here is mr problem again!!! lol
im looking for advice/reasurance
as every one knows i have been having a few problems with my BB!
quick recap,line starting off @3780 then droping to 2800 then back up to 3200 then dropping again to 2500.
i went home for lunch today and my line is synced @2070(now i have have a rock solid stable 3200sync for the last 18-24 months).
i have phoned up idnet today and they have said that phone lines degrage over time so my line might not support 3200kbps now,now the thing im concerned about is im getting no errors/very few on the line and then all of a sudden im getting a burst of 2000crc errors and 10000fec over a few minutes which is dropping the connection
what does that sound like to everyone?
(i have got no problem bt comming out because i have tried everything on my end and am sure its nothing i can rectify)
many thanks
woppy
Am I right in thinking you're still in a training period? If so, you really need to wait until that is over, and see if things stabilise then. If not, apologies, and please ignore comment. :)
I think woppy is only about 3 days into the training period now?!? Far too early to speculate on anything yet.
That's what I thought.
sorry yes i am in the training period,the thing thats worrying is the downward trend of the stats because the way i understand it is on monday the line isnt suddenly going to jump up from 2070kbps to say 2500-3000kbps
A downward trend is the norm. During the training period, DLM will start by trying to run the line as fast as possible. Over the next 10 days, it watches for instability and adjusts parameters to try and stabilise any it spots. The parameters used are interleaving, off/on and then depth, and target noise margin, increasing in steps of 3db, each of which cost about 5-700kbps. At the end of the training period, it sets the Maximum Stable Rate and the Fault Threshold Rate. The latter is the important one as it determines when BT consider there is a fault on the line.
Is the engineer coming out a voice or BB engineer? If the former, it would pay you to disconnect the router before and during his visit.
Quote from: Rik on Sep 27, 2011, 16:03:12
A downward trend is the norm. During the training period, DLM will start by trying to run the line as fast as possible. Over the next 10 days, it watches for instability and adjusts parameters to try and stabilise any it spots. The parameters used are interleaving, off/on and then depth, and target noise margin, increasing in steps of 3db, each of which cost about 5-700kbps. At the end of the training period, it sets the Maximum Stable Rate and the Fault Threshold Rate. The latter is the important one as it determines when BT consider there is a fault on the line.
Is the engineer coming out a voice or BB engineer? If the former, it would pay you to disconnect the router before and during his visit.
an engineer hasnt been booked yet im going to wait till monday and see what the line stats
Sorry, misread your post. :blush:
Well there is another re-sync now down to 2033, I might just ask to put onto a fixed 2mb profile
Quote from: woppy101 on Sep 27, 2011, 19:25:20
Well there is another re-sync now down to 2033, I might just ask to put onto a fixed 2mb profile
Wait for the training period to pass before doing anything, dont panic so much as well, the line will go up and down for a while yet, once its over then decide on what you want to do.
I have now jumped up to 3300Kbps and am sure at around 5pm-6pm this afternoon it will re-sync back down to 2100Kbps(the thing that's really annoying is because I'm on up-to 8mb my ip profile is now stuck for up to three days)
The odd thing on this mornings re-sync is on my 2700hgv is it normally says ERR_SIG_INTRUP but this morning it says RETRAIN_HIGHER
That didn't last long 15 minutes later a re-sync down to 2336kbps you can not tell me this is normal behaviour during the training period,
here are all the stats from my 2700
2011/09/27 07:55:23 BST 1 2624 2632 3068 3068 9.1 9.0 58.0 17.3 914 3281 1.41 8.00 448 880 19.0 31.5 12.2 23 33 G.DMT Annex A TI 230/105 ERR_SIG_INTERRUPT -18.2 -2.3 33.7 47
2011/09/27 11:19:03 BST 1 2048 2056 2636 2636 9.1 14.0 58.0 17.3 0 916 1.75 8.00 448 884 19.0 31.5 12.2 22 22 G.DMT Annex A TI 230/105 IDLE_REQUEST -14.2 2.4 33.7 0
2011/09/27 19:07:07 BST 1 2784 2784 3200 3200 9.0 10.0 58.0 17.5 823 2627 1.33 8.00 448 868 19.0 31.5 12.2 57 78 G.DMT Annex A TI 230/105 ERR_SIG_INTERRUPT -17.8 2.2 33.7 38
2011/09/28 07:02:58 BST 1 2112 2132 2976 2976 9.2 16.0 58.0 17.2 32 1327 1.71 8.00 448 888 19.0 31.5 12.2 9 18 G.DMT Annex A TI 230/105 RETRAIN_HIGHER -16.2 2.5 33.7 0
2011/09/28 08:06:35 BST 1 3360 3416 3348 3348 9.3 9.0 58.0 17.7 977 1609 1.12 8.00 448 864 19.0 31.5 12.2 33 50 G.DMT Annex A TI 230/105 ERR_SIG_INTERRUPT -18.3 1.8 33.7 0
2011/09/28 08:13:02 BST 1 2336 2376 2768 2768 9.4 12.0 58.0 17.4 18 2326 1.56 8.00 448 876 19.0 31.5 12.2 0 0 G.DMT Annex A TI 229/103 N/A -17.2 2.0 33.7 0
Actually, it looks quite normal. Please just leave it alone until the end of the training period. Any data, error messages etc are meaningless until then, and re-booting the router is inadvisable.
It would also be advisable not to start any more threads on this issue, as this makes it harder to find relevant information later on, if it's required.
Now down to 1856kbps so down to a 1.5mb ip profile this is now becoming a joke how can a line be unstable at 3mb,2.5mb,2mb,1.75mb I now have a 15db snr, yet I can still get a 2mb fixed profile
At this point, I don't have an answer, and BT won't give IDNet one. You really will have to wait out the 10 days.
I'm considering getting my other line connected up and hoping that one is better than this one,considering next door and the two houses across the road which are on the same pole as me(which is also the closest pole to the green box)get 3100kbps, 3400kbps and 4120kbps.
It may work. I have two lines, one yields 3.5M the other 2M. Both have the same attenuation. Wiring here is all underground, and the distribution point is in my meter cupboard. My neighbours range from 512k to 4M, but we're all on the same cable from here to the cabinet, 213m. After that, it's anyone's guess which cable and which route is used.
I was talking to the bt engineer who was part of the team that renewed all the lines on camp two years ago and my line travels from my house to the pole (20m) and then from the pole underground to the green cabinet (80m) and then back to the exchange(4100m-4200m)
Both lines, or the one you're thinking about swapping to?
Both lines well the one I might switch too is around 5m shorter in length
Quotei have phoned up idnet today and they have said that phone lines degrage over time
Line Degredation! This is becoming too much of a cop out by both idnet and BT.
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,26708.0.html (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,26708.0.html)
I eventually left my router and line well alone. 6 weeks later after another bout of line problems over a Sat night/Sun morning, my line has mysteriously come back to normal and I'm synching at over 4Mbs.
Line degredation my a**. Someone playing at fixing things more like it and no transparancy to the ISP.
How come when I spoke to idnet they said I had a noise margin of 9db yet my router is telling me my noise margin is now at 18db (was at 16db when I spoke to them)
When my training!!! period is over will the 2-3 disconects I get every day stop?(if they don't stop where do I go from there, it does it on every router I have got so it can't be the router)I'm getting a bit annoyed with idnet saying "yeah well bt say your line can only get 1.5mb and that's what your getting so we don't see a problem"
Quote from: sparky on Sep 28, 2011, 19:23:02
Line Degredation! This is becoming too much of a cop out by both idnet and BT.
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,26708.0.html (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,26708.0.html)
Line degredation my a**. Someone playing at fixing things more like it and no transparency to the ISP.
The ISP has had most of its tools to check the line taken away, they do their best...
Quote from: woppy101 on Sep 29, 2011, 07:07:44
How come when I spoke to idnet they said I had a noise margin of 9db yet my router is telling me my noise margin is now at 18db (was at 16db when I spoke to them)
When my training!!! period is over will the 2-3 disconects I get every day stop?(if they don't stop where do I go from there, it does it on every router I have got so it can't be the router)I'm getting a bit annoyed with idnet saying "yeah well bt say your line can only get 1.5mb and that's what your getting so we don't see a problem"
This has been explained to you, you are in a training period, BT uses DLM to stabilise your line, it is their equipment that decides what your line will be like after the ten day training period. IDNet are telling you what your line should be capable of, what happens in reality can vary a great deal, and since you are still in training you need to wait to its over, that simple, no one can help you, and if you muck about with your router say by turning it off and on alot that wont help. Wait and see what happens. There is no point to keep contacting IDNet till this period is over or posting until you know the final results. I dont want to sound harsh but that's the bottom line here.
QuoteThe ISP has had most of its tools to check the line taken away, they do their best...
Gary, Yes, I accept this and understand. I am not blaming idnet or any other ISP for this excuse, but it does seem to be an easy "get out" when they have no means of doing or saying anything other than what BT tell them.
Perhaps this is all a game by BT to p*** *** non BT ISP users enough to get them to abandon their current ISP and revert back to BT ??? if you see what I mean........ :whistle:
I don't understand why enough of these ISP's don't "gang" up on BT or go to Offcom to get their tools back and be more able to satisfy their customers. After all, the ISP is BT's customer. We are the customer of our ISP.
Indeed, but BT seems to have Ofcom's blessing to do much as it pleases, unfortunately. :(
Quote from: Gary on Sep 29, 2011, 07:45:47
This has been explained to you, you are in a training period, BT uses DLM to stabilise your line, it is their equipment that decides what your line will be like after the ten day training period. IDNet are telling you what your line should be capable of, what happens in reality can vary a great deal, and since you are still in training you need to wait to its over, that simple, no one can help you, and if you muck about with your router say by turning it off and on alot that wont help. Wait and see what happens. There is no point to keep contacting IDNet till this period is over or posting until you know the final results. I dont want to sound harsh but that's the bottom line here.
Yes i understand that but that last time i went through a training period i dont remember this many re-syncs,im now on day eight and i had four re-syncs yesterday and one again this morning(which idnet dont seem to be seeing when i spoke to them on tuesday they said they havent seen a disconnnect since sunday).I know its a ten day period but from what i have read 99% of lines have been set by days 5-7(i have not touched the router since i put the 2700hgv back on on sunday)
Regardless of whether there is or isn't a fault, BT won't do anything until after the 10 days.
Quote from: woppy101 on Sep 30, 2011, 09:05:28
Yes i understand that but that last time i went through a training period i dont remember this many re-syncs,im now on day eight and i had four re-syncs yesterday and one again this morning(which idnet dont seem to be seeing when i spoke to them on tuesday they said they havent seen a disconnnect since sunday).I know its a ten day period but from what i have read 99% of lines have been set by days 5-7(i have not touched the router since i put the 2700hgv back on on sunday)
You should have left it as it was tbh, then change the router afterwards really. Leave it alone. Calling idnet about this during training won't help, they cant do a thing. Just because last time you dont remember so many re-syncs mean nothing, things change, noise around you changes, the line itself degrades or can get damaged, and as pointed out more than once now, no matter what you want to happen and no matter how much you want that to be now, you need to wait the full ten days!
Quote from: Gary on Sep 30, 2011, 11:54:57
You should have left it as it was tbh, then change the router afterwards really. Leave it alone. Calling idnet about this during training won't help, they cant do a thing. Just because last time you dont remember so many re-syncs mean nothing, things change, noise around you changes, the line itself degrades or can get damaged, and as pointed out more than once now, no matter what you want to happen and no matter how much you want that to be now, you need to wait the full ten days!
I'm sorry but a brand new line does not degrade by half its speed two years after it was installed(and yes I know I have to wait the full ten days I was just pointing out that 99% of lines are set between 5 and 7 days)
Quote from: woppy101 on Sep 30, 2011, 13:32:28
I'm sorry but a brand new line does not degrade by half its speed two years after it was installed(and yes I know I have to wait the full ten days I was just pointing out that 99% of lines are set between 5 and 7 days)
How do yo know, have you checked? It has snowed, been freezing we had lots of rain strong winds, it could have water damage in a box somewhere if its underground it could have a leak in a joint, loads of things could happen in two years. You dont know your line is ok unless an engineer checks it, and tbh it could be an issue in your own home. No one can help you any further until training is finished. ::)
It's quite possible for the green boxes to get flooded, as we had one do so in my locality.
Quote from: Simon on Sep 30, 2011, 14:37:17
It's quite possible for the green boxes to get flooded, as we had one do so in my locality.
Our green cabinet is raised off the floor by around 8 inches(I don't think it can get flooded) the green cabinet was only installed two years ago before that everything was routed through an old command bunker,i understand what you are saying about things getting damaged but everything back to the exchange is brand new,pity if the gits had waited for two years it would have most likely been fiber that was put in
Quick question,as I said in another post I have the option to change to a second phone line in my house, the line that I can change to is around 8m shorter than the one I have now will that make much of a difference to my line speed of will it most likely be negligible?
Neglible.
I think I might just get it connected anyway and keep the best one,never know it might be the best pair because it has never been used since installed
The problem with lines is that it's not just length, but also quality, which determine the result. Beforehand, people can only give you an estimate of what speed might be achieved, the actual speed is only known once you've activated (and, therefore, spent the money).
QuoteYes i understand that but that last time i went through a training period i dont remember this many re-syncs
My line went through the training process recently and it behaved quite differently to the previous training that was roughly 1 year ago. The decisions made were quite different, choices of sync speed, noise margins etc. Perhaps the software at BT has been updated or the logic adjusted. My line resync'd at least 3 or 4 times during the training and even afterwards for the next 20 days I was seeing resyncs almost every other night. Each resync was trying out a slightly different setting and most recently it's been tweaking the interleave depth and in fact 3 days ago the depth was reduced to 1 (so it's now in fast path mode).
My advice is to be patient and wait at least a month before drawing any conclusions. Initially my speed dropped too, but later on it stepped back up and the line is performing better today than its ever been. The most important thing above all else is not to reset or do anything to your router that might cause a resync.
> sysinfo
Number of processes: 38
12:10pm up 44 days, 21:32,
I think I restarted my router the day before training started, so that's 44 days ago. So around 40 days after training started I was still seeing adjustments, tweaking, etc.. Perhaps that's just normal and not part of training at all but I suppose you can expect to see the same sort of things.
Just don't reset your router, best advice!! :thumb:
Quote from: jezuk1 on Oct 01, 2011, 13:08:09
My line went through the training process recently and it behaved quite differently to the previous training that was roughly 1 year ago. The decisions made were quite different, choices of sync speed, noise margins etc. Perhaps the software at BT has been updated or the logic adjusted. My line resync'd at least 3 or 4 times during the training and even afterwards for the next 20 days I was seeing resyncs almost every other night. Each resync was trying out a slightly different setting and most recently it's been tweaking the interleave depth and in fact 3 days ago the depth was reduced to 1 (so it's now in fast path mode).
My advice is to be patient and wait at least a month before drawing any conclusions. Initially my speed dropped too, but later on it stepped back up and the line is performing better today than its ever been. The most important thing above all else is not to reset or do anything to your router that might cause a resync.
> sysinfo
Number of processes: 38
12:10pm up 44 days, 21:32,
I think I restarted my router the day before training started, so that's 44 days ago. So around 40 days after training started I was still seeing adjustments, tweaking, etc.. Perhaps that's just normal and not part of training at all but I suppose you can expect to see the same sort of things.
Just don't reset your router, best advice!! :thumb:
I understand what your saying and would agree if it was resetting once or even twice a day but over the last three days mine has been re-syncing between four and five times,I had a power cut this morning so have lost the exact router stats but it was four times yesterday and twice this morning
Quote from: Rik on Oct 01, 2011, 12:54:08
The problem with lines is that it's not just length, but also quality, which determine the result. Beforehand, people can only give you an estimate of what speed might be achieved, the actual speed is only known once you've activated (and, therefore, spent the money).
It's only money
Quoteover the last three days mine has been re-syncing between four and five times
Seems quite a lot, but you're going through training and every line behaves differently. Sync speed is only one indication - there is a lot more analysis and adjustments going on behind the scenes. Have you investigated the cause of the resyncs? Some routers will give you a "resync reason" through the telnet interface or perhaps even on the web interface.
It's always ERR_SIG_INTERRUPT or IDLE_REQUST it also does it with other routers ie 834gt/g
Idle_request normally indicates a user initiated resync. It could be the router power supply is iffy.
QuoteIdle_request normally indicates a user initiated resync. It could be the router power supply is iffy.
Could it be the router requesting to enter link power state L3?
L3 Idle: "When there is no user data to be transmitted, the system may enter the idle state. In this state there is no signal transmitted on the link. The unit may be without power."
Ref: http://www.zhone.com/support/manuals/docs/26/2600-A3-ZB20-70/adsl_power_management.htm (http://www.zhone.com/support/manuals/docs/26/2600-A3-ZB20-70/adsl_power_management.htm)
Possible, but all the idle_requests I've seen on a 2700 have come about through resyncs or reboots, and the power supply has often been a weak point to judge by comments in the forum. I've certainly had a couple which have turned faulty and trigger re-boots at odd intervals.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 01, 2011, 15:44:38
Possible, but all the idle_requests I've seen on a 2700 have come about through resyncs or reboots, and the power supply has often been a weak point to judge by comments in the forum. I've certainly had a couple which have turned faulty and trigger re-boots at odd intervals.
It's a brand new power supply, I do have another I could try if i Unplug it and leave it for five minutes does the exchange still see it as a re-sync,there are always far more err_sig_interrupt than idle requests,I don't have the figures now(because of power cut) but I think it was about 4-1
It does.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 01, 2011, 15:56:38
It does.
Will wait till Monday to change then
Just keep your eye on the router log in the interim..
I use the dsl diagnostics page
well im now on day 10 and already have had 4 disconects since the power cut yesterday i ave attached my stats page
The ERR_SIG_INTERRUPT suggests a line fault to me.
That's always the error code apart from the odd user-requst,and that's what I have been saying for the last ten days lol But idnet are not seeing any disconnects even though they are on the stats
Since twenty to midnight I have had 5 retrains you can't tell me this is normal considering I'm now on day 10
I couldn't tell anyone what is normal, everyone has a different experience of training. In my case, the line has always started fast and unstable and reduced to slower but stable over 4-5 days.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 02, 2011, 16:27:14
I couldn't tell anyone what is normal, everyone has a different experience of training. In my case, the line has always started fast and unstable and reduced to slower but stable over 4-5 days.
Same for me when I went from bt to sky and then from sky to orange,the first time the line was set after 5days and second time after 7days(on a separate note did any one with sky connect notice that when ever you phoned up to complain the person you complained to always had connect too lol)
My stats page for 24 hrs
ATM Since Reset Current 24-Hour Interval Current 15-Minute Interval Time Since
Last Event
Cell Header Errors: 2317 2317 0 0:33:05
Loss of Cell Delineation: 364 364 0 3:47:42
DSL
Link Retrains: 5 5 0 3:40:30
DSL Training Errors: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Training Timeouts: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Framing Failures: 5 5 0 3:47:42
Loss of Signal Failures: 5 5 0 3:47:42
Loss of Power Failures: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures: 5 5 0 3:47:42
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors: 158 158 0 0:33:05
Cumulative Sec. w/Severe Errors: 47 47 0 3:47:42
Corrected Blocks: 13542 13542 62 0:00:02
Uncorrectable Blocks: 2413 2413 0 0:33:05
DSL Unavailable Seconds: 157 157 0 3:40:11
Seven re-syncs in 24hrs not bad going for the tenth day of the training period
scratch that eight
this is an Absolute Disgrace i am really consdering leaving idnet tomorrow morning,EIGHT DROPS in one day on the last day of the training period and to still be told "lines degrade over time and your getting 1.5mb which is what bt says you can get so tough" is not good enough this has been a total farce from the begining!!!
i have been told on another forum that there is an obvious line fault because the Output Power changes after every re-sync when it should be the same all the time my patience has now gone
here is my bt speed test use to be 2.5mb throughput
Download speedachieved during the test was - 1055 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 400-2000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :1792 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 1250 Kbps
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 02, 2011, 20:32:17
i have been told on another forum that there is an obvious line fault because the Output Power changes after every re-sync when it should be the same all the time my patience has now gone
All you've been told "on another forum" (Thinkbroadband) is the same that you've already been told on here.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 02, 2011, 10:59:56
The ERR_SIG_INTERRUPT suggests a line fault to me.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 01, 2011, 15:16:40
Idle_request normally indicates a user initiated resync. It could be the router power supply is iffy.
And most importantly..
Quote from: Simon on Sep 30, 2011, 10:53:28
Regardless of whether there is or isn't a fault, BT won't do anything until after the 10 days.
All I can suggest is you collate as much concise information as possible and present it in a clear and thoughtful email to Idnet tomorrow now your training period is over.
I'd also create a TBBQM - http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/monitors/create.html - and post the results after 24 hours.
I'd also create a TBBQM - http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/monitors/create.html - and post the results after 24 hours.
[/quote]
How does that work does it automatically log the results once I have logged into it or do I have to leave my pc active overnight
Woppy
Once you have set it up it'll start logging automatically and you only need to have your modem switched on and connected for it to log. You do need to ensure that your modem set up to accept ping requests.
Does my bit loading look ok
also how does this look i cant make head nor tail of it
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/7eff4116909df6b284489f78b70349f8-03-10-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/7eff4116909df6b284489f78b70349f8-03-10-2011.html)
I've not seen one looking like that before. The red spike at around 6.00am shows a brief loss of service, probably a resync and the rest appears to suggest your latency is all over the shop. If you were hammering the Internet all night then it might make some sense, otherwise I'd say you have a problem.
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Oct 03, 2011, 07:17:00
I've not seen one looking like that before. The red spike at around 6.00am shows a brief loss of service, probably a resync and the rest appears to suggest your latency is all over the shop. If you were hammer the Internet all night then it might make some sense, otherwise I'd say you have a problem.
nope my pc was on but not doing anything it rarely gets switched off these days, so you think i possibley have a problem
first re-sync of the day,on day 11 of the training period
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 03, 2011, 07:56:55
nope my pc was on but not doing anything it rarely gets switched off these days, so you think i possibley have a problem
If its not doing anything why leave it on? Do you use any p2p clients? Have you done a major sweep of your pc for nasties? Best to count out everything at your end, cabling, position or wiring, type or wiring etc. Day 11 hey...sarcasm will not get you good service anywhere, just saying.
That TBBQM looks like very heavy p2p usage to me.
If you're not knowingly doing it then do as Gary suggests above. Un addition do you have wireless enabled? Can you be sure no one else is using your connection?
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 03, 2011, 07:56:55
nope my pc was on but not doing anything it rarely gets switched off these days, so you think i possibley have a problem
Well the graph doesn't look very healthy as far as your latency is concerned. Try running a ping command from a DOS window i.e. ping idnet.net -n 100
If there's no other throughput occurring on your connection that should return a fairly steady result. What looks slightly odd to me, for a graph showing so much variation in latency, there is no packet loss showing. I'm no expert but something doesn't seem quite right to me.
[EDIT] As both Gary and Griff have said it, I have to agree, the graph really does suggest that your connection is being continually hammered so I would check everything they have suggested.
Quote from: Gary on Oct 03, 2011, 08:29:15
If its not doing anything why leave it on? Do you use any p2p clients? Have you done a major sweep of your pc for nasties? Best to count out everything at your end, cabling, position or wiring, type or wiring etc. Day 11 hey...sarcasm will not get you good service anywhere, just saying.
i have not had good service, i have just phoned up idnet and they have said my line hasnt droped at all they are showing a stable line yet my dsl history shows 9 resyncs since sunday,so i can have an engineer at my own cost.£35 per month and a service far worse than orange and sky
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 03, 2011, 08:35:48
That TBBQM looks like very heavy p2p usage to me.
If you're not knowingly doing it then do as Gary suggests above. Un addition do you have wireless enabled? Can you be sure no one else is using your connection?
there is no p2p going on on my end, i have now changed my wireless password just incase some one was using it(i do online game but deffo wasnt doing that at 6am lol)
I'm not sure if this is relevant but on the details from the router for the last few days all your resyncs have been during the day, none have happened overnight. Is there something that gets turned on/off during the day which may be causing a problem? You mentioned a noisy socket in the past, did you get this fixed?
Hi Woppy
Something is using your bandwidth and has been overnight. Significantly, your upstream bandwidth usage is higher than your downstream. This would indicate P2P or a virus that is sending out spam etc.
We can see that your router has been continuously connected since 18:09 on Saturday 1st. That your router is reporting otherwise is a cause for concern. I would recommend that you try a different (new) router.
Regards
Simon
I think you may have multiple problems, so you need to eliminate them one by one.
First, why not switch the PC off overnight? If the TBB monitor and/or idnet logs then show a significant difference it's clear you have a problem with the PC - possibly a virus as Simon_idnet suggests. Get that sorted.
Then you can look at what's happening and address any remaining problems. If iDNet can't see a series of disconnections at their end , it looks as though you may have either a router or wiring problem, so you can move to address those.
It's only by a process of patient elimination that you'll get to the bottom of it. I doubt moving from idnet is going to make any difference, but that's your choice.
I notice there's a distinct change in the graph since you've changed your wireless password.
It could just be a coincidence but it suggests someone was using your wireless and hammering the connection.
Having said that there's still a regular and timed pattern of upload which needs investigating. Do a complete virus and aware scan ASAP.
I noticed that also, my pc does an auto virus/spy sweep every day @1200hrs and had never picked anything up,I will change my router now but I wad using the netgear ate the start of the training period and was doing the same thing(I am sure the noise isn't coming from my end I have changed routers, modem cables,turned the heating off for three days solid and the router is now over away from all power sockets) my router is plugged into a adsl nation filterd face plate so that excludes internal wiring
If you could turn off the pc for 30 minutes or so it would be helpful.
Is there anyone else in the household that might have been using the connection overnight?
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 03, 2011, 10:57:03
If you could turn off the pc for 30 minutes or so it would be helpful.
It's off using iPad only
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 03, 2011, 10:58:41
It's off using iPad only
What time did you turn off the PC?
Since approximately 8.45am someone and/or something has been using your connection to upload something every 30 minutes.
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 03, 2011, 11:04:30
What time did you turn off the PC?
Since approximately 8.45am someone and/or something has been using your connection to upload something every 30 minutes.
I turned the pc off at 1045 my wife is in the house but she will be using the iPad,I have changed the router so no one can be using my network
The new router isn't setup to accept ICMP ping requests (see red block on graph).
The fact still remains prior to you turning off your PC at 10.45am something/someone was using your connection to upload something exactly every 30 minutes. The consistent timing of it suggests it's something on your PC you're not aware of.
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 03, 2011, 11:53:02
The new router isn't setup to accept ICMP ping requests (see red block on graph).
The fact still remains prior to you turning off your PC at 10.45am something/someone was using your connection to upload something exactly every 30 minutes. The consistent timing of it suggests it's something on your PC you're not aware of.
The only thing running was router stats
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 03, 2011, 12:04:42
The only thing running was router stats
The only thing you're aware that's running is router stats but something is definitely hammering your upload every 30 minutes. You only have to look at the graph yourself to see the latency goes through the roof (literally) every 30 minutes.
how do i open up my router to allow it to work
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 03, 2011, 12:34:25
how do i open up my router to allow it to work
Without my crystal ball I'll need to know what router you're now using?!? ;)
It varies from router to router. On my 2700:
http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=J15&THISPAGE=J14&NEXTPAGE=J15
and uncheck the stealth mode box.
On other routers, it may be a case of allowing ICMP traffic.
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 03, 2011, 12:37:36
Without my crystal ball I'll need to know what router you're now using?!? ;)
sorry dg834g v3 i have now change from the 2700
Advanced -> WAN Setup -> enable "Respond to Ping on Internet WAN Port" and click Apply.
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 03, 2011, 12:47:43
Advanced -> WAN Setup -> enable "Respond to Ping on Internet WAN Port" and click Apply.
thanks its now active again
Woppy, I would grab the free version of Prevx and see what it finds, its very very thorough and is worth using its a small download and works with any AV. If something is alluding your pc security it should find it. Prevx 3.0 should be fine http://www.prevx.com/
Quote from: Gary on Oct 03, 2011, 12:54:24
Woppy, I would grab the free version of Prevx and see what it finds, its very very thorough and is worth using its a small download and works with any AV. If something is alluding your pc security it should find it. Prevx 3.0 should be fine http://www.prevx.com/
at the minute im using webroot but i will do that thanks
BTW the virus and spy came back clean,im giving it a second pass just in case
Quote from: Gary on Oct 03, 2011, 12:54:24
Woppy, I would grab the free version of Prevx and see what it finds, its very very thorough and is worth using its a small download and works with any AV. If something is alluding your pc security it should find it. Prevx 3.0 should be fine http://www.prevx.com/
i have ran that and it has came back clean
i have just caught another drop,there is nothing that i can see going on!
(my heating is off,my wife is sitting in the ipad,none of the street lights are on nothing was switched on or off in my house)
Whilst in the router:
I would monitor who's using the connection at Maintenance > Attached devices.
Might also be a good idea to change wireless security at Setup > Wireless Settings > Security > Security Options > select anything but None & WEP.
Or turn of wireless and use a cable for now at Setup > Wireless Settings > Wireles Network > Uncheck Enable Wireless.
(Working from memory for DG834, so forgive me if this is not quite right, but you get the idea).
You have probably done all this:
On disconnect problem, check correlation with use of phone and ensure no sky box connected. You are on a long line so think about aircraft beacons/ground radar, air and ground radio activity, radio amateurs, arc welders. All should be well out of BB spectrum but strong, especially digital, comms can impact, eg mobile phone next to radio effect. Talk to others in the area for similar problem. My guess is a flaky line. Griff is the expert there. Check quiet line test a good few times listening for crackle. Don't expect BT to be any use unless it's diss.
On noisy socket:
All power supplies are noisy, but not usually a problem. I have tried using extra ferrite suppressors, moving cables close and far and never found an impact. You will have a couple of ring mains or so,and lighting circuits in the house. They can be switched off in turn to eliminate appliances etc.
See still have latency issue. What is the activity?
Hang in there. You will fix it. Good luck, Dave.
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 03, 2011, 08:35:48
That TBBQM looks like very heavy p2p usage to me.
If you're not knowingly doing it then do as Gary suggests above. Un addition do you have wireless enabled? Can you be sure no one else is using your connection?
Could it be line congestion for the area? IE everyone else is heavy on the p2p. :P
This is a small local exchange, 600 or so lines. May be the VP or the uplink is congested.
The TBB monitor graph looks much better now....in other words, it looks a lot more normal since the switch to the Netgear.
I may have found the culprit my laptop that the wife uses for her banking had utorrent running on it and insted of shutting it down she had just closed the lid I should find out over the next few hours,still doesn't explain the drops though lol
Quote from: Technical Ben on Oct 03, 2011, 14:04:42
Could it be line congestion for the area? IE everyone else is heavy on the p2p. :P
It looks nothing like congestion Ben. It's symptomatic of heavy P2P use as subsequently confirmed by Simon from Idnet.
Edit -
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 03, 2011, 15:02:29
I may have found the culprit my laptop that the wife uses for her banking had utorrent running on it
looks like a dose of humble pie is in order
Access your dg834 router (192.168.0.1)
Navigate to attached devices. Switch on laptop.
Is the laptop showing when the lid is closed?
If so, set the laptop to switch off when lid is closed.
If anyone else is showing (other than you) your router is compromised.
All a bit basic really but you'd best run a check now.
Quote from: joe on Oct 03, 2011, 15:40:56
looks like a dose of humble pie is in order
how so i still have had 3 disconnects this afternoon which makes 4 for the day, i have never complained about the Latency or the upload
Quote from: sobranie on Oct 03, 2011, 16:30:28
Access your dg834 router (192.168.0.1)
Navigate to attached devices. Switch on laptop.
Is the laptop showing when the lid is closed?
If so, set the laptop to switch off when lid is closed.
If anyone else is showing (other than you) your router is compromised.
All a bit basic really but you'd best run a check now.
yep all devices accounted for
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 03, 2011, 16:47:20
how so i still have had 3 disconnects this afternoon which makes 4 for the day
Any resync is an issue between your equipment and the exchange, iow it's either a BT fault or a wiring/equipment problem at your end. As IDNet can't see your disconnects I'm puzzled as to what is happening. Now you're on the Netgear, what's the router log reporting?
Can you post the contents of your router log?
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:19 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:19 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:22 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:22 - CHAP authentication success
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:24 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:24 - Send out NTP request to time-g.netgear.com
Mon, 2011-10-03 09:57:07 - Receive NTP Reply from time-g.netgear.com
Mon, 2011-10-03 09:56:42 - Router start up
Mon, 2011-10-03 11:29:58 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2
<IP address removed - Rik>
Mon, 2011-10-03 11:49:57 - LCP down.
Mon, 2011-10-03 11:50:00 - Initialize LCP.
Mon, 2011-10-03 11:50:00 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Mon, 2011-10-03 11:50:23 - CHAP authentication success
Mon, 2011-10-03 13:06:51 - LCP down.
Mon, 2011-10-03 13:07:08 - Initialize LCP.
Mon, 2011-10-03 13:07:08 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Mon, 2011-10-03 13:07:19 - CHAP authentication success
Mon, 2011-10-03 14:52:01 - LCP down.
Mon, 2011-10-03 14:52:19 - Initialize LCP.
Mon, 2011-10-03 14:52:19 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Mon, 2011-10-03 14:52:24 - CHAP authentication success
Mon, 2011-10-03 16:05:34 - LCP down.
Mon, 2011-10-03 16:05:37 - Initialize LCP.
Mon, 2011-10-03 16:05:38 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Mon, 2011-10-03 16:05:49 - LCP down.
Mon, 2011-10-03 16:05:53 - Initialize LCP.
Mon, 2011-10-03 16:05:53 - LCP is allowed to come up.
dont have aclue what the hell it all means
It could mean a resync or it could mean a loss of PPP - what does Routerstats indicate, ie are there matching entries with show a 0 noise margin when LCP goes down and a new sync speed afterwards?
Quote from: Rik on Oct 03, 2011, 17:19:38
It could mean a resync or it could mean a loss of PPP - what does Routerstats indicate, ie are there matching entries with show a 0 noise margin when LCP goes down and a new sync speed afterwards?
yes there are snr drops to 0 both times,one thing that is happening now though since i put the netgear on is web pages are failing to load and when ever im tring to post a msg on here it takes 2 or 3 attempts to post(just sits there page loading) i end up having to press back and start again
also how is my other chart looking now(i forget what its called)
But is there a different sync speed afterwards? You still seem to have patches of heavy uploading affecting your latency. If that's the case, Routerstats will often return a 0 NM as it can't access the router in time. Have you got the latest firmware on the Netgear?
Quote from: Rik on Oct 03, 2011, 17:27:29
But is there a different sync speed afterwards? You still seem to have patches of heavy uploading affecting your latency. If that's the case, Routerstats will often return a 0 NM as it can't access the router in time. Have you got the latest firmware on the Netgear?
yes sorry the sync droped from 3200 to 2336,there is no uploading and there should not have been any from 1230 till 1630 my daughter went on msn when she got in from school at 1630(unless push email on my ipad causes it)yes it has the lates firmware
does this meen that my 2700hgv wasnt to blame(and i can put it back on)
how come this has been stickied to the top of the page
I think it may have been a mistake - it's unsticked now. :)
Quote from: Simon on Oct 03, 2011, 17:58:43
I think it may have been a mistake - it's unsticked now. :)
cool thanks(thought it was some one taking the mick ;D)
so because im still getting the re-syncs does that mean my 2700hgv mayby wasnt to blame and can put it back on?
Going back to the machine which was running uTorrent (presumably explaining the overnight activity), I wonder if the dropouts could be caused by it trying to make too many connections, and possibly triggering a firewall somewhere? My uTorrent is set to a maximum of 750 connections, which you can set in Options > Preferences > Bandwidth.
Maybe its worth switching off microtorrent for a day or so?
It would certainly be worth trying that.
Quote from: Simon on Oct 03, 2011, 18:12:35
Going back to the machine which was running uTorrent (presumably explaining the overnight activity), I wonder if the dropouts could be caused by it trying to make too many connections, and possibly triggering a firewall somewhere? My uTorrent is set to a maximum of 750 connections, which you can set in Options > Preferences > Bandwidth.
I switched off Utorrent as soon as I found out it was on,but have still had 2re-syncs since it was switched off(it was only on yesterday and last night because my mrs was doing some banking yesterday)
Quote from: Simon on Oct 03, 2011, 18:18:38
It would certainly be worth trying that.
All torrents are off and will stay off for the forseable future
Woppy have you checked for engineering works here http://status.zen.co.uk/broadband/
Quote from: pctech on Oct 03, 2011, 18:24:01
Woppy have you checked for engineering works here http://status.zen.co.uk/broadband/
Yes mate mine (01661) hasn't had any work for a while
I'm dreading bt coming tomorrow now because knowing my luck (the way it's gone over the last few weeks,not only the Internet but other things)he's going to say he can't see the fault,even though I have dsl diagnostics print screens to show him,router stats to show him of all the drops and re-syncs.
What else should I have ready for him getting here?(should I be plugged into the test socket ?)
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 03, 2011, 18:21:41
I switched off Utorrent as soon as I found out it was on,but have still had 2re-syncs since it was switched off(it was only on yesterday and last night because my mrs was doing some banking yesterday)
Obviously, the banking isn't connected to uTorrent (I hope! :eek4:), so is uTorrent set to start with Windows on that machine? Sorry to be sticking on this, but if you're not careful, it will eat up lots of your performance by continually uploading, and will eventually affect your download stream, as the upload stream can become saturated. I know it may not be causing the dropouts, but I think this is quite important too. It would be good to check on that machine that uTorrent only starts when activated by the user, and not, by default, when Windows starts.
They test with their own kit Woppy so not much you can do.
Fingers crossed you get a decent engineer who is a broadband specialist.
Best you can do is get plenty of coffee and bacon sandwiches on the go. ;)
Quote from: Simon on Oct 03, 2011, 18:33:33
Obviously, the banking isn't connected to uTorrent (I hope! :eek4:), so is uTorrent set to start with Windows on that machine? Sorry to be sticking on this, but if you're not careful, it will eat up lots of your performance by continually uploading, and will eventually affect your download stream, as the upload stream can become saturated. I know it may not be causing the dropouts, but I think this is quite important too. It would be good to check on that machine that uTorrent only starts when activated by the user, and not, by default, when Windows starts.
Yes it comes on with windows but the laptop doesn't get switched off my mrs must have restated the laptop yesterday which activated it(has now been switched of permentely)
Quote from: Simon on Oct 03, 2011, 18:37:10
Best you can do is get plenty of coffee and bacon sandwiches on the go. ;)
Already told my mrs that lol
Sorry if I've missed this, but have you done comprehensive virus / malware sweeps on the laptop too?
Quote from: Simon on Oct 03, 2011, 18:40:25
Sorry if I've missed this, but have you done comprehensive virus / malware sweeps on the laptop too?
Yes that is more secure than my desktop because that's where our banking gets done(it normally only gets switched on to do banking and then off again my mrs uses my iPad through the day)
How does this look now
The only outgoing connection is my daughter on Facebook
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/810afa264043893e720af8a4b134724b.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/810afa264043893e720af8a4b134724b.html)
Looking at that your connection would have dropped momentarily just after 5pm (5.05pm/5.10pm something like that) which was caused by the DLM increasing the level of interleaving.
Does your router log show something happening at that time?
That's another thing I play star trek online and have done for two years(well just under) it has always played really well on my connection until around four days ago now it's almost unplayable,i get elastic banding and server not responding all the time(no problems with STO servers created two tickets because of it)
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 03, 2011, 18:51:51
Looking at that your connection would have dropped momentarily just after 5pm (5.05pm/5.10pm something like that) which was caused by the DLM increasing the level of interleaving.
Does your router log show something happening at that time?
Nothing at 5pm had a re-sync at 1745hrs
Something doesn't add up somewhere. Simon (Idnet) tells us that your sync was stable over the weekend but you have router logs that apparently show it losing connection multiple times. Added to that your TBBQM clearly shows a resync just after 5pm but you says there's nothing recorded for that time.
If you've got OR coming tomorrow lets hope he has a JDSU or EXFO.
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 03, 2011, 19:03:26
Something doesn't add up somewhere. Simon (Idnet) tells us that your sync was stable over the weekend but you have router logs that apparently show it losing connection multiple times. Added to that your TBBQM clearly shows a resync just after 5pm but you says there's nothing recorded for that time.
If you've got OR coming tomorrow lets hope he has a JDSU or EXFO.
A what or a what lol
IDNet did see the resyncs when Woppy changed routers. :dunno:
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 03, 2011, 19:07:15
A what or a what lol
Diagnostic/test equipment.
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 03, 2011, 19:03:26
Something doesn't add up somewhere. Simon (Idnet) tells us that your sync was stable over the weekend but you have router logs that apparently show it losing connection multiple times. Added to that your TBBQM clearly shows a resync just after 5pm but you says there's nothing recorded for that time.
If you've got OR coming tomorrow lets hope he has a JDSU or EXFO.
here are my router logs from this morning before i changed to the netgear
(am i looking at the wrong thing here because what im seeing is the line retrain from 2688 to 2040 to 3556 to 2432 to 1696 to 2624 to 1792 to 2624 in one and a half days,please tell me if im wrong,i have better/more important things to do with my time than sit here and make this up)
My sync doesn't even last long enough to let my ip profile come up from 1.25mbps so it must be re-syncing if that doesn't change
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 03, 2011, 19:14:41
here are my router logs from this morning before i changed to the netgear
(am i looking at the wrong thing here because what im seeing is the line retrain from 2688 to 2040 to 3556 to 2432 to 1696 to 2624 to 1792 to 2624 in one and a half days,please tell me if im wrong,i have better/more important things to do with my time than sit here and make this up)
No-one suggested you were "making this up" at all.
However Idnet (via Simon) is saying one thing and you're saying another. That's what I meant about something not adding up.
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 03, 2011, 19:35:35
No-one suggested you were "making this up" at all.
However Idnet (via Simon) is saying one thing and you're saying another. That's what I meant about something not adding up.
I have put up a print screen of the last dsl status before I changed routers they have all the re-syncs on there,sometimes I catch the re-sync the dsl light goes out for a few seconds then starts flashing then goes solid after around a minute
At this minute in time I would be happy if it stabilised at 2303 which it's at now and gave me a 2mb ip profile,I'm sick to death of all these re-syncs
We see a login at 17:06 last night and at 17:51. Perhaps the router needs its time/date reset?
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Oct 04, 2011, 09:22:23
We see a login at 17:06 last night and at 17:51. Perhaps the router needs its time/date reset?
the router hasnt been touched at all from 1030(think that was the time)yesterday when i switched it over from the 2700hgv till now
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 04, 2011, 09:29:30
the router hasnt been touched at all from 1030(think that was the time)yesterday when i switched it over from the 2700hgv till now
Was it adjusted for British summertime in the settings?
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Oct 04, 2011, 09:22:23
We see a login at 17:06 last night and at 17:51. Perhaps the router needs its time/date reset?
Those times exactly match the red lines on the TBB graph....
bt guy has been and he thinks there is a problem at the exchange(looking to do a lift and shift whatever that is?),he couldnt find a problem from my line to the cab apart from the speed going up and down like a yoyo(2345 to 1680 to 2880 to 1536 to 2500 to 1456),he said it shouldnt be dropping and going up that much when he disconnets and reconects his equipment(it should be staying around the one figure ie 2272,2248,2196,2275)when he checked the speed at the cab it was 1500kbps(that one got him scratching his head synced@2848atm)he said it should be at least 3mb if not more at the cab
I'm wondering if BT configured the circuit correctly. A lift and shift is disconnecting your current connection at the exchange and making a new one, possibly on a different DSLAM.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 04, 2011, 11:21:41
I'm wondering if BT configured the circuit correctly. A lift and shift is disconnecting your current connection at the exchange and making a new one, possibly on a different DSLAM.
what do you meen configured the circuit correctly
the closest other exchange is wylam which is 6miles away
the engineer has put me on a new set of lines he said the lines i was on might not of been too suitable for BB(syncing @3168 12db snr and the attenuation has droped to 57)so with any luck that might be it fixed.(praying from no more drops)
Hopefully it fixes your problem :fingers:
Quote from: Glenn on Oct 04, 2011, 12:53:31
Hopefully it fixes your problem :fingers:
tell me about it :fingers::fingers::fingers::fingers:
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 04, 2011, 12:02:22
what do you meen configured the circuit correctly
Just that. They make a physical circuit then it's configured in software, remotely.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 04, 2011, 13:02:07
Just that. They make a physical circuit then it's configured in software, remotely.
Ahhh right,the bt guy was great he spent an hour at the exchange looking for the fastest/best/most stable pair for my line( hats off to him)
Just had a re-sync up to 4032 6db snr looks like my training period has started again
If that's the case, you need to leave it alone. :)
Quote from: Simon on Oct 04, 2011, 13:22:21
If that's the case, you need to leave it alone. :)
i plan too :laugh:
i dont expect the 4032 to last long because fast path doesnt seem to like my line length
Hope this works out better :fingers:
Quote from: Gary on Oct 04, 2011, 13:55:44
Hope this works out better
same here:fingers:
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 04, 2011, 14:04:28
same here:fingers:
You appear to be fingering me :whistle:
Sounds like you got a good engineer! :thumb:
Quote from: Gary on Oct 04, 2011, 14:09:03
You appear to be fingering me :whistle:
A little space makes all the difference. ;)
Quote from: Lance on Oct 04, 2011, 16:19:38
Sounds like you got a good engineer! :thumb:
Yeah he was to notch ;D he told me he was going to the exchange to see what the problem was, he then phoned my wife to tell her he's was going to change over the pair and that the phone would be off for a little while,he then phoned back to say he had found a pair that had a stable 2mb connection but he was going to have a look through some more pairs to see if he could get me more speed!can't ask for more than that can you?
Ended up getting ATM 3456kbps 56att and 6db snr
Re-synced about an hour ago from 3424 to 3456 but I'm expecting that because fast path doesn't agree with my line(so I'm expecting a few more till interleaving is switched on)
Quote from: Gary on Oct 04, 2011, 14:09:03
You appear to be fingering me :whistle:
Fingering is great :o
Good to know this appears to be sorted, but what I can't understand is why the disconnects were visible at the OP's end but apparently not visible to iDNet....
That puzzles me too, Tac, and is why I am wondering if the circuit wasn't configured correctly.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 05, 2011, 10:34:25
That puzzles me too, Tac, and is why I am wondering if the circuit wasn't configured correctly.
I suspect it's something we may not find out unless BT report back to iDNet and Simon posts some details. Certainly it would be good to know what the underlying problem was, both for our own information and to close the thread on TB.
Indeed.
Who initiated the BT visit, Woppy or IDNET? Was it one of those pay if no fault found arrangements or was there clear evidence of a fault up front?
Thx, Dave.
I don't know, Dave. On TB, Simon says IDNet sent out an engineer.
There was no fault acknowledged by BT's systems, we arranged the engineer at woppy's request. Thankfully the engineer was thorough.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Oct 05, 2011, 14:43:30
There was no fault acknowledged by BT's systems, we arranged the engineer at woppy's request. Thankfully the engineer was thorough.
that was the one thing i was worried about £200 is a lot to pay,what happens now does idnet still get some sort of bill or does bt/openreach absorb it?
There's no charge if the fault is found to be BT's side.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Oct 05, 2011, 14:43:30
There was no fault acknowledged by BT's systems, ......
OK Simon, but are BT investigating exactly why there was no fault acknowledged? Wouldn't that would require them to admit there was a fault with their systems?
Makes you wonder how often this happens, causing unnecessary stress both to customers and at iDNet towers, with end users left with an unwarranted poor impression of iDNet's service.
Quote from: Tacitus on Oct 05, 2011, 16:17:50
OK Simon, but are BT investigating exactly why there was no fault acknowledged? Wouldn't that would require them to admit there was a fault with their systems?
Makes you wonder how often this happens, causing unnecessary stress both to customers and at iDNet towers, with end users left with an unwarranted poor impression of iDNet's service.
hit the nail on the head,if i didnt get a good engineer yesterday(if he had just and said there was nothing wrong with it,your getting a sync so i dont see a problem)i would of ended up with a £200 and still had the problem i had been having!
BTW one re-sync today which was to turn interleaving on i presume
Quote from: woppy101 on Oct 05, 2011, 16:40:06
BTW one re-sync today which was to turn interleaving on i presume
Your TBBQM will show if the level of interleaving has changed or not.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Oct 05, 2011, 14:43:30
There was no fault acknowledged by BT's systems, we arranged the engineer at woppy's request. Thankfully the engineer was thorough.
Thanks for the clarification, Simon, and later Woppy.
Seems to me ISPs are working blind, caught in the middle between an obdurate BT and frustrated customers, who have a genuine reason to believe there is a fault. This week we have two blinding examples, Griff and Woppy, of customers who have gambled and won. Perversely, the gamble is not whether or not there is a fault, but whether BT have the technical ability to find it. On the other hand, we often see cases where customers get angry, believing there to be a fault, when the reality is faulty house wiring or just the limit of the technology, so there is a point to a charge for a false call. The problem with BT's present policy is it is unilateral, often based on their failure to diagnose the problem and there is no right of appeal to independent adjudication, as one might for example with a parking fine.
For me the test is (1) have all user and ISP related causes been eliminated and (2) are there reasonable grounds to believe there might be a fault. In which case it is reasonable to expect a transparent no charge investigation by BT. Right now BT are behaving unreasonably as judge, jury and executioner. This kind of monopolist behavior will not end until someone takes out a class action.
I couldn't have put it better, Dave. There should be a right to review by an independent, technically-competent, appeals panel, who have the teeth to fine BT heavily for failures on their part.
Instead we have the toothless ofcom that can only gum them a bit.
Exactly. :mad:
Quote from: pctech on Oct 05, 2011, 17:41:10
Instead we have the toothless ofcom that can only gum them a bit.
:o