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Technical News & Discussion => IDNet Help => Topic started by: andrue on Oct 22, 2013, 17:56:30

Title: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: andrue on Oct 22, 2013, 17:56:30
I just thought I'd run a couple of speed tests and I'm getting some dodgy results especially from multi-threading:

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/138246430722222068905.png)

Ignore the initial peak that's pre-existing from Kaspersky AV.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: zappaDPJ on Oct 22, 2013, 18:26:54
No problems here. In fact I've just recorded my best ever result for this line.

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/3050146026.png) (http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3050146026)

A local issue perhaps?
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Kobe on Oct 22, 2013, 21:29:35
Ping of 6ms! Dear me  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: zappaDPJ on Oct 22, 2013, 21:32:56
That's actually quite unusual, it's normally 7ms  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: lozcart on Oct 22, 2013, 21:38:48
It's people watching the Apple event and then downloading subsequent operating system updates  ;)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Steve on Oct 22, 2013, 21:39:55
Trying to download  ;D 200mb to go
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: mervl on Oct 22, 2013, 21:56:36
 I usually find the multi-threading test on my line gives between a quarter and a half the speed of the "normal" TBB test. No idea why. I've decided speedtests are for entertainment purposes only  8-).
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Reya on Oct 22, 2013, 22:38:12
Mine's been awful tonight. Packet loss since about 8pm-ish, and this page just took roughly four minutes to load! Pings and traceroutes seem fine, but my TBBQM looks like this:

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/5631a902237a275c30ecc2626bfab70e-22-10-2013.png)

I might call Support tomorrow, since my minimum latency dropped to 20ms two days ago after I'd unplugged the router for the duration of a thunderstorm, and I've had intermittent packet loss since then. Before that, my minimum latency was about 30ms and not a single blip of packet loss for weeks. As soon as that latency drops = packet loss. I'm thinking this could be interleaving going on and off? The last time this happened (again, after unplugging during a thunderstorm) I had to endure 10 days of packet loss before everything went kaput for 5 minutes (100% loss). When it came back up, average latency was 30ms again (interleaving switched back on?)

If it is interleaving, then I'm not sure if it's possible to get that set permanently at the exchange, or not. All I know is that, when my minimum latency is 30ms, I have no packet loss issues whatsoever!

Editing to add a speed test, just carried out. My connection is supposed to be 8Mbps:

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/138248153805850523093-mini.png)

*muttergrumbles as she heads for bed*

Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: mervl on Oct 22, 2013, 22:52:55
I'm getting a similar sort of packet loss tonight (on London Stepney Green PoP), but with no other symptoms (yet).
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: jane on Oct 22, 2013, 23:27:27
Same packet loss here (Cornwall). My graph is almost identical to Reya's.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: zappaDPJ on Oct 23, 2013, 00:03:11
From what I can see everyone on an IDNet connection (ADSL and FTTC) had the same.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Simon on Oct 23, 2013, 11:32:42
Have to say, I didn't notice any issues, but admittedly, wasn't doing much online last night.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: psp83 on Oct 23, 2013, 11:46:44
I noticed the packet loss but didn't really use my connection much.

Like I notice there's packet loss again today (TBB graph in my sig)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Bill on Oct 23, 2013, 12:32:38
Last night was no doubt Mavericks' fault, but no obvious reason for today's... unless everyone is streaming a christening :dunno:

LONAP traffic (http://www.lonap.net/mrtg/lonap-total.html)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Adrian on Oct 23, 2013, 12:46:23
Still lousy here

Sorry, can't get TBB quality graph to show up here, here's a Traceroute instead.

1. 192.168.1.254                                                                                           0.0%    13    0.5   0.5   0.4   0.6   0.1
2. telehouse-gw4-lo1.idnet.net                                                                             0.0%    13  251.0 290.3 118.7 419.2  87.3
3. 212.69.63.184                                                                                           0.0%    13  243.9 283.9 205.6 396.7  65.0
4. redbus-gw5-gi2-1276.idnet.net                                                                           0.0%    13  241.8 275.4 172.9 428.2  87.7
5. redbus-gw1-gi5-0-301.idnet.net                                                                          0.0%    12  252.8 266.2  84.8 415.3 108.3
6. www.idnet.net                                                                                           0.0%    12  244.7 264.1  21.8 418.7 113.0
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: JamesAllen on Oct 23, 2013, 15:09:47
Ah so it's not just me. Was noticing awful problems with YouTube 720p streaming so did a speed test and getting between 2mb and 5mb whereas it should be blasting up over 12mb.

Just checked the ping monitor:

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-large/e3ecd9e19f94e31470831acfdbbb1623-23-10-2013.png)

Nasty. I was lucky last night that I only started online gaming past 11pm. Hope this get's fixed soon or tonight's session will be off.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Adrian on Oct 23, 2013, 15:25:29
Mine is MUCH prettier.

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-large/741c2868ef6d0f07601ae6ce28719fc4-23-10-2013.png)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Reya on Oct 23, 2013, 15:31:51
I've only just got online, but even without my computer being switched on I've had packet loss all morning until now (and likely to continue *sigh*) -

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/7b721b0cc187479ae9014987bdfdc17d-23-10-2013.png)

Adrian's graph wins the internet, though. That is, if he can get the internet to work  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 23, 2013, 15:37:20
I seem to have lost 40Mbps on my download but upload is ok  :rant2: not what I needed.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: brian_idnet on Oct 23, 2013, 15:42:01
Hi,

We have done some investigation across our network and cannot see anything causing the issue. We suspect this may be some busy peering links due to the latest Apple software updates so should ease over the next day or so.

Kind regards,

Brian
IDNet
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Adrian on Oct 23, 2013, 15:45:25
It is working after a fashion, but it's probably more exciting watching the grass grow.
:laugh:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: JamesAllen on Oct 23, 2013, 15:58:22
Bloody Apple.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: syserr0r on Oct 23, 2013, 16:02:39
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/138254363719058335172.png)

FTTC, Typical speeds before today are 65Mb Down, 18Mb up.

Support are blaming saturated peer's due to the Apple Maverick Update/Event Livecasting and expect the issue to be resolved by tomorrow :fingers:.

Quote from: JamesAllen on Oct 23, 2013, 15:58:22
Bloody Apple.
Indeed :shake:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Reya on Oct 23, 2013, 16:04:29
Quote from: JamesAllen on Oct 23, 2013, 15:58:22
Bloody Apple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI)  :laugh:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: patc57 on Oct 23, 2013, 16:05:00
I've been seeing packet loss since last night also - but what stuck out to me was it was between my router and the first IDnet hop, almost as if the BT backhaul is having issues. There doesn't seem to be any problems on my line itself, the router is hardwired and hasn't been touched (aside from rebooted) after 2 years of solid service.

I'm on FTTC. Reported this to IDNet last night - said they would get back to me but haven't. The patterns your graphs show are exactly the same as the patterns I'm seeing. I've never seen this happen before.

Can I ask any of you who also are experiencing this issue to download WinMTR (http://winmtr.net/download-winmtr/ (http://winmtr.net/download-winmtr/)) and run a test that lasts at least 100 packets to www.idnet.net - the problem seems really intermittent, like it fades in and out every minute or so - 100 packets will give you an idea of where the packet loss is occurring. This is my result:

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                              FTTC-IDNET -    0 |  100 |  100 |    1 |    2 |    5 |    2 |
|             telehouse-gw2-lo1.idnet.net -    3 |   93 |   91 |   13 |   20 |   95 |   15 |
|                           212.69.63.247 -    4 |   89 |   86 |   13 |   17 |  103 |   14 |
|            redbus-gw2-gi3-331.idnet.net -    2 |   97 |   96 |   13 |   14 |   16 |   14 |
|          redbus-gw1-gi5-0-301.idnet.net -    5 |   85 |   81 |   13 |   14 |   16 |   16 |
|                           www.idnet.net -    4 |   89 |   86 |   13 |   14 |   16 |   15 |


I run a streaming service and administer many servers around the world so this is hurting a little for me.

For what it's worth I've got a second FTTC connection (to BT) served on the same incoming cable and cabinet which is absolutely fine.

Pat
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: zappaDPJ on Oct 23, 2013, 16:15:57
I've just got on-line and I'm getting intermittent time-outs on websites and some substantial packet loss. There's clearly a throughput issue as I can't get content rich sites to complete at all.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: sobranie on Oct 23, 2013, 16:16:21
Similar probs here (01326 in Cornwall).  Speed dropped from just under 75 to 2 an hour or so back. Have reported it to Nick at IDNet and hope they're able to spot the prob. soon.

Update: at 1620  speed now jumped up to nearly 4 ...... Whooppeeee!!!!!
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 23, 2013, 16:22:00
My friend on BT is having no issues but it depends I guess on what peering points they use.  :dunno: lost so much speed it's ludicrous. Around 50Mbps down has gone walkabouts. leaving me with 11Mbps ish
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: psp83 on Oct 23, 2013, 16:24:07
My normal connection is 62 down and 17 up..

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/3052207638.png) (http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3052207638)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: patc57 on Oct 23, 2013, 16:25:13
Rather than just blaming peering points, download WinMTR (http://winmtr.net/download-winmtr/ (http://winmtr.net/download-winmtr/)) - if on windows -and see for yourself where the problem is. I'm all for finding out it's my line which is specifically the issue, but at the moment there seems to be an issue with IDNet traffic reaching Telehouse. We can only tell if all of us run a decent test - preferably to an IDNet server like www.idnet.net so we can eliminate the wider Internet.

Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: patc57 on Oct 23, 2013, 16:29:18
Just to clarify - the levels of packet loss over a couple of minutes are relatively low - 3-5% but it can affect speed tests and rendering of sites etc. I'm seeing it manifest itself in problematic streaming which is a big pain for when I'm used to having a rock solid connection.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: psp83 on Oct 23, 2013, 16:31:37
Here you go patc57


|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                            home.gateway -    0 |  169 |  169 |    0 |    0 |    3 |    0 |
|             telehouse-gw4-lo1.idnet.net -    5 |  142 |  135 |   14 |   34 |  182 |   14 |
|                           212.69.63.247 -    6 |  138 |  130 |   13 |   14 |   66 |   14 |
|            redbus-gw2-gi3-331.idnet.net -    5 |  146 |  139 |   13 |   14 |   17 |   14 |
|          redbus-gw1-gi5-0-301.idnet.net -    6 |  138 |  130 |   14 |   14 |   18 |   14 |
|                           www.idnet.net -    5 |  149 |  143 |   13 |   14 |   17 |   15 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: patc57 on Oct 23, 2013, 16:33:26
@psp83 - Thank you, that absolutely verifies what I'm seeing.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: JamesAllen on Oct 23, 2013, 16:42:11
Quote from: Reya on Oct 23, 2013, 16:04:29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI)  :laugh:

Heh, quality ;)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: JamesAllen on Oct 23, 2013, 16:48:30
The WinMTR test, run for a few minutes.


|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                             192.168.0.3 -    0 |  141 |  141 |    0 |    0 |   12 |    0 |
|             telehouse-gw4-lo1.idnet.net -    4 |  125 |  121 |   33 |   41 |  121 |   35 |
|                           212.69.63.247 -    5 |  117 |  112 |    0 |   42 |   84 |   33 |
|            redbus-gw2-gi3-331.idnet.net -    3 |  129 |  126 |    0 |   42 |   78 |   42 |
|          redbus-gw1-gi5-0-301.idnet.net -    7 |  113 |  106 |    0 |   40 |   79 |   47 |
|                           www.idnet.net -    5 |  121 |  116 |    0 |   41 |   80 |   33 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: zappaDPJ on Oct 23, 2013, 16:53:03
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                             192.168.1.1 -    0 |  205 |  205 |    0 |    0 |    1 |    0 |
|             telehouse-gw4-lo1.idnet.net -   28 |   98 |   71 |    8 |   12 |  185 |    9 |
|                           212.69.63.184 -   30 |   94 |   66 |    8 |   10 |   91 |    8 |
|           redbus-gw5-gi2-1276.idnet.net -   28 |   98 |   71 |    8 |    8 |   10 |    8 |
|          redbus-gw1-gi5-0-301.idnet.net -   28 |   98 |   71 |    8 |    8 |    9 |    9 |
|                           www.idnet.net -   33 |   90 |   61 |    8 |    8 |   10 |    8 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: patc57 on Oct 23, 2013, 17:09:17
Thanks folks for running those tests. Sooooooo - IDNet? Any ideas? Seems we're all having trouble reaching YOU let alone the rest of the interwebs!
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Steve on Oct 23, 2013, 17:29:11
I dropped them an email as well with a redirection here.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: andrue on Oct 23, 2013, 17:35:09
Yah, lot of packet loss atm and speed tests results are poor. Ignore the spike at 6:30am - that's my timer power cycling my router.

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/466d151c734be8892ee1cc03a8049662-23-10-2013.png)

Worse than last night.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: mervl on Oct 23, 2013, 18:00:43
Yep have the same issue. Perhaps interestingly IDNet traffic has the delay reaching Telehouse running WinMTR to IDNet, but my second (non-IDNet) connection (which also uses BT Wholesale to reach the backhaul) doesn't.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: patc57 on Oct 23, 2013, 18:05:07
@mervl - I have the same set up (BT FTTC backup connection) and that is running smooth this whole time also. I'm glad this forum exists because I don't think the guy on the phone last night quite believed what I was trying to tell him.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Fizzy on Oct 23, 2013, 18:13:03
Just like to add that I'm having major throughput issues today as well.   01656 area code.  On 80Mb FTTC and connected as normal around 76Mb.  However, throughput is struggling to hit 20Mb and is often a lot lower, and seems to be wavering a lot.  Normally it's pretty much at line speed.

You tube vids seem a bit jittery today too, so traffic not too smooth I assume?

Tried rebooting my router  - even tried the standard BT FTTC box as well, and a laptop to rule our anything specific to my pc - just in case. :)  Still the same.

If it's any help :-

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                             192.168.1.1 -    0 |  225 |  225 |    0 |    0 |    1 |    1 |
|             telehouse-gw4-lo1.idnet.net -    1 |  218 |  216 |   12 |   13 |   28 |   14 |
|                           212.69.63.247 -    2 |  210 |  206 |   11 |   13 |  132 |   12 |
|            redbus-gw2-gi3-331.idnet.net -    1 |  218 |  216 |   12 |   12 |   14 |   13 |
|          redbus-gw1-gi5-0-301.idnet.net -    3 |  202 |  196 |   12 |   12 |   14 |   13 |
|                           www.idnet.net -    5 |  196 |  188 |   12 |   12 |   14 |   13 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
   WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Steve on Oct 23, 2013, 18:31:12
Having received a reply from support, there's little I can add to what Brian said earlier in this thread, it is due to heavy peering traffic, they are monitoring it,it should resolve towards off peak times.  Looks like Apple again.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: patc57 on Oct 23, 2013, 18:33:19
Steve - Peering at what point? Before Telehouse? Cos that's what we're all seeing.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: psp83 on Oct 23, 2013, 18:40:12
It just weird that IDnet seems to be the only ISP having the problem.

A few friends on different ISPs in the same town are not having problems.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 23, 2013, 18:55:04
I am doubting its Apple, its been 8 hours like this now  :mad: friends on other networks are having no issues, I think something else is wrong, none of the other ISP's I have checked are reporting any issues like this. My download speed is 19Mbps my upload is 15Mbps it was 67Mbps and 17Mbps, to be honest I'm a bit peeved to say the least.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 23, 2013, 19:21:15
And suddenly its back to normal for me :dunno:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Adrian on Oct 23, 2013, 19:41:37
Quote from: Gary on Oct 23, 2013, 19:21:15
And suddenly its back to normal for me :dunno:

Interesting, mine has returned to normal too. Maybe all my fellow Mac users have now finished downloading Mavericks.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: lozcart on Oct 23, 2013, 20:06:01
My two downloads of Mavericks have just finished, sorry if I hogged the bandwidth  :evil:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 23, 2013, 20:08:47
Mines dropped to 70 from 40  :rant2:  :bawl:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: andrue on Oct 23, 2013, 20:25:57
Yah, getting worse here. TBB is badly affected, I'm barely getting over 5Mb/s. Speedtest.net is down to 20Mb/s. Both highly variable. I've noticed this on other occasions - the link to TBB often suffers more.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: sobranie on Oct 23, 2013, 20:45:26
Other ISP users around my area seem unaffected. Is it reasonable to conclude that all would be Apple Site perusers are availing themselves of IDNets bandwidth/servers etc etc.?
FWIW my speed is now sub 4.
Would it also be reasonable at this juncture for IDNet to consider any other scenarios to explain this diabolical situation?
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Steve on Oct 23, 2013, 20:59:28
I'm reminded of this post

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,31394.msg718609.html#msg718609

It does seem disappointing that the peering links are being blamed for our current poor throughput,I'll take your word that other ISPs are not suffering, certainly it's after LINX peak time and my throughput is still poor.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: JamesAllen on Oct 23, 2013, 21:00:48
Yeah looks like it got better about 19:45 but then from 20:00 has been bad again. This is really annoying. Hoping I can online game later but if the packet loss continues it won't be worth it.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 23, 2013, 21:21:27
Considering no other ISP's are mentioning this...and the fact my mother on BT infinity is getting a happy 38Mbps down at this very moment it feels like an issue with IDNets peering points, and very ironic after that post Steve mentioned.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: andrue on Oct 23, 2013, 21:34:12
Quote from: Steve on Oct 23, 2013, 20:59:28I'll take your word that other ISPs are not suffering, certainly it's after LINX peak time and my throughput is still poor.
No need to take it on trust. Look here:

http://craigswebsites.co.uk/ping/

Looks to be fairly unique to IDNet although there's one Supanet monitor showing packet loss of around the same duration.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: syserr0r on Oct 23, 2013, 21:35:54
Quote from: Steve on Oct 23, 2013, 20:59:28
I'm reminded of this post

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,31394.msg718609.html#msg718609

It does seem disappointing that the peering links are being blamed for our current poor throughput,I'll take your word that other ISPs are not suffering, certainly it's after LINX peak time and my throughput is still poor.

It would appear that post was designed to be misinterpreted.

My understanding (supported by information from here (http://www.peeringdb.com/view.php?asn=12496)) is that they have a handful of uplinks (In this case the main uplinks appear to be 1xLINX Gigabit link and 2xLONAP Gigabit links [with both IPv4 and IPv6 respectively]) that give IDNet their upstream connection to the 'rest of the internet' (aka the 600 other peers that also connect to LINX/LONAP; and via LINX/LONAP to connect to Telia/Level3 etc.)

A bit like boasting that my phone can connect with over 6 billion (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19925506) different mobile phone numbers, when that applies to anyone with a mobile phone. (And incidentally, I can't as soon as my mobile phone loses coverage).
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Steve on Oct 23, 2013, 21:40:41
To be honest Gary I wouldn't be bothered at all, we get the odd blip and that's life,it just coincides with my desire to download what seems the entire contents of Apple's server. :evil:

@syserr0r I wonder how throughput is currently on IPv6
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: andrue on Oct 23, 2013, 21:45:00
Quote from: Steve on Oct 23, 2013, 21:40:41To be honest Gary I wouldn't be bothered at all, we get the odd blip and that's life
Yeah, I don't currently see it as a problem because I'm sure it will soon clear. My main concern last night was if it was something local to me.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 23, 2013, 21:46:28
Quote from: Steve on Oct 23, 2013, 21:40:41
To be honest Gary I wouldn't be bothered at all, we get the odd blip and that's life,it just coincides with my desire to download what seems the entire contents of Apple's server. :evil:

@syserr0r I wonder how throughput is currently on IPv6
Be bothered with what, Steve?  ??? Twelve hours of sub par speeds is not a blip...
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: JamesAllen on Oct 23, 2013, 22:02:23
It certainly isn't. Well packet loss is still awful so looks like online gaming is a no no tonight. Really annoying as this is one week I get off from planning my radio show. Sods law...
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Steve on Oct 23, 2013, 22:07:55
Quote from: Gary on Oct 23, 2013, 21:46:28
Be bothered with what, Steve?  ??? Twelve hours of sub par speeds is not a blip...

I'm speaking for myself, life goes on, in the whole scheme of things it's not that important to me. If it becomes a regular event then it would impinge on me.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: syserr0r on Oct 23, 2013, 22:10:52
Quote from: Steve on Oct 23, 2013, 21:40:41
@syserr0r I wonder how throughput is currently on IPv6

Likely wouldn't be any different. I would guess that both IPv4 and IPv6 traffic is routed over the 3 main (Gigabit) peers (although they could be separate1), so congestion would affect both.

It has really surprised me to find they rely on 3Gbit/sec (and 350Mbit/sec if you're being picky) for their uplinks.
I didn't imagine them to be a big company, but some rudimentary sums give, assuming:

Download
*Assuming 50% of Max. theoretical throughput is the average

Would allow for:
At any given time


Upload
*Assuming Full-Duplex uplinks (the almost certainly would be)
**Assuming 50% of Max. theoretical throughput is the average


Would allow for:
At any given time

The scary thing is it wouldn't take more than (3,350/72 [80Mbit minus 10% overhead] = ) 47 FTTC users with maximum line speed to completely saturate their uplinks.

Ah, the joys of playing the over-provisioning game!

1Double the number of users if the IPv4 and IPv6 uplinks are separate (so 94 max-speed FTTC users to saturate all their uplinks, or 47 max-speed FTTC users to saturate only ipv4 or only ipv6)
For anyone interested, take a look at TalkTalk's uplinks (http://www.peeringdb.com/private/participant_view.php?id=721)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Steve on Oct 23, 2013, 22:15:56
I guess if your assumptions are correct it's quite feasible to see how congestion will occur.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 23, 2013, 22:25:28
Well I'm back to full speed again,hope it lasts  ;)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: psp83 on Oct 23, 2013, 22:49:11
Its getting better but speeds are still all over the place.

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/138256830733756297803.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=138256830733756297803)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Fizzy on Oct 23, 2013, 23:15:54
I seem to have an improvement now - speedtest.net just about back to normal.   thinkbroadband tester giving odd results again though :-

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/138256949400546697859.png)

I'm confused about the TBB test.  If IDNet don't do any form of packet shaping or traffic prioritisation, how come there's such a difference?  Surely it should be the same for both, or both equally effected by network traffic....although I guess it depends on where the target servers are that the tests are using too...  ???

I had an issue on my pc before where the TBB test was low but http full speed.  Was fine on a laptop using same cable/router though.   Ended up rebuilding my pc as it seemed to be some wierd networking issue.  Anyhow, this time it's not machine specific.   :dunno:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Steve on Oct 24, 2013, 06:10:46
Certainly my packet loss seemed to resolve at around 11pm some 14 hours after it started.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Bill on Oct 24, 2013, 08:30:45
LONAP traffic for the last 48 hours- comparing the shapes of yesterday's curve with the day before (and ignoring the Mavericks spike) it looks as though from around 10:30 to 15:00, from 16:00 to 18:00 and (maybe) 19:30 onwards a fairly hefty chunk of traffic was routed somewhere else, then it returned to normal (ie matched the previous days pattern) at around 22:00. Which (broadly) fits with my BQMs.

I'm reluctant to believe that those drops are due to straightforward lack of internet usage... whether it was routine maintenance, equipment failure or something else completely, and whether IDNet traffic was moved or stayed on the old path, I have no idea but it seems likely to me that there's a connection somewhere.

Anyone more knowledgeable think that seems reasonable?

(http://cust120-dsl53.idnet.net/~billford/images/Lonap.png)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 24, 2013, 09:07:09
Interesting Bill, I was in the middle of downloading when I lost throughput at 10:30am ish  ::) I have called a few gaming friends and none seem to have seen the packet loss we experienced.  :eyebrow:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Simon_idnet on Oct 24, 2013, 09:31:27
It appears that we have a large number of Apple fans who like to update the software on their devices promptly. As none of our LLU customers experienced any problems it seems that we'll need to get some more bandwidth out of BT. Apologies for the inconvenience.

Bill, I see that Akamai (who host content for Apple and BBC etc) moved their traffic away from LONAP and over to LINX and other peering points a few times over the past few days.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Bill on Oct 24, 2013, 09:51:39
I wasn't completely wide of the mark then, thanks Simon :)

From my BQMs it looks like they're doing it again, but a bit early to be sure yet.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 24, 2013, 09:57:41
Apple maybe should learn to release updates in a staggered manner rather than everything all at once  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Bill on Oct 24, 2013, 10:22:46
Or users develop some patience instead of wanting it NOW :P
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 24, 2013, 11:23:04
Quote from: Bill on Oct 24, 2013, 10:22:46
Or users develop some patience instead of wanting it NOW :P
I think Apple releasing updates on certain days once a month is probably a more realistic approach
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: JamesAllen on Oct 24, 2013, 11:46:45
Quote from: Bill on Oct 24, 2013, 10:22:46
Or users develop some patience instead of wanting it NOW :P

Never going to happen.  ;D
Even my 64 year old Dad proudly posted a picture of his newly updated laptop on Facebook yesterday. He was even worse with iOS 7 - constantly checking the update service.. Sigh..
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: lozcart on Oct 24, 2013, 11:58:00
Yesterday evening I updated two Macs to Mavericks and then the relevant App updates, iPad iOS and Apps updated and iPhone*2 iOS and Apps updated, the total download for the day was nearly 25GB. I sometimes only use that in a month!

So yes certainly for me the last few days has seen me hammer my idnet connection.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 24, 2013, 15:47:20
Mine has slowed down to 40Mbps yet again  :mad:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: patc57 on Oct 24, 2013, 15:53:18
Yeah this is still occurring for me. A nice long test for you over the last 30 minutes or so showing 2-3% packet loss at the first hurdle:

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                                      WinMTR statistics                                   |
|                       Host              -   %  | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
|                              FTTC-IDNET -    0 | 1263 | 1263 |    1 |    2 |    7 |    3 |
|             telehouse-gw2-lo1.idnet.net -    2 | 1177 | 1155 |   13 |   19 |  181 |   17 |
|                           212.69.63.247 -    3 | 1161 | 1135 |   13 |   14 |   62 |   14 |
|            redbus-gw2-gi3-331.idnet.net -    3 | 1137 | 1105 |   13 |   14 |   17 |   15 |
|          redbus-gw1-gi5-0-301.idnet.net -    3 | 1149 | 1120 |   13 |   14 |  207 |   16 |
|                           www.idnet.net -    3 | 1157 | 1130 |   13 |   14 |   20 |   15 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
 


It definitely improved overnight. Seems something's wrong with the bits we can't see, before it gets to Telehouse, as shown earlier.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 24, 2013, 16:00:49
Quote from: patc57 on Oct 24, 2013, 15:53:18
Yeah this is still occurring for me. A nice long test for you over the last 30 minutes or so showing 2-3% packet loss at the first hurdle:


It definitely improved overnight. Seems something's wrong with the bits we can't see, before it gets to Telehouse, as shown earlier.
Two days of this is now getting to be annoying. I know ist just the interwebs but the yoyo line is not great for gaming at all. Can it still be people downloading Apple stuff?  :( After 10pm last night and this morning I was back up to 69Mbps now its bouncing around from minute to minute
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Tacitus on Oct 24, 2013, 16:02:51
As an old Mac hand I never update to the latest version of OSX straightaway, but generally wait until the second or third iteration.  In the meantime the apps catch up and the worst of the bugs get shaken out.  Mind you I did stream the live event via Apple TV.

Pages seems to be this years attempt at another Maps fiasco as they appear to be turning a perfectly decent word processor and layout programme into a pos.

A flavour of the comments can be seen here:  http://bit.ly/1agUYo8 (http://bit.ly/1agUYo8)

Personally I use Nisus Writer Pro and Word when I'm forced to, but Pages was very good at doing layouts.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 24, 2013, 16:05:03
Quote from: Tacitus on Oct 24, 2013, 16:02:51
As an old Mac hand I never update to the latest version of OSX straightaway, but generally wait until the second or third iteration.  In the meantime the apps catch up and the worst of the bugs get shaken out.

Pages seems to be this years attempt at another Maps fiasco as they appear to be turning a perfectly decent word processor and layout programme into a pos.

A flavour of the comments can be seen here:  http://bit.ly/1agUYo8 (http://bit.ly/1agUYo8)

Personally I use Nisus Writer Pro and Word when I'm forced to, but Pages was very good at doing layouts.
Last Year ML was ok Mavericks is definitely not. tbh I don't mind who uses it and who doesn't, I  just want my internet speed to remain constant.  :)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: JamesAllen on Oct 24, 2013, 17:20:23
So with the congestion on the way to IDNet does that infer that the issue here is IDNet customers downloading the update, rather than the rest of the country?
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 24, 2013, 17:23:59
Quote from: JamesAllen on Oct 24, 2013, 17:20:23
So with the congestion on the way to IDNet does that infer that the issue here is IDNet customers downloading the update, rather than the rest of the country?
I would imagine isp's like AAISP have Apple users too and no mention of issues there. Apple release a OS X update once a year and last year there was no issues from what I remember.  :-\
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: psp83 on Oct 24, 2013, 17:27:17
Quote from: Gary on Oct 24, 2013, 17:23:59
Apple release a OS X update once a year and last year there was no issues from what I remember.  :-\

There was packet loss on the same night and following day when iOS 7 was released though.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Fizzy on Oct 24, 2013, 18:05:27
Just checked and my throughput is back up to it's normal self on both tests off thinkbroadband.    :D  :thumb:

I did notice that I was disconnected from idnet at 2am this morning for a short while (broadband was up) so suspect there may have been some work or rebalancing connections about that time which probably sorted the issue out for me. 
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: andrue on Oct 24, 2013, 18:21:06
Going bad again tonight it seems. Oh well I'm mostly out anyway and little I do really needs the speed or low latency.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: mervl on Oct 24, 2013, 18:50:43
FTTC is having a massive effect on the volume of internet traffic, and it's going to get worse.  ::) Just perhaps those of us downloading all at once because we can, need to think of others? Even my dog realises he doesn't eat the whole 12kg bad of food at once just because it's there. But we're British = idiots.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 24, 2013, 20:05:05
Quote from: mervl on Oct 24, 2013, 18:50:43
FTTC is having a massive effect on the volume of internet traffic, and it's going to get worse.  ::) Just perhaps those of us downloading all at once because we can, need to think of others? Even my dog realises he doesn't eat the whole 12kg bad of food at once just because it's there. But we're British = idiots.
Yet other ISP's are fine...I think t more to do with bandwidth as Simon said earlier on that some notion of think before you download   ;)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: andrue on Oct 24, 2013, 23:12:47
Looks like it recovered while I was out. Certainly back to normal now:

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/138265622108828170703.png)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Bill on Oct 28, 2013, 11:02:59
I seems to have started again... it can't still be Mavericks :mad:

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/699b87773a7ecb653725a08436f17054-28-10-2013.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/699b87773a7ecb653725a08436f17054-28-10-2013.html)

Ignore the spike, that was me.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Simon on Oct 28, 2013, 11:09:01
BT problems?  Floods?  Damage from fallen trees?  :dunno:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Bill on Oct 28, 2013, 11:14:27
Not enough bandwidth? (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,31430.msg719266.html#msg719266)

It could be what you suggest, but it's following the same pattern as last week... if it happens again tomorrow, I'll stick with my idea.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Reya on Oct 29, 2013, 20:40:03
Absolutely horrendous tonight. I'm getting packet loss left, right, and centre. Half the sites I try are either churning away and not loading at all, or are taking upwards of minutes to load. :(

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/98e5293d796a55493022fb0314f5916b-29-10-2013.png)
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Simon on Oct 29, 2013, 21:15:58
There was an update on this today.  The problems should hopefully ease from Thursday:

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,31445.msg719675.html#msg719675
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Reya on Oct 29, 2013, 21:23:47
Thanks for that, Simon (she says, after waiting a minute and a half for the reply page to load). Only one more day to wait, then. Oy!
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Simon on Oct 29, 2013, 21:27:32
It's quite weird though, as personally, I've not had any issues.  Page loaded in  0.182 seconds.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: psp83 on Oct 29, 2013, 21:30:12
The forum does have its funny 5 mins now and again for me as well, I reported it to Zap the other day.

It might be the bandwidth issues or something going wrong with the forum db/server... But it'll be hard to tell with the bandwidth issue at the mo.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Gary on Oct 29, 2013, 22:13:19
Sometimes the forum is unbearably slow for me as well. Pages take ages to load, once again not sure if its a bandwidth issue or forum one. It does seem to be FTTC users that are effected most, I wonder why.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: zappaDPJ on Oct 30, 2013, 01:56:55
I'm also finding this forum quite slow to respond more often than not but it's been the same elsewhere else off and on during the last few days so it might be due to the current bandwidth issues which I have to say are becoming more than a little tedious. BBC iPlayer for example buffers continually.
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: Fizzy on Oct 31, 2013, 16:49:59
Quote from: Fizzy on Oct 24, 2013, 18:05:27
Just checked and my throughput is back up to it's normal self on both tests off thinkbroadband.    :D  :thumb:

I did notice that I was disconnected from idnet at 2am this morning for a short while (broadband was up) so suspect there may have been some work or rebalancing connections about that time which probably sorted the issue out for me. 

Dropped massively again today.   :'(   Down to below a tenth of normal on TBB test.  On the plus side I received a couple of warnings about predicted peak time usage earlier in the month going over my limit - this will prevent me doing that today.   :evil:
Title: Re: Anyone else seeing dodgy throughput
Post by: andrue on Oct 31, 2013, 17:38:31
Seems to back to normal for me now:

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/138324094805448660802.png)

:fingers:

Although my TBBQM graph still looks naff.

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/54b54cde9f3a3cc16ff370df7c43c93e-31-10-2013.png)