Quote from: Inactive on Jun 07, 2007, 08:36:39
A result...well done everyone.. ;)
Well, that's a good job! :) I am having a different boot problem. :(
I have two 160GB HDD.
A new Windows XP Home SP2 on a reformatted Drive(0) No partitions, "C".
A new Vista (business) on the primary partition of the other HDD Drive(1) "D".
Bios set to boot from Drive(0) "C"
Both O/S work without any problems.
My troubles are, on both warm and cold starts the first two 'post' screens show, but then it stops for up to SIX MINUTES before moving to the multi-boot screen.
Then it sometimes continues loading the chosen O/S without further problem, but sometimes I get just a blank screen, which no amount of clicking or keypressing will move on. Sometimes after the long delay it will move on, and other times I have to power off and start again.
I can't see anything that relates in the Bios. But that doesn't mean much to an untrained eye! I have disabled all the power-saving features in Vista, just in case. But no difference.
It's at times like this ............ >:D >:D
::)
Edit to tidy up!
A bit of a long shot Mo...I had a similar problem that I couldn't track down .. it transpired to be a Canon USB Printer that I left switched on all of the time, switch it off and bingo, no more start up problems.
Strange thing is, it doesn't do it with a Brother USB Printer.
Bloody computers..grrrrrrr
(http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/a032.gif)
Quote from: Inactive on Jun 08, 2007, 00:29:05
A bit of a long shot Mo...I had a similar problem that I couldn't track down .. it transpired to be a Canon USB Printer that I left switched on all of the time, switch it off and bingo, no more start up problems.
Strange thing is, it doesn't do it with a Brother USB Printer.
Bloody computers..grrrrrrr
(http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/a032.gif)
Thanks for the tip. I use a USB Epson Photo R300 also on when the computer is. It's worth a try, but it's too late to f**g about tonight, I will try tomorrow.
:)
BTW I just love your emote!! :laugh: Just about says it all really. ;)
What happens if you switch the bios to boot drive 1 Vista first?
What is displayed on the first two POST screens, Mo?
Quote from: DorsetBoy on Jun 08, 2007, 05:10:44
What happens if you switch the bios to boot drive 1 Vista first?
I tried most ( ::)) combinations DB. Same result. Even tried the XP
and Vista discs (both genuine :angel:).
Quote from: Rik on Jun 08, 2007, 08:03:10
What is displayed on the first two POST screens, Mo?
Usual Rik;
(1) NVRam check etc (tried normal and quick-boot).
(2) System information re' HDD etc.
:)
Quote from: Inactive on Jun 08, 2007, 00:29:05
A bit of a long shot Mo...I had a similar problem that I couldn't track down .. it transpired to be a Canon USB Printer that I left switched on all of the time, switch it off and bingo, no more start up problems.
Strange thing is, it doesn't do it with a Brother USB Printer.
Bloody computers..grrrrrrr
(http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/more/bigs/a032.gif)
Ding!! :o Give that man a teddy-bear!! :laugh: :laugh:
Almost spot-on Inactive.
Because of too-short cables I have been using a 4 port USB2 self-powered hub to connect an external DVD-Writer, and my Epson R300 printer. Also plugged in to it was a 4mb Flash Drive.
Following your thinking I first of all unplugged the hub complete with connections.
Did a cold-boot, and it almost went to the O/S choice menu directly. Could hardly see the first two screens as they flashed by! ;D From there loading was as normal. But everything feels faster.
Since then I have spent most of the day under/over the desk, re-routing cables.
I still need a USB extension lead to reach the printer. But now it's the only thing plugged in to the hub.
To summarise; it appears that despite being self-powered (Rated 3 amp IIRC) the hub couldn't cope, and the speed of the Bios post procedures slowed down as more peripherals were added.
As it is now, both post screens are showing for about 20 odd sec's.
I am sorry to have 'rambled on', but perhaps the foregoing will help someone else one day. ;)
So again ....... thanks Inactive for pointing me in the right direction.
A Karma is coming your way, and a pint, should we ever meet!! ;D
Thanks MO, so pleased it is ( almost ) sorted, just goes to show that sometimes knowing SFA about computers can be an advantage. ;D
Quote from: Inactive on Jun 08, 2007, 23:14:23
Thanks MO, so pleased it is ( almost ) sorted, just goes to show that sometimes knowing SFA about computers can be an advantage. ;D
Not at all it means you think about the simpler more basic approach and that is where we should all start.
Used to have a tutor for electrical engineering,Jock Richmond,broad Scots accent..."Don't guess,start at the plug and check all the way in!"
Quote from: DorsetBoy on Jun 09, 2007, 06:20:19
Jock Richmond,broad Scots accent..."Don't guess,start at the plug and check all the way in!"
Sound advice DB... ;)
For interest; I have just booted without the printer connected -- normal boot! ;D
I will get an extension lead and see if it changes with the printer connected directly to the 'puter.
While I am here I would just like to say to non forum members, my experience above shows the advantage gained from joining us (it's free to join too!! ;D).
Having good people like those above who helped me, ready to assist when necessary, has saved me hours of frustration. To say nothing of Riks support section, go take a look and see.
No-one here will talk you down for not knowing, we are all still learnng! ::)
Quote from: MoHux on Jun 09, 2007, 11:55:53
we are all still learnng! ::)
Exactly, Mo. :) We all have different areas of expertise, and the forum allows us to pool our knowledge, whereby the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts.
Quote from: MoHux on Jun 09, 2007, 11:55:53
For interest; I have just booted without the printer connected -- normal boot! ;D
Brilliant MO, mine will still not start up with the Canon Printer connected and switched on, as soon as I switch it off, it fires up immediately, yet it will with my Brother Printer connected and switched on, strange things computers.
Glad you are sorted. ;)
Quote from: Rik on Jun 09, 2007, 12:01:28
Exactly, Mo. :) We all have different areas of expertise, and the forum allows us to pool our knowledge, whereby the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts.
I wish I had said that ................... 8)
Quote from: Inactive on Jun 09, 2007, 12:08:25
Brilliant MO, mine will still not start up with the Canon Printer connected and switched on, as soon as I switch it off, it fires up immediately, yet it will with my Brother Printer connected and switched on, strange things computers.
Glad you are sorted. ;)
That's for sure! ::)
Thanks again m8 ;D
Quote from: MoHux on Jun 09, 2007, 12:13:21
I wish I had said that ................... 8)
:laugh:
Well, I gave you a karma if that helps any... ;)
Quote from: Inactive on Jun 09, 2007, 12:08:25
Brilliant MO, mine will still not start up with the Canon Printer connected and switched on, as soon as I switch it off, it fires up immediately, yet it will with my Brother Printer connected and switched on, strange things computers.
Does the Canon have a card reader built into it by any chance?
Quote from: Rik on Jun 09, 2007, 12:18:54
Does the Canon have a card reader built into it by any chance?
It does Rik, but so does the Brother.. ;D
How does the Canon report its reader to Windows, multiple or single drive letter(s)? How about the Brother? My HP multi-function is OK at boot (single drive), but my Canon, which allocates two drive letters, is not. I have a suspicion that it's something to do with the way the card reader initialises the USB bus.
It isn't a problem Rik, I hardly use the Canon these days to be honest, I much prefer the Brother, so the Canon is hardly ever switched on.
Thanks as always for your interest.. ;)
Pleasure. A good rule of thumb, in general, is to have as few USB devices live at boot time as possible. This from the man with four external USB HDs, a USB flash drive and four USB printers! To be fair, though, only two drives and two printers are live at boot. :)
Quote from: Rik on Jun 09, 2007, 12:37:21
Pleasure. A good rule of thumb, in general, is to have as few USB devices live at boot time as possible. This from the man with four external USB HDs, a USB flash drive and four USB printers! To be fair, though, only two drives and two printers are live at boot. :)
Fed directly, or via external hub(s) Rik?
:)
I have two HDs directly into the computer, Mo, with the flash drive, two powered hubs and one printer (the Dymo Labelwriter, which sulks if it's not connected directly. The remaining three printers come off one hub, the second is used for the two HDs which I use for a weekly backup then disconnect and remove, plus my Palm and iPod.
Thanks Rik. An interesting development this afternoon.
I bought my extension cable from a one-man PC shop on the edge of Dartmoor. The owner seemed to know his business, so I explained what had happened. Right away he said, "Your problem is not the printer, it's the Flash Drive! Being a bootable device it's causing your problems".
I couldn't ask him to elaborate as my wife was waiting, so I don't know how it interferes. My Bios is set to only boot from 3 devices and not look for others. Namely the HDD - CD - Floppy, in that order. Perhaps DB or Rob will know?
I haven't felt up to trial and error tests since we came home. Perhaps tomorrow. :timeout:
He may be right, Mo, see my 'sub conversation' with Inactive above. Some printers which have card readers get seen by the BIOS as a bootable device (ed Canon), while some do not (eg HP). I suspect it's a design issue.
I can't scroll back far enough to check, was the printer a multi-function? If it is, and you don't want to power it off when the computer is off, I would suggest connecting it via an easily accessible hub, and then simply disconnecting it until the computer has booted.
It is an Epson Photo R300, which does have a built in card reader, so that could well be the problem Rik..
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/epson_r300m.html
Thanks, Inactive. IIRC, Epson recommend direct connection to the PC, because of the card reader, though I never found that an issue if the printer was powered down at boot.
Just as a side issue, years ago I used to have numerous usb items plugged directly into the computer. At that time I started having overheating problems within the case. After much testing I found that the cause was the usb stuff which I assumed was drawing too much power through the motherboard.
During tests, just connecting 3 items, a printer, a scanner and a mouse/keyboard combo, raised the temp inside the case by 5 degrees C. Since then I have avoided usb as much as I can and if I can't then I use a powered hub.
No bearing on the subject at hand so sorry for being off topic.
Cheers
Tony
Nothing's off topic by now, Tony. :)
You raise a valid point. Wherever possible, I connect USB devices which are not self-powered to a powered hub for just the reasons you give. It's always seemed to me wise to avoid drawing any more power than I need to, especially given today's complex motherboards and graphics cards. The new machine has a combined floppy drive and card reader, and I was a bit surprised to notice that it was drawing the full 500mA. I'd have expected it to have been powered via the power connector, not the bus.
Strange indeed Rik, it would almost seem as if the card reader was a bolt on afterthought.
BTW completely off topic now but how do you get on with built in card readers ? I've tried a number over the years and non work for me as their supposed to, if they work at all that is. It might be the weird configuration I usually run my machines but I doubt it as other people I've talked to have found the same.
I now use a card adapter ( don't know the proper name of them ) but they are like a usb flash drive and the card just fits into the side of them. Never had any trouble since using them.
Hi Tony
Yes, it does 'feel' like they had made the floppy drive and then thought "Can we add something to this as sales are falling..."
This is the first machine I've had with a built-in card reader (other than laptop), and so far it's been fine. It seems more reliable than the separate card readers that I've used in the past, which have varied a lot in quality and reliability (often damaging cards due to poor design). I've never come across the kind of device you describe, probably because I haven't tried very hard. :)
My HP printer has a card reader - and it works great!
Mine too, Lance, but the Canon... :(
Quote from: MoHux on Jun 09, 2007, 12:13:21
I wish I had said that ................... 8)
Our Rik has a way with words 8)
Quote from: Inactive on Jun 10, 2007, 09:52:38
It is an Epson Photo R300, which does have a built in card reader, so that could well be the problem Rik..
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/epson_r300m.html
It could be so, Inactive.
But I have had the printer connected and 'on' when the PC is, for over two years without a hiccup!!
I have now spread the USB 'load', and removed the Flash Drive till needed.
Boot is now normal, with both 1st and second screens showing for about 20/10 seconds respectively, then moving on.
Thanks to all for your input, it's been interesting to read.
And thanks for the link to Steve's review Inactive. The most comprehensive and easy to read review I have ever seen. Book-marked!
;D
Quote from: MoHux on Jun 11, 2007, 22:31:12
Thanks to all for your input, it's been interesting to read.
And thanks for the link to Steve's review Inactive. The most comprehensive and easy to read review I have ever seen. Book-marked!
;D
They have a very useful Forum as well Mo .. ;)
Quote from: Jill on Jun 11, 2007, 21:21:27
Our Rik has a way with words 8)
Most people just say I have way too many words, Jill. ;)
Well I don't think so :)
:-*
Quote from: Inactive on Jun 11, 2007, 22:46:09
They have a very useful Forum as well Mo .. ;)
Thanks, I will take a look. :)