I don't think I'm thread-hijacking but am happy to start a new thread if the OP feels that I am. Seems sensible to add to the current thread.
Does anyone know exactly what external work Openreach do to mount the FTTP External Junction Box (EJB) on the outside of the house and connect it to the fibre network in the street?
And can cable be routed outside the house between the EJB and the ONT box?
Openreach have some very basic information https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist#accordion-b43490109a-item-56113228ba (https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist#accordion-b43490109a-item-56113228ba)
but it does not have much detail.
I currently have FTTC from IDnet and had the email suggesting I convert to FTTP before the panic date - my street is fibre-ready. There are no poles in the street. All connections to premises are underground. Openreach have laid fibre from the exchange all the way along the street and the road has been fully resurfaced by the council too!
But my present copper connection from the FTTC EJB to the internal termination box runs round the outside of the house, up into the attic and along there to a little hole in the ceiling and down into my office at the back of the house where the router is. My PCs are connected to the router by a metre or so of ethernet cable (ground floor, it's a bungalow).
I would want the FTTP connection to follow that route or go up and over the garage and round the other side of the house to the office, through the wall to the new ONT box.
I have had a million emails with a very patient IDNet support and they first said I could pay (presumably Openreach) for a survey, good idea. When I said to go ahead, they came back and said Openreach won't do a survey for FTTP and I have to wait for the engineer to arrive on the day of the installation and if they can't do what I want, I have to pay a chunk of money to send them away again. I don't know what would happen after that.
So can anyone explain what Openreach do to make the undergound connection from street to premises? And how could they do that without first visiting the property? The whole thing seems to me to be a big disaster waiting to happen.
I wasn't even aware that a box would be required on the outside of the property.
When I was younger I used to get frustrated with elderly relatives who couldn't or wouldn't adapt to new technologies. Now I know exactly what they were feeling!
We have our boxes fitted outside the properties but there is a gap in the fibre network that prevents the installation from being completed. :facepalm:
I've split this into a new thread, as I think it would be useful to separate discussions around the actual installation process, from those considering options but have not yet gone ahead.
I have just taken the plunge and ordered FTTP from IDNet. It's the basic UltraFast 100 (FTTP 115/20) service on a 12 month contract at £36 per month. For the time being, I am leaving my phone on the old conventional landline service.
I placed the order and requested an installation date around the end of January, as that's when I am currently paid up to with my existing FTTC service. Despite previously wanting to use my existing router, I have ordered an ASUS RT-AX59U from IDNet, as I've read that my old router should be compatible, but might be tricky to configure to the new service. At least if I have a new router then they can't blame my hardware for any potential problems.
Following placing the order, I had all the relevant confirmation emails from IDNet, and then I received an automated phone call from Openreach, confirming that they would at some point be coming out to fit the box to the outside of the property. I had options to choose whether I wanted to be present when they arrived, or not, and I chose 'not', but I'm beginning to slightly regret that decision and I'm just hoping that they fit the box in the right location, as my property is a first floor coach house above garages.
So that's as far as I've got so far, and will update this thread with any progress.
What I'd like to know at this point is, when Openreach come into the property to install whatever they need to install, what is the actual process and how much disruption does it cause? Do they need to fit the box close to the phone socket, and if not, once I eventually switch to a VoIP phone service, does the phone then need to be relocated to where the internal box is? Presumably they need to drill through the wall to connect the outer box to the box inside? Some insight into this process would be appreciated.
Quote from: Simon on Dec 07, 2023, 14:35:22
Do they need to fit the box close to the phone socket, and if not, once I eventually switch to a VoIP phone service, does the phone then need to be relocated to where the internal box is? Presumably they need to drill through the wall to connect the outer box to the box inside? Some insight into this process would be appreciated.
The ONT can be fitted anywhere with an outside wall access. Usually they mount the outside box on the outside wall directly lined up with the ONT inside, to minimise the likelihood of fibre damage.
The VoIP phone needs to connect to your router using ethernet, not to the ONT.
I think it's worth mentioning the ONT needs to be powered.
Quote from: nowster on Dec 07, 2023, 17:52:17
The ONT can be fitted anywhere with an outside wall access. Usually they mount the outside box on the outside wall directly lined up with the ONT inside, to minimise the likelihood of fibre damage.
The VoIP phone needs to connect to your router using ethernet, not to the ONT.
I can work with that but it could all be a little untidy indoors as my PC / Phone station isn't near an outside wall. I guess I'll just have to run cables from where the ONT is to where the router lives.
Secondly, I am slightly concerned that Openreach will arrive and fit the outside box while I'm not in. If they fit it in the vicinity of the lounge window, that will be fine, but they'll have a choice of six windows, so the chances of them picking the optimum location are minimal. I really wish I hadn't authorised them to fit the outside box while I wasn't in, as it may only be luck now that I catch the engineer when he arrives.
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Dec 07, 2023, 18:08:43
I think it's worth mentioning the ONT needs to be powered.
Yeah, I have in mind behind the TV, where there are plenty of power sockets.
The other thing is, how does the box on the wall outside connect to the cabinet or whatever it needs to connect to in the road? Are they going to have to dig the lawn up? :-\
Something like that Simon. But don't worry about it because you won't see any trace of the cable. The box outside your front door will be connected to a very thin ethernet cable which will be glued around the wall to the router. It's so fine you won't see it but you will need to take care when you decorate. Installation takes about 90 minutes. I don't want to be a Job's comforter but I believe they will do the whole town rather than individual properties. You may have to wait till they get to your area.
It's all ordered and confirmed, Clive. So I think they must already be in my area.
I was more concerned about how the box on the outside of the property connects to whatever it needs to connect to, which I believe is underground.
Quote from: Simon on Dec 07, 2023, 19:05:08
The other thing is, how does the box on the wall outside connect to the cabinet or whatever it needs to connect to in the road? Are they going to have to dig the lawn up? :-\
It can follow your existing phone line wire. The outside box is just a junction box. From there they run a thin optical fibre tail to the ONT inside.
OK, I'm slowly getting my head around it. The problem might be that my phone line enters the property downstairs at the back, but I'd want the internal box positioned upstairs at the front.
Could they, theoretically, install the outside box in the downstairs cupboard where the phone line comes in, then feed the cable upstairs through the existing path of the phone line?
Quote from: Simon on Dec 08, 2023, 20:32:47
Could they, theoretically, install the outside box in the downstairs cupboard where the phone line comes in, then feed the cable upstairs through the existing path of the phone line?
Theoretically, they could install it outdoors next to where the phone line enters, but the fibre is fragile with a minimum bend radius. It might be better for them to route the tail outside the building up to where the ONT is being installed. I'm just hypothesising here. I've not chatted with any OpenReach engineers about this.
There's something here: https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist
https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/fttp-full-fibre-broadband-installation
And for the really technical: https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/openreach-dam-files/new-dam-(not-in-use-yet)/documents/help-support/How-to-build-a-fibre-network-Sept-23.pdf
My understanding is they prefer to position the external junction box as close to the ONT as possible for reasons given by nowster and because there is also a maximum limit for the cable length.
For what it's worth (and of no particular help) my entire area has recently been upgraded to FTTP and I'd say 99% of the external junction boxes are at pavement level even though the connecting cables originate from a telegraph pole. It seems to me that they have simply followed the original service route.
Strangely our FTTP comes in from underground instead of one of the bazillion telegraph poles in the area :dunno:
To be honest your best bet might be to change the appointment so that you can talk to the engineer because I do believe there is some flexibility within the system.
Quote from: nowster on Dec 09, 2023, 00:06:19
Theoretically, they could install it outdoors next to where the phone line enters, but the fibre is fragile with a minimum bend radius. It might be better for them to route the tail outside the building up to where the ONT is being installed. I'm just hypothesising here. I've not chatted with any OpenReach engineers about this.
There's something here: https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist
I had actually seen that link, and this is the bit I can't get my head around:
QuoteHow do we connect the external junction box?
We connect the 15cm x 13cm external junction box to the Openreach fibre network using a fibre optic cable. Depending on your property, the cable will either run from underground or from a telegraph pole. In both cases, the cable runs directly from one of our exchanges.
In my case it would run from underground, but that still doesn't explain
how the connection is established. Presumably they've got to dig something up to get the fibre cable from underground to the property.
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Dec 09, 2023, 00:33:26
My understanding is they prefer to position the external junction box as close to the ONT as possible for reasons given by nowster and because there is also a maximum limit for the cable length.
If they position the external box at street level, they'd then have to somehow run the cable to the first floor, as my flat is above garages.
QuoteTo be honest your best bet might be to change the appointment so that you can talk to the engineer because I do believe there is some flexibility within the system.
I did mention that to IDNet, and they said the only way to do that would be to cancel the whole thing and start again. I can only see that as a recipe for disaster so I think I'll just have to hope that I'm here when the engineer calls, and that they don't call unannounced.
Come to think of it, there must be an existing route for the current copper phone line to reach the property from underground, so maybe they could use that?
The most likely scenario is they will attempt to take the same route as your existing installation. If that's not possible they will either dig a trench or use a telegraph pole if one exists.
It says mine is not available at the moment so that is why I had to leave IDNet. I'm only paying £15 a month for the first two years and that's for 150Mps. I can get 900mps for £25 a month.
Well, Openreach came out today to do the work outside in preparation for the internal installation. They fitted the box where I wanted it which is good, but apparently the duct which goes from my property to the bit it needs to go to underground, has been blocked by other companies installing their Fibre cables, so this needs to be cleared in order for them to install mine. 🤨
The guy said he's submitted the paperwork for 'them' to come out and clear the ducts, but I'm not sure who 'them' is and how long that will take. Otherwise they'll apparently have to get permission from the estate management company to start digging stuff up. Why is nothing ever simple? 🫤
Sounds typical.
We had a rogue cable issue a few weeks ago after a storm brought down multiple cables, all of which ended up trailing across our property including the roof. After a week of phoning around nobody wanted take responsibility for them so I removed them myself. I have no idea what they were for but they were that robust I needed bolt croppers to cut through them. I'm still alive so I'm assuming they weren't connected to the national grid :facepalm:
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Dec 13, 2023, 18:07:06
Sounds typical.
We had a rogue cable issue a few weeks ago after a storm brought down multiple cables, all of which ended up trailing across our property including the roof. After a week of phoning around nobody wanted take responsibility for them so I removed them myself. I have no idea what they were for but they were that robust I needed bolt croppers to cut through them. I'm still alive so I'm assuming they weren't connected to the national grid :facepalm:
No but that new spiky hair-do suits you. :laugh:
:lol:
I did wear a pair of Marigolds and stand on a rubber mat because I've never seen cable like it before. There were multiple inner cores wrapped in a thick outer sheathing which in turn was wrapped in high tensile steel wire.
I had a knock on the door this morning from a scrap merchant asking if I wanted to get rid of the aforementioned cable. I'd left it at the end of the drive hoping someone would come along and steal it because it would have taken at least three or four trips to the local dump to get rid of it. Anyway the guy was quite knowledgeable and told me the cable was redundant, originally used to distribute radio and TV signals for Rediffusion.
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Dec 17, 2023, 15:53:02I'd left it at the end of the drive hoping someone would come along and steal it
You should have put a sign on it- "For Sale £20"
It would have been gone by the following morning ;)
Quote from: Bill on Dec 17, 2023, 17:07:15
You should have put a sign on it- "For Sale £20"
It would have been gone by the following morning ;)
:lol:
I've just been advised that the current provisional scheduled date for 'civil works' (whatever that entails) is 31/1/2024. So that's clearly going to put my installation date back.
I must say that IDNet have kept me informed of all updates, for which I am grateful.
It's no time at all in the grand scheme of things Simon. At least you can see it on the horizon if not just around the corner. :thumb:
It doesn't seem worth starting new thread just for this question, so I hope I've picked a suitable thread.
My quest to save some money on broadband/phone without sacrificing customer service quality continues and I'm wondering if it's possible to have VoIP phone and full fibre broadband from two different companies. I'm tempted go with A+A for the phone side of things and stick with IDNet for broadband.
Doable or never going to happen? Be gentle.
I can't see how that would work without having two routers as the Voip has to be connected physically to the router for it to work.
I decided to ask A+A anyway before I saw your message, Clive. If it's ridiculous, I'll find out!
A quick update on my journey, whilst I'm here...
The guys from OR turned up unexpectedly this morning at 8am, saying they'd come about the blocked ducts.
After about half an hour, I went out to see what what happening, and they said "The ducts are blocked". I pointed out that we already knew this after the OR guys came last time, and I'd assumed the purpose of this visit was to rectify the problem. They then started talking about digging up hedges, and decided that they needed a supervisor to visit, after which they sat in their van for a short while, then disappeared, and I've not seen them since.
I'm beginning to wonder if this is all worthwhile.
My solace in that situation, Simon, would be that at least we have Brian.
Quote from: Clive on Jan 24, 2024, 13:20:45
I can't see how that would work without having two routers as the Voip has to be connected physically to the router for it to work.
Don't think that is the case. A VoIP service from another provider is just another internet connection (like going to another web-site). Some routers then have the decoding firmware inside and a phone socket, other routers need you to put an ATA into one of the ethernet sockets then the phone into the ATA. You then have to register your VoIP device (in the same way as you have to log in to your registered account to visit some web-sites) and that should be it done.
The caveat is that some VoIP providers (for example BT/EE) have custom firmware built into their own supplied routers; third party routers used on those networks cannot access the VoIP provided by the ISP. Not a problem in the other direction if you have a BT/EE connection and want to use someone like A&A as the VoIP provider as their credentials will work through the BT/EE Hub.
My router has a phone socket installed. The IDNet phone package was superb as it included almost all countries in the world.
So, A+A can take over the phone line if my broadband is full fibre, but not otherwise. May well get back to them on this. (Pesky mail client stuck their first reply into the spam folder. Tsk, tsk.) I don't use my landline much but I like having the option so I don't mind paying for it. And what A+A charge is peanuts.
Quote from: peasblossom on Jan 25, 2024, 15:36:02
So, A+A can take over the phone line if my broadband is full fibre, but not otherwise. May well get back to them on this. (Pesky mail client stuck their first reply into the spam folder. Tsk, tsk.) I don't use my landline much but I like having the option so I don't mind paying for it. And what A+A charge is peanuts.
The whole issue is giving a lot of people problems but in reality there are only a few things to consider. VoIP is just another piece of internet connectability and is available anywhere that has an internet connection be that fibre, VDSL (what the ISPs mendaciously sold to us a fibre when it still relies on copper to supply the service to the house) or ADSL. There is no inherent relationship between VoIP and FTTP.
Under the OFCOM rules of engagement, where you have an ISP supplying broadband and phone in tandem then requesting a port of the number to another supplier ceases the phone line connection from the losing provider. If your broadband comes down the same wire as your phone that automatically means that your broadband is ceased when the phone connection is ceased. When you say that you like having the option of the landline I presume that what you actually mean is that you like the option of having a landline number which you can make available to people wishing to contact you - and there is a generational issue that older people have been used to the landline system for so many years that they instinctively still contact people by landline rather than mobile.
Where does that leave us? You can go to VoIP at any time. If you port your landline number to another supplier your existing supplier will cease your phone and broadband.
What options are there to get round that?
You can move your complete broadband and phone package to a supplier who sells VoIP like A&A.
You can port your number to an independent supplier of VoIP which gives you lots of options so that you can have for example all of your "landline" calls received by phones in the house and your mobile at the same time, That will cease your existing broadband so you will have to order a new internet service without any phone (SOGEA in technical jargon). This may mean you are without broadband if the parallel processes get out of sync. It may also mean cancellation charges on the existing connection.
You can see if your ISP will sell you a SOGEA service and provide VoIP phone. If so you should be able to make a simple transfer through the ISP.
You can order a new broadband and phone service on a second landline to the house (so likely to incur installation charges), make sure that works OK then port your landline number to a VoIP service which will cease the original line. You access the VoIP through your new internet connection. This may incur cancellation charges on the exiting connection and you will be making monthly payments for 2 services until you are happy to change over. This process is also the best process to follow if you can move to FTTP in order to avoid the possibility of being without service if the process misses a beat during the transfer.
There is a lot to be said for moving the existing landline number to an independent VoIP supplier as that breaks the link between the supply of broadband and the supply of phone. That does require a bit more work and possibly a little more expense as systems are run in tandem until you are sure that everything works. You also need to check whether the new VoIP provider has systems in place to port out your number if you wish to change VoIP supplier.
Whichever way you go forward it is important that you remove any connection between VoIP and FTTP from your thinking processes.
I do, however, want to get to FTTP at some point so for that purpose at least the two are connected. I've signed up to be alerted when full fibre broadband is finally available for this home.
I'll promise to try to be brief ....
Simon and Peablossom and myself have been chatting on the other thread entitled New UBOSS VOIP service in addition to CENTREX
which is within Networks and routers
May I ask one reasonably straightforward question addressed to Postal please.....
As we know AAISP (or A&A) offer, for around £44.40p , a thing called :- Broadband Number Porting Renumber and export of a phone number used for broadband
I cant be sure |I fully understand insofar as .... if, say, I upgrade my current Idnet ADSL contract to either a one month or a 12 month Idnet FTTP ..... but then wish to avail myself of AAISP's VOIP service at £1.40 a month can I use this £44.40 service to bring my existing landline number away from Idnet and over to AAISP and pay them the appropriate monthly sum (£1.40) plus call charges.
I have read and re-read their description but haven't grasped whether by doing so the aforementioned porting procedure would automatically cease the Idnet contract. I understand AAISP do have a simple alternative porting option at around £15 but presume that would definitely cease the Idnet broadband and phone plan straight away.
I was on the phone to AAISP today but didn't ask that specific question .... the advisor would definitely have told me as he was supremely helpful ... but it's the weekend now and impatience has become me.
I would, ordinarily, not hesitate to go with A&A as I suspect their service is as good as Idnet (and their VOIP phone plan even better) .... and have both their FTTP and VOIP phone plan but the router they supply (Technicolour 4134 or 4135) might, according to several sources, just possibly, not be the best in the world and I don't want to give myself grief if it's avoidable. Even the A&A adisor did say it doesn't have the very best WI-FI performance but it's the best one they offer (and they don't offer many). My local computer engineer that I would go to for service and repair at home was rather disparaging of that router too which doesn't help.
If I stayed with Idnet and swapped over to FTTP plus UBOSS VOIP phone I could choose from a number of ASUS models hence I'm wondering if an ASUS would be a better option which means staying with Idnet (not the end of the world!)
Anyway, maybe I'm overthinking the whole affair and I hereby place myself at the mercy of fellow contributors - all of whom will be better informed than I.
Ta.
First thing to remember is that by December 2025 everybody whose current phone service is provided through a BT wire will be on VoIP. The existing PSTN service is being turned off by then. That is not connected in anyway with the rollout of FTTP. Existing providers will either have to arrange for customers to migrate to VoIP or tell them that service can no longer be provided. If the service is maintained it may be via the existing providers VoIP service or a third party. If you are moved to FTTP you have the same situation as there is no PSTN service through a fibre optic connection. The notes below are to cover the situation where people want to get ahead of the forced migration which will happen to them through their existing ISP by December2025.
If you have a typical contract with an ISP you have signed up to a broadband service and a phone service. On FTTC both services are provided over the phone line. If you wish to port your number to another provider that automatically ceases the phone line. The loss of internet service is collateral damage (but you cannot avoid it). You have to make alternative arrangements for a new internet service without phone (SOGEA). To try and minimise the effect you can sign up to a VoIP provider before making any other change. The VoIP service will give you a phone number which you don't need to use. Once you have the arrangements in place for a broadband only service you can then port your existing number to the VoIP service (and hope that the number port and new broadband only service happen in sync). OfCOM now mandate that if things get out of sync you have 30 days after the cessation of service to transfer your landline number to another provider (which will be the VoIP service of your choice).
For your A&A / IDNet question you would need to talk to IDNet to see if you can transfer to a SOGEA service if the phone number is ported away. If they will do that then things should be very simple. If they cannot then you would need to order a SOGEA service from someone else then port your phone number to A&A. People on 12 or 24 month contracts may get hit with cancellation charges if the changeover happens mid-contract.
In regard to which router you should use most ISPs will provide with the necessary details so you can use a router of your own choice rather than one provided (although the tech support will normally only deal with any issues if you are connected using one of their supplied models). You use your own router but put the provided router in the cupboard to connect if there is a problem you need to take up with the ISP.
I'll sit and digest the above, Postal. Ta.
I have some friends who were provided with a Technicolour router by their ISP (not A&A). Admittedly they are in a large old house with thick brick walls, but they've had to use WiFi extenders to get decent coverage around the house.
Also, they've had one or two issues where the VoIP phone connection has dropped, and they've needed to reboot the router to get it up and running again. This only became apparent when they tried to make an outgoing call, but may have missed some incoming calls whilst the phones were down.
I'm not guaranteeing that the router was the problem, but I think these things are worth bearing in mind.
My VoIP line was crackly when it was first installed but it turned out to be a faulty router which was replaced free of charge.
Quote from: Simon on Jan 27, 2024, 11:21:25
I have some friends who were provided with a Technicolour router by their ISP (not A&A). Admittedly they are in a large old house with thick brick walls, but they've had to use WiFi extenders to get decent coverage around the house.
Also, they've had one or two issues where the VoIP phone connection has dropped, and they've needed to reboot the router to get it up and running again. This only became apparent when they tried to make an outgoing call, but may have missed some incoming calls whilst the phones were down.
I'm not guaranteeing that the router was the problem, but I think these things are worth bearing in mind.
That's the type of thing I've been warned about. The local engineer I spoke about has said the same ... he did also say that if I were to encounter WI FI difficulties he would advise allowing him to fit BT Whole Home discs (a sort of booster or extender).
However A&A are not amateurs or shysters and I find it hard to believe they would risk their good name by supplying a router that isn't up to the the job.
For me one of the main differences between the two ISPs in question is that Idnet offer a choice of FTTP compliant routers (including ASUS) whereas A&A only offer Technicolour .
They do say We offer a free router on our broadband services when you sign up with a 12 months term. We offer a discounted basic router when you choose 1 month or 6 month terms. Our customers are welcome to use their own equipment. but, of course, they won't be disposed to offer me tech. support on such a thing and I'd be on my own.
As I just said in the other thread, I'm now looking at the TP-Link VX230v available from IDNet, which does have an FXS port, so that would simplify matters when I come to switch the phone over.
Simon .... that TP Link router (£59.99) was mentioned to me by the first Idnet advisor I spoke to the other day. She said you might as well have the cheapest as they all do the same job but I'm not so sure about that.
At the time I, too, thought it would be a suitable solution however I asked the local engineer (mentioned above) about TP Link routers. In fact that was the main reason I rang him - to get his opinion on various routers that he has had experience with. I can only summarise his response but suffice to say he wasn't happy. He regarded them as cheap and cheerful ... but not actually cheerful. He said, you pays yer money and takes yer choice. You get what you pay for.
I'm as confused as you are, Simon. I genuinely am.
As you said about A&A supplying the Technicolour, I wouldn't have thought IDNet would have wanted to supply a troublesome router, as it would just lead to problems.
I currently have a TP-Link mesh WiFi system, so the router should also work well with that.
It seems a bit of a no-brainer to get a router with an FXS port, rather than having to spend out on a separate adapter. If the price you mentioned is correct, that would actually be cheaper than the Asus I've ordered.
I fully appreciate the logic of your thinking, Simon. It's like so many other things in life ... three people - three different opinions. I shall carry on head scratching.
The price I quoted is that shown on Idnet's website but is the "discounted" price that applies only if you take a 12 month contract out. You can see that price if you go to the site and apply for a broadband contract and select the 12 month option and continue completing the online form until such a point as you need to put your payment details in .... and at that point you just withdraw form the "application".
Yeah, that's fine, Stan. I've already placed the order for the Asus router, which was at the discounted price, so they should let me swap and have the TP-Link instead.
I guess one of the higher spec'd Asus routers would have the required FXS port, but I really don't like those ones that look like an upturned spider, and also, for practically, it would be better for me to have a vertical standing model, so in that, the TP-Link fits the bill.
I've looked reasonably long and hard and can't see any Asus routers with an FXS port attached.
There don't seem to be that many of them about. Seems odd, given that's the way things are going.
Quote from: stan on Jan 27, 2024, 16:57:46
I've looked reasonably long and hard and can't see any Asus routers with an FXS port attached.
That's 'cos they're dumping all the old ones without the FXS port at discount prices - before they come up with the "Get Ready for Dec 2025 - UPGRADE NOW!!!! " new models in about 3 month time :laugh:
Smart thinking! ;D
So, I've swapped the Asus router I ordered for the TP-Link one with the FXS port, which was actually £41 cheaper. I'm somewhat suspicious that it won't live up to expectation as it seems too good to be true to get a router with an FXS port cheaper than for one without, but we shall see.
Thanks very much, Simon, for letting us know what you've done.
Trust me, I fully understand the thought processes you're having at the moment. I completely understand your misapprehension about going for a device that, on the face of it, has extra features but is so much cheaper.
Had an Asus router been available that DID have one or two FXS phone ports built in then, if I'd been in your position, I'd have gone for it ... and you probably would too ...but there isn't one so we can't.
And if I were to move away from Idnet over to A&A I find myself in exactly the same position insofar as A&A only supply Technicolour and Zyxel and no higher grade routers. The Technicolours they supply do have two FXS phone ports, same as your TP Link router does have an FXS port to accept your DECT base station.
I've looked long and hard at the reviews and reports regarding various grades of router and honestly am no better informed than when I started other than to accept that if you pay more for a mid to upper grade router you stand a better chance of better performance than if you get a cheap one. And that doesn't help you or I coz you don't seem to be able to get mid or upper grade routers with built in FXS ports. That just leaves the option of an ATA and, in your case you've decided against one of them so we now simply hope that the TP Link serves its purpose. There's always the option to use an extender if you needed better wi fi coverage.
I emailed Idnet yesterday and got a reply today (good service). They confirmed the price of keeping my ADSL plan and the existing phone plan that I have with them. The cost for both at renewal in a couple months time is £39 a month if paid annually. Presumably more if I have a monthly plan (I should have asked). They also confirmed what we already knew about the cost of FTTP but it was useful to know I've understood the costings correctly as per the website information.
I'll be interested to follow your progress, Simon.
Regarding using a WiFi extender, I already have a TP-Link two-station Mesh system up and running, so I'm assuming that will work well with the new router.
I purposely haven't read reviews. I realise that can be a little naive, but without additional expense, I don't really have another option than the TP-Link, so I will just judge this one on personal experience.
OR were supposed to be here today to do the 'civil works' but no sign of them appearing yet. As I didn't have an official appointment and this was just an ETA from IDNet, if I go out, which I have to, I hope they won't try to charge me for not being home.
One other thing I'm a little concerned about is the eventual positioning of the internal box. I want it where the old one is, which is obviously near a phone socket near my PC station. The external box is hopefully being installed where the current copper phone line enters the property, and as this is the master socket (even though it's downstairs and the living accommodation is upstairs), I'm hoping there will be an existing route from that socket to the phone socket near where I want the router? I realise the phone sockets themselves aren't used for the FTTP, but what are the chances of existing wiring routes being utilised?
Quote from: Simon on Jan 31, 2024, 14:05:55
OR were supposed to be here today to do the 'civil works' but no sign of them appearing yet. As I didn't have an official appointment and this was just an ETA from IDNet, if I go out, which I have to, I hope they won't try to charge me for not being home.
One other thing I'm a little concerned about is the eventual positioning of the internal box. I want it where the old one is, which is obviously near a phone socket near my PC station. The external box is hopefully being installed where the current copper phone line enters the property, and as this is the master socket (even though it's downstairs and the living accommodation is upstairs), I'm hoping there will be an existing route from that socket to the phone socket near where I want the router? I realise the phone sockets themselves aren't used for the FTTP, but what are the chances of existing wiring routes being utilised?
"Civils" might not need an appointment, as its "spades outside", unless they need access into a locked field/garden.
Installing the fibre is usually a two-step process - there's the job of getting fibre thorough duct/poles, and arriving as a coil of spare fibre at your house wall. And a second job of fitting the internal fibre termination box and connecting the fibre to the internal termination box.
Outside, when finished (second job), is a small plastic box, approx 6in square by 1 in deep. That contains the surplus fibre (would round a spool) and a junction in the fibre to a shorter piece which goes into the house. Inside the house, is a small fibre box, size of a square wall plate (single main socket, PSTN plate, light switch, etc..), which requires power (3-pin power brick is supplied by OpenReach). Leaving that box is ethernet cable, with a theoretical run limit around 1000m (large stately home?) to the router.
No chance of using existing internal house phone wiring for networking: wrong number of cores, incorrect wire arrangement. Might be possible to pull a new ethernet cable through the ducts, that depends how the phone extensions were installed, and particularly access to corners/bends, which are often very tight in domestic wiring. If you want that arrangement, start investigating how to do it now.
You may want to ask the installer of the second part whether they can install into your preferred location; that would likely happen by running things externally, then in through a wall at the final place.
So, what I've got is a single storey flat with garages underneath. At the rear of the property is a cupboard which houses the electric and gas meters, plus the incoming phone point and also the communal TV feeds (Freeview / Sky). From this cupboard, there must be a route for the wiring to feed up to the internal TV and phone points above, and that's what I was hoping they could somehow use to pull the FTTP wiring through.
I'll have to talk to them when they arrive to fit the external box, assuming this will be separate to the civil works. If my plan isn't an option, then I'll have to have another rethink on the location of the external box, as obviously I don't want the internal wiring trailing all through the flat.
I've just had an update from IDNet and it seems now that OR's 'field engineers' are next on the list to come out and assess the situation.
I'm genuinely starting to wonder if I'd be better off just staying as I am on FTTC. This whole FTTP thing seems a hell of a lot of disruption, what with blocked ducting, external and internal boxes requiring installation, and drilling through walls.
How long will it be before it's all redundant when everything becomes WiFi? I'm sure it can't be that far away that you connect to the internet in much the same way as we currently connect to mobile networks. A box distributing WiFi to a neighbourhood doesn't seem all that far fetched.
If I stay as I am, all it will mean is that I will need to get a new router by the end of 2025 to switch the phone to VoIP. At the moment, that seems a far more attractive proposition than all the drama of trying to get FTTP.
Understood, Simon.
Keep us informed.
Another reluctant consideration is to go with the company that's already installed their fibre 'lines' (?) and blocked the ducting in doing so. It would seem logical that if their pipes are already in place it would just be a question of running the cable to my property.
But, I've not heard many reports about their reliability and I really don't want to leave IDNet.
Remind me who that was?
(I have trouble keeping up with the plot)
I've not mentioned them before. I believe they're called Swish Fibre, but there were several companies installing fibre in the area a couple of years ago, so I'm not even sure it's them.
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure :)
Swish Fibre are very highly regarded and quite affordable. FTTP has finally caught up with the modern world where loyalty counts for nothing and you can save literally hundreds of pounds by switching to a new provider every so often.
BT seem to have little interest in bringing FTTP to my area yet ("Build planned between now and Dec-2026"... helpful, not :( ). I can get fibre from an AltNet, but with CGNAT and no IPv6 it's not a proper internet connection in my view and FTTC is fast enough for my needs so I'll just wait. I don't really want to leave IDNet either.
That leaves the phone, I can't ignore that for another three years. I decided some while back that VOIP was too likely to make my aged brain hurt, so I decided the easy way out was to ditch the landline number and just use the mobile. I think I've got all of my contacts updated (can't remember the last incoming landline call that wasn't spam!) so I'll wait a few months just to be a bit more sure then SOGEA here I come :D
As an Apple user I sure won't miss calls at 7:30am from Microsoft telling me about suspicious activity on my line!
Quote from: Bill on Feb 05, 2024, 16:10:02
As an Apple user I sure won't miss calls at 7:30am from Microsoft telling me about suspicious activity on my line!
Before we ditched the landline we only ever got calls from people trying to rob us and multiple calls from the mother-in-law so it was a double win :evil:
I'm seriously considering ditching the whole idea, but I guess there's an argument that these ducts are going to need unblocking at some point, so better to get it done now, rather than wait for problems, or until I'm forced to? Also, it will be at OR's expense if I have it done now - would that necessarily be the case in the future, once they realise just how much work is involved in rolling out FTTP across the country?
I don't want to derail this into another detailed discussion, but say I stayed on FTTC - would I just need to buy an FXS enabled router (such as the TP-Link I've ordered from IDNet) when the eventual switch to VoIP becomes inevitable?
As you know my neighbour opposite had a crushed duct. It took a while to get it fixed but, credit where it's due, OR got a grip and the actual repair was carried out professionally and neatly and it does mean he knows any future requirement to pass a cable from the pavement underground chamber to his house would be uneventful. He was cursing while the delays carried on waiting for FTTP but he's glad he had it done now and pleased with his fibre.
I'm not in any hurry, but I wish they'd actually let me know when they're coming. If it's going to be significant work, then I want to be here, but also, I don't really want an unexpected visit at 8 in the morning! So far they haven't actually stuck to any of the projected dates.
Quote from: Simon on Feb 05, 2024, 13:22:45
I've just had an update from IDNet and it seems now that OR's 'field engineers' are next on the list to come out and assess the situation.
I'm genuinely starting to wonder if I'd be better off just staying as I am on FTTC. This whole FTTP thing seems a hell of a lot of disruption, what with blocked ducting, external and internal boxes requiring installation, and drilling through walls.
How long will it be before it's all redundant when everything becomes WiFi? I'm sure it can't be that far away that you connect to the internet in much the same way as we currently connect to mobile networks. A box distributing WiFi to a neighbourhood doesn't seem all that far fetched.
If I stay as I am, all it will mean is that I will need to get a new router by the end of 2025 to switch the phone to VoIP. At the moment, that seems a far more attractive proposition than all the drama of trying to get FTTP.
Then think on about what happens if you want to change ISPs. If your new ISP is tied to a different fibre network then you have the same situation all over again and end up with two fibres coming into the house and two ONTs on your inside wall (and you cannot remove the redundant one as it is not your property and the losing network will insist that it stays there in case any new resident wants to return to that service).
In regard to neighbourhood WiFi, why would you need a new box to distribute neighbourhood WiFi when you already have a network doing exactly that with mobile signals? You don't need a mobile phone to latch onto that, you need a bit of kit that talks in mobile network speak. There are already lots of people who have adequate mobile phone signals who have ditched their landline completely, bought a modem/router designed to work with the mobile signal and now conduct all of their voice and internet business through that channel (and saving £10 or £20 a month) - and with VoIP you can even retain your old landline number if you wish.
Finally you don't
have to get a new router by the end of 2025. You can by an ATA (Analogue Telephone Adapter) which you can plug into your existing router and into which you plug your landline phone.
Quote from: Postal on Feb 06, 2024, 09:24:08
Then think on about what happens if you want to change ISPs. If your new ISP is tied to a different fibre network then you have the same situation all over again and end up with two fibres coming into the house and two ONTs on your inside wall (and you cannot remove the redundant one as it is not your property and the losing network will insist that it stays there in case any new resident wants to return to that service).
In regard to neighbourhood WiFi, why would you need a new box to distribute neighbourhood WiFi when you already have a network doing exactly that with mobile signals? You don't need a mobile phone to latch onto that, you need a bit of kit that talks in mobile network speak. There are already lots of people who have adequate mobile phone signals who have ditched their landline completely, bought a modem/router designed to work with the mobile signal and now conduct all of their voice and internet business through that channel (and saving £10 or £20 a month) - and with VoIP you can even retain your old landline number if you wish.
Finally you don't have to get a new router by the end of 2025. You can by an ATA (Analogue Telephone Adapter) which you can plug into your existing router and into which you plug your landline phone.
So, are you suggesting I'd be better off staying as I am?
I guess the argument to the first part is, what if I'm still on FTTC and want to change ISP? Most probably won't be offering a new FTTC contract now, so I would then be forced to go to FTTP in any case.
Quote from: Simon on Feb 06, 2024, 10:06:00
So, are you suggesting I'd be better off staying as I am?
I guess the argument to the first part is, what if I'm still on FTTC and want to change ISP? Most probably won't be offering a new FTTC contract now, so I would then be forced to go to FTTP in any case.
Not at all. I'm only offering some comments on your posting not trying to tell you what is best for your personal situation.
It looks as if once again there has been a lack of clarity leading to confusion for the ordinary customer. BT have a Stop Sell policy. They will not wholesale or retail an FTTC product if there is more than 75% FTTP coverage in the area and the customer has FTTP available. If you are one of the left-behind 25% you will still be served as previously using what BT call MPF (Metallic Path Facility) - the old copper wires back to the cabinet or exchange and they will still take orders from ISPs for an FTTC service (although there will be no phone service). If you are not in a Stop Sell area then nothing changes from the current situation in regard to internet but the landline phone service will be gone by December 2025.
So for your situation it will depend on what the local fibre coverage is like. If you are in a Stop Sell area, have FTTP available and want to change provider you will have to move to an FTTP service. If you are not in a Stop Sell area or are in a Stop Sell area but do not have FTTP available then you will still be able to order FTTC; as far as I understand it any change of ISP will require a move to VoIP phone but i may be wrong on that. In that situation there is nothing to stop any ISP offering you a service.
OK, thanks. So, given I do have FTTP available, notwithstanding the issues supplying my individual home, I don't really have an awful lot of options.
IDNet's FTTC service has had a price hike, so I'd be paying more for that than I have been, if I stayed on that service, plus, they're no longer offering the annual payment discount. The FTTP service from IDNet works out cheaper than I was paying for the FTTC service, so that would seem a no-brainer, but for the installation issues.
I couldn't switch from IDNet to another (cheaper) FTTC service as FTTP is available, so I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
My only other option might be to move to an FTTP service where the 'plumbing' already exists, therefore it would just be a matter of them connecting their existing network to my property. But I don't want to leave IDNet.
Quote from: Simon on Feb 06, 2024, 11:07:56
OK, thanks. So, given I do have FTTP available, notwithstanding the issues supplying my individual home, I don't really have an awful lot of options.
IDNet's FTTC service has had a price hike, so I'd be paying more for that than I have been, if I stayed on that service, plus, they're no longer offering the annual payment discount. The FTTP service from IDNet works out cheaper than I was paying for the FTTC service, so that would seem a no-brainer, but for the installation issues.
I couldn't switch from IDNet to another (cheaper) FTTC service as FTTP is available, so I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.
My only other option might be to move to an FTTP service where the 'plumbing' already exists, therefore it would just be a matter of them connecting their existing network to my property. But I don't want to leave IDNet.
All of your comments above only apply if you are in a Stop Sell area (i.e. more than 75% of the premises in whatever Openreach define as your area have FTTP available). This is probably the area covered by your local telephone exchange, not the houses and streets in your immediate vicinity. Have you actually checked whether you are in a Stop Sell area? Have you looked at any other ISP web-sites to see what service they can offer you? Unless you are in a BT defined Stop Sell area the only immediate change (before December 2025) is the cessation of the landline phone service. If you are in a Stop Sell area you will have to move to FTTP at some time in the not too distant future anyway so it is only a matter of picking the time that suits best (maybe when your phone is going to be forced to VoIP so that you make all the changes in one go). Whatever way you decide to go you are going to have to go through the pain barrier of the FTTP installation at some stage so better to do it at a time which suits you rather than when it is forced on you.
Personally I would let the fibre process continue because at some point in time (perhaps even now) you will almost certainly have the option of increasing your throughput while paying a fraction of what currently paying. That's where I'm at even though I live in a rural area.
One other small concern is that I was talking to a neighbour at some point when I started this process, and he said he had tried to get FTTP, but had also been told that as the ducts were blocked. However, it was implied to him that the council would have to come along and dig up the road, and he would have to pay £1,500 for the work.
I can't really see how this could be correct, but I certainly wouldn't entertain the idea of paying for such work myself.
Well I've done it: placed order with IDNet for FTTP and VOiP choosing cheapest options. Wish me luck!
You may need it, Dud, but I hope it goes smoothly for you. :)
I'll let you know how it progresses! :fingers:
Quote from: Simon on Feb 06, 2024, 16:13:49
One other small concern is that I was talking to a neighbour at some point when I started this process, and he said he had tried to get FTTP, but had also been told that as the ducts were blocked. However, it was implied to him that the council would have to come along and dig up the road, and he would have to pay £1,500 for the work.
I can't really see how this could be correct, but I certainly wouldn't entertain the idea of paying for such work myself.
Can we enquire who implied to her/him that (s)he would have to pay to have the ducts unblocked? There are lot of postings in other places on the internet about comments made by contractors which have little or no relationship with fact or truth. In this particular case there is at least one bit of fiction in that the council would not dig up the road, it would be the telecom company or its contractors (after having to apply to the council for a licence to dig if it obstructed the highway).
I don't know any more details. I also have to point out that he's deaf in one ear, so there could have been a misunderstanding! I don't see him very often but next time I do, I'll ask him.
According to the OR bods who've been here so far, it seems my blocked duct is under a hedge, so at worst, they might have to dig down under the hedge.
Where there were issues of access here including routing through a private lane and through a Western Power transformer room the FTTP provider just got on with themselves.
Quote from: Simon on Feb 06, 2024, 18:14:25
I also have to point out that he's deaf in one ear, so there could have been a misunderstanding!
Probably his ducts are blocked...... :red: I'll get me coat.
;D
Quote from: Clive on Feb 07, 2024, 10:03:20
Where there were issues of access here including routing through a private lane and through a Western Power transformer room the FTTP provider just got on with themselves.
Surely you're not suggesting OR are creating an unnecessary drama, Clive? :whistle:
We have Ogi, OR are a different mob. OGi have the monopoly in Wales. At least for the first two years.
Latest update:
Unfortunately we do not appear to have received a further update and due to the ongoing delays this has now been escalated to the next level.
Somehow I can't see this ever happening.
Isn't this what we pay Idnet for - to chase them up and get you what you requested and keep you informed?
That update was from IDNet, and as far as I am aware, they are chasing, hence the escalation. Sorry, I should have clarified.
I just have a feeling OR will eventually say it's too much work, and subsequently IDNet won't be able to provide me with a service.
But I do tend to predict the worst scenarios in these situations. It might all turn out OK.
That won't happen Simon. The work is just run of the mill to the installers.
Quote from: Postal on Jan 27, 2024, 02:29:27
First thing to remember is that by December 2025 everybody whose current phone service is provided through a BT wire will be on VoIP. The existing PSTN service is being turned off by then.
No longer strictly true. It has recently been announced that OpenReach will be installing ATA cards at the exchange for those who do not wish to switch to VoIP service. This will not be available to new customers.
Quote from: nowster on Feb 10, 2024, 02:01:47
No longer strictly true. It has recently been announced that OpenReach will be installing ATA cards at the exchange for those who do not wish to switch to VoIP service. This will not be available to new customers.
Can you provide a reference for that please? It would be really helpful so that I can then spread the word amongst the high proportion of vulnerable users in our community.
Yes, that's a very interesting development.
Quote from: Postal on Feb 10, 2024, 09:37:41
Can you provide a reference for that please? It would be really helpful so that I can then spread the word amongst the high proportion of vulnerable users in our community.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/11/openreach-prep-alternative-uk-analogue-style-phone-product.html
"SOTAP for Analogue"
Quote from: nowster on Feb 10, 2024, 12:16:04
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/11/openreach-prep-alternative-uk-analogue-style-phone-product.html
"SOTAP for Analogue"
That's excellent. Thank you very much.
Another Openreach engineer came out today, and once again, attempted to 'rod' the ducts, but confirmed that there is a blockage, and it would need some digging work.
The guy was perfectly reasonable, and did his best to shove the rods through, but this is the third engineer now who's said the ducts are blocked, so I'm wondering when someone will eventually appear to actually remove the blockages, so that the installation can be completed?
I've updated IDNet with this information, and suggested some pressure might be applied, so we shall see what happens next.
It never fails to amaze me how badly some companies communicate internally. That seems to be one of the key issues with your installation, Simon.
Ta for the update.
It seems to me the problem here is a company working to Victorian standards. After establishing the fact that the duct was blocked why didn't they just employ Dyno-Rod to carry out a CCTV survey :dunno:
I think this guy yesterday did have a camera, Zap. It's just a bit annoying that it's taken them three visits to come to the same conclusion and nothing has actually been done yet to rectify the issue.
All this will be so familiar to my neighbour opposite who went through much the same, but he did get it done eventually and all is now resolved.
Quote from: Simon on Feb 14, 2024, 10:29:58It's just a bit annoying that it's taken them three visits to come to the same conclusion and nothing has actually been done yet to rectify the issue.
Not quite the same, but... "It all makes work for the working man to do" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1dvAxA9ib0) :bawl:
Quote from: Bill on Feb 14, 2024, 11:42:47
Not quite the same, but... "It all makes work for the working man to do" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1dvAxA9ib0) :bawl:
;D That's a blast from the past!
Quote from: stan on Feb 14, 2024, 10:40:25
All this will be so familiar to my neighbour opposite who went through much the same, but he did get it done eventually and all is now resolved.
I had the same nonsense with an overhead cable. Multiple visits and head-scratching plus the day they actually came to do the job I was on my way out. Unusually I went out the back way where three OpenReach vehicles and a cherry picker were parked. I didn't occur to me until I was half a mile away that they might have come to replace my cable. Luckily when I got back they were still at the tea and doughnut stage of the job so the job got done ::)
Yeah, the fact that they keep turning up unannounced is another worry. I really want to be here when they do any work, but it's difficult if I don't know when they're coming.
Plus ça change, etc.
When I had NYNEX install cable phone back in the late 1990s, they couldn't complete the install because the tee on the duct under the pavement faced the wrong way, and they couldn't fit the cable through it.
Because the install also involved a number port, we lost BT phone service that evening because that wasn't cancelled when the job was abandoned that day. One panic phone call got it restored within about an hour.
Then there were further delays and missed appointments before the pavement was dug up. Ultimately the compensation payments paid for the install and the first few months of service.
You got compensation for the phone being disconnected for one hour?
Quote from: Simon on Feb 14, 2024, 22:23:10
You got compensation for the phone being disconnected for one hour?
I don't think so. The majority was a per-day compensation for the delay in installation of over a week.
Quote from: nowster on Feb 14, 2024, 22:39:23
I don't think so. The majority was a per-day compensation for the delay in installation of over a week.
So, were you without an internet service for that time? My install date was 17th Jan, so it's now nearly a month late, but as I still have an FTTC service, I don't think I could make a compensation claim, even though I'm now paying a higher rate for the existing FTTC service (as IDNet's prices have increased), than I would be for the FTTP.
Quote from: Simon on Feb 14, 2024, 23:12:55
So, were you without an internet service for that time? My install date was 17th Jan, so it's now nearly a month late, but as I still have an FTTC service, I don't think I could make a compensation claim, even though I'm now paying a higher rate for the existing FTTC service (as IDNet's prices have increased), than I would be for the FTTP.
This was 1998 or so. Internet access was still dial-up then!
Missed installs may still be subject to a compensation scheme, even if it's an upgrade.
Quick update - the guy who came last time has just called again (on a Sunday morning!), and said that the 'dig guys' have said that where the blockage is located is "too deep", and they won't dig it again. So the plan now is to run a new duct, which means digging up my lawn and front path. :facepalm:
It's not actually my lawn and path, as it belongs to the estate, so they're going to have to get permission for that, and he did say that there's a small chance when drilling through that a "brick could blow", which would result in further repair work and an insurance claim, so that's a little worrying, but they're planning to install the external box under the window of the room where I want the internal box to go, so that will reduce some cabling.
Ever wish you'd never started something...?
Quote from: Simon on Feb 18, 2024, 11:50:42
Ever wish you'd never started something...?
Yup but we are still together after 40+ years :evil:
I think you will find that the installers have all the powers they need to do just as they want. It's a Government edict that we must all have access to FTTP. Certainly nothing stopped them in our area.
FTTP is installed and working!!! A nice chap from Kelly Communications, working indoors in a cramped corner and outside in rain, completed task in one hour 25 minutes. I can't imagine how he singlehandedly ran new fibre from pole through neighbour's tree to house but it seemed to cause him no trouble at all.
Well done! That's fantastic news. :thumb:
Glad it's worked for someone! :thup:
I'm still waiting for the men with spades to show up, but I now have arrows sprayed on the lawn and path, showing where they need to dig! :facepalm:
Quote from: dudwell on Feb 22, 2024, 12:40:03
FTTP is installed and working!!! A nice chap from Kelly Communications, working indoors in a cramped corner and outside in rain, completed task in one hour 25 minutes. I can't imagine how he singlehandedly ran new fibre from pole through neighbour's tree to house but it seemed to cause him no trouble at all.
Many years ago - around 2005 ish I think - I was watching TV on a dark and stormy night when there was an almighty great 'bang' outside and all the power went off.
Our houses get their power via overhead cables and poles. We have pole on the edge of our garden.
The wire arrives via a pole in a neighbour's garden and in between - in their garden - was a bloody great leylandii hedge and a smallish ash tree which I think starts off in their neighbour's garden - all the poles are on boundaries
The hedge was not managed at all. Over the years it had grown up and around the power cable.
Then on that night the wind whipped the branches around so much it pulled the cable off the pole in their garden.
The cable was replaced by a stronger system, and a hole cut in the hedge.
A few years later the house changed hands and the new owners took out the leylandii hedge and we actually got the light back in our garden.
The small ash tree next to their power pole is now a much bigger ash tree and they keep having to cut back branches around the cable. The owners of the tree are not bothered.
The moral of this sad little tale is that trees grow. Gaps in trees in winter become filled with leafy twigs and stuff which, given our wild and windy autumns, can thrash around a lot in a storm.
Just sayin'
Thank you Robinc. The tree, a copper (!) beech, has concerned me for years but I think I can't do anything about it until it causes trouble. The FTTP installation chap didn't seem troubled.
Meanwhile a couple of problems following the changeover:-
YouTube videos and iPlayer buffering and stalling on laptop very much worse than before. Perfectly fine on smart TV but then I can't read comments below YT videos. Fine on smartphone too but how do I know it isn't connecting via 4G?
The yellow cable from new wall box to router is a few inches too short to permit router to be stood on top of metal filing cabinet as previously. So router has to be positioned lower down beside filing cabinet which doesn't seem ideal.
Quote from: dudwell on Feb 23, 2024, 11:38:32
YouTube videos and iPlayer buffering and stalling on laptop very much worse than before. Perfectly fine on smart TV but then I can't read comments below YT videos. Fine on smartphone too but how do I know it isn't connecting via 4G?
There should be a WiFi icon on the smartphone if it's connecting to the WiFi. Otherwise, you should see a 4G icon.
QuoteThe yellow cable from new wall box to router is a few inches too short to permit router to be stood on top of metal filing cabinet as previously. So router has to be positioned lower down beside filing cabinet which doesn't seem ideal.
Did the engineer not see that when he was there? Seems a little unprofessional.
Quote from: Simon on Feb 23, 2024, 12:09:18
There should be a WiFi icon on the smartphone if it's connecting to the WiFi. Otherwise, you should see a 4G icon.
I see both!
Quote from: Simon on Feb 23, 2024, 12:09:18Did the engineer not see that when he was there? Seems a little unprofessional.
Alas I let him go before checking. I'll buy a longer cable if I know exactly what. I suppose it simply plugs in to wall box? It's hard to reach and seems very wobbly.
I think the phone will only connect to one or the other. If you turn off Mobile Data, then you'll see if you're still connected by WiFi.
When my internal installation takes place, I'm going to be watching the engineer like a hawk!
Or you can go to Airplane mode then re-enable WiFi (and Bluetooth if necessary). It's a handy tip I picked up on another Internet Forum if you are in an area with no mobile signal and are connecting through WiFi. While you are in normal mode your phone is constantly searching for a phone signal and constantly not finding one. This eats up your battery. We are in a mobile free area and my battery (venerable Samsung so not the latest tech) used to die after about 8 hours. Going to Airplane mode then re-enabling the WiFi means the battery now last a full 24 hours.
Quote from: Postal on Feb 24, 2024, 09:07:39
Or you can go to Airplane mode then re-enable WiFi (and Bluetooth if necessary). It's a handy tip I picked up on another Internet Forum if you are in an area with no mobile signal and are connecting through WiFi.
That's not a situation I've ever been in (yet!), but it's a tip worth remembering, thanks :thumb:
Quick update. The buffering and stalling problem with YouTube on laptop has mysteriously vanished without me doing anything. Hoping it stays that way :fingers:
I had an automated voicemail message from Openreach today, followed by a corresponding email from IDNet, confirming my installation date as 15th March. I just thought I'd better check...
So I emailed IDNet and they said they'd also been checking and that "Openreach have contacted us to advise that the appointment on the order is not correct as they are still waiting for the permission to work form to be returned." This is because they need to dig up land which is owned by the estate and isn't part of my freehold.
So, still nothing can go ahead until this work is done, so why OR sent out the install confirmation date is anyone's guess.
You're definitely having a mare with this.
I've basically forgotten about it and it will happen when it happens. The only annoyance is that all the time it's delayed, I'm paying the increased costs for my current FTTC service from IDNet.
Please do let us know when it does finally get installed. It'll be interesting (though it's clearly been tedious/irritating for you) to know when that will actually happen.
I had an email from Idnet the other day reminding me to sort the fibre out before everyone wants it done in a rush ... and they also advised my present deal is going up. Not sure I understood it correctly ... it seemed to say my ADSL is going up by a pound I think - and the rental is going up by one pound fifty pence I think. Have I got that right ... a total increase on both counts totalling £2. 50 plus VAT making three pounds ?
I,m currently building up the courage to fill in the online form to transfer to Andrews and Arnold and to port my landline to them and go VOIP for £1.40 a month or thereabouts. Been with Idnet for many years but I think I fancy a change.
I'm not blaming IDNet for any of this. I'm not sure if they could have pushed OR any harder, but Heather has kept me informed throughout.
I think my main issue is that it's taken OR three visits to decide they need to dig up the lawn, which should really have been apparent after the first visit when they initially found the blocked ducts. The different engineers on the last two visits have merely confirmed what the first lot said, but it's taken an extra two months to get to the point where they've applied for permission to do the work.
Let us know what you decide and how it goes, Stan. I'm not even touching my phone service at this time.
So, quick update - it seemed Openreach were having trouble getting hold of my property management company to get permission to dig up the lawn, which is managed by the estate.
I thought I'd make some enquiries and see if the property management company had actually heard from Openreach, and having explained the situation and outlined the work that needs doing, the property management company have emailed me back with permission to have the work done, providing that the contractors put things back the way they were when the work is completed.
I've passed this information onto IDNet, who will forward it to Openreach, and unless Openreach require anything further, such as a particular form needing to be completed, hopefully we will be able to proceed before too much longer.
All in all, this took about an hour this afternoon, so I don't know why it's taken OR three weeks of faffing around to get nowhere.
I've had a notification from DPD to say that a package from IDNet is on the way. Presumably this will be the router, although I'm not quite sure why it's been sent at this point, given we don't even have a date for OR to do the outside work yet.
Here is an update on the process as it has so far unfolded for me. I have read all of Simon's saga with great interest.
The Openreach engineer arrived today to get as much as possible done of the FTTP installation. He also called a 2nd engineer to come over to help, which was a good move.
The main engineer was here for about four hours.
He fitted the external junction box to the front of the house, where the previous copper junction box for FTTC was positioned. That new box encloses the present copper connection also.
He then came inside and fitted the ONT (internal fibre termination box) in my office at the back of the house. He drilled through the cavity wall (saying he hoped a brick would not blow!) He routed a thin(ish) black fibre cable from the ONT taking it outside round the rear of the house, over the flat roof of my garage and round to the external junction box at the front. That was about 20m of the black cable. He said they can route up to 50m outside. That is the route I wanted and he was very cooperative in doing it exactly as I wanted.
Then came the attempt to connect the external junction box from the front of my house to the fibre network in the street. The present copper cable runs through a duct under my garden to the public tarmac footpath in the street, about 6 metres. There he encountered a blockage. As a matter of interest (at least to me), he tracked exactly where my copper cable is routed underground by using a clever detector device that makes a noise when it gets an electromagnetic signal from the copper cable. The signal was fed into the cable by disconnecting it from my network and connecting his special generator to it. I think he called the setup a "cap and genny" - might have been "cat and genny".
There is a fibre box (big covered manhole) about 20m along the footpath. He put rods from there along toward my house and found a blockage after about 10m.
It seems that the copper connection through my 6m duct goes to the copper FTTC cable in the footpath underground with no openable access and simply tarmac covered. So he has put in an order for "Civils" to come and dig up the footpath for the 10m or so between the two blockages and put a duct in that trench (and hopefully a nice little cover at my end so they can maintain if necessary, without digging up all over again).
He said that Civils will put fibre through my garden duct from the footpath end and coil it up outside my house. The Openreach telecom guys will then have to return to connect that new fibre cable to the external junction box. He thinks that should take 2 to 4 weeks.
Since the fibre cable between the external junction box and the internal ONT is connected and the ONT is now connected to power (from my UPS), the telecom guys will be able to test that the network connection is successful (when they have completed it), without needing to have my router connected. Well, so he says but I am not very convinced. I will believe it works when it works!
Meanwhile, my FTTC is working fine as the copper is still connected.
I will update when something happens.
Thanks for the detailed progress report. Would obviously hope it gets done in reasonable time.
I'm such a wuss I keep putting off filling in the form to get the ball rolling with Andrews and Arnold and their FTTP and VOIP contract.
Thanks for the update, armadillo.
Your installation seems to have got a lot further than mine, as the guys who came out to me gave up as soon as they found the blockage without installing anything, and that's still the situation now, so I remain totally at square one.
When I was talking to one of the guys about the drilling, he also said it's possible a brick could 'blow'. That actually sounds quite alarming! So, what happens in that event? Is the brick repairable or will they have to start rebuilding my outside wall?! :eek4:
I would also like them to install the external box where the current FTTC / Phone cable comes in to the property, as it would then be in an external cupboard, offering some protection from the weather, etc, but the last guys that came were talking about installing it on the front of the property underneath the window where the drilling will go, so as to avoid long running cables.
I think I'm going to have to get IDNet to chase them again because they haven't come back to me in a couple of weeks now, and the last I heard was that they were coming to dig up the grass so as to install a new duct.
Quote from: Simon on Mar 19, 2024, 11:58:37
When I was talking to one of the guys about the drilling, he also said it's possible a brick could 'blow'. That actually sounds quite alarming! So, what happens in that event? Is the brick repairable or will they have to start rebuilding my outside wall?! :eek4:
It just means there's a possibility of leaving a crater around the exit hole which is why it's best to drill from the outside in. It's easy enough to repair on the inside and all but impossible on the outside. If he knows what he's doing he won't use the hammer setting on the way in or the way out, just through the middle. That minimises the risk by quite some margin.
They drilled from the inside over the road at my neighbours. it spalled out a treat. He complained and they offered him £250 to get it repaired. He accepted and bought a slate sign and screwed it over the misplaced and badly drilled hole and associated damage. He would never have got an invisible repair. The bricks aren't available an the pointing wouldn't have matched.
And, don't forget, they drilleed through his central heatring water pipe and had to get civils to dig up the pavemen due to a blockage too. Not a lot of profit in that job.
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Mar 19, 2024, 14:52:59
It just means there's a possibility of leaving a crater around the exit hole which is why it's best to drill from the outside in. It's easy enough to repair on the inside and all but impossible on the outside. If he knows what he's doing he won't use the hammer setting on the way in or the way out, just through the middle. That minimises the risk by quite some margin.
I've been reading up a bit about this, and I've seen comments that suggest holding some sort of thick board over the potential exit hole on the internal plasterboard, when drilling from the outside in, can minimise damage to internal plaster?
Of course, I suppose the best method would be to drill from both sides and meet in the middle, but I guess that would require some sort of x-ray vision on the part of the OR engineer.
I did purchase a Bosch device which is meant to detect plumbing and electrical wiring inside wall cavities - but then I also read that the OR guys carry these. One concern is that the external wall they will be drilling through has a radiator on the inside of it, and I've no idea where the pipework is situated.
Quote from: Simon on Mar 19, 2024, 17:16:26
I've been reading up a bit about this, and I've seen comments that suggest holding some sort of thick board over the potential exit hole on the internal plasterboard, when drilling from the outside in, can minimise damage to internal plaster?
Of course, I suppose the best method would be to drill from both sides and meet in the middle, but I guess that would require some sort of x-ray vision on the part of the OR engineer.
If the internal wall is plasterboard there really shouldn't be an issue. That said it would be easy enough to drill a small pilot hole from the outside and then finish it off from the inside with the bigger gauge drill bit.
I've drilled multiple holes of all sizes through brick walls and never had an issue. It really comes down to knowing when to hammer or more importantly, when not to.
Hopefully they'll know what they're doing.
From what I've seen it's Sky 'engineers' who cause the most damage. They always seem to drill inside out.
Quote from: Simon on Mar 19, 2024, 11:58:37
I would also like them to install the external box where the current FTTC / Phone cable comes in to the property, as it would then be in an external cupboard, offering some protection from the weather, etc, but the last guys that came were talking about installing it on the front of the property underneath the window where the drilling will go, so as to avoid long running cables.
My feeling is that I would rather have a long fibre cable routed round the outside of the property than a long ethernet cable routed inside. Certainly, that is why I had Openreach go over the garage roof and round. They said it is ok to route up to 50m of fibre outside. Anyway, fibre is not lossy and not subject to interference as far as I am aware. The only drawback with the outside routing is vandalism if some idiot decides it would be fun to cut it. Fortunately, I live in a very safe area.
Quote from: armadillo on Mar 19, 2024, 22:34:29
My feeling is that I would rather have a long fibre cable routed round the outside of the property than a long ethernet cable routed inside. Certainly, that is why I had Openreach go over the garage roof and round. They said it is ok to route up to 50m of fibre outside. Anyway, fibre is not lossy and not subject to interference as far as I am aware. The only drawback with the outside routing is vandalism if some idiot decides it would be fun to cut it. Fortunately, I live in a very safe area.
Yeah, I live in a pretty safe area too, but there's idiots everywhere. It's just the weather, really, but I guess these boxes are built to withstand the elements.
I've been thinking it's perhaps not essential to have the internal box in the exact location where my current router is, as I already have a Mesh WiFi system set up, so really the router could go anywhere within reason.
My only issue is that my main desktop PC is not WiFi, but I believe I can connect one of the Mesh units to the PC via ethernet,.so that would solve that problem.
Somebody tell me if this is mad, please, but I've just got all these thoughts running through my head (probably overthinking it).
So, I live in what posh people call a coach house flat, which normal people call a flat over garages. It's single story and semi-detached. As I've previously mentioned, I've got this lockable cupboard below, which houses the existing phone connection, TV aerial (on a communal system), electric and gas meters, and provides a bit of storage space. If I had the external box fitted in there, what if I also had the internal box fitted in there as well, and then used my existing powerline Mesh system to get WiFi up into the flat? Would that work? Would I lose significant speed on the broadband by doing this? It would certainly save a lot of cabling, and they wouldn't need to drill through a wall.
The internal box needs to be power and I assume it would be the same for the mesh? I don't know enough about mesh systems to comment but personally I would always want at least one device on a cable.
Yes, I'd imagine having the option to plug a device in would/could be really useful.
Have to say, it's real shame someone hasn't set up an explainer website where all this is gone into in nerdy (but helpful) detail.
There is a power point in the cupboard. The wired connection would be from the router to the Mesh 'base' station, which would be in the same cupboard. This would then, technically, feed the other Mesh devices upstairs via the power lines. This is what I have at the moment:
https://amzn.eu/d/9LSFUDI
I'd have to get an add-on 'station', as I've only got two at the moment and one of them would need to be downstairs with the router, but that shouldn't be an issue.
The only thing is, if it didn't work well, what would it cost to have them come back and reinstall it by drilling holes? :-\
Actually, I've just realised why that method wouldn't work. I'll need the router upstairs for when I move to VoIP as the phone will need to connect to it. As you were... :facepalm:
It's OK, we won't say anything, Simon. :-X
Quote from: peasblossom on Mar 20, 2024, 08:51:31
Have to say, it's real shame someone hasn't set up an explainer website where all this is gone into in nerdy (but helpful) detail.
I'd guess that might be difficult as every installation is different.
Quote from: peasblossom on Mar 20, 2024, 13:19:47
It's OK, we won't say anything, Simon. :-X
:red:
Sure, not every installation will be the same but it could cover what they can do so you get a feel for the possibilities.
Theoretically you could run powerline from ONT to the router, as it's just standard Ethernet, but I would not recommend it. Powerline stuff is rather fickle about mains wiring.
Quote from: nowster on Mar 21, 2024, 13:10:10
Theoretically you could run powerline from ONT to the router, as it's just standard Ethernet, but I would not recommend it. Powerline stuff is rather fickle about mains wiring.
Yes, I know someone in a big old house who was trying to run a powerline from one floor to another, and after days of fiddling about it turned out the floors were on different electrical circuits, so the powerlines wouldn't work.
I'm fairly sure all my wiring is on the same circuit, as last year I had a problem with an oven that kept blowing the RCD, and it always took all the plugs out.
Quote from: peasblossom on Mar 20, 2024, 08:51:31Have to say, it's real shame someone hasn't set up an explainer website where all this is gone into in nerdy (but helpful) detail.
Like this guide from EE - https://ee.co.uk/help/broadband/getting-started/full-fibre-installation (https://ee.co.uk/help/broadband/getting-started/full-fibre-installation)
Quote from: Postal on Mar 22, 2024, 09:03:46
Like this guide from EE - https://ee.co.uk/help/broadband/getting-started/full-fibre-installation (https://ee.co.uk/help/broadband/getting-started/full-fibre-installation)
That, of course, is working on the assumption that all goes to plan without any dramas.
Quote from: Postal on Mar 22, 2024, 09:03:46
Like this guide from EE - https://ee.co.uk/help/broadband/getting-started/full-fibre-installation (https://ee.co.uk/help/broadband/getting-started/full-fibre-installation)
Not nerdy enough. It doesn't account for different types of houses and, as Simon says, it assume everything runs smoothly. I'd be looking for an independent guide.
Quote from: peasblossom on Mar 22, 2024, 22:49:52
Not nerdy enough. It doesn't account for different types of houses and, as Simon says, it assume everything runs smoothly. I'd be looking for an independent guide.
That seems like you want someone to put together the answers to a whole page of "how long is that piece of string" questions - welcome to anyone who manages to hit the right level of detail to satisfy that sort of request.
I finally have a date for the duct work - 4th April. But they've said for some reason they want to do it 'out of hours', which, according to IDNet, could be 6am-8am, or 6pm-9pm.
I've asked for further clarification as I don't think it's acceptable or reasonable for them to come and start digging and drilling at 6 in the morning. I want to be around to observe what they're doing and where they're routing the cables, but I'm buggered if I'm getting up that early!
If it's at all noisy (which I'm guessing it could easily be) 6am-8am to start a job like this is anti social for any neighbours too.
Yes, there is that too. Isn't there some sort of legal restriction as to when noisy works can be carried out?
Quote from: Simon on Mar 29, 2024, 12:05:30
Isn't there some sort of legal restriction as to when noisy works can be carried out?
That falls under the 1974 Pollution Control Act which states building and construction work is limited Monday to Friday 8am – 6pm and Saturdays 8am – 1pm. I had cause to look it up a couple of months ago when the waterboard decided to dig up the pavement outside our driveway in the middle of the night.
I guess an emergency situation would be classed as exempt, but I don't call my situation an emergency. They've only got to dig up a bit of lawn, and it's not going to interfere with anybody else. I think they might be worried about partially blocking access to the driveway, but there's another entrance that people can go in and out of, so even that shouldn't be a problem.
I'm not sure if I would describe it as an emergency situation, more payback because I stopped them digging a trench across our property which is a long story for another time.
I've got to be honest, part of me wishes I'd never started this. I could have happily stayed on FTTC for years yet, and just switched the phone to VoIP when the time came. It seems a big upheaval, and what's going to happen in a few years when something else new comes along? I'm pretty sure they'll find a better way of installing this further down the road.
I guess on the positive side at least you're not going to end up having to live with a forest of tar covered telegraph poles and overhead cables.
This is the most useful description I've come across thus far. Be prepared to bat away cookies and newsletter subscription windows to read it. Worth it though.
https://www.moneysupermarket.com/news/heres-what-happened-when-i-had-full-fibre-broadband-installed/
Quote from: peasblossom on Apr 06, 2024, 22:02:17
This is the most useful description I've come across thus far. Be prepared to bat away cookies and newsletter subscription windows to read it. Worth it though.
https://www.moneysupermarket.com/news/heres-what-happened-when-i-had-full-fibre-broadband-installed/
A couple of things that really stood out, one good, another not so good.
The good: '
so I nabbed a 150Mbps package for £19.99 per month...'
The not so good: Take a look at the incoming cable. I wouldn't be happy if anyone drilled a hole through my uPVC frame and you can clearly see there's no cable clamp inside or out.
Thanks for that, PB. Again, that's an installation that seems to have gone without a hitch, as the Fibre network was already installed on the estate. I'm guessing it was probably a fairly new build property.
One thing I didn't like from those pictures was that he'd appeared to have drilled though a corner of a PVC window or door frame. Not only does the hole look tatty and unsealed, it also looks significantly bigger than the cable. Also, having just had new windows fitted in my place, I'll be buggered if I'm going to let anyone drill through them!
I confess that was a big no no for me too. Brickwork yes. uPVC window frame? Never. Ever.
A development! Well, kind of.
Another pair of guys have just been out, to reassess for tomorrow's dig. In fact, they seem to have managed to get further than the other guys and have said the 'blockage' is probably just congestion and getting around a T point in the existing ducting. So, I'm hoping they won't have to dig up the lawn after all.
Further, the guy said they could probably fit some sort of data gizmo to the existing wiring in the outside cupboard downstairs, as apparently there is already Gigabit data cabling there. This would then feed to a gizmo upstairs and there wouldn't be any need for drilling through. In theory.
I asked if that's what they could definitely do, and he said it depends who comes out to do the internal stuff. But I've got this guy's phone number so he said to call him if there's a problem and he would advise the internal installers.
:fingers: , Simon.
Well, they came, they saw, and after seven hours of digging up first the pavement, then the driveway, then the lawn, they finally conquered and I have a fibre cable where I wanted it in the downstairs back cupboard.
All that remains now is for the next lot to come out and fit the ONT, and then somehow get the connection upstairs into the flat.
🎉 🎉Tentative celebration, Simon. What a saga this has been.
Well done Simon, your patience has paid off! These FTTP people are a determined breed and I'm sure it will be up and running within days. Make sure you get the names and contact details of the installers if you can.
Just a quick further update - another guy came out just now to check the cable installation, and has signed it off for the next stage.
We discussed the internal install, and I've got to buy an Ethernet faceplate and ends off Amazon, so that the engineer can convert one of my upstairs phone sockets into an Ethernet port, which will then connect to the box downstairs. I can connect the new router to the new Ethernet port and thus hopefully avoid any necessity for drilling holes.
The only issue is, I will lose the copper phone terminal for that room upstairs, but as I have two other copper phone sockets, hopefully they will both still work and it will just mean having the DECT base in another room, until I switch to VoIP.
I'm now in two minds as to whether to just go all in and swap to VoIP now, so I've asked IDNet how long it would actually take to swap over to their UBOSS service.
All of the above is dependant on a competent engineer showing up to do the internal job. Apparently, some of them are purely fibre installers and haven't worked with copper.
Quote from: Simon on Apr 16, 2024, 19:18:54
and I've got to buy an Ethernet faceplate and ends off Amazon, so that the engineer can convert one of my upstairs phone sockets into an Ethernet port, which will then connect to the box downstairs.
I assume that means running a new cable?
Apparently not. It seems there is already a gigabit cable present, as confirmed by two different OR engineers, so my understanding is they will fit one of the RJ45 'ends' to the existing cable downstairs, and the ONT will connect to that. The new faceplate then replaces my current telephone faceplate upstairs, which will connect to the ONT downstairs, and the router will then connect to the new faceplate, forming the link to the ONT. So, basically, if all goes to plan, they'll be using the internal cabling, thus negating the need for any drilling.
What makes me a little skeptical is the question as to why the property would have been equipped with gigabit wiring when it was built 20 years ago. Was gigabit even a thing then?
Quote from: Simon on Apr 17, 2024, 01:08:37
Was gigabit even a thing then?
Just about. I think Gigabit Ethernet became mainstream around 20+ years ago.
The internal work has been confirmed for this Friday. :wimp:
Sending you positive vibes, Simon. Maybe some for OR too, in the hope that it goes smoothly.
I've since had automated phone messages saying it had been changed to Monday and then another one saying it had been put back to Friday. I'm trying to get IDNet to clarify when exactly they are coming. :facepalm:
When I think of OpenReach this tune is always playing along in the background...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zcq_xLi2NGo
Quite! It's been confirmed for Friday... for now.
It's been nice knowing you all... :facepalm:
We're there! :yeay: :yeay: :yeay: :clap1: :clap1: :clap1:
The guy arrived around 8:15am, and I thought there was going to be a problem as despite all the notes being sent through about requiring a copper trained installer, he wasn't, and really didn't have a clue about connecting the Fibre to the existing gigabit wiring.
So, I grumbled a bit, not that it was his fault, then he made some phone calls (and I spoke to one of the previous guys who'd been out), and after about half an hour, another engineer turned up who was copper trained, and has managed to wire things up as I wanted.
So, now I have Full Fibre up and running at an average of about 107Mbps on Speedtest.net, and I still have my old copper landline working for the time being. All the wiring was internal, so NO DRILLING!! :D :D
Somebody must have put in Cat5 cabling in the past. (Cat5 can just do 1000BaseT.)
One thing I've noticed is that the TP-Link VX230v router seems to be putting out WiFi 6, but speeds with that are slower than on 'normal' WiFi. Is this normal? I've turned off the WiFi on the router as it's better through my existing TP-Link mesh system.
It's probably using a frequency that's already being used locally, or using the older system forces it to use a more robust 2.4GHz signal.
In my experience 5GHz and higher are only truly reliable in the same room as the router (depending on what your walls are made of).
So, I'm not losing out by not using WiFi 6 then?
:dance: :dance: :clap1: :clap1: :congrats: Simon.
Quote from: peasblossom on Apr 19, 2024, 18:14:45
:dance: :dance: :clap1: :clap1: :congrats: Simon.
Thank you! If nothing else, this thread will be an experience to look back on! :laugh:
I fallowd this thread with interest as we were migrating to cut the telephone costs. One disappointment I have found is IDNet is now using the misleading speed estimates in there claims. I went for a 550 up and 550 down. Only to be told there is no speed guarantee with the up (I get under 100Mb) with a 200 guarantee for the down (not a very good one but as I am getting nearly 600 I can't complain at that). Its a disappointment that this old rather misspelling is still going on and even more that its IDNet doing it or must be knowingly passing on the speed misinformation (I have been told others using different providers going through the same fiber firm get the same disparity as I am getting so it must be known to be an unlikely up speed to all the firms selling the products).
Is it even possible to get 550 upload speed?
Just a quick update on mine - all seems stable and I'm getting an average of 107/22 on a 115/20 connection, so that's not bad.
I also apparently have incredibly low latency, at a steady 5ms.
Quote from: Simon on Apr 30, 2024, 18:14:09
Is it even possible to get 550 upload speed?
I have no idea (on this sort of product) if it is but clearly its not expected given there is no minimum speed given. I thought these over hyped speed claims had been clamped down on by Ofcom but clearly there are gaping loop holes left showing the regulators are doing there job of protecting the industry not users as usual.
:congrat4: Simon in joining the Fast Club. :thumb:
Quote from: john7 on May 01, 2024, 09:16:45
I have no idea (on this sort of product) if it is but clearly its not expected given there is no minimum speed given. I thought these over hyped speed claims had been clamped down on by Ofcom but clearly there are gaping loop holes left showing the regulators are doing there job of protecting the industry not users as usual.
I think there may be some confusion, John. The packages IDNet offer are:
FTTP 55/10upto 55 Mbit/s Downstream
upto 10 Mbit/s Upstream
FTTP 160/30upto 160 Mbit/s Downstream
upto 30 Mbit/s Upstream
FTTP 330/50upto 300 Mbit/s Downstream
upto 50 Mbit/s Upstream
FTTP 1000/115upto 900 Mbit/s Downstream
upto 115 Mbit/s Upstream
What package did you actually order?
Quote from: Clive on May 01, 2024, 10:50:27
:congrat4: Simon in joining the Fast Club. :thumb:
;D
They're digging up the road again nearby - another fibre company laying more cables. They'd better not mess mine up! :eyebrow:
What package did you actually order?
[/quote]
Fiber Heroes 550 up and down no confusion as most non BT supplied fiber is both much faster and cheaper than BTs. There are so many of them I expect as with what started as many cable TV firms/providers which moved to cable internet, TV and phones and were all taken over in the end by Virgin
Apologies John, I had no idea about IDNet partnering with Fibre Heroes. The only option I had with them was to go with Openreach, which seems to be a different set of packages.
Well, every day is a school day! It seems IDNet offer several different packages with different suppliers:
Fibre Heroes: https://www.idnet.com/fibreheroes-broadband.php
City Fibre: https://www.idnet.com/cityfibre-broadband.php
Openreach: https://www.idnet.com/openreach-broadband.php
And this appears to be a full list of pricing:
https://www.idnet.com/broadband-pricelist.php
:stars:
It would be interesting to know what the actual speeds users actually get. The impression I have with locally from comments Fiber Heroes (in local fourms) is though there speeds are better than BT no one gets the claimed upspeed. That appears to be the case whatever is the ISP. I find it unlikly any of the sellers of there products don't know this but all are passing on the over hyped upspeed claims including IDNet. Personally even knowing the actual speeds I would still use them. Non of which really fits in with the Ofcom saying customers should have honest expected speeds.
As I said before, I'm getting an average of 107/22 on a 115/20 connection, so that's pretty much as promised for my package.
Indeed, it is the new comers hyping there products which are usually even in reality much faster and cheaper than the BT ones.
My parents are on the 55/10 product and it's reliably given that.
If OpenReach actually served my home address I'd get FTTP there instead of Virgin.
Sadly, whilst the altnet that seems to be going in is using NetOmnia for backhaul in reality it's building a 300Mbps max wireless-based final hop system... and they've taken about 18 months to do the build so far and are nowhere near completion.
For reference I'm on an UltraFast 100 (FTTP 115/20) package and get 109.23/19.33. Even though I've only be on it for 6 months it appears to be a legacy package judging by what's listed as available on IDNet's site. So I get what I pay for and the connection is pretty robust. The early morning disconnects appeared to have stopped at long last. My only real concern is the cost.
Quote from: Simon on May 01, 2024, 21:05:49
As I said before, I'm getting an average of 107/22 on a 115/20 connection, so that's pretty much as promised for my package.
I'm really surprised at such a low speed as the minimum I can get is 150. For another fiver I can get 300. Maximum is 1000 but I doubt I shall ever need that.
It's perfectly adequate for me, Clive. I downloaded a 6Gb file in around 8 minutes the other night. I've no need to spend more to get higher speeds.
I feel compelled to double up to 300 when my renewal comes up. Although I don't know why. :red:
My main thing was up speed my son and I backup to each others networks each night but the main thing was loading photos on line used to take forever. I now can load a days images in a short time rather than having one (or two) cups of coffee. My regular speeds are 650 down and180 up. This was said to be 550 up and down so not perfect up but one hell of a lot better than the 10 before! Oddly I can see another IDNet user in my town is getting 450 both up and down on the thinkbroadband results page so its possible!
My installation (Ultrafast 330 FTTP 330/50) is now complete.
Digging up the pavement did not disconnect my copper prematurely and it cleared the fibre blockage so they could pull fibre through my duct under the front garden.
Openreach scheduled and cancelled the appointment several times for the engineer to come and connect the fibre to the external box. Eventually, they arrived without an appointment and without warning.
But they were very helpful and made the connection.
They were dubious about whether my existing router (which I have had for 10 years) would work but it does.
All I had to do to transfer it from FTTC to FTTP was alter the login user and password. It picked everything else up automatically.
To summarise, the external fibre cable goes from the front of the house, over my garage roof, round the back and into my home office (ground floor).
My router connects there and the PC connects to the router via ethernet cable.
At the PC, I get 313mbps down and 52 up.
Quote from: armadillo on May 03, 2024, 18:45:31
My installation (Ultrafast 330 FTTP 330/50) is now complete.
Digging up the pavement did not disconnect my copper prematurely and it cleared the fibre blockage so they could pull fibre through my duct under the front garden.
Openreach scheduled and cancelled the appointment several times for the engineer to come and connect the fibre to the external box. Eventually, they arrived without an appointment and without warning.
But they were very helpful and made the connection.
They were dubious about whether my existing router (which I have had for 10 years) would work but it does.
All I had to do to transfer it from FTTC to FTTP was alter the login user and password. It picked everything else up automatically.
To summarise, the external fibre cable goes from the front of the house, over my garage roof, round the back and into my home office (ground floor).
My router connects there and the PC connects to the router via ethernet cable.
At the PC, I get 313mbps down and 52 up.
When was the last time your router had a firmware update? A router is old at 5 years, and if it no longer gets security updates its putting your LAN at risk. Just a thought glad you got your fibre installed okay :) Our village does not look like its ever getting Fibre so the idea to use 5G speeds is probably my only choice and one that I'm not keen on.
Quote from: Gary on May 07, 2024, 11:39:06
When was the last time your router had a firmware update? A router is old at 5 years, and if it no longer gets security updates its putting your LAN at risk. Just a thought glad you got your fibre installed okay :) Our village does not look like its ever getting Fibre so the idea to use 5G speeds is probably my only choice and one that I'm not keen on.
I don't remember when I last updated its firmware. I tend to avoid updates as I prefer to take the risk of a security failure rather than the risk of the firmware update turning it into a brick.
I sympathise with you on the unlikely installation of fibre in your village. I have a friend who lives in a village also unlikely ever to get fibre as it is several miles from an exchange...and it has no mobile signal. She gets a download of around 2Mbps.
Quote from: armadillo on May 07, 2024, 23:54:42
I have a friend who lives in a village also unlikely ever to get fibre as it is several miles from an exchange...
That distance isn't a problem with fibre. My parents used to get 4Mbps on ADSL on a good day as the run from the exchange is about 4 miles. They now have rock solid 55/10 FTTP with the ability to order the 900Mbps service.
Perhaps a little bit of explanation about the FTTP supply might be helpful. The roll-out of FTTP is an ongoing process and even at the end of the roll-out there will still be some properties not connected to fibre. The government have defined a USO (Universal Service Obligation) - https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8146/ (https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8146/) - which stipulates 10Mbps download and 1Mbps upload as the minimum acceptable connection at a cost of £45 per month or less. The USO can be discharged by any means so that a mobile telephone signal or Starlink-type connection would be as acceptable as a ground based service. If the area is not in the BT plan but an altnet supplier serves the area that then discharges the USO. There is an excess charge get-out clause but for most people currently tied to things like a 4Mbps download then a faster connection in some form will be coming in the not too distant future.
In regard to BT connections (which includes all of the ISPs who buy capacity at wholesale from BT) the FTTP supply has no relation to the existing telephone exchange map. There are fewer nodes for the FTTP system than there are for the old telephone-line connections with the fibre being supplied from head-end exchanges covering the area of a number of smaller, subordinate exchanges. Where premises are supplied with FTTC through their existing phone line (sold by the ISPs with the weasel-word "fibre") then the fibre from the head-end exchange is already in existence and runs to the cabinet supplying the property. The additional work required is to run fibre in parallel to the copper wire from the existing cabinet site to each of the premises served. Altnets each have there own system with their own fibres installed from a node where the altnet has access to the internet spine through switches and splitters to each of the premises they serve running alongside any BT installation. The farcical result of that is that in the areas where there is competition an ONT (Optic Network Termination) - the equivalent of the telephone master socket - needs to be supplied to each of the premises for each of the networks when that service is installed. These are the demarcation point of the network and are the property of the network so cannot be removed unilaterally by the premises owner. People switching networks and suppliers could end up with two or three ONTs on their internal wall.
In summary, even people who are a long way from any exchange and suffering low speeds have a right to be connected with a guarantee of 10Mbps download and 1Mbps upload. If there are no published plans to achieve that connection they should use the USO process to start things moving.
I think I have sorted my poor upspeed I changed the MTU to 1492 and up and down are now over 500Mb. Why something are crucial like that isn't in the setup information is beyond me.
Glad you got it sorted, John.
Quote from: john7 on May 08, 2024, 14:02:06
I think I have sorted my poor upspeed I changed the MTU to 1492 and up and down are now over 500Mb. Why something are crucial like that isn't in the setup information is beyond me.
The PPPoE connection needs to have an MTU of 1492 to allow for encapsulation overhead within the 1500 byte Ethernet frames. Most kit/software does this automatically.
My router was just switched from the existing connection to the new one and it clearly needed changing.
Quote from: Postal on May 08, 2024, 09:56:58
Perhaps a little bit of explanation.....
Brilliant post! Thank you for a clear and comprehensive explanation. I did not realise that the FTTP supply was so independent of the current exchange map.
Are the head-end exchanges separate from and different from the old telephone exchanges?
I suppose that the problem for people in villages like my friend's is that there are very few residents there and no existing fibre service at all. So there is a lot of cost and little profit for any provider in creating infrastructure.
The USO aspect is interesting. My friend is a technophobe, I might even say techno-hostile, so the USO process would have to depend on initiation by a more techno-receptive member of the village if there are any.
Quote from: nowster on May 08, 2024, 00:13:48
That distance isn't a problem with fibre. My parents used to get 4Mbps on ADSL on a good day as the run from the exchange is about 4 miles. They now have rock solid 55/10 FTTP with the ability to order the 900Mbps service.
That is rather amazing - in a good way!
Quote from: armadillo on May 10, 2024, 20:56:49Are the head-end exchanges separate from and different from the old telephone exchanges?
As an amateur in these matters who has picked up what knowledge I have from various groups and forums (fora the pedantic) around the internet, AFAIK the head-end exchanges are normally existing exchanges as they already have most of the kit required. There will be a lot of space in those buildings once the exiting copper-based infrastructure is no longer required so there may well be a business decision to move to different premises once the copper is done but that is many years away yet.
Quote from: Postal on May 11, 2024, 09:13:24
As an amateur in these matters who has picked up what knowledge I have from various groups and forums (fora the pedantic) around the internet, AFAIK the head-end exchanges are normally existing exchanges as they already have most of the kit required. There will be a lot of space in those buildings once the exiting copper-based infrastructure is no longer required so there may well be a business decision to move to different premises once the copper is done but that is many years away yet.
Shouldn't that be fora
for the pedantic? ;) ;D
Quote from: Simon on May 11, 2024, 10:54:22
Shouldn't that be fora for the pedantic? ;) ;D
Like it.
Quote from: Simon on May 11, 2024, 10:54:22
Shouldn't that be fora for the pedantic? ;) ;D
I've seen quite a bit of
argumentdiscussion about this over the years- many say that if you're speaking Latin then the plural of
forum is
fora, if you're using English it's
forums.
I'm inclined to agree ;D
Quote from: Postal on May 11, 2024, 09:13:24
...AFAIK the head-end exchanges are normally existing exchanges as they already have most of the kit required. There will be a lot of space in those buildings once the exiting copper-based infrastructure is no longer required so there may well be a business decision to move to different premises once the copper is done but that is many years away yet.
That makes good sense. My local exchange is a decent brick building on a small industrial estate so I cannot see that they would move the head-end exchange anywhere else. I can imagine they might reconsider if an exchange were in a high-business-rate area though.