IDNetters Forums

Technical News & Discussion => IDNet Help => Topic started by: Simon on Sep 20, 2007, 09:45:55

Title: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 20, 2007, 09:45:55
Well, I couldn't help but be impressed to find that my transfer was completed when I got up this morning, and I am now a fully fledged member of IDNet!

Well done guys, and thanks for a smooth migration.  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/thumb.gif)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 20, 2007, 09:46:58
Congratulations, have a karma. :) How's the speed?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Lance on Sep 20, 2007, 09:48:08
Congrats Simon!
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 20, 2007, 09:51:25
Congratulations Simon and welcome aboard  ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: cavillas on Sep 20, 2007, 09:54:10
Welcome to Nirvana. ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Ray on Sep 20, 2007, 11:46:54
 Simon (http://www.v-rodforums.com/forums/images/smilies/welcome.gif) to Idnet glad you have finally arrived - enjoy!
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 20, 2007, 12:02:11
At work at the moment.  Will be back later for more of a play.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: MoHux on Sep 20, 2007, 12:50:10
Now you really ARE an IDNutter!  err, Netter!!  ;D

Welcome Simon  :thup: :beer1: :banana2:
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 20, 2007, 12:51:25
You can't remove Simon's nuts, Mo, we don't have any anaesthetic.  >:D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: MoHux on Sep 20, 2007, 13:02:02
Showing off again I see ........... letting us know you can spell anas ... annae .... err cloro ...... chl ..... Aw Nuts!! (pun intended  ;D)

;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 20, 2007, 13:04:38
Not me, Mo, my dictionary. :)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: cavillas on Sep 20, 2007, 14:04:19
Didn't know you could afford one Rik. ;D :out:
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 20, 2007, 14:16:15
It came with the Age Concern parcel, Alf. ;)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 20, 2007, 18:44:00
Thanks for the welcome everyone!  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/thumb.gif)

Rik, this is the BT Speedtest result:

IP profile for your line is - 4000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4672 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2439 kbps

Not sure how good that is.  I think my profile was 3500 with Poopex.  I have to say, it doesn't seem to be much faster, in fact it seems slightly slow here at the moment.  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/dunno.gif)

Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 20, 2007, 19:00:05
Hi Simon your throughput looks a little low , or that may be me I would like to see Rik or Lances view, you are in your ten day training period remember so things will change, those speeds are good considering your last ISP stats. Mine read.

    IP profile for your line is - 4500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  5376 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4223 kbps
and that's on a line that was meant to have 3000kbs tops so let your training period continue and see how it goes.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 20, 2007, 19:14:05
Hi Gary,

Am I in a 10 day training period?  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/dunno.gif)  I asked this question before, and I thought I understood that IDNet don't automatically retrain the line, but would happily be corrected.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Lance on Sep 20, 2007, 19:17:41
Whilst I agree with you Gary about the thoughput being low, I don't agree that Simon is in his training period. The vast majority of connections, as long as it is a Max to Max migration, do not require another training period.

Simon is currently towards the lower end of the 4000kbps profile range, and if he re-syncs when there is more noise on the line it is quite possible he will drop into the top end of the 3500kbps profile. Sync speeds are determined on the actual line so you wouldn't really expect a significant change from ISP to ISP.

What would be good is to see Simon's line stats (ie noise margin and attenuation)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 20, 2007, 19:35:26
Quote from: Lance on Sep 20, 2007, 19:17:41
Whilst I agree with you Gary about the thoughput being low, I don't agree that Simon is in his training period. The vast majority of connections, as long as it is a Max to Max migration, do not require another training period.

Simon is currently towards the lower end of the 4000kbps profile range, and if he re-syncs when there is more noise on the line it is quite possible he will drop into the top end of the 3500kbps profile. Sync speeds are determined on the actual line so you wouldn't really expect a significant change from ISP to ISP.

What would be good is to see Simon's line stats (ie noise margin and attenuation)
It is indeed probable that his training period would not be happening as long there was no loss of sync when he changed over, I had forgot that max to max does not always need re-training, but I agree that seeing his noise margin and line stats would be good, mine are snr 8db  attenuation of 49db Downstream, now with Orange I would not get much over 3500kbs before my line dropped at 6pm every night so for me there was quiet a difference, maybe BT did a better job this time round of connecting me Lance ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 20, 2007, 19:47:36
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 20, 2007, 19:14:05
Hi Gary,

Am I in a 10 day training period?  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/dunno.gif)  I asked this question before, and I thought I understood that IDNet don't automatically retrain the line, but would happily be corrected.
Sorry about that Simon you don't retrain generally when you swap unless there was a loss of sync, I just did some reading up on that  ::) as Lance says line stats would be good though.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 20, 2007, 20:37:33
Is this what you're looking for?

ADSL Link                Downstream       Upstream
Connection Speed    4672 kbps          448 kbps
Line Attenuation      34 db                9.5 db
Noise Margin            11 db                20 db
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 21, 2007, 00:17:08
My hunch, Simon, is that you've had a low sync event along the way, as your noise margin is high. That said, for your profile, you're not getting the throughput I would expect. What settings are you using for RWIN & MTU?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 21, 2007, 06:51:47
Quote from: Rik on Sep 21, 2007, 00:17:08
My hunch, Simon, is that you've had a low sync event along the way, as your noise margin is high. That said, for your profile, you're not getting the throughput I would expect. What settings are you using for RWIN & MTU?
Rik if Simon has had a low sync even on his migration would that possibly re-start his training period, having done to much reading for my own good some ISP's suggest this can happen when you are swapped over with loss or sync events and for my own clarification does IDNet do this, that's why I wondered about a training period starting up again with his profile results, all helps to get the bigger picture for future reference  ;D God its early  :( oh and Morning people  :coffee:
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: colirv on Sep 21, 2007, 08:08:33
An actual speed of 2439 for a profile of 4000 is not very good, but equally it may not be a very good measurement - speed testers can give very variable results!

Having said that, I have a profile of 2500 and generally achieve speeds of 700 - 1400 depending on time of day. IDNet have investigated with BT and say it is exchange congestion. Really there's nothing to be done until the exchange is upgraded.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 09:49:31
Quote from: Rik on Sep 21, 2007, 00:17:08
My hunch, Simon, is that you've had a low sync event along the way, as your noise margin is high. That said, for your profile, you're not getting the throughput I would expect. What settings are you using for RWIN & MTU?

Same as I posted in my "Questions..." thread form when I first joined, Rik.  I have to dash now, so I'll come back to you later on this one.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 09:50:41
Quote from: Killhippie on Sep 21, 2007, 06:51:47
Rik if Simon has had a low sync even on his migration would that possibly re-start his training period, having done to much reading for my own good some ISP's suggest this can happen when you are swapped over with loss or sync events and for my own clarification does IDNet do this, that's why I wondered about a training period starting up again with his profile results, all helps to get the bigger picture for future reference  ;D God its early  :( oh and Morning people  :coffee:

How do we get the line retrained?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 21, 2007, 09:51:54
Quote from: Killhippie on Sep 21, 2007, 06:51:47
Rik if Simon has had a low sync even on his migration would that possibly re-start his training period

It shouldn't do, Gary. OTOH, it can cause the profile to drop. Visits by ADSL engineers often have the same effect as, every time they change something, it appears to the DLM software like a re-sync.

Quotehaving done to much reading for my own good some ISP's suggest this can happen when you are swapped over with loss or sync events and for my own clarification does IDNet do this

Afaik, an ISP has to specifically request that a training period is re-started, either on migration or at some other time. It's not normally done without a reason. I know that I did not re-train on my own migration.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 21, 2007, 09:54:09
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 21, 2007, 09:50:41
How do we get the line retrained?

Give support a ring, Simon, but first make sure everything is fine at your end in terms of MTU/RWIN settings and wiring. Your throughput is lower than it should be for your profile, so that needs to be resolved before you start a re-train. If the issue is exchange congestion, then a re-train would not help.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 21, 2007, 10:31:24
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 21, 2007, 09:50:41
How do we get the line retrained?
Do all that Rik has suggested about your RWIN & MTU Simon, also make sure you check your wiring from the BT master socket, things like power cables, cheap filters and using poorly shielded cable to your router can all make a huge difference, I use a filtered face plate from Adsl nation http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=3306
you can use this if you have a BT NTE5 Master socket, try to use cat 5 cable if you have it as well, and don't have lightning protectors on the line either they produce more noise than protection you could also try unplugging your router for 30mins although Rik or Lance will know a faster way to do this by changing the DNS address briefly, once you have your side in order and you know its all ok do as Rik suggested and contact Support.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 21, 2007, 11:30:46
Simon the trick instead of pulling your routers power is change your username to speedtest@speedtest_domain that usually does the trick it appears as it forces a refresh at the radius servers. Hope all this helps you to get up to speed in no time  ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 12:35:34
Thanks guys, looks like a busy evening for me!
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 19:02:00
Quote from: Rik on Sep 21, 2007, 00:17:08
My hunch, Simon, is that you've had a low sync event along the way, as your noise margin is high. That said, for your profile, you're not getting the throughput I would expect. What settings are you using for RWIN & MTU?

Here are my RWIN & MTU settings:

(http://si6776.www.idnet.com/drtcp.png)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 19:13:17
I did the logging into speedtest@speedtest_domain thing, and my noise margin seems to have decreased:

ADSL Link               Downstream     Upstream
Connection Speed   4672 kbps        448 kbps
Line Attenuation     34 db               9.5 db
Noise Margin           4 db                20 db
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 19:17:45
...and the BT speedtest results:

IP profile for your line is - 4000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4672 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2748 kbps
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Lance on Sep 21, 2007, 19:34:41
I think I would try upping the MTU to 1500 and then adjust the RWIN accordingly. To me that looks the reason for your low throughput.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 20:18:21
I honestly haven't got a clue about MTU and RWIN, Lance.  What should my RWIN be if I up the MTU to 1500?  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/dunno.gif)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Lance on Sep 21, 2007, 20:31:18
If you download TCP optimiser from here http://www.speedguide.net/downloads.php it should automatically detect the best MTU & RWIN for your line. Just make sure you have the correct network adapter selected in the program prior to making changes.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 20:56:03
OK, I must be being really thick, but I've somehow made it worse!

IP profile for your line is - 4000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4512 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1876 kbps

With that TCP Optimiser, what speed should I adjust the slider to? 

(http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/hammer.gif)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Lance on Sep 21, 2007, 21:05:21
I would set it to 4000 to match your profile. What have the figures changed to?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 21:11:42
As above, Lance.  :)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Lance on Sep 21, 2007, 21:19:08
So your MTU and RWIN haven't changed?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 22:10:49
Sorry Lance, misunderstood.  I have now reverted back to the settings I posted originally, but my profile has now dropped, as has the throughput.  I'm beginning to wish I'd left things as they were.  :(

IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4256 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1581 kbps
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: MoHux on Sep 21, 2007, 23:00:55
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 21, 2007, 20:18:21
I honestly haven't got a clue about MTU and RWIN, Lance.  What should my RWIN be if I up the MTU to 1500?  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/dunno.gif)

Either 134320 or 268640 Simon.

If you use DRTCP to change it, don't forget to restart the computer after saving, or it loses the settings.

All that assumes you are using XP.  In Vista, Windows takes care of RWin and MTU dynamically for the computer.  Just make sure the router lets all packet sizes through, by setting it's  MTU to the max' 1500.
 
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 23:13:46
Thanks Mo, but seeing as every other setting seems to make things worse, I have now reverted to default Windows settings, however, I still can't achieve the 4000 kbps profile that I had before I started fiddling.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: MoHux on Sep 21, 2007, 23:16:04
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 21, 2007, 23:13:46
Thanks Mo, but seeing as every other setting seems to make things worse, I have now reverted to default Windows settings, however, I still can't achieve the 4000 kbps profile that I had before I started fiddling.

C'mon Si' where's yer sense of adventure!?   ;) ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Lance on Sep 21, 2007, 23:41:27
The profile is unaffected by any of the settings you have changed. The reason it has dropped is because your sync has dropped lower. This is because of noise on your line, have you tried removing your ring wire? I can't remember!

I wonder if throughput is low because of congestion at your exchange.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 23:54:49
Quote from: Lance on Sep 21, 2007, 23:41:27
The profile is unaffected by any of the settings you have changed. The reason it has dropped is because your sync has dropped lower. This is because of noise on your line, have you tried removing your ring wire? I can't remember!

I wonder if throughput is low because of congestion at your exchange.

Ring wire??  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/dunno.gif)  Too technical for me, Lance.  Pushing buttons is fine, but as far as 'hands on' stuff goes, it's as much as I can do to wire a plug.  ;D

All I can definitely say is that since I changed the settings, I haven't achieved anywhere near the speed I was getting before changing the settings, and even when I restored them to how it was, I'm still getting lower readings.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 21, 2007, 23:55:28
Quote from: MoHux on Sep 21, 2007, 23:16:04
C'mon Si' where's yer sense of adventure!?   ;) ;D

I left it with Pipex, Mo!  ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Lance on Sep 22, 2007, 00:04:59
Have a read of the faq, simon, about internal wiring. Removing the ring wire is even easier than wiring a plug!
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 00:07:36
At this time of night Simon you will have more potential for noise on your line, lstreet lighting even temperature can effect cable runs, I would suggest tomorrow you unplug your router for 30 mins maybe late morning and leave it off for 30mins maybe slightly over then power your router back up (do this with your pc off as there is not much point having it on with no line connection) then leave it over the weekend to see what your line stats do. Can I ask what security software you use? and do you use p2p software? I'm wondering like lance if you have a congested exchange but wanted to know if you have anything running that would be using up bandwidth when you ran your test  :)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 00:10:19
Quote from: Lance on Sep 22, 2007, 00:04:59
Have a read of the faq, simon, about internal wiring. Removing the ring wire is even easier than wiring a plug!
It is quite easy Simon and can make a big difference to noise as Lance says http://yarwell.blogspot.com/2005/08/adsl-tweaking.html
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 00:31:17
Gary, I use F-Secure Internet Security, and have no P2P applications running at this time.  I already have an ADSL faceplace in the lounge, where the PC is connected, and there is one other phone connected via a microfilter in the bedroom.  Not sure about this ring wire thing - would it really make that much of a noticeable difference?  Can't say I'm very keen on tinkering with the phone wires.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 00:37:53
Dumping the ringwire can add a few db to your noise margin, Simon, which translates as a higher sync speed. I'm curious, thought, if you've got a filtered face plate, why do you need to use additional filters, or is that socket not the master?

Getting rid of the wire is as simple as removing two screws from the socket, then gently pulling out the wire from terminal three (often orange/white). It's almost impossible to do any harm in the process.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 00:48:48
OK, I think I may have another issue now.  I have just received a bandwidth notification email from IDNet, stating that, "Over the time period 20/9/2007 to 21/9/2007 (1 day) you have downloaded 1.05 GB of data."  Unless it's all the speed tests I've been doing, I can't see how this could be possible, as I have only been surfing (mainly here) in the evenings.  I'm wondering if someone could be tapping into my wireless connection, although, as far as I know, I have set it up securely, or am I just being paranoid?

Quote from: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 00:37:53
Dumping the ringwire can add a few db to your noise margin, Simon, which translates as a higher sync speed. I'm curious, thought, if you've got a filtered face plate, why do you need to use additional filters, or is that socket not the master?

Getting rid of the wire is as simple as removing two screws from the socket, then gently pulling out the wire from terminal three (often orange/white). It's almost impossible to do any harm in the process.

Umm... so if I have a faceplate where the PC is connected, are you saying I don't need filters on other phones in the property, where there are no faceplates?  Hell, this is turning into a steep learning curve!
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 00:55:38
Hi Simon

There's several possibilities on the bandwidth. One is that it's simply extrapolating from a small sample - but that usually only applies to the predicted bandwidth. Another is that there is an error, which can often be cured by logging out and back in (no need to drop the sync, just the PPP session) - this forces the radius servers to update. About half an hour, but up to two hours, after doing this, check your bandwidth again on your accounts page. There may be an error, have a word with support on Monday and they can see what has been going on. Finally, it is possible that your connection has been piggy-backed - do you use WPA with a strong key, 63 characters+?

Filtered face plates are normally fitted in place of the normal NTE5 master socket. If yours is wired in that way, then all extensions running from it are pre-filtered. You should be able to see if you remove the face plate, it will have the connections for any extensions attached to the detachable part.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 01:13:50
Hi Rik,

If by logging out and back in, you mean just disconnecting and reconnecting, or rebooting the router, I have done that several times tonight, after tweaking the MTU / RWIN settings.  I'll check it again in the morning.  As far as being piggy-backed, I am using WPA, but with only about a 20 character key.  Perhaps I should increase this?  I do find this theory difficult to believe though, especially as the router was powered off all of last night.

Re the faceplate, I don't think it's fitted on the master socket, as that isn't accessible to the PC.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 01:21:55
Hi Simon

I don't mean re-booting, and re-booting frequently is likely to depress your profile as the BT software will see it as a sign of instability, which could explain the drop you have seen. Leave the router at 1500 MTU and make all your adjustments in Windows, then you only need to re-boot the computer.

I would recommend increasing your key length, but you're probably not being hijacked - talk to support on Monday if it hasn't settled.

If the faceplate is not at the master socket, then you need to keep the filters on other sockets, and you will benefit from disconnecting the ring wire.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 12:07:39
Still no better this morning - worse, in fact.  :(

IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4608 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 878 kbps

I would be happy now, just to get back to where I was yesterday.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:13:54
Your should have a 4000 profile for that sync, Simon, so I'd suggest leaving well alone for the moment, and let your line recover. Remember that frequent re-syncs will always push your profile down, so don't re-boot the router unless you need to.

Your thoughput, though, is way lower than your profile. That could be exchange congestion or server load. Try using:

http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/

and see what results you get there.

What MTU/RWIN are you currently using?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 12:18:16
Currently using 1500 MTU and 256960 RWIN, Rik, but am thinking of reverting to what it was before.

I'll try the bbmax speed test.

Also, as to the bandwidth issue, I have Net Meter (http://www.metal-machine.de/readerror/), and this shows a huge surge after I have used the BT Speedtester, which only stops when I close my browser.  I think that's where the extra usage came from yesterday, but not sure why this is.

I also noticed that on 4th Sept (before I migrated), my Uploads were over 6Gb, and this is also inexplicable, and slightly worrying, as that was very much higher than normal.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 12:21:22
Here's the bbmax test results:


Date of Speed Test:    2007-09-22 12:20:34
Download Speed:    16843 kbps (2105.4 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed:    350 kbps (43.8 KB/sec transfer rate)

http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=1190460034&v=2338005
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:25:02
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 22, 2007, 12:18:16
Currently using 1500 MTU and 256960 RWIN, Rik, but am thinking of reverting to what it was before.

That works well for me. Go here:

http://www.speedguide.net/

and try the TCP Analyzer, see what that suggests. Some people get their best results with an MTU of 1458, and RWIN adjusted accordingly.

QuoteAlso, as to the bandwidth issue, I have Net Meter (http://www.metal-machine.de/readerror/), and this shows a huge surge after I have used the BT Speedtester, which only stops when I close my browser.  I think that's where the extra usage came from yesterday, but not sure why this is.

I also noticed that on 4th Sept (before I migrated), my Uploads were over 6Gb, and this is also inexplicable, and slightly worrying, as that was very much higher than normal.

6GB upload is worrying - it would take a long time, for a start, so you should have noticed it going on. Have you run a full virus and malware scan?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:28:58
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 22, 2007, 12:21:22
Here's the bbmax test results:

http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=1190460034&v=2338005


Something very odd there, you can't get that speed on your profile. What else is running on your machine?

Here's my test:

http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=1190460430&v=2338054

That's on a 2500 profile, so it's pretty much spot on.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 12:29:27
Rik, it's the RWIN adjusted accordingly bit I don't get.  What is 'adjusting accordingly'?

Quote6GB upload is worrying - it would take a long time, for a start, so you should have noticed it going on. Have you run a full virus and malware scan?

Yes, I ran a full virus and malware scan just last week.  Nothing reported, but will try a separate spyware scanner, just in case.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:32:02
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 22, 2007, 12:29:27
Rik, it's the RWIN adjusted accordingly bit I don't get.  What is 'adjusting accordingly'?

RWIN should be a multiple of MSS, which is MTU-40, powers of 2 work best - the Speedguide.net site I linked to will recommend a figure for you.

QuoteYes, I ran a full virus and malware scan just last week.  Nothing reported, but will try a separate spyware scanner, just in case.

Have you noticed any upload activity when you've not been active?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 12:33:27
Quote from: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:28:58
Something very odd there, you can't get that speed on your profile.

The bbmax test has always been astonishingly inaccurate when I run it, on Pipex as well.

QuoteWhat else is running on your machine?

Like what?  There's no P2P running, all I have on at the moment is the F-Secure suite, and Sea Monkey.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 12:35:11
Quote from: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:32:02
RWIN should be a multiple of MSS, which is MTU-40, powers of 2 work best - the Speedguide.net site I linked to will recommend a figure for you.

It's all double-dutch to me, but I'll try it.

QuoteHave you noticed any upload activity when you've not been active?

Not that I can recall.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:36:47
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 22, 2007, 12:33:27
The bbmax test has always been astonishingly inaccurate when I run it, on Pipex as well.

It's always been pretty good for me - just goes to show how speed tests are not worth too much effort. Can you find a decent-size file to download, eg a Linux distro. That will give you a true reflection. (Or download the trial of Thumbs Plus from www.cerious.com, their server is generally pretty fast.)

QuoteLike what?  There's no P2P running, all I have on at the moment is the F-Secure suite, and Sea Monkey.

Like anything which might be doing background work on the net - any video players, eg the BBC one? Have a look in task manager for anything which you don't recognise or which is using processor cycles.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 12:37:34
Oh, hang on a minute, the 4th Sept was the day I got my laptop, and I was transferring lots of files and stuff.  Would that have counted as 'uploads'?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:38:24
Probably, most monitors just look at the LAN connection, so count both local and WAN traffic.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 12:42:19
Simon what do you use for antispyware? is it just the F-secure suite, if so what version, just wondering if that could cause a throughput issue :-\
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 12:47:21
Quote from: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:38:24
Probably, most monitors just look at the LAN connection, so count both local and WAN traffic.

That would explain it then - phew!  ;D

Quote from: Killhippie on Sep 22, 2007, 12:42:19
Simon what do you use for antispyware? is it just the F-secure suite, if so what version, just wondering if that could cause a throughput issue :-\

Hi Gary,

I also have Spyware Blaster running, but other than that, just FSIS, but I do have other spyware scanners on board for on-demand scans, such as AVG and Super AntiSpyware.

There's nothing suspicious in the Task Manager Processes list, and nothing unidentified in my start up programs either, so I don't think this is a spyware / malware issue.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 12:49:38
Does your version of F-secure have the blacklight rootkit scanner? also is your superantispyware the free version or the paid for which has active protection?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 12:50:49
I know you said on demand but just checking thats all Simon
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:52:35
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 22, 2007, 12:47:21
That would explain it then - phew!  ;D

But not the message from IDNet. Have you had a look at your accounts page > BB usage there?

QuoteThere's nothing suspicious in the Task Manager Processes list, and nothing unidentified in my start up programs either, so I don't think this is a spyware / malware issue.

Is there anything eating processor cycles or do you see network activity when the machine is just idling?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 12:58:53
Quote from: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:52:35
But not the message from IDNet. Have you had a look at your accounts page > BB usage there?

That would also worry me a little my usage varies but I migrated 21 days ago and have not receaved a message like that from IDNet, if someone were to be piggy backing your wifi also that would explain that message and throughput maybe, what do you think Rik? I have a complex network name use wpa2 with a complex password hide my network name and use mac filtering, some of these can be over come but it makes it a lot harder to use your wifi.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 13:01:16
Quote from: Killhippie on Sep 22, 2007, 12:49:38
Does your version of F-secure have the blacklight rootkit scanner? also is your superantispyware the free version or the paid for which has active protection?

Yes, FSIS has the blacklight rootkit scanner, and SAS is the free version (not active protection).
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 13:03:16
Quote from: Killhippie on Sep 22, 2007, 12:58:53
I have a complex network name use wpa2 with a complex password hide my network name and use mac filtering, some of these can be over come but it makes it a lot harder to use your wifi.

I don't bother with MAC filtering (we re-use too many acronyms in this game :) as it's so easy to bypass. I do change the network name, use WPA with a complex key and always, but always, change the router login password.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 13:06:23
Quote from: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 13:03:16
I don't bother with MAC filtering (we re-use too many acronyms in this game :) as it's so easy to bypass. I do change the network name, use WPA with a complex key and always, but always, change the router login password.
I agree first thing to change, when I'm out and about (rarely) if I do a wifi search from my phone the number of networks called netgear which are not secure is scary, and you just know the password is unchanged as well
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 13:07:52
Quote from: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 12:52:35
But not the message from IDNet. Have you had a look at your accounts page > BB usage there?

Yes it says the same, and I think it's probably correct, because, as I said, the BT Speedtester seems to cause a massive activity surge, which I have to close my browser to stop.  If I hadn't noticed this yesterday, it would explain the high bandwidth usage, especially as I used the tester about 10 times!

QuoteIs there anything eating processor cycles or do you see network activity when the machine is just idling?

No, nothing.

Quote from: Killhippie on Sep 22, 2007, 12:58:53
That would also worry me a little my usage varies but I migrated 21 days ago and have not receaved a message like that from IDNet, if someone were to be piggy backing your wifi also that would explain that message and throughput maybe, what do you think Rik? I have a complex network name use wpa2 with a complex password hide my network name and use mac filtering, some of these can be over come but it makes it a lot harder to use your wifi.

I'll have another look at the router settings.  I now have a 63 character WPA key, so that should help, if there is anything going on.  How do you hide your computer name?




Edit: Markup sorted
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 13:08:01
Quote from: Killhippie on Sep 22, 2007, 13:06:23
the number of networks called netgear which are not secure is scary, and you just know the password unchanged as well

I can pick up two here, and just walk into the router... Crazy.  :eek4:
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 13:10:00
My router password is not the default one, and I can see at least three other networks on my laptop.  Does that mean they can see me?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 13:10:40
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 22, 2007, 13:01:16
Yes, FSIS has the blacklight rootkit scanner, and SAS is the free version (not active protection).
When did you last do a scan Simon? with F-secure, I have never used it but do you have to enable rootkit scanning as well? If you have not done one in the last few days it would be worth it, sorry if you have its just this thread is getting very long to scan now :)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 13:10:59
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 22, 2007, 13:07:52
Yes it says the same, and I think it's probably correct, because, as I said, the BT Speedtester seems to cause a massive activity surge, which I have to close my browser to stop.  If I hadn't noticed this yesterday, it would explain the high bandwidth usage, especially as I used the tester about 10 times!

Odd, I've never seen the BT test do that. :(

QuoteI'll have another look at the router settings.  I now have a 63 character WPA key, so that should help, if there is anything going on.  How do you hide your computer name?

You don't need to. Just change the SSID in the router to something which you recognise but won't make a lot of sense to others. It's about hiding the make of the router as much as anything.



Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 13:12:30
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 22, 2007, 13:10:00
My router password is not the default one, and I can see at least three other networks on my laptop.  Does that mean they can see me?

If you can see them, the chances are they can see you. It doesn't matter providing (a) you're not suffering from interference and (b) you're well secured.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 13:13:35
You don't need to. Just change the SSID in the router to something which you recognise but won't make a lot of sense to others. It's about hiding the make of the router as much as anything.


That is true if they can see the make that gives them more information than you want them to have.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 13:15:20
Quote from: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 13:10:59
Odd, I've never seen the BT test do that. :(

Well, it obviously doesn't like me then!  ;)

QuoteYou don't need to. Just change the SSID in the router to something which you recognise but won't make a lot of sense to others. It's about hiding the make of the router as much as anything.

Yes, the SSID is changed form the default, but what about the option to broadcast it?  Should that be allowed or disallowed?

Guys, I have to pop out for a bit now, but will be back an half an hour or so.

Thanks for all the help!
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 13:18:36
I don't broadcast my network, if someone wants to do a quick sweep at least they wont see me, or course if they are determined all things can be got around.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 13:43:51
I do broadcast SSID, Simon. If people want to sniff me out, they will anyway. By broadcasting, it makes it easier for others to avoid interference. You'll find opinion is pretty much split on this topic though. :)

What everyone will agree on is:

1)  Change the SSID so as not to identify the make of router (anyone else find they now type idnetify? :))

2)  Change the default password to log in to the router

3)  Use WPA or WPA2 and use a strong key of 63+ characters.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 14:23:37
I agree with Rik entirely on his comments above, I hide mine because there are no other networks around within reach (small village in the sticks) so I'm happy not broadcasting.
What I would like Simon is for you to connect your laptop to your router via Ethernet please, and do your your BT Speedtest again so we can remove wifi problems from the equation with your throughput  :)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 16:35:04
Quote from: Killhippie on Sep 22, 2007, 14:23:37
What I would like Simon is for you to connect your laptop to your router via Ethernet please, and do your your BT Speedtest again so we can remove wifi problems from the equation with your throughput  :)

OK, I can do that this evening, Gary, but perhaps I should point out that I haven't been using wifi throughout this whole testing period, and that I have been using my main PC, which is connected by Ethernet anyway.  Therefore, would connecting the laptop via Ethernet make any difference?

As far as wifi security goes, I can see three other networks, when I connect via wifi with my laptop, but presumably these would all be in close proximity, i.e. fairly close neighbours?  Without wishing to appear snobbish, the area I live in is not the type of area where I would expect a neighbour to try to 'steal' my connection, so I really think, after finding reasonably plausible (if rather strange in the BT Speedtester case) explanations for the bandwith usage, we can eliminate piggy backing from the situation.  I have all the security criteria Rik listed above in place, so I'm not too worried about that side of things now.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 16:59:40
Ok I just wanted to see what a different machine would show as throughput Simon, and was not sure if you were using wifi on your laptop for tests, if your throughput is the same on both machines we can say leave your line till Monday and see what IDNet say, also the ringwire does make quite a difference, I did mine and it took two minutes, undo the two screws from your faceplate lift it forward and remove the wire orange and white from terminal three and thats it, and it does help. Sorry you having such a bad time, but if we eliminate machine issues we know where we stand  ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 17:14:00
Well, it's not that I'm having a bad time, Gary.  If I hadn't seen the figures, before and after altering the TCP settings, I would have been none the wiser, and would have thought I had a good connection.  I'm also not sure how much to believe the test results, seeing as they seem to vary so vastly from one to the other.

If I remove the ring wire, how easy is it to replace again?  I thought you needed a special tool for connecting phone wires, which I don't have.  Also, this might seem a stupid question, but won't it stop my phones ringing?

I'm not going to fiddle about any more tonight, and I am out for most of the day tomorrow, so any further investigations will have to wait until Monday now.  I'm not even sure I have a case for IDNet to answer, as the readings vary so much from tester to tester.

Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 17:19:07
Oh, and another stupid thing now (you can tell I'm losing patience with this!), the 63 character key I put into the router keeps being shortened for some reason, and then the laptop won't connect because the key is wrong!  Bloody computers!!  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/brickwall.gif)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 17:23:58
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 22, 2007, 17:14:00
Well, it's not that I'm having a bad time, Gary.  If I hadn't seen the figures, before and after altering the TCP settings, I would have been none the wiser, and would have thought I had a good connection.  I'm also not sure how much to believe the test results, seeing as they seem to vary so vastly from one to the other.

Tests all use some method if simulation to determine speed. The best test is a large file and a stop watch, see my earlier suggestions.

QuoteIf I remove the ring wire, how easy is it to replace again?  I thought you needed a special tool for connecting phone wires, which I don't have.  Also, this might seem a stupid question, but won't it stop my phones ringing?

You would need an IDC tool, a disposable one will cost you about 99p, but there is no reason to ever put the wire back - modern phones don't need it and the microfilter generates the ring current anyway. Just remember to remove the wire on terminal three, don't rely on the colour scheme.

QuoteI'm not even sure I have a case for IDNet to answer, as the readings vary so much from tester to tester.

I think your line will settle over the next few days, providing you maintain sync. There's often some loss during migration because of the disconnections which can occur at the exchange.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 17:25:42
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 22, 2007, 17:19:07
Oh, and another stupid thing now (you can tell I'm losing patience with this!), the 63 character key I put into the router keeps being shortened for some reason, and then the laptop won't connect because the key is wrong!  Bloody computers!!  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/brickwall.gif)

What router? The display is usually truncated, but it should accept the key OK. You do need to make the setting from a wired connection, not from the wireless one, but I'm guessing you've been doing that. What I recommend is that you create a Notepad file with the key, and cut'n'paste it from there to the router and lappy.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 17:29:54
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 22, 2007, 17:14:00
Well, it's not that I'm having a bad time, Gary.  If I hadn't seen the figures, before and after altering the TCP settings, I would have been none the wiser, and would have thought I had a good connection.  I'm also not sure how much to believe the test results, seeing as they seem to vary so vastly from one to the other.

If I remove the ring wire, how easy is it to replace again?  I thought you needed a special tool for connecting phone wires, which I don't have.  Also, this might seem a stupid question, but won't it stop my phones ringing?

I'm not going to fiddle about any more tonight, and I am out for most of the day tomorrow, so any further investigations will have to wait until Monday now.  I'm not even sure I have a case for IDNet to answer, as the readings vary so much from tester to tester.


No it wont stop your phone ringing SI and you dont need to put it back either see here http://yarwell.blogspot.com/2005/08/adsl-tweaking.html and this will,explain it, its a very simple issue honestly, I think maybe stepping away for now would be a good idea as it can get a bit frustrating going in circles, I'm sure Rik will talk about this issue to IDNet on monday, anyway since you have had such issues, look at the link in this post and you will get the idea of the ring wire trick Simon, have a good weekend leaving your line to stabilise will help now as well and it should eventually start to pick up from all the sync events just a question what router are you using? as i said this post is so big now its hard to scan over. Hope all goes well and yes computers sometimes do make you want to scream  ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 19:02:27
Quote from: Rik on Sep 22, 2007, 17:25:42
What router? The display is usually truncated, but it should accept the key OK. You do need to make the setting from a wired connection, not from the wireless one, but I'm guessing you've been doing that. What I recommend is that you create a Notepad file with the key, and cut'n'paste it from there to the router and lappy.

Netgear DG834G, Rik.  I have been doing exactly as you suggested, copying and pasting the 63 character key, with WPA-PSK selected, and a box stating that an 8-63 character key can be used.  I paste in the 63 character key, click Apply, then when I log into the router again, it's changed to a 27 character key, so I guess that's what it will have to be.

As I said, this is doing my head in now, so as Gary sensibly suggested, I'm not messing about any more till Monday.

The reason I don't think this is an issue with IDNet is that the speed and throughput was much the same on Pipex, as I have posted somewhere on the forums, but can't remember where now.  Obviously though, if they can do anything to help, it would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 19:10:36
OK, the password issue now seems to be resolved, by changing some of the characters.  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/dunno.gif)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 22, 2007, 22:18:04
Glad that's working Simon, have a good weekend and lets see how your line is on Monday,  ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 22, 2007, 23:16:32
Indeed!  Thanks for all your help and patience, guys!  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/thumb.gif)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 23, 2007, 10:08:41
Just wait till we start debating the merits of different types of key.  >:D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 23, 2007, 10:31:39
As I said, I'm not going to fiddle about with this today, but I have just one more question, and that is, should the router MTU be set the same as the MTU on the computer?
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 23, 2007, 10:37:44
No, leave the router at 1500, Simon. You can play with the Windows figure to your heart's content and you don't need to re-boot the router.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 23, 2007, 10:51:32
I think the router is / was on 1492.
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: cavillas on Sep 23, 2007, 10:52:20
Quote from: Rik on Sep 23, 2007, 10:08:41
Just wait till we start debating the merits of different types of key.  >:D

I prefer Yale keys. :)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 23, 2007, 10:53:06
I'm a Chubb(y) man myself, Alf. :)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Rik on Sep 23, 2007, 10:53:39
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 23, 2007, 10:51:32
I think the router is / was on 1492.

Leave it at that if you're using a lower figure in Windows. :)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 23, 2007, 12:03:06
Quote from: Rik on Sep 23, 2007, 10:53:06
I'm a Chubb(y) man myself, Alf. :)
Im a Yale man but some would say Chubb theses days  :D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 23, 2007, 12:05:13
Oi!!  Just 'cause I'm having a day off doesn't mean this thread can degenerate into mindless drivel!  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/grin.gif)
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: cavillas on Sep 23, 2007, 12:12:25
Oh yes it does. ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Gary on Sep 23, 2007, 13:00:07
Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 23, 2007, 12:05:13
Oi!!  Just 'cause I'm having a day off doesn't mean this thread can degenerate into mindless drivel!  (http://pc-pals.com/pics/smileys/grin.gif)
Think it just did Simon  ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Den on Sep 23, 2007, 13:46:48
The drivel isnt that mindless. But the mindles may dribble.   ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Simon on Sep 23, 2007, 20:24:05
What's a 'mindle', Den?  Do they all dribble?  ;D
Title: Re: Migration complete!
Post by: Den on Sep 23, 2007, 21:23:12
Youve got it  :crazy:   :yeahright: