I really don't want to jump ship but these caps are causing all kinds of arguments in our house.My two daughters are 19 and 22 and they are almost on the internet 24/7....well maybe that is a bit of an exaggeration but you know what I mean with Facebook, Emails, downloading the latest American Sitcoms and the latest girlly movies and now what comes along Love Film. What can you do? I have tried sitting up to the wee small hours and downloading after twelve, that has worked but then you look at your quota and it's 30.1Gbs and we only have a couple of days left till the end of the month. Honestly, the caps are not generous enough for what is happening out there in the real world.
Please please please don't get me wrong Idnet are the Best Internet Service Provider in the whole world.....their customer service is second to none and even when we do go over our quota it's only £1 for a Gb......which honestly is not the worst penalty ....they even send you out a very polite almost apologetic Email notifying you that you have to pay the couple quid.
I really don't want to leave but please Idnet revisit your Caps.....there must be something you can do because I got a phone call the other night from a representative from BT who was offering me unlimited downloads for less money than I am already paying. Yes I know that BT are useless when it comes to customer Service but doesn't Idnet use the same network and if there is a problem on the network they send out a BT engineer to fix it. I wouldn't mind paying a wee bit more to get a much more generous allowance....I'm not saying go Unlimited but 30Gb is a bit low. A couple of years ago I would have said 30 Gbs was very generous but not now with the likes of Love Film and NetFlix and smart TVs. I would say there is an argument every month in our house trying to find out who is the culprit that downloaded/streamed too much.
Idnet Please look at this problem
There's no guarantee that IDNet will read your post here. You really need to email them direct, and see if there's anything they can do for you.
Thanks Simon for your reply.....I had already thought of that but I thought that they probably couldn't/wouldn't do anything if there was only one person having this problem whereas I was trying to find out if other people were having the same problem then maybe Idnet might do something.
One person leaving isn't going to have much effect on the situation
Guys.....what do you think of the Caps.....do you think they should be increased?
I really don't want to go to a dodgy company like BT......I used to be with one of their subsidiary's Plusnet and they were the worst in the world
Hi kerrso05
Have you considered upgrading to a different package? Not sure if you're on ADSL or Fibre but for a few £'s a month more you can get 50GB peak/ 150GB off-peak:
https://www.idnet.net/solutions/home/broadband/default-fibre.jsp
I'm also finding myself knocking up against the 30GB peak limit and starting to consider upgrading myself. IDNet recently increased the allowances on some of their packages but unfortunately not on Home Plus Fibre. :(
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,28623.msg0 (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,28623.msg0)
:welc: :karma:
:welc5: :karma:
Thanks! I'm a long-time lurker but decided it was time to register and start posting! :)
A good decision! :welc:
Quote from: nomad101 on May 31, 2012, 11:49:44
Hi kerrso05
Have you considered upgrading to a different package? Not sure if you're on ADSL or Fibre but for a few £'s a month more you can get 50GB peak/ 150GB off-peak:
https://www.idnet.net/solutions/home/broadband/default-fibre.jsp
I'm also finding myself knocking up against the 30GB peak limit and starting to consider upgrading myself. IDNet recently increased the allowances on some of their packages but unfortunately not on Home Plus Fibre. :(
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,28623.msg0 (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,28623.msg0)
Trust me, I'm on the 50/150 FTTC package and that doesn't last long with a 80/20 connection :(
I have to be careful what I use now & that is no streaming (iplayer, netflix, lovefilm etc) during peak hours.
Quote from: kerrso05 on May 31, 2012, 11:42:41
Thanks Simon for your reply.....I had already thought of that but I thought that they probably couldn't/wouldn't do anything if there was only one person having this problem whereas I was trying to find out if other people were having the same problem then maybe Idnet might do something.
One person leaving isn't going to have much effect on the situation
Guys.....what do you think of the Caps.....do you think they should be increased?
I really don't want to go to a dodgy company like BT......I used to be with one of their subsidiary's Plusnet and they were the worst in the world
A few people have already said about the peak bandwidth allowances being to low on the fibre product in another post a little while ago, can't remember what post it was though.
I'm also looking around for other ISP's and might leave once my 12 month contract is up at the end of the year.
Quote from: nomad101 on May 31, 2012, 11:49:44
Hi kerrso05
Have you considered upgrading to a different package? Not sure if you're on ADSL or Fibre but for a few £'s a month more you can get 50GB peak/ 150GB off-peak:
https://www.idnet.net/solutions/home/broadband/default-fibre.jsp
I'm also finding myself knocking up against the 30GB peak limit and starting to consider upgrading myself. IDNet recently increased the allowances on some of their packages but unfortunately not on Home Plus Fibre. :(
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,28623.msg0 (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,28623.msg0)
Thanks for all your posts............I have looked at the 50Gb peak limit but it wouldn't take long for the girls to smash that. If it was 60Gbs or 70Gbs I might consider it but it's nowhere near BT unlimited and I see that Zen (who are another good company like Idnet have 100Gbs and 200Gbs without the peak and off peak caps. The 200Gbs without peak and off peak caps.....sounds like it is a better deal. I also see that our local Broadcaster UTV do a Unlimited Fibre Optic deal but again I don't know anything about them (other than they make embarrassing cr*p TV) and again they have a fair Usage Scheme....which to these ears sounds like traffic shaping/controlling and I wouldn't want anything to do with that.
Come on IDNET do something about the Caps.......please....make them a wee bit more generous and more in keeping with what is happening in the real world...............with Netflix internet TV and downloading etc.
If the Government can do a Uturn surely Idnet can look at their policy and listen to their end users and change the caps.....please
Maybe a "fair usage policy" within the home might be something worth considering? ;)
Quote from: Simon on Jun 01, 2012, 06:57:20
Maybe a "fair usage policy" within the home might be something worth considering? ;)
I have already tried it by putting monitoring software on their Laptops (although can't do anything with their iPads and iPhones)............I mean how do you deal with an argument that goes along the lines of "Dad, (
name of boyfriend) he has unlimited Fibre from Sky whereas you have old fashioned fibre from some "old boys" internet provider...get REAL" and then she goes on to argue that there are 4 adults in the house who all want to either stream download, whatever with the internet and all we have to play with is (roughly) 1Gb a day.....and when she puts it like that I have little or no argument other than the main one "who do you think pays for this.....ME" and then she goes on to say "but Dad I only use 7Gbs a month....you can see that because you put the monitoring software on my laptop......Dad you need to waken up and smell the coffee.....you can have unlimited downloads for less money....you need to move"
So you can see from the above, I have little or no room to negotiate when comes to these caps......I don't think my point "but they are the best internet provider for customer care or they are the best Internet provider in the World"....cuts much ice when it comes to internet usage and their boyfriends have a provider that gives them unlimited usage (but gives them a load of other cr*p....which I don't want) :bawl:
No I'm sure I speak for most Fibre Optic Users within Idnet that they do need to get real and slightly up their very strict Caps or either go down the Zen path and have no off peak or peak usage......they can't compete against their main rivals BT and now Sky who are giving unlimited
Size matters. :(
You hit the nail on the head. It's the grocery argument: the corner shop has to compete with the big supermarket: result: loss of the corner shop but, quite frankly, to most consumers it makes no difference (well it does, actually, they get better choice at lower prices). I haven't seen a shred of evidence that IDNet or anyone else's FTTC support is any better than BT or the other big boys (and some evidence to the contrary, in fact). All the ADSL comparisons are irrelevant: VDSL2 to the cabinet uses different hardware and is inherently more stable and always dependent on Openreach (which does practice the equivalence that it preaches, and very well too).
I go out of my way to use services that allow me to download during off-peak rather than stream beacuse of IDNet's caps - I could equally well manage with lower traffic managed speeds and without the capping problem, but I then wouldn't choose IDNet as my provider; there are others that do it cheaper and as well. As for the myths about superior service: like witchcraft we should have left them behind in the medieval world. However good, IDNet are not a religion.
Going back to my grocery analogy: the small grocers that survive are those that cater to the minority "quality" market who survive on customers who are prepared to have a restricted choice (the local organics). I can't blame IDNet if they stick to their principles on this one.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 01, 2012, 09:16:03
Size matters. :(
A shrinking user base won't help :( I use almost all my 50GB sometimes, and never touch the 150GB really, who wants to stream a film after midnight when you want to watch one during the evening when you are actually awake. Along with all my other bandwidth eating devices this peak/off peak is killing me, Zen really does seem to be the only option unless there is a big change in tariff structuring at IDnet, and tbh I can't see that changing as they have their business model and are really modelled for actual businesses than home users I would guess. What really gets me is so many friends laugh at the price I pay, before I could say yes but the level of support is outstanding, but that's changed too.
In times of tightening belts IDNet are expensive, and really the support seems no where near as good as it was a few years back, when they forget my domain mail is with them and tell me they cant deal with third party domains, and I specifically
told them in my email my domain is on their servers, I can't help but feel somewhat dismayed. I don't want to change, but I fear the days of the cosy IDNet customer relations are gone, times have changed.
like meryl I also go out of my way to use services that allow me to download during off-peak rather than stream....but....little good it does me (except sleep deprivation) when the rest of my family stream during the day.
I also can't blame IDNet if they stick to their principles on this one but I'm not asking them to go to Unlimited like BT and Sky does because they will never compete with the Big Boys but surely they can compete with the likes of Zen. I'm not asking for the earth I'm just asking for them to re-look at their business model for home users in respect of Fibre otherwise our beloved Idnet will lose their loyal customers....who said it wasn't a religion (only joking).....to me it is more a loving concerned community that wants to look after it's customers.....well at least i'm :fingers: they do
Quote from: Rik on Jun 01, 2012, 09:16:03
Size matters. :(
In the consumer space I think you're right and the days of the small consumer ISP are probably numbered. The only way out is for them to become a B2B supplier.
Timico realised this a while ago and are setting themselves up as a pure business ISP dealing in integrated comms for business. One supplier to give you SIP, Internet and hosting, with as much integration as you want. Private VPN across multiple sites, check. SIP phones linked over multiple sites with integrated mobile systems, check. Throw cloud services into the mix and this is the way to go. Businesses tend to prioritise service and reliability over cheap since the continued existence of the business may well depend on it. I don't doubt Zen are looking at this sort of thing with the opening of their new datacentre.
As I see it, this is probably the only way a small ISP will survive, any consumers who want to sign up may do so, but they will pay a price (or a long term contract) that most consumers (including prosumers) will probably find uneconomic. The current age of austerity means that more people are going to be looking for *cheap* and considerations of what constitutes value will vanish through economic necessity.
Quote from: mervl on Jun 01, 2012, 10:03:07I haven't seen a shred of evidence that IDNet or anyone else's FTTC support is any better than BT or the other big boys (and some evidence to the contrary, in fact).
I'm an FTTC refugee from Be and although I have no real complaint about IDNet support it is definitely not the best I've come across.
The problems I've had IDNet deal with so far are:
* The wrong email was being used. They suggested going into the member centre to fix it. :eyebrow:
* My member centre details suddenly reverted to the defaults. They have never explained why just suggested that if I change the details over the phone they might 'stick' better. :slap:
* It took a full 24 hours for them to change the reverse DNS for my IP address. :shake:
* There was something else I needed them to do that also took 24 hours. The worse of both of those issues was that it was 24 hours of silence while my request sat in a queue waiting its turn :mad:
It's not what I'd call bad but nothing compared to Be where you could have a laugh with the staff. You only have to look at how the Be staff are handling the current customer exodus. Wishing them well, encouraging discussions on the merits of FTTC and politely just dropping in the odd 'hope you come back to us if/when we do FTTC'.
FYI: https://help.bethere.co.uk/help/support/geographical
Not to mention IRC and the forums where Be staff hang out. For the record it's that friendly attitude and community spirit that will make me go flying back to Be just as soon as they offer FTTC. I don't need the unlimited bandwidth (looks like 15GB peak is plenty for me) but I do like feeling 'part of the family'.
Yep, just to try and lighten the gloom, I'm a newbie with direct experience of IDNet since August last year (on FTTC). Their part of the network is superb for reliability and quality as far as I'm concerned, so too for me the reliability of the Openreach local loop (to my surprise after the disaster of a decade ago); both let down by BTWholesale (who seem a bit like Network Rail: endless engineering works). Trouble is, the IDNet network could be the least important factor affecting my use so the practical difference with the competition is not much (and even a bit of their network congestion might not affect my use too much). Use Sky's backhaul (which my second connection does) and you avoid even the BT Wholesale let-down.
Quote from: mervl on Jun 01, 2012, 12:52:15
Yep, just to try and lighten the gloom,
Well I'd like to say I'm not unhappy with IDNet. It's doing everything I expected and wanted. I'm just missing the community spirit a bit :)
Whiskey, gin or vodka? ;D
Quote from: Rik on Jun 01, 2012, 13:56:19
Whiskey, gin or vodka? ;D
Whisky. I prefer not have either ice or a spurious 'e' in mine :laugh:
Just testing. ;D
Sky will only remain unlimited until they reach a certain amount of users with the same usage habits, then like those before them they will introduce a fair usage policy which will allow them to use traffic management or other network management techniques.
Quote from: pctech on Jun 01, 2012, 16:07:52
Sky will only remain unlimited until they reach a certain amount of users with the same usage habits, then like those before them they will introduce a fair usage policy which will allow them to use traffic management or other network management techniques.
Yes, I'm sure you are right, I'm sure they will entice you in and introduce some sort of Traffic Management but at the moment they haven't from what my daughter's boyfriend is saying but it is very early days.....but as I keep saying I'm not expecting Idnet to go unlimited because they can't compete with the big boys but surely they can compete with the other minnows like Zen etc
By the way I was also wondering how UTV can give unlimited but when you look deeper into it they have a fair usage policy.....no definitely, been there done that and got the tee-shirt.....definitely not going down that road.........I would rather have caps (and that is saying something) than go to a new IP who has a FUP
I don't know if anyone has seen this comparison Spreadsheet or not but it makes interesting reading. Any comments
http://bit.ly/KEamit (http://bit.ly/KEamit)
I'm sure if IDNet were to make Weekends 'Off Peak', along with changing the weekday timings to 9 - 9, it would go along way to easing the pain for some.
I agree Glenn, The spreadsheet is difficult for me to compare , unless I've misread it Zen's quoted figures are out of date. I guess it was correct at publication whenever that was. :dunno:
:whistle: I just wonder if a loosening of caps before the Olympics might be asking for it, but assuming the network stands up well during the Event, then afterwards might be a different story?
We've had the discussion previously regarding Sky, but my understanding is that they've recently been investing massively in the backhaul network they inherited on the Easynet acquisition. Their history is they don't do things by halves, they just have a problem with creative content. (And they don't "do" the business market, which is the Easynet province).
Quote from: Glenn on Jun 01, 2012, 18:05:45
I'm sure if IDNet were to make Weekends 'Off Peak', along with changing the weekday timings to 9 - 9, it would go along way to easing the pain for some.
Something like that, yes. It isn't directly affecting me at the moment but as I wrote in another thread it currently appears that 'on peak' means 'when you're awake' which sucks a bit :-\
As for Sky that was my second choice (I have Sky HD so would benefit from bundling). Unfortunately they don't do static IP and at the time at least only did 2Mb/s upload.
I don't know when that spreadsheet was first written.....I do think it is out of date and I'm sure if I looked harder I would find find an more up-to date copy but it does make you think...........and to be honest Idnet aren't too bad on the chart
Quote from: Glenn on Jun 01, 2012, 18:05:45
I'm sure if IDNet were to make Weekends 'Off Peak', along with changing the weekday timings to 9 - 9, it would go along way to easing the pain for some.
Yes Glenn that would do it ....that would ease the pressure in this house. When is that proposal coming forward???
No idea, I just thought of it. It would be upto IDNet to cost and make any changes, the admins here are just like you, customers.
My feeling is that in order for me to change my internet usage with daytime streaming etc I could go unlimited with BT or Sky and take a possible risk on the 18 month contract or prepare to spend a fair bit more per month i.e. Zen Fibre Pro 200Gb. Neither seems to fit comfortably for me . I do use the off peak early in a morning and I don't watch a lot of TV .
Quote from: Glenn on Jun 01, 2012, 18:35:52
No idea, I just thought of it. It would be upto IDNet to cost and make any changes, the admins here are just like you, customers.
Didn't IdNet get badly burned a couple of years back when they gave an unlimited concession over the Christmas holiday? "One bitten, twice shy" comes to mind so I'd have thought a controlled loosening of caps might be a more likely option? I too am saved by the breakfast off-peak.
Quote from: Glenn on Jun 01, 2012, 18:35:52
No idea, I just thought of it. It would be upto IDNet to cost and make any changes, the admins here are just like you, customers.
Yes I know they are like me customers....I'm just having a :laugh:
Genuinely I do think it is a good idea
QuoteDidn't IdNet get badly burned a couple of years back when they gave an unlimited concession over the Christmas holiday? "One bitten, twice shy" comes to mind so I'd have thought a controlled loosening of caps might be a more likely option?
I don't remember anything about that but I do remember they did give this unlimited usage for a couple of days ......did they get burned
Quote from: mervl on Jun 01, 2012, 18:51:10
Didn't IdNet get badly burned a couple of years back when they gave an unlimited concession over the Christmas holiday? "One bitten, twice shy" comes to mind so I'd have thought a controlled loosening of caps might be a more likely option? I too am saved by the breakfast off-peak.
Mervl, my plan wouldn't be unlimited usage, it would be using the 'off peak' allowance that you pay for but rarely use.
If you give something like bandwidth away which is one of your main products then unfortunately there will always be a minority that will abuse it and ruin it for the rest of the customer base.
Personally I'd have disabled their logins and presented them with a bill for the ridiculous excess they had used, only upon payment being received and cleared would I have reenabled their accounts on the RADIUS servers.
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 01, 2012, 18:55:34
I do remember they did give this unlimited usage for a couple of days ......did they get burned
They gave unlimited usage over the Christmas/New Year holiday period a couple of years ago and, the fact they didn't repeat it suggests they did get burned.
Quote from: Glenn on Jun 01, 2012, 18:58:20
Mervl, my plan wouldn't be unlimited usage, it would be using the 'off peak' allowance that you pay for but rarely use.
Yep I realised, but say on Home FibrePlus the 90GB off-peak limit was available from 9pm and at weekends all day, then wouldn't everybody's use immediately jump to the full limit, and all used during the evening/afternoon "peaks" rather than spread out across the off-peak? And would that be a likely problem? I'd have thought so.
Idnet have to pay BT an enourmous amount for the data they use over their networks and they have to charge their own customers the right amounts to cover that useage. If they allowed unlimited useage then the costs for the customer would mean very few customers. BT charges seem to differ from isp to isp as well, it seems.
Quote from: Glenn on Jun 01, 2012, 18:05:45
I'm sure if IDNet were to make Weekends 'Off Peak', along with changing the weekday timings to 9 - 9, it would go along way to easing the pain for some.
You might like to look at ADSL24's new offering:
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4128230-adsl24-new-fttc-products-including-8020-service.html
Not cheap, but an off-peak of 8pm to 8am and all weekend with unlimited off-peak usage. it's very tempting....
Quote from: pctech on Jun 01, 2012, 19:00:22
If you give something like bandwidth away which is one of your main products then unfortunately there will always be a minority that will abuse it and ruin it for the rest of the customer base.
Personally I'd have disabled their logins and presented them with a bill for the ridiculous excess they had used, only upon payment being received and cleared would I have reenabled their accounts on the RADIUS servers.
Or give them a polite warning. You know, saying "unlimited" kind of gets people in the opinion you mean "unlimited". If they said "double allowance" or "Unlimited off peak" etc, then people would not use it unlimited all the time. :dunno:
Basically, there is a near unlimited amount of free content available now with the likes of Youtube etc. If you offer it, people will take you up on it.
Bill
Wow, ADSL24 new offering is certainly a very tempting offer especially as my eldest daughter doesn't get home from work until after 7pm, she would only have to wait till 8pm and then stream till her wee hearts content, it certainly would get her off my back and stop her whining....now why doesn't Idnet look at something like....maybe they are and we don't know anything about it!!!
The only problem I have with ADSL24 is I don't know anything about them, I've never heard of them till now, are they a fly by night company who draws you in with special offers and then hikes the prices up? Do they have a fair usage policy, traffic shaping etc or are they one of the goodies like Zen, Idnet? That 8pm till 8am is really very good....I would say that is as good as it gets for the small IP companies.
Come on Idnet please (if you are watching this thread) take a look at your caps and make some announcement on possible changes before offers like ADSL24's snatches your loyal customer base away......they have thrown the gauntlet down are you going to take up the challenge?............I for one, hope you do, I am :fingers:you do
you get what you pay for I guess.Im happy paying the price IDNet charge, I like the good service.
I remember that IDNet did increase the package allowances a while back didnt they?
or Harry, get your daughters to contribute to the bill when you go over then may be they'll slow down a bit :)
Quote from: pctech on Jun 01, 2012, 16:07:52
Sky will only remain unlimited until they reach a certain amount of users with the same usage habits, then like those before them they will introduce a fair usage policy which will allow them to use traffic management or other network management techniques.
They run with their huge anytime+ sky VOD service downloading programs in SD at 500mb or more and have for the last year of two happily, I think they have invested in they network pretty well tbh.
Quote from: Gary on Jun 02, 2012, 08:55:58
They run with their huge anytime+ sky VOD service downloading programs in SD at 500mb or more and have for the last year of two happily, I think they have invested in they network pretty well tbh.
Not forgetting that Sky own Easynet. That means they are in a very good position when it comes to managing backhaul. They probably don't need BT at all at most exchanges. TalkTalk is similar although with TalkTalk you risk having to deal with diabolical technical support.
But yeah it's definitely a case of you get what you pay for. It's just that Sky, TalkTalk and BT can subsidise their broadband from other services. Sky in particular with their satellite TV. Smaller providers can offer true unlimited - like Be - but it's not cheap and they still have a FUP even if no-one has ever been hit with it. I think the reason they haven't gone FTTC is price. I think one of their blogs said that for true unlimited they'd be looking at charging £50pcm.
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 02, 2012, 00:55:10
The only problem I have with ADSL24 is I don't know anything about them, I've never heard of them till now, are they a fly by night company who draws you in with special offers and then hikes the prices up?
They've been around for quite a while- posting on thinkbroadband since late 2006, and according to their website (http://adsl24.co.uk/about/) they've been in the business (as part of a larger group) for over 20 years- a few years longer than IDNet in fact :P
As far as I can tell from their tbb posts they seem pretty helpful, but if anyone thinks I'm going to put my neck on the block and positively recommend them then dream on, sunshine ;D
QuoteDo they have a fair usage policy, traffic shaping etc or are they one of the goodies like Zen, Idnet?
They claim no throttling or port blocking. I can't find any mention of an FUP, but like all ISPs they do have an AUP- here (http://adsl24.co.uk/terms/) (scroll down about 80% of the page). I haven't gone through them in detail, but it looks broadly similar to IDNet's T&Cs.
Static IP as standard too... I'd be at least tentatively inclined to put them in the same camp as the good ones you mention. There's certainly no
obvious elephant traps.
edit- can't find any mention of IPv6... not necessarily a deal-killer, but not irrelevant for me. Time for me to ask some questions, I think.
Quote from: Baz on Jun 02, 2012, 08:06:20
I remember that IDNet did increase the package allowances a while back didnt they?
But not for fttc customers
dont know about that as its not my package but I was just saying that they have done something, also is the original poster asking about FTTC or just general allowances :dunno:
Quote from: Baz on Jun 02, 2012, 13:53:48is the original poster asking about FTTC or just general allowances :dunno:
Well, it's in the FTTC forum not the general one...
True ;D.
What I'd like to know are ISPs like ADSL24 and NewNet for that fact using BT backbone for their off peak FTTC unlimited usage? I believe ADSL24 use the Daisy wholesale network (formally Murphx) for their adsl offerings which I think ??? uses the TT LLU backbone.
FTTC providers such as AAISP,Zen and IDNet do not have unlimited off peak downloads but they have always had an association with BTw and its backbone. Is this perhaps one reason for the potential difference in allowances.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 02, 2012, 14:16:28
What I'd like to know are ISPs like ADSL24 and NewNet for that fact using BT backbone for their off peak FTTC unlimited usage? I believe ADSL24 use the Daisy wholesale network (formally Murphx) for their adsl offerings which I think ??? uses the TT LLU backbone.
Good questions... as far as I can discover with a (not particularly thorough) search on tbb, ADSL24 use Daisy but in turn I think Daisy use BT's WBC for fibre, not TT. I stand ready to be corrected however.
QuoteFTTC providers such as AAISP,Zen and IDNet do not have unlimited off peak downloads but they have always had an association with BTw and its backbone. Is this perhaps one reason for the potential difference in allowances.
It could well be but, with no intended disrespect to IDNet, I'm more interested in my allowances than their associations!
Quote from: Baz on Jun 02, 2012, 13:53:48
also is the original poster asking about FTTC or just general allowances :dunno:
I don't mean to be cheeky but why would I be on this part of the Forum if I was talking about general allowances. Just to make it right and keep everybody up-to date (because somebody else asked this) I am on Fibre Optic and my package is:-
Package: Home Plus Fibre
Bandwidth Allowance: 120GB Total (Peak: 30GB / Off Peak: 90GB )
Package Monthly Cost: £28.58 (£23.82 ex vat)As far as I am aware this hasn't changed since I took it up nearly a year ago
The best deal so far has been Bills suggestion which is ADSL24 http://adsl24.co.uk/broadband/home/ (http://adsl24.co.uk/broadband/home/) but I'm still holding up for Idnet to come to the rescue. There's an old saying in Northern Ireland which is always very true
"Better the Devil :evil: you know than the Devil :evil: you don't"Yes I could move up to the next level and pay £35 but I have been paying in the 20s for the last number of years and I really don't want pay any more than I am doing..........yes I know everything is going up with austerity but I don't have to follow that trend.
What I have noticed about this discussion (good to talk) is that most people on here want the same thing as me they want Idnet to re-look at the caps and see if there is some way to raise them and I don't mean go the way of BT, Sky and Plusnet etc and gives us unlimited.....that would probably bankrupt them....there must be room for movement
QuoteIt could well be but, with no intended disrespect to IDNet, I'm more interested in my allowances than their associations!
Totally agree Bill, I'm not interested in their associations, they could be with the mafia for all I care, it's the allowances, that's what I am on about here, the Allowances......they are too small
In fairness to IDNet, they are willing to upgrade 40/10 FTTC to 80/20 FTTC on request. That said, like most things to do with Broadband, it is only of benefit to customers on a short copper link to their FTTC cabinet.
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 02, 2012, 15:01:22
What I have noticed about this discussion (good to talk) is that most people on here want the same thing as me they want Idnet to re-look at the caps and see if there is some way to raise them and I don't mean go the way of BT, Sky and Plusnet etc and gives us unlimited.....that would probably bankrupt them....there must be room for movement
Interpreting "caps" a different way, and bringing in the peak/off-peak times... my total allowance is 150GB. That's more than plenty for me, it's the peak times that are beginning to be a concern- for the first time since I've been online I'm having to think before I download a film or watch a catch-up.
And I don't have children around, let alone teenagers!
Even the ADSL24 hours aren't ideal- being retired a lot of my catching-up is done during the day, ie office hours, so off-peak starting at 8pm is better than midnight but...
OTOH the off-peak all weekend would definitely be a plus.
I'd be happy if my total allowance were
reduced to 100GB, or even (maybe :P) 75GB, if I didn't have to worry about whether I was in peak time or not!
Quote from: Ardua on Jun 02, 2012, 15:11:37
In fairness to IDNet, they are willing to upgrade 40/10 FTTC to 80/20 FTTC on request. That said, like most things to do with Broadband, it is only of benefit to customers on a short copper link to their FTTC cabinet.
When you say short copper link, how short is short? I think our cabinet is about 50 to 75 metres away. Also how do get them to up it to 80/20? Do I have to make a request to them? I honestly thought that would happen immediately when they got that system in place..........again another good saying is "you should never assume anything because it usually makes an ass out of U and me"
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 02, 2012, 15:18:13I think our cabinet is about 50 to 75 metres away.
I'm about 450 metres away from mine and get profiles of ~70Mbps down and 20Mbps up. You should get full whack.
Quote
Also how do get them to up it to 80/20? Do I have to make a request to them?
I think you just email them with your details and the request. I don't think it takes long, mine was done during the trial so may not be typical, and afaik the change is made in the wee small hours.
Go to bed with a 40/10 line and wake up with an 80/20 one ;D
Bill........you are right on the BUTTON...I totally agree. I'm also retired and it's the waiting up to Midnight to download or watch anything. I'm just done after I get to bed (nearly every night) at 2.00am just to save on the peak allowance ADSL24 have got the right peak times. Unlike you Bill I do have teenagers and the 120 Gbs of allowance is just about right ..........but I'd always take more if it is going.......LOL
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 02, 2012, 15:18:13
When you say short copper link, how short is short? I think our cabinet is about 50 to 75 metres away. Also how do get them to up it to 80/20? Do I have to make a request to them? I honestly thought that would happen immediately when they got that system in place..........again another good saying is "you should never assume anything because it usually makes an ass out of U and me"
I think that you have your answers already. I am about 300 metres away from my cabinet and I have IPs of 77.43 and 20 with max attainable throughputs of 98000 and 32000 on my line. A call to Support will get you an upgrade within a working day. From my limited experience of FTTC, a higher speed will though result in more general broadband usage.
Quote from: Ardua on Jun 02, 2012, 15:30:33From my limited experience of FTTC, a higher speed will though result in more general broadband usage.
I find that's especially true with catchup TV... by the time you've discovered that the hour-long HD documentary isn't as interesting as it sounded from the blurb it's too late- 2GB up the spout :'(
Might be an idea to run a search on ADSL24 reviews before tying yourself into anything
What I have found thus far has been mixed.
Quote from: Bill on Jun 02, 2012, 15:35:13
I find that's especially true with catchup TV... by the time you've discovered that the hour-long HD documentary isn't as interesting as it sounded from the blurb it's too late- 2GB up the spout :'(
Which gets this topic nicely back on track :angel:
Quote from: pctech on Jun 02, 2012, 15:37:16
Might be an idea to run a search on ADSL24 reviews before tying yourself into anything
What I have found thus far has been mixed.
Find me an ISP where they're not :(
They've taken some stick recently about delays to the 80/20 service, but tbh they seem to be at least as open as IDNet about problems, possibly more so.
I've been watching this thread with great interest because for the last few months I've found my 30/90 fibre package to be woefully inadequate. On-line games that update up to 17 gigabytes by stealth, a F1 weekend via sky Go that consumes a further 10-15 gigabytes, HD movies at 2-3 gigabytes (double or even treble that when the player crashes), YouTube, usage by other family members etc. and the fact that all my income comes from Internet, makes my 30 gigabyte peak allowance laughable.
Even though my finances are currently extremely tight, I have seriously considered upgrading to IDNet's top end fibre package 100/300 but it probably wouldn't be enough to be comfortable, I think I'd need a 150/250 split.
I was going to throw caution to the wind and migrate to Sky FTTC but they will only offer me ASDL+. Zen's 200 gigabyte package is very tempting as it has no restrictions on when that allowance is used and I'm currently researching ADSL24. Their 8pm - 8am unlimited allowance and low costs are very attractive indeed but I know nothing about the company.
To be honest I'd rather stay with IDNet and I've been hanging on in the hope that they would revise their current FTTC packages but unfortunately I can't hang on any longer so it's highly likely I'll be migrating away very soon.
Quote from: Bill on Jun 02, 2012, 15:45:13
Find me an ISP where they're not :(
True Bill but am a little sceptical as I think they resell another service provider's service unlike IDNet, Zen or AAISP who have their own network.
Well, I'm holding out till the end of the month when my exchange gets up to 24meg (ASDL2+) upgrade. The extra allowance should just about be what I need. Sadly though, I'll probably sync at the full 22 meg and eat up the extra allowance in no time just through the fast caching of youtube videos (at that speed, it will download before I click the "exit" button to cancel watching the rubbish vids. :P ).
Thankfully I'm not really playing any online games right now, so that's kept usage down. One of the latest games on Steam is pushing 35 Gigs. Thankfully I have no interest in it, but it shows the sudden increase in size and use of the bandwidth.
Quote from: pctech on Jun 02, 2012, 22:28:04
True Bill but am a little sceptical as I think they resell another service provider's service unlike IDNet, Zen or AAISP who have their own network.
I take your point, and I always used to swear that I'd never use a reseller, but in these days of VoD, catchup TV etc you don't have to be a particularly heavy user for the generous allowances of a year or two back to start to look positively niggardly :(
Quote from: kerrso05 on May 31, 2012, 11:42:41
Thanks Simon for your reply.....I had already thought of that but I thought that they probably couldn't/wouldn't do anything if there was only one person having this problem whereas I was trying to find out if other people were having the same problem then maybe Idnet might do something.
One person leaving isn't going to have much effect on the situation
Guys.....what do you think of the Caps.....do you think they should be increased?
I really don't want to go to a dodgy company like BT......I used to be with one of their subsidiary's Plusnet and they were the worst in the world
I had the same problem so I migrated to Zen for exactly the same price but with a 100Gb cap without any peak/non peak nonsense. I kept my phone with Idnet though as their call charges are slightly less and also in case I return in the future. So far with Zen my download speed graph is almost a straight line 24/7 at the near maximum possible (6.9Mbps) whereas the graph with Idnet's looked like a range of mountains peaks especially at peak times in the evenings.
Colin
I moved to Zen 3 months ago. With IDNet my TBB monitor showed packet loss during the evenings and at other peak times such as early Sunday evening. I was never certain if this was due to IDNet, exchange contention or back-haul overload.
Since moving I no longer see any packet loss at any time unless there is the odd notified fault somewhere.
I still have a soft spot for IDNet and would love to return one day.
So Colin ,did you move to a same priced package with the same allowance.
Ive just had a quick look at Zen site and for the same price i'm on now it is half the allowance and I also noticed that if you go over that allowance Zen charge more than IDNet to 'buy' extra allowance.
does that mean you cant access anything until you top up your allowance :dunno:
I have ben trying to play the MSE3 online multiplayer. Its great fun, but after midnight its hell, so I end up just leaving which is no good when you are in a four person team backing each other up. :( If I use it in the day it will eat my bandwidth so quickly, let alone Mac updates, youtube, Netflix, skype, Sky anytime+ etc. I really don't want to leave but cost and financial constraints are pushing us that way. I keep putting it off each month, but brand loyalty is less important these days, getting a usable connection after midnight without the peak off peak caps of IDNet so we can enjoy films and back catalogues of programmes early evening is more important.
Quote from: Baz on Jun 04, 2012, 12:18:40
So Colin ,did you move to a same priced package with the same allowance.
Ive just had a quick look at Zen site and for the same price i'm on now it is half the allowance and I also noticed that if you go over that allowance Zen charge more than IDNet to 'buy' extra allowance.
does that mean you cant access anything until you top up your allowance :dunno:
For myself, Baz Zen active £25 ish would give me 100GB to use at anytime, ok I have 200GB total with IDNet but the off peak 150GB hardly gets touched, and I go over my 50Gb peak each month now, so Zen would be a better choice. As to what happens if you go over
"If you exceed your monthly usage allowance, you will be automatically redirected to a special Zen website when you connect to the Internet which enables you to increase bandwidth allowance and re-enable normal Internet access. When you reach this site, you can select how many extra GB you wish to purchase from 1GB, 2GB, 5GB, 10GB, 20GB and 50GB. Any unused GB at the end of the calendar month will be held in a "bank" for future use"
yeah im the same Gary but we rarely go over and my lot do use the off peak when I tell them.Ok it may be a waste when we dont use that much but its handy to know its there.
yes I saw that in the Q&A part and thats why I wondered if it means what I said in the other post about no access until you top up.have you had to buy extra yet
may be IDNet could even the allowances out a bit or may be some sort of adjustable tool that each user could control themselves when they know what their needs are :dunno:
Quote from: Gary on Jun 04, 2012, 12:22:28
"If you exceed your monthly usage allowance, you will be automatically redirected to a special Zen website when you connect to the Internet which enables you to increase bandwidth allowance and re-enable normal Internet access. When you reach this site, you can select how many extra GB you wish to purchase from 1GB, 2GB, 5GB, 10GB, 20GB and 50GB. Any unused GB at the end of the calendar month will be held in a "bank" for future use"
That seems like a reasonable system - how much is it per Gb?
Just did a speedtest, I'm now getting 4.02Mbps down and 1.03Mbps up, I was getting 10-11Mbps download till this weekends shenanigans yet I'm still connected at at the usual sync and my SNR has not changed, no idea what's going on. >:(
Quote from: Simon on Jun 04, 2012, 12:35:18
That seems like a reasonable system - how much is it per Gb?
£1.52 I think on the Active tariff, Simon. More expensive than IDnet.
how much over did you used to go Gary and do you get near it now
Quote from: Baz on Jun 04, 2012, 12:38:35
how much over did you used to go Gary and do you get near it now
I used to go over by 1-2 GB when I had the old 5GB allowance. Now I go over the 50GB by say 5-8GB simply because there is more to download, i use Sky anytime+ my iMac, phones, TV and PS3 and blu-ray which are all connected to the net, it soon gets eaten up as well when youtube vids and iPlayer are downloaded so fast on ADSL2+ on fibre it would be hell I imagine. I could happily use more, but I hold back because of peak time restrictions, Zens tariff makes more sense.
Is it not a case, though, that the more you have the more you'll use, and will still end up going over the top?
Probably, I had 2GB/month when I joined IDNet, and it was adequate then.
Pfft, Battlefield 3 just released a 2.38 GB patch :( There goes my bandwidth plans for today.
:P The problem is that we all want a broadband service that's tailored for our specific needs, and it just doesn't exist and never will for the price we pay. So it's all about how far you are willing to compromise and I'm afraid not about how far your provider is willing to compromise with you - we're all far too small fry. I can fit into IDNet's straightjacket by moving my use off-peak and I treat hiccups as exactly that (noted, but I don't fret). I don't know whether there are enough others do the same to be commercially viable, since you only hear those who complain, so I can only guess at which group of us is the majority (but I have a fair idea and it's probably not what you'd want to hear). Ditto my service is consistently at close to sync, and BT both at the wholesale and local loop level are doing a reasonable job, and I've no evidence of any significant let-down for me from IDNet's service. OK so it's not your experience other posters, but how do you know I'm the exception rather than the rule rather than the other way around?
The UK's competitive market is all about chopping and changing your provider for any service to try the best fit for your (changing) circumstances in the modern world with its speed obsession and impatience - yoof get it and the rest of us have got to catch up; wait and whinge and sorry, you ask for what you get IMO. We all went into this game, as far as I'm aware, with our eyes wide open; and IDnet (God bless 'em) didn't drag you in under false pretenses.
Well said :fingers:
Hear hear. :thumb:
Quote from: mervl on Jun 04, 2012, 13:59:43
:P The problem is that we all want a broadband service that's tailored for our specific needs, and it just doesn't exist and never will for the price we pay. So it's all about how far you are willing to compromise and I'm afraid not about how far your provider is willing to compromise with you - we're all far too small fry. I can fit into IDNet's straightjacket by moving my use off-peak and I treat hiccups as exactly that (noted, but I don't fret). I don't know whether there are enough others do the same to be commercially viable, since you only hear those who complain, so I can only guess at which group of us is the majority (but I have a fair idea and it's probably not what you'd want to hear). Ditto my service is consistently at close to sync, and BT both at the wholesale and local loop level are doing a reasonable job, and I've no evidence of any significant let-down for me from IDNet's service. OK so it's not your experience other posters, but how do you know I'm the exception rather than the rule rather than the other way around?
The UK's competitive market is all about chopping and changing your provider for any service to try the best fit for your (changing) circumstances in the modern world with its speed obsession and impatience - yoof get it and the rest of us have got to catch up; wait and whinge and sorry, you ask for what you get IMO. We all went into this game, as far as I'm aware, with our eyes wide open; and IDnet (God bless 'em) didn't drag you in under false pretenses.
No they didn't, but that was a long time ago, and maybe my gods have changed...
But so have IDNet, when you consider what the allowances were three or four years ago.
Quote from: Simon on Jun 04, 2012, 16:29:26
But so have IDNet, when you consider what the allowances were three or four years ago.
But allowances need to change for faster products..
When I was on ADSL2+ I was on Home Pro, it had 40GB peak (can't remember off peak, 140gb?) now the same package has 50/150, same as the FTTC package I am on.
This allowance is fine for a upto 24Mbps product but it's not fine for upto 80/20. FTTC packages need to be doubled (peak) IMO.
If I wasn't doing freelance work and I had a normal 9 - 6 job, I wouldn't be able to stay up gone midnight to watch streams, so I would technically only be paying for a 50GB allowance as I wouldn't be able to use the off peak bandwidth until weekends.
For me to stay I would need to see either one happen.
Peak time bandwidth doubled
Or
Peak times changed.. 9am - 8pm peak, 8pm - 9am off peak & weekends off peak.
Dare I say that perhaps their (IDNet) band allowances are designed around the customers that they wish to service,they are not Zen or AAISP etc. Those of you who are not on fibre have an easy choice, this thread relates to FTTC and bandwidth allowances not IDNet bandwidth allowances in general. FTTC comes with a minimum 1 years contract ,18 months BT and Sky. Probably most of us on FTTC with IDNet had no previous experience of VDSL and for me certainly unsure as to how it would affect future internet usage. I'm fortunate that our households usage has seen no dramatic change over the last 7 months. I know that should we suddenly change our lifestyle and sit glued to the TV / monitor watching streamed video I would have to think about an alternative ISP, but unless I go to the darkside it's probably going to cost me around £10 a month more.
I think IDNet have in the past responded promptly to BTw changes in price structure so I can only assume that they currently cannot afford to change the pricing structure on FTTC.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 04, 2012, 17:13:49I know that should we suddenly change our lifestyle and sit glued to the TV / monitor watching streamed video I would have to think about an alternative ISP, but unless I go to the darkside it's probably going to cost me around £10 a month more.
But that's the point I'm making, I don't do no stream watching (netflix etc) during peak time and every month I have to managed what I do very carefully. I wait to midnight before I start watching streams.
As Bill has said before, click the wrong link and by the time you notice, 2gb is gone.
During the day and evening my connection is mainly used for work stuff & general browsing.
And its fair to say, why should FTTC users have the same allowances as ADSL2+ users? Surely allowances should match the product. Faster product = more bandwidth.
My contract is up at the end of the year, so if no changes are made I will be moving to another ISP. I think that's plenty of time to give IDnet a chance to do some changes..
Paul I wish I knew what BTw charged ISPs for bandwidth but I don't. I agree it's easy to consume bandwidth on FTTC, however looking at IDNet's pricing it currently looks more expensive to service an FTTC product than adsl2+ and I don't know the reason why.
Edit: https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/service_and_support/service_support_hub/online_pricing_hub/SPPL_Page/part_7_wbc.html
If I read it correctly the monthly charge to a CP is £8 more for an FTTC line than an adsl2+ line.
I must admit I've witnessed all the moans, groans and discontent with something of a grin on my face.
It's so refreshing not having to ration your bandwidth allowance over the month and simply use the internet when and how I want. For all the criticism levelled, quite rightly most of the time, at BT I can't find a single fault with their FTTC offering.
Quote from: .Griff. on Jun 04, 2012, 18:50:23
at BT I can't find a single fault with their FTTC offering.
Yep I reckon that VDSL2 (FTTC) as implemented by BT is a much superior product to ADSL (and I don't mean just speed), and correspondingly the need for active management and the "credentials" of your Provider are much less important. (EDIT and don't forget these are international standards devised by the best brains in the business in the
International Telecommunications Union acting under the auspices of the UN). And OpenReach are much improved . Frankly it's what we should expect as technology marches forward. So it's a different game, and forget your old prejudices.
But correspondingly the ability of your Provider to deal with any minor blemish is probably less too as the tech gets more complex.
Griff....I don't know anything about you but I suspect you were on Idnet at one stage and have now moved to the "Dark Side" known as BT......I take it that is why you have a grin on your face because they have unlimited downloads? Is it working for you?
Reading through most of the comments on this thread nearly everyone that is on FTTC our like me and are not happy with the Caps..............so what do we do? Do we leave when our contract is up (for me that is two months away....so very little time left to make up my mind) or do we write to Idnet (all at the same time) and ask them politely to look at the very restrictive caps and ask them to rethink their policy through again in light of the competition like Zen (who have no peak and non peak times) or like ADSL24 (who have the Peak times change)? Or do we do as some people have suggested on this thread, stop moaning and whinging and either put up or shut up?
For me the FTTC capping policy has to change and IMHO will eventually change, but when?.......when we have left!!!
Also has anyone else noticed that there has been a deafening silence from Idnet on this subject.....maybe they have been on holidays today but you would think somebody from the company would come forward and tell us if they are looking at the caps
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 05, 2012, 00:52:51
Also has anyone else noticed that there has been a deafening silence from Idnet on this subject.....maybe they have been on holidays today but you would think somebody from the company would come forward and tell us if they are looking at the caps
They are not back in the office until Wednesday because the bank holidays.
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 05, 2012, 00:52:51
Griff....I don't know anything about you but I suspect you were on Idnet at one stage and have now moved to the "Dark Side" known as BT......I take it that is why you have a grin on your face because they have unlimited downloads? Is it working for you?
I was with IDNet on their "Home Fibre Plus" package for 18 months, August 2010 to February 2012, and since then I've been with BT Infinity 2.
With IDNet I was effectively "rationing" my allowance over the course of the month which was far from ideal. The rather draconian approach to peak hours didn't help and I've posted previously comparing other FTTC resellers approach to peak hours with the majority being a lot more relaxed and a lot removing peak hours entirely at weekends. Something IDNet have been reluctant to adopt as yet.
After 18 months I took a leap into the unknown and migrated to BT Infinity as it was not only cheaper but it didn't have any bandwidth restrictions. It's only been four months so far but the product/service itself has been perfect.
The naysayers and doom merchants will state with almost certainty, and arrogance, that BT will oversubscribe the network and it will all fall down like a pack of cards but I see no evidence of that at all so far.
Griff thanks for giving me the information on your background. You (like me) were obviously once keen to support Idnet but just couldn't work under these very restrictive caps and had no other choice than to leave. As you can see from this thread and the support it is getting there are quite a few of us who are torn in what to do next....do we leave and were do we go to or do we contact Idnet and see if they can do anything to change these caps.
The good thing from what you are saying is that we have nothing to fear moving to the likes of BT Infinity......this is good to know because their deal is exceptional. The only 'fly in the ointment' as I see it, is that they (BT) lock you into a contract of two years.....I really don't like long contracts because as you know, businesses change and you could get a change of policy and suddenly Traffic Shaping could be introduced or restrictive caps (like Idnet already has) introduced. At least with Idnet you can get out after a year. It was BT Infinity who contacted me a couple of weeks ago that started this debate off
Thanks again for your contribution to this debate.....good to hear that BT are looking after you
I think it's 18 months not 2 years with BT but it's still a longer commitment than others.
@kerrso05 I got close to switching to BT Infinity but after being told (a) that they couldn't do a simultaneous provide when contributors to the BT forum said that they could; (b) they couldn't guarantee that I could keep my existing telephone number and (c) they screwed up my order and I couldn't action e-mails that had an immediate action on them, I decided to remain with IDNet. One e-mail: job done. That said, I am sure that IDNet will, in the longer term, have to look at what other non-mainstream ISPs are providing in terms of package size, speeds and peak/off-peak hours but, for the moment, the IDNet package works well for me. Also, I can afford to buy 12 months for the price of 11 which helps narrow the cost gap.
PS It has taken me a month of e-mails and calls to get a £11.35 telephone rental refund out of Talk Talk so poor customer service isn't just a BT issue.
TalkTalk have made poor customer service an art form, the are the No1 most complained about telecomms provider.
It seems to me that most of the FTTC users would like more bandwidth at the same price and expect Idcnet to cover the extrat costs incurred from BT's pricing ifrastructure. That is simply not reasonable to expect from a company that is in the bsuiness to provide a service and make a profti, like all other businesses.
Quote from: cavillas on Jun 05, 2012, 20:00:59
It seems to me that most of the FTTC users would like more bandwidth at the same price and expect Idcnet to cover the extrat costs incurred from BT's pricing ifrastructure. That is simply not reasonable to expect from a company that is in the bsuiness to provide a service and make a profti, like all other businesses.
Cavillas I think that is being a wee bit harsh and unfair, especially those who find themselves in this predicament. We all like Idnet and I personally think it is one of the best Internet Provider company's out there (it's certainly the best I have ever been with but as someone else wrote "I'm not religiously bound to it") and that's why I don't want to leave but I'm asking Idnet to look at their caps to see if they can be more competitive with the likes of similar Internet Providers like ADSL24 and Zen (especially Zen who don't have any off peak and peak allowances) Everybody knows that Idnet are a Business and they're in that business to make profits and I'm not asking them not to make a profit or give us something for nothing, that is a ludicrous suggestion to make especially in these hard financial times we are living in. Are you telling me that Zen don't make a profit on their FTTC business? Of course they do.
The position I'm in is trying to find the best way to get Idnet to look at the Caps for the FTTC. If they look at it and do their calculations and find they can do nothing for us (those that are having problems with the caps) then that's the question answered and we all have to make up our minds what to do next, whether that is to leave or sit up and shut up.........it's as simple as that. I don't think we are being unreasonable but if you do.......then........that's alright...........we will have to agree to differ
Quote from: cavillas on Jun 05, 2012, 20:00:59
It seems to me that most of the FTTC users would like more bandwidth at the same price and expect Idcnet to cover the extrat costs incurred from BT's pricing ifrastructure. That is simply not reasonable to expect from a company that is in the bsuiness to provide a service and make a profti, like all other businesses.
With respect, I think that the point that others are making is that in some respects IDNet's FTTC packages are looking increasingly uncompetitive when compared to those offered by other BT resellers. For example, Zen has just doubled its 50GB package to 100GB without increasing the cost. As has been said many times before, IDNet's equivalent package is 50GB/150GB. If one isn't a night owl then the 150GB part of the package is unlikely to be used; hence, the requests for IDNet to consider a review, for example, of it's peak/off-peak hours ratio. I agree though that this is a matter for IDNet. If IDNet's offering is no longer a fit, then I can well see why some long-term IDNet customers may decide to move on. Such is life.
Ardua obviously you had a different experience from Griff with BT. It's all good to get these different views of how BT perform.....you were really lucky getting back to Idnet........knowing my luck if I had the same experience as you had I would end up being locked into BT for 18 months.
As for Talk Talk I have had a bad experience with them, so I would never deal with them again but in saying that, I know various people round were I live have them and they are very happy with them including my Uncle, who thought they were great. So it is very hard to give a hundred percent recommendation on these companies which doesn't make it easy on who to choose. It's a case of pay your money take your chance.....I'm afraid
Quote from: Ardua on Jun 05, 2012, 20:55:37
With respect, I think that the point that others are making is that in some respects IDNet's FTTC packages are looking increasingly uncompetitive when compared to those offered by other BT resellers. For example, Zen has just doubled its 50GB package to 100GB without increasing the cost. As has been said many times before, IDNet's equivalent package is 50GB/150GB. If one isn't a night owl then the 150GB part of the package is unlikely to be used; hence, the requests for IDNet to consider a review, for example, of it's peak/off-peak hours ratio. I agree though that this is a matter for IDNet. If IDNet's offering is no longer a fit, then I can well see why some long-term IDNet customers may decide to move on. Such is life.
My point exactly...............I'm fed up being a night owl and getting very little sleep
I just get up early. ;)
Current Usage
This is the 5th June.... only five days into the month and I have just looked at my figures....here they are:-
During the time period 2012-06-01 to 2012-06-04 your bandwidth use was:
15.64 GB Download - (Peak: 5.71 GB | Off-Peak: 9.93 GB)
1.95 GB Upload - (Peak: 0.89 GB | Off-Peak: 1.06 GB)
These figures cover 3 days. If your previous 7 days rate of usage continues for 30 days then the total for the month will be:
118.71 GB Download - (Peak: 39.31 GB | Off-Peak: 79.40 GB)
18.79 GB Upload - (Peak: 9.68 GB | Off-Peak: 9.11 GB)
That 5.71 Gbs has only been used up by surfing the net and playing back "The Final of The Apprentice" through iPlayer because my wife had missed it because she was a leader at a guide camp. Also look at what they predict I am going to end up with at the end of the month 39.31 Gbs for Peak. As you also can see I am staying up late and downloading.....sometimes to 2.30am in the morning. It's not good.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 05, 2012, 21:06:01
I just get up early. ;)
No I think it would be simpler if they changed the Peak hours to a more reasonable time ;)
More chance of David Cameron calling a snap election methinks.
Perhaps I'm being naive, FTTC is new technology Openreach needs a return on it's investment and like any new technology it comes in at a higher initial price. I think it will be come cheaper eventually but I've no idea when. I suspect FTTC is still a minority product.
Quote from: pctech on Jun 05, 2012, 21:20:51
More chance of David Cameron calling a snap election methinks.
No I think that is being defeatist....they have to look at it first....surely......and anyway hasn't he David Cameron changed his mind a couple times in this parliament.....there's always hope for us ;)
Quote from: pctech on Jun 05, 2012, 21:20:51
More chance of David Cameron calling a snap election methinks.
He already did... They both got the election cards and went "Snap". :laugh:
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 05, 2012, 20:52:00The position I'm in is trying to find the best way to get Idnet to look at the Caps for the FTTC.
I suggest the best way is to ask them, perhaps pointing them to this thread in your enquiry email.
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 05, 2012, 21:15:28That 5.71 Gbs has only been used up by surfing the net and playing back "The Final of The Apprentice" through iPlayer because my wife had missed it because she was a leader at a guide camp.
You'll have to forgive me, but this is one thing I don't understand. With respect, does your wife
have to use iPlayer to watch the programme? Do you not have a PVR / Freeview / Sky box that it could have been recorded on? That's what I've been doing for years, and I can't see any reason to change from that system, but then, I haven't got FTTC. My point, however, is that there
are alternative means to catch up on TV programmes, rather than using iPlayer.
Quote from: Simon on Jun 05, 2012, 22:40:46
You'll have to forgive me, but this is one thing I don't understand. With respect, does your wife have to use iPlayer to watch the programme? Do you not have a PVR / Freeview / Sky box that it could have been recorded on? That's what I've been doing for years, and I can't see any reason to change from that system, but then, I haven't got FTTC. My point, however, is that there are alternative means to catch up on TV programmes, rather than using iPlayer.
Simon, surely how people want to catch up with programs is up to them, iPlayer is easy, its on phones tablets and your PC. Not everyone has sky, and if they do the anytime+ service they promote now for back catalogues is VOD. Telling someone to change their habits to save bandwidth is not really the point surely as these services are there to be used, and are convenient, also sometimes the use of these on demand services is a spur of the moment thing as you see something interesting and just want to watch it.
Quote from: Gary on Jun 05, 2012, 23:05:30
Simon, surely how people want to catch up with programs is up to them, iPlayer is easy, its on phones tablets and your PC. Not everyone has sky, and if they do the anytime+ service they promote now for back catalogues is VOD.
I'm not suggesting everyone has Sky (I don't), but most people have some sort of TV recording facility, and I'd be surprised if everyone dumped their old PVR boxes (of whatever variety) the minute they get FTTC. All I'm saying is, there are alternatives to iPlayer.
QuoteTelling someone to change their habits to save bandwidth is not really the point surely as these services are there to be used, and are convenient, also sometimes the use of these on demand services is a spur of the moment thing as you see something interesting and just want to watch it.
Again, I'm not telling anyone to change their habits, but merely suggesting that alternatives are available, and stating that,
personally, I, myself, don't understand the need to hammer your bandwidth with iPlayer, if there are other means available.
Quote from: Simon on Jun 05, 2012, 23:18:58
I'm not suggesting everyone has Sky (I don't), but most people have some sort of TV recording facility, and I'd be surprised if everyone dumped their old PVR boxes (of whatever variety) the minute they get FTTC. All I'm saying is, there are alternatives to iPlayer.
Again, I'm not telling anyone to change their habits, but merely suggesting that alternatives are available, and stating that, personally, I, myself, don't understand the need to hammer your bandwidth with iPlayer, if there are other means available.
Gents,
I've been watching this thread with interest even though it doesn't really apply to me. I pay for Home Pro (100Gb peak) and use around 70Gb peak each month, so as far as I'm concerned I am on "unlimited". Two points:
1. I pay for the service. Nearly £50 a month should give me no need to worry about caps and I know earlier in the thread the OP was expressing his desire to continue to pay mid £20s per month because he always has. That's not really reasonable. I'd like to pay sixty nine pence for a pint of Bitter and 40 pence a gallon for petrol just as I used to. The leap from £25 to say £35 a month isn't great and it's buying continued quality. I can have free 2Mb capped from Sky, but for me that's bad value. I have decided that sky at £20 a month too will be bad value as I'm certain it'll be loaded to high heaven and then managed to mediocrity.
So on the one hand, buy value - it's far more important than base cost.
2. On the other hand, Simon, there has to be a trade off around what that value buys. One of the key drivers for FTTC is that it's capable of streaming. To set caps so low that streaming isn't practical isn't on. BT provide vision customers with bandwidth that sits *outside* their data cap, so in effect streaming is free. I'm not sure how the financials work, but this seems like predatory pricing and its something IDNet could look at. IIRC BT were in the process of enabling multicast on their whole network, so there may be some flexibility on this in the future?
So on the other hand, the benefits of FTTC can't be negated by the cost. I appreciate IDNet are at the premium end of the market, but they need to find the balance that is say Audi, rather than being either Mclaren or Vauxhall (if that makes sense).
I'
Point taken.
Something which everyone seems to be missing is that as a business, IDNet is always going to be looking to remain as competitive as other ISPs. Reviewing the bandwidth caps isn't going to be a once a year exercise, but something which is going to be under very regular consideration.
Zen, as has been pointed out already, recently doubled their allowances at no additional cost to the consumer. However, what we don't know is how big their user base is. It could be that it is much larger than IDNet's and that is why they have calculated the changes to the packages will still make a decent profit.
Ultimately, we have to remember that iDNet are out to make a profit. I'm sure if they could, they would charge BT prices, have no caps and keep the same customer service but this is not going to happen because they would go bust overnight.
Simon in answer to your question why not use alternative catch-up methods to see a program like "The Apprentice"............the answer is simple, we didn't record it....sorry that should be, I :blush: didn't remember to record it because we have one of the latest Panasonic DVD recorders (250Gbs)
So that is the only time we have ever used that facility on our Panasonic Free-sat/Freeview TV (and no I also don't have sky) The point is that with the superior speed of FTTC I can if I so wish watch a program on iPlayer I'm not having to wait for buffering and stuttering and starting with ADSL that is one of the advantages of FTTC but the downside is.....there goes my usage.
But Simon I get the impression from your comments is anything I say or we say regarding this matter wont convince you. As you say you don't have FTTC, so really you don't know what it is like to have the speed and at the same you don't really understand (and I didn't want to say this but I don't think you want to understand....do you?) the problems we have with the restrictive caps.
I also know I am repeating myself in saying that I respect Idnet a lot and I like their business ethos very much but what I don't consider them as Gods and religiously believe everything that they do is right and correct. I'm sure like most businesses and people in general make mistakes and Idnet would be no different. I think in this case Idnet have made a mistake and I want them to look at it again, whereas in contrast you appear to believe they haven't made a mistake and don't think they should look at it (even though you don't have FTTC)
All honestly do you think it is right that I should have to wait till after midnight to use the bulk of my internet usage?.....do you have to wait till midnight to go onto the internet?.....I think not
I have large downloads and BBC iplayer scheduled for off peak times so it downloads whilst I sleep :)
Anton, I think your comments on the situation on the whole are balanced and correct.....thanks for that and yes you are right, I don't want the price too rise too much but if it has to rise then so be it.......I'm not totally concerned about a reasonable rise in monthly charges as long as I see a change in the caps. I would go further than that, I'm willing to accept whatever Idnet come up with as long as they promise to look at the Caps.......I think that is pretty fair....do you not?
Just for info the workaround I use on iplayer is to download rather than stream, with IDNets off-peak up to 9am on FTTC, even if I'm late up and don't start until 8.30am, on my poor line I can still download [EDIT] 4 hours of HD programming a day before 9am, if I were so minded. A little inconvenience can go a long way.
I'm surprised that no-one who is concerned appears to have had the courtesy to raise this directly with IDNet and posted their response. I suspect it will be that they keep the caps and the market under review, as any good business does. But if there's any thought of coercion, then no business will give in to that. Changes take time to plan (even more so where there is a need for capital or financial investment), and take longer than you think. That's good business, not "head in the sand". I'm not sure with what appears to be an impressive media and quango client list on their information pages, that IDNet would prejudice their network performance in advance of seeing how it performs under the pressure of the Olympics, but there.
I do understand that other members of the family don't understand the restrictions; but I also think that we should consider future generations. It was a great disappointment to me at the time I took early retirement, the number of young people who were also "let go": the reason was that the employer found them unwilling to adapt and compromise - in the eyes of their employer they would invariably "do as they please" and be the first to complain about inadequate resources frequently on the basis that "no one complains at home" - the job market is increasingly difficult and resources in the real world are scarce, so perhaps it's a sign of old age but I think we all need to start to re-learn the skills of "mend and make do".
I read those people who say "I don't want to have to plan/think" and despair. I wouldn't want to employ or live with someone with that attitude. What do you think we have a brain for?
Quote from: Ardua on Jun 05, 2012, 16:33:04PS It has taken me a month of e-mails and calls to get a £11.35 telephone rental refund out of Talk Talk so poor customer service isn't just a BT issue.
That's shooting fish in a barrel. TalkTalk are in a league of their own when it comes to bad customer service.
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 06, 2012, 00:18:59
All honestly do you think it is right that I should have to wait till after midnight to use the bulk of my internet usage?.....do you have to wait till midnight to go onto the internet?.....I think not
AFAIK, IDNet's peak/off-peak hours are based on the usage patterns of their business customers. To change them would involve increased capacity which was largely redundant, therefore, an increase in costs.
Quote from: Simon on Jun 05, 2012, 22:40:46You'll have to forgive me, but this is one thing I don't understand. With respect, does your wife have to use iPlayer to watch the programme?
For what it's worth I agree with you. I've wondered why catch-up is so popular. All it takes is ten minutes a day browsing the EPG and marking stuff. Even more bizarre (it seems) is the number of people enthusiastic about Sky's Anytime+. That isn't even(*) a proper catch-up service. Just random material available for download. I suppose that where Sky is concerned the two tuner limitation is harder to work around. We sometimes struggle to juggle two Freesat and two Sky HD tuners and that's only two adults with unusually similar tastes in TV. If it was a 'true' VoD system where all content currently licensed for broadcast was available(**) then I'd go for it but a simple catch-up just doesn't do anything for me either.
(**)Ie;as soon as a series is bought by a broadcaster every episode is available to watch.
(*)Apparently it's going to become a proper catch-up very soon with almost everything available for download. Based on the SD quality I've seen so far that would make it a viable solution to the 'two tuner problem' if they included HD material.
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 06, 2012, 00:18:59
Simon in answer to your question why not use alternative catch-up methods to see a program like "The Apprentice"............the answer is simple, we didn't record it....sorry that should be, I :blush: didn't remember to record it because we have one of the latest Panasonic DVD recorders (250Gbs)
That's the advantage of never watching anything live in the first place. The only time I might miss something is if a new series starts or it's one of those occasional programmes like
Traffic Cops or
Midsomer Murders seems to have become. Everything gets tagged for series link so the box takes care of it.
But..people pay for their broadband so they should be able to use it. If catch-up suits Simon then that's fine. IDNet's 9am to midnight (aka 'whenever you're awake') timing is a bit annoying. I'm lucky. Since I don't stream video I'm averaging 7GB a month on-peak so I'm happy on their lowest FTTC package. It would be nice though not to have the nagging feeling of guilt when I do download something big. I didn't have that problem with Be.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 06, 2012, 08:10:40
AFAIK, IDNet's peak/off-peak hours are based on the usage patterns of their business customers. To change them would involve increased capacity which was largely redundant, therefore, an increase in costs.
Fair enough, but that does rather suggest that non-business users are customers that can be ignored which is not my experience of IDNet. Other business ISPs (Goscomb for example) seem to manage to offer 80GB for a similar price to IDNet's 50/150GB package without peak/off-peak restrictions for all its FTTC customers. I know that some contributors are fiercely protective of IDNet - others like me will take stock, from time to time, to assess whether or not the packages on offer meet their specific downloading requirements. At the moment, IDNet works for me. I am sure - despite what others opine - that IDNet will be following this thread closely: that said, only they will know whether their business/financial model works.
No customers are ignored, I get 15/45GB now for the same price I paid for 2GB six years ago. Every business, though, is a balancing act and there have to be compromises or restrictions somewhere along the way - unless you're big enough to cross subsidise.
If it was a similar contract length to adsl we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. At least with adsl if the bandwidth limitations don't fit your requirements you can switch. Perhaps a hope for the future.
Once past 12 months, I believe it is a rolling 1 month contract.
It is. BT impose the 12 month contract.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 06, 2012, 08:10:40
AFAIK, IDNet's peak/off-peak hours are based on the usage patterns of their business customers.
I wouldn't go so far as to say I don't believe that, but if so then their business customers work some very peculiar hours...
Off-site backups, e-commerce etc, Bill.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 06, 2012, 10:01:12
Off-site backups, e-commerce etc, Bill.
Yes, I thought of those, but I doubt if e-commerce has a high-bandwidth requirement (reliability being more important) and (ime) off-site backups are usually done in the small hours, ie during our "off-peak" hours.
If the client list (as shown in IDNets home pages) still includes the BBC, for instance, then I can imagine they impose some very strict requirements on QoS; and with others like HP are an international organisation that works to US hours; which I suspect makes the late "peak" hours quite explicable.
Quote from: mervl on Jun 06, 2012, 10:18:43
If the client list (as shown in IDNets home pages) still includes the BBC, for instance, then I can imagine they impose some very strict requirements on QoS; and others like HP are an international organisation that works to US hours; which I suspect makes the late "peak" hours quite explicable.
Maybe... we're guessing because that's not (quite reasonably) the sort of information that IDNet are going to provide.
But... if the requirements of their business customers are such that their domestic products become increasingly uncompetitive (which, tbh, is happening) perhaps they should reconsider whether it's a market they should be in, and make a managed withdrawal before it dies on its feet?
Because, even though it's generally good and used to justify (to some extent) the high prices, IDNet's vaunted customer service isn't as good as some others. For example, it's been mentioned that the unhappiness with caps or hours should be taken up directly with IDNet- most of the other small ISPs that have independent user groups or forums like this one actively monitor and participate in them.
Credit for this lengthy post goes to the MD of AAISP at revk.www.me.uk
Sustainable Pricing for Broadband
IPTV means there is now a gradual increase in the usage of broadband lines. More and more people are starting to do some streaming and downloading of video that did not before. This is an issue in the industry, obviously.
One of the main problems is that back-haul from a customer premises to a handover point in the UK costs 10 times what connectivity from an ISP to the rest of the world costs. Yes, it seems crazy that a company that only has to link a few hundred exchanges in a small geographic area charges so much more than companies linking thousands interconnects all over the globe.
However, the upshot of this is simple, IPTV is increasing costs for ISPs. It does vary from ISP to ISP and depends how they connect to customers. Some ISPs with exchange equipment are in a better position to cope, those using BT back-haul are not so much. But either way, it means people spending more upgrading links from exchanges. That does cost money.
So that leads me to ponder what is a sustainable pricing model for an ISP. One where prices relate to costs in some way (like us), and increased usage (because of IPTV or otherwise) means both increased costs and increased revenues... Or, a business model where price competition drives prices down, and ISPs offer "all you can eat" services where IPTV increases costs.
What do I think? Well, I am not an economist, but I think that this all puts pressure on the back-haul links and their costs. I think competing on price is less sustainable, to be honest. Transit costs have plummeted over the years as usage has increased, but back-haul has reduced more slowly. What I hope is that pressure on the back-haul pricing means that it gets a lot cheaper. That means we can lower our prices to customers. Even so, I don't see us competing on price - it means compromising far too much on other aspects of the service, and means potentially running an unsustainable model. We intend to stay in business.
Eventually, back-haul links will be high enough capacity for fixed pricing models to be viable. When that happens we will offer them. Having said that, we are trialling some interesting options for businesses even now, with much more affordable, fixed price, all-you-can-eat Internet links using FTTC and Etherflows. They are not cheap enough for residential use yet, or rolled out to much of the UK yet, but we are getting there.
Yes, I've always understood that most pricing models assume that many (most?) users use significantly less than their allowance, and think I can recall a post from Idnet on here that indicated as much. Just hope I'm in that category and that Idnet don't give up on residential users as I don't believe I'm the only happy FTTC customer.
I think the disregard by the regulatory authorities (who are charged with ensuring a competitive market) of backhaul costs is a scandal, not just for FTTC/P but also for competition on ADSL and alternative technologies, and more of a problem for the extension of faster broadband than the local loop. UK Broadband delivery is half-cocked as a result.
EDIT: just a thought, I wondered where BT get the millions to match fund BDUK monies, now I think I know. The modern equivalent of "robbing Peter to pay Paul", no doubt!
I have no capacity issues, so am happy to stay at present.
Quote from: mervl on Jun 06, 2012, 13:24:18I don't believe I'm the only happy FTTC customer.
I'm sure you're not - we just don't often hear from the rest.
Unhappy customers tend to migrate quietly away to another supplier. Currently, I also have no FTTC capacity issues: that said, I have recently signed up for some online Lightroom 4 training and I am watching the meter closely. I do not believe that any of the previous posters are unhappy - many would like to stay with IDNet. They are just trying to ascertain whether there are any packet changes in the IDNet pipeline? I think that it is a fair question but not one which will necessarily get a response. At least AAISP (above) is saying that they recognise the IPTV bandwidth issue but that there are no immediate solutions for their domestic customers. If I was with AAISP then that is at least something to throw into the stay/migrate pot.
I'm a happy FTTC customer, I just have issue with having the same allowances as the slower ADSL2+ package on a MUCH faster connection..
My argument is, Allowances should match packages and currently they don't.
Also another problem is, websites that put live TV feeds on the homepages. Take sky news for example. They do it often, normally I open a few tabs and sometimes walk away from the PC, now if sky news has live TV on the homepage, bye bye bandwidth & its not your fault.
Quote from: Ardua on Jun 06, 2012, 14:09:04
Unhappy customers tend to migrate quietly away to another supplier.
I seldom do anything quietly when I'm unhappy ;D
Seriously, idiotic though it might be these days, I've got quite a brand loyalty to IDNet- they've provided me with very good service for quite a few years now with little cause for complaint, and it would need a fair bit of pressure to get me to move.
But the pressure is building... it's yet to reach the trip point, but the possibility is a lot higher than it used to be :(
I don't want "all you can eat, 24/7" for the same price- as I said earlier, I'd be perfectly happy if my 120+30GB allowance was a flat 100GB, rather like Zen.
We do keep reviewing our bandwidth allowances. And we do so bearing in mind our performance targets. We have, in the past, not quite hit those by being a little too optimistic in the size of the monthly bandwidth allowance that we can include in the packages. We are determind not to make that mistake again. We can only compete with the big ISPs on quality, because we cannot compete on price. This means that we have to ensure that those customers who buy from us because of low latency and low jitter receive the performance that they need. We expect to review our packages again after the Olympics rather than before as many events will be held during the business day.
One of our customers wrote in his blog recently about his experience of using our ADSL compared to a cable connection: http://blog.mythic-beasts.com/?p=231&preview=true
Thanks for that perspective, Simon. :)
If your primary requirement were for streaming TV services, then latency and jitter would not be important to you, and so I would have to concede that our performance goals may well be overkill for your needs.
Of course, we do hope that customers make the most of the servcie that we strive to deliver. But, to borrow someone's analogy, if you really want to use a McLaren to tow a caravan then, well, feel free :-)
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Jun 06, 2012, 14:44:14We expect to review our packages again after the Olympics rather than before as many events will be held during the business day.
That's fair enough, I can well imagine that that's going to be a problem time. And don't forget Euro 2012 as well, yet another event I shall be studiously avoiding :P
Thanks Simon.
QuoteWe can only compete with the big ISPs on quality, because we cannot compete on price. This means that we have to ensure that those customers who buy from us because of low latency and low jitter receive the performance that they need. We expect to review our packages again after the Olympics rather than before as many events will be held during the business day.
Thanks Simon for joining in on this discussion about the very restrictive caps on the FTTC. I am very glad to hear that you are looking at this. "We can only compete with the big ISPs on quality, because we cannot compete on price".....I knew that but I'm sure you would agree with me that you can compete with the smaller ISPs like Zen and ADSL24 both of whom have a less restrictive caps. Can you promise to have a look this part of the business?....is it possible to change the peak times from say 10.00pm to 10.00am....at least I wouldn't have to wait to the late hours to download.
Hi Harry
We'll certianly look at it again after the Olympics and maybe Euro2012.
I doubt that we'll change the hours though as they are specifically designed to ensure that gamers and evening SSH workers etc are not swamped by streaming and it also allows us to offer competition-beating, practically unlimited overnight allowances for those who are able to schedule their downloads.
BT have hinted that wholesale price changes mught be afoot for later in the summer - that would certainly let us increase the allowances.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Jun 06, 2012, 17:15:24
I doubt that we'll change the hours though as they are specifically designed to ensure that gamers and evening SSH workers etc are not swamped by streaming
Ah, so that's the rationalisation... something for me to bear in mind as I don't do either.
Quote... for those who are able to schedule their downloads.
That's the problem- my main download sites are iPlayer and iTunes, neither of which seem to offer any scheduling options. But I appreciate that it's
my problem not yours, and it can wait until after the Olympics.
In the meantime, anyone know of a download manager for OS X that can handle those two sites?
Quote from: Bill on Jun 06, 2012, 17:46:20
In the meantime, anyone know of a download manager for OS X that can handle those two sites?
The only iPlayer downloader that I know of was iPlayer Downloader. Whether it's still around I don't know as the Beeb continually tried to block downloading except through the iPlayer app a while back, so maybe the author simply gave up the struggle.
Speed Download is a download scheduler which might work. It used to be available in Lite (free) and paid versions.
I followed a trail and came up with this , never used it though.
http://tom-tech.com/iplayer_automator/iPlayer_Automator/Get_iPlayer_Automator.html
Thanks both, I'll have a look at those.
Bill......I know we are way off the subject but I actively promote an application on the WebUser Magazine site that might fit the bill (no pun intended) it is called GetiPlayer and I use it all the time to schedule downloads from the BBC
Here it is:-
http://bit.ly/Kitv6V
I have a windows set up and it works there ..as far as I am aware it also works with OS X
The download manager I use is Internet Download Manager and I can thoroughly recommend it because you can schedule downloads but I don't think it works on Macs
http://bit.ly/KiuunM
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 06, 2012, 19:13:29it is called GetiPlayer and I use it all the time to schedule downloads from the BBC
That looks like at least a close cousin to the one that Steve suggested, but thanks for the recommendation :thumb:
I did think it would good to be able to schedule 4oD as well (I watch quite a bit of C4), but on reflection... with the cr*ppy resolution they often use the files aren't all that big anyway!
What is a SSH worker? Clearly, the IDNet business is focused on business and gamers. The latter is a something of a surprise when I look at the number of retired people who contribute to IDNetters! I am retired but I have to confess that I have never played a game online in my life. I may have to re-think my priorities :-\
I'm not retired, and neither have I!
Quote from: Ardua on Jun 06, 2012, 19:40:30
What is a SSH worker?
SSH - Secure SHell. It's a way of implementing a secure connection over an insecure network like the internet. I'm not sure why it needs a low-latency/low jitter connection, but if Simon says it does then I'm happy to believe him :)
QuoteI am retired but I have to confess that I have never played a game online in my life.
Ditto.
QuoteI may have to re-think my priorities :-\
Also ditto... I'd never seen the "ideal target" IDNet customer profile spelt out that way. I don't have any problem with them doing that, it's just unfortunate (for me!) that my usage pattern is almost diametrically opposite to it :(
Bill, you are most definitely an ideal target! ;)
I know a few people who would wholeheartedly agree with that, but fortunately they don't have a firearms licence ;D
:laugh:
I think I may have to look elsewhere, this thread has shown me that. Tonight my pings went up to 118ms turns out Guildford 21cn BRAs is having issues and that effects my area code (AAISP info) http://status.aa.net.uk/apost.cgi?incident=1536 I really I wish IDNet had info like this on their site.
Having to change the way I use the internet is a compromise I can't make, its easier for me to move on which is sad but I'm not idnets 'customer demographic' even though I should fit part of it, Its just who to move to. Being at home most of the day due to my disability means my usage is more quirky I guess. :(
Quote from: Gary on Jun 06, 2012, 23:38:37Its just who to move to.
It is indeed... I withdraw my comment earlier about IDNet being uncompetitive-
if you fit their "profile" they're definitely in the hunt.
I'll wait to see what IDNet come up with after the Olympics before making a decision, but a quick look around does no harm. So far, just based on my personal patterns and not a comprehensive list:
AAISP- Waayyy too expensive, excellent though they otherwise appear to be :o
Zen- a bit pricey, but a possibility.
ADSL24- very tempting, but enough to overcome my reservations about re-sellers...? Not sure.
Decisions, decisions... but fortunately not yet :P
Quote from: Bill on Jun 07, 2012, 16:10:40
It is indeed... I withdraw my comment earlier about IDNet being uncompetitive- if you fit their "profile" they're definitely in the hunt.
I'll wait to see what IDNet come up with after the Olympics before making a decision, but a quick look around does no harm. So far, just based on my personal patterns and not a comprehensive list:
AAISP- Waayyy too expensive, excellent though they otherwise appear to be :o
Zen- a bit pricey, but a possibility.
ADSL24- very tempting, but enough to overcome my reservations about re-sellers...? Not sure.
Decisions, decisions... but fortunately not yet :P
I agree, understanding the demographic makes more sense, having been with them quite a while now I am loathed to move, I have come up with a shortlist like yours, Bill. The thing is today I call up with an issue and they are on the ball, they see the drops and are looking into it. I wonder will I get that anywhere else, swings and roundabouts as ever, and sometimes as I have leant the grass is not always greener as they say on the other side. I'll sit and wait and see till after the Olympics too.
Hmmm. I could get over double the bandwidth allowance for £1 more with ASDL 24+...
It might be worth trying them for half the DL speed (at 12mb, speed is not a worry to me) for the "unlimited" bandwidth. So it takes twice as long to download a game, but I can download it during the day, and not have to wait till night. If it's youtube or BBCiPlayer HD, 12mb is more than enough, yet I won't eat my bandwidth cap in a week. :/
Hmmm, most of those seem to offer double the peak allowance at a minimum. Very tempting to swap to one that also don't traffic manage.
Guys this is were I am at with this news from Simon (Idnet) to look at the caps after the Olympics.....this is what I wanted them to do (just a pity they can't do it sooner but I understand).....so I have no gripe with there response and that's why I find it very hard to leave them.
The problem I have now is I don't think Idnet consider me as part of their "customer demographic" which is a pity but I have to accept reality. Don't get me wrong, the move to possibly increase caps is good news and must be welcomed by all but it doesn't really solve my problems of having to stay up late to download.....yes I know I can program Internet Download Manager to come to life after 12.00 Mid-night and I could program GetiPlayer to download BBC programs that I have missed but my main computer is in the bedroom (and you can't sleep with the hum, doesn't matter how quiet the computer is) and also I don't like electrical equipment on when the family are sleeping.
To recap. Thanks Simon for your involvement in this discussion, much appreciated. It looks like I will have to look at other options and as others have demonstrated there isn't too many options............the only one that appears to be giving me what I want is ADSL24 (but the reviews about them aren't that great) so it looks like I am the same as others here I will have to wait till after the Olympics and then decisions will have to be made
Thanks again to all who took part in this discussion, it was very worth while
(http://speedtest.net/result/1995100226.png)
I suspect a lot of IDNet's business users don't post here because they are well too busy running a business?
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 07, 2012, 18:24:13
...the only one that appears to be giving me what I want is ADSL24 (but the reviews about them aren't that great)
My research is pulling up very mixed reactions to ADSL24 which is shame. The price is right as are the peak/offpeak ratio and hours but the service delivery seems to be somewhat hit and miss.
Before deciding to stay with IDNet, I took a hard look at AAISP. A 4 unit FTTC package gives about 0.25GB peak per day for Mon to Fri and 100GB for evenings 6pm to 9am and weekends. Carry forward is also useful. The downside is the risk of extra costs if peak gets hammered.
Quote from: Ardua on Jun 07, 2012, 19:58:18
Before deciding to stay with IDNet, I took a hard look at AAISP. A 4 unit FTTC package gives about 0.25GB peak per day for Mon to Fri and 100GB for evenings 6pm to 9am and weekends. Carry forward is also useful. The downside is the risk of extra costs if peak gets hammered.
Ardua I haven't a clue what AAISP is about.....don't even like the look of the site.......were is the A 4 FTTC package you are talking about?......it looks austere and uninviting to say the least....they wont win awards for their website design whereas at the other end of the scale ADSL24 looks cheap and tackie.....if the truth be told Zen and Idnet looks just about right...inviting, with enough information and enough detail to let you know what you are getting into
(http://speedtest.net/result/1995100226.png)
]
I may regret this as I am no expert. As explained to me. AAISP has a simple FTTC pricing model based on units of broadband similar to units of electricity. To get FTTC, you pay a daily charge plus £3.90 for each unit of broadband that you use. You have to purchase a minimum of 2 units per month. Four units would cost £37.80 per month and this is what I used when I compared IDNet, to AAISP and Zen as the monthly figures were £35.74; £37.80 and £36 respectively.
The metering works like this. Between 9am and 6pm (Mon to Fri), a unit buys you 2.5GB of download. Between 6pm and 2 am (and from 6pm Fri to 9am Mon) a unit equates to 50GB of download and between 2am and 6am a unit equates to 1000GBs of download (quote to cater for those doing backups unquote). The meter doesn't stop running, it is just goes faster at peak times and slower at off-peak times. The pricing model allows you to carry forward some of the unused units and run a deficit against the following month if you download more than you have paid for. This is the complicated bit and you will need to read the section 'How it Works' on the AAISP website.
The downside is that £3.80 for 2.5GB of peak usage can result in a large bill if daytime usage is not monitored closely. My example was based on 4 units which gave me 5GB peak (2 units) and 100GB off peak (2 units). Assuming 20 working days in a month, this equated to above .25GB per day Mon to Fri. Clearly, if I only used, say, 50GB off peak then in my example I could use 3 units peak or 7.5GB without incurring any extra cost.
I hope that this makes sense? There are better explanations on the AAISP forum in TBB.
Ardua thanks for that....but No Thanks. I don't know about the rest of you but I wouldn't have anything to do with that..........watching this and watching that. I couldn't be doing with that. Idnet is plain and simple and even more simpler is Zens, you have one cap and once you go over it you are charged, no messing about, don't have to worry about peak an un-peak times....what could be simplier. Also to me AAISP sound quite expensive,..... no...... "Thanks but No Thanks" :shake:
(http://speedtest.net/result/1995100226.png)
Something to bear in mind when comparing packages and caps is that with Idnet uploads are unmetered and unlimited. This may not be the case for other ISPs which sometimes include upload bandwidth within the capped allowances.
Downloads started for me games etc... Oh, that's not even counting the updates and windows stuff... yawn.
I think the main conclusion from this discussion is that 'one ISP or one package will never suit everybody'. At the moment, I do not hit my monthly peak limit so IDNet works well for me - even if I am using a ' McLaren to pull a caravan'. However, it is clear from reading the press that the future of entertainment lies in streaming. Sony has just purchased an online games company so it is likely that the Playstation 4 may never happen. I can also see Sky changing to more of a BT Vision type of package within the next 5 to 10 years. All ISPs will be forced to review their packages/customer demographic. Time now for me to respond to Zen who have just noticed that my line has been FTTC-enabled and have e-mailed saying how much they would value my custom.
Quote from: Ardua on Jun 08, 2012, 08:32:09
I think the main conclusion from this discussion is that 'one ISP or one package will never suit everybody'. At the moment, I do not hit my monthly peak limit so IDNet works well for me - even if I am using a ' McLaren to pull a caravan'. However, it is clear from reading the press that the future of entertainment lies in streaming. Sony has just purchased an online games company so it is likely that the Playstation 4 may never happen. I can also see Sky changing to more of a BT Vision type of package within the next 5 to 10 years. All ISPs will be forced to review their packages/customer demographic. Time now for me to respond to Zen who have just noticed that my line has been FTTC-enabled and have e-mailed saying how much they would value my custom.
PS4 will happen, they wont be left behind with Xbox 720. Its just how the machine access games, and I cant see discs fading out, not enough people have fast or reliable lines yet. Sky will always be a satellite company, they can beam into your home reliable content *ahem* yes VOD will be there but satellite is the way they can beat Virgin for coverage compared with cable.
Quote from: Lance on Jun 07, 2012, 23:53:47
Something to bear in mind when comparing packages and caps is that with Idnet uploads are unmetered and unlimited. This may not be the case for other ISPs which sometimes include upload bandwidth within the capped allowances.
Zen don't include upload, not sure about ADSL24, but as off-peak is unlimited it's not really a problem.
A slight downside to both (for me, anyway) would be that neither yet support IPv6.
??? The really interesting thing for me about this discussion is how it shows (once again) - and I include myself in this, so I'm not criticising anyone - how many of our problems are self-inflicted because of what we won't, rather than can't, do.
Quote from: mervl on Jun 08, 2012, 09:57:33... because of what we won't, rather than can't, do.
So, in effect, you're saying that the customer should adapt their requirements to suit the service they are being sold... not a suggestion that IDNet's PR department will spend much time on, I hope.
Quote from: mervl on Jun 08, 2012, 09:57:33
??? The really interesting thing for me about this discussion is how it shows (once again) - and I include myself in this, so I'm not criticising anyone - how many of our problems are self-inflicted because of what we won't, rather than can't, do.
I really can't agree with that at all.......I think what this discussion shows is that Idnet are willing to listen to peoples concerns and are willing to act on them.
What's this business about self inflicted problems....so are you saying that I have inflicted the caps on myself. I don't think so....I'm trying with great difficulty to work round them and that is why I started this discussion to see if others were having this problem that I had with FTTC.
The conclusion is, they do and Idnet have promised to look at after the Olympics which is very positive.........whether or not it clears up my problem is another thing but self inflicted problems..........no, I can't accept that, that is way out of order
(http://speedtest.net/result/1995100226.png)
This is getting silly and, arguably, a little too personal. When I worked, I was out at 7 am and back at 7pm, so AAISP would have worked brilliantly for me. I am retired so it doesn't. Equally, IDNet's off peak doesn't work for me either. I am sure that it is attractive to some but I am sure that the IDNet marketing department has cleverly worked out that only a proportion of its customers are night owls so it can comfortably offer lots of bandwidth to all in the knowledge that only a few will use it. I suspect that if all IDNet customers turned on IPlayer at the start of the off=peak period, the network would collapse. It is perfectly reasonable for consumers to look for the best broadband fit for their lifestyle based on, I suggest, essential and desirable criteria. If others can help with this choice then we should. Equally, all broadband suppliers will take note of changing lifestyles and react accordingly. Those that act slowly may well lose some customers to their competitors.
Quote from: Bill on Jun 08, 2012, 10:05:59
So, in effect, you're saying that the customer should adapt their requirements to suit the service they are being sold... not a suggestion that IDNet's PR department will spend much time on, I hope.
We do, of course, with some services, eg off-peak phone calls, Economy 7 electricity, parking charges etc.
We all have our own usage and time period requirements. Although I have now moved over to Zen, which does not have 'peak' and 'off peak', I find my usage pattern just the same as when I was with IDNet.
For example, I schedule my large downloads at night, not because I have more bytes available then, but because it doesn't impact on the other users in this household who wish to do other internet activities during the day.
We're all different and it's a matter of personal choice.
Quote from: JB on Jun 08, 2012, 11:56:57
We all have our own usage and time period requirements. Although I have now moved over to Zen, which does not have 'peak' and 'off peak', I find my usage pattern just the same as when I was with IDNet.
For example, I schedule my large downloads at night, not because I have more bytes available then, but because it doesn't impact on the other users in this household who wish to do other internet activities during the day.
We're all different and it's a matter of personal choice.
Good speech. The point is that you left IDNet and others are thinking of doing so. If more customers leave then content customers such as me will see less (if that is possible) network problems; conversely, IDNet will receive less income which will reduce its ability to increase package content. Most businesses like to see a static or slowly increasing share of the market to avoid over or under capacity.
I think that over time IDNet may either (a) have to review the peak/off-peak bandwidth ratio (i.e.; increase peak and decrease off-peak) and/or (b) review peak and off-peak times. It is called market forces. That said, they run a very good network and that undoubtedly is one of their top selling points.
Quote from: Ardua on Jun 08, 2012, 12:17:12
Good speech.
Thanks ;D
I actually left because of a number of technical issues, the tipping point for me being the way the mail server failure was handled a few months back. I was also seeing packet loss at busy times and in the evenings. This could have been caused by exchange contention or back haul overload or within IDNet themselves. The fact that I am not seeing any loss now on an identical Zen connection kinda indicates the latter was the case.
I think IDNet have a very difficult balancing act with plans and tariffs but I do think they need to listen to their customers wishes somewhat more or risk the scenario you have eluded to.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 08, 2012, 11:09:00
We do, of course, with some services, eg off-peak phone calls, Economy 7 electricity, parking charges etc.
No.
People buy the service that best fits their requirements at the time.
If their requirements change then admittedly adapting them to suit their current service may be an option, but if that's not possible or desirable they simply buy a different service.
Taking one of your examples, I wouldn't give much for your chances of getting the Economy 7 periods altered because your sleeping habits changed...
True, I was making the point that some services we buy with restrictions knowingly.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 08, 2012, 14:47:12
True, I was making the point that some services we buy with restrictions knowingly.
Agreed, but it's reasonable to assume that, though not ideal, that service may still be the
best fit- a perfect fit is unlikely!
And it may well be that even when requirements change the current service is
still the best fit out of those available... which is what I hope will happen with any amendments to IDNet's product range :fingers: :fingers:
Quote from: Bill on Jun 08, 2012, 14:59:45
Agreed, but it's reasonable to assume that, though not ideal, that service may still be the best fit- a perfect fit is unlikely!
And it may well be that even when requirements change the current service is still the best fit out of those available... which is what I hope will happen with any amendments to IDNet's product range :fingers: :fingers:
It goes without saying that a best fit for everyone would be a low latency, no packet loss, unlimited service at an affordable, fixed price. With the infrastructure lagging behind ever increasing demand, I guess that won't happen any time soon but it would be interesting to know exactly what kind of investment would be required to achieve it.
What does surprise me a little is that there are not more ISPs using AAISP's model. It wouldn't suit me purely because their cost per gigabyte during peak hours is jaw dropping and it appears to be pre-pay, but I do generally like the idea of a metered service.
I think the trouble with AAISP's pricing is understanding it in the first place. I bet there have been a few shocks when customers receive their invoices!
Quote from: Rik on Jun 08, 2012, 11:09:00
We do, of course, with some services, eg off-peak phone calls, Economy 7 electricity, parking charges etc.
It's half and half really. If the market does not provide, then someone else will spring up to fill the gap. If it still does not provide, users will find their own solutions, make do or do without.
I've never had trouble with parking charges, because I don't mind walking. So I find the cheapest/free space to park in. The car park can up the price to £10 for all I care, I won't be using it. ;D
Quote from: Simon on Jun 08, 2012, 16:37:58
I think the trouble with AAISP's pricing is understanding it in the first place. I bet there have been a few shocks when customers receive their invoices!
I sat down, determined to fully understand their pricing structure and compare the cost with my current usage pattern. I got there eventually and nearly fell of my chair at how much it would cost me.
I looked once, got a head ache and had to go and lay down instead!
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Jun 08, 2012, 16:51:40
I sat down, determined to fully understand their pricing structure and compare the cost with my current usage pattern. I got there eventually and nearly fell of my chair at how much it would cost me.
But if you are out all day during the week, then it works. FTTC evenings and weekends would cost £30 inc VAT for 100GB - 2000GB* starting at 6pm and finishing at 9 am, and all day Saturday and Sunday. If you surf during the day, then AAISP is probably not for you.
* 2000GB if you just connect from 2am to 6am.
I work from home :)
ZappaDP what was the figure you came to that nearly made you fall of the chair?
IMHO from what I have seen of AAISP I am not interested in them and does no one agree with me that their Website design needs some modernisation. It looks like it is run by a bunch of boring blokes who wear sweaters with holes in them, who wouldn't know modern if it hit them on the head. No, their tariffs are way to complicated for me. If Idnet adopt their pricing scheme, I'll be on the first train out of Idnet......I would even go to the dark side
With respect, the website design isn't really indicative of the service offered. You should've seen IDNet's old website! :laugh:
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 08, 2012, 18:01:32
ZappaDP what was the figure you came to that nearly made you fall of the chair?
IMHO from what I have seen of AAISP I am not interested in them and does no one agree with me that their Website design needs some modernisation. It looks like it is run by a bunch of boring blokes who wear sweaters with holes in them, who wouldn't know modern if it hit them on the head. No, their tariffs are way to complicated for me. If Idnet adopt their pricing scheme, I'll be on the first train out of Idnet......I would even go to the dark side
Keeping in mind that the last time I looked I was on ADSL, comparing like for like in terms of connection type and usage, it would have cost me £2112 per year inc. VAT. I've just done a new comparison with my current connection type (FTTC) and usage pattern and it would cost £921.6 per year inc. VAT.
In terms of design, I agree, their site is very outdated. In terms of content it's top notch though.
If you really want to understand how innovative AAISP is then Google 'Rev K me' and read his blog. The MD might seem to be somewhat eccentric but he clearly knows his stuff.
Quote from: Simon on Jun 08, 2012, 18:22:52
With respect, the website design isn't really indicative of the service offered. You should've seen IDNet's old website! :laugh:
The Website may not be indicative of the Service but who wants to pay £921 or even £2112. I know the saying "you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover" but I think in their case you should. It' no wonder they keep their tariffs complicated when you would have to pay that type of money. No I think that has nailed it for me, I'll not be going over to them.
It's no wonder you nearly fell off your chair.
Simon how long ago did Idnet have that laughable Website?........a number a years? Well Idnet moved on why could AAISP not?
Anyway I think we should stop talking about them their not even a contender.....certainly not in my opinion. The only contenders that I can see are Zen and ADSL24 or if we really want to live dangerously BT Infinity (certainly Griff is with them and he hasn't had any problems so far)
IDNet's old website was about 4-5 years ago. I wouldn't say it was laughable, but it wasn't exactly dynamic. Didn't mean they didn't offer an excellent service though.
Wow.........I have just visited http://revk.www.me.uk/ ....did you say he was eccentric, I think that word doesn't describe him. He's going on about Union Jacks and how most Union Jack Flags are not made right.......honestly get a life, who cares and he runs an innovative ISP...NO I don't think so :laugh:
TalkTalk do FTTC for £15/month if you are brave. :hide:
Yes Simon my very point 4 or 5 yrs ago and this ISP AAISP are still like that.....they haven't moved on, mind you, it's no wonder after looking at their Leaders Blog site. It's like a time warp that he's never got out off. :laugh:
Honestly, you can't compare Idnet with them.....Idnet are in a league of their own
Quote from: Glenn on Jun 08, 2012, 19:15:27
TalkTalk do FTTC for £15/month if you are brave. :hide:
Glen :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:........I like it :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 08, 2012, 19:10:43
Wow.........I have just visited http://revk.www.me.uk/ ....did you say he was eccentric, I think that word doesn't describe him. He's going on about Union Jacks and how most Union Jack Flags are not made right.......honestly get a life, who cares and he runs an innovative ISP...NO I don't think so :laugh:
It is a known fact that there is a thin line between brilliance and eccentricity. Read some of his earlier and more technical posts. In your position, I would also add Goscomb to my list.
The guy writes the code that runs on his own routers that power the AAISP service (the hardware is designed in conjunction with another ISP I understand)
I did look at AAISP myself at one point but was very concerned it would be very easy to run up large bills with them and the overage charges (any bandwidth used over your inclusive allowance) was quite high, think it was about £5/GB at the time and was mesured down to the byte so you would be charged a proportion, as I was a shift worker at the time I would use the net sometimes during the day and sometimes at night.
IDNet are a terrific bunch and will be moving my landline back to them in August but the on/off peak business would be problematic for me as I use iPlayer etc and a bit of xbox live, also I was concerned as there was no capping so I could run up an overage charge although they do send you e-mail to warn you and its available in the portal.
I settled on Zen because, like IDNet and indeed AAISP they are a business rather than consumer focussed ISP so the network is well provisioned and not crammed to capacity like a lot of the consumer ISPs but have just a straight allowance with capping so that costs couldn't spiral out of control as when you hit the cap you can only go to buy some more bandwidth so you can only use what you have paid for but can also purchase additional bandwidth which is 'banked' until used and your inclusive is always used first.
Goscomb, had a quick look at them seem to be similar but not as good as Idnet.... more expensive and again they have caps which aren't as good as Zens
Harry, how about fast.co.uk who are based in your neck of the woods I believe http://www.fast.co.uk/
I cannot pass comment as I've not used them.
Just seen this on the Xilo website. Do not know if it helps. There are some customer experiences on ISPReview:
RFibre 15GB - 40Mb/2Mb - 15GB Peak / UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (12Mb AR) - ex £19.16 inc £22.99
Fibre 30GB - 40Mb/2Mb - 30GB Peak / UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (12Mb AR) - ex £21.66 inc £25.99
Fibre 75GB - 40Mb/10Mb - 75GB Peak / UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (12Mb AR) - ex £27.49 inc £32.99
Fibre 125GB - 40Mb/10Mb - 125GB Peak/ UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (12Mb AR) - ex £29.16 inc £34.99
Fibre 75GB - 40Mb/10Mb - 75GB Peak / UM Off-peak - Enhanced Priority (16Mb AR) - ex £30.41 inc £36.49
Fibre 125GB - 40Mb/10Mb - 125GB Peak/ UM Off-peak - Enhanced Priority (16Mb AR) - ex £32.49 inc £38.99
Fibre+
Fibre+ 50GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 50GB Peak / UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (15Mb AR) - ex £24.99 inc £29.99
Fibre+ 75GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 75GB Peak / UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (15Mb AR) - ex £29.16 inc £34.99
Fibre+ 125GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 125GB Peak/ UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (15Mb AR) - ex £31.66 inc £37.99
Fibre+ 300GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 300GB Peak/ UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (15Mb AR) - ex £39.16 inc £46.99
Fibre+ 500GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 500GB Peak/ UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (15Mb AR) - ex £57.07 inc £68.48
Fibre+ 125GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 125GB Peak/ UM Off-peak - Enhanced Priority (30Mb AR) - ex £34.57 inc £41.48
Fibre+ 300GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 300GB Peak/ UM Off-peak - Enhanced Priority (30Mb AR) - ex £42.49 inc £50.99
Fibre+ 500GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 500GB Peak/ UM Off-peak - Enhanced Priority (30Mb AR) - ex £60.41 inc £72.49
AR = assured rate
UM = unmetered with 400GB fair usage check
Some other exciting news...
New FTTC activations will be free until end of July (£80 + VAT saving)
FTTC migrations from another FTTC provider will also be free until end of July (£50 + VAT saving)
No charge for existing users to upgrade to one of the new packages (£11 + VAT saving)
Peak times on all FTTC services is 8am-8pm Monday to Friday.
If you wish to place an order and are able to get FTTC, please contact sales and we'll get you placed in the activation queue. Packages will be on our availibility checker in due course.
Matt
Edited by Matt, Yesterday, 11:33 AM.
80/20Mb 50GB added.
Clearly, IDNet's competitors are looking hard at caps.
Yep, it's basically the same as a phone line costings. Charges per min during the day are more expensive than weekends/evenings. The only problem is on internet usage we don't have an easy thing such as minuets to go by, but MB or GB. So it's harder to translate that to the customer. The "unit" is too complicated IMO and they should stick to MB/GB. However, Electric meters and gas do sell per "unit", and are just as complicated! (standing charges, first volume costs etc). So I can understand AAISP doing the unit thing as well.
However, the same as a pay as you go mobile or home phone, it would be massively expensive for heavy users at peak times. However, those who use off peak it could be really cheap for. I do that on my mobile, and rarely go over my £10 monthly inclusives. :P
Quote from: Ardua on Jun 08, 2012, 20:36:47
Just seen this on the Xilo website. Do not know if it helps. There are some customer experiences on ISPReview:
Wow!
Fibre+ 75GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 75GB Peak / UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (15Mb AR) - ex £29.16 inc £34.99
FTTC migrations from another FTTC provider will also be free until end of July (£50 + VAT saving)
Peak times on all FTTC services is 8am-8pm Monday to Friday.
That's sounds like a pretty outstanding deal to me and unlike ADSL24, I've heard very good things about XILO.
pctech thanks for that, I don't know anything about Fast other than they appear to be an Northern Ireland Company (IMO that means nothing because they could be the biggest crooks in the world for all I know.....but I don't think they are) They have caps like Zen but they're not as generous. The only option is their FTTC 100GB which as it name suggests is a cap of a 100Gb for £51.05 whereas for a few pound more on Zen you get 400Gbs. I think there is no comparison
Yes Xilo looks good, certainly going in the right direction. I like the 8am to 8pm peak times, that is really good. I like this:-
Fibre+ 75GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 75GB Peak / UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (15Mb AR) - ex £29.16 inc £34.99
or I could probably live with the cheaper:-
Fibre+ 50GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 50GB Peak / UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (15Mb AR) - ex £24.99 inc £29.99
I wonder what the charges are if you go over
Definitely I like the 8 to 8......which Idnet say they wont be doing because of financial restraints. If Idnet aren't going to move on the times of the peak cap then maybe they could put their allowances up from 30gbs to say 75Gbs.....then I could probably think about staying
Guys the reviews are excellent for XILO....here are some of them:-
"Easily the best ISP I've ever used, although Gofast were very good also.
Every time I contact customer services I get a competent, technically aware individual that's keen to help. They always seem to come up with the goods too, I couldn't be happier with them"
"And the service has been excellent. We also have more Webspace than previously. The cost is slightly more but for the solid support and speed I'm quite happy to accept that."
Constantly good reviews....to me they sound like.........Idnet, only with a better pricing structure
More Xilo feedback at:
http://community.xilo.net/forum/7-customer-testimonials/ (http://community.xilo.net/forum/7-customer-testimonials/)
It is reseller using TT and Be* backbone for adsl. FTTC I guess maybe on a BT backbone.
Ardua, yes they certainly look good, I have joined their forum and am asking some questions just to see how they react. It's the 8 to 8 that attracts me.....nothing else and if Idnet cant move the times I have to look elsewhere but I can tell you now I am very very reluctant to move because my time here has been a joy and mostly hassle free. But hey, I haven't moved yet.....maybe things will happen and there will be changes here.....I can only wish
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 09, 2012, 09:49:16
Ardua, yes they certainly look good, I have joined their forum and am asking some questions just to see how they react. It's the 8 to 8 that attracts me.....nothing else and if Idnet cant move the times I have to look elsewhere but I can tell you now I am very very reluctant to move because my time here has been a joy and mostly hassle free. But hey, I haven't moved yet.....maybe things will happen and there will be changes here.....I can only wish
I confess the bit that I feel is somewhat strange in this exchange is that other business-related ISPs who are keen to protect the working day from customers who want to stream appear to be more flexible than IDNet over peak/off-peak times. Most with peak/off-peak times also treat weekends as off-peak as well. It doesn't bother me directly as I stay well within my peak bandwidth allocation but it seems odd, well at least to me, that IDNet seems to be positioning itself apart from its main niche competitors. I find it hard to believe that IDNet has more gamers than say AAISP or Zen, or that its business customers are more demanding than those who choose another provider. I chose IDNet 6 years ago because I did my research and could see that they offered a good package at only a slightly higher price than BT. Given what is happening to the market in the round, I can well see why others might see IDNet's reluctance to package/price match with its main niche rivals as an incentive to look elsewhere.
I shall most certainly be watching how the market evolves during the 10 months that I have left on my FTTC contract.
What network do they use? I've got Sky or Talktalk networks available only, and BT upgrading at the end of the month.
TalkTalk for ADSL and BT for the FTTC products, I believe.
Who, Xilo or AAISP? :P (I'm easily confused or loose track)
AAISP use BT or what was BE Wholesale (now O2 Wholesale) for ADSL like IDNet.
Xilo I think use BT for standard packages or Cable and Wireless or Talk Talk LLU for LLU packages.
I think in Harry's case it'll be BT for FTTC as personally I'm not aware of anyone else rolling out VDSL2 (the technical name for FTTC) at the moment in the UK.
pctech, yes you are right Xilo use BT for FTTC
I have just asked them what they charge if you go over the monthly cap and it is £1.10 + VAT per GB for overage.....which is reasonable but hopefully I wouldn't go over the 50Gbs against 30Gbs that I have with Idnet and the other thing is that their Peak time is 8.00am to 8.00pm The good thing about that is my daughter (who is the main culprit when it comes to using the internet) comes home from work at about 7.00pm can then wait the hour and stream/download till her hearts content
Guys what I have found strange is that Idnet are keen to look after Gamers. Honestly I never thought that this company would appeal to Gamers but maybe I am wrong, maybe it's a case of "Never judge a book by it's Cover" I always assumed that Idnet was a company that had a big business clients not gamers..........again the saying for that is "Never Assume anything because it makes an ass of U and me" :laugh:
Gamers and business tend to have similar needs Harry, they both want the network to have low latency and be responsive, in order to deliver this the network has to be planned in such a way that it's internal and external connections are never running at full capacity and that plenty of excess capacity is available to cope with peaks in demand.
It isn't possible for a network to be designed to allow everyone to use their connection to its full capacity all the time but the vast majority of customers won't do this anyway.
An ISP will measure the amount of traffic going over each of its connections at peak periods.
So for example IDNet might notice one of its links to the London Internet Exchange has 7 Gbps of traffic going over it (a good majority of UK ISP traffic goes over that exchange)
So if we assume this link has a capacity of 10 Gbps it is said to be running at 70% utilisation.
Depending on the network management policy of the ISP and how many new signups or higher capacity connections have been ordered recently they may decide to upgrade that link.
I suspect IDNet would probably not let utilisation get even that high before adding capacity, a consumer ISP would probably let it get to 100% then look at traffic management.
In addition to link capacity router CPU utilisation has to be monitored as these are the 'engines' of the network, again consumer ISPs will probably buy something that is good enough at the time they buy it and wring the last drop of performance out of it.
A smaller, business focussed ISP will buy a more expensive, higher performance router that gives them plenty of headroom and upgrade possibilities.
@PCTech. Thanks - a helpful explanation but it still doesn't explain why IDNet is so out of kilter with its main competitors regarding peak and off-peak times. From a layman's perspective, it would appear that IDNet's network utilisation is during certain times of the day closer to the 100% mark than say Xilo or AAISP. Am I also right in assuming that Netters who utilise their off-peak allocation to a maximum are possibly using torrents rather than just playing games? I am not being critical of IDNet, I am just trying to understand why they are so different? That said, I value the fact that my line runs at maximum speeds up and down for most of the day.
This is a personal opinion and not based on any inside knowledge.
I have no idea what IDNet's network or BT/O2 link utilisation runs at, only Simon would be able to tell you that nor indeed do I know AAISP's or Zen's utilisation.
AAISP did increase their prices last year http://aaisp.net.uk/news-vat-20.html whereas neither Zen nor IDNet did apart from adding the VAT increase, why this is I don't know, I can only assume the various smaller ISPs run their businesses in different ways and one may want to add a higher margin than another.
pctech and Ardua.......thanks for that information. pctech I think your information is spot on and explains the dilemma that Idnet are in very clearly and to be honest I feel a real "Heal" for looking elsewhere because they have always been great with me.
Also this morning I explained to my wife what I had been thinking of doing, moving to Xilo and tried to explain that this would help the pain and anxiety I face each month when my daughter takes us over the allowance useage.
What my wife said has made me rethink and it is this:-
1 You have always been pleased with the Service you have gotten from Idnet, so why change?
2 You think the grass is always greener on the other side of the hill.....and it isn't always
3 If this is such a great deal from the new company Xilo then there will be loads taking it up and then you might find the Xilo are in trouble and may introduce traffic shaping or other methods to control your downloading
4 Idnet have said they will look at the caps after the olympics, so why not give them a chance and see what they come up with? to which I replied that Xilo have a special offer of free migration till the end of July and also Idnet have said they wont move the peak times.....to which she replied "give them a chance"
So you see the pressure is building and I don't know what to do. If I wait till after the olympics then I will lose the deal of free migration but as my wife says I might move and suddenly find that this new company Xilo can't cope with the numbers that come to them and I find that the service goes down the pan and I have a year (contract period) of bad service till I get back to Idnet
Oh decisions decisions......I just don't know what to do and now I feel worse after pctech has explained the problems that Idnet have.....and here I am walking out on them and they have served me well....oh dear, this is not easy :-\ ??? :-\
(http://speedtest.net/result/1995100226.png)
@pctech Thanks.
@kerrso I have been where you are. Even the thought of changing e-mail addresses became a big issue. Am I pleased that I stayed with IDNet - the answer is 'yes'. As you know, IDNet run a very good network. Fortunately, apart from visits by grandchildren we are not as a rule big down loaders. Best of luck with what ever decision you decide to take.
Ardua, thanks for that, so you can appreciate the dilemma I'm having. You say that you had a big issue with email addresses........well that also could be a big big problem for me because my work address is idnet and as I work from home part-time I need to be contacted with a simple Outlook Email address that Solicitors and clients can contact me at. They have all got used to that address and then I go and change it........yes I know it isn't hard to change and I could use my gmail address which is easy peasey but I just like Idnets......so like you Ardua I can see Emails becoming a problem :-\ ??? :-\
(http://speedtest.net/result/1995100226.png)
@kerrso05 Why not consider buying your own domain name for about £7 for two years. Names from providers such as 123Reg or Heart Internet come with included email forwarding to any address of your choice. If you move ISP you simply make a change on a web page and your email is forwarded to your mailbox on your new ISP.
As far as your family and friends know, there has been no change. The big advantage is you then have the same email address(es) for life. (eg. you@kerrso05.co.uk).
JB yes that is worth considering.....I didn't know it was a cheap as that....£7 for two years is nothing :)
Mind you I don't see anything for £7.....but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place :o
Harry, have a look at http://www.netcetera.co.uk
I use them for a domain (£5.95 for two years on a .co.uk) and £11 per year for just basic e-mail hosting, their support is also very responsive (usual response to a ticket about 20-40 minutes and that is 24-7, they are based on the Isle of Man)
1 and 1 also do cheaper but I ran into some issues and the support was found wanting shall we say.
Wanting an English speaker for a start...
Yeah
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 10, 2012, 16:16:16
Mind you I don't see anything for £7.....but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place :o
http://www.heartinternet.co.uk/domain-names/
.co.uk domain names for £2.99 per year plus VAT = £7.18. I use Heart quite a lot, but have no connection with them. After setting up a domain name from their domain name management page you can set up any number of email forwarding options. Heart Internet were set up by the guys who established and later sold Webfusion/123Reg.
A couple of years ago when I was involved in an action group opposing the construction of a local animal products processing plant I was able to set up forwarding to all the individual members of the committee and also forwarding to a web site that I designed and maintained.
Fortunately, we won the appeal and the plant never went ahead.
Edit: After reading the posts below from Rik and pctech, I don't rate 1and1 too highly either and setting up email forwarding with them is more laborious.
Quote from: Lance on Jun 07, 2012, 23:53:47
Something to bear in mind when comparing packages and caps is that with Idnet uploads are unmetered and unlimited. This may not be the case for other ISPs which sometimes include upload bandwidth within the capped allowances.
I believe that the Zen packages are unmetered upload
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 10, 2012, 13:38:17
4 Idnet have said they will look at the caps after the olympics, so why not give them a chance and see what they come up with? to which I replied that Xilo have a special offer of free migration till the end of July and also Idnet have said they wont move the peak times.....to which she replied "give them a chance"
I thought that migrations are free anyway, or don't Ofcom rules apply to FTTC?
ukwiz......it is free to leave an ISP as long as you have completed your contract but it isn't free to join another ISP so when I said "Xilo have a special offer of free migration till the end of July" I was meaning that if I was to join Xilo during the month of July then it would be free (normally it costs £50 + VAT) because they have special opening offer.
You will find that Zen and Xilo have unmetred uploads and so do some others but not all of them and you do have to take these matters into consideration.
But why are you worried because surely you aren't thinking of leaving this Great ISP - IDNET especially when it appears from your profile that you are a new netter :-\
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 12, 2012, 00:23:29
ukwiz......it is free to leave an ISP as long as you have completed your contract but it isn't free to join another ISP so when I said "Xilo have a special offer of free migration till the end of July" I was meaning that if I was to join Xilo during the month of July then it would be free (normally it costs £50 + VAT) because they have special opening offer.
So there is an activation fee charged by BT whether or not you have already been activated? ADSL transfers don't have a cost after the first installation
Quote
But why are you worried because surely you aren't thinking of leaving this Great ISP - IDNET especially when it appears from your profile that you are a new netter :-\
Quite simply, caps. 30GB is not enough
Quote from: kerrso05 on Jun 12, 2012, 00:23:29
ukwiz......it is free to leave an ISP as long as you have completed your contract but it isn't free to join another ISP so when I said "Xilo have a special offer of free migration till the end of July" I was meaning that if I was to join Xilo during the month of July then it would be free (normally it costs £50 + VAT) because they have special opening offer.
I thought that I have seen something on TBB that some ISPs were not changing an activation fee for a FTTC transfer in as the modem etc are already installed. Sadly, I cannot find the relevant thread.
Quote from: Ardua on Jun 12, 2012, 13:37:42
I thought that I have seen something on TBB that some ISPs were not changing an activation fee for a FTTC transfer in as the modem etc are already installed. Sadly, I cannot find the relevant thread.
Edit: Found a passing reference to the fact that as of April 2012, BT Wholesale charges ISPs £50 for a FTTC to FTTC transfer but as FTTC take up expands ISPs are hoping that this will fall to the normal ADSL migration charge.
Also it's £40 to go back to WBC or 20CN which may seem daft but I can underside why if your a fair distance from the cabinet. It gets you away from the long term contract
Quote from: ukwiz on Jun 11, 2012, 13:41:57
I believe that the Zen packages are unmetered upload
That is correct.
Guys I still haven't moved and here is the reason. As you know I was looking at Xilo which seemed very good. The reports seem very good and the reviews exceptional and then they released new packages for the FTTC which at first seem very good. I particularly liked:-
Fibre+ 50GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 50GB Peak / UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (15Mb AR) - ex £24.99 inc £29.99Fibre+ 75GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 75GB Peak / UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (15Mb AR) - ex £29.16 inc £34.99
Fibre+ 125GB - 80Mb/20Mb - 125GB Peak/ UM Off-peak - Standard Priority (15Mb AR) - ex £31.66 inc £37.99
The I asked this question:-
Quote"The other thing I wanted to ask is are Uploads unlimited or is Uploading data part of the overall cap?"
and here is the answer:-
QuoteUploaded data does form part of your usage allowance.
This has put a stop to my thoughts of joining Xilo. I couldn't have uploading data forming part of my overall usage allowance, that would mean I would smash the usage allowance of 50Gbs each month. Naively I thought the 50 Gb allowance was for Download usage only but it isn't.
So it looks like Idnet have got me for another couple of months.....roll on the Olympics till we get these new caps.....I can't wait.....we have this month past our allowance by 3Gbs and I suspect it will end up at 5Gbs.....which isn't too bad....an extra £5....I can live with that.
Look at this speed ;D you can't be bad to that :laugh:
(http://speedtest.net/result/2031543541.png)
PS and that speed is with wifi....not bad at all
Perhaps the grass isn't always greener...
Quote from: Simon on Jun 27, 2012, 12:44:38
Perhaps the grass isn't always greener...
It's not the colour of the grass that I have reservations about, it's the times it's allowed to grow :P
I barely use a tenth of a GB uploading. Although it could reach a couple if I did more youtube stuff. :P
Quote from: Simon on Jun 27, 2012, 12:44:38
Perhaps the grass isn't always greener...
Yes Simon I do agree but I just wanted to point out that problem before someone did something stupid.
What I have found out through this thread is that you have look at every aspect of what you are getting within a deal. I was already to go for it when by chance I just thought I would ask that question about the uploading as they hadn't said anything about uploading.
Mine you I still like the 8.00pm to 8.00am off-peak part of the deal and just wish Idnet would expand their off-peak hours.....even 10.00pm to 9.00am would suit me....no harm in asking and wishing
(http://speedtest.net/result/2031543541.png)
So, now that the Olympics is over....
Quote from: ukwiz on Aug 19, 2012, 18:21:52
So, now that the Olympics is over....
I doubt that I will see any difference as from a BB perspective the Olympics had negligible effect on my line. Well done IDNet.
Seriously though, with massive increases in the download allowance from PlusNet ( with free connection and no OP download restrictions), I can well see why heavy BB users will be tempted by such offers.
Well Idnet....what is the news. Now that the Olympics are over (and team Team GB did so well) what are the new caps? ???
As far as I am aware, we (IDNetters) haven't been told anything as yet.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Jun 06, 2012, 14:44:14
We do keep reviewing our bandwidth allowances. And we do so bearing in mind our performance targets. We have, in the past, not quite hit those by being a little too optimistic in the size of the monthly bandwidth allowance that we can include in the packages. We are determind not to make that mistake again. We can only compete with the big ISPs on quality, because we cannot compete on price. This means that we have to ensure that those customers who buy from us because of low latency and low jitter receive the performance that they need. We expect to review our packages again after the Olympics rather than before as many events will be held during the business day.
One of our customers wrote in his blog recently about his experience of using our ADSL compared to a cable connection: http://blog.mythic-beasts.com/?p=231&preview=true
Hopefully they will change the caps and hopefully soon because BT Infinity have been on the phone again asking have I made my decision on whether or not to move....I really can't wait for ever to make the decision but I did say that I would make my decision after the Olympics and idnets decision
The Olympics don't finish until the middle of September,it all starts again next week.
Quote from: Glenn on Aug 20, 2012, 08:06:57
The Olympics don't finish until the middle of September,it all starts again next week.
Strictly speaking, the Olympics have finished, and the Paralympics start soon
Regards
David
Quote from: ukwiz on Aug 20, 2012, 18:04:55
Strictly speaking, the Olympics have finished, and the Paralympics start soon
Regards
David
Strictly strictly speaking
The Olympics finished on the 15th of April 1896. But the 2012 Olympics have more recently finished. ;) :whistle:
Pedants unite! :laugh:
I totally agree with ukwiz reading of this in that Simon from Idnet said that they would review the monthly bandwidth allowance after the Olympics....... well the Olympics is over and a different games is about to start called the Paralympics....I think everybody understands that.
Come on Simon, I know you watch this board from to time.....what about a decision? ??? ........please
Simon is on holiday right now, Harry, I'd suggest a direct approach to IDNet.
Quote from: Rik on Aug 21, 2012, 08:05:20
I'd suggest a direct approach to IDNet.
Rik - I confess that I have never understood IDNet's position re this site. Other ISP owners, particularly the niche ones, seem very keen to intervene when there are allegations of poor support and/or the possibility of damage to their Company's reputation. As you well know, support forums are often one of the first ports of call when BB users are searching out the possibility of an ISP move. A few months ago, there was a similar thread to this on AN Other's forum and the owner came back almost immediately with a response that he was fully aware of the product offerings of his competitors; that his products were under constant review and revised packages would be available on the main site by 'x'. As Simon is away on holiday, I am not sure that a call to Support on this particular issue will serve any useful purpose whatsoever.
Quote from: Simon on Aug 20, 2012, 19:48:44
Pedants unite! :laugh:
Well, I had to use Google myself. :P I thought it was the 1900/1904 or 1912 Olympics that were first, and I was totally wrong. :red:
Back on topic, BT have extended the install date of our exchange upgrade
another 6 months! :bawl: I know it's only a couple of Gig from ASDL to ASDL2+ but there is also a slight savings in the cost, so I could reasonably upgrade to a higher download cap. But the longer BT faff about, the more I'm paying right now. :(
Quote from: Ardua on Aug 21, 2012, 09:02:31
Rik - I confess that I have never understood IDNet's position re this site. Other ISP owners, particularly the niche ones, seem very keen to intervene when there are allegations of poor support and/or the possibility of damage to their Company's reputation.
You're not the only one to comment on that. I came here from Be and I think it says something that I (and others) are still regular posters to their forums. Even though they have no FTTC offering at the moment and are losing customers they welcome our discussions of the product. Their support staff are regular forum contributors and always willing to chat including discussions on FTTC. The most important lesson that IDNet could probably learn is that nearly everyone who's left Be has vowed to return to them as soon as they can offer an FTTC product. I certainly will. Frankly I'd pay my way out of my IDNet contract to rejoin. It's not that I don't like IDNet - it's just that I 'only' feel like a customer. Same as most other ISPs. With Be I actually get that 'family feeling'. I normally distrust the idea of 'brand loyalty' since I don't expect my loyalty to be reciprocated but Be are a rare exception.
I'm sure Rik will answer for himself. However from my perspective since simon-idnet is the only ISP member who visits this forum on a regular basis and is currently away. I think therefore that's Rik's suggestion is fair otherwise Harry's request for information may or indeed will go unnoticed.
There has always been some distance between the forum and IDNet, they have always respected the fact the forum was started as a user-to-user structure. Nonetheless, they do read posts, Simon in particular, and will comment when appropriate. However, we are not the official mouthpiece for the company, though sometimes that becomes blurred.
Because of my recent habit of laying about ;) , I have not had as much contact with Simon & Tim as usual, so am not aware of their plans. My point to Harry is that the company doesn't stop when Simon is away, so it's always worth direct contact.
Oddly, it's the family feeling which keeps me with IDNet. :dunno:
Yep. Other forums tend to be "official + run by staff", this is just an "official customer meeting place". Not really one for staff. To add to that, most other forums are just run by "yes sir" staff (like I have seen with O2!!!) who just lie or pass off problems that customers put forward. :(
I've not seen IDNet do that, they have instead kept factual, concise and polite in all their posts. That and I guess they are working hard every day, not browsing Facebook like other places! :laugh:
I thought Simon's (IDNet) post had made the position perfectly clear? Their priority is the QoS (which in simple terms to a home dumbo like me means most obviously latency and jitter). I can understand why these are important for commercial customers and hence their business. The have been caught out in the past, apparently, with overreaching themselves on allowances, so are wary. Again I understand that. I have the same feeling towards IDNet (particularly compared to other ISPs I have used in the past), as Andrue does towards Be - others do not apparently share that view of Be from what I read, nor will they share the same view of IDNet. But I don't view my loyalty as a straightjacket - I'd leave if they couldn't meet my needs and I wasn't prepared to change them to suit.
It's human to think that everyone must feel the same way as we do. They don't. We are all so impatient in the modern world (it was ever so) - but at least we have the competitive market as a (partial) remedy. As they used to say before political correctness: Mohammed has to move to the mountain, not expect the mountain to move to Mohammed - with my apologies to our Islamic brethren. And I do think we are taking the mick if we try to run IDNet's business for them. Sorry.
Quote from: mervl on Aug 21, 2012, 09:59:34
And I do think we are taking the mick if we try to run IDNet's business for them.
I do not think for one moment that anybody is trying to run IDNet's business for them. I accept that IDNet may have a business model that is focussed on business users and gamers who are happy to pay more for QoS, and they may not care if heavy downloaders drift away. IDNet offers packages at a price and it is up to individual consumers to make a decision on whether what is on offer is suitable for their needs. My point was that 'potential' customers will look at this forum and may sense that some of IDNet's customers are weighing up the pros and cons of a move to another ISP. As stated above, Simon has stated publicly that IDNet will be reviewing its packages after the Olympics. Surely, all that is required is a simple 'yes, we have that in hand. Hope to have something to go public with by 'x''.
Quote from: Ardua on Aug 21, 2012, 10:33:52My point was that 'potential' customers will look at this forum and may sense that some of IDNet's customers are weighing up the pros and cons of a move to another ISP.
To be fair, I doubt you would find many other ISP forums where similar discussions are not taking place. Personally, I don't think that necessarily has a negative impact on new customers, as the ones floating away may not be the same type of users as those looking to join. It's horses for courses, and there may be just as many weighing up the pros and cons of joining, as there are of those thinking of looking elsewhere. Obviously, IDNet don't want to lose customers, but as a 'niche' company, they can't appeal to every type of user, all of the time.
Not anymore, the market has become too complex.
Guys I tell you were I am on this (for what it is worth)
First of all (as usual) Thanks to Rik for letting me know about Simon's Holiday Leave....that's not a problem, everyone is in entitled leave and I don't begrudge him that....he deserves it for all the hard work he carries out for all of us throughout the year.
I don't think I will approach Idnet direct about a promise made by Simon....no I would rather wait until he comes back and then raise the issue again.
My feelings on Idnet are they are best Internet Provider I have ever come across and for me the feeling is of a caring business that is really interested in it's customers (not only their money) and that is the main reason I have stayed this long but and it is a big BUT these Caps in the FTTC part of the Business are really starting to bite and nearly every month I am running over my target. I have tried everything to keep it down from monitoring my two daughters use to changing the options on the Google Browser....all to no avail......so I need to see if Idnet will raise their caps or amend their peak hours (which I think they have said they will be ruling that out) I think I have been patient and am willing to wait till Simon comes back after leave but if Idnet doesn't amend these Caps then I will have no other choice than look elsewhere.....unfortunately elsewhere doesn't really suit me. As you all know I did look at other options....I even put my name down for Be's FTTC but nothing has happened there. At the moment BT Infinity (the dark side) have contacted me and so as to test them and distract them from myself I decided to give them the business for my mothers home. She is 82, not interested at all in the internet but would be keen to Skype my Brother who lives in Dubai plus her phone was with BT and she didn't want to change the supplier (not at her time of life)
So they took the job........and what a mess they made of it........one minute it was registered and then it wasn't (some excuse about her line had been in her name for a long time) then the equipment was to come to my house then it didn't. then the start date was put back and then they didn't know if it was registered to have broadband....etc etc.........a total and utter disaster. I made one call to their Customer Service line and ask to speak to the Director of Customer Service only to be told that I couldn't speak to him on the phone but if I had a problem then I should write to him....I explained the problem and they asked me if I wanted to speak to a Call centre manager....I refused and gave up. Suddenly I had the original BT guy that I had been dealing with on the phone apologising and saying that it was all his fault and if he gave my mother £50 compensation would that stop any complaint . Of course I had enough and I agreed to this and then everything went smoothly. It was installed the day they said it would be, the equipment came by courier to the house when they said it would and everything is working like a treat.....oh and my mum got her compensation without paying a dime. So what does that show you. BT are useless but once you put them under some pressure things come good and then deliver. Am I willing to move to that and face those kind of hassles again.....I don't know but here is my dilemma they don't have any caps (well not at the moment)
Hi All
We will be anouncing new packages when our new website is launched. The design is finalised and now we are working on the copy and then the pages can be built. We expect to launch the new site next month.
Regards
Simon
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Aug 28, 2012, 13:01:52
Hi All
We will be anouncing new packages when our new website is launched. The design is finalised and now we are working on the copy and then the pages can be built. We expect to launch the new site next month.
Regards
Simon
Simon
Thanks for the update....I take it when you say next month that is September 2012 which begins on Saturday?....surely you don't mean October?
Some of us have been waiting for such announcement for quite some time and are glad it is coming.....in my opinion it couldn't happen fast enough....lets hope I'm not disappointed.
Quote from: kerrso05 on Aug 28, 2012, 13:39:20
September 2012 which is Saturday?
Unless I'm mistaken, there are 30 days in September ;)
Thanks for the update Simon.
Of course I hope the new packages will be helpful to those that need them, but heck, new website - so my lazy [insecure, I know] autologins won't work anymore and I'll probably be exiled for ever (to cheers!) :laugh:
As long as the URL doesn't change, which I doubt it will, auto logins will still work, I would have thought. :)
Hope they don't use Flash.
;D
I've recently bought some Ethernet extenders which enables me to connect my TV to the internet and I've been using it to view the BBC iPlayer, and YouTube etc. Consequently I went over my download limit by quite a bit last month and have just had notification from Idnet that I'm on course to do so again this month too. As I'll probably be viewing the iPlayer more often in the future I cannot justify the cost of my present package (Home Plus) with its download limit of 15Gb at Peak time. I'm therefore interested in any increase in download limits as I don't really want to have to view after midnight because I have to be up at about 6:00am for work.
It's not just the iPlayer etc but the rest of the family are also increasing their internet use too and I'd have to compare what others are offering for similar charges. I appreciate that the quality of service is good but I have friends who are with BT and Virgin and despite their reputation here they are very happy with their service (mind you I have friends who are with Sky and they say they are unable to watch any videos on their PC as it stops after a few seconds).
I also appreciate that Idnet's customer service is good but apart from when I first joined, enquired about a friend joining and a problem with logging in to the customer portal once I've never needed to contact them (although you could argue that the because the service is so good there's rarely a need to anyway).
Personally, I've only ever watched one full programme on iPlayer, as I record everything I want to watch on my PVR, planning from the weekly TV guides, so my broadband usage hasn't really changed.
People's viewing habits and bandwidth usage are obviously changing, though, and hopefully IDNet's new packages, when announced, will reflect this to some extent, without compromising on quality of service.
Aka, walking a fine line.
Yep. running an ISP must be a nightmare these days.
Quote from: pctech on Sep 06, 2012, 17:31:01
Yep. running an ISP must be a nightmare these days.
I'm not sure it was ever a piece of cake but it must be hell now. Crazy low residential prices. Crazy high residential demand for bandwidth (jitter free if at all possible). Major,
major infrastructure investment required. Regulator insistent on encouraging diversity and competition. Copyright and parental controls issues raised by government.
I don't envy ISPs one bit :eyebrow:
Quote from: Simon on Sep 06, 2012, 14:27:13
Personally, I've only ever watched one full programme on iPlayer, as I record everything I want to watch on my PVR, planning from the weekly TV guides, so my broadband usage hasn't really changed.
People's viewing habits and bandwidth usage are obviously changing, though, and hopefully IDNet's new packages, when announced, will reflect this to some extent, without compromising on quality of service.
Having iPlayer on the TV along with Twitter, Facebook and Skype (video) and on demand services like love film, Netflix, the Sony entertainment network 4OD etc then the fact its a web browser, let alone the things the blu-ray player does as well along with two smartphones, a playstation3 and Sky on demand and then the iMac plus all the updates I burn happily 70GB-80GB a month peak. As others have said sitting up after midnight to watch films is not something I want to do, its a difficult time when smart TV's and other gadgets are being pushed into homes so quickly now.
Quote from: Simon on Sep 06, 2012, 14:27:13
Personally, I've only ever watched one full programme on iPlayer, as I record everything I want to watch on my PVR, planning from the weekly TV guides, so my broadband usage hasn't really changed.
Almost the same here. I think in the last twelve months I've twice had to resort to iPlayer or itvPlayer but that was because my Sky PVR suffered a disk failure. It's not like it takes long to just browse the EPG for a day or so ahead and Series Link ensures nothing is ever forgotten. Working with only two tuners sometimes requires ingenuity but our strategy now is to record an early morning repeat in preference to a prime-time showing and so far that's helping spread the load.
In fact I'd say the lack of series link for things like iPlayer is a major drawback. We watch so many series (5 or 6 hours of TV most nights :red:) that keeping track of series is nigh-on impossible. With most internet players only keeping programmes for 7 days it would be too easy for us to miss something. Oh and although a couple of our boxes support more than one player it'd be a pain to have to switch between them. At least normally we only have to look at our Sky box and occasionally check the 'overflow' Humax HDR.
I think on Iplayer you can mark programmes as favourites and it will then download, if you wish, automatically all others in the series from that point on.
Quote from: andrue on Sep 06, 2012, 19:34:38
....... Crazy low residential prices. Crazy high residential demand for bandwidth ............
I don't envy ISPs one bit :eyebrow:
I agree and don't think there is much point in the smaller ISPs trying to compete in the residential/consumer market. This market is exceptionally price sensitive and customer service is really regarded as optional. Those of us on here are prepared to pay for what iDNet has to offer: good service, no throttling and low levels of network congestion. Nonetheless we are very much in a minority.
Much better for the smaller ISP to concentrate on B2B where high levels of service and technical expertise are what is needed. Price is less of a consideration in this market. If they gain subscribers in the consumer space then that is icing on the cake, but it wouldn't then be their primary focus.
Demand for bandwidth and the opportunities for bundling are always going to favour the larger suppliers.
Honestly Guys I don't mean to be harsh but some people writing here appear to be saying "I feel sorry for Idnet...it's not their fault that they have low caps....it's someone else's fault".
Hold it, Hold It.....They are a Business....they aren't a Charity....they are in this business to make MONEY....you know that evil thing that makes the world go round. Fact: if they weren't making money they wouldn't be in this business. Yes it is hard to compete against the big players like BT, Sky etc but they do have to compete and the way to do it is offer a Customer Service second to none (which they do already) give value for money and have reasonable caps (which they don't have....and I hope they address soon....but the way things are going it looks like next month OCTOBER.....which I suppose is... after the Olympics)
Honestly I think we have exhausted this topic beyond it's worth.....I don't know about anyone else, but I want to see some action.
I know it probably seems I have my Grumpy Head :red: on today but I think my patience is wearing thin.....and hearing the feeble excuses of why they don't do anything has really taken me over the edge :mad:
Harry, they've said they're reviewing the packages, and will make an announcement during this month. All we've been discussing is how different people have different usage requirements, and that it must be difficult for ISPs to keep everyone happy. I don't see any harm in that.
There is unfortunately a trade off between customer service and bandwidth.
In the vast majority of cases those offering oodles of bandwidth often spend little on support and that is just fine when all is going well.
The true test of whether an ISP is any good is when stuff breaks, do the front line staff have the knowledge to properly diagnose the issue and give appropriate advice or set third parties such as BT in motion to affect a fix or is it script based and the priority is to palm you off with anything just to get onto the next caller?
I think you'll find the big ISPs with oodles of bandwidth take the latter approach while the likes of IDNet take the former.
Quote from: Simon on Sep 07, 2012, 19:52:48
Harry, they've said they're reviewing the packages, and will make an announcement during this month. All we've been discussing is how different people have different usage requirements, and that it must be difficult for ISPs to keep everyone happy. I don't see any harm in that.
Simon
When did I start this thread?
May 30, 2012, 20:49:17
and this is now when?
September 07, 2012, 21:47
I think that says it all, do you not?
Don't get me wrong.....I think that "
Idnet are the Best Internet Provider in the UK........if not the world" but that doesn't make me want to religiously hang on their every word like as if it was from the Almighty. They are business people trying to make an honest buck. I can feel empathy with them and think that they are getting it rough in this economic climate.....but then again who isn't? Their business is ruled and shaped by competition and at the moment and even back in May of this year when I posed the question " I really don't want to jump ship but please look at these caps" they were loosing out to the competition.
I accept your point "they've said they're reviewing the packages"....I accept that totally but come on how long does it take? IMHO it is taking far too long.
I think I am a grumpy old idnetter.....who is loosing it :rant2: :mad: :rant2: :mad: :shake:
As you say, they are in the business of making money. Therefore they will undoubtably be compiling a number of scenarios predicting all the factors starting with the do nothing option right through to give everyone loads of bandwidth at a lower cost. Hopefully the most advantageous business model is one that encourages growth through an increase in caps at the current price and it seems this is the assumption made by people on here. Working through these models take time, and just because a customer requested a review in May it doesn't mean it will be done immediately.
Simon was very clear a decision would be made this month and therefore I don't think anybody is in the position to moan that a week into the month nothing gas yet been communicated. As I said before, September has 30 days.
When I read Simon_idnet post I get the impression that any package review has been done already and they have the new packages thought up already and they will be announced when the new site goes live this month.
Which is fair, and to be honest it's not long to wait.
And yes I'm hoping for a good bandwidth increase at good prices! ;D
But if the packages don't suit me then my contract is up in around 3-4 months & I will just go with BT option 2 as I don't do much ping sensitive stuff anymore (game playing) & the BT care twitter staff seems to get things done if you tweet them.
One thing that does put me off though, is that I've heard FTTC to FTTC migrations cost £100 ???
Quote from: psp83 on Sep 07, 2012, 23:20:57
One thing that does put me off though, is that I've heard FTTC to FTTC migrations cost £100 ???
Well, if it does, then Ofcom are not doing a very good job.
Oh, wait, Ofcom already do a lousy job
Quote from: psp83 on Sep 07, 2012, 23:20:57... I've heard FTTC to FTTC migrations cost £100 ???
Yes, they do (or thereabouts).
It's a rip-off, but I suppose BT have to be good at something >:(
I may be wrong but I do not think that BT charges anything for incoming FTTC migrations. You are just stuck with an 18 month contract.
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4039493-fttc-migration-aaisp-bt-complete.html?fpart=all&vc=1
There is a charge, sometimes waived by the ISP, for FTTC migrations to A N Other ISP.
AA quote a price of £100 , however the Openreach price list shows a fee of £50 + vat for migrations of same product/premises.
Quote from: Steve on Sep 08, 2012, 18:23:54
AA quote a price of £100 , however the Openreach price list shows a fee of £50 + vat for migrations of same product/premises.
Still expensive for a migration, which I guess is done by someone in an office somewhere and takes about 60 secs to enter.
And if a ISP wants my money that much, they would do it free or next to nothing.
I agree it's not really permitting choice.
Quote from: psp83 on Sep 08, 2012, 19:13:33
And if a ISP wants my money that much, they would do it free or next to nothing.
IDNet also appear to charge for inward migration on FTTC:
If you already have broadband you can switch your connection to IDNet free of charge
(excluding our Fibre broadband packages). (https://www.idnet.net/solutions/home/broadband/default-fibre.jsp)
(my italic, look on the "Why choose IDNet" tab)
but I can't find what the charge is.
So why is normal broadband free but FTTC is not? Do they have to do a physical change or something?
Not to my knowledge, but I don't know for sure.
Quote from: psp83 on Sep 08, 2012, 19:53:37
So why is normal broadband free but FTTC is not? Do they have to do a physical change or something?
Isn't there a fairly low limit on the number of connections supported by the big cabinets? Whereas normal ADSL only requires special equipment at the exchange so it's much easier to provision lots of services across everyone using the exchange, rather than risk running out of DSLAM ports in whatever big cabinet is next to your normal one and have to move the line to another cabinet.
Quote from: gizmo71 on Sep 08, 2012, 21:58:37
Isn't there a fairly low limit on the number of connections supported by the big cabinets? Whereas normal ADSL only requires special equipment at the exchange so it's much easier to provision lots of services across everyone using the exchange, rather than risk running out of DSLAM ports in whatever big cabinet is next to your normal one and have to move the line to another cabinet.
That shouldn't really count if you're already a FTTC customer as you've already got a port. That will only count towards new FTTC connections.
Surely its only a database change to say who your line connects to ?
Lots of companies charge around £25-£125 to send a letter/process a request these days... because they can. But the finders pointed at BT/Openworld here, not IDNet IMO. ;)
Quote from: psp83 on Sep 08, 2012, 22:18:17
That shouldn't really count if you're already a FTTC customer as you've already got a port. That will only count towards new FTTC connections.
Surely its only a database change to say who your line connects to ?
Good point. Mind you, if BT are anything like where I work it takes half a dozen people to approve, execute and verify a one row change in a production database... :rant2:
Quote from: Steve on Sep 08, 2012, 18:23:54
the Openreach price list shows a fee of £50 + vat for migrations of same product/premises.
Agreed, but many ISPs are already discounting this cost to attract inward business. That said, I am not sure that the migration charge would feature that highly in my list of criteria when choosing an ISP. If FTTC follows the same pattern as ADSL, then I suspect there will come a time when this charge falls by the wayside; particularly, when cheaper VSDL2 router/modems flood the market.
I maybe wrong but I thought that, just as with ADSL migrations a VDSL2 migration simply involves rerouting the connection from the losing ISP to the gaining ISP.
Perhaps we forget that telecomms (and other utilities in the UK) are commercial operations since privatisation (it was the point after all, and many of us made an easy profit at the time), subject to those prices which are set by the regulator, under legislative rules. So prices are what the market will bear. And where do we think BT gets the millions it is investing, including the match-funding for BDUK (clue: it doesn't own a money printing press or even any of the fabled money-trees) - from the consumers; and even investors want a return (or I just hope that none of you expect a pension or even to get paid sometime this month). Where are these investors, by the way: the government, President Obama and the EU would like to hear from you?
The tenner or so a month for line rental, and smaller portion of broadband subs, that goes to the ring-fenced OpenReach goes how far, exactly: well I don't think I'd get too much as a customer of any of you for a tenner - but I'd love to be proved wrong!? So BT makes money where it can, not least in the (unregulated) Wholesale charges - which constrains IDNet's room for maneouvre. And don't forget, as always, the hogs are subsidised by the (majority) with more modest demands, so the bigger the customer base the greater the subsidy available. Sometimes it might just help to try and look at the bigger picture.
I know that we all like to think we are our own little island existing in our own little bubble at the centre of the universe revolving around us, like the advertisers constantly tell us; but sorry, we aren't. We're minnows in a big pond, and our tantrums don't matter one jot. We'll learn when (rather, if) we grow up.
But hey if we're really so knowledgeable and convinced, then why not set up an ISP - how hard can it be? ::)
How long have you got? ;D Nicely put. :thumb:
Indeed. :thumb:
Quote from: mervl on Sep 10, 2012, 09:32:17
But hey if we're really so knowledgeable and convinced, then why not set up an ISP - how hard can it be? ::)
I did actually look into this myself some time ago and the cost of renting what were then known as Centrals from BT (backhaul from the 20CN) gave me nightmares and then there was the cost of the routers to terminate them, housing the routers in a data centre....... it takes some serious capital to even kick off the process of building a network, which for the sort of service I'd want, would want to provide and most of the type of customers IDNet attracts would want, is the only way to do it properly rather than reselling a white label product.
As for the spirited defence of poor poor BT, they are not as poor as you may think.
Not poor, but they have huge costs as well as charges. The problem is that they have shareholders but we wouldn't want to go back to them being State-run.
What I've heard about Be intrigues me a bit. Apparently most of their exchanges are daisy chained and at least in the early days used BT's BES or WES service for the chain. So basically just a series of DSLAMs linked together with Ethernet cable(*). Makes you wonder what all the fuss is about :D
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/ethernetservices/backhaulextensionservices/bes.do
But our office is currently working with the landlord to have fibre installed to our site and it's scary how complicated that's becoming. In theory it's easy as well:
- Get BT to blow fibre down the existing ducting.
- Stick a head-end node in the landlord's garage.
- Run Cat5 to all the offices.
So far it's taken four months and we're still not there yet. The current stumbling block appears to be the ISP. We wanted the landlord to sign up then sub-rent capacity to us. He doesn't want to do that. That means we all have to find an ISP for ourselves. Our complication on
that is that our corporate IT department (who already run an international WAN) say that if we get fibre we ought to go MPLS but that's expensive and we're not sure the proposed setup will support it.
It's madness, I tells ya, madness.
:argh:
(*)Yeah,
virtual Ethernet cable :)
Have you had a look at one of the community BB suppliers such as these? http://www.gigaclear.com/ (http://www.gigaclear.com/)
I know they're aimed at domestic users in rural locations but effectively you *are* a community and, I believe you are in a rural or semi-rural situation so they might be interested.
Quote from: Tacitus on Sep 10, 2012, 12:29:50
Have you had a look at one of the community BB suppliers such as these? http://www.gigaclear.com/ (http://www.gigaclear.com/)
I know they're aimed at domestic users in rural locations but effectively you *are* a community and, I believe you are in a rural or semi-rural situation so they might be interested.
We haven't looked at one of those but although we're semi-rural it's only by about a mile and our exchange has been FTTC enabled. The physical side seems easy and quite cheap (apparently zero cost for blowing the fibre down existing ducting). It's actually finding someone to carry the data that's a bit of a pain at the moment :-/
The landlord is not very IT savvy either the solution he chooses depends to an extent on what we decide so there's a chicken-or-egg problem as well.
Quote from: Rik on Sep 10, 2012, 11:41:13
Not poor, but they have huge costs as well as charges. The problem is that they have shareholders but we wouldn't want to go back to them being State-run.
I'd agree on that but there is the alternative I'd mentioned before, that is Openreach being mutually owned by all the telcos/ISPs.
Openreach will never be truly independent until it is decoupled from BT Group.
I agree, but who pays BT for it?
Quote from: pctech on Sep 10, 2012, 13:17:27
I'd agree on that but there is the alternative I'd mentioned before, that is Openreach being mutually owned by all the telcos/ISPs.
And you really think that would work, in the light perhaps of the experience of the degree of co-operation exhibited between the mobile telcos on their roll-outs? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Three, T-Mobile then Orange are all working together, via a company formed for the consolidation of their networks, MBNL. Now O2 and Vodafone have signed a similar agreement.
Quote from: Glenn on Sep 10, 2012, 14:49:47
Three, T-Mobile then Orange are all working together, via a company formed for the consolidation of their networks, MBNL. Now O2 and Vodafone have signed a similar agreement.
True: remind me though how long it's taken to get to that stage from when their mobile services were first introduced; and why are 02 then threatening a legal challenge to EE's roll-out of 4G, and EE threatening a counter-challenge to the tendering? :swoon:
From Three's point of view, 4 years. I doubt O2 will be the only ones taking legal action, it sounds a bit underhand to allow EE to start LTE services before any licences have been sold.
The London Internet Exchange (LINX) works and it has that ownership model.
So does the London Network Access Point (LoNAP)
I agree, mutuality works if it's in the parties' commercial interests, which it clearly is with Linx (which doesn't connect directly to the multiple End Users which is where the competition is) and to a limited extent became once the 3G market matured (though it took a bit longer than 4 years, I think and an announcement isn't the same as integration and doesn't always benefit the End User with a better service). What I don't see is why the upheaval of a change of ownership for OpenReach, would make things any better for the End User (us) than the present regulated utility, nor any cheaper for ISPs. At least BT can at present use some of its ill-gotten gains* to subsidise OpenReach's roll-outs as things stand. :evil: Mind you it might discourage these pesky small ISPs from the market. (* Yes, I do think some of them are).
Would Sky and TT have supported fibre roll-outs that render their LLU potentially obselete; why should O2/BE support fibre roll-outs that loose them market share to their competitors? I might be wrong but I don't think Linx has that sort of issue?
Indeed LINX doesn't but this is something Ofcom should do.
O2/BE/Sky should be able to buy in if they want to.
Quote from: Bill on Sep 08, 2012, 19:50:14
IDNet also appear to charge for inward migration on FTTC:
If you already have broadband you can switch your connection to IDNet free of charge (excluding our Fibre broadband packages). (https://www.idnet.net/solutions/home/broadband/default-fibre.jsp)
(my italic, look on the "Why choose IDNet" tab)
but I can't find what the charge is.
If you click on more at the bottom of the packages you can see the charge. "Activation
We can connect you within 5 working days for a one-off connection fee of £96 including VAT."
Quote from: cavillas on Sep 11, 2012, 09:40:23
If you click on more at the bottom of the packages you can see the charge. "Activation
We can connect you within 5 working days for a one-off connection fee of £96 including VAT."
But as it is a transfer, the line has already been activated
Not much longer until the end of the month. My year is almost up, and I will be looking at packages with better caps. IDNet is not currently one of them!
Quote from: kerrso05 on Aug 28, 2012, 13:39:20
Simon
Thanks for the update....I take it when you say next month that is September 2012 which begins on Saturday?....surely you don't mean October?
Some of us have been waiting for such announcement for quite some time and are glad it is coming.....in my opinion it couldn't happen fast enough....lets hope I'm not disappointed.
I'm definitely beginning to think it was October he mean't......we'll not have to wait long now......just another 31 days :whistle:
These web designers are perfectionists you know Harry so won't put on the production servers until its perfect in terms of both form and function. ;D
Joking aside if they are to automate some processes like the phone line ordering the code has to be 100% correct as it interacts with outside systems like those at BT.
Quote from: pctech on Sep 22, 2012, 19:04:37
These web designers are perfectionists you know Harry so won't put on the production servers until its perfect in terms of both form and function. ;D
Joking aside if they are to automate some processes like the phone line ordering the code has to be 100% correct as it interacts with outside systems like those at BT.
It's not a joke, we are perfectionists but everything has bugs!
Like today, I spent 2 hours trying to work out why a ajax form submit I built was doing everything twice, I went through all the code line by line, commenting stuff out, re checking & then I noticed I've included the ajax code twice on the same page! :laugh:
:comp:
If the site is not ready then its not ready, but it'd be nice to know what packages & prices IDnet are going to have, will give us all something to look forward to and maybe stop some people leaving?
They won't say a thing till they are ready to launch, remember IDNET is a goldfish in a sea of sharks.
goldfish ? cheap and sh*t alot? :laugh:
They might prefer being called a neon or something, small & very colourful ;)
Quote"but it'd be nice to know what packages & prices IDnet are going to have, will give us all something to look forward to and maybe stop some people leaving?"
Exactly pctech................it would be nice to know but I suppose we only have another 40 odd days to go....don't have to wait all that long :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
If you detect a slight sarcastic tone in this posting......you could be right. :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
I think I have been quite patient but I think that is quickly running out. To be honest, I haven't a clue were I am going if I do move but I do know that from I started this thread back in MAY 2012 I have had to pay extra each month because no matter what I do to try and stop the overload (even staying up to 4 o'clock in the morning) we are still breaking the cap........so something has to be done.
At the moment I am so desperate I am even contemplating going over to the other side...........the dreaded BT Infinity............so I must be desperate if I am considering them. The main problem with them is that I gave them my mothers Broadband and they totally messed it up and then promised to give her compensation of £30 towards her first Bill. What did they do? No compensation and the Bill was horrendous £160.......she has never had a bill like it....but the problem appears that you pay for something in advance (which they conveniently forgot to tell us)...........Don't ask me what it was because I have forgotten
Oh I think I will just........... :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
Quote from: psp83 on Sep 22, 2012, 20:14:57
goldfish ? cheap and sh*t alot? :laugh:
They might prefer being called a neon or something, small & very colourful ;)
I keep some cherry shrimp at the moment. And a little snail (hard to pronounce/spell name, so I'll skip that). Might get some Cherry Bee shrimp next as they are striped, and look cooler. :P :laugh:
When I was at what was then called Middle School the caretaker used to have a tank in the main entrance hall.
Rather than going outside at breaks and lunch I often used to sit and watch it and talk to him about the fish when he was changing the water and feeding them.
He had all sorts in there, Zebra fish, think he had an Angel fish and my favourite ones, Neon Tetras with the bright strpe down the side.
I will someday buy a tank and build my own collection as I really find watching them relaxing.
Quote from: pctech on Sep 23, 2012, 18:40:13
When I was at what was then called Middle School the caretaker used to have a tank in the main entrance hall.
Rather than going outside at breaks and lunch I often used to sit and watch it and talk to him about the fish when he was changing the water and feeding them.
He had all sorts in there, Zebra fish, think he had an Angel fish and my favourite ones, Neon Tetras with the bright strpe down the side.
I will someday buy a tank and build my own collection as I really find watching them relaxing.
I used to share a house with a pet budgie. He was an idiot :D
I miss the little sod.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP1q5ierKVQ
Quote from: pctech on Sep 23, 2012, 18:40:13
When I was at what was then called Middle School the caretaker used to have a tank in the main entrance hall.
Rather than going outside at breaks and lunch I often used to sit and watch it and talk to him about the fish when he was changing the water and feeding them.
He had all sorts in there, Zebra fish, think he had an Angel fish and my favourite ones, Neon Tetras with the bright strpe down the side.
I will someday buy a tank and build my own collection as I really find watching them relaxing.
Currently my fish tank has Platies, Danios, Panda & Sterbai cat fish & rummynose's
After a stressful day infront the pc I normally sit and watch them for a good hour or so, very relaxing and sometimes funny to watch ;D
But I've had quite a few pets,
- Budgies
- Cockatiels
- Dwarf Hamsters (used to breed them)
- Guinea pigs
- Rabbits (Got one currently)
- Tarantulas (mexican red knee & chilean rose hair)
As you know, we'd been hoping to launch our new website this week but unforunately I don't think that it is going to be quite ready in time. I think that next week is looking more realistic. I know that some of you are keen to see our new packages so we apologise for delay.
Thanks for the update, Simon
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Sep 26, 2012, 15:04:19
As you know, we'd been hoping to launch our new website this week but unforunately I don't think that it is going to be quite ready in time. I think that next week is looking more realistic. I know that some of you are keen to see our new packages so we apologise for delay.
You should hire a web designer(s) / developer(s) that can stick to time scales, not hinting or anything ;)
only joking, I'm sure your team is good and I know what problems can suddenly pop up.
::) Quite frankly I find this "Will they won't they" game is becoming an (unappreciated) tease on IDNet's part. Fortunately it doesn't matter to me as I come no-where near to exceeding my present allowance and won't in the future either. But I do think it should debunk any myth that there's anything special on IDNet's part "deserving" of your loyalty. Just another ISP. IMO. There are better things to be getting on with.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Sep 26, 2012, 15:04:19
As you know, we'd been hoping to launch our new website this week but unforunately I don't think that it is going to be quite ready in time. I think that next week is looking more realistic. I know that some of you are keen to see our new packages so we apologise for delay.
Simon "As you know, we'd been hoping to launch our new website this week"......NO, I didn't know that, when did you tell us this news? or did some people like the Moderators get this news? what I did know was that you were going to announce new caps or packages after the Olympics which is over a month ago....which is very disappointing. Why can you not give your loyal customers even a hint at what the new packages are going to be? Surely it doesn't depend on a Web Designers brief to give us this news. The Web Design is only to advertise to those who will be potential customers information on the new packages, why not give your present customers the news first? so that we know whether or not we are staying or having to look for somewhere else.
For those that ridiculed me about how many days there are in a month, it now appears you are the ones that have egg on your faces because it looks like in Idnet terms a month is 36+ days.......and in case nobody understands that statement/quip ..........I'm being Sarcastic :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
I sure nobody is really interested in my plight but again I am straight through the cap barrier this month again and there is nothing I can do about it.......other than to wait for this announcement. :'( :'( :'(
Quote from: mervl on Sep 26, 2012, 23:16:20
::) Quite frankly I find this "Will they won't they" game is becoming an (unappreciated) tease on IDNet's part. Fortunately it doesn't matter to me as I come no-where near to exceeding my present allowance and won't in the future either. But I do think it should debunk any myth that there's anything special on IDNet's part "deserving" of your loyalty. Just another ISP. IMO. There are better things to be getting on with.
Mervl.......I totally agree. To me (who is having to live with the unfair caps) it is becoming an unappreciated tease...will they, wont they....when will they, when should they.......after the Olympics, no after the paralympics.......it has just got tedious to say the least.
Quote from: kerrso05 on Sep 26, 2012, 23:38:19
I sure nobody is really interested in my plight but again I am straight through the cap barrier this month again and there is nothing I can do about it.......other than to wait for this announcement. :'( :'( :'(
There IS something you can do about it.. when you've used 90% of your bandwidth, hide the router and keep the 10% left just for you :P
Yes, I suppose I could be really............ selfish..........or I could wear 8-) and think like some people on here "that the world is so bright that I need to wear shades" or that "everything that Idnet says is the Gospel"......but then again I'm a stupid person that thinks that most months have 30 or 31 days in them :-\ :'( :blush: :mad: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
Originally IDNet said September. On the basis it hadn't happen already in September we thought we knew it would be this week. Idnet have now said it is more likely to be next week - they haven't said next week is still September. Anyone who has ever worked in business will know that timetables can slip by a few days unexpectedly even near the end of the project.
I'm not sure why people say the caps are unfair. They are the caps agreed to when the service was taken out so if they are unfair why contract with Idnet. In any case, if you truely thought them to be unfair, wouldn't you ask for your mac code?
I'm also struggling to understand this "will they / won't they" conversation. It's very clear from Simon's post they are.
Quote from: Lance on Sep 27, 2012, 00:12:57
wouldn't you ask for your mac code?
No one knows how much bandwidth you are going to use, so once signed up to a FTTC connection you are stuck in a 12 month contract, unless you want to buy the contract out.
Then its a "up to" £100 migration fee to join another ISP, which also puts people off from changing.
Lance, I was going to reply to your comments but I'm not going to waste my time other than if you were reading and watching this thread carefully from when I opened it back in
May 2012 then you would see what me and Mervl's comments "becoming an (unappreciated) tease on IDNet's part" mean.
QuoteNo one knows how much bandwidth you are going to use, so once signed up to a FTTC connection you are stuck in a 12 month contract, unless you want to buy the contract out.
PSP83....I totally agree.
Oh and by the way what time did I post this comment at 1.34am.............way past bed time so that I can keep my usage to off-peak and that's the way it has been since early part of this year
Quote from: Lance on Sep 27, 2012, 00:12:57
I'm also struggling to understand this "will they / won't they" conversation. It's very clear from Simon's post they are.
I agree, if you don't see the relevance of customer perception to a business - and by customer I mean "end user". The trouble is, in my experience, that isn't the definition used by IT pros (perhaps they think it's what makes them a "pro"?). Amazingly, the only ones who seem to be learning this lesson (painfully, oh so painfully) are the big boys like the hated MS, and in the telecomms field, TT and BT.
It seems clear to me that IDNet jumped too hastily on the Fibre bandwagon, without a strategy in place to deal with this new market. The question is are they going to continue to flounder? Probably. :(
Quote from: mervl on Sep 27, 2012, 08:25:33
It seems clear to me that IDNet jumped too hastily on the Fibre bandwagon, without a strategy in place to deal with this new market. The question is are they going to continue to flounder? Probably. :(
I'm not sure that's fair. in IT Service Management there's a classic triangle (diagram enclosed) balancing risk/cost/performance and as the saying goes "choose any two".
I've mapped where I see the big boys and where I see IDNet. I have to say as a strategy that looks the best it can be because they can never compete in the same space.(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/38095501/photo.PNG).
You're right, I was being deliberately provocative. (Naughty, sorry). I have to say for me with IDNet's network and the local BT network both performing at their best, the service is just about perfect, and taking both the IDNet line rental/callplan and broadband into account, competitive on cost. But I've no issue with caps - I've better things to do than sit for long in front of a screen, and my brain gets easily bored! More importantly no-one else is eating my dinner.
Trouble, I think, is when anything goes wrong: OpenReach local loop and Wholesale PoPs (and supporting exchange+ network) seem to be a patchwork quilt of reliability - and IDNet are no better than any other intermediary (however hard they try) - not a criticism, BT properly have their own priorities; so in the end for a residential user it comes down to caps, basically, once you have the speed (EDIT latency and reliability too in most cases with OpenReach fibre-services, whoever the ISP) sorted out, which most people do with FTTC. (Different story for ADSL - which is why I call VDSL a new market). And the explosion in usage should not be a surprise - we have always been greedy animals after all!
Quote from: Anton on Sep 28, 2012, 11:47:17
I'm not sure that's fair. in IT Service Management there's a classic triangle (diagram enclosed) balancing risk/cost/performance and as the saying goes "choose any two".
Cool - is that the new IDNet web site?
:hehe:
Nooo!! The secret's out!! :bawl:
Let us hope that the fact that IDNet is dead is an indication of the new package announcements coming
Ukwiz no you were wrong ,it is back up and running and no new packages.....Same old caps :'( very disappointing....maybe it's October next year they mean......I suppose somebody is now going to tell me that October has 31 days in it
Oh come on Idnet what's the hold up?
I suppose that they will use this as an excuse to delay September until the 11th month of the year
Getting a website right takes time and issues can suddenly popup. I know this because I build them for a living so I'm just not saying this to backup IDnet.
The site will be live when IDnet are happy with it, at the end of the day the site will be taking orders etc that most likely is tied into other systems API's so it has to be right or they will lose out on business.
I am myself waiting for the new packages but fully understand IDnet wanting the site to be fully working before the public gets hands on with it.
Have you tried phoning IDnet and discussing your issues with Simon directly if its that important?
I can fullyunderstand Idnet's desire to get their new website right before releasing it but I don't really see why publishing information about new packages is dependent on it. If they are known then I would have thought they they could be shown on the existing web site. I can uderstand that creating a new website can be quite involved but modifying a page or two on an existing one with text data cannot be too difficult.
Or perhaps they want to launch the new packages as part of the new website?
As I said, try phoning and asking to speak to Simon and have a chat, he might give you a hint but he might not.
Quote from: psp83 on Oct 02, 2012, 13:20:45
Have you tried phoning IDnet and discussing your issues with Simon directly if its that important?
Yes, and the response is "we don't know what the new packages are going to be, but we should know by the end of the month"
As I am now within my notice period this is not helpful
??? Words fail me on this one. The only good thing is I haven't got comments like "how many days in September".....what I could say to them is "I told you so".......but that would be unkind.
The next shock is that it is going to be next month....November......idnet why not make it December?......that sounds like a nice month....ready for Christmas
Seriously, Idnet why can't you let us know what the packages are going to be? Surely that information doesn't effect your Web-site. I really don't think we that are on ftc are being treated fairly. :shake:
I really don't see any evidence that for the quality of service on VDSL2 (FTTC) it makes any difference which provider (ISP) you use - every bit of complaint I've read about has been with ADSL or "in the past". That's history. If IDNet's caps don't suit then go to a provider whose does. IDNet like any other business, will only change when enough people leave and it starts affecting their bottom line, and I'm guessing we're not in that position. It isn't loyalty to stay and pay over the odds when you don't have to, it's idiocy. I've been there, and it was a mistake.
Mervl my friend I don't mind you calling me an IDIOT..... LOL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
QuoteI really don't see any evidence that for the quality of service on VDSL2 (FTTC) it makes any difference which provider (ISP) you use - every bit of complaint I've read about has been with ADSL or "in the past".
I never thought of that but you are right I never really see any complaints about the quality of Service for FTTC.........so it doesn't matter what provider you go too with FTTC as long as the caps suit you..................I could just go to BT Infinity and download and upload till my hearts content but I was just hoping my favourite Internet Provider (IDNET) would at least try and raise the Caps but it seems they aren't really interested in loosing a couple of loyal customers in FTTC. It appears from the evidence provided that they are more interested in their Business Customers and Gamers that use ADSL.....I totally understand why that is .....but it's a pity
No matter what happens I still think that
IDNET are the Best Internet Provider in the UK.............especially when you get the speeds I get:-
(http://speedtest.net/result/2198877589.png)
Oops, must get that typing finger sorted - totally unintentional of course ;). I'm seriously envious though, my max attainable rate is stuck at 40.8Mbps, but given the history of our local (endlessly patched-up) network here in the soggy east, that's doing really well!
Quote from: mervl on Oct 02, 2012, 22:39:34
I really don't see any evidence that for the quality of service on VDSL2 (FTTC) it makes any difference which provider (ISP) you use - every bit of complaint I've read about has been with ADSL or "in the past". That's history. If IDNet's caps don't suit then go to a provider whose does. IDNet like any other business, will only change when enough people leave and it starts affecting their bottom line, and I'm guessing we're not in that position. It isn't loyalty to stay and pay over the odds when you don't have to, it's idiocy. I've been there, and it was a mistake.
This is why we like FTTC so much. Ever since the introduction of Rate-adaptive ADSL (i.e. ADSL Max) the end-user focus has been on the 'last mile' speed. Prior to that everyone was fairly pleased with the inital fixed-rate services as they were a huge jump from dial-up.
With FTTC the last-mile bottleneck has pretty much disappeared. This enables us to show just how we can differentiate our service from the cheap and cheerful service providers (who simply dump their traffic on an upstream network) by focussing on the global conectivity to the Internet that we work so hard on - the crucial piece of the network that we can actually influence.
We peer with over 500 other networks in London and Amsterdam in order to continually try to find the best routes to destinations. Coupled with mutilple resiliant routes through our own network, that can automatically self-heal around an equipment failure, means that we can really show how we are different.
ADSL packages http://www.idnet.net/data_products/adsl2plus.php
Fibre packages http://www.idnet.net/data_products/fttc.php
Still can't access anything on idnet.net/*
I've tried everything myself.. cleared cache, several browsers and computers, disconnected router, different DNS settings... still nothing.
Not getting any help in the other thread, my posts are just being ignored.
I believe Rik rebooted his router.
Cleared cache, flushed DNS, reset connection.
Done all that, just did another flush and its working on OpenDNS now but not IDnets own DNS
Are you using bookmarks, Paul?
I've got a funny feeling these caps are not what people wanted and IDnet will lose customers.
If I change to the new package in the same price range as my current one, it gives me 100GB to use anytime in one month.
My monthly usage has been around 112GB, so it will cost me extra each month.
So to be honest, it looks like I'll be leaving IDnet at the start of 2013.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 05, 2012, 16:43:04
Are you using bookmarks, Paul?
No, typing the address in. it's working on both now, I put in google's dns and then changed back to default and it started to load.
:thumb:
Quote from: psp83 on Oct 05, 2012, 16:44:40
I've got a funny feeling these caps are not what people wanted and IDnet will lose customers.
If I change to the new package in the same price range as my current one, it gives me 100GB to use anytime in one month.
My monthly usage has been around 112GB, so it will cost me extra each month.
So to be honest, it looks like I'll be leaving IDnet at the start of 2013.
I am not sure that IDNet will ever satisfy all its customers. The new package works for me but I see no mention of any pay in advance discount (ie; 12 months for the price of 11) or any discount if IDNet supplies both a BB and a telephone service. The packages/ cost look very similar to those offered by Zen. That's competition for you!
Edit: just been in contact with Support. Annual discounts will still be offered.
Quote from: Ardua on Oct 05, 2012, 16:55:49
I am not sure that IDNet will ever satisfy all its customers. The new package works for me but I see no mention of any pay in advance discount (ie; 12 months for the price of 11) or any discount if IDNet supplies both a BB and a telephone service. The packages/ cost look very similar to those offered by Zen. That's competition for you!
I know, that's why I've not really moaned about the packages they've offered or are offering now. I said at the start, I'll wait and see what the new packages are, if they don't meet my needs then I will leave for another ISP that does.
I just thought a 150GB package for £40 a month would be a nice option.
Quote from: psp83 on Oct 05, 2012, 17:01:51
I just thought a 150GB package for £40 a month would be a nice option.
Well, we do a 100GB package for £35 and a 200GB one for £45. Sorry we didn't hit your nail on its head but we really wanted to reduce the complexity of our price list and reduce the sheer number of packages.
Simon, should an existing FTTC user move to one of the new packages can you tell me whether that will affect their pre existing 12 month contract termination date or will a new 12 month period be entered into?
Quote from: Steve on Oct 05, 2012, 17:27:29
Simon, should an existing FTTC user move to one of the new packages can you tell me whether that will affect their pre existing 12 month contract termination date or will a new 12 month period be entered into?
Not a new contract, just a different price package.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Oct 05, 2012, 17:22:03
Well, we do a 100GB package for £35 and a 200GB one for £45. Sorry we didn't hit your nail on its head but we really wanted to reduce the complexity of our price list and reduce the sheer number of packages.
No hard feelings, as stated. You can't give everyone what they need.
I've got until Jan to see how things go, I will see what I use a month then and then decide to stay or leave.
Paul, I'm not sure if the 1 month discount still applies if you pay annually. If it does, then you can get the 200Gb package for an effective £41.25, very close to your target of £40 for 150Gb, but with an extra 50Gb/month free.
HOORAY at long last they are here :congrat4: :congrats3: :congrat4:
They have raised the Caps......which is great news and simplified them but I don't know whether or not they are high enough....only time will tell. It appears that mine has gone from 30Gb a month to 100Gbs....which on the face of it is an amazing jump but this now includes off-peak :( so now I have to see whether or not the rest of the house behaves themselves. The one good thing is that I don't have to wait till after 12 to download...........staying up till 2.00am to 3.00am was making me very irritable now I wont have to do that.
Does anyone know when these tariffs come in and do you have to apply for them or do you automatically move over the the nearest one?
This move is definitely a good one and has to be congratulated but as I have said before I don't know if it is enough of a raise for me to stay....I would probably would agree with PSP38's assessment of it is that it probably isn't raised enough to make me stay.....which is a shame. To be truthfull I think it is very near to what I needed to stay.....I'm guessing but I would say somewhere between 110 and 120GBs a month. It's early days yet and I probably need to try it for a month or two and then decide.
Thanks anyway
Harry, you have to request to move to the new packages
If you are looking for 'unlimited' I think your ISP choices are growing more limited by the day.
I'm pleased with the option to stay on the old package, which I hope is maintained. Otherwise it's nearly a 25% increase in price on the nearest equivalent package, which in my case is too high a price to pay for the convenience of losing peak restrictions (which frankly I wouldn't hit most months anyway - and I suspect that's the rub), when I'm trying to cut household expenditure not find ways to increase it for the same service! Just hope though my other utility suppliers don't catch on to the same trick!
EDIT: what happens to those of us on Anytime Light (residential) calls package and options: does it stay with the old packages line rental?
I've absolutely no criticism of IDNet's network which seems to have been nigh on 100% reliable and consistent over the last 15 months, let down a bit by the BT Wholesale PoP (which though :fingers: may have improved a bit recently) but the same can be said of my only comparitor, Easynet's network, used by my "old" fixed wireless service, though the VDSL suffers from the extra latency introduced over the local loop, and the fixed wireless from the sector contention! (But just in case anyone points out an easy way to cut household expenditure the fixed wireless subscription is £0, shhh!).
Well, I said I'd be happy with a simple 100GB cap and that's what they've provided, so I can't complain about that!
I hadn't reckoned on a 40% price hike though... need to sit in the corner with the calculator (and the crystal ball!) and have a good think.
Can't see any mention of the web/blog space etc, have I missed something?
Edit- never mind, I've just seen the thread about this.
See http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,29717.msg694951.html#new
Multiple posts crossing in the router ;D
Quote from: Bill on Oct 05, 2012, 18:03:43
Well, I said I'd be happy with a simple 100GB cap and that's what they've provided, so I can't complain about that!
I hadn't reckoned on a 40% price hike though... need to sit in the corner with the calculator (and the crystal ball!) and have a good think.
Can't see any mention of the web/blog space etc, have I missed something?
Edit- never mind, I've just seen the thread about this.
I think some content is missing at the mo just to get the site live, e.g. pay yearly for price of 11 months..
Simon said that will be added soon to the site, so I'm guessing other stuff is missing and will be added.
Quote from: psp83 on Oct 05, 2012, 18:09:15
I think some content is missing at the mo just to get the site live, e.g. pay yearly for price of 11 months..
I've never taken advantage of that- to me, the 1 month flexibility is worth more than the 8% discount. Even if I've never needed it.
Quote from: Bill on Oct 05, 2012, 18:15:15
I've never taken advantage of that- to me, the 1 month flexibility is worth more than the 8% discount. Even if I've never needed it.
Even if you choose to pay annually it does not lock you into a 12 month contract. If you leave mid-year then any fully-unused months will be refunded.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Oct 05, 2012, 18:17:35
Even if you choose to pay annually it does not lock you into a 12 month contract. If you leave mid-year then any fully-unused months will be refunded.
Didn't realise that, thanks Simon.
Theoretically you can still cancel and get a refund (AFAIK, I'm sure IDNet can confirm). It's just stumping up the cash in advance. Remember, no savings accounts will give you 8% return these days. Although that's assuming we have the savings. :P
[edit]
Ninja'd by Simon. He is a business manager and a Ninja!
I've decided to stay, and requested a move to the 100GB package as soon as it's convenient :)
Funny thing is, my usage for the last few months has dropped to the point where I could safely have dropped to a lower (old) package- for various reasons my intentions to do a lot more movie streaming etc didn't pan out as I expected.
But I still think it's likely to happen and 100GB should be plenty.
I've just recently signed upto Netflix so I'm waiting to end of the year to see how things go.
Then I will decide what to do next.
If you've selected standard quality you won't munch through the bandwidth that much.
I suppose my allowance and speed are an odd combo (76Mb/s 60GB allowance) but that option has just gone now. Shot down in flames, really :-\
For the same price I can have half the speed and half the allowance (but no more peak/off peak so more useful I suppose) or for 50% extra cost I can have the same speed and far higher allowance that I'm never going to get close to using (currently hovering around 7GB a month). Presumably there's no change while I'm still in a fixed contract but out of curiosity what is the policy for people coming out of contract? With my last ISP I just continued on a 'legacy' product and other than an inflationary adjustment nothing else changed.
Good question Andrue, I get the impression that initially the cost will remain the same, not forgetting that many customers are only on a 30 day contract unlike FTTC
Quote from: Steve on Oct 05, 2012, 19:37:57
Good question Andrue, I get the impression that initially the cost will remain the same, not forgetting that many customers are only on a 30 day contract unlike FTTC
The implication here (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,29121.msg694924.html#msg694924) is that you'll stay on a "legacy" package until you request a move to a new one.
Here we go Bill http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,29715.msg694843.html#msg694843
One other thing I forgot to mention. Are all FTTC packages really under the banner of 'Enterprise Broadband'? It seems to me that will put a lot of residential customers off. Do you think that's the intent?
:dunno:
Edit: And yes, I see Simon's comments about not changing packages. I thought that would probably be the case but good to know.
I have to admit, it doesn't seem abundantly clear where residential customers should look for their packages.
Looks to me as though its one product for all.
Quote from: pctech on Oct 05, 2012, 19:08:49
If you've selected standard quality you won't munch through the bandwidth that much.
Nothing is standard about me! :laugh:
HD all the way, no point in spending all that money on my HD tv otherwise ;D
Seems fair if IDNet provide Enterprise-quality broadband to market it as such - and presumably in a crowded market place full of bull, to attract the customers who appreciate it. (That might not always be the EU experience though).
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Jun 06, 2012, 17:15:24
Hi Harry
We'll certianly look at it again after the Olympics and maybe Euro2012.
I doubt that we'll change the hours though as they are specifically designed to ensure that gamers and evening SSH workers etc are not swamped by streaming and it also allows us to offer competition-beating, practically unlimited overnight allowances for those who are able to schedule their downloads.
BT have hinted that wholesale price changes mught be afoot for later in the summer - that would certainly let us increase the allowances.
The new FTTC Pro package will work well for me but yesterday's announcement has prompted me to look at what IDNet's competitors are now offering. One of the Which-recommended providers could provide me with 250GB Peak/Unlimited Off Peak, telephone rental and anytime calls for about £13 per month less than I am paying at the moment. I do not need 250GB but the cost differential is not insignificant. I just wonder, looking at Simon's comments above, why IDNet has now done away with the Off Peak bandwidth element? If I recall, this forum started with a simple request which was 'could the Off Peak start time be earlier in the evening' as per some other ISPs? I am not sure how the package changes sit with Simon's comments re swamping gamers and SSH workers?
As there are new threads discussing bandwidth, new packages and the new website, I think it's time to close this thread.