Not long to wait...
http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/5/31/apple-confirms-osx-lion-launch-wwdc/
I wonder how long before the release which I'm guessing could be via the Appstore
Quote from: Steve on Jun 02, 2011, 10:56:35which I'm guessing could be via the Appstore
For an OS I prefer to buy the DVD, so I hope it's also available via the usual route.
Just bought a new iMac at the beginning of May.
Wonder if I'll get any discount on the Lion upgrade?
:fingers:
The pricing should be interesting to find out as last time it was about £30 for Snow Leopard.
IIRC SL was released as an upgrade rather than a new OS, but I can't remember how much Leopard was.
Looks like Leopard was about £85
http://www.reghardware.com/2007/10/16/apple_announces_leopard_day/print.html
Ouch... and that's probably for a single licence >:(
Think I might wait for some reviews...
Think Apple are launching iCloud with this one aren't they?
Will be interesting to see how much network traffic it generates.
Lion available July, 4Gb download from app store , $29.99 .Can be installed on all your authorised machines with one purchase. :thumb:
Thanks Steve :thumb:
Looks like it's only available from the App Store but I like the price.
I'd have liked the option of buying it on a DVD, but for that price I'll burn my own ;D
No doubt it will be £29.99 for UK downloaders.
At least.
Maybe not... Snow Leopard is $29 in the US, £26 over here.
Quote from: Bill on Jun 06, 2011, 20:08:45
Maybe not... Snow Leopard is $29 in the US, £26 over here.
Just a point - Mac appstore apps that go for $29.99 sell for £17.99 here.
:fingers: :fingers: :fingers:
For you mobile users- details of iOS 5 (http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/).
Sometime in the autumn, rumoured at $24.99 per household.
Quote from: MikeSh on Jun 06, 2011, 20:31:11
Just a point - Mac appstore apps that go for $29.99 sell for £17.99 here.
Just realised, that's a bit weird... $29.99 is about £18.50, with VAT it's £22-odd.
Maybe the yanks are being overcharged for a change :P
For completeness iCloud.
http://www.apple.com/icloud/
Quote from: Bill on Jun 06, 2011, 19:23:38
I'd have liked the option of buying it on a DVD, but for that price I'll burn my own ;D
Dont think you can, Bill. It installs directly and leaves a recovery partition on your hardrive. No DMG as of yet to burn, maybe there there will be DVD for people with slow networks and not using SL but not seen it mentioned yet, also not upgrading till its got to at least 10.7.2 so some bugs get squashed.
A separate 4GB download for every machine isn't going to be popular with individuals/organisations using multiple Macs... I'll wait and see.
Quote from: Bill on Jun 07, 2011, 09:12:01
A separate 4GB download for every machine isn't going to be popular with individuals/organisations using multiple Macs... I'll wait and see.
It may just be for release, but considering some Apple machines dont even have DVD drives I can see it being the way forward with Apple, if it is, I may consider moving away from Apple...I bought a second iMac and i7 Thunderbolt model and am on my third one as all have had issues, QC is bugging me, Bill. I can get so much more from Scan for the money and use Linux and Windows tbh and a nice HTC Sensation or even a Galaxy S 2 Android phone, so much more for less... and that's important in tough times. The iPhone will certainly go I think, and if I have more iMac issues so will the Mac.
Quote from: Bill on Jun 02, 2011, 11:40:23
For an OS I prefer to buy the DVD, so I hope it's also available via the usual route.
What, you meant you cannot download to from an app store when you have a blank HD drive? (See possible future problems there ;) )
Quote from: Technical Ben on Jun 07, 2011, 09:47:45
What, you meant you cannot download to from an app store when you have a blank HD drive? (See possible future problems there ;) )
I saw somewhere (can't find the link now) that you need to be running, and hence have bought, a copy of Snow Leopard in order to install Lion.
So it seems it's really an upgrade, just as SL was.
At the price I don't mind not being able to buy a DVD, but not being able to burn my own might be a bit of a bugger >:(
Quote from: Bill on Jun 07, 2011, 11:00:15
I saw somewhere (can't find the link now) that you need to be running, and hence have bought, a copy of Snow Leopard in order to install Lion.
So it seems it's really an upgrade, just as SL was.
At the price I don't mind not being able to buy a DVD, but not being able to burn my own might be a bit of a bugger >:(
But with SL you could do a clean install still, no so with Lion, saying that it does say to "upgrade on day one" which you would have to be nuts to do, so maybe they will release it on DVD and USB drives (airbooks use those) in the end anyway. Thats how I am now reading it.
£20.99 from the App Store (http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/?cid=CDM-EU-3320&cp=em-P0010535-173541&sr=em&Email_PageName=P0010535-173541&Email_OID=799cd952b3083c274d1179cda87c8956)
There's a lot of heat on MacRumours about the download-only aspect, the suspicion is that Apple are keeping quiet about other options for the moment. Nothing new there :shake:
Lion is heavily cloud based from what I've read so probably won't be available on a DVD except with maybe a new mac?
I'm still running the iMac on the SL upgrade 2 years later,so I'm not too worried.However if it creates a restore partition there may be an option for a clean install once the primary install has been done. I think Apple would like to get rid of the file storage sytem but that's great for most countries apart from us with medieval broadband speeds.
I wouldn't be that happy with all my data sitting on a software company's servers, I want to have the choice to who provides this service or to not use it.
I'd go along with that, plus I don't want BT between me and my data and nor do I fancy what it would do to my download allowance.
Something tells me I may not be an early adopter of Lion...
Only I want sitting on a server is my email and I may take up Zen's remote backup if I end up getting FTTP.
I'd still find it hard to trust a third party with my data.
It might be a roaring success :hide2:
its protected with Blowfish 256-bit encryption and only I have the key and they are a decent company, as are IDNet.
:hehe: :ithank:
Have you no pride? :whistle:
No, but he's got a bar. ;D
Quote from: Bill on Jun 07, 2011, 17:28:52
Have you no pride? :whistle:
In the mane, no.
Quote from: Glenn on Jun 07, 2011, 17:01:10
It might be a roaring success :hide2:
It could be a cat-astrophe.
That's a :grn: each. ;D
:hehe:
Quote from: Bill on Jun 07, 2011, 09:12:01
A separate 4GB download for every machine isn't going to be popular with individuals/organisations using multiple Macs... I'll wait and see.
Organizations use multiple macs? I thought Macs were only for the CEO so he felt important, while the IT team kept to Linux, and palmed of old Windows thin clients to the workers? >:D :whistle: ;) ;D :legpull:
Lot of our web designers at work use Macs and simply won't use Windows.
Looks like I'll be going on some Mac technical support training soon.
But they are web designers, so they don't count. :whistle:
(The web being made in a universal language/system means you can use any type of computer. Where as specialist programs may only be available for Mac, Windows or Linux, and not the other.)
http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/11piubpwiqubf06/event/
Just watched the keynote, Apple won't be supplying it on a DVD at all.
4gb flash card?
I just don't like being so limited to my system of delivery.
Even Steam allows me to backup all content to DVD/HDD. :dunno:
You don't really need a back up DVD of the OS because if you do need a new copy for any reason you will be able to download another copy free of charge as long as it's installed on a machine logged into your Apple account.
Another 4GB of bandwidth used... and however long it takes to d/l it as opposed to the few seconds to mount a DVD...
That's true Bill but in practice how often have you had to reuse the OS DVD.
I wonder if Remote Install will work with Lion if so you would think you would need a disc image or DVD for it to install.
If the recovery partition exists ( I suppose we'll find out on release) a further download may not be required.
http://www.applenewsblog.com/os-x-10-7-lion's-recovery-partition-changes-the-way-the-os-repairs-itself/
I can't find any mention of remote install on Apples web site so it would seem that option will be discontinued.
I guess if the recovery partition exists remote install is not required. :dunno:
I've got five Macs to update so I was hoping to do one download and then use remote install for the others. Looks like late nights or early mornings so I can use my off peak allowance ;)
Hmmmm is all I can say to that.
Quote from: lozcart on Jun 08, 2011, 18:52:46Looks like late nights or early mornings so I can use my off peak allowance ;)
At the moment my inclination is to stick with Snow Leopard.
Quote from: Bill on Jun 08, 2011, 19:18:42
At the moment my inclination is to stick with Snow Leopard.
I will update a laptop first which is only used for web browsing and emailing and see how it goes before I update the others.
Couple of useful links from a tbb member:
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/06/07/how-to-burn-a-lion-boot-disc/
and
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/06/08/how-to-install-lion-from-an-sd-card/
Thanks for the links Bill, it seems a backup DVD will be easy to burn. :thumb:
Apparently the Lion announcment included some pictures of the inside of the datacentre that will presumably support it along with iCloud
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/06/06/steve-jobs-provides-a-look-inside-the-idatacenter/
Interestingly the analysis says they are using HP ProLiant servers which of course are very reliable, but I have to ask why they are not using Xserves instead?
I think the Xserves are no more if not they probably cannot afford them
I also found something somewhere that says the activation relies on a serial number (presumably HDD serial) which changes when formatted on a PC unless it is coded into the image file shipped which those articles linked to by Bill refer to.
I have started to take a keen interest in this stuff because I should be getting some support training shortly as we are getting lots of queries.
I wonder about any company trying to sell it's own hardware, then it's own cloud, but running it's own cloud on some one else's hardware. :whistle:
When I can cut the middle man out and just get a HP system. [Need an "asking for trouble" smiley]
Quote from: Technical Ben on Jun 12, 2011, 16:56:34
I wonder about any company trying to sell it's own hardware, then it's own cloud, but running it's own cloud on some one else's hardware. :whistle:
If they can sell their own hardware for more than it costs to buy someone else's, then it makes sense ;D
I reckon the next versions of OS X and indeed Windows will run directly from each companies server farms so you will basically have a dumb terminal. (MS trying this with Office currently)
That of course means the vendor can charge what they like for service and support and those of us that make a living from troubleshooting will be out of work.
The justificiation for all this will be security as the OS will be permanently up to date.
Where I worked before retirement we had about 1000-1500 PC's all networked and running Microsoft OS's and applications, centrally cofigured.
The IT department wanted to run the system like that, replacing PCs with dumb terminals as they came up for replacement, with wondrous reports of the money and time to be saved, easier updating and configuration etc etc etc...
Then the bosses of the various departments started asking awkward questions like "What uptime can you guarantee?" and it all went quiet ;D ;D
When I stsrted secondary school it was like that too, all remote boot diskless workstations connected by BNC coax.
As it was configured in a ring we had to stagger the log ons otherwise there would be too much packet collision and the machines would just crash or bring the server down.
Will be interesting to see what happens long term but while they are trying out all this stuff I have to say I'm somewhat concerned about how I'll end up making my living
We did at least have fibre Ethernet, though iirc it was only 10Mbps from the building hub to each office. Can't remember what the backbone links ran at.
I see your point about earning a living, but I'm not sure how larger organisations will view it... it's got cost advantages, sure, but if they've got a few hundred highly paid staff who suddenly can't work for some hours because of a network failure it gets very expensive very quickly...
Not sure how companies and government departments (with data ranging from Confidential to Top Secret!) will view their data being held and processed on someone else's internet-accessible servers either.
The condems have apparently dropped the government cloud idea
http://www.itpro.co.uk/633898/updated-government-g-cloud-is-dead-says-hp
Its fair to say the big winners will be ISPs (who will rake in revenue from bandwidth use) and the big software companies.
I thought you'd typed condoms for a minute there. :whistle:
I don't really want to know whats going on in your head. ;D
Who mentioned my head? ;D
:tmi:
;D
Quote from: pctech on Jun 13, 2011, 17:17:58
Will be interesting to see what happens long term but while they are trying out all this stuff I have to say I'm somewhat concerned about how I'll end up making my living
Might be a good idea to brush up on your OSX/Linux/Unix skills :)
Apple seem to have dropped the idea of producing servers for the heavy lifting and accepted that market has gone to Linux/Unix on hardware such as HP Proliants. Lion will have the option of buying the server OS as a cheap add-on so it will be a no-brainer for workgroups and small business. Inevitably these will need some hand holding, so I would have thought there is/will be, a market in consultancy to those sort of businesses.
The Mac mini-server is quite a capable machine for small groups of users and if it came with hybrid drives and plenty of RAM, could be even more so. Mac-Mini Colo (http://macminicolo.net/)in the US have developed a viable business doing co-location solely with Mac mini servers. Somebody is trying the same idea in the UK (http://www.mythic-beasts.com/macminicolo.html) - no idea whether it's a branch of the US Co.
Might even be a money spinner for iDNet. I believe Simon's a Mac user so no doubt he already has the skills. :)
I think you are right Tac.
Well tomorrow the 14th July seems a likely date I've seen it mentioned in a variety of places I guess we'll find out later tomorrow in the UK. A 4Gb download is going to test the servers.
Chances are they are making use of Content Delivery Networks such as Akamai and Limelight. this means the download should in theory be quicker for the user and will shift the load off Apple's servers.
Quote from: Steve on Jul 13, 2011, 14:19:47
Well tomorrow the 14th July seems a likely date I've seen it mentioned in a variety of places I guess we'll find out later tomorrow in the UK. A 4Gb download is going to test the servers.
Hence I will wait to maybe October/November etc firstly see what goes wrong in the first few weeks, secondly never use a first release of any OS is a known good move, and thirdly not untill at least 10.7.2 is out and some bugs are squashed, also I may not actually want it.....
'tis why XP is still so popular.
I will happily place it on my Macbook Pro and see how it goes before I even think about installing it on the machines my wife uses. I did think about doing a dual boot but that's a nuisance having to install all the other related software again
FWIW I used SL from day one and the only problem I recall (senility is marvelous) was a lack of compatibility with my works Email Exchange Server- but Leopard didn't have that function anyway.
It's not going to cost a fortune and a clone of the hard drive will be taken prior to install.
I will do the same, try it on my Macbook first before installing it on the families main iMac.
Might give me chance to try out 'Apple remote desktop' as an install method for the other machines.
Sad I know but 9to5mac has said Lion will be available from 0100 tomorrow in the UK,I won't though be staying up.
What? You cannot schedule an update? :D
You have to pay,but it didn't happen anyway.
Steam have it sorted. You can pre-order. As long as the client is open, it will automatically update or download on release.
In fact, the auto updater is so good, it's difficult to turn it off at times. If you want to curtail your bandwidth usage at times.
Quote from: Technical Ben on Jul 14, 2011, 14:05:58
Steam have it sorted. You can pre-order. As long as the client is open, it will automatically update or download on release.
In fact, the auto updater is so good, it's difficult to turn it off at times. If you want to curtail your bandwidth usage at times.
Because you really want an auto update when you are not around of your operating system to a whole new version ::) ;D
As long as you have to set it rather than it be done automatically I can't see why not?
I tend to do a bit of preparation before a major OS update which has to be done manually i.e up to date disk clone,file integrity and permissions check. If I could guarantee the previous and the install was ok unattended I might think about it.
For all those waiting, SL, Leopard Panther and Tiger all came out on a Friday towards the end of the month , then Apple cleared off for the weekend ;D
Like steve I like to prepare, also I like to do some work after to make sure all is as it should be, nothing in the software world is truly perfect, nothing like waking up to a non booting computer...
A non booting body is worse. ;)
Indeed Rik, I know which I'd rather have.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 16, 2011, 08:04:48
A non booting body is worse. ;)
Our home looks like a hospital now with rails and bed mechanisms to help me up and emergence things in case I fall in the wetroom etc :sigh: so non booting lower body is sorted. I do need to boot cold callers though :evil:
;D
Looks like Wednesday this week , maybe?
Instructions to burn an install DVD http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/18/make-an-os-x-lion-boot-disc/
Lion could be the OS that makes windows/Linux even an abacus look attractive...this whole download install thing is to much. So is digging around in finder etc, I just built a machine at scan (due to tech reasons I had my iMac replaced so have two weeks to say yay of nay and since the thunderbolt macs came out BTO Macs QC have been awful, anyway I could for £300 less build a great Windows seven machine I can upgrade myself with a 1Gb MSI GTX 560 Ti GPU, the i7 2600k version of the chip I have, not the 2600s and still have 8GB memory, an 850 watt silent PSU for future upgrades a Gigabyte Z68 mobo, an extra internal 6Gbs Western digital green 1TB hard drive as well as a 6Gbs 1 TB WD Caviar black System drive (SSD still to expensive) two optical burners including one blu-ray hitting 24x and 10x respectively rather than 8x and a 24" Samsung LED monitor and have £200 in the bank....Its tempting.
So practically twice the PC for half the price? If I'd looked at it like that, I'd ditch windows for Linux and save £100 on top of it too. :D
Quote from: Gary on Jul 19, 2011, 07:44:33
Lion could be the OS that makes windows/Linux even an abacus look attractive...this whole download install thing is to much. So is digging around in finder etc, I just built a machine at scan (due to tech reasons I had my iMac replaced so have two weeks to say yay of nay and since the thunderbolt macs came out BTO Macs QC have been awful, anyway I could for £300 less build a great Windows seven machine I can upgrade myself with a 1Gb MSI GTX 560 Ti GPU, the i7 2600k version of the chip I have, not the 2600s and still have 8GB memory, an 850 watt silent PSU for future upgrades a Gigabyte Z68 mobo, an extra internal 6Gbs Western digital green 1TB hard drive as well as a 6Gbs 1 TB WD Caviar black System drive (SSD still to expensive) two optical burners including one blu-ray hitting 24x and 10x respectively rather than 8x and a 24" Samsung LED monitor and have £200 in the bank....Its tempting.
Sounds like an upgraded version of your previous Windows machine, not for me though I despair every time I get near the Windows 7 machines in the house everything just takes me so much longer. I don't play games so Windows is still a non starter for me.
Quote from: Gary on Jul 19, 2011, 07:44:33
this whole download install thing is to much. So is digging around in finder etc
I think you're over-reacting a touch to the description of the steps required, which are clearly written for a complete beginner.
They come down to:
1) Find the .dmg file
2) Copy it to the desktop
3) Open Disk Utility
4) Burn the .dmg file to DVD.
And steps 2) and 3) aren't actually necessary, all you have to do is right-click on the .dmg file... it's not exactly rocket science!
Quote from: Bill on Jul 19, 2011, 11:20:59
I think you're over-reacting a touch to the description of the steps required, which are clearly written for a complete beginner.
They come down to:
1) Find the .dmg file
2) Copy it to the desktop
3) Open Disk Utility
4) Burn the .dmg file to DVD.
And steps 2) and 3) aren't actually necessary, all you have to do is right-click on the .dmg file... it's not exactly rocket science!
No Bill, I just don't want to have to burn a copy of an OS that should come on disc, I don't want a 4gb download, Apple have said people can go to the Apple stores to download the new OS that is a 60 mile round trip form here for me and I as of now cant even get in hire car because the seats are to low, well thought out for physically disabled with limited mobility and slow lines (my line is okay but its a valid point) god help people living way out in the sticks on 1mb fixed lines or dial up. Apple really have decided what's best for me once to often. Computing is about having choices both hardware and software wise. I like to know what hard drive I get and what Optical drive is in the computer I get, not play guess the brand with a machine thats £xxxx Apple are very good at removing choice, maybe a little to good...
I think that's a valid point, Gary. Apple products are great for people who just want it to work out of the box, but perhaps not for those who like to tinker and have more options.
Quote from: Gary on Jul 20, 2011, 09:28:21
No Bill, I just don't want to have to burn a copy of an OS that should come on disc, I don't want a 4gb download
I agree up to a point- I'd be annoyed if they fiddled it so I
couldn't burn a copy to disc, but provided I've got that option I don't mind too much. I've probably downloaded a lot more than 4GB in updates since the last DVD version anyway, none of which are available on hard media and would have to be downloaded again if I re-installed so I don't entirely see your problem.
QuoteApple have said people can go to the Apple stores to download the new OS that is a 60 mile round trip form here for me and I as of now cant even get in hire car because the seats are to low, well thought out for physically disabled with limited mobility and slow lines (my line is okay but its a valid point) god help people living way out in the sticks on 1mb fixed lines or dial up.
That's a valid point I'll concede, but the update point still applies. For OS X, Windows or Linux.
I can't see what the hassle is to be honest,it's a 4 Gb download,so what ,stick with SL it may well be superior who knows or go back to Windows.
Since I've got to go away for a few days I will not have chance to update on release but look forward to Lion on my return.
The Apple store is closed at the moment...
And Lion is now available, for those feeling brave ;D
For customers who want a physical copy, Apple is offering a memory stick version for an extra £25. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14221817)
Quote from: Bill on Jul 20, 2011, 16:24:53
For customers who want a physical copy, Apple is offering a memory stick version for an extra £25. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14221817)
Now thats what I call a bloody cheek.
Or a Microsoft. ;)
To be fair to MS, they have an offer for students to download office for only 49.99 (provided they have a university e-mail address) and only charge a tenner for the backup DVD.
I do wonder what will be the state of play with new Macs though,
Expensive? ;D
It's likely I'll be getting my next system from Scan but will be double checking that I get a Windows DVD with it.
Quote from: pctech on Jul 20, 2011, 17:01:12
Now thats what I call a bloody cheek.
So don't use it.
But it's likely to be cheaper than the 60-mile round trip to an Apple store that Gary was using as an example.
QuoteEighteen months after Snow Leopard padded onto the scene, Apple's latest big cat boasts more than 250 new features. Many are minor tweaks: for example, you can now pause the screensaver slideshow and search the web from Spotlight.
But Lion also brings more significant changes, beginning with improved support for multitouch gestures with animated feedback. It brings more of the flavour of iOS to MacBook users, bouncing the screen when you scroll to the bottom, for example.
Lion finally brings a full-screen application view, too, hitherto a frustrating omission from OS X. Compatible applications can be switched to full-screen with a new maximise button at the top right of the window. To create a distraction-free environment, Lion even auto-hides the menu bar.
Read more: Apple OS X 10.7 Lion review | Software | Reviews | PC Pro http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/software/368803/apple-os-x-10-7-lion#ixzz1SfCYF5PV
Quote from: Bill on Jul 20, 2011, 17:26:49
So don't use it.
But it's likely to be cheaper than the 60-mile round trip to an Apple store that Gary was using as an example.
I'd never buy a Mac Bill.
The old argument that Apple hardware was in some way unique no longer holds water, what people are sold is an IBM PC clone in a flashy case for twice the price.
Now if Apple were to develop the CPU intellectual property they bought into a chip capable of supporting a desktop machine that blew away the performance of Intel in a benchmark test
Sorry, "full screen application view"? I've just about lost the will to live with all this "reinventing the wheel" business from MS and Apple. :bawl:
[edit]
I used both PC and Mac at college pctech. I would agree, the Macs with half the hardware (memory and CPU speed) ran faster or equal to PCs when it came to Photoshop. However, I would guess the Macs still had a cost over that of the PCs. Now? I have seen the PC surge in processing power, but not heard much when it comes to Macs. In fact, a lot of the previous software that a Mac was good for (video editing or photoshop) will become obsolete with "aps" and their new store. So as I'm not a casual user, even if I wanted one, I would need something else.
I do admit that Windows is rather bloated which is probably why the experience was quicker with less hardware.
Quote from: pctech on Jul 20, 2011, 17:04:55
To be fair to MS, they have an offer for students to download office for only 49.99 (provided they have a university e-mail address) and only charge a tenner for the backup DVD.
I do wonder what will be the state of play with new Macs though,
According to the T&C's (from the App Store), if it's pre-installed you can run one copy on one machine at any one time.
If you bought it from the App Store you can install and use it on any number of Macs that you own or control, personal and non-commercial use only and as an upgrade from SL.
You can make one back-up copy.
Sorry I can't copy/paste the actual wording, the damn thing won't let me select or print the text :mad:
Quote from: Steve on Jul 20, 2011, 10:11:26
I can't see what the hassle is to be honest,it's a 4 Gb download,so what ,stick with SL it may well be superior who knows or go back to Windows.
Since I've got to go away for a few days I will not have chance to update on release but look forward to Lion on my return.
If you can see the first day chaos on the apple forum with downloads failing or having to restart a download again well a lot can go wrong with a 4gb download it seems...physical media works best for big things like OS updates I think. If something goes wrong you won't have so spend several hours re-downloading because your download failed with an error code, it looks a right mess :( granted this is just first day chaos but still it would have been so much easier to have been able to order a copy that popped though the letterbox today or you could have grabbed in the week. I'm steering well clear of lion until .1 or .2 and until I can get physical media.
As far as staying with Apple, having 4 machines in a row with issues, hardware and cosmetic and all with so much debris behind the glass that when you wipe it it sticks to the inside because of the static, or there are smears and cuts in the LCD panel...and this is better hardware? Yes its a very fast machine, but at a price, and one I think is to high now at least in theory scan will build a great machine for that price and it will be tested way better than any iMac ever will. I will say though the idea of going back to windows with a main machine does fill me with dread as OS X just works so well and the lack of clutter compared with a windows machine is like night and day.
Quote from: Technical Ben on Jul 20, 2011, 17:45:06
I have seen the PC surge in processing power, but not heard much when it comes to Macs.
The new i5 and i7 sandybridge Macs are lightning fast with massive geekbench scores and when windows is installed will boot faster than alot of windows machines with much more powerful hardware, iMacs for instance are now more powerful than some Mac Pros. As to software becoming obsolete I doubt that will happen, its just the way Apple herd you into downloads, which for small things is great, you buy it and it downloads and installs itself, so simple and very elegantly done, as I have said for OS update... I think thats pushing things it a bit.
I did read somewhere whether is correct or not :dunno: that you must copy the Lion .dmg before you install on the machine otherwise it's deleted afterwards.
It is Steve, when Lion is downloaded quit the installer and locate the update which should be in the Applications folder, right click the file and select open package, locate the .dmg which is in one of the folders and copy it to the desktop, right click the .dmg and burn to a DVD.
Garry, yet for the price I still can't justify it. For example, I went AMD over Intel, as I got a quad core for a much lower price. Unless I'm comparing apples for oranges. In which case all the benchmarks in the world mean nothing if real world use and speed differs from the benchmarks.
Most my software I use is free opensource, free shareware or free indy when it comes to Graphics. Then there are PC games. Even the little £5 ones I get, would not work in most instances. So the savings from not needing to purchase a separate Xbox (most games get ported to pc) or PS3, plus the free software as I cannot afford Adobe, is far too great a draw for me.
Don't be tempted to interrupt the Lion download. I just installed the other software updates and the buggers gone back to square one following a restart, thank goodness I hadn't got very far. ;D
Well that was all fairly painless so far,30 minute install time plus a period of spotlight indexing after first boot slows things down a tad. Everything's working as far as I can tell,need to get the hang of the new trackpad gestures.
Quote from: Steve on Jul 21, 2011, 07:35:03
Well that was all fairly painless so far,30 minute install time plus a period of spotlight indexing after first boot slows things down a tad. Everything's working as far as I can tell,need to get the hang of the new trackpad gestures.
No issues with mail or smart drive status? Noticed a lot of iMacs with smart drive problems using lion, and mail not working. I have facetime and seems to be issues with that as well for some, really think its just worth staying with SL until a point update, bleeding edge tech is not a place I like, not for any computer, to old for that these days. Its interesting to see it work well on someone's iMac though. Did you keep a backyp or sl on time machine as a just in case?
Quote from: Technical Ben on Jul 20, 2011, 22:09:49
Garry, yet for the price I still can't justify it. For example, I went AMD over Intel, as I got a quad core for a much lower price. Unless I'm comparing apples for oranges. In which case all the benchmarks in the world mean nothing if real world use and speed differs from the benchmarks.
Most my software I use is free opensource, free shareware or free indy when it comes to Graphics. Then there are PC games. Even the little £5 ones I get, would not work in most instances. So the savings from not needing to purchase a separate Xbox (most games get ported to pc) or PS3, plus the free software as I cannot afford Adobe, is far too great a draw for me.
Its down to personal usage, I just use pages on the iMac not any office style app, I dont play games on the machine, and the quad core i7 2600s works very well everything opens fast and I can pretty much fill my destktop with open apps with no slowdown, but I just have simple needs and after being really angrty with the QC of iMacs Apple are pulling out stops for me (again) so CS is something I will say is second to none. I still have time to swap to windows, Justina says I will regret it, she may be right I am used to the machine just working as is. I only game on a console gaming on a pc is not my cup of tea, even if I bought the windows machine the sandybridge is so much faster than the AMD quads that the extra cost would be worth it. It all varies on what you use a computer for, I use pixlelmator for photo work not adobe stuff so all runs in harmony, for me its the hardware issue that get to me with iMacs, and this stupid way of upgrading, tbh if I keep the retched thing I'll update with the memory stick when that comes out in August.
I see your point, its just what you do with your machine and what your needs are that dictate if a Mac works for you or not.
Steve how about Flash? There are some issues with Flash player and 10.7 as Adobe have not updated for 10.7 yet, its in the hugs list of what does not work Adobe wise for 10.7 this includes bugs with the Java runtime you can install with 10.7 not being recognised by some programs it appears.
It's on my MBP Gary, its not touching my iMac yet as that's a workhorse for my wife. Seriously no issues so far once the indexing had finished,mail's working including exchange server, FaceTime don't use so can't comment. Love the 2 finger swipe between pages in Safari.
I took a clone of the HDD before installed, I also moved a copy of the Lion install dmg to another folder.
Quote from: Steve on Jul 21, 2011, 08:03:01
It's on my MBP Gary, its not touching my iMac yet as that's a workhorse for my wife. Seriously no issues so far once the indexing had finished,mail's working including exchange server, FaceTime don't use so can't comment. Love the 2 finger swipe between pages in Safari.
I took a clone of the HDD before installed, I also moved a copy of the Lion install dmg to another folder.
Thanks Steve, I'll wait for point update I think for safety. Also for Adobe it get Flash working without hogging cpu on Macs ::) although that seems an oxymoron, Justina is in the middle of looking for new jobs online so messing up is not a good move, thanks for your update experience though :fingers:
Quote from: Gary on Jul 21, 2011, 07:59:11
Steve how about Flash? There are some issues with Flash player and 10.7 as Adobe have not updated for 10.7 yet, its in the hugs list of what does not work Adobe wise for 10.7 this includes bugs with the Java runtime you can install with 10.7 not being recognised by some programs it appears.
I've not tried flash yet and Evernote seems to working following the java runtime install. I've got a pretty standard MBP with no previous hacks.
Quote from: Steve on Jul 21, 2011, 08:07:05
I've not tried flash yet and Evernote seems to working following the java runtime install. I've got a pretty standard MBP with no previous hacks.
My newest iMac only has FF on it as a non Mac program so all should be ok, but I'll wait a) to see if we can get it cleaned up b) till a point release just for safety .1 or .2 but not before. I did see some people having issues with using a burned dmg due to serial number checking or something but yesterday was chaos with people trying to grab the damn update, typical server overload and probably peeps updating Macs with to many hacks, also it is early days for Lion, bound to be some issues. I wonder if Bill took the plunge?
I know some people have issues but some I despair off it's as if the deliberately try to cock things up and then complain. I think certainly with this release a week or two should show up any consistent issues so at least then you shouldn't get any surprises. I don't worry what I install on the MBP it doesn't matter it's not critical
Duh. I'm stupid. I just realised thy the mem stick costs more. The download requires Snow Leopard. So it's only an upgrade price. The mem stick is a full install is it not? Hmmm. Although, if the mem stick is only an upgrade too, then it's not really fair.
I wasn't going to upgrade, but I couldn't stop myself!!! If you have a fast internet connection and downloading GBs of data isn't going to mess with your monthly allowance, then it's a breeze! After the download has finished DON'T INSTALL! Find the download, copy the disk image. Make a bootable Lion disk from this image. Installation was about 30 minutes. After the first reboot spotlight does some indexing (takes quite awhile). I changed the scroll back to how it functioned in SL. Made a couple of tweeks to folder views - Status bar at bottom.
Hardly had any time to play yet, but not sure about Launchpad. It's the Dock wrapped in iOS clothes - but you can only delete apps from the App store, so all the other icons that have been added you can't remove - V. BAD!. Java is an additional download. That's it for now, no obvious problems (yet!)
Steve
Quote from: Technical Ben on Jul 21, 2011, 09:17:13
Duh. I'm stupid. I just realised thy the mem stick costs more. The download requires Snow Leopard. So it's only an upgrade price. The mem stick is a full install is it not? Hmmm. Although, if the mem stick is only an upgrade too, then it's not really fair.
From what I know the Memory stick is a full install.
Quote from: Technical Ben on Jul 21, 2011, 09:17:13
Duh. I'm stupid. I just realised thy the mem stick costs more. The download requires Snow Leopard. So it's only an upgrade price. The mem stick is a full install is it not? Hmmm. Although, if the mem stick is only an upgrade too, then it's not really fair.
I'm pretty sure the Lion you get from the app store and the one you will be able to buy on a mem stick are the same. There is no upgrade version. You need SL to run the App Store.
Quote from: Stevescat on Jul 21, 2011, 09:28:09
I wasn't going to upgrade, but I couldn't stop myself!!! If you have a fast internet connection and downloading GBs of data isn't going to mess with your monthly allowance, then it's a breeze! After the download has finished DON'T INSTALL! Find the download, copy the disk image. Make a bootable Lion disk from this image. Installation was about 30 minutes. After the first reboot spotlight does some indexing (takes quite awhile). I changed the scroll back to how it functioned in SL. Made a couple of tweeks to folder views - Status bar at bottom.
Hardly had any time to play yet, but not sure about Launchpad. It's the Dock wrapped in iOS clothes - but you can only delete apps from the App store, so all the other icons that have been added you can't remove - V. BAD!. Java is an additional download. That's it for now, no obvious problems (yet!)
Steve
My iMac has facetime built in, it came with it (10.6.7, i7 Thunderbolt iMac) Do you use facetime? I still think it will be prudent to wait for 10.7.1. or.2 since its such a big update with full ASLR and sandboxing, so far security looks very good http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/21/mac_os_x_lion_security/ which is great, but also there are going to be bugs and waiting for a few to be ironed out I think is a good move.
Quote from: Stevescat on Jul 21, 2011, 09:35:53
I'm pretty sure the Lion you get from the app store and the one you will be able to buy on a mem stick are the same. There is no upgrade version. You need SL to run the App Store.
Who knows but getting hold of SL maybe hard for those wanting to go to Lion so a full installer would make sense for Apple to release.
From what I've read Gary I think I could use my Lion bootable disk I created, and install Lion on a machine with Leopard only (although this breaks the letter of the law because Apple says you need a SL license).
Steve
Quote from: Stevescat on Jul 21, 2011, 09:47:45
From what I've read Gary I think I could use my Lion bootable disk I created, and install Lion on a machine with Leopard only (although this breaks the letter of the law because Apple says you need a SL license).
Steve
Cheers for that bit of info, Steve. :thumb:
My first niggle Launchpad (http://www.wegotserved.com/2011/07/21/osx-107-lion-launchpad-broken-windows-home-server-2011-launchpad/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wegotserved_rss+%28We+Got+Served%29)
Quote from: Gary on Jul 21, 2011, 09:34:24
From what I know the Memory stick is a full install.
Full install, but I guess it's still an "upgrade" licence, as you cannot get a mac without OS installed. ;)
You can make one though ;)
Quote from: Gary on Jul 21, 2011, 07:55:57
...and the quad core i7 2600s works very well everything opens fast and I can pretty much fill my destktop with open apps with no slowdown...
I keep forgetting that iMacs use intel chips now. :P :red: Still, it would ahve cost me more than £650. ;D
Oh Glenn, I think the days of Hackintosh are limited though...
[edit]
Actually, the MacMini would probably not be too bad. It's still a couple hundred more though when adding a display etc. It has the spec, and the size is excellent. Not sure on the GPU though. However, after I broke a usb port on my laptop, I decided never to get a fully integrated computing device again for general use. I had no way of repairing the part, without replacing the entire laptop. The main reason for my PC is replaceable components, and software and games that don't port to Mac.
Anyone know if Lion is being preinstalled on new Macs now?
It is Mitch, even if you did get a Mac from old stock with Snow Leopard installed you can get a free download by contacting Apple.
Thanks, only asking as a customer was asking about software compatibility.
Only intel Apps are compatible with Lion ,universal Apps which required Rosetta on SL will not run.
Nice. A universal language that is not. ;D
Quote from: Steve on Jul 21, 2011, 17:18:44
Only intel Apps are compatible with Lion ,universal Apps which required Rosetta on SL will not run.
Thanks Steve, back to the devs I think as when it comes to Macs at the moment I know nothing, I come from Barthelona" ;D
I think you cannot even install MacOffice 2008 on Lion,it has to be installed on SL first and then upgrade to Lion as the installer is Rosetta based.
And they complained about lack of backward compatibility in Windows....
One million downloads in 24 hours @3.7Gb, that's more than 3.5 petabytes of data that to me is an impressive performance.
And shows why the Internet appeared to be straining a little.
Quote from: pctech on Jul 21, 2011, 23:01:46
And they complained about lack of backward compatibility in Windows....
I think you've got to draw the line somewhere otherwise you risk not been able to develop and release the OS you want.
Quote from: Lance on Jul 21, 2011, 23:16:28
And shows why the Internet appeared to be straining a little.
Probably only BT's part ;D
As I say Apple will have no doubt made use of Akamai to accelerate the delivery speed to users and shift the load from its own servers as it does with its website.
Quote from: Steve on Jul 22, 2011, 09:27:53
I think you've got to draw the line somewhere otherwise you risk not been able to develop and release the OS you want.
Absolutely.
Our calls at work didn't half spike though when Vista came out.
Quote from: Steve on Jul 21, 2011, 23:11:23
One million downloads in 24 hours @3.7Gb, that's more than 3.5 petabytes of data that to me is an impressive performance.
Or 1 3.7Gb download stuck in a request/fail loop. :whistle: ;)
I downloaded Lion late last night onto my iMac, I've not installed it yet on that computer but have made a DVD of the installer and are currently running this on to my MacBook. It's all going to plan at the moment and say 30 mins left, will report back later on how it goes.
Everything went to plan, so I can confirm you can install ok from a DVD copy of the installer. I'm impressed with the new OS so far, no problems to report.
Gary, I've checked on FaceTime and it works just fine.
MacBook Pro 2.93MHz
500GB 7200rpm HD
8GB 1333MHz memory
Well did the download took some on my time 2meg line but got there no prob.
Ran all the updates first, then a Time m/c backup and finally ran Diskwarrior 4.3 then ran a dvd installer burn then ran update.
Absolutely no prob to report all working OK, did think it was a tad slow start with but once the first start up & Time m/c back up done much quicker, I do like the trackpad gestures in Safari.
Mission control well not using it a lot I probably will use it but not much yet.
Web pages do seem to load much quicker as well and I do like the layout after finding my way round system
Been using Lion for a few days now as a casual user at home. I have to say it's feeling more like an old friend than an alien every day. Mission control has had a lot of negatives, but for me, having Chrome, iTunes, Twitter and mail in separate desktops and using the two-finger swipe to slide from one to another is brilliant! I think someone asked if Facetime works in Lion - I can confirm that it does. If I read once more that 'Microsoft Office 2004 doesn't work anymore after installing Lion', I think I'll explode!
Steve
My initial impression before going away was,yes I like the gestures and and the two swipe between webpages and desktops I didn't get much further before being dragged away to enjoy myself.
I'm definitely waiting till Flash player and hardware acceleration work again, as of now Flash does not work with 10.7 API's seen it on a friends Mac, what is with the pretend leather on iCal must say I don't like the visual meshing on IOS and OSX that much.
El Reg (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/21/adobe_lion_incompatibilities/) has published a list of Adobe woes. Ironically, it's now easier to run Adobe's flagship programs on a PC than a Mac - unheard of when I was working.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 23, 2011, 10:29:21
El Reg (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/21/adobe_lion_incompatibilities/) has published a list of Adobe woes. Ironically, it's now easier to run Adobe's flagship programs on a PC than a Mac - unheard of when I was working.
Apple and Adobe play games at the cost of the user, Apple must have given I would have thought the relevant API's to Adobe for things like Flash to work without the CPU running crazy, but who knows Apple play games too, the whole thing is a mess. TBH if Steve Jobs were to step down things might ruin more smoothly between both companies. His hatred of flash is a little OTT to say the least.
He does have a bee in his bonnet, doesn't he.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 23, 2011, 10:37:06
He does have a bee in his bonnet, doesn't he.
One that I think needs to go, the iPad is a good tablet but if OS X can run Flash and Android can, a dual core ipad should be able to.
Quote from: Gary on Jul 23, 2011, 10:52:30
One that I think needs to go, the iPad is a good tablet but if OS X can run Flash and Android can, a dual core ipad should be able to.
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
On a side note, I'm loving Lion. Has a few bits missing from SL but not the end of the world.
Quote from: TheMonkey on Jul 25, 2011, 13:27:16
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
The church of Jobs speaks...Safari isn't exactly the safest browser in the world...Well it seems as if I may have no choice but to have Lion as a new iMac is winging its way to me for the 2nd August....time will tell, increased security is a good thing, but natural scrolling on pc...I don't use the ' trackpad addition for the iMac so will see how it is with just a mouse.
10.7.2 is on the way http://www.reghardware.com/2011/07/25/apple_seeds_lion_update/
Quote from: TheMonkey on Jul 25, 2011, 13:27:16
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
On a side note, I'm loving Lion. Has a few bits missing from SL but not the end of the world.
So for you at least its been a roaring success then
;D
Quote from: Gary on Jul 26, 2011, 09:22:49
The church of Jobs speaks...Safari isn't exactly the safest browser in the world...Well it seems as if I may have no choice but to have Lion as a new iMac is winging its way to me for the 2nd August....time will tell, increased security is a good thing, but natural scrolling on pc...I don't use the ' trackpad addition for the iMac so will see how it is with just a mouse.
Blimey Gary, you really have become cynical/seen the light.
Quote from: pctech on Jul 26, 2011, 09:25:46
So for you at least its been a roaring success then
;D
That's the mane thing :P
Quote from: pctech on Jul 26, 2011, 09:25:46
So for you at least its been a roaring success then
;D
I think in general its been a good update for OS X, Mitch. Better security etc, its just its changed what people were used to, and change is something people begrudge as you get set in your ways.
I think I'd like to try the magic trackpad with an iMac and Lion.
Some people have objected to the appearance (the skins) of some apps, iCal and Address book in particular- fix here:
http://macnix.blogspot.com/2011/07/change-mac-os-x-107-lion-ical-skin-to.html
Quote from: Bill on Jul 26, 2011, 09:27:59
That's the mane thing :P
It's too early for me to try to counter that.
Some copies of Lion have proved to be very expensive :eek4:
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/27/apple-charges-customer-122-times-for-lion/
:oops:
Quote from: Steve on Jul 26, 2011, 09:34:11
I think I'd like to try the magic trackpad with an iMac and Lion.
I got the Magic Trackpad of the Mrs last year and i have to say i wasn't sure how they could better it with Lion but the did.
I had to change the direction of the scrolling back to normal though otherwise the other half would have thrown it out the window :slap:
The direction of the scrolling does seem to be a female issue IMO. I'm quite happy with the change in direction from SL it seems much more logical for me. My wife on the other hand couldn't cope so I've unticked her box so to speak.
I would not suggest there is such a divide. More what your use to, your use to. You could argue the other side of the species is less adaptable. But try giving a bloke two things to do at once, and you're soon proved wrong.
Quote from: Steve on Jul 28, 2011, 14:42:36
The direction of the scrolling does seem to be a female issue IMO. I'm quite happy with the change in direction from SL it seems much more logical for me. My wife on the other hand couldn't cope so I've unticked her box so to speak.
haha exactly the issue. She doesn't like change. It was hard enough moving her from windows to osx. I managed to get to her better side advising that the computer desk will have a lot less clutter and she was sold. ;D
I've just deleted 4 emails I shouldn't have whilst on Skype to my son in the US, of course I can multi task.
Quote from: TheMonkey on Jul 28, 2011, 15:14:43
haha exactly the issue. She doesn't like change. It was hard enough moving her from windows to osx. I managed to get to her better side advising that the computer desk will have a lot less clutter and she was sold. ;D
Your doing ok. On the house moving program on TV yesterday, the wife would not change from wooden windows to plastic ones. Now that's expensive taste!
Quote from: Technical Ben on Jul 28, 2011, 15:57:43
Your doing ok. On the house moving program on TV yesterday, the wife would not change from wooden windows to plastic ones. Now that's expensive taste!
Ouch! I'm guessing the man caved ;D
New iMac arrived with Lion on it, seems as fast as snow leopard tbh took a little while to get used to though but so far I like it, I have avoided installing flash for the time being until they get their act together/or Apple gets its act together on getting that to work properly, trying to download the current flash player it calls it a 'beta' for 10.7 :eyebrow:
Hope this one turns out OK :fingers:
Launchpad Control hides unwanted icons
http://chaosspace.de/dev/launchpad-control-hide-apps-from-launchpad/
Quote from: Steve on Jul 30, 2011, 08:07:14
Hope this one turns out OK :fingers:
Launchpad Control hides unwanted icons
http://chaosspace.de/dev/launchpad-control-hide-apps-from-launchpad/
I must admit Launchpad is not my cup of tea, I prefered the application folder and less of the iphone/iPad look but I'm sticking with it as I am its easier to go with new tech than fight against it. I find the natural scrolling very easy though, guess that's from iPhone use.