IDNetters Forums

Technical News & Discussion => IDNet Help => Topic started by: Joel on Dec 03, 2011, 14:46:55

Title: No connection
Post by: Joel on Dec 03, 2011, 14:46:55
just this minute lost connection to the www, reboot did nowt... any planned updates?  01273.... ta
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sat_mad on Dec 03, 2011, 14:51:28
Same here.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Reya on Dec 03, 2011, 14:52:50
Just lost connection here in Norfolk, too. Nothing on the Zen status page when I checked a minute ago, but that was right after I realised everything was kaput.

Hope I don't have to wait until Monday for someone at support to unstick a stuck session, like the last time this happened :-/
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: rgt247 on Dec 03, 2011, 14:53:35
On my phone now. I lost the internet as well. Router still thinks it connected but no web pages are loading.100% packet loss on think broadband ping graph.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: t22design on Dec 03, 2011, 14:54:11
My connection just disappeared also. (Mid Cheshire)

Rebooted all equipment to no avail.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: serenity on Dec 03, 2011, 14:55:36
Same here too, since about 14:30

Router states "chap authentication failed"

Located in Kent, reboot still the same
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: lozcart on Dec 03, 2011, 14:57:33
All ok here in Birmingham I'm on a BT line are any of you on LLU Idnet connection.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Joel on Dec 03, 2011, 14:59:22
ok well good it isn't just me, will maybe ring in a minute. second time this has happened in a month....
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: .Griff. on Dec 03, 2011, 14:59:39
Fine here on FTTC.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sat_mad on Dec 03, 2011, 15:00:18
No,  BT line.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: rgt247 on Dec 03, 2011, 15:01:55
I am on 8mb adls.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Reya on Dec 03, 2011, 15:02:55
 Does this mean I now have to do the housework I was procrastinating over? Booo  :(
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 15:06:18
Remove power from the router for about 30 minutes, this will allow the session to expire at IDNet and on BT's kit.

Then plug back in.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Aaron on Dec 03, 2011, 15:09:24
Down here as well for the last 20 mins or so, 8mb adsl. 01435 Horam
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: TimJ on Dec 03, 2011, 15:11:52
Lost connection here

Upton on Severn Worcestershire.

Chap authentication failure

Are IDNET aware? - status page says all OK
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: lozcart on Dec 03, 2011, 15:12:28
There is nothing on AAISP or Zen status pages so it is more likely an idnet issue. I'm on DSL4 and my connection is fine, maybe one of the other links has gone down.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Reya on Dec 03, 2011, 15:13:06
Quote from: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 15:06:18
Remove power from the router for about 30 minutes, this will allow the session to expire at IDNet and on BT's kit.

Then plug back in.



I switched the whole thing off and unplugged for a whole eight hours while at work last time. Support eventually had to log into my exchange to clear the session. That's the first time a session got stuck for me, though. Normally I just get back online without any problems.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 15:16:51
Worth giving a go anyway.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: scook94 on Dec 03, 2011, 15:28:59
Just got back home and we're down too. 01786 Stirling.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: MattBeale on Dec 03, 2011, 15:30:06
Not sure if its related, but I have a connection on FTTC up/down here in North Oxfordshire, but some sites are failing and redirecting to a CloudFlare DNS error page even though a manual DNS resolve works :dunno:

Oh and hi, I'm back with IDNet after my ... trip to O2.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: jrboden on Dec 03, 2011, 15:35:04
No connection here also Chester ADSL up green light on router but router won't connect phone line all UK gave raised call with idnet 1st line no help hadn't even read in here waiting on second line now ::)
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: wecpcs on Dec 03, 2011, 15:36:22
Me too in North Kent.  8Mb ADSL
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: woppy101 on Dec 03, 2011, 15:37:34
Same here im off northumberland 01661
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: keybored on Dec 03, 2011, 15:38:49
Same here Wiltshire; 01793  ???
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Jake-o on Dec 03, 2011, 15:44:49
Down here too. 01246, Chesterfield. 8MB ADSL.  :bawl:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: nowster on Dec 03, 2011, 15:48:37
Same here on Aberdaron (NW Wales) exchange (8Mbps ADSL). It looks like a backhaul fault to me.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Baz on Dec 03, 2011, 15:50:13
ok here    north east  :dunno:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: davej99 on Dec 03, 2011, 15:51:24
Down here in Perthshire. 20CN. First showed as stale session. Rebooted with sync but no PPOA connection/logon. I guess we need IDNET to take a look so we no not chase our tails.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 15:51:39
I'm down as well 01778 sync but no PPPOE  adslmax.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 15:52:43
There's nothing on the network status feed, so it could be a BT fault or a problem at IDNet. Both my lines, one BT, one Telefonica are fine, so in the first place I'd suggest powering routers down for 15-30 minutes to clear stale sessions. If that doesn't work, contact the out of hours service.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: lozcart on Dec 03, 2011, 15:52:57
It seems to be affecting customers on 8Mbps ADSL, has anyone on ADSL2 have a problem?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Maiku on Dec 03, 2011, 15:55:56
Down here - 01733 8mb adsl max.
Interestingly my ppp log shows me connected to Milton Keynes, I assume thats a BT endpoint or something.

Called out of hours support, 5 minute hold time, they are very much aware of it, says its a wide scale issue with lots of calls so far. Didnt bother with any details except a call back number and dsl line number so looks like they already got a long list of people.

Using mobile BB now, which is horrible slow. Worse than dialup.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:02:19
It's a BT 21CN node.

I've advised IDNet direct.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:07:27
OK, I've just heard back from IDNet, there's been a BT outage somewhere, they haven't had the fault report, but it's caused stale sessions, so go down the 15-30 minute power down route in the first place.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rudds on Dec 03, 2011, 16:15:30
Bloody hell just got in with a tip on a horse and couldn't get on my ladbrokes account ??? and guess what! yes it bloody well won sh*t :'(, thanks IDnet!!!

You may have guessed I'm off too here in South Leicestershire as well. Back on the good old mobile for now but its so slow hope its back on soon cause I got something to bid on ebay.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 16:18:06
You can't really blame IDNet for BT's problems.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: scook94 on Dec 03, 2011, 16:19:55
Just powered back on after having the router off for 20 mins. No joy. I'll try it again for longer.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:21:41
Call support, that should have been enough and I know they are having to reset some sessions manually.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: scook94 on Dec 03, 2011, 16:26:39
Thanks Rik, just about to drop Carol off at work so if it's still the same when I get back I'll give them a call!
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rudds on Dec 03, 2011, 16:27:17
Hi
Quote from: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:07:27
OK, I've just heard back from IDNet, there's been a BT outage somewhere, they haven't had the fault report, but it's caused stale sessions, so go down the 15-30 minute power down route in the first place.
Hi Rik, How are you mate?
My neighbour who's with BT says he has connection, Am I right in thinking that if it were a BT problem he would be down also or is that too logical in the technological world. ???

Paul
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 16:29:50
BT routing depends on whch ISP one uses.

BT Broadband routing is different to IDNet because the traffic is offloaded at their nearest point of presence which are dotted around the country.

IDNet's traffic is backhauled to a central location

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:32:22
I'm OK, thanks, Paul. As Mitch says, BT's retail routing is different to BT's wholesale routing plus, I get the sense that this may only be affecting people on ADSL (20CN) connections, not 21CN, but there's not enough information to be sure from the posts.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Joel on Dec 03, 2011, 16:37:32
doing the powe down test now, but past time no one rang back and the power down didn't work. phoned again and they reset the session. hopefully won't need that this time.
if it works ill post back.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Maiku on Dec 03, 2011, 16:39:41
Had modem off for 31 mins - still no joy, not had a call back either so may give them another call in a min.

edit
Support number is engaged lol. Must still be a lot of people calling.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rudds on Dec 03, 2011, 16:40:50
Thanks for that explanation guys makes sense now you point it out. :thumb:

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: davej99 on Dec 03, 2011, 16:43:10
Perhaps best not to reboot too much, till we know fault is clear, to avoid trashing profile One reboot should be sufficient to clear the stale session. I think router will keep trying to logon on after that, till successfull?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:43:51
Quote from: Joel on Dec 03, 2011, 16:37:32
doing the powe down test now, but past time no one rang back and the power down didn't work. phoned again and they reset the session. hopefully won't need that this time.
if it works ill post back.

The OOH support people are not meant to promise call backs, IDNet have had words with them. They pass the info to the on call IDNet technician, who concentrates on fixing the problems, not making calls.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:44:19
Quote from: davej99 on Dec 03, 2011, 16:43:10
Perhaps best not to reboot too much, till we know fault is clear, to avoid trashing profile One reboot should be sufficient to clear the stale session. I think router will keep trying to logon on after that, till successfull?

It should, Dave.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:44:47
Quote from: Maiku on Dec 03, 2011, 16:39:41
Had modem off for 31 mins - still no joy, not had a call back either so may give them another call in a min.

edit
Support number is engaged lol. Must still be a lot of people calling.

Try email.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sat_mad on Dec 03, 2011, 16:45:31
Status page has been updated finally to say some lines are down.  Presumably that means rebooting won't work?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:46:45
It does, unfortunately. It may mean a node failure. If I can get more info I'll post here.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Westy on Dec 03, 2011, 16:49:35
Quote from: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:21:41
Call support, that should have been enough and I know they are having to reset some sessions manually.
Ok well this puts me in a bit of a pickle! Do not have a phone attached to my line so I cannot call support. And I can't remember my IDnet website details to log in and send a request by email!

Any other way I can contact them? Like possibly leaving my number here and having one of you request it for me? And yes I already turned my router of for 30 mins.

Thanks!
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 16:50:48
Just a little word of warning folks.

When the problem is fixed BT's Broadband Remote Access Servers will have to process a backlog of authentication requests from routers trying to reconnect to various ISPs.

This can take a few hours so just let your router handle it.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 16:51:52
Quote from: Westy on Dec 03, 2011, 16:49:35
Ok well this puts me in a bit of a pickle! Do not have a phone attached to my line so I cannot call support. And I can't remember my IDnet website details to log in and send a request by email!

Any other way I can contact them? Like possibly leaving my number here and having one of you request it for me? And yes I already turned my router of for 30 mins.

Thanks!

Mobile?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lance on Dec 03, 2011, 16:52:19
No mobile phone to use? There is a geographical number you can use in addition to the 0800 number. Let us know if you need it. Email is support [ at ] idnet [dot] com but isn't likely to get a response anywhere near as soon as a phone call.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Westy on Dec 03, 2011, 16:53:59
On pay as you go with very little credit, and as a currently very poor person I would rather find another way of doing it!
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:55:07
I've just spoken to Simon Davies, it appears the problem is with BT's radius servers. Some people have no problems, others can't login. It's under investigation.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:56:05
Quote from: Westy on Dec 03, 2011, 16:53:59
On pay as you go with very little credit, and as a currently very poor person I would rather find another way of doing it!

I'll let support have your IP address.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 16:56:34
Sounds like an individual machine failure then.

BT not heard of VMware obviously.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: davej99 on Dec 03, 2011, 16:57:33
This is where the idea of a telephone message comes in handy so when folks call support they first get a message to say, "We are aware of a fault and are working on it. Check IDNET status page or IDNETTERS forum for updates." Though this does take a good bit of OOO kit to handle the calls.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:59:07
Which is what IDNet used to do before the OOH service was introduced, of course.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Aaron on Dec 03, 2011, 17:01:21
Turned off router for 35 mins, did not fix. Could you give my IP to support as well please to reset session, can't call as I'm deaf and typing an email on a phone is a pain, thanks
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:02:04
Will do, Aaron.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Ray on Dec 03, 2011, 17:02:22
Quote from: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 16:55:07
I've just spoken to Simon Davies, it appears the problem is with BT's radius servers. Some people have no problems, others can't login. It's under investigation.
That fits with what I'm seeing, Rik, username/password errors.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:04:54
I wonder if it's only 20CN connections?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: davej99 on Dec 03, 2011, 17:06:12
Quote from: Aaron on Dec 03, 2011, 17:01:21
Turned off router for 35 mins, did not fix. Could you give my IP to support as well please to reset session, can't call as I'm deaf and typing an email on a phone is a pain, thanks
Others will confirm, but if you reboot once to clear the stale session, your router should reconnect itself to the internet when the fault is clear.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:07:08
It's always worked for me, Dave.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 17:10:48
Is there any point in ringing support at present as the router power down doesn't restore the connection. Has anyone actually had their connection reestablished following a call to support? (Might as well save the pennies)
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 17:13:48
Looks like it could be affecting 21CN too or BT are rebalancing the sessions as my connection has just gone down and come back up about 5 times in as many minutes, am on another ISP for the record and using 8MB ADSL delivered over 21CN
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:15:03
Quote from: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 17:10:48
Is there any point in ringing support at present as the router power down doesn't restore the connection. Has anyone actually had their connection reestablished following a call to support? (Might as well save the pennies)

Joel, at reply #42, says a reset didn't work for him.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:15:53
Quote from: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 17:13:48
Looks like it could be affecting 21CN too or BT are rebalancing the sessions as my connection has just gone down and come back up about 5 times in as many minutes, am on another ISP for the record and using 8MB ADSL delivered over 21CN

Anything on Zen's site, Mitch. Nothing I could see on AAISP.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 17:18:24
Nothing, apart from Isle of Skye and Eglinton

http://status.zen.co.uk/broadband/
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 17:19:35
It does of course depend on whether BT have issued a general note to ISPs.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 17:20:15
Quote from: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:15:03
Joel, at reply #42, says a reset didn't work for him.

So we assume since he didn't come back he's still down
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Gary on Dec 03, 2011, 17:21:06
Back up here  :) after 3 hours outage
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:21:28
Quote from: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 17:19:35
It does of course depend on whether BT have issued a general note to ISPs.

Indeed. Thanks, Mitch. :thumb:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:21:49
Quote from: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 17:20:15
So we assume since he didn't come back he's still down

I guess so.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:22:08
Quote from: Gary on Dec 03, 2011, 17:21:06
Back up here  :) after 3 hours outage

Thanks, Gary.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Gary on Dec 03, 2011, 17:23:46
Pret
Quote from: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:22:08
Thanks, Gary.
a Tad slow at present though, Rik.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:24:31
The forum just went glacial too, which makes me wonder whether there's a flood of people logging back into IDNet.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sparkler on Dec 03, 2011, 17:24:48
im back online XD
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Ray on Dec 03, 2011, 17:25:17
Just come back up here as well, Rik. :fingers:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Gary on Dec 03, 2011, 17:26:35
That was probably the slow down I saw then, Rik.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Tacitus on Dec 03, 2011, 17:26:55
Back up here as well - I'm on Max.  I tried an earlier post from my iPhone but for some reason that's vanished.  Most likely O2 on a go-slow so it might appear by tomorrow morning.

At times like this it's very useful to have the WAP version of the forum, since loading times on my iPhone aren't too bad.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 17:27:56
Sounds encouraging. :fingers:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:28:57
My thinking indeed.  :fingers:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Joel on Dec 03, 2011, 17:29:05
Back up here, reboot didn't fix, but guess it connected with a good session.

An hours downtime? or just over? annoying really. Wish Idnet would issue an email afterwards explaining the cause. There must be many customers who don't know this exists and get a bit confused when it happens and they never get any explanation or reasoning why?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: zappaDPJ on Dec 03, 2011, 17:29:26
The forum is now dead slow for me as well.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Gary on Dec 03, 2011, 17:29:38
Quote from: Tacitus on Dec 03, 2011, 17:26:55
Back up here as well - I'm on Max.  I tried an earlier post from my iPhone but for some reason that's vanished.  Most likely O2 on a go-slow so it might appear by tomorrow morning.

At times like this it's very useful to have the WAP version of the forum, since loading times on my iPhone aren't too bad.

I am on O2, no issues connecting to idnet main site via my iphone  :dunno: may be an area thing.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:30:48
Quote from: Joel on Dec 03, 2011, 17:29:05
Back up here, reboot didn't fix, but guess it connected with a good session.

An hours downtime? or just over? annoying really. Wish Idnet would issue an email afterwards explaining the cause. There must be many customers who don't know this exists and get a bit confused when it happens and they never get any explanation or reasoning why?

They then get accused of spamming. It's a fine line to tread.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rudds on Dec 03, 2011, 17:31:46
Just let my router deal with it and hey presto its just come back on line here in South Leics.

Albeit a little slow though!

Thanks Rik

(http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/bimages/75805435.jpg) (http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk)
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:32:11
NP. :)
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sat_mad on Dec 03, 2011, 17:34:06
Yeay - finally back online, though I've dropped a profile in the process.

I guess I better catch up with the work that I haven't been able to do for the past 3 hours!  :-\
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 17:35:04
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/1627746150.png) (http://www.speedtest.net) :happy:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:35:12
Westy & Aaron - I've just had word from Simon at IDNet that your connections are both back up. :)
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: psp83 on Dec 03, 2011, 17:35:36
Just to let you know..

I'm on ADSL2 and only got a disconnection, it reconnected straight away with a better profile speed  ;D

Sat, 2011-12-03 14:31:24 - LCP down.
Sat, 2011-12-03 14:32:29 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2011-12-03 14:32:29 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2011-12-03 14:32:38 - CHAP authentication success
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:35:45
Quote from: sat_mad on Dec 03, 2011, 17:34:06
Yeay - finally back online, though I've dropped a profile in the process.

I guess I better catch up with the work that I haven't been able to do for the past 3 hours!  :-\

Sorry about that. :(
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:36:04
Quote from: psp83 on Dec 03, 2011, 17:35:36
Just to let you know..

I'm on ADSL2 and only got a disconnection, it reconnected straight away with a better profile speed  ;D

Sat, 2011-12-03 14:31:24 - LCP down.
Sat, 2011-12-03 14:32:29 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2011-12-03 14:32:29 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2011-12-03 14:32:38 - CHAP authentication success

QED. ;D
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Magic Foundry on Dec 03, 2011, 17:36:42
We've been off for about an hour (North Staffordshire), just came back on. Which is a shame, because I was just about to go down the pub to find out out what was wrong.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:37:19
I could fix that for you.  :evil:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sat_mad on Dec 03, 2011, 17:37:32
Quote from: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:35:45
Sorry about that. :(
Meh!  ;)
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: davej99 on Dec 03, 2011, 17:38:19
Back up at 17.20 with no intervention after first reboot.
Only seemed like 1.5 - 1.75 hours to me.
It would be interesting to hear about the cause, ie what did BT mess up this time.

Special thanks to Mods that were on line to help and keep us all in the picture.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:40:19
We weren't here for that, Dave, we had a poker school going in the back room. ;D
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: adamb on Dec 03, 2011, 17:41:17
Our connection just came back after nearly 4 hours of downtime (Suffolk). Not too chuffed as I was updating a website and half way through uploading a file when the connection died. So the site was broken for the last 3-4 hours :/ All fixed now thankfully. I have noticed that our connection has been a bit flakey over the last few days. It's normally rock solid so you do tend to notice. Wonder if it's related to this outage?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rudds on Dec 03, 2011, 17:41:35
Quote from: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:37:19
I could fix that for you.  :evil:
Nice one LOL
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:42:29
Quote from: adamb on Dec 03, 2011, 17:41:17
Our connection just came back after nearly 4 hours of downtime (Suffolk). Not too chuffed as I was updating a website and half way through uploading a file when the connection died. So the site was broken for the last 3-4 hours :/ All fixed now thankfully. I have noticed that our connection has been a bit flakey over the last few days. It's normally rock solid so you do tend to notice. Wonder if it's related to this outage?

It's possible, Adam, but this seems to have had a very specific cause.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:42:51
Quote from: Rudds on Dec 03, 2011, 17:41:35
Nice one LOL

;D We aim to please.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: davej99 on Dec 03, 2011, 17:43:06
Quote from: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:40:19
We weren't here for that, Dave, we had a poker school going in the back room. ;D
Can you get BT to try the poker, ideally white hot.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 17:44:02
Quote from: davej99 on Dec 03, 2011, 17:43:06
Can you get BT to try the poker, ideally white hot.

Where the sun doesn't shine. :angel:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:44:28
Quote from: davej99 on Dec 03, 2011, 17:43:06
Can you get BT to try the poker, ideally white hot.

If only. ;D
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: adamb on Dec 03, 2011, 17:48:06
Quote from: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:42:29
It's possible, Adam, but this seems to have had a very specific cause.

Ah ok. Thanks Rik. So who tripped over the wire this time?  :laugh:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:49:36
BT forgot to put the money in the meter for their radius servers. :)
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: scook94 on Dec 03, 2011, 17:50:49
Back up here too, had to reboot one more time though.  :thup:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Maiku on Dec 03, 2011, 17:52:11
Back here, think I dropped a profile too 7150 Kbps now, thats the second higest one on 8mb I think.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 17:53:38
It's the highest one under the old profile list, but BT have been experimenting with higher profiles lately, but we don't have a list.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 03, 2011, 18:36:34
I am not a happy bunny.  I phoned Idnet after the connection went down.  Support told me there was no outage and I came to the conclusion that Idnet had pulled the plug on me without contacting me.

I had recently changed my credit card company and forgot to update my account details so I phoned my son got him to go into my Idnet account and update new credit card details.

I then phoned accounts to let them know but was told by whoever it was that there was an outage which would appear their left hand doesn't know what their right hand is doing.

She didn't know if the outage affected my area and when I asked her to look into my account to see if I had been cut off she then told me that she wasn't accounts and that they had all gone home for the day.  She then said she would have the engineer phone me for an update.  I'm still waiting for the call.

When I told her I had pressed button 3 for accounts and she had answered saying she was accounts she had no explanation.

I fear my days at Idnet might be coming to an end as it isn't the service I once experienced. :rant2: :mad: :shake:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 18:40:18
There is no out of hours accounts support, Lona, I'll have a word with IDNet about the phone message.

We started documenting the outage here as soon as we could, and have been in direct contact with IDNet during the afternoon. If you're unable to access if the line is down, ie you have no mobile service, I'll give you my mobile number and you can call me.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Simon on Dec 03, 2011, 19:02:45
I'm pretty certain IDNet wouldn't simply disconnect someone without making every effort to contact them in the event of an account issue. 
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 19:04:47
I can confirm that, Simon, but forgot to cover the point - thanks.  :thumb:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 03, 2011, 19:12:49
I'm fortunate Rik, that both my kids have BB so if I can't get the one I can get the other.

I think what angered me was receiving conflicting statements from staff.  One said there was no outage and the other did.  Had I been told it was an outage from the beginning it would have saved me a lot of bother as I could have updated my card details when the connection came back on, as it was I got really annoyed to think Idnet could pull the plug on me.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sat_mad on Dec 03, 2011, 19:13:22
So did the outage affect other ISPs, or does BT have it in for IDNet?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 19:15:26
If it was a node failure it probably would affect quite a few who have similar routing through the BT network.

The routing information is known only to BT and the ISPs (and is probably the subject of a non disclosure agreement due to its sensitive nature) so we are unlikely to ever know.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 19:15:49
Quote from: Lona on Dec 03, 2011, 19:12:49
I think what angered me was receiving conflicting statements from staff.  One said there was no outage and the other did.  Had I been told it was an outage from the beginning it would have saved me a lot of bother as I could have updated my card details when the connection came back on, as it was I got really annoyed to think Idnet could pull the plug on me.

Unfortunately, the OOH calls are not always handled as well as they might be, eg they should never promise a call back, and they will often know of a problem after we've become aware here, at which point, we make sure IDNet know.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 19:16:32
It not beyonds of possibility that BT could lose an ISPs records from the authentication server.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 19:17:20
Quote from: sat_mad on Dec 03, 2011, 19:13:22
So did the outage affect other ISPs, or does BT have it in for IDNet?

We're not sure whether it was a software failure at the radius servers, which could have affected only IDNet or a few ISPs, or a hardware failure, which would have had a larger impact. ATM, I lean towards the former.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 19:17:51
Quote from: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 19:16:32
It not beyonds of possibility that BT could lose an ISPs records from the authentication server.

And we know this because they've done it to IDNet before.  >:(
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 03, 2011, 19:22:29
Quote from: Rik on Dec 03, 2011, 19:17:51
And we know this because they've done it to IDNet before.  >:(

It's quite ridiculous there are still single points of failure like this.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: jrboden on Dec 03, 2011, 19:27:03
All back up in Chester 01244 and I need to do a speed test after my download has completed but I am seeing a massssssssive increase in my download speed  :eek4: :thumb:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: dudwell on Dec 03, 2011, 19:38:05
When broadband goes down it's reassuring to be able to see that other IDNetters are having the same problem. At such times I used to reach this forum by (illegally but briefly) connecting via my 85 year old next door neighbour's unsecured wireless network but that's disappeared as she's abandoned attempts to become computer-capable. Next I took to reverting to dial-up but my new laptop doesn't have a modem – yes, I could (and might) buy an external USB modem for about £15. Then again I know there's a way to connect with a mobile phone but I'm very vague about it.

What I'm trying to say is: could someone produce an idiot's guide on ways to find out what's going on when there's a problem. Something that could be printed out and kept for when the need arises.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: jrboden on Dec 03, 2011, 19:50:14
Not blaming IDNET and can't complain first outage I have had in a very long time but will say the first line support on the phone as about much use as a chocolate fire guard !!! :dunno:

I had already been on this forum via my phone and was clear their were many users affected which I did state to the first line only to be read a script - "Have you disabled all your firewalls" "have you disabled all your Anti virus" "have you got ADSL filters on all your phones" apart from that they were not interested in the fact that I had been on here and it was clear their were problems.
once they completed their basic script they had no info you think they would monitor this forum as well it always looks bad when the customer knows more than the person you are ringing for help  :eyebrow:  :slap:

So what I am trying to say is they were no help what so ever I got all the help from you guys in here  :thumb:

Anyway just done a speed test -:

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/1627978532.png)

which is about the norm for me but I just down loaded 900mb in 20 mins which would have took over 2 hrs in the past - not complaining LOL  8-)
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: jrboden on Dec 03, 2011, 19:52:18
Quote from: dudwell on Dec 03, 2011, 19:38:05
When broadband goes down it's reassuring to be able to see that other IDNetters are having the same problem. At such times I used to reach this forum by (illegally but briefly) connecting via my 85 year old next door neighbour's unsecured wireless network but that's disappeared as she's abandoned attempts to become computer-capable. Next I took to reverting to dial-up but my new laptop doesn't have a modem – yes, I could (and might) buy an external USB modem for about £15. Then again I know there's a way to connect with a mobile phone but I'm very vague about it.

What I'm trying to say is: could someone produce an idiot's guide on ways to find out what's going on when there's a problem. Something that could be printed out and kept for when the need arises.


Your best using your mobile to view this forum that's what I did  :thumb:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 19:59:50
Dudwell if your phone has a browser, bookmark  http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?wap2 which is a simple low bandwidth version of the forum and tends to work in most populated areas of the country.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Simon on Dec 03, 2011, 20:00:24
IDNet are being forwarded feedback about out of hours support.  We hope that improvements will follow. 
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: BrianM on Dec 03, 2011, 20:33:01
Rang support after downtime of about 2 hours, got through to a Lisa I think it was, she said they were aware of the problem and tec's were working on it but couldn't give a fixture time. But thanks Lisa for being so pleasant.    :-*
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: dudwell on Dec 03, 2011, 20:52:40
Quote from: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 19:59:50
Dudwell if your phone has a browser, bookmark  http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?wap2 which is a simple low bandwidth version of the forum and tends to work in most populated areas of the country.

Aah yes, thank you, I recall I've struggled with this before. Trouble is, I've been quite unable to find how to input the / symbol. I'm sure I must be missing something extremely elementary :blush:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 21:01:04
If for instance your using a  basic Nokia phone. - menu>web>goto address then if / is required hit * and scroll through the options.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: dudwell on Dec 03, 2011, 21:25:11
Quote from: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 21:01:04
If for instance your using a  basic Nokia phone. - menu>web>goto address then if / is required hit * and scroll through the options.

Just discovered it! Requires lots of presses on 1 with my basic Samsung phone. Not shown in the "list of characters available" in the 168 page instruction manual. Must say I find text entry quite exhausting, must be a generation thing.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lance on Dec 03, 2011, 23:36:45
Actually I suspect it's the fact it's a basic phone which makes it exhausting. Many modern phones have touchscreen keyboards which present numerous symbols at the touch of a button.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Technical Ben on Dec 04, 2011, 00:20:19
Quote from: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 19:16:32
It not beyonds of possibility that BT could lose an ISPs records from the authentication server.
And don't we know it*!

:laugh:

I noticed the downtime just before I left the house. I was sure IDNet would get it up and running again ASAP. All back in order now. Great job.  :thumb:



*Exactly what happened last year!?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Terryphi on Dec 04, 2011, 07:05:32
Perhaps some lessons can be learnt from yesterday's outage? Clearly many customers were phoning Support and pointlessly joining a long queue. As soon as a widespread problem is identified the first menu on the phone line should have a message like "We are aware that there is an issue affecting customers' broadband connection. We are making every effort to resolve this as soon as possible."
Most of us would then wait patiently and not add to the harassment of the hard-working Support staff.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: talos on Dec 04, 2011, 07:53:37
Quote from: Terryphi on Dec 04, 2011, 07:05:32
Perhaps some lessons can be learnt from yesterday's outage? Clearly many customers were phoning Support and pointlessly joining a long queue. As soon as a widespread problem is identified the first menu on the phone line should have a message like "We are aware that there is an issue affecting customers' broadband connection. We are making every effort to resolve this as soon as possible."
Most of us would then wait patiently and not add to the harassment of the hard-working Support staff.

          I think that's a first class idea  :thumb: what does Idnet support think?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Gary on Dec 04, 2011, 08:28:19
Quote from: Technical Ben on Dec 04, 2011, 00:20:19
And don't we know it*!

:laugh:

I noticed the downtime just before I left the house. I was sure IDNet would get it up and running again ASAP. All back in order now. Great job.  :thumb:


If they didn't we would have problems, since they are a primarily a broadband supplier  :whistle: I feel the issue is still down to communication, even with the appearance of out of ours support, I feel not a huge amount has actually changed, the people yesterday were following what felt like a very basic script, and any deviation from that and they were lost, at least before a message would get though to someone like Simon pretty quickly. There was more information about how widespread the issue was on forum than from support for a fair while, that's not great support, and they don't monitor the forum it seems, which is the first place many come when issues arise. There are always lessons to be learned in life, but I keep getting a sense of Déjà vu when these events happen.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 04, 2011, 09:10:48
I am aware that the OOH support seems to be script based and indeed may not have access to IDNet current network's status, what I need to know so I don't waste my time is whether it just affects my connection or many others. Currently this forum is the most efficient method of determining that by looking at the number of members logged in, after that I know whether I've got to test my connection or leave well alone.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: mervl on Dec 04, 2011, 09:29:22
I didn't have any problem yesterday; but my FTTC troubleshooting for no connection is:
1. my modem, if flashing, it's local problem between me and exchange (rare so far);
2. access my f8lure recording (easier on mobile phone) or TBB monitoring through an alternative connection - if they're down and modem light OK then it's usually a network problem somewhere
3. check forum and status threads.

The problem I perceive is that if the issue is within BT's network but their reporting doesn't show it, how does anyone know apart from by collating customer reports (which is what the forum does)? As a manual job it's labour intensive and expensive, especially out of hours so volunteers are best (well done, lads!). And any reporting is going to be delayed (there was s status report at about 4.30pm yesterday).

Surely it's another bit of residential and SME services being best effort (what you get): that's what we pay for. When I was with mass market operators, my rule of thumb was that I had to allow at least 12 hours for things to be put right (or next working day, if later) so 3 hours or so at a weekend is PDG I reckon!  (:blush: I forgot to add patience to my necessary virtues in the other thread!)
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sat_mad on Dec 04, 2011, 09:39:32
Just to chip in... it would have been nice to see the status page updated a bit quicker too.

For the first two hours of the outage it said everything was fine, and just mentioned the problem from two weeks ago.

Today, it still says there's a problem long after it was fixed.

It kind of makes the page (and RSS feeds) pointless in my view.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Ardua on Dec 04, 2011, 09:43:28
A comment and a couple of questions.

Firstly, I think that IDNet needs to expand on what OOH Support is contracted, and able, to provide. I sense that they are nothing more than a 'call centre'.

Secondly, what do other niche ISPs do when things go wrong OOHs?  Comment is often made on this site of people checking the Zen and AAISP sites for more information.

Thirdly, IDNet has had a number of minor technical issues over the past few weeks. I am sure that they are all brilliant with their electronic screwdrivers but in the interests of good customer relations how about a more formal feedback process. The implication on this forum is that yesterday's issue was down to BT. Was it? I can find no reference to any other BT network outages which could account for what happened.



Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Simon on Dec 04, 2011, 10:42:51
It was a BT radius server outage.  I'm not sure if that would have affected other ISPs or not, but it was definitely BT, from what we have been told. 
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Tacitus on Dec 04, 2011, 10:45:02
Quote from: Ardua on Dec 04, 2011, 09:43:28
Firstly, I think that IDNet needs to expand on what OOH Support is contracted, and able, to provide. I sense that they are nothing more than a 'call centre'.

I agree but the first thing they should do is to regard this forum, not as an optional extra, but as part of their support team.  OK I think they provide free hosting but given the problems they've had in the 2/3 years I've been with them, they should be far more proactive in its use and not always leave it to Rik and the team to make the first move.

I'm not suggesting they take it over as a de facto part of iDNet, but far more interaction between support and the forum can only be a good thing.  Where the problem lies has never been clear, but IMHO iDNet seem clueless when it comes to marketing and communication opportunities - in particular the latter.  Same goes for their use of FaceBook and Twitter.  They really need to bring in a good marketing person or at least a decent consultant who could advise them on how best to improve communications.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 11:13:35
It's the team now, officially, Tac, I'm retired. ;)

The problem yesterday seems to have been that IDNet's monitoring couldn't see the failure, because a radius server issue simply means people can't log in - nothing falls over to sound an alarm. Consequently, the more people who can reach the forum and alert us, the quicker we can make contact with IDNet and alert them. As far as I can tell, the OOH support, which is fundamentally script-driven, don't have the same level of direct contact that we do.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Tacitus on Dec 04, 2011, 11:25:15
Quote from: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 11:13:35
It's the team now, officially, Tac, I'm retired. ;)

Hmmmm     ;D

Quote from: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 11:13:35
As far as I can tell, the OOH support, which is fundamentally script-driven, don't have the same level of direct contact that we do.

I think that needs revising.  OTOH if iDNet do that they will be besieged with calls which rather nullifies the point of having a call centre based system....
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Ardua on Dec 04, 2011, 11:29:02
Quote from: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 11:13:35
It's the team now, officially, Tac, I'm retired. ;)

The problem yesterday seems to have been that IDNet's monitoring couldn't see the failure, because a radius server issue simply means people can't log in - nothing falls over to sound an alarm. Consequently, the more people who can reach the forum and alert us, the quicker we can make contact with IDNet and alert them. As far as I can tell, the OOH support, which is fundamentally script-driven, don't have the same level of direct contact that we do.

Rik - the 'problem seems to have been'  and 'from what we have been told' are hardly definitive answers to an outage that has affected IDNet's customers. Other ISPs have status pages which show the individual issues; their status and what has been done to close them out. Not rocket science - just good company/customer communications.

As far as OOH's Support is concerned, IDNet has only itself to blame for the confusion. You will recall that in July, Miriam said:

Currently IDNet provide an Out of Hours messaging service for Customers to report faults outside of business hours. As you will appreciate, due to the very small amount of calls we receive during these times, it was not previously realistic to employ staff 24/7 on the chance one or two calls might come in.

However, many of our valued Customers voiced concern with the inability to actually speak to a member of the Support Team outside business hours. In today's increasingly 'on-line' society we understand that Customers can feel undervalued by some companies when they are constantly met with email only assistance and off-shore call centres. It is for this very reason that IDNet are committed to providing free UK based Support and in a further effort to maximise Customer Satisfaction we are pleased to announce the introduction of 24/7 Support.

As of 27th July 2011 you can contact IDNet Support for technical assistance at any time of the day or night on our usual free phone number 0800 331 7000.

It is not surprising that IDNet's customers are confused when they speak to IDNet Support OOH only to find that it is a 3rd party who may, or may not, have visibility of IDNet's network problems.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 11:32:36
Quote from: Tacitus on Dec 04, 2011, 11:25:15
I think that needs revising.  OTOH if iDNet do that they will be besieged with calls which rather nullifies the point of having a call centre based system....

Exactly. We try and get a good picture of what is happening before we make contact, and only if the problem is large-scale do we interrupt Simon or Tim's weekend. If we abused that privilege by attempting to intervene for individual members, it would soon disappear.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 12:04:05
Quote from: Ardua on Dec 04, 2011, 11:29:02
Rik - the 'problem seems to have been'  and 'from what we have been told' are hardly definitive answers to an outage that has affected IDNet's customers. Other ISPs have status pages which show the individual issues; their status and what has been done to close them out. Not rocket science - just good company/customer communications.

We are just customers, like you. We do our best to get information to members, and provide feedback from members to IDNet. My speculation is based on almost five years of working closely with IDNet, and having a reasonable idea of how their monitoring is set up. If you are unhappy with the level of communication from the company, I can only suggest you make direct contact. I'm certainly not prepared to chase the directors at a weekend to get the status page updated.

QuoteAs far as OOH's Support is concerned, IDNet has only itself to blame for the confusion. You will recall that in July, Miriam said:

Currently IDNet provide an Out of Hours messaging service for Customers to report faults outside of business hours. As you will appreciate, due to the very small amount of calls we receive during these times, it was not previously realistic to employ staff 24/7 on the chance one or two calls might come in.

However, many of our valued Customers voiced concern with the inability to actually speak to a member of the Support Team outside business hours. In today's increasingly 'on-line' society we understand that Customers can feel undervalued by some companies when they are constantly met with email only assistance and off-shore call centres. It is for this very reason that IDNet are committed to providing free UK based Support and in a further effort to maximise Customer Satisfaction we are pleased to announce the introduction of 24/7 Support.

As of 27th July 2011 you can contact IDNet Support for technical assistance at any time of the day or night on our usual free phone number 0800 331 7000.

It is not surprising that IDNet's customers are confused when they speak to IDNet Support OOH only to find that it is a 3rd party who may, or may not, have visibility of IDNet's network problems.

I agree that the wording of the announcement could have been better. However, in IDNet's defence, let me explain the background. First, customers complained that they couldn't talk to IDNet at the weekend or of an evening. IDNet can, in fact, do little to help anyone who is not paying for enhanced care during these hours anyway. It would be possible to employ an extra staff member or two to provide 24/7 support, but there would be a cost to the customer in doing so. The OOH support was, therefore contracted out to a UK call centre, who act as first line support. They have been provided with scripts to handle routine issues, but I confess that, when I tested the service when it was introduced, I was disappointed by the response. IDNet are aware of the issues, but I cannot tell you more without breaching confidentiality. If the OOH call centre cannot resolve the issue, they pass the call to IDNet in the same way as the old 'leave a message or email...' used to work.

Unfortunately, yesterday's problem, being outside the IDNet network, did not show on any of their systems monitoring, and it was only by the pattern revealed here that we were able to get an idea of what was going on. At that time, I contacted Simon Davies directly, rather than going through the normal channels. As I have already mentioned, this is something we only consider doing for major faults, as it's a privilege which can soon be removed if we abuse it - hence I'm not going to nag today on the status page.

As a group of volunteers, we do our best to act as a conduit between members and IDNet, in and out of office hours. We make sure they are aware of threads such as this, and we often take up issues on behalf of members where the member has difficulty contacting support for any reason, or where there appears to be a misunderstanding. We can do no more.

I've been with IDNet for five years plus now, and I'm staying put - I appreciate the level of service and the willingness to engage. Each of us, though, must make their own decision as to whether they are happy with the company.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: seaweasel on Dec 04, 2011, 12:11:39
Any news on whether BT have resolved this? Just tried turning modem off for about quarter of an hour and restarting it and router but still no luck.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 04, 2011, 12:14:50
Whats your set up? Are you using separate modem and router on adsl?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: seaweasel on Dec 04, 2011, 12:31:21
PEBKAC error Steve. Realised I had re-entered my password on the router when I initially started troubleshooting it yesterday - and I had an extra character in the password. Thanks anyway!
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 12:35:44
Phew. ;)
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Ardua on Dec 04, 2011, 12:42:52
Quote from: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 12:04:05
We are just customers, like you. We do our best to get information to members, and provide feedback from members to IDNet. My speculation is based on almost five years of working closely with IDNet, and having a reasonable idea of how their monitoring is set up. If you are unhappy with the level of communication from the company, I can only suggest you make direct contact. I'm certainly not prepared to chase the directors at a weekend to get the status page updated.

I agree that the wording of the announcement could have been better. However, in IDNet's defence, let me explain the background. First, customers complained that they couldn't talk to IDNet at the weekend or of an evening. IDNet can, in fact, do little to help anyone who is not paying for enhanced care during these hours anyway. It would be possible to employ an extra staff member or two to provide 24/7 support, but there would be a cost to the customer in doing so. The OOH support was, therefore contracted out to a UK call centre, who act as first line support. They have been provided with scripts to handle routine issues, but I confess that, when I tested the service when it was introduced, I was disappointed by the response. IDNet are aware of the issues, but I cannot tell you more without breaching confidentiality. If the OOH call centre cannot resolve the issue, they pass the call to IDNet in the same way as the old 'leave a message or email...' used to work.

Unfortunately, yesterday's problem, being outside the IDNet network, did not show on any of their systems monitoring, and it was only by the pattern revealed here that we were able to get an idea of what was going on. At that time, I contacted Simon Davies directly, rather than going through the normal channels. As I have already mentioned, this is something we only consider doing for major faults, as it's a privilege which can soon be removed if we abuse it - hence I'm not going to nag today on the status page.

As a group of volunteers, we do our best to act as a conduit between members and IDNet, in and out of office hours. We make sure they are aware of threads such as this, and we often take up issues on behalf of members where the member has difficulty contacting support for any reason, or where there appears to be a misunderstanding. We can do no more.

I've been with IDNet for five years plus now, and I'm staying put - I appreciate the level of service and the willingness to engage. Each of us, though, must make their own decision as to whether they are happy with the company.

Rik - in no way am I criticising you or the other volunteers who give freely of their time and expertise to help IDNet customers with issues. My point is this. IDNet could do more to help themselves. When it comes to communicating with their customers they are invariably on the back foot. You have given a very clear explanation of what customers can expect from OOH's support which is what IDNet should have done in  the first place.

Like you, I have been a content IDNet customer for over 5 years. If I was unhappy with the service in the round then I would take my business elsewhere. That said, IDNet should look at the various comments above as coming from 'critical friends' who want to improve IDNet's range of services - both for the benefit of the Company and its customers.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 12:47:36
I can tell you that threads like this are read and thought about, if not always replied directly to. Criticism of OOH support here and, I presume, directly, lead to the current arrangement. The results haven't been ideal, and it's being looked at again. IDNet are a company that tend to speak through their actions, rather than words. As a retired PR man, I know this is not ideal.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 13:49:36
Regarding OOH support, I am an upfront person and would rather they answered the phone stating that they are only there to take messages and not tell lies like the are support or accounts department.

I really don't like to be conned into thinking I am speaking to a department when all I'm talking to is a call centre worker with a script. It's a total waste of my time making two phonecalls when I was probably speaking to the same person twice.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sobranie on Dec 04, 2011, 13:50:40
I would be more than happy if IDNet would post a voice message on one dedicated contact number.
This number would advise any current problems, areas affected if applicable, estimated down times and any other info. which would obviate the necessity of bombarding the otoh fault lines.
jftr I would terminate my conversation if I was met by any script jockey and would prefer to await normal staff hours where I could discuss my prob with REAL PEOPLE. This I have done in the past and am pleased to report 100% satisfaction.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: mervl on Dec 04, 2011, 14:38:32
Am I really the only person on the forum who would be reluctant to pay double or more of my present subscription for the type of service people are asking for on here with a 24 hour troubleshooting service? If the BT and IDNets automated systems don't report (and if they do it comes through on the RSS feed) or you want quicker or additional reporting than they and the forum can provide - you need 24 hour staff (not a call centre) to get the information (let alone do anything about it), and you need to pay them full time rates, as you can't predict when a problem is going to appear. And pay BT whatever they charge for enhanced service too.

I'm sure there are SLA services out there at a cost, if that's what you need (but whether they'll be as accurate as you'd like is another matter).

The whole system is an ad hoc bolt on to an analogue telephone network being used for data transmission for which it was never designed, and it's seriously fault prone. The miracle seems to me to be that it all works as well as it does, and we should be grateful. But it's the fault of us customers IMHO that we want it all on the cheap.

PS But seriously, if it is time for a visit from the Christmas fairy, I'd like her to bring me £1 million please.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 04, 2011, 14:49:54
No I don't think you are, I want problems fixed in a reasonable time frame,rather than regular reminders that it's broken.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sobranie on Dec 04, 2011, 14:57:32
Quote//But it's the fault of us customers IMHO that we want it all on the cheap.//Unquote.

£24.99 pm does not strike me as particularly cheap IMHO.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lance on Dec 04, 2011, 15:12:09
Quote from: sobranie on Dec 04, 2011, 14:57:32
Quote//But it's the fault of us customers IMHO that we want it all on the cheap.//Unquote.

£24.99 pm does not strike me as particularly cheap IMHO.


I think the point was, though, that it is cheap compared to what would be required for a full 24/7 support by IDNet staff.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: mervl on Dec 04, 2011, 15:28:19
Don't forget the bigger point too, that for what the internet gives access to in terms of  information, entertainment and just everyday utility, to do anything else that keeps you and your family occupied for that length of time (or to get that sort of resource in the "real world") would, I suspect, cost more than £25 per month? And the cost of a fit for purpose C21 FTTP service throughout the country??
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 04, 2011, 15:36:21
If you really want round the clock resilience and for someone to start working on the problem as soon as you report it then you really should be looking at a leased line solution which comes with round the clock monitoring of your individual link, a dedicated phone number you can call if you need to and proactive notification via a phone message or e-mail when maintenance is going to affect your connection along with a financially backed service level agreement that covers downtime due to faults (not planned maintenance)

This is what most medium to large businesses have but they pay upwards of £100 a month for it (a conservative estimate).

I know this as I work in an organisation that uses such connections.

I'm sure if you were interested IDNet would be able to provide a quote for such a connection for you if you so wish.

I agree these outages are happening a little too often but bear in mind IDNet are just as much a customer of BT as you are of IDNet.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: davej99 on Dec 04, 2011, 15:43:51
I don't care for the term script monkeys. In most organisations almost all 24/7 first level support is provided by call centre staff trained to work from a basic troubleshooting workflow. It is naive to expect anything else for domestic services.

Because IDNET is a small well run enterprise, with comparatively low problem levels, it can utilise high level staff during working hours, but we have to accept the business judgement that this cannot be provided OOH, unless there are contractual agreements to the contrary.

Is there room for improvement? Can OOH support be improved upon by better troubleshooting workflows? Can escalation to high level IDNET tech support be triggerred when call patterns indicate systemic rather than user level problems? Should OOH support monitor the IDNetters forum? Can OOH support workflows include basic status updates and telephone messages to say, "There is a problem. Please do not adjust your set?" And so on.

Of course things can be done to make OOH support both technically effective and financially viable and I am content to let IDNET get on with it.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sobranie on Dec 04, 2011, 15:53:33
Surely my suggestion #160 would answer most OOH service.  I see absolutely no point in ringing OOH to be met with a Q and A session, the majority of which I would have checked beforehand.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: esh on Dec 04, 2011, 15:59:31
Here is usually the best place to come for info if there is a fault I find. Usually at the very least there's someone else confirming they have the same issue within minutes, sometimes you don't even have to wait that long. I usually consider phone support for the more serious issues that persist. It works for me, anyway.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Ardua on Dec 04, 2011, 17:08:28
I think, with respect, the point is being missed in this debate. In July, IDNet made this statement which was replicated on a number of BB forums:

     you can contact IDNet Support for technical assistance at any time of the day or night on our usual free phone number 0800 331 7000.

24/7 technical support therefore became an IDNet selling point. As individuals, we all have views on what technical support means. Personally, I took it to mean that the support that I would get at 3AM in the morning would be no less than I could expect at 3PM. Clearly, this is not the case.

I would never choose an ISP on the basis of whether it has 24/7 support. Indeed, I note that the often cited AAISP has limited support hours with the caveat that informal support may be available OOH. My point is that they are being very clear as to what forms part of their BB offer. All I seek is the same clarity from IDNet.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Tacitus on Dec 04, 2011, 17:12:51
Quote from: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 11:32:36
Exactly. We try and get a good picture of what is happening before we make contact, and only if the problem is large-scale do we interrupt Simon or Tim's weekend. If we abused that privilege by attempting to intervene for individual members, it would soon disappear.

I agree Rik and I wouldn't wish you to think for a moment that I am in any way criticising the help that you and the team give, it is one of the most valuable resources that iDNet have.  Neither am I particularly critical of iDNet and neither I nor my sister - also on iDNet - have never had any reason to think seriously about moving on.

It's just that when this sort of thing happens there seems to be a general air of confusion about where to go.  Like esh I've come to the conclusion that the WAP version of Netters should be the first port of call since, as you say, it is the place where any broad based problems can be identified and dealt with by the appropriate people. 

I don't really have any problem with the service I received from the call centre when Peter told me it was a problem with an authentication server which is pretty much what it turned out to be.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Simon on Dec 04, 2011, 17:20:34
I'm not sure there a point to be laboured re the OOH call centre.  Do any companies advertise that their call centres are offshore, for example?  It's the standard of support that matters, not where it comes from. 
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 17:21:09
Quote from: Tacitus on Dec 04, 2011, 17:12:51
I don't really have any problem with the service I received from the call centre when Peter told me it was a problem with an authentication server which is pretty much what it turned out to be.

You were lucky, Tac. :) Interestingly, no-one reported a problem over on ThinkBroadband, which might suggest that people know it's best to come here for info. If that's true, we can be much more effective.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sobranie on Dec 04, 2011, 17:24:40
Quote//Here is usually the best place to come for info if there is a fault I find. Usually at the very least there's someone else confirming they have the same issue within minutes, sometimes you don't even have to wait that long. I usually consider phone support for the more serious issues that persist. It works for me, anyway.//Unquote

Sorry, if I've no internet I'd find it rather difficult to visit these forums.!
I've no dial up modem, I'm a 24/7 carer so getting out entails a fair few problems, I do have a 'phone so WTH can't I just dial a number to find out what's going on or is it beyond the technological expertise of IDNet to place a message on a 'phone line.
Sorry to be showing signs of wear around the edges at this stage folks.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 17:30:33
The OOH number should be able to give you better answers, Rick, and we are feeding back information from this thread to IDNet, to help improve things. I'm happy to give you my phone number to check with if you want to.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lance on Dec 04, 2011, 17:55:40
Quote from: sobranie on Dec 04, 2011, 17:24:40


Sorry, if I've no internet I'd find it rather difficult to visit these forums.!


The suggest came about because these days many people have a secondry method to connect to the internet. Often this is using a smartphone or 3G dongle.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 17:57:38
Can I ask if it was all types of connections that were down or was it only adsl?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 17:59:44
We're not 100% sure, Lona, but it seems fibre, 21CN (ADSL2+) and, definitely, LLU connections were unaffected.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 18:00:54
That's just what I thought.  I read on another forum that when some isps start other services the Adsl customers suffer but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 18:02:21
The problem was in the BT network, Lona, so it just hit people connected to a particular part of that network, a while back, it would have hit everyone as we were all using the same service.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 18:05:29
Would 21CN be an improvement on Adsl and do Idnet do it?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Ardua on Dec 04, 2011, 18:08:37
Quote from: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 18:00:54
That's just what I thought.  I read on another forum that when some isps start other services the Adsl customers suffer but I could be wrong.

Lorna - no loss of ADSL2+ but my router log does show a loss of IPv6 but I suspect that the two are not linked! ADSL2+ is 21CN. You need to check whether your exchange is 21CN enabled.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 18:11:09
The reason I asked is that one Isp I looked at when I put in my phone number stated that they could offer me 21CN and I didn't know what it was.  On Idnet's website 21CN isn't mentioned.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 04, 2011, 18:11:19
Quote from: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 18:05:29
Would 21CN be an improvement on Adsl and do Idnet do it?

ADSL2+ is delivered over 21CN and so yes IDNet do it
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 04, 2011, 18:13:27
21CN is a programme started by BT to standardise their network systems as apparently there were over 10 different systems.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 18:18:56
Just been back into Idnet website and I am on adsl max. It says adsl2 should be available but I can't seem to upgrade.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 04, 2011, 18:21:24
Give support a call as there's a bit of a lag between the new kit being put in and when you can actually upgrade to ADSL 2+

Unless you get over 4 Meg you are prob better on ADSL Max anyway.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 04, 2011, 18:28:35
Quote from: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 18:18:56
Just been back into Idnet website and I am on adsl max. It says adsl2 should be available but I can't seem to upgrade.

This site is pretty up to date re availability http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25633&s_cid=con_ppc_maxus_vidZ59_Broadband&vendorid=Z59&sissr=1

Enter your phone's number in "Check your speed"

It will give you the possible options, if adsl2+ is available and you cannot upgrade via the customer portal email support at idnet dot com with your request.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 18:30:10
Though, in my case, I went from 3M to 4M, Mitch, so you can get lucky. IAC, making the move gains you the extra bandwidth allowance and, if the line isn't stable, it can be re-modulated back to Max, but retaining the allowance.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 18:36:07
Quote from: Steve on Dec 04, 2011, 18:28:35
This site is pretty up to date re availability http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25633&s_cid=con_ppc_maxus_vidZ59_Broadband&vendorid=Z59&sissr=1

Enter your phone's number in "Check your speed"

It will give you the possible options, if adsl2+ is available and you cannot upgrade via the customer portal email support at idnet dot com with your request.
Sorry, you're not currently able to get BT Infinity whatever the hell that is ;D
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 18:37:07
That's fibre, Lona.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 18:38:18
Quote from: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 18:37:07
That's fibre, Lona.

I thought that but BT didn't say anything about Adsl 2

I have sent a request to Idnet so will wait and see what they say
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 04, 2011, 18:40:09
 :fingers:

21CN seems more stable than in the early days, now, and could give you significant benefits.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 04, 2011, 18:43:17
Can you recall the max speed Lona from the BT site.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 18:55:51
Quote from: Steve on Dec 04, 2011, 18:43:17
Can you recall the max speed Lona from the BT site.

They could offer me BT total BB at an estimated speed of 8mb, same as I have at the moment with Idnet.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 18:56:51
Have a look at this from an other Isp

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 04, 2011, 19:02:54
According to this 21 CN adsl2+ should be available

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WSBEI
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lona on Dec 04, 2011, 19:06:48
Yes I had already looked at Samknows but I can honestly say llu is not available in Beith unless you go to Talk Talk.

I tried to join bethere and it couldn't offer me a connection.

I wonder why I can't upgrade on Idnet website. :dunno:

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 04, 2011, 19:11:48
The LLU services available are TalkTalk and Sky, I couldn't upgrade via the website recently either but an email to support solved the issue.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 04, 2011, 20:10:54
Seems to be a bit of a lag sometimes on all ISPs.


Title: Re: No connection
Post by: sobranie on Dec 05, 2011, 00:15:17
One last stab at my original suggestion of a 'phone messaage.
When the internet goes down I presume some poor sod at IDNet settles himself in for x number of hours fielding countless 'phone calls all rabbitting on about their failed connection. The message he gives will be 'It's BT again innit'!!!! and the punters will all drift off into the sunset happy as pigs in the proverbial.   :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: talos on Dec 05, 2011, 08:18:51
Quote from: sobranie on Dec 05, 2011, 00:15:17
One last stab at my original suggestion of a 'phone messaage.
When the internet goes down I presume some poor sod at IDNet settles himself in for x number of hours fielding countless 'phone calls all rabbitting on about their failed connection. The message he gives will be 'It's BT again innit'!!!! and the punters will all drift off into the sunset happy as pigs in the proverbial.   :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap:


    Seems a simple enough suggestion :)          I too look forward to a simple answer :eyebrow:
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Lance on Dec 05, 2011, 08:39:19
As has already been said, feedback is being passed to Support.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: mervl on Dec 05, 2011, 09:11:43
I don't want to prolong the agony, but last night showed a good example. BT's local Ilford mux had a problem at 1709, fixed just after 7.30pm, so when did the first BT fault notification reach my mailbox by the automated process, yes 20.09! I'm not sure how some poor IDNet staffer is supposed to know more about the current performance of BT's systems than BTs own systems reveal.

However, since we all want a miracle and to give us all something to do whilst t'internet is down, how about a seasonal challenge to find a way to turn water into wine?
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 05, 2011, 09:16:20
The first notification was #3, so I presume that the first and second ones went astray somewhere.

I can turn wine into slightly polluted water easily, never managed to reverse the trick without the aid of grapes and yeast. ;D
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: pctech on Dec 05, 2011, 09:18:14
From some of the responses in this thread though it does appear some people want the moon on a stick and are completely infallible and completely savage those who are not.

Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Ardua on Dec 05, 2011, 09:25:50
Most organisations welcome and pro-actively encourage customer feedback. That said, reading through this and other forums whenever IDNet support gets a mention it inevitably seems to trigger a defensive response. It is clear that the level of Support offered by IDNet OOHs is at best a friendly voice on the end of a telephone who may or may not know that IDNet's network has a problem. If that is the case, then IDNet should just say so: if it is not, then IDNet should state clearly what its customers can expect from its OOH technical support service given Miriam's July statement. Personally, I have no difficulty with no OOH's technical support other than knowing that there are network issues. However, what I did find odd a couple of weeks ago was talking to the OOH's technical support person and finding that after 30 secs I might just as well have been talking to myself!

The key question that most people want answered is 'it is just me or is this a network problem'? Simple solutions are often the best solutions and an answer phone message with 'Houston - we have a problem' followed by periodic estimated repair times would go a long way towards resolving OOH support concerns. Even getting an engaged tone would suggest to me that I am not alone in having a connectivity issue.

IDNet you run a good network, which like all networks has occasional issues. That said, the test of a good organisation is how issues are dealt with and how the problems and solutions are communicated to customers.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 05, 2011, 09:39:15
Perhaps Ardua you could address your concerns to IDNet themselves ie: support at idnet dot com . Whilst we can provide feedback on occassions to IDNet I feel  that this primarily should come from the customer themselves.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Ardua on Dec 05, 2011, 09:44:45
Quote from: Steve on Dec 05, 2011, 09:39:15
Perhaps Ardua you could address your concerns to IDNet themselves ie: support at idnet dot com . Whilst we can provide feedback on occassions to IDNet I feel  that this primarily should come from the customer themselves.

I am happy to do so; however, I am reluctant to post e-mail exchanges on a forum. As Simon-IDNet is a frequent visitor to this site I was rather hoping that he would respond and address the concerns expressed by myself and others
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Steve on Dec 05, 2011, 09:54:19
I agree,I would expect the contents of personal emails to remain private, but personnally if I have a grievance to air I go to the place where I'm most likely to get a response not the place where I can only hope I might get a response.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 05, 2011, 09:57:14
As Steve says, Ardua, ultimately, the forum is a user-to-user forum, not an official IDNet channel and, while we work closely with IDNet, we can't guarantee they will visit or read any particular threads - it depends on what they have on their plate at the time.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: davej99 on Dec 05, 2011, 10:25:43
Quote from: Rik on Dec 05, 2011, 09:57:14
....  the forum is a user-to-user forum, not an official IDNet channel and, while we work closely with IDNet, we can't guarantee they will visit or read any particular threads ....

An unofficial arrangement seems ideal. I take the view, and I can say this because I post very infrequently, that this forum contains excellent customer feedback that is high on usefull content and low on rant. It seems to me to be a rich vein of advice and counsel and one would be hard pressed to ignore it. We sometimes see IDNET folks participate, but it is prudent not to get sucked in too much. Never-the-less I feel sure IDNET pay more attention than it might seem. Certainly if it was my firm I would stay close and be thankfull.
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Ardua on Dec 05, 2011, 11:13:46
Time to draw a line under this particular issue as far as I am concerned. IDNetters is a valuable source of knowledge. Unlike some ISPs, IDNet does not have formal support forum such as can be found on the Aquiss, Zen, TalkTalk and BT sites. It does though link from its website to this one. Some ISPs do have an online support representative - some do not. Personally, I think in the interests of good communication and customer confidence it would be helpful if someone from the Company could provide feedback from time-to-time; for example, on 'what did cause this weekend's problems'?  The danger of not doing so is that some customers will just see all connectivity issues as an IDNet network resilience  problem; i.e., IDNet will be guilty by default. Remember, some of us who post here do not know our pings or trace routes from our elbows!
Title: Re: No connection
Post by: Rik on Dec 05, 2011, 12:17:52
I agree with you.  I think everyone has had their say on OOH support, the original problem is resolved, and there's little to be gained in continuing the thread.