(http://www.speedtest.net/result/2490847137.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
I hope this is a glitch. From 34mb down and 7.4mb up to this, in 2 weeks. Although, the upload has increased by 1mb today :-\
Oh, I should add, I've just sent an email to support. Hopefully the knowledgeable happy helpers will sort it for me :)
Try the thinkbroadband one Niall as the route is likely to be shorter.
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/136018020559977617785.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results/id/136018020559977617785.html)
:-\
It used to be that the fault threshold on FTTC was 15mb downstream are you below this Niall?
I don't know what you're asking? I was getting 34mb down, 7.4 up and now I'm getting the above.
I assume you mean am I getting less than 15mb, and as I'm getting 8.4 as shown above, I'd say that's a possibility ;)
What's a BT Speedtest showing? you'll need to run the additional diagnostics.
FTTC was initially provided with a minimum level of performance, if it fell below this a fault could be raised. Openreach may have changed this recently, I'm not sure but it used to be a downstream of less than 15mbps.
Download speedachieved during the test was - 13.57 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 16 Mbps-23.59 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 23.59 Mbps
This test was not conclusive and further testing is required.This might be useful for your Broadband Service Provider to investigate the fault.
That was showing 27mb for the line the other week, but the engineer confirmed it supported 34mb when installing the OR Modem.
At least that shows it's doing less than it's supposed to.
Oh yeah, and oddly all my tests say I should be getting 20mb UPLOAD. Yet I get 4.44, so what's that about?
I get nowhere near my 20mb upload 7 usually, I fairly certain it's my distance from the cabinet that limits that. However download throuput is very near to the IP profile. To me there is a fault as confirmed by your BT Speedtest
I'd still love to know why I'm on a cabinet half a mile away when there's one down the road. Cannot get my head around that. I know it's working too as I've seen OR there a few times lately. I'm wondering if them tinkering with a cabinet in between my cabinet and my house has cocked something.
You are possibly on the cabinet that is further away due to the age of the property or maybe the capacity was reached and they needed another one to service more business'/homes in the area.
I doubt that as the cabinet I'm on has more properties around it, and businesses. The one nearer my house a similar amount, with more cabinets further up the road. It just makes no sense to me and no one seems to have an answer.
Ah well, as long as support sort out my line so I get back my connection speed I had. It's sluggish again too, which isn't helping my mood. Seems all I'm doing is posting about problems with my internet these days :mad: I wouldn't mind so much, but literally the day the payment went to IDnet for the switch, my line turned to poop. A paranoid man might jump to conclusions :P
Quote from: Niall on Feb 06, 2013, 20:36:56
Download speedachieved during the test was - 13.57 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 16 Mbps-23.59 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 23.59 Mbps
At least yours says there's a fault. I'm going to look at setting up continuous modem monitoring in the next couple of days 'cos we're approaching the 19th of the month when I'll get a 50% speed reduction. It might be my last chance to present IDNet support with proof before I have to decide if I'm staying beyond the end of my contract.
Niall, I'd agree with what has been said.
I'm on an exchange about 3 miles from me even though there's one over the road because the estate was built long before the nearer exchange was built.
I suspect you are connected to the cabinet that causes them the least grief to connect you to in terms of physical access to the ducting and copper.
I've had a reply from support asking for the speedtest in this thread but my email won't send "as the server doesn't allow relaying".
That's just great. I'm in work so that's that then.
Quote from: Niall on Feb 07, 2013, 09:19:48
I've had a reply from support asking for the speedtest in this thread but my email won't send "as the server doesn't allow relaying".
Are you sending from a personal laptop? It's probably saying that because the account you want to use doesn't belong on that server. Eg;You're trying to send through mail.company.com using an account on mail.personal.com. Back in the days of innocence that was fine but no respectable server would let you do that now.
You should be able to send using your work account but you'll have to make sure they know who you are - I've done that in the past and not had a problem. Mostly though I use my server's web portal.
Log on to your webmail and send it as suggested, http://webmail.idnet.com/
Actually you can ignore that, I just got a reply from Nick so it seems my emails were getting through despite the error message.
Apologies to support if I bombarded you with the same email :D
Quote from: Niall on Feb 07, 2013, 10:31:32
Actually you can ignore that, I just got a reply from Nick so it seems my emails were getting through despite the error message.
Apologies to support if I bombarded you with the same email :D
Lol, I've done that before. In my case I never know if my mail is getting past their greylisting. An automated acknowledgement would be nice ;)
There usually is one. :dunno:
Apparently they can't see anything when testing the line so they've referred it to bt. Hopefully bt will do something now there's evidence of the problems I've been seeing. Maybe they'll even move me to the cabinet nearer!
It will be interesting to see what BT do Niall, I can't remember anyone one the forum having a fault like yours on FTTC.
:fingers: they sort it out for you.
Thanks to all the problems I had before that no one could solve, I know my kit isn't defective thanks to engineers confirming it for me, and I also know the cable (BTs) coming in the house is fine. That leaves the cable that leaves the property and thanks to them removing our cabinet they've left themselves with half a mile of copper to check :golfclap:
Had a reply from support this morning which I've replied to but again a getting the relay error message so don't know if they've had it.
Basically it says that BT can see my line has dropped by about 25%. Strange that they consider 8.4mb from 34mb to be a 25% drop. They're also asking me if I want an engineer sent out which I may get charged for. Seriously, I even show them the link with the Bt test staring their own system says there's a fault and they threaten me with charges.
Classy.
They probably have to say that, even if it's obvious there's a fault their side.
Quote from: Niall on Feb 08, 2013, 10:31:28They're also asking me if I want an engineer sent out which I may get charged for. Seriously, I even show them the link with the Bt test staring their own system says there's a fault and they threaten me with charges.
Although I don't often stick up for IDNet support, in this case I think they are exercising their duty of care toward you. The fact is that BT will levy a charge if they don't find a fault within their network(*) and IDNet are entitled to pass that charge on to you. It would be very remiss of them not to warn you of the possibility. Especially since...
(*)BT have a reputation for charging people when they shouldn't.
This link is a bit old now but gives examples of the kinds of things ISPs have to deal with:
http://aaisp.net.uk/kb-broadband-sfi.html
Just pisses me off with all the problems I'm constantly having. They should be paying me to use them the amount of time and effort I've wasted over the year+ of problems.
Unfortunately Niall until BT have an equal sized competitor in the UK which they'll lobby hard to prevent they can and will do exactly what they want.
Quote from: Niall on Feb 08, 2013, 13:55:07
Just pisses me off with all the problems I'm constantly having. They should be paying me to use them the amount of time and effort I've wasted over the year+ of problems.
Is this on FTTC? Any beta (software or hardware) does seem to be both at the expense of the customer and at a profit to the seller currently. :/
With perhaps the exception of a few BETAs that have no bugs and run smooth as the release.
In house beta testers are paid. But poorly and with even worse work routines from what I hear. ;)
VDSL is not really in beta Ben, its been in use in places like Japan for a while.
Surely as with FTTC everything up to (and including) the VDSL modem is BT's kit, the only bit that you have to check is your router and network (cabling - beware of wi-fi issues) or a clapped out PC - if that's OK what is the risk of a charge standing up? Even some of BT's faceplates can apparently be defective.
OK we all like slagging off BT, but how hard can it be for you? I know the local loop cabling is rubbish but that's how work was done in the 50s, 60s 70s and even 80s, and it takes a battering from the elements, especially in this wicked winter at the joints where, as common throughout all industry, modern materials and practices are not always as robust as they used to be (it's about time and cost - and as consumers most of us are jolly glad about that most of the time, or we wouldn't have the lifestyles we "enjoy"). End of rant.
Interestingly there's a thread on TBB discussing the possibility of certain makes of 'home plugs' interfering with the OpenReach modem.
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/2499806314.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
This is quite disturbing. Rather than it stating what the line is capable of which was 34mb after initially being told 27mb, the BT tester is now showing:
Download speedachieved during the test was - 13.34 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 16 Mbps-12.68 Mbps <-- ha :D
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 12.68 Mbps
Looks like there's definitely something wrong on the line somewhere if I'm getting 3mb more than ADSL...
Oh by the way, BT told Idnet that my line has lost 25% of it's speed, which annoyingly they just repeated to me rather than realising that 25% off 34mb doesn't leave me with 8mb ??? Also, even at 13mb it's lost more than 25%. Why support just blindly repeated this to me without querying BT I'll never know, but it leaves me feeling like nothing will be done if that's the sort of acceptable answer support are happy with :(
If the fault threshold is 15 surely there's an obligation to you. The BT Speedtest is taken from your current live data so yes it will be poor.
Yeah, I was more pointing out the fact the range is backwards. 16-12.68? Originally it was 27mb dead, and then I got 34mb and the engineer told me that's what the line would be supporting. I'd be happy getting the 27mb currently, and flaky website loading, syncing Steam with the cloud after playing a game, uploading photos to Flickr; all this is taking MUCH longer than it should. Also I'm getting some timeouts on tracerts when going through the IDnet network, but I'll wait for BT to see what they say as I assume IDnet have THOROUGHLY tested my line and checked their settings :)
Pretty sure it's BT, but who knows?
With the relay issue I had not getting my emails through all day (but oddly okay when sending hotmail emails) I could only reply to support after 5pm on Friday when I connected to a wifi network in the pub, so chances are they won't even read my reply until Monday. The long and short was I told them I'm not paying for an engineer and as the BT site says it's a fault they want to look at, then they can by all means send an engineer but I'm not off until the 18th.
This also means that the 2 weeks I have booked off work that I've had to wait 7 months for, are already being interfered with :mad:
Have you ticked the box 'my SMTP server requires authentication' and put your UserID and password in as that should bypass any issues with authenticating the IP address.
I don't think IDNet nor any ISP will request an engineer visit without the customer agreement to accept the charge, as you say though you've checked all your internal kit and wiring so I doubt very much they will levy it.
Quote from: pctech on Feb 08, 2013, 17:08:59
VDSL is not really in beta Ben, its been in use in places like Japan for a while.
Well, it's "beta" when ever a new business take it on. There is no guarantee the knowledge and experience... or even the hardware migrate.
I would hope they get plenty of support from the hardware vendors which I gather are Huawei and ECI telecom.
Quote from: pctech on Feb 10, 2013, 21:21:19
Have you ticked the box 'my SMTP server requires authentication' and put your UserID and password in as that should bypass any issues with authenticating the IP address.
I don't think IDNet nor any ISP will request an engineer visit without the customer agreement to accept the charge, as you say though you've checked all your internal kit and wiring so I doubt very much they will levy it.
Yeah I've been accessing my idnet account only from my phone for the last few years. Occasionally this happens, but I never find out why it happens. As in the other thread about 6.1 on the 4s I'm now wondering if it's something to do with Vodafone and the recent iphone update.
Quote from: Niall on Feb 11, 2013, 00:01:57
Yeah I've been accessing my idnet account only from my phone for the last few years. Occasionally this happens, but I never find out why it happens. As in the other thread about 6.1 on the 4s I'm now wondering if it's something to do with Vodafone and the recent iphone update.
Got to be something to do with Voda's network config otherwise there'd be an absolute outcry unless others have found and fixed the problem before now.
Argh support have replied to me today but I can't send them a bloody reply!
These setting work reliably with 02
Out: smtp.idnet.com
SSL: Off
Authentication: Password
Server Port: 587
It's port 110 for me or it doesn't work at all, I just tried :)
Ah lots of swear words.
My smtp was mail.idnet.net and that's always worked before. I've changed it now and it still doesn't work. I can receive fine just not send.
These came from Simon but I use the same in the IDNet help thread.
It must be vodafone. When I'm connected to a wifi network (any) I can send email.
Have you tried setting up the email account on your phone again from scratch, using the above settings? Those have always worked for me.
Niall, 6.1.1 is now out for iPhone 4S, it might help with your problem.
Updating now :)
/me does rain dance
Had an email (that I can't reply to despite updating my phone last night) stating BT can see downstream errors possibly indicating a fault. I'm very tempted to post something born of frustration, stress and exhaustion but won't.
This is what has been happening for ages, but engineers do something to reset the line before the visit, claim they haven't, then find no fault and my line returns to normal. Funny that they don't levy a charge against the ISP if there's nothing wrong on a visit ::)
Anyway, my Monday off will now be spent waiting for an engineer to come. Believe me the poor sod is going to get barraged with questions, and this time I want answers.
Hmm, think I'll delete my idnet email account on my phone and reinstall it. I'm now wondering whether the last iphone update has corrupted something. I've got over 20 emails I've sent on there up to just before that borked update. Now I can't send any no matter what settings I use.
Had an email from Nick again this morning (still can't reply as I forgot to try removing my account and re-inputting it on my phone!) to say BT now don't need to visit as they think there's a fault at the exchange. I knew they checked things before visits and the OR van and engineer at my cabinet this morning followed by this email confirms that for me!
Quote from: Niall on Feb 13, 2013, 14:12:58BT now don't need to visit as they think there's a fault at the exchange.
That seems odd. So far it's sounded like a physical line fault. In theory (to my mind at least) all that's in the exchange is an ethernet switch. Don't know if it's optical or has to go through a quick optical->electrical->switch->electrical->optical conversion but that should either work or not. Also I'd think anything wrong there would affect everyone on your cab if not everyone on the exchange.
Weird.
That was my thought too Andrue. I can only think loose wording: "exchange" = cabinet, which actually for VDSL does perform the function of an exchange (which is what my [foreign] modem/router calls it!).
Always a problem since I gather than the OR techs who actually do the installs aren't allowed to touch the VDSL cabs, which are the responsibility of another department. Oh the joys of specialisation of labour (and economies of scale) those shibboleths of economics that we all grew up with.
I'm waiting to see what happens, but on every fault we've had here, BT have said it's a fault at the exchange. We've had noise on phone lines (both), repairs done to sort that which is why we know there's no physical fault here at the house, and when I get an engineer visit arranged, mysteriously my line fixes itself 2-4 days before the visit is due, yet no charge is levied against me. BT once tried to charge me but IDnet disputed this as it was their fault (BT that is) and we couldn't understand how they could even try that.
Now this, I agree is a line fault. It cannot be anything else with the problems I've been having, but possibly they've cocked something up at the exchange too. If this follows a pattern, my line will sort itself out and in a month or so it'll happen again. Annoyingly with FTTC the problem will probably result in a drop of speed to just over the threshold so I won't be able to get it sorted.
Call me paranoid, but I really get the feeling I'm being shafted by BT, after all I've been BSd for near on 2 years by them now :)
Quote from: mervl on Feb 13, 2013, 21:50:20
That was my thought too Andrue. I can only think loose wording: "exchange" = cabinet, which actually for VDSL does perform the function of an exchange (which is what my [foreign] modem/router calls it!).
Always a problem since I gather than the OR techs who actually do the installs aren't allowed to touch the VDSL cabs, which are the responsibility of another department. Oh the joys of specialisation of labour (and economies of scale) those shibboleths of economics that we all grew up with.
Not sure about that. Every time I've seen the engineers by the cabinet my connection is attached to, it's always been the same lot. That being said, I've no idea what skill set the person in that van actually has. They were there literally and hour before I got an email saying the problem was at the exchange. What ever it is, I want it sorted as I'm very close to losing my temper completely with it all.
Ha what an absolute joke. Nick emailed me again this morning to advise BT are saying there's no fault at the exchange and a visit is needed!
Getting really pissed off with this bullshit now.
And incase it's not clear, my rant was aimed at BT not Nick, who is being helpful :)
Right. Engineer has just been and as per usual my line was reset before the visit. No errors on the line and my speed is:
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/2516428384.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
I'm waiting for Idnet to get back to me now when the engineer has submitted his report, but basically he's told me to take it to my MP because I'm clearly being pissed about. So, the ball is back in IDnets court for now.
Every single time I have this fault, the line is reset, the engineer can't see a fault because the line has been reset, goes away saying this. I'm starting to wonder who exactly is pulling the wool over my eyes here. Clearly an engineer can do nothing if the line was reset, which would have been AFTER BT tested the exchange 5 days ago as my line hasn't reset until either last night or today. Same on ADSL when I had problems, same on ADSL+ and now it's the same on FTTC. If the line is fibre to the cabinet, then copper to my property then there would always be a fault on the line if something was wrong with the copper. If it was the cabinet, how has the fault transferred from a copper cabinet to an FTTC cabinet? As far as I'm aware that's not even possible.
So, to sum up someone is resetting my line every time immediately before a visit. BT engineer tells me they don't do that, IDnet said they didn't last time I asked. Engineer can never find a fault when there clearly is one, and now even the engineers are telling me to go to my MP. The long and short of it is that I'm not getting what I'm paying for and it's under the threshold of acceptable speeds (until SOMEONE reset the line immediately before the visit).
Oh, also my line is sluggish as hell now, so I'll have to power down the OR modem again which will no doubt have awesome results...
Time to wait for a response.
Oh and my ping time is triple what it was, so I'm wondering if interleaving has been applied too.
I've sent support an email via the contact page now as I'm not sitting in the house all day waiting for a reply.
Niall, have you ever posted about this on Think Broadband? I don't want to imply that it's a panacea for all your problems (it might be a waste of time) but the guys on there have a lot of experience and might have some ideas. You might even catch the eye of a passing BTor engineer - there's a few that lurk there. There must be some explanation for what's going on.
One thing I will suggest based on something I discovered at the weekend: Make sure you do the tests with every conceivable program disabled. I discovered at the weekend that my tried and trusted ad-blocker is responsible for the naff upload speeds reported by the TBB tester and is also the cause of the poor results from speedtest.net. I've used that application for several years now and would never have guessed that it could impact the upload (not the download ???) like that. What's more I have to actually unload it not just disable filtering.
It goes to prove (and as a software developer I really should know this by now) that it is never, ever safe to assume anything :)
With an ad-blocker:
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/136105077044589821522.png)
Without an ad-blocker:
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/1361051276791005471.png)
I never have anything running when I do the speedtests. I also back up the speed test with a random download from either a well seeded torrent, a game on Steam, etc so you get your connection maxed. As recently as Thursday my line was still under 13mb (I downloaded a game through Steam) and suddenly it's up to the speed mentioned above. Same happened last time. I'm really curious to find out who is lying to me, because someone clearly is. Either BT or IDnet are resetting the line immediately before a visit, well within 2-3 days of a visit, just like last time (which I think I mentioned on here at the time).
When I had FTTC installed I was on 34mb and 7.40 up. Today the engineer confirmed the upload speed, but the download has got nowhere near that speed on his tests. He was actually moaning about his own line as he gets 50mb when he was getting 80mb and as he had the tools he diagnosed his fault himself, but OR wouldn't do anything to fix the error he reported because it was within acceptable tolerance. Goes to show how cr*p they can be, and he had a lot of choice words about BTs monopoly too, which makes a change for an engineer!
Anyway, this fault is always there, and my line will, if the same as ADSL slowly drop over the next week or so. I'm sick of it, and I've been far more patient than anyone should have to be, and the fact my line is being reset before each visit implies someone is trying to hide something. The engineer said they don't reset the line as they need to find the fault before doing anything.
Also you have to bear in mind all the false info I've been given over the years (2 ish) of problems, resulting in me spending god knows how much replacing all my networking gear. I've had faceplates, filters, routers, cables all replaced to rule that out. I've even changed all my PC hardware during this period to rule that out, and have since changed it all again as I replaced ageing hardware. I moved electrical appliances out and even turned off every electrical appliance in the house while my mum was on holiday. I've had engineers rule out my equipment (even my spare router) and cabling. I've bought surge protection plug adapters to make sure nothing was up there. We've even coincidentally had the electrics in the house replaced to a more modern system which ruled out problems with the old internal board. We've had engineers out for voice faults on the lines (both mine and my mums). Neither of us have Sky connected via broadband or phone lines (ever). The routers all work perfectly at other peoples houses too.
I have spent I have no idea how many hours and what must be close to £800 replacing hardware since problems started, and I have gotten exactly nowhere. To say I'm close to ceasing to be polite about it anymore, is an understatement. I generally don't give people grief via support, but no one is doing anything for me to date, other than requesting engineer visits and then parroting what the engineer tell them.
Honestly, I have no idea what to do now other than to raise all my questions via MP so I can get clear answers. Well, that's if support give an unsatisfactory answer to my frankly blunt email I sent earlier.
Quote from: Niall on Feb 18, 2013, 10:47:13the fact my line is being reset before each visit implies someone is trying to hide something.
I can't see what purpose that would possibly serve. Understand, I'm not suggesting that the fault isn't there. It clearly is. I just can't understand why BT or IDNet or anyone else would be trying to cover it up. Unless there are hundreds or thousands of users out there with the same scenario I just can't see it. The evidence is that BT's FTTC works and for most people works well. Faults happen and they should get fixed. I can't see why they'd choose not to fix something just for one person.
QuoteHonestly, I have no idea what to do now other than to raise all my questions via MP so I can get clear answers. Well, that's if support give an unsatisfactory answer to my frankly blunt email I sent earlier.
I think before trying my MP I'd try someone senior at BT then perhaps Ofcom. It depends on your MP though.
Quote from: andrue on Feb 18, 2013, 11:04:43
I can't see what purpose that would possibly serve. Understand, I'm not suggesting that the fault isn't there. It clearly is. I just can't understand why BT or IDNet or anyone else would be trying to cover it up. Unless there are hundreds or thousands of users out there with the same scenario I just can't see it. The evidence is that BT's FTTC works and for most people works well. Faults happen and they should get fixed. I can't see why they'd choose not to fix something just for one person.I think before trying my MP I'd try someone senior at BT then perhaps Ofcom. It depends on your MP though.
This MP thing was actually the engineers idea. If he's telling me that, then I hold no hope or resolving it. He's also said to raise it with the ombudsman, etc. Regarding the line reset, I have absolutely no idea what could be served by resetting my line immediately before a vist but it's been done twice now. Previously it's happened when I've asked for it to be reset, but was also reset before visits but on those occasions it was because the profile was stuck I think so that may have been BT trying to fix that issue. No one tells me ANYTHING when a fault has been fixed so I've no idea what is being done or why. The one exception is when I think it may have been Simon or Brian passed on info regarding broken/damaged equipment at the exchange on my ADSL line, and I was even given the component name on that occasion so I could find out what it was that had broken. My most recent contacts with support have all been rather poor for information. For example I'll send an email with 5 or 6 questions and I'll get a generic answer regarding one of the questions with no attempt made to answer the others.
I only went with IDnet for FTTC as I decided that support prior to this was good. I'm hoping I'm not going to be proven wrong, but will happily sing their praises when they sort something for me.
Quote from: Niall on Feb 18, 2013, 11:16:07No one tells me ANYTHING when a fault has been fixed so I've no idea what is being done or why.
Yeah that is annoying. I no longer have a customer facing job but back when I did I knew that regular updates and giving out information were a great way to keep customers happy. It's sad how many companies don't do that.
QuoteMy most recent contacts with support have all been rather poor for information. For example I'll send an email with 5 or 6 questions and I'll get a generic answer regarding one of the questions with no attempt made to answer the others.
I only went with IDnet for FTTC as I decided that support prior to this was good. I'm hoping I'm not going to be proven wrong, but will happily sing their praises when they sort something for me.
I was moderately impressed with Simon at IDNet at the weekend. Out of the blue he sent me an email saying he was going on holiday but had briefed his staff about the upcoming 19th. Despite one or two heated emails it seems he is still tracking my problem. I haven't liked many of his explanations but it seems to show that he isn't fobbing me off. Of course what we both want is a resolution but it's worth bearing in mind if you ever lose faith with them.
Yeah, I work in a customer facing job and I know that people like to hear the truth even if it sucks, and admittance of fault even if it solves nothing. Always giving full explanations of what has happened and why at least gives you facts to note just incase there are problems in future. Getting a reply to your 6 question email saying "BT are coming on monday 8am-1pm" doesn't tell me anything. Also, I forgot to mention, I asked support to update the engineer with all info regarding the problems I've had. Engineer got here, and knew nothing about my problems and had also been given the wrong phone number as he said to me "your wife says the line is fine now". I have no wife and there was no one in the house other than me, so that was a good start.
I'm afraid that as with everything else in life, I find that you have to use self-help. For FTTC I'm afraid I think that means unlocking the modem if you can - it depends on the type though, and getting and monitoring the stats - which I don't believe IDNet have acccess to, and which BTOR engineers don't have on a continuing basis. Read up all you can on it first, I think Andrue has done it, and Bald Eagle sometimes posts here too? But like everything else worthwhile it is not completely risk-free. You can argue they "ought to" have the stats until you're blue in the face, it won't make any difference - broadband is a mass market product produced to the lowest common denominator (and using a "quality" ISP makes no difference - OR get the same payment and you get the same service from them as from any "cheap as chips" provider - that's the rules set by Ofcom), so your best chance is to confront them with the best information you can get - it's worked for others, but it takes patience and time to get the full picture (not just a snapshot), and there's no guarantee; but I find it beats suffering. I've learnt a lot though Kitz' forum. Of course that won't help for issues on the BTw or IDNet's network, but it looks as though your problems are between the cab and the CPE, not least because they appear to have "carried over" from ADSL to VDSL. Do your neighbours suffer too?
I did it all the wrong way, by paying for an expensive modem/router substitute, but it's a decision I've never regretted not least because of the ability to continuously monitor my line if I'm so inclined, and the peace of mind because I have a much clearer idea of what's going on, is invaluable.
Quote from: andrue on Feb 18, 2013, 10:26:44
I discovered at the weekend that my tried and trusted ad-blocker is responsible for the naff upload speeds reported by the TBB tester and is also the cause of the poor results from speedtest.net. I've used that application for several years now and would never have guessed that it could impact the upload (not the download ???) like that.
Genius! Explains the great mystery why JDast's auto testing (with file uploads) is always twice faster measuring upload speeds than tests done through a browser. I use FF with Adblock add-on. As always I put it down to the performance of BT's poor local loop. They cop it for everything.
Quote from: mervl on Feb 18, 2013, 13:03:39
Genius! Explains the great mystery why JDast's auto testing (with file uploads) is always twice faster measuring upload speeds than tests done through a browser. I use FF with Adblock add-on. As always I put it down to the performance of BT's poor local loop. They cop it for everything.
I'm still not entirely sure what's going on but it's been discussed by the Admuncher team before apparently, as far back as 2005:
http://www.admuncher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=680
But I'm still intrigued by this comment:
"Only the results of the test are affected.
Your actual upload speed isn't effected.".
Lol.
Well basically the outcome of this is that support aren't interested as the line is now 22mb. They claim to not have reset the line and BT the same, but it's clearly been reset before the visit. Now I'm left with no option but to give it a week or so to see what happens. Someone amusingly the engineer report states I told the engineer that the ISP reset the line when it was him that told me that and that BT wouldn't reset the line.
If it drops again I think I'll just cancel with IDnet and move somewhere else as the line isn't supplying what it's supposed to currently and if it drops below 15mb again that's under the threshold. One thing's for sure, whatever the outcome, as soon as I'm free of my contract I'm moving ISP. Support just don't give a sh*t anymore.
Meanwhile I'm off out so I'll power down the OR modem until I come back in a few hours.
Niall I would advise that you sent up a Thinkbroadband Quality Monitor if you haven't already. With this you can post snap shots of it to the forum which might then give an indication of what is happening to your line and some of the experts here may be able to offer you further assistance.
I gather AAISP is somewhat renowned for giving BT grief over faults and getting them fixed so might be worth moving to them at least in the short term to get things fixed up.
It's a 12 month contract for FTTC connections Mitch, so I think Niall only options would be if the contract was cancelled or he bought out the contract, I can't see either are likely.
He does seem to be having a hard time though
Quote from: pctech on Feb 18, 2013, 18:36:52
He does seem to be having a hard time though
With what appears the same issue carrying over from adsl to FTtC
So the problem is either in the exchange, from the cabinet to the home (assuming the cabinets get a new exchange link when installed) or inside the home.
Niall has changed everything in his home, so that would leave the other 2, but the BT chaps can't see a problem as the line gets reset by someone unknown.
The DLM?
I think someone is being economical with the truth here and I don't mean Niall
Have you tried the collective wisdom of TBB, Niall?
I could probably supply an unlocked OR modem as I don't use it.
Thanks for the offer fella, I'm just going to leave things for a bit. This is getting me far too stressed on top of a family member with terminal cancer and a close family friend slowly dying from heart failure.
I just really don't need much more to deal with at the moment :(
You poor guy
My speed dropped today, ironically as I was downloading a random file to see what speed I was getting. I've lost another 2mb down to 22mb, and upload is 6mb.
I forgot to update this thread with everything going on and my birthday. Miriam phoned me out of the blue at some point last week (completely forgotten what day!) saying they're trying to find out what caused/causes the line to reset before every visit, amongst other things. I've not heard anything back since so I don't know what's happening with Brian's search with BTs ticket system to find out who did what and why.
Basically after the last visit the line was reset and was giving me 24 down and 7 up it can't be looked at as a fault. So essentially I have to wait until it happens again, then hopefully IDnet will force BT to look for the ACTUAL problem as it's clear from what, 8 or 9 visits there's nothing they can test in my house and it's pointless running tests when they get here as SOMEONE keeps resetting the line so it shows as fine.
One of the things that bugs me is that if the line is fine and there's nothing they can see has having an issue, then how do they explain that the speed has dropped from 34mb to 22mb, or when it was at it's worst, 8.4mb? Obviously something has gone wrong for it to drop to that extent. BT CLAIM the cabinet is fine and the exchange is fine (which they initially said was the source of the fault, and incidentally they have blamed on several previous occasions, then the line resets, engineer turns up - bingo, no problems for them to fix) and lets give them the benefit of the doubt, although I'm not sure why I should, and they're not lying, then that leaves the copper from the cabinet to my house.
My next question that I've asked about 8 times now and no one has answered, which is REALLY annoying me now, is WHY AM I ON A CABINET HALF A MILE FROM MY HOUSE WHEN THERE IS ONE 300 YARDS AWAY? How about they switch me from the cabinet half a mile away to the one nearer me to see what happens? Surely a year and a half of me contacting support should be enough for a request to BT to at least try this? I've no idea what the cabinet number is near me as there's nothing written on it, or the telephony one next to it (unless a do not litter sticker counts!). Even if BT say there would be a charge to the ISP, surely the ISP could challenge this citing a laundry list of fault queries since being moved to the cabinet half a mile away, on both ADSL+ and FTTC?
I'm getting 7mb more on FTTC for a big jump in price than I was on ADSL+ before the problems started. Surely to god that tells SOMEONE there's an issue. 15mb on ADSL, 22mb on FTTC. Yeah, that works :-\
Quote from: Niall on Feb 25, 2013, 13:45:52One of the things that bugs me is that if the line is fine and there's nothing they can see has having an issue, then how do they explain that the speed has dropped from 34mb to 22mb, or when it was at it's worst, 8.4mb?
Yeah it's frustrating. I'm in a similar boat but thankfully nothing like as bad. This morning when I was asked to try a temporary log in which seemed to prove it's not associated with my account or IP address. Unfortunately the switch back showed that the problem had cleared so we're stumped again now.
So we've eliminated my router, my line, the BTor network, BRAS and IDNet. There's not a whole lot left now. I'm guessing something running in the cab that only affects my port but it seems impossible to talk to the people that 'own' the cab.
Yeah I'm in a similar boat. However I'm not happy to let this lie. Personally I believe the ISP should query BT as to why I'm on the cabinet I am on, also why they removed the cabinet on my estate and connected me to one half a mile away without consulting any residents in the area either. I only found out by accident that this is almost certainly what is causing the issue.
The thing that annoys me the most is that I am the one that's done all the running around, had all the costs, all the stress, all the time off work and it's an issue BT and my ISP should sort. Clearly the fault is with the something in the physical line from the point it leaves my house to the point it reaches the cabinet. As my cabinet was removed from the estate that removes the chances of it being the copper from my house to at least the end of the cul-de-sac estate, so that's leaving just under half a mile for BT to look at and inform IDnet what the issue is. Now, if BT don't want to do this, they should put me on the cabinet 300 yards away, that will save them from faffing around (to be VERY polite) with the rest of the line.
I really think that for the money I'm paying things should be moving a lot quicker with BT, but they just don't care. I do, and I want my monies worth as I'm damn well not getting it. Also you can put money on the fact that no one will be giving me any money back for all the products I've had to buy to rule out things on my side. Funnily enough, when I've mention this along with the cabinet query on my emails to support, neither question is ever answered.
Sorry to hear about all your issues Niall. Not sure its up to the iSP to query what cab you are on though :-\ that depends how you are wired up on BT's system surely? Your copper may go nowhere near that cab, I don't know the logistics but if your line is older then it may be terminated at a cab that's much father away as that's how it was set up when the line was put in. The cab that's nearer may be for other BT lines that were put in since yours, and changing cabs may involve a lot of work, work that's not financially viable for one line. :dunno:
Not really sure. I do know that from watching an old video of the area, the houses by the nearer cab were there first, before my estate, but only a handful of them. As I mentioned, my estate had it's own cabinet for 35 years until BT removed it with no warning, or advice to anyone around here. This is why I was annoyed, as it was only by pure chance that I found out that the little box there now is just a cap, not an active cabinet, and we've been rerouted to one half a mile away. Bearing in mind the way the housing appeared in this area, it stands to reason that the nearer cabinet would be the one I should be connected to. They have had to dig up the main road to connect the fibre from there, to the other side, so the copper lines would be running along the left side of the main road pretty much all the way into town. That would make sense considering the work done on the roads recently.
I suppose it's possible that BT leave a certain amount free on a cabinet, but where the one 300 yards away is, there is no possibility of further lines being connected as there is no more land to build on in the area.
Again, this is all guess work as no one is telling me anything.
Well I've waited nearly 4 weeks since being called by Myriam who said Brian was looking into who was resetting the line before engineers arrived at the property, and I've heard nothing.
Hmm.
Also, my line is slowly losing speed. It's now down to just over 20mb and the upload has dropped to 5.77mb (as of 10 mins ago).
Hi Niall,
I assure you we have not forgotten you!
I am repeatedly chasing our account manager for an answer to the following, taken from my email to him:
'Do BT reset the SNR of a line prior to a site visit as standard procedure?
If so, how do we make sure this does not happen next time as this makes the circuit appear fine to the engineer that attends only for the circuit to drop again within a few days.
Why would this customer be connected to a cab half a mile from his home when there is one 300m away?
Is there anyway of having him switched to the nearer cab?
The customer has taken several days off work to be available for engineer visits only for the line to be reset before the engineer attends and the case be marked as FNF and chargeable. He has tested everything possible to rule out a local issue and we repeatedly pass the case back to BT but continue to go around in circles.
We have asked all of these questions during the fault procedure but do not get an answer.'
I have also called and left him several messages to respond asap, unfortunately BT stretch their account managers to the limit assigning them up to 80 accounts in some cases which is why responses do not always come quickly.
As discussed in our call some weeks ago, regardless of waiting for the account managers response, if you are seeing the issue again please contact Support so we can relog the case and get it escalated for you. This will get your case in the hands of a team leader/manager within BTs faults team as a repeat case and hopefully avoid another useless engineering visit.
Kind regards,
Miriam
IDNet
Thanks for the reply, and sorry for my late reply. Busy day!
Hi Niall,
Tried to call you today. I have noticed your circuit is on Super Stable, it appears we added this for you back when you were on ADSL2+ but when switching you to FTTC it carried over.
Super stable will hold sync rate down to maintain the stability of a circuit so removing this may help however, the availability checker shows maximum sync your line would support is 27MB, you are currently syncing at 20MB so i think its worth a try unless you feel the Super Stable should remain?
Regards,
Miriam
IDNet Support
I'm all for anything that fixes the issues, so yes by all means try it :)
I've never heard of super stable, and in all my previous calls to support not a single person has mentioned this before!
Super stable is where Superman has his horses. ;D
:laugh: :grn:
That sounds just like Rhosddu so it must be right >:D
Quote from: Niall on Mar 22, 2013, 21:13:23I've never heard of super stable, and in all my previous calls to support not a single person has mentioned this before!
It's one of the few things (possibly the only thing) that an ISP can ask BT to do to 'adjust' an FTTC connection. I think they get a choice of three settings 'fast', 'stable' and 'super stable'. As with all forms of DSL you trade speed for stability or vice versa ;)
I was only ever told of interleaving :)
Hi Niall,
I have submitted the request to remove Super Stable, this should complete in 24 hours.
Regards,
Miriam
IDNet Support
Some information for you Niall
BT Wholesale Broadband Connect FTTC Stability Options
Stability Option | Description | Application |
Standard | Allows a CP to offer a higher
line rate, by allowing the line
to have a lower stability
target than the Stable
Option provides. | This is the default level of
stability, which would be
more suitable for best
efforts type applications. |
Stable | This setting - aims to keep
the line working with only a
few errored seconds and
retrains each day | Offers a higher level of
stability and error
performance |
Super Stable | This option allows CPs to
offer a higher level of
stability by using increased
error protection. The line will
work at a lower speed than
the Stable option and at
times it may give rise to
increased latency. | Offers the maximum level
of stability and is more
suitable for applications
which require very good
error performance and a
higher level of line stability
(e.g. video). |
That may explain why my ping times suddenly doubled after having interleaving turned off. Initially I was seeing 14ms then it went to 44ms and after someone reset my line, it went to 33ms.
Thanks for the info Myriam and paint shop pro83 :p
Quote from: Niall on Mar 25, 2013, 18:30:42
That may explain why my ping times suddenly doubled after having interleaving turned off. Initially I was seeing 14ms then it went to 44ms and after someone reset my line, it went to 33ms.
Thanks for the info Myriam and paint shop pro83 :p
Haha that's a new one, normally get called "PlayStation Portable" :P
PSP is actually my initials and 83 is my birth year :P
83? Bloody kids! :)x
You do :o wait until you get to my age :eek4:
I'm 30 in May... I'm old :-\
:out:
;D
Quote from: Niall on Mar 25, 2013, 18:30:42
That may explain why my ping times suddenly doubled after having interleaving turned off. Initially I was seeing 14ms then it went to 44ms and after someone reset my line, it went to 33ms.
Did BT changing the setting help your line?
Don't know, I'm in London at the moment. I'll check when I'm back tomorrow night :)
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/2623257381.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Doesn't seem to have made a bit of difference. Ping is still double what it should be too.
I think it'll be 2 months at the end of next week and I've still heard nothing about why I'm on the wrong cabinet.
This might be a stupid thing to say (I like to be consistent ;D), but could the cabinet nearer to you be 'full'? :dunno:
I wouldn't, and don't know!
If anything though, in theory there would be less on it as there are less houses up this way. The one I'm on is in a more central area. It's more likely it's not been activated or wasn't when my connection was set up. If it's the latter then I'd like the line moved to that one. I should at least have that done by them after they shafted my line without a seconds thought to the residents on my estate.
Quote from: Niall on Apr 04, 2013, 22:41:27
I wouldn't, and don't know!
If anything though, in theory there would be less on it as there are less houses up this way. The one I'm on is in a more central area. It's more likely it's not been activated or wasn't when my connection was set up. If it's the latter then I'd like the line moved to that one. I should at least have that done by them after they shafted my line without a seconds thought to the residents on my estate.
Because there is less houses doesn't mean BT haven't connected people to it that's further away, a bit like yours..
Yeah, BT are stupid like that, my line takes the long way round to the cab I'm on, its around 550m now, if the lines went the other way it would be around 300m..
But saying that, BT did re-route my line to the cab around the corner when I had FTTC installed but that's because my line went through 2 PCP's.. (no idea why)
Well today it's 8 weeks. Utterly pathetic that BT have not contacted IDnet, or I haven't been told of what's going on.
Incidentally my speeds have been all over the place. I was doing speed tests the other night and one second I was getting 19mb and the next 28mb. Completely all over the place.
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/2649954489.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Seems more stable since though, so no idea what that was about.
Anyway, I appreciate that I was told that BT told support that they have the queries raised with an accounts manager at BT that deals with about 54 cases, but EIGHT WEEKS? Give me a break. Looks like another ticket is in order.
Incidentally, my mate just got FTTC and is half the distance from his cabinet that I am (and should be if connected to the nearer cabinet) and is getting 70mb! My other mate on Sky is slightly closer than I am now (by about 200ft) and is getting 10mb more than I am and his upload is double what I'm seeing. All this pleases me no end ::)
That's BT for you. We're in the process of getting a leased line to our office park. It involves blowing fibre through existing ducting. We were originally given a completion date of April 25th. Then we had a week of cold weather (no snow, just bitterly cold) and now we've been informed that the cold weather has pushed the date back to May 30th. Order was placed first week of January with a 90 day timescale.
They also made a comment about ECCs (Excess Construction Charges). The previous update had said there'd be no ECCs and in fact they might waive all charges because it's a brown field site. We queried the recent missive and they went back to saying there'd be no ECCs. The best bit - you don't know if there will be ECCs until they complete the order. You can't get even an initial quote from them unless you place an order and you're more or less committed at that point.
After all that I have a feeling that once it's in place since it's coming via the cabinet in the village our village will suddenly get FTTC anyway which is all we really need. I hope the locals will be grateful and at least give us some free drinks in the pub :)
The cost is looking like £12k for a 40Mb/s connection on 100Mb/s bearer. There's four of us sharing it at £300 pcm for minimum of symmetrical 10Mb/s with bursting up to whatever is available at the time. Not really all that expensive. We're just outside a small village itself about two miles from the nearest town.
Hi Niall,
When the account manager finally responded it was to direct us to an Openreach Product Mananger, when said product manager finally responded it was to direct us to a Customer Network Solutions department and complete a form. I have this morning received their response to my form which requested a statement from BT as to why a customer cannot be switched to an alternate cabinet and what reason is there for a customer to be connected to one cabinet rather that another if there are two near by.
Their answer: .
'We do not change customer cabinet cable distribution. I'm sure you can understand the Openreach network is complex and re-routing is not straight forward. Lines are routed via the most suitable cabinet at the time of roll out'
I'm sorry that after 8 weeks of going from department to department we get this response, i was hoping to offer better news but it appears that they practice a hard-line stance on this.
With regards to your ongoing issue, I did state if you are still experiencing issues to please contact us so we can have the case passed to BT and escalated, we have people at BT ready to accept the escalation, look over it with fresh eyes and ensure that no resets are carried out should an engineer be arranged.
Regards,
Miriam
IDNet Support
I would have thought potential evidence of reset could be seen as a re sync prior to the engineers visit not confirmatory but suspicious nevertheless.Should you elect for another engineer Niall would be worth running a ThinkBroad Quality Monitor around that time.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 17, 2013, 16:44:25
I would have thought potential evidence of reset could be seen as a re sync prior to the engineers visit not confirmatory but suspicious nevertheless.Should you elect for another engineer Niall would be worth running a ThinkBroad Quality Monitor around that time.
From what I have been told Steve BTw take as much notice of a Think Broadband meter as much as the engineers notes. BTw don't seem to pass all the info on they keep it themselves, this I have been told by my engineer friend and the last two engineers to visit, and if I had a quality meter they would ignore it as they can see alot of that stuff via their laptops anyway on your log history <sigh> Unless they can see a fault nothing seems to happen, even if they know there is one. IDnet saw my line drop yesterday to 1.8 db at 1pm from 6.1db ish then sent the info via a test to Btw and still they want to send out yet another engineer after the last one said to lift and shift onto a new card and run my line off the nearest pole but that info does not get back to the people it needs to...
It all seems a bit pointless when someone is blatantly lying through their teeth. The two cabinets were installed at the same time. The 'route' they're now BSing about is a straight line. Evidence? THEY DUG THE ROAD UP IN A STRAIGHT LINE TO CONNECT THEM. They've basically cocked up and don't want to admit it, don't give a sh*t about customers or their experience and now YET AGAIN I have to wait for things to go pear shaped again, wait for them to reset the line again and start lying so I end up pissing more time and money away.
Great isn't it? I get to do all the messing around, go through all the stress of being treated like sh*t or a liar, spending money replacing part after part after part, then after all this it becomes clear it was BT all along and still I'm out of pocket, I don't get what I pay for due to the line being cr*p somewhere on the main road, yet I have to proove the line is cr*p? Yeah that's magnificent thinking BT you scum.
Now I'm stuck in a 12 month contract. Awesome. Support surely have a record of everything that's gone on with my line, both phone lines, etc over the years I've been with them and for some reason BT wont actually do anything despite support telling them all this (well I assume support have told them all this, I've had no evidence of this actually happening).
I know to some with very poor ADSL or whatever may be baffled at my unhappiness with a 28mb line, but that's not what I have an issue with, it's 2 years of being lied to by whoever is lying to me and just getting a "yeah we really don't give a sh*t now, we've had your money off your ISP" answer. The added insult is that the line is stable now so they won't look at it.
Seriously, what's the friggin point in even trying? No one gives a sh*t about service or respect anymore.
Despite it all though, you do still have a 28Mb connection. Is it really worth the stress of pursuing this further? I've been down similar roads with big companies, and you're right, they really don't give a sh*t about us as individual customers, but at the end of the day, you'll never beat them, and you have a life to get on with living, a guitar to get on with playing, and beer to get on with drinking. ;D All you can do, if you can't live with BT, is go eleswhere for the service. Do you have Sky or Virgin in your area? Would they be any better? :dunno:
I know you are missing speed Niall but as Simon says you have 28Mb connection, some people would love that. BTw work in odd ways and IDNet really help as much as they can, but in the end sometimes you have to say enough is enough, stress is not good for you, you have a working line maybe be happy with what you do have and just say **** it and walk away and enjoy that 28Mb line, its more than most people need anyway really. :dunno:
Whilst I agree fully agree with the sentiments. However if you buy a Ferrari and it performs like a Fiesta would you be happy? Some would say yes as it at no risk of bursting into flames but the point is your line should work for the majority of the time to the maximum and not at half to two thirds of it's potential.
True enough, Steve, but one would notice if a Ferrari performed like a Fiesta. Setting aside the fact that yes, of course, BT should be delivering the promised service, and have clearly failed on many counts, is the difference between the 34Mb that Niall's line has been reported to be able to support, and the 28Mb he's currently achieving, actually that discernible? I'm not defending BT, but perhaps it would be wise to take a step back and look at things in perspective, rather than risk ill health from the stress of it all?