappy?
We don't have to go all the way down there to escape ;D I'm only about 7mile from Chester so I can escape when ever I want.
Very impressed with the laptop so far (and dare I say it, with Vista) first time I have even looked at Vista and it's been a pleasant experience after all the negative comments about it. :o But then it.s early days. The laptop came with Norton installed so I had down load the un-installer and then load AVG antivirus.
By the way I have never been to Swansea and only been to Cardiff twice, we are from North Wales so we have to obtain a passport. >:D
I'm glad it's going well, Den.
I can't believe how much better than my old laptop it is ;D
Think of it as the IDNet of laptops. :)
I have uninstalled Office 2007 demo and installed the full 2007 suite on it today. Runs very fast and still can not find anything that I do not like about Vista. Runs well and very easy to get used to, or am I missing something? ;D
If you're happy, and everything works for you, you're not missing anything Den. :)
Just find it strange that nobody seems to like it. Will carry on playing with it to find something wrong, and if I fail to find anything I will update my motherboard on my desktop and upgrade to Vista. Put it off up to now as my scanner will not work with Vista. :o
I always say that Vista is like Marmite, Den. ;) Lance uses it, so does Simon, so does Mo - and I'm sure I'm forgetting many others.
I've got to like using vista aswell, can be annoying sometimes thou with the UAC alerts..
Getting to like it more and more that i'm using my laptop more than my main computer :D
I have to say i was a little cautious before getting vista, but as soon as i started using it i started to like it more and more! I certainly find using xp a backwards step now. Plus it seems more secure, with quite a few bugs in programs only affecting the xp version.
I read this on another forum earlier today, it made me giggle.
Vista user having problems;
Reply from A.N.Other;
Ask your PC vendor if they will upgrade you to XP.. :hehe: :back:
I bought an XP to Vista upgrade disk for £11 when it became available for my Dell which was part of the deal when I bought the laptop over 12 months ago. I haven't got round to installing it yet as I want to reinstall XP first without the unwanted applications that Dell pre-installed but didn't want to be without a PC for too long and also not have access to the internet if I encountered problems.
However I'm looking at buying this for my youngest daughter maybe this evening (Wednesday) : Toshiba Laptop (http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/339848)
It may not the last word in performance but as she only needs to use Word and connect to the internet it's more than adequate for this. When I have access to another machine then I'll upgrade to Vista as my eldest daughters Laptop has it and it's been fine.
Shame it's PC World, John, but otherwise the spec is quite reasonable. It might be worth a quick look at somewhere like Misco, to see whether they can beat the price (remembering Quidco for an extra 5% on their prices).
I would agree with that Rik, if it was at a decent retailer it would be OK, PC World/Currys/Dixons ( all the same cowboy outfit) give me cold shudders.
Quote from: Inactive on Jan 09, 2008, 00:13:39
I would agree with that Rik, if it was at a decent retailer it would be OK, PC World/Currys/Dixons ( all the same cowboy outfit) give me cold shudders.
I know what you mean guys but I can't find it cheaper elsewhere, I won't be taking out any extended warranties from them and as long as it's the same machine as sold at other retailers boxed with 12 months warranty then I'll probably buy it. Might have a look in Costco first though.
Costco are a lot better at warranty issues.
They are Rik but I seem to remember their warranty on computers is more limited than other items. Something I'll check before I make a purchase.
I've just found it £10 cheaper at Pixmania but I know they deal in grey imports and the colour is different although the rest of the spec seems to be the same.
Quote from: john on Jan 09, 2008, 00:56:45
I've just found it £10 cheaper at Pixmania but I know they deal in grey imports and the colour is different although the rest of the spec seems to be the same.
Also same company as PC World/Dixons etc, based in France. ???
Did you look at Misco, John?
Or eBuyer? (http://www.ebuyer.com/search/?strSearch=&bolShowAll=true&intStoreID=5&intCatID=10&intSubcatUID=2114&intMfrID=26&bolShowAll=true)
Quote from: Inactive on Jan 09, 2008, 01:05:50
Also same company as PC World/Dixons etc, based in France. ???
Thanks In, I didn't know that.
Yes Rik and thanks for the link, I did look at Misco and e-buyer but couldn't find a similar machine for the same price. The link you post did have one for about £30 more with a slightly better processer but only 1Gb ram. Also they came with Vista Business but my daughter would want the Home Premium.
http://www.comet.co.uk/cometbrowse/product.do?sku=424552
HP laptop featuring Intel Pentium Dual Core Processor 1.46 GHz, 2GB RAM, 160GB storage, Windows Vista Home Premium and a 15.4" widescreen display.
£399.00
Save £200
I have a HP laptop and love it! Solid build quality and runs great. Recommended.
Quote from: Lance on Jan 09, 2008, 13:28:51
I have a HP laptop and love it! Solid build quality and runs great. Recommended.
I'm a HP and Acer fan.. Never had no probs with both makes and i mainly get my machines from comet..
If the delivery is late then you can contact them and they will refund you the delivery cost. I've done it twice. Once because there lorry broke down and the other was because there driver was sick and delayed all deliverys by 2 hours.
Quote from: psp83 on Jan 09, 2008, 13:26:28
http://www.comet.co.uk/cometbrowse/product.do?sku=424552
Check stock levels, none anywhere near me. ;)
Typical of Comet... ;)
Quote from: psp83 on Jan 09, 2008, 13:26:28
http://www.comet.co.uk/cometbrowse/product.do?sku=424552
HP laptop featuring Intel Pentium Dual Core Processor 1.46 GHz, 2GB RAM, 160GB storage, Windows Vista Home Premium and a 15.4" widescreen display.
£399.00
Save £200
Thanks psp83, it's another one worth considering, I've had a quick look and the specs look similar. I'll probably find that whatever I decide they'll be out of stock though !
Hi John, If you look earlier on the thread you will see that I have just bought a Asus laptop from a local dealer. I looked at the Toshiba from PC World and felt that the Asus was a better buy and the company have a great reputation. I paid £499 bought there was a very good laptop for £399. Have a look at asuslaptops.co.uk all their computers have 2 year cover. Also they do the laptops with XP or Vista so the choice is yours.
Thanks Den, I've had a quick look and they do have one with a similar spec, better processor but only !Gb RAM for about £450 to upgrade to 2Gb Ram pushes it up to £500 so I think the Toshiba from PC world or the HP from Comet still look to be the best deal at the moment if they're in stock. The other option if they are in stock is to ask John Lewis to price match them.
Quote from: john on Jan 09, 2008, 22:12:44
The other option if they are in stock is to ask John Lewis to price match them.
Good thinking John. ;)
Hi John.
Don't know if you've got one yet, but heres another to add to the list.
http://www.comet.co.uk/cometbrowse/product.do?sku=405140
NEW Acer laptop featuring Intel Core 2 Duo processor (1.66ghz), Windows Vista Home Premium, 2GB RAM, 120GB storage & 15.4" screen size.
£449.99
Thanks again psp83, I've not bought one yet, I went to Costco last night but they were all £600 plus.
The one you posted looks to be okay but I've not yet compared it with the one in the previous link that you sent.
Listening to colleagues at work it seems that PC World/Currys/Dixons quite often have very limited stocks of their special offer machines and I suspect it may be a ploy to persuade you to buy a more expensive one instead.
I've also seen a Dell with a similar spec and they at least can usually deliver what they advertise.
I never buy computer stuff from PC World/Currys/Dixons.. I've always had trouble with them..
Never had any problems with comet thou.. I've got a machine from there 6yrs ago.. Still got it downstairs, was fully rebuilt last year thou.. But the 5yrs i had it, never had one bit of trouble.
I know what you mean psp83, I'm really reluctant to buy from them myself. I've not really bought much from Comet but I'd buy from them in preference to PC world etc.
Having said that I imagine the stock is the same as elsewhere but it's the lack of service which gives them their reputation. Plus the fact that they try to persude you to take out expensive extended warranties.
I've just remembered a neighbour of mine bought a laptop last year from PC World and returned it for some reason. He then subsequently bought one from Comet and seemed happy with them.
Had my Asus laptop for 16 days now and am so impressed with it and amazingly love Vista as well.
Footnote to this is the situation with my older HP laptop. A number of times I had a re-sync on my router and suspected the power pack with the laptop. Since I unplugged it and set up my new one, no re-syncs at all. As of now it as gone for 16 days.
Another thing that has changed, with my old laptop could not get broadband in my lounge as it was to far from my office and through a thick wall. With the new laptop great signal in the lounge, so I can now work from anywhere in the house ;D
Sounds like a result, Den. You may be able to give the old laptop a new lease of life with a universal power supply from somewhere like Maplin.
Or tie a brick around it and place it in the River Dee >:D
I'm sure you could find a better home for it than that. :)
I have to say that my much newer HP laptop has a hreat wireless signal, and the power brick doesn't seem to give off any noise!
I agree with you about Vista. When I now use my XP machine, or my work machine, it seems so outdated!
Dell Vostro 1500
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T5470 (1.60 GHz, 800 MHz FSB, 2 MB L2-cache), Genuine Windows® XP Professional - English 3Gb ram, 160Gb HDU, 15.1" screen
Includes a free battery upgrade, free delivery and £70 discount
Available at £439.00 delivered from Dell http://ecomm.euro.dell.com/dellstore/basket.aspx?c=uk&cs=ukbsdt1&l=en&s=bsd&itemtype=CFG&oid=c0f089e4-e2a2-4f38-9ed1-7fed811fb39e
The link may time out
Only snag is it's Dell. I feel the same about them as I do about PC world. ;D
Surely they're not that bad, Den. :)
If you buy as a small business, then you get support from Glasgow and not India ;) The chaps that I speak to in Scotland as part of my job are very helpful and knowledgable
I always thought Dell were based in Ireland, Glenn?
They are made in Ireland but the Latitude support team are in Glasgow
Thanks, Glenn. So many companies have based their support operations in Ireland that I assumed Dell would have done too.
I wouldn't be concerned about buying a Dell. I know several people with them, admittedly low to mid spec models, but they have very few problems not caused by themselves.
I was just testing the water ;D :legpull:
Oh, do they float as well, Den? ;D
Ding Dong Dell has fallen down the Well ;D
Don't Panasonic do a ruggedised laptop which floats?
Have you seen the price and spec of them?
Not cheap, are they. :(