Hi people and Happy Easter
I have been suffering an extremely slow broadband connection - eventually yesterday I could not get on the internet at all. I have tried today and though I can just about get on, it is horribly slow and it is hit and miss to whether or not I can access a web site as it tends to time out. I have tried www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk and that (once I can actually start the test) is stuck at 16kb!
I am a faithful IDNet broadband customer. :angel:
Does anyone know of any problems/maintenance issues with BT in my area? I am on the Tugby exchange in Leicester.
Any help greatly appreciated - I usually get in the region of 6-7mbps
BTW - I cannot check my router stats as for some reason I cannot get into it using my account details and I am worried about resetting it and having to set it up all over again from factory defaults, especially as it is an inherited hand-off from my son (Netgear DG834G v4) with default Virgin settings.
Not aware of any current issues BT or otherwise. The default log in for a Netgear router is -- username = admin, password = password (older models = 1234)
Any chance you can get a BT Speedtest http://speedtester.bt.com/
Hi Steve, bear with me - It's taken 4 minutes for me to get this box open to reply! - I can manage to get on to the National Lottery site as an example, but it takes several minutes to actually load the page and then when trying to get into another part of the page I cannot load it at all. I will try BT checker, but I am doubting I will be able to do it.
I really, really need my internet today. What can have happened to cause this? All my lights on the router are green, my connections are showing Ok.
I cannot access the router using either my IDNet account details nor by using the default router details (virgin/password) or any other details such as admin/password.
I will plug in my LAN cable and make a direct connection to the router and try and access it again (not holding out much hope). I will try BT checker now as well. Hopefully, I will be able to get back here otherwise I will have to set up a dial-up connection.
Without the information sadly your going to struggle to diagnose it. You could try leaving a message with support as you have virtually no connection. My suggestion would be to change the filters and router if only to get the router stats and check the routers not failing.
Sorry to raise another post, but I just can't reply to the other one due to my connection, it is a miracle I can get on to do this, it has taken me ages to get this page up.
I have left two phone calls with support, but I am assuming that as I am a mere residential customer (I have my line rental and broadband with IDNet) that I have no choice but to wait until Tuesday before anything will be done to address this issue for me - I am suspecting BT at the moment, but of course, it would have been good if someone at IDNet could at least check things their end to make sure it isn't an IDNet issue...
I have already lost the whole of this day so far trying everything I possibly can:
1. Connected via LAN cable directly to router (wireless switched off).
2. Totally disconnected the router from power supply for nearly an hour.
3. Changed the filter.
4. There is no point in taking off face plate as I only have one phone (I have tried to connect with the phone unplugged) and there is no other socket (test) behind the face place anyway.
5. I tried to do a broadband speed check this morning, but it got stuck at 16kbps.
6. I have tried to do a BT speed test - it eventually let me get as far as inputting my telephone number, but after 40 minutes it still had not run the test.
I have been able to get on to my router in the end. Here are the stats:
WAN PORT
PPPoA
TxPkts 21697
RxPkts 25770
Collisions 0
Tx B/s 57
Rx B/s 435
Up Time 15:53:12
LAN PORT
10M/100M
TxPkts 173208
RxPkts 1255
Collisions 0
Tx B/s 38
Rx B/s 0
Up Time 213:03:33
WLAN
11M/54/M/270/M
TxPkts 1587108
RxPkts 1224361
Tx B/s 1844
Rx B/s 645
Up Time 213:03:25
ADSL Link
Connection Speed:
Downstream 8128 kbps
Upstream 448 kbps
Line Attenuation:
Downstream 45.0 db
Upstream 23.5 db
Noise Margin:
Downstream 6.1 db
Upstream 19.0 db
I really, really need my internet connection :bawl: It is going to be unbearable not to have it for the next two days.
Am I going to have to wait until IDNet Support is back to normal opening hours before I can get any assistance?
Well the sync's ok, the margins ok I think it's either the router or the line/exchange that's faulty. Any chance you can borrow a router to exclude it as the cause.
Because of the way BT now operate with ISPs, they will only be able to ask BT whether your line is ok or not and I guess Openreach aren't working this Easter either.
Looks like someone else is complaining of lack of support 'out of hours'. This is a recent thread dealing with the subject:
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,25465.msg606416.html#msg606416
It is clearly a serious problem that should be addressed, I think that IDNet are losing (or at least upsetting) customers who feel that this is a major concern. Several forums that I visit air this as a concern when considering an ISP, in particular IDNet. It is so simple to brush this under the carpet and say "We knew this when we signed up" but many current and prospective customers perceive this is a bar to signing up or moving to another provider.
We know we have a great service but, if we lost our service on Good Friday and could not get a response for several days, how would we feel? :eek4:
Worth thinking about? ;)
I have been trying for around two hours to get this reply posted!! :rant2:
I do not have a spare router. I don't feel it is a router problem, I think this is a problem with IDNet or BT.
I don't know if this is significant or not, but pings result in intermittent packet losses of between 25-50% and time out errors, but I guess that is to be expected with this issue.
I have been able to load google mail by going in using basic html view and I was able to send an email to IDNet Support (eventually) and to my son and he replied to it and I got that OK - what does this indicate do you think?
I do feel abandoned somewhat as it is looking like I am not going to receive any support at all for this issue until the holidays are over and in the meantime I am left without a usable internet connection until who-knows-when, and what about next week's bank holdiay weekend? This has stopped me doing my study, stopped me shopping for a wedding outfit for my son's wedding, etc, etc.
I have to say I am pretty disappointed in the lack of support, other than what is coming out of this forum, which isn't much - no offence meant to you or anyone else on this forum, but there is a limit to what you can do on here when this is clearly a system problem of some sort that needs checking out by IDNet and/or BT.
My day has been ruined today trying to find a solution to this issue and I have tomorrow to look forward to without my internet and then disruption when I am back at work Tuesday trying to sort it out....
I would have thought that some kind of support would be forthcoming when I am practically without my internet. If I can't get support from IDNet when I need it then what chance do I have...
I have lost the will to live with this today, but I will still live in hope that someone will try and do something to help me. Can't someone at the very least check things out at IDNet's end? Is there no way IDNet can contact BT?
By the way - I have even tried to see if I can get in touch with BT myself to see if they can test my line, but all that happened is that I went through to an Indian call centre - there is just no way I can go through that awful, long-winded and useless first-line support stuff and I hung up as soon as I realised I was talking to an Indian lady, no offence meant to her.
I know how I feel WDForte - let down and abandoned.
I have just made a strange discovery - I have found that when in google mail (can only get in when selecting basic html mode) and clicking on the link in the email that says a reply has been posted, I have come to this page and been able to read your reply AND I have been able to click on the reply button and this editor has loaded almost straight away so that I can reply. Trying to get here and read posts or reply to posts has been near impossible going via the idnetters' web site. It took me eons of time earlier to make my last whinging post. I am afraid I am going to continue to whine and complain on here and in writing until something gets done.
Yes, I know what the support hours are, however, there is a limit to what one can and should tolerate. I put up with the slow speed yesterday and I put up with not being able to access the net at all last night and I would put up with some speed reduction, but I expect someone to sort out a problem such as this where I cannot do anything, not even check the National lottery site or Internet banking (only google mail in basic html mode is accessible) when it has gone on for an extended period of time and still continues. So far, for me this has gone on for a whole day and a half. I am going to be very annoyed if someone does not address this issue soon.
Please can someone on this forum who has got inroads into IDNet support let them know the frustration and annoyance that this is causing and ask that they get it sorted very soon?
Tina this support forum is independent of IDNet, the admin of this forum are volunteers, customers not employees, we have no direct line to IDNet support. I can fully understand your frustration and anger but I don't see what else as a forum we can do. I suggest you direct your frustration to support when you can contact them.
I think it shows that if Broadband is critical to oneself that you have to have a backup arrangement whether that be a 3g dongle or the business enhanced care package. As I've said elsewhere if support were open at the weekend and you have a line/exchange issue would you be any happier when they tell you that BT will do nothing until after the weekend/bankholiday? I expect not.
Pardon me, but I am not having a go at admin on this forum.
I have known mods on this forum contact IDNet support in the past so I do not think it is such an outlandish view to think that someone on this forum might be able to contact support out of hours, but now you have said this is not the case then of course I will no longer think that.
I will be directing my views towards IDNet, that goes without saying.
I do not agree with your view that I should pay money I cannot afford to take out the options you mention. I have already stated that I would tolerate site down (I have done so already on a few occasions) and that I would put up with some degredation in speed, (I have done so on several occasions) however, the fact remains that I am paying for a service and whether bank holiday or weekend I expect a measure of support when the problem has now gone on for a day and a half and is looking probable that it may go on all day tomorrow as well.
I do not feel I should have to pay a premium rate to ensure that I can get an internet connection at bank holidays and weekends. Like I said, if it were merely slower speeds or it had gone down for a few hours, I would just put up and shut up, but it is down for an unacceptable length of time and all I can do successfully on the net is post on this forum via google mail in basic html mode.
If IDNet support were open and they had checked the problem was not their end leaving the distinct possibility that BT were behind the fault, then yes, I would be happier to know that at least IDNet had ruled out a problem their end and I would accept that there was nothing that could be done if it is some kind of line fault (my phone works fine, the connections both wireless and LAN work fine, the router stats are fine) where BT were controlling the outcome, but, as it stands, there is no-one to check things are OK at IDNet's end.
I accept that on this forum there is nothing else you can do given the nature of the problem, but I would have thought I should be able to air my views still.
I can't see any report of you 'phoning IDNet and leaving an approriate message TMD.
Phone number is 0800 0267 237 or 0800 7012 000. I feel fairly confident that IDNet will ring you back concerning this problem.
There are occasions when forum admins i.e Rik have contacted support on behalf of a customer but this to my knowledge has occurred only during support hours. In this instance both myself and another admin have emailed support earlier today referring them to this thread.
Quote from: sobranie on Apr 24, 2011, 21:19:16
I can't see any report of you 'phoning IDNet and leaving an approriate message TMD.
Phone number is 0800 0267 237 or 0800 7012 000. I feel fairly confident that IDNet will ring you back concerning this problem.
Excuse me? Are you calling me a liar? I can assure you I have left two messages regarding this issue on 0800 7012 000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tina, there is no mention of you having phoned IDNet in the thread, Sobraine is only trying to be helpful and I feel your response towards him is unwarranted.
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 24, 2011, 22:00:11
Excuse me? Are you calling me a liar? I can assure you I have left two messages regarding this issue on 0800 7012 000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry TMD, missed a bit of one of your posts. 4th thread down.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 24, 2011, 22:07:06
Tina, there is no mention of you having phoned IDNet in the thread, Sobraine is only trying to be helpful and I feel your response towards him is unwarranted.
Oh for goodness sake!
It is indeed in my thread above, here is part of it:
=================================================
I have left two phone calls with support, but I am assuming that as I am a mere residential customer (I have my line rental and broadband with IDNet) that I have no choice but to wait until Tuesday before anything will be done to address this issue for me - I am suspecting BT at the moment, but of course, it would have been good if someone at IDNet could at least check things their end to make sure it isn't an IDNet issue...
I have already lost the whole of this day so far trying everything I possibly can:
1. Connected via LAN cable directly to router (wireless switched off).
2. Totally disconnected the router from power supply for nearly an hour.
3. Changed the filter.
4. There is no point in taking off face plate as I only have one phone (I have tried to connect with the phone unplugged) and there is no other socket (test) behind the face place anyway.
5. I tried to do a broadband speed check this morning, but it got stuck at 16kbps.
I missed it too but my point still stands.
Quote from: sobranie on Apr 24, 2011, 22:08:44
Sorry TMD, missed a bit of one of your posts. 4th thread down.
No probs. :)
I have lost the will to live now and so I am going to come off here and try and forget about this issue (until tomorrow). Anything anyone can do to enlist some support will be appreciated.
I am not going to be a happy bunny at all if I have to go another day without internet and end up having to sort this in work hours after what will be 2.5 days without internet access.
I am not having a go at anyone on this forum, but it is a natural inclination to sound off on here when one has suffered this level of frustration and wasted time.
Like I said before, a few hours I can tolerate even a day, but I think it is fast becoming a totally unacceptable level of service.
My view is that where there is such a holiday as this - four days long, then support should have been available for at least a day over these four days. This break and next week's are longer than we can expect over Christmas.
I hope that IDNet will make sure there is some support for the impending next four days holiday.
I will be making my feelings known to IDNet tomorrow - more of
MY precious holiday time that will have to be spent on this issue when I would rather be doing other things and not getting stressed over this issue.
T_M_D has very valid grievances.
Namely Idnet's lack of customer support should you have a problem with your connection outside "office hours".
Every time I see a reference to Idnet's wonderful customer support I'm somewhat surprised as a result.
Personally I've received both excellent support and some absolutely shocking and rude support from Idnet but what sticks in my throat is the problems I had at Christmas time when support shut down completely for over two weeks. I bet if I failed to make a payment in those two weeks it would be acted upon quite quickly!! :dunno:
Quote from: .Griff. on Apr 24, 2011, 23:23:39
T_M_D has very valid grievances.
Namely Idnet's lack of customer support should you have a problem with your connection outside "office hours".
Every time I see a reference to Idnet's wonderful customer support I'm somewhat surprised as a result.
Personally I've received both excellent support and some absolutely shocking and rude support from Idnet but what sticks in my throat is the problems I had at Christmas time when support shut down completely for over two weeks. I bet if I failed to make a payment in those two weeks it would be acted upon quite quickly!! :dunno:
Isnt it the case that IDNet can not do anything anyway over bank holidays because BT Wholesale is not operating as normal? So even if they were working BT are not going to be able to sort it out, I thought that was the reason. :dunno: Saying that a big ISP will tell you they are working on it and just put a order in to BT so at least you think something is happening, but maybe once again its not due to BT working hours. Sounds like people need the placebo effect. I have left messages and had responses over bank holidays, also a lot depends on how you word your complaint as to what kind of reply you get and thats not just with IDNet...just saying.
With regard to Openreach.
The Openreach SLA the level1/standard care states that faults can be reported 24/7 however outside normal workings hours a fault will be treated as reported on the beginning of the next working day. The working hours for this service are 0800-1700 hours Monday-Friday excluding Public and Bank Holidays.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 25, 2011, 08:52:05
With regard to Openreach.
The Openreach SLA the level1/standard care states that faults can be reported 24/7 however outside normal workings hours a fault will be treated as reported on the beginning of the next working day. The working hours for this service are 0800-1700 hours Monday-Friday excluding Public and Bank Holidays.
So not much anyone can do then over bank holidays, apart from the usual trouble shooting, which the forum can help with really.
Quote from: Gary on Apr 25, 2011, 08:29:20
....Saying that a big ISP will tell you they are working on it and just put a order in to BT so at least you think something is happening, but maybe once again its not due to BT working hours. Sounds like people need the placebo effect. .....
I think that's correct and if it does turn out to be a BT fault there is little iDNet can do until OpenReach resume normal operating hours.
However, at this stage we don't know if it is a BT fault or one with iDNet and I think it's that that T_M_D is complaining about. TBH I always thought that out of hours - or at least at weekends/Bank Holidays - iDNet operated a system of duty managers. Basically someone who would check the emails answer the phone and respond to anyone who had a complete service failure (aka no service). If this system no longer operates and there is to be no response whatever out of hours, I think we should be told and an explanation given.
Agreed that the response you get after leaving a message depends to a large extent on the type of message that is left. I'm sure that despite what recent posts may lead you to believe, T_M_D left a message that was polite and clearly explained the situation. Given that this amounts to a loss of service, I think she's entitled to a response from iDNet. Those who leave an ill-tempered rant on the answer machine can hardly be surprised if the response is tardy at best.
Quote from: Tacitus on Apr 25, 2011, 09:29:53
I think that's correct and if it does turn out to be a BT fault there is little iDNet can do until OpenReach resume normal operating hours.
However, at this stage we don't know if it is a BT fault or one with iDNet and I think it's that that T_M_D is complaining about. TBH I always thought that out of hours - or at least at weekends/Bank Holidays - iDNet operated a system of duty managers. Basically someone who would check the emails answer the phone and respond to anyone who had a complete service failure (aka no service). If this system no longer operates and there is to be no response whatever out of hours, I think we should be told and an explanation given.
Agreed that the response you get after leaving a message depends to a large extent on the type of message that is left. I'm sure that despite what recent posts may lead you to believe, T_M_D left a message that was polite and clearly explained the situation. Given that this amounts to a loss of service, I think she's entitled to a response from iDNet. Those who leave an ill-tempered rant on the answer machine can hardly be surprised if the response is tardy at best.
Oh I agree she should have a response, I always have when leaving a message over normal weekends, there is normally someone about in case something goes t*t's up. I think this is the issue wth niche ISP's though, lack of support over times like these, but tbh when BT changed what the ISP could do regarding line management from their end, this was bound to happen. If IDNet instigated full time weekend help I imagine costs will go up and there is still not much they could do if its out of their hands, and I don't think (no offence IDNet) that the niche provider is worth the extra cash anymore although I am happy staying here for now until I can get decent LLU. A lot has changed to make small ISP's into blunt instruments over the last year by BT. Alas for some reason IDNet seem particularly hard hit by outages recently which does not help the mood. Maybe time for a spring clean of the equipment ;)
I believe NO ONE should work over bank holidays ata ll, that includes shops, emergency services, power sattions etc. It does seem that most people who work normal office hours expect everyone else to be at their beck and call out of office hours. Why should people work bank holidays and sundays etc to service all those who have those days off? Especially as, in many cases these days, those peopele no longer get extra pay or days of in lieu. It seems that office workers want others to work unsocial hours just so they can have people run round after them.
I think it's time that eveyone should work 5 days spread over 7 days on a 3 shift system, that way everyone would be in the same boat and complaints would be unsustainable.
Quote from: Gary on Apr 25, 2011, 09:47:46
Oh I agree she should have a response, I always have when leaving a message over normal weekends, there is normally someone about in case something goes t*t's up.
I've had a response when leaving a message over a weekend, so has my sister. In my case it was Simon, in her case Miriam, so I guess it's where the rota falls on the day. The real question is why hasn't Tina received a response? Is it that the policy has changed so there's no out of hours service whatever or is it that something has gone pear-shaped? We don't know and I doubt iDNet staff are lying in a deck chair whilst tuned in to Netters via their iPhones/iPads or whatever.
Quote from: Gary on Apr 25, 2011, 09:47:46
..... when BT changed what the ISP could do regarding line management from their end, this was bound to happen. If IDNet instigated full time weekend help I imagine costs will go up and there is still not much they could do if its out of their hands....
I agree and this is where BT are stifling competition, particularly from the smaller provider.
Quote from: Gary on Apr 25, 2011, 09:47:46
I don't think (no offence IDNet) that the niche provider is worth the extra cash anymore although I am happy staying here for now until I can get decent LLU. A lot has changed to make small ISP's into blunt instruments over the last year by BT.
Whether or not the niche providers are worth the money is a pure judgement call. I never regard pure price as a prime indicator - *value* is what matters, although the smaller suppliers are beginning to offer less in the way of perceived value due mainly to the machinations of BT. Still I guess heat and kitchens come to mind...
Quote from: Gary on Apr 25, 2011, 09:47:46
Alas for some reason IDNet seem particularly hard hit by outages recently which does not help the mood. Maybe time for a spring clean of the equipment ;)
You seldom if ever hear about Zen having the same rate of outages, neither for that matter did you hear about NewNet, although they've dropped off the radar since the Timico takeover. Maybe others do have outages - I'm sure they do from time to time - but they are better/quicker at fixing them and keeping it all quiet ;D
As far as I am aware nothing recently has changed with support's working hours or out of hours response and indeed I received a response regarding the webmail issue on Saturday. I would sincerely hope by now that Tina has received a response. :fingers:
Quote from: Steve on Apr 25, 2011, 10:38:16
As far as I am aware nothing recently has changed with support's working hours or out of hours response and indeed I received a response regarding the webmail issue on Saturday. I would sincerely hope by now that Tina has received a response. :fingers:
Thanks Steve, I didn't think anything had changed but it is unusual for them not to respond. It would be helpful if Tina let us know what's happening - assuming she can get a sufficiently good connection. :)
Quote from: Tacitus on Apr 25, 2011, 09:29:53
I think that's correct and if it does turn out to be a BT fault there is little iDNet can do until OpenReach resume normal operating hours.
However, at this stage we don't know if it is a BT fault or one with iDNet and I think it's that that T_M_D is complaining about. TBH I always thought that out of hours - or at least at weekends/Bank Holidays - iDNet operated a system of duty managers. Basically someone who would check the emails answer the phone and respond to anyone who had a complete service failure (aka no service). If this system no longer operates and there is to be no response whatever out of hours, I think we should be told and an explanation given.
Agreed that the response you get after leaving a message depends to a large extent on the type of message that is left. I'm sure that despite what recent posts may lead you to believe, T_M_D left a message that was polite and clearly explained the situation. Given that this amounts to a loss of service, I think she's entitled to a response from iDNet. Those who leave an ill-tempered rant on the answer machine can hardly be surprised if the response is tardy at best.
Thank you Tactitus - I was feeling a lack of support yesterday. I did leave a message that was not impolite to IDNet Support yestereday, in fact I left two, the first one was very waffly, so I rang back a few hours later when I was still getting a problem pleading for some support. I can only assume that the total lack of support means that there is a total lack of anyone there to actually pick up my message and respond.
I am almost in tears now because last night suddenly at around midnight I got a workable internet connection, running at just under 6mbps. I thought great, now hopefully, all the stuff I needed to get on with during this bank holiday weekend I can get on with tomorrow. I felt heartened this morning to find that it seemed to be working. I ran a bt speed test and indeed it was running at just under 5mbps. So there I am, happily catching up with all my stuff, when wham, down it sinks again - I was able to just about run a BT speed test again and it is down to a dire 37kbps!
I probably won't be able to get on here for much longer - other than painstakingly like I did yesterday through my google mail in basic html mode.
I have emailed support again (did so yesterday once I discovered I could do it via google html basic view) and again this morning to inform them that it had started working at around midnight last night and was OK this morning, then an hour and 20 mins later to tell them that it is again practically unusable.
Again, I am pleading with them to get in touch with me. I have not left a nasty rant, but I have made it clear I am not happy about the lack of support and also that the symptoms seem to be commensurate with not enough bandwidth for the number of people using the service during peak times. I left both BT and 02 for this reason. I have noticed over the last few months that my connection does tend to slow down at busy times, but not to an unusable degree like it has done since Saturday and I have always been happy as long as I can get on to web sites without too much pain and I appreciate restrictions on my exchange, but when it is working properly I get a decent-enough-for-me 5-6mbps.
I am feeling extremely frustrated now - whilst IDNet support are off enjoying their hols, much of mine has been spent in frustration and unhappiness at my lack of internet connection - sounds sad I know, maybe most people have better things to do, but for me, after some long working hours and hardly time to catch up with stuff, this bank holiday weekend was going to be the time for me to catch up.
Is it possible that there is some kind of bandwidth throttling/traffic shaping going on just on my exchange? I am assuming that as there does not seem anyone on here suffering the same issues as me that it has to be contained to my exchange?
I have deleted the text from this as it was a repeat posting I inadvertently did as I thought it hadn't loaded on. Tina.
It's not a bandwidth issue at IDNet, Tina, if it were we'd have a lot more complaints. I suspect BT engineering work, but have no evidence for this. Your problem has been escalated by forum staff as much as we can, and I'm afraid that we are all stuck waiting for a reply now.
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 25, 2011, 12:28:03
Is it possible that there is some kind of bandwidth throttling/traffic shaping going on just on my exchange? I am assuming that as there does not seem anyone on here suffering the same issues as me that it has to be contained to my exchange?
If your exchange is madly congested you could have issues, have you used the plusnet exchange Status Checker when you can get online? Its possible though that it may not have the latest info of course http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/ can you check with a neighbour to see if they have issues? Maybe it would be a good idea to get a pay and go Dongle for Mobile broadband for emergencies.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 25, 2011, 12:40:41
It's not a bandwidth issue at IDNet, Tina, if it were we'd have a lot more complaints. I suspect BT engineering work, but have no evidence for this. Your problem has been escalated by forum staff as much as we can, and I'm afraid that we are all stuck waiting for a reply now.
You beat me to it Rik. Looking at the situation so far the possibilities are router failure, a major noise event that's driven the profile down or BT work. Could be any of those.
TBH I'm surprised Tina hasn't had a response of some sort.
Gary: I was going to suggest a PAYG dongle for emergencies. O2 were doing a special offer, so I got one for a tenner and it proved invaluable on a couple of occasions.
Quote from: Tacitus on Apr 25, 2011, 12:53:14
You beat me to it Rik. Looking at the situation so far the possibilities are router failure, a major noise event that's driven the profile down or BT work. Could be any of those.
TBH I'm surprised Tina hasn't had a response of some sort.
Gary: I was going to suggest a PAYG dongle for emergencies. O2 were doing a special offer, so I got one for a tenner and it proved invaluable on a couple of occasions.
A Tenner is a bargain, I would have to go with Three or Vodafone as no O2 3G coverage where I live, but its a good backup. I wish O2 did those femtocells like Vodafone do then I could use my iPhone as a Hotspot on O2.
Quote from: cavillas on Apr 25, 2011, 10:11:25
I believe NO ONE should work over bank holidays ata ll, that includes shops, emergency services, power sattions etc. It does seem that most people who work normal office hours expect everyone else to be at their beck and call out of office hours. Why should people work bank holidays and sundays etc to service all those who have those days off? Especially as, in many cases these days, those peopele no longer get extra pay or days of in lieu. It seems that office workers want others to work unsocial hours just so they can have people run round after them.
I think it's time that eveyone should work 5 days spread over 7 days on a 3 shift system, that way everyone would be in the same boat and complaints would be unsustainable.
Me too. I'd absolutely love that. It would make life much easier. You'd always be able to contact someone during the week then. There were rumblings of this being introduced in our place, but I've heard nothing of that for about 2 years, so it seems it won't happen. Personally if we worked 4 on 4 off, or alternate shift patterns, it would be ideal. I'd be able to do much more, and you could even choose your delivery dates without having to be off work, or pay £20 more for Saturday delivery! Realistically though, I think that if they ever did this in our place, it would be staggered working days rather than shifts or 4 on 4 off. That being said, the 4 on 4 off pattern would make it VERY difficult for me to go to the gym as for 4 days, I'd be in work for the entire period the gym is open.
Quote from: Tacitus on Apr 25, 2011, 12:53:14
You beat me to it Rik. Looking at the situation so far the possibilities are router failure, a major noise event that's driven the profile down or BT work. Could be any of those.
TBH I'm surprised Tina hasn't had a response of some sort.
Gary: I was going to suggest a PAYG dongle for emergencies. O2 were doing a special offer, so I got one for a tenner and it proved invaluable on a couple of occasions.
I am amazed that I can still get on here to respond. as I say, the BT speed test reported 37kbps.
I personally don't see how it can be a router issue when it was working fine late last night and up to around 10.15 this morning?
I would be happy to buy a dongle, however, when checking 3G coverage in my area, it is supposed to be either non-existent or very poor. I was wondering if maybe a dial-up modem would be an option, though it would have to be USB connection as I do not have a port in my laptop.
Noise-wise, are there reasons why there would be noise causing an issue only between certain hours?
I know there isn't much anyone on here can do, but thanks to all for your invaluable advice so far, it does help, coming on here.
I guess I now just have to accept that there will not be any IDNet staff available until tomorrow at the earliest. I will though be sending an email of discontent at some point tonight and I will be worrying in case it happens to me again next weekend.
It would be so typical of BT to decide to undertake 'unannounced' maintenance work over a bank holiday, but that is the only other reason I can think of as to why it was working fine late last night and up to around 10.15 today.
If I knew where the exchange was located I would be tempted to pay them an impromtu visit to catch them at it! :)
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 25, 2011, 13:50:34
I am amazed that I can still get on here to respond. as I say, the BT speed test reported 37kbps.
My first home internet connection was at 14.4, my first one at work used a 300 baud modem and an acoustic coupler which would be around the same speed as you are currently getting. We thought we were at the cutting edge of technology which I guess we were at the time :)
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 25, 2011, 13:50:34
I would be happy to buy a dongle, however, when checking 3G coverage in my area, it is supposed to be either non-existent or very poor. I was wondering if maybe a dial-up modem would be an option, though it would have to be USB connection as I do not have a port in my laptop.
I can't get 3G. Fortunately I'm between the village and the O2 tower so the signal isn't too bad. By the time you get to the village it's vanished altogether. A dial up modem would probably be as fast, but I'm not sure whether iDNet support dial-up.
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 25, 2011, 13:50:34
Noise-wise, are there reasons why there would be noise causing an issue only between certain hours?
Someone nearby switching on machinery. Fridges and central heating are other possibilities
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 25, 2011, 13:50:34
I guess I now just have to accept that there will not be any IDNet staff available until tomorrow at the earliest. I will though be sending an email of discontent at some point tonight and I will be worrying in case it happens to me again next weekend.
Like I said I'm amazed nobody has responded even if it's just to say it's BT and there's nothing they can do.
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 25, 2011, 13:50:34
It would be so typical of BT to decide to undertake 'unannounced' maintenance work over a bank holiday, but that is the only other reason I can think of as to why it was working fine late last night and up to around 10.15 today.
Were you getting full speeds late last night? It could be a component in the modem that heats up and that's when the failure occurs. I have had a situation where two modems exhibited the same symptons of failure so I concluded - as did support - that two modem failures in succession was unlikely, so we got BT to come out. Unfortunately I was the one in a million that had two dud modems in a row. :shake: Needless to say I got a large bill for the BT callout.... Apparently it is rare but it does happen.
I'm still not entirely convinced that it wasn't an exchange problem, but the amount of time and probably expenditure to get to the bottom of it wasn't worth the effort.
Wonderful thing broadband isn't it. :)
I am disgusted (r) disgusted that IDNet has not been in contact with Tina.
I formally request that IDNet improve their out of hours service especially in view of the fact that we all pay highly for the service which now appears to be crumbling!!
Quote from: Gary on Apr 25, 2011, 08:29:20
Isnt it the case that IDNet can not do anything anyway over bank holidays because BT Wholesale is not operating as normal?
What's that got to do with them offering no support on normal weekends? Or closing for over two weeks every Christmas?
Quote
Free UK Based Technical Support
We don't use 0845, 0870 numbers, or any other premium rate lines. Our support is absolutely free of charge and unlimited provided by UK based support professionals who can assist you immediately via a free-phone 0800 telephone number and email.
That's slightly misleading and should be amended or at least a note added underneath stating actual support opening times.
Quote from: .Griff. on Apr 25, 2011, 15:33:22
That's slightly misleading and should be amended or at least a note added underneath stating actual support opening times.
FWIW I notice that Zen support is open 8AM - 8PM weekdays and, 9AM - 5PM Weekends. They are closed on Bank Holidays - no skeleton service, zilch. This may be why their bandwidth allowances are lower than iDNet. You can't have it all ways since the money has to come from somewhere :)
From the website FAQ http://www.idnet.net/support/faq.jsp#content23
8am – 6.30pm Monday to Thursday
8am – 6pm Friday
Support via email is available 24/7 at support@idnet.com
So, hypothetically, I wonder if people here would be happy with less bandwidth, for more support hours? Not that it's probably that simple!
Quote from: Simon on Apr 25, 2011, 16:07:18
So, hypothetically, I wonder if people here would be happy with less bandwidth, for more support hours? Not that it's probably that simple!
I doubt it is that simple these things rarely are, but that is probably one of the trade-offs :)
The business landscape is littered with companies who had a well-earned reputation for excellence who then allowed things to slip and wished they had not. The facts are that IDNet has had a number of service issues over the past year and its public response has been something of a PR disaster - irrespective of where responsibility for the actual fault sat. Like other posters, I can find no reference to limited support hours on the IDNet website. Equally, where it not for IDNetters filling the communication gap, then I believe that the sense of concern amongst IDNet customers would be greater than has been the case to date. I, for one, do not buy into the argument that because IDNet purchase services in from BT Wholesale etc that there is little need to have support available. My contract is with IDNet not their supplier/s. Even if IDNet cannot do something for me immediately when something goes wrong, then I would wish to know that they are on my case and pushing for a swift resolution. IDNet management need to look at other ISPs who provide their customers with more accurate service status information, information on internal/external outages and progress towards a resolution, and planned BT network maintenance. If there is no-one available out-of-hours to answer the phone, then what confidence can we have that service status is accurate and faults are being resolved? It would be a pity to see a good ISP - and IDNet sits in this category - slip into decline.
We agree with you, and have made sure that this thread will receive the attention of IDNet's management tomorrow, which is sadly as much as we can do right now. :(
Would more support be 24/7 or extended daytime cover over the weekends?
I have no idea how many customers that they have, so guess at 10000, or the cost of bandwidth, but taken at £1.02/Gb (what they charge for additional bandwidth), then a 5Gb reduction per customer would give £51k to play with, to maybe hire 2 staff to cover later hours/weekends.
Trouble is if I've got it right, if you reduce the bandwidth available per customer don't you run the real risk of people simply using less, so no gain there or looking at the revised packages and saying well other ISPs now come into play i.e ZEN and AAISP - I'll go there instead.
It's a balancing act, but one we can't figure out.
Possibly, you also don't actually reduce overheads - I'm not sure how the BT charging system works.
As you say it does all depend on the size of the customer base plus operating costs.
IDNet is much smaller than Zen but Zen have supplied products such as Ethernet longer than IDNet so may have garnered more of the Corporate business market at this stage.
As these products gain traction it is likely that support arrangements will have to be reconsidered as those type of customers will probably want extended support hours and possibly formal weekend cover so am sure things will improve.
I think Joe Public now wants broadband to work as reliably as gas, water or electricity, Mitch, and it never will. However, the aspiration needs to be addressed.
The only way it will be that reliable is when FTTP becomes ubiquitous, ADSL no matter who the ISP is has been disappointing for most people.
I really don't want to put the boot in here but it does seem that IDNet are falling behind regarding support.
Quote from: Glenn on Apr 25, 2011, 16:06:48
From the website FAQ http://www.idnet.net/support/faq.jsp#content23
8am – 6.30pm Monday to Thursday
8am – 6pm Friday
Support via email is available 24/7 at support@idnet.com
Aah that makes everything ok then.
On the actual product page where you purchase the product it says one thing but as long as the truth is buried away in the FAQ's that's fine. ::)
We have drawn IDNet's attention to this thread, Griff, so I would hope the error will be corrected tomorrow.
Cheers Rik.
This is not a dig at you or Zen or a defence of IDNET,OK Mitch as a ZEN customer what are your options if you have line fault yesterday or indeed Friday, looking at their website your nearly in the same boat as us, admittedly any other weekend ZEN support office is open, also do you know whether there is any out of hours support which IDNet claim on their website that they provide.
http://status.zensupport.co.uk/index.php?serviceid=17&incidentid=2201
Please be aware that Zen Internet will be closed over the upcoming Easter and English Bank Holiday dates as follows:
Good Friday (22nd April): Closed
Easter Sunday (24th April): Closed
Easter Monday (25th April): Closed
Royal Wedding (29th April): Closed
May Day (2nd May): Closed
My point is unless you with one of the big players , you ain't going to get 24/7 support but conversely I accept advertised obligations to be fulfilled.
I've been a customer of IDNet for over 5 years and have received good quality support . However, if IDNet staff can't be bothered to get off their fat ar*es and explain they're total ignorance in respect of this thread, then I shall (sadly) vote with my feet.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 25, 2011, 17:23:20
This is not a dig at you or Zen or a defence of IDNET,OK Mitch as a ZEN customer what are your options if you have line fault yesterday or indeed Friday, looking at their website your nearly in the same boat as us, admittedly any other weekend ZEN support office is open, also do you know whether there is any out of hours support which IDNet claim on their website that they provide.
http://status.zensupport.co.uk/index.php?serviceid=17&incidentid=2201
Please be aware that Zen Internet will be closed over the upcoming Easter and English Bank Holiday dates as follows:
Good Friday (22nd April): Closed
Easter Sunday (24th April): Closed
Easter Monday (25th April): Closed
Royal Wedding (29th April): Closed
May Day (2nd May): Closed
My point is unless you with one of the big players , you ain't going to get 24/7 support but conversely I accept advertised obligations to be fulfilled.
Support is indeed closed and if my connection clapped out there wouldn't be anything I could do until tomorrow.
However on a normal weekday they are open till 8 p.m. so can log an issue and at weekends open till 5.
In addition though they have a 24/7 Network Operations Centre (thats people on site) that monitor the network including the BT hostlinks (and they have more than two)
In reality though even the big boys cant really do much at 11 p.m. if your ADSL circuit goes down unless you are a business and have paid for Enhanced care.
Quote from: sobranie on Apr 25, 2011, 17:23:54
I've been a customer of IDNet for over 5 years and have received good quality support . However, if IDNet staff can't be bothered to get off their fat ar*es and explain they're total ignorance in respect of this thread, then I shall (sadly) vote with my feet.
Bit harsh considering they're not actually in work this weekend to be looking for things like this, on an UNOFFICIAL forum, plus the thread was only started during the holidays, so again they wouldn't have seen it yet.
On the contrary Niall, I'd have thought that in order to set themselves apart that someone from IDNet would have popped into the forum at least a few times today as Bank Holidays are when most folks are likely to be at home and wanting to use the connection they pay for.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 25, 2011, 17:01:00
I think Joe Public now wants broadband to work as reliably as gas, water or electricity, Mitch, and it never will. However, the aspiration needs to be addressed.
Who do you hear getting their electric cut off when using "too much"? Granted, they have to pay for it, but broadband is managed totally different.
I think maybe I haven't made my point clearly, Ben. I'm simply saying that broadband has come to be seen in the same light as other utilities and people just expect it to be working 24/7.
The only that will happen is people pay a lot more and BT starts offering broadband enhanced care to ISPs for them to sell onto consumers.
It has taken me an absolute age to get to this reply box and to read all the posts to-date. I have only achieved it by highlighting the urls in the browser address bar and constantly pressing return on them until eventually, bit by little bit all the comments have been revealed (around an hour) and then doing the same to get to this reply box.
My view on OOH support is this: There should at least be some kind of skeleton and/or remote support where there is loss of service - if I could access web sites, even slowly, as long as I could access them I would accept that support had to wait until office hours.
The type of OOH support I expect for an issue such as mine is basic diags to check that the problem is not with the IDNet network. If it is with the IDNet network then I expect a temporary back up service being in place that at least gives me some measure of internet access until the service can be fully reinstated.
I also expect IDNet to have a minimum OOH level of support from BT where they could at least talk to someone at BT who is knowledgeable and in-the-know enough to find out whether maintenance was being undertaken in my area or at my exchange that was causing this issue, I also expect that a line test be done and a check on my exchange for faults. I especially expect this of IDNet because they are happy enough to take on my line rental and so with that comes a measure of responsibility to get my line checked as early as possible when a loss of service issue arises.
I do appreciate and accept that the support in some of the bigger companies leaves a lot to be desired - indeed I have had many a frustrating and unhappy experience in this respect - that is one of the major reasons why I left both BT and 02 and came to IDNet. I had found out good things about IDNet - technically adept support staff, a pride in their company, etc, in particular, I had heard, that even though they strictly speaking do not do OOH support, there will always be someone available in the background who will respond to issues such as mine.
I was not expecting an immediate response and a day without service is one thing, but to be without it for two and a half days + without the least bit of support, without even basic diags is not acceptable - whether it is Christmas or bank holiday or whatever the holiday is.
On the issue of cost - of course none of us wants (or can afford it) to pay too much for better support, but I personally, would be happy to pay an extra £5 per month for some OOH support rather than be faced with complete loss of service for such an extended period of time.
I will be expecting a reduction in my bill commensurate with my loss of service and I have now lost confidence in IDNet that they will help me when I need it the most, which reduces somewhat my reasons for staying with them.
I hope that they can find some middle ground on this issue of support OOH for serious loss of service issues. I am dreading this up and coming bank holiday weekend in case I suffer more of the same.
I will not try and post any more here tonight as I have expended more than enough energy on it now, but I will read all posts and update with news as soon as I am able, probably in my lunch break at work tomorrow.
One last thing - I even left a message on the 'enhanced/business support' option as I assumed someone would listen to that as the service level for that support is that someone 'will contact back as soon as possible', but that message has been ignored as well. The recorded message makes it clear that anyone leaving a message who is a basic residential customer on that option will not get a response until the next working day, which is fair enough and usually I would not even dream of leaving a message on it, but I made it clear that I had done so because of my total loss of service.
I will not try and post any more here tonight as I have expended more than enough energy on this issue for now, but I will read all posts and update with news as soon as I am able, probably in my lunch break at work tomorrow.
All I know is things are not the same way now as they were when I joined, its slower, has more outages and if bandwidth was reduced to help pay for support I would be off straight away as on adslmax I already am penalised by BT and therefore have less to play with for the same money as people on adsl2+ etc. I get fed up of "its your router, it may be your exchange have you checked your cabling we cant see a problem" Its like being told 'have you tried jumping though hoops backwards with a blindfold on while money falls out of your pocket to pay us' then to add insult to injury it turns out to be a issue that IDNet have not noticed, like a few weeks back when Cogent played up and we could see it but support could not, that's basically not what I pay for, I want them to fault find, not users on a forum to have to do it for them! Things have changed and many of us do notice it, and I cant say its not IDNets fault anymore because sometimes it appears it was and they just either ignored it hoping it would go away or seriously could not see the issue, that's NOT the way to run a business supplying Broadband to consumers, because in the end the consumer will go elsewhere. Looking at AAISP's pages they seem more 'network aware' than IDNet do these days :(
Quote from: Steve on Apr 24, 2011, 22:07:06
Tina, there is no mention of you having phoned IDNet in the thread, Sobraine is only trying to be helpful and I feel your response towards him is unwarranted.
Totally disagree. If you are going to reply to a sensitive thread such as this one then make sure that you have got your facts right. Two of you, including yourself got it wrong, badly! Getting it wrong can make the problem far worse.
Contributors here must not be so, so protective of IDNet in the first instance. Listen to and read what the poster has to say and give a
fair and truthful assessment of the situation. This 'protective' stance is not useful and we again should address this position when a cry for help is received as in this particular case.
We can, rightly, praise IDNet for their overall excellent service but when a genuine problem arises we should look at it with a non 'protective' view.
I am aware that this may upset some 'protective' thinking contributors but I feel it has to be said. ;)
Perhaps Q you would like to put the hours in that the admins do on here for free. Perhaps then you might not be so perfect.
I fail to see the point in bringing up again a mistake which has been acknowledged and apologised for a good number of posts previous to now, other than to stir. You wouldn't do that, would you, Q?
Thank goodness the admins do.
My broadband connection has been going up steadily since 8.30pm. Just like last night until it crashed down again at around 10.15am this morning.
The last BT speed test I did at 8.45pm tonight my speed was 1.2mbps - an hour earlier it was under 500kbps, I bet it will have gone up quite a bit more by the next one I will do at 10:50pm.
Not my router, not noise, not my cabling - if BT maintenance then it is some pretty heavy maintenance that has been going on since Saturday and it's now Monday evening? If BT maintenance is to blame, then does this mean that they incrementally restore service little by little until full service is restored when they are winding up their maintenance for the day and then reduce it little by little the next day until it is gone altogether for the rest of the day until the evening comes around again? If so, just exactly what kind of maintenance would this be? Pretty intensive maintenance to be going on so long on one little exchange.
Anyway, as expected, zilch heard from IDNet.
I will keep you all posted - as long as I don't get banned from here that is for being a trouble maker.
You won't get banned if you observe the forum rules, which you may wish to be reminded of, in particular, the part in bold:
QuoteThese rules apply to public posts, personal messages, signatures, profiles and any other comments you make on our forum. Please note that the content of any personal message you receive is confidential and may not be revealed to a third-party, or posted in the forums (however, if you consider a message to be offensive or in other ways against the rules of the forum, you may forward it to a member of staff for action to be considered against the sender).
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,25539.0.html
Righto - message received loud and clear.
Hopefully IDNet will say the same tomorrow. ;)
Quote from: pctech on Apr 25, 2011, 18:00:37
Support is indeed closed and if my connection clapped out there wouldn't be anything I could do until tomorrow.
However on a normal weekday they are open till 8 p.m. so can log an issue and at weekends open till 5.
In addition though they have a 24/7 Network Operations Centre (thats people on site) that monitor the network including the BT hostlinks (and they have more than two)
In reality though even the big boys cant really do much at 11 p.m. if your ADSL circuit goes down unless you are a business and have paid for Enhanced care.
Because of this thread, I have now started to look at going back to ZEN as their support hours are longer and do cover the weekends for exactly the same price I am currently paying with Idnet (£25.52) and for that I would get a 50Gb allowance instead of 30Gb which is more than adequate for me, but I would loose of course the generous off-peak allowance of 60Gb which I have only had to use once after having to do several installs with all the MS updates etc. Zen's phone service is not so attractive as Idnet's though.
Colin
Quote from: wdforte on Apr 25, 2011, 19:13:21
Totally disagree. If you are going to reply to a sensitive thread such as this one then make sure that you have got your facts right. Two of you, including yourself got it wrong, badly! Getting it wrong can make the problem far worse.
Contributors here must not be so, so protective of IDNet in the first instance. Listen to and read what the poster has to say and give a fair and truthful assessment of the situation. This 'protective' stance is not useful and we again should address this position when a cry for help is received as in this particular case.
We can, rightly, praise IDNet for their overall excellent service but when a genuine problem arises we should look at it with a non 'protective' view.
I am aware that this may upset some 'protective' thinking contributors but I feel it has to be said. ;)
Thanks for sticking up for me WDForte ;D
Quote from: Simon on Apr 25, 2011, 22:53:52
Hopefully IDNet will say the same tomorrow. ;)
Yeah? I have just done a final speed test for the night and as I suspected would happen, it is pretty well back to normal (for now). BT Speedtest result: 5570kbps. So, I now reckon that there will be 'no fault found' tomorrow leaving me in no man's land for it happening again. My fear is that it will again happen over next week's extended weekend.
I have though got all my BT speed test result screen dumps from today as testimony to this issue.
Unless things have changed recently, support will have access to all BT Speedtests conducted from their network.
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Apr 25, 2011, 23:28:03
Unless things have changed recently, support will have access to all BT Speedtests conducted from their network.
Thanks, that's great - I have screen-dumped them into an email as I was unaware of that.
I have raised many points and asked for my email to be treated as a complaint and for it to be dealt with at the appropriate level within IDNet by someone who is prepared to take the whole thing seriously and who is prepared to investigate it fully and find out what is causing this issue and respond to me accordingly. I have also asked for a measure of assurance that I will not find myself suffering the same fate this up and coming holiday weekend, which is my biggest fear about it at the moment.
Anyway, we shall see, hopefully I will not get a fob off and someone in IDNet will care enough to sort this out. Obviously the way they deal with this, bodes for the way they will potentially treat others who suffer similar loss of service problems OOH.
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 25, 2011, 22:29:20
Not my router, not noise, not my cabling......
With respect Tina how do you know for sure that it's not your router unless you've tried another one? As I suggested it could be heat problems causing an intermittent fault, although I grant from the information provided it does seem unlikely.
It could quite possibly be noise. Someone switches something on for a while which causes noise via some mechanism we cannot fathom at this stage. It's later switched off and the problem goes away.
Whilst I appreciate and share your frustration with support, the only way to isolate broadband problems is usually by the patient application of trial and error, unless of course there's something obvious which iDNet can see from their end.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains however improbable must be the truth" © Sherlock Holmes (or Arthur Conan Doyle if you prefer) :)
Quote from: Tacitus on Apr 26, 2011, 07:24:43
With respect Tina how do you know for sure that it's not your router unless you've tried another one? As I suggested it could be heat problems causing an intermittent fault, although I grant from the information provided it does seem unlikely.
It could quite possibly be noise. Someone switches something on for a while which causes noise via some mechanism we cannot fathom at this stage. It's later switched off and the problem goes away.
Whilst I appreciate and share your frustration with support, the only way to isolate broadband problems is usually by the patient application of trial and error, unless of course there's something obvious which iDNet can see from their end.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains however improbable must be the truth" © Sherlock Holmes (or Arthur Conan Doyle if you prefer) :)
Morning Tacitus. Had IDNet been around to 'check for something obvious' their end I would have been delighted.
I hear what you are saying, but with the best will in the world, I feel that fault finding should be done by the people I am paying money to for my services. I am paying for my broadband and my line rental through IDNet and as such I do not feel the onus should fall on me to fault find other than to do the absolute obvious stuff such as turning the router off from power for a period of time, looking at router stats, connecting via LAN cable, running BT speed tests, etc. Are you saying that broadband providers should not even bother checking anything their end unless a customer has done all these checks AND changed their router? What about people who would not have a clue how to go about doing such things?
I have done everthing I possibly can my end to fault find this issue, bar changing the router, which I do not have and cannot currently afford, however, I will buy another one as soon as I am able as I can see that not having a spare does leave me vulnerable for that time when it will one day be the router and it leaves me vulnerable to anyone having an attitude of reluctance to perform fault finding if a different router has not been tried by the customer.
I am sorry to disagree with you, but I do not feel that it is my router or noise and I do not feel that not having a spare router should mean that no fault finding gets undertaken by the people who take my money. You might not be saying that, but for anyone on the forum thinking this, then that is my view on the subject of spare routers, but after this experience, I will get one so as not to feel so vulnerable.
As I expected, my BT speed test this morning at 7.20am is 5481mbps. This has been the pattern for over 3 days now.
OOH argument aside, what I expect as a customer of ANY broadband/phone service provider is:
They look for the obvious and run basic diagnostics their end and check their network.
They check to see if anyone else is experiencing a similar problem during the period of time the problem occurs/occurred.
They contact BT to find out whether there is anything they might have done to cause the problem.
They get BT to check the exchange.
They get BT to check the line.
If my router was showing obvious signs of being a problem, then I would definitely have expected it to be responsible, but all checks on it indicate it is in good health and the pattern of internet up, internet down over this bank holdiay weekend, is just a bit too neat in my book to be anything other than either bandwidth issues (whatever they might be) or BT messing with equipment or doing maintenance work, or some other issue not thought of.
The biggest fact is the pattern of this - it went down during a busy bank holiday weekend just at peak times for internet usage and it came back up to usability 'incrementally' from what would be the start of internet activity dying down to gaining its full capacity again at a time of night when internet activity is at its lowest.
I just hope this issue can be sorted out and that IDNet will dilligently do the work required to find out what has gone on here and to make sure the problem gets resolved and does not just take the attitude that because there is no currently obvious problem this morning, that they can just ignore it. Where does that leave me if this problem happens again this next extended weekend?
I hope that today, they live up to the reputation that made me join them in the first place and do everything they can to diagnose the problem and to find out what caused it and then to resolve it and get back to me with a full report on the issue. Then, I will feel that they are worth continuing to pay my money to - total lack of OOH support aside!
:fingers:
My intent in contributing to the thread is definitely not to dissuade people from staying with IDNet and my response was to a direct question.
I do think IDNet need to look at their support hours though in light of their competition and maybe use the forum a little more to pick up on issues as it really shouldn't be down to the mods to provide a service that IDNet should be.
I do agree though, the phone service is a much better deal than Zen currently.
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 26, 2011, 08:18:11
Are you saying that broadband providers should not even bother checking anything their end unless a customer has done all these checks AND changed their router? What about people who would not have a clue how to go about doing such things?
No I was absolutely not saying that, I was simply pointing out that you cannot know for certain that it is
not your router unless you do a swap. In your case it probably isn't, but you don't know for certain. However I accept that your first port of call should be iDNet in order to rule out other factors. I'm not defending them and think they've been remiss in not responding.
I'm sorry you choose to interpret my post in that manner and feel that given the amount of heat that's being generated on this thread, it might be better if we paused until more facts are available. :)
Good luck with finding a solution to the problem - I hope support sort it out for you. :)
Looking at the problem I'm beginning to wonder if your exchange has been heavily congested Tina
This could either be the spoecific Virtual Path or general backhaul capacity.
Virtual Path capapcity issues can be resolved by support requesting a change in the routing (or at least that used to be the case I believe) but if overall backhaul is congested it is down to BT to upgrade and no BT backhaul based ISP will be able to help sadly.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 25, 2011, 18:37:26
I think maybe I haven't made my point clearly, Ben. I'm simply saying that broadband has come to be seen in the same light as other utilities and people just expect it to be working 24/7.
Sorry, my mistake. I was agreeing with you. But saying it's kind of unfair for the customer to expect it. Also that the broadband companies do not treat it like electric or gas. It's more like Calour gas bottles, or Oil deliveries. IE, the company pulls all the strings. :P
Even the TV around here cuts out at times. What do I do? Something else. Why moan when it's certain to get sorted ASAP. :dunno:
I must admit with all the sunshine down south I have spent more time out and about than I have for ages, got used to the wheelchair now, still find congestion and slow throughput though, bladdy holiday makers blocking the paths ;)
Even with my limited knowledge, it does sound more like exchange / VP congestion than anything else.
IDNet will lend out a test router if it comes to it, but let's see what they have to say first.
Not wanting to wade in (but i'm going to anyway), I had a client who had a very similar problem to TMD's. They weren't with IDNet (it was AOL) and they had a wireless router that their son had bought for them. It had been working fine for months. They called me because they had been experiencing an extremely slow internet connection that was virtually unusable for a period of some weeks.
Sure enough, I get there and check things out on my own laptop (to rule out theirs) and I get the same behaviour. I checked the router stats - they are on a long line, but the stats checked out fine, i.e. sync was 1.8MB and noise and attenuation were what was expected for that line. I then ran some BT speed tests, and they showed that the BRAS profile was in line with what I would have expected for a 1.8MB sync i.e. around 1.5MB, however, throughput was hideous - slower than dialup.
At this point I extracted a Netgear DG384 v4 that I carry in my bag for these sorts of occasions, and connected it up (once I had managed to extract the AOL login and password details from AOL - no mean feat that!!) and well, what do you know, the connection was instantly back to normal. Another BT speed test showed that the throughput was now as would be expected for the BRAS profile that was in place. Webpages loaded fine... I advised the client to throw their router (it was a "Tenda" to name and shame) in the bin (err... recycle it) and ordered them a new Netgear DG834 v5 wireless version. That has been in place for some time now with no issue.
I'm not saying that TMD's router is definitely the issue here, but as has already been stated in this thread, you cannot be certain that it is not at fault... If you are using your own hardware to connect (and not an IDNet supplied router) then I guess it's one more step in the troubleshooting exercise.
Hope the problem is sorted soon.
Quote from: jameshurrell on Apr 26, 2011, 10:27:39
If you are using your own hardware to connect (and not an IDNet supplied router) then I guess it's one more step in the troubleshooting exercise.
What difference would using a IDNet supplied router make, I see your point, you can never discount your router, even reloading firmware can help, but IDNet supplied routers are nothing extra special from anything else you can buy, they just come with the settings already on board. Its not like Sky where you can only use a Sky router (in theory) as its really hard to extract the user name and password. Last time I looked they provided Netgear DG834G's anyway.
Quote from: Gary on Apr 26, 2011, 10:47:32
What difference would using a IDNet supplied router make, I see your point, you can never discount your router, even reloading firmware can help, but IDNet supplied routers are nothing extra special from anything else you can buy, they just come with the settings already on board. Its not like Sky where you can only use a Sky router (in theory) as its really hard to extract the user name and password. Last time I looked they provided Netgear DG834G's anyway.
I guess my point was that if you have an IDNet supplied router, the onus is even more on IDNet to sort it out.
Quote from: jameshurrell on Apr 26, 2011, 10:52:15
I guess my point was that if you have an IDNet supplied router, the onus is even more on IDNet to sort it out.
Ahh I see your point, I need more coffee to get my head in gear :)
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 26, 2011, 08:18:11
what I expect as a customer of ANY broadband/phone service provider is:
They look for the obvious and run basic diagnostics their end and check their network.
They check to see if anyone else is experiencing a similar problem during the period of time the problem occurs/occurred.
They contact BT to find out whether there is anything they might have done to cause the problem.
They get BT to check the exchange.
They get BT to check the line.
Its pretty obvious that this is a unique problem not at IDNet's end because otherwise we would have lots of similar complaints on here. The last two would cost you something like £180 if there is no fault BT's side of the master socket, which is why IDNet like to get customers to run various tests and even swap out hardware when possible to try and save the customer money.
My take on this whole thread is that there has been a lot of moaning about lack of OOH support (in which case why sign up with IDNet?), but its unlikely in this case (any any other similar cases) having OOH help available would make any difference. Additionally, some input to this thread has been purposely trying to stir things up which isn't very helpful at all when there is an issue being discussed.
Finally, Tina, if a connection to the internet is that importantant to you, as has already been mentioned in the thread you should get an enhanced care package, or either a back up line or alternative method of access such as a 3g stick. I know you've said you shouldn't have to but that poor argument could be applied to all sort of things. It just boils down to how important your connection is to you.
Trouble is Lance I don't think Enhanced Care is offered on consumer packages?
Quote from: Lance on Apr 26, 2011, 10:55:58
Its pretty obvious that this is a unique problem not at IDNet's end because otherwise we would have lots of similar complaints on here. The last two would cost you something like £180 if there is no fault BT's side of the master socket, which is why IDNet like to get customers to run various tests and even swap out hardware when possible to try and save the customer money.
My take on this whole thread is that there has been a lot of moaning about lack of OOH support (in which case why sign up with IDNet?), but its unlikely in this case (any any other similar cases) having OOH help available wouldn't make any difference. Additionally, some input to this thread has been purposely trying to stir things up which isn't very helpful at all when there is an issue being discussed.
Finally, Tina, if a connection to the internet is that importantant to you, as has already been mentioned in the thread you should get an enhanced care package, or either a back up line or alternative method of access such as a 3g stick. I know you've said you shouldn't have to but that poor argument could be applied to all sort of things. It just boils down to how important your connection is to you.
Sorry, I totally disagree with everything you say!
Its not, but there is nothing stopping consumers paying for a business package and adding it on. It just depends how important the line is. I know, for example, if I ran a business from home I would have two lines with different providers. If I was to start working from home 5 days a week, I would certainly consider a business package even though I've got an office I can go to in the event of a failure.
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 26, 2011, 11:04:11
Sorry, I totally disagree with everything you say!
Fair enough - you're entitled to your views and opinions.
Miriam is working on this for me, it was good to get an email from her and it has reassured me somewhat.
Rik and others on here I know have been trying their best to get me some help for me over the last few days and so a big thank you to them for that and their continuing support.
I realise that I have not behaved on a couple of occasions within the rules and etiquette of this forum and so I am sorry for any offence caused to anyone.
I will behave better on here - but I will continue to air my views and disagree where I hold an opposing view :-)
That's all we ask, Tina, disagree but don't let's fall out - we're all customers at the end of the day.
Thanks, Tina. Hopefully you'll get some answers today.
Pleased you're getting some progress Tina. Let us know the outcome. :)
Quote from: Steve on Apr 25, 2011, 19:25:00
Perhaps Q you would like to put the hours in that the admins do on here for free. Perhaps then you might not be so perfect.
I cannot see for the life of me how my comments in this thread can be seen as being directed at 'Admins', the fact that you are an admin is totally immaterial, the comments were to an 'individual' or 'individuals' and 'admins' never came into my mind at any time whilst posting.
I do appreciate what admins have to do, and that is fine, but they surely are not exempt from an honest and truthful reply to one of their posts?
And, Simon, you may call it 'stirring', that's your choice, but I can assure you that my comments were intended to be honest, straightforward and, well meaning to all concerned. I don't think strong honest views (which were definitely not directed at Admins) should be confused as 'stirring'.
Strong
honest views should be the life blood of a lively forum and if offered genuinely, as mine were, should always be encouraged and not pigeon holed as 'stirring'. ;)
Quote from: wdforte on Apr 25, 2011, 19:13:21
Totally disagree. If you are going to reply to a sensitive thread such as this one then make sure that you have got your facts right. Two of you, including yourself got it wrong, badly! Getting it wrong can make the problem far worse.
Contributors here must not be so, so protective of IDNet in the first instance. Listen to and read what the poster has to say and give a fair and truthful assessment of the situation. This 'protective' stance is not useful and we again should address this position when a cry for help is received as in this particular case.
We can, rightly, praise IDNet for their overall excellent service but when a genuine problem arises we should look at it with a non 'protective' view.
I am aware that this may upset some 'protective' thinking contributors but I feel it has to be said. ;)
Who was the text I have emboldened directed at, Q?
As to protective, you are not in possession of the full facts. The forum staff have been very active outside the forum this weekend, trying to find out why Tina had not received a reply, and making sure that she got one. Sadly, we cannot always achieve what we would like, and that was the case this weekend.
Rik
See Posts 11 & 17 apologising for missing an extremely important point from the OP. The 'protective' aspect of the post was a general observation and NOT, repeat, NOT directed at admins or anyone in particular. Please, please, do get this idea that I am pin pointing admins, out of your minds, I am not!
I love 'em really ;) :thumb:
Sorry Rik, Posts 15 & 17 ;)
Quote from: Simon on Apr 25, 2011, 19:26:45
I fail to see the point in bringing up again a mistake which has been acknowledged and apologised for a good number of posts previous to now, other than to stir. You wouldn't do that, would you, Q?
Quote from: wdforte on Apr 26, 2011, 13:03:12And, Simon, you may call it 'stirring', that's your choice, but I can assure you that my comments were intended to be honest, straightforward and, well meaning to all concerned. I don't think strong honest views (which were definitely not directed at Admins) should be confused as 'stirring'.
Strong honest views should be the life blood of a lively forum and if offered genuinely, as mine were, should always be encouraged and not pigeon holed as 'stirring'. ;)
Given that I addressed my question to 'Q', and you have responded, as you have above, can we therefore assume you are indeed the member formally known as 'Q', or 'Quandam'?
Quote from: wdforte on Apr 26, 2011, 13:39:12
Sorry Rik, Posts 15 & 17 ;)
Two people who made a mistake but apologised, Q, and you feel that's protective?
This is all rather off the Subject heading. How many times have we been reminded by one particular individual to keep help threads on topic until the problem is solved. Anyway I feel I must say something off topic,this is the help section of the forum and the take home point to me is that a fellow member went to the trouble of finding two support numbers for IDNet as he (like me) at the time could see no mention of the OP having used this method.
The previous posts by Q or WDForte criticise the mistake; this mistake is completely immaterial in finding a solution to this problem. The plain basic fact is that potentially useful information was given. I can understand there being a case to answer if bad or erroneous advice had been given by either of us to the OP. This sort of criticism does not,in my opinion, encourage anyone to give freely of any advice or information to a fellow member of this community.
Likewise I also feel very strongly that anyone who criticises fellow members for trying to help others (not withstanding that most of us are amateurs at this; we are not paid I.T Network specialists and we will make some mistakes) should not be members of this community and unofficial support forum.
:slap: Sorry, can't explain any more :slap: :dunno:
Steve isn't looking for an explanation, Q. He's making the point that members and staff are not generally experts, they give of their time freely, and do not need anyone picking up on a simple mistake and rubbing their faces in it.
This forum is a little over five years old. When I joined the staff at the beginning of 2007, there were just two of us. Now there are seven. In that time, the present seven staff have put in more than 29,000 man hours to this forum - that's not far off the equivalent of three people working full time. We're here every day of the year.
We can give no more. If our best efforts are not good enough for you then the future of the forum comes into question. Alternatively, if you feel that the style or rules here don't suit you, then perhaps you would be happier elsewhere?
I am just finishing work for the day and off to do some food shopping before I can get home, so it will be later this evening before I can check things out with my internet. I will keep the forum posted over the next few days.
There is no clear outcome yet, but I am satisfied that my issue is being investigated fully by IDNet and that everything is being done to ensure I don't suffer a repeat performance this weekend. BT are slow responding, by the looks of things as we wait to get a response from them regarding possible congestion due to my Virtual Path.
I have just checked into the forum before leaving work and I would just like to say to everyone, please could we put aside differences and move on to a more relaxed position with each other?
Everyone who takes part in this forum has had valid points to make and there are many differences of opinion that have arisen over the last few days.
Can we all just take a deep breath now and step back a bit and resist the temptation to bite back at each other please?
Thanks for that, Tina, sound advice. :thumb:
Sounds like a good plan :)
:dunno: :slap: There does seem to be a gulf and severe misunderstanding here, I only post as I feel without any animosity to anyone (or group) and always with an honest intent, if that does not pass muster then I have to say that there is little else I can do :slap:
Honest and above board posting seems to be taken as an affront to the 'admins' who appear to boringly repeat the mantra "You have no idea what we do", " We do it for nothing" etc etc. Admins are there to encourage lively interaction and their 'duties' are, after all, voluntary and should encourage input from contributors rather than stifle it if it slightly criticises IDNet.
There is a serious problem with sycophantic IDNet leanings here, where in fact a forum should be a forum where genuine comments should be encouraged whether in favour or against provided they are without, swearing or rudeness to an individual etc etc etc.
IDNetters, although a good web site tool does not provide a true outlet for honest comments relating to IDNet. This weakness, should be looked at in detail and rectified for the benefit of free speech.
So, it's goodbye from me and goodbye from him ;) :slap: :dunno:
We rarely pull posts, we have criticised IDNet ourselves when we feel it justified, Q. The forum is here for
honest comment, in the fullest sense of the word. It's not here for individuals to have digs at others.
Quote from: wdforte on Apr 26, 2011, 19:08:06
Honest and above board posting seems to be taken as an affront to the 'admins' who appear to boringly repeat the mantra "You have no idea what we do", " We do it for nothing" etc etc. Admins are there to encourage lively interaction and their 'duties' are, after all, voluntary and should encourage input from contributors rather than stifle it if it slightly criticises IDNet.
If you feel attacking people for a simple and genuine mistake is acceptable, you really need to read the rules. Admins are, contrary to your belief, there to administer and, if necessary, police the forum. We try, though, to walk lightly. I've pointed out to you how much effort goes into the running of the forum in the hope it would give you an idea why we don't always take kindly to certain members telling us how to do the job. In practice, we do participate as much as possible. No-one has complained to you that you criticised IDNet, we have pointed out that you criticised an admin and a member for making a mistake. It was neither necessary or helpful.
Quote from: wdforte on Apr 26, 2011, 19:08:06
So, it's goodbye from me and goodbye from him ;) :slap: :dunno:
I think you're missing the basic point that this is not an official support forum, but run by a bunch of people who spend a lot of their own time using their best endeavours to help fellow users.
As you don't appear to appreciate this, it's just as well you're saying goodbye.
I'm not an IDNet fanboy, but I like most other visitors to this forum, appreciate the hard work and honest toil put in by the guys.
Quote from: wdforte on Apr 26, 2011, 19:08:06So, it's goodbye from me and goodbye from him
We have taken that as 'wdforte' / 'Q' / 'Quandam's departure from the forum, so, for security, have locked both of his IDNetters accounts accordingly.
Just to clarify and in case anyone was wondering, we've established that 'wdforte' and 'quandam' are one and the same user. Posting under two identities is expressly forbidden here and on most forums, not just because of the obvious deception, but also because it creates a potential security issue.
Oh hum, here I am again.
My reply today from IDNet:=====
BT have come back to us late last night confirming your VP is not over utilised. As such we will now need our attention to causes of local interference.
The next steps are to test the following:
Disconnect all devices from all sockets in the premises except the filter and router which should be in the master socket, I note from your posts you do not have a test socket.
If you have Sky Plus now is the time to disconnect it.
Take portable radio tuned to white noise on Medium Wave and walk around the premises, when it comes near anything kicking out interference it will make a squeeling/static noise.
An alternate filter
An alternate modem/router (if you choose, a test kit can be with you by tomorrow afternoon if we get it out to you before 3pm today.)
======
Roughly what my answer will be:
I only have ONE socket, the only devices in it are the filter, the 'phone and the router. I have not had Sky + connected to the socket for a good year now.
I already tried a new filter.
I was too late seeing the email to take up the test kit offer, though I thank you for the offer.
The only two things I have not done are change the router or walk round with a radio.
I am not going to walk round with a radio checking for noise and I do not believe it is my router. I do not believe it is interference or my router because my router is behaving fine.
The BT speed tests since the bank holiday weekend have all been fine and consistent. I simply do not see how the router would misbehave or interference manifest itself over a three-day period solely at the start of peak time then suddenly behave itself once peak time dwindled. I just cannot see the logic of it being my router or interference.
My theories are that one of these was responsible:
- There was a problem with IDNet's network, one that was not obvious.
- BT were responsible in one way, shape or form.
I appreciate that if IDNet has tried to detect faults on its network and found none, and BT come back saying everything is fine (I personally would not trust them as far as I could throw them) then it makes it difficult to nail this issue.
It does feel to me though, that IDNet has simply batted this problem back to me, probably because they have exhausted their own resources for discovering the problem.
How do I feel about all this? Anxious and worried that come the weekend it is going to happen to me again. I feel that because I will not walk around with a radio or try another router that IDNet will not bother to assist further if it happens again until I do walk round with a radio and try another router. But at the risk of sounding monotonous, I do NOT believe it is my router or interference - if the problem was regular and consistent no matter what the time of day was, then I would have been happy to do both and I would have seen the logic of doing it.
I need to have full and working access this bank holiday weekend to do my online CISCO Academy CCNA course and NetLabs- I have an online TMA to complete and submit by Tuesday. I am sincerely hoping that this problem does not arise again, because if it does and I suffer the same lack of support as last weekend, I will seriously consider moving to another provider asap for both my broadband and phone line.
What am I hoping for? That it was a one-off incident and will not happen again.
If you wont look for interference or try a different router just to see, then you are not going to get any further, it could be interference and you don't know your router is really running fine unless you are an engineer and have tested it, by doing what IDNet asks you will confirm or deny if these are the problems. Its up to you but I would take the test kit when you can and try it out, only then can IDNet say for sure what the issue is, also you should not really print out what idnet send to you, I'm guessing that's part of "Please note that the content of any personal message you receive is confidential and may not be revealed to a third-party, or posted in the forums" although I could be wrong and an admin will have say over that.
What have you got to lose? If you do find its your router of interference then you are sorted, its not like its hard work, excuse me for being blunt but these people are trying to help, and if you wont try the tests out you cant really expect anymore help from the forum, or IDNet.
The tests IDNet have asked you to do are standard procedures designed to eliminate any faults with your own equipment. If it comes down to a BT visit, you would be liable for charges of around £160 if a fault was found with your equipment, or indeed, if no fault is found, and that's what IDNet are trying to avoid for you. If you won't do the tests, then it will be difficult for them, or us, to help you any further.
Emphasis on what Simon said, if you're overconfident that it is not a problem on your part then go ahead and tell IDNet you want a BT engineer to visit. Keep in mind that they will charge in most cases if a fault was traced in your home.
Might be a good idea to run Routerstats for a while and see how (or if) the noise fluctuates. It might give you more insight into what's happening and when.
If this is a local problem, Tina, it will move with you if you change to another BT-based ISP. I'd advise you, therefore, to avoid getting tied in to a long contract. A change may cure the problem, it may not. OTOH, using a comprehensive self-test routine will establish if there is an issue. If you don't want to follow the advice - which is the same that I would have given you - then neither IDNet nor we can help you further.
QuoteThe BT speed tests since the bank holiday weekend have all been fine and consistent. I simply do not see how the router would misbehave or interference manifest itself over a three-day period solely at the start of peak time then suddenly behave itself once peak time dwindled. I just cannot see the logic of it being my router or interference.
The neighbours may have been running some noisy electrical equipment - I know this because I
did wander around with an AM radio, it happens every Sunday.
QuoteMy theories are that one of these was responsible:
- There was a problem with IDNet's network, one that was not obvious.
- BT were responsible in one way, shape or form.
The first hypothesis is highly improbable. A fault that affects just one or two users isn't feasible, given that we all share most of the components on the network. The second is possible, especially if BT are carrying out an exchange upgrade.
QuoteIt does feel to me though, that IDNet has simply batted this problem back to me, probably because they have exhausted their own resources for discovering the problem.
IDNet will be happy to get a BT engineer out to you, but there's a real risk of it costing you some £200. If you won't try the self-diagnostics (which are designed to minimise the risk of you incurring that charge) then that's all they can now do.
QuoteHow do I feel about all this? Anxious and worried that come the weekend it is going to happen to me again. I feel that because I will not walk around with a radio or try another router that IDNet will not bother to assist further if it happens again until I do walk round with a radio and try another router. But at the risk of sounding monotonous, I do NOT believe it is my router or interference - if the problem was regular and consistent no matter what the time of day was, then I would have been happy to do both and I would have seen the logic of doing it.
I didn't believe it was my router either when I had a problem. Until I did the radio test and found the power supply was generating RFI noise. The power bricks are very cheaply made in most cases.
I would do the tests and save the money, as Rik said. Home routers can do odd things and are cheaply made, their power supplies can cause all sorts of issues and probably produce weird harmonics, in this day and age and with such costs involved, problem solving yourself is a much better idea.
I was looking back at some old posts and see you suffered badly during some of the football matches with very poor throughput,although I've never seen exchange congestion cause the problems you experienced at the weekend plus with the fact that BT say the Exchange/VP is not congested.
I have considerable sympathy with the situation that the OP finds herself in. I have a slightly issue but it has resulted in me tearing the house apart; buying and fitting new faceplates and filters; digging out an old MW radio and trying 3 routers to prevent the random disconnects and relatively slow speeds that I am experiencing. My router's inbuilt spectrum analyser shows little RFI in the ADSL2+ spectrum yet I slowly get a build up of unrecoverable errors which trips the router every 1 to 3 days. My downstream SNR has stubbornly sat at 15 for 3 weeks yet 2 days ago it dropped to 11.
Support's conclusions have varied from a noisy external line - to a faulty router - to router incompatibility with the MSAN (Infineon 7.27.14 H0 0).
They have now offered to send out an engineer - at potential cost to me - to prove what exactly? My connection rate sits firmly within BT Wholesale's very wide speed parameters so is this not just a licence for BT to make money? The alternative is that I move to a LLU provider who doesn't use BT Wholesale's network. If I was in business, I would have to question why BT-dependent ISPs are not getting together to apply more pressure on BT Wholesale.
I am also in contact with my router manufacturer's support team who have suggested that I install their line/router support tool. I will probably run this when I am next away from home for a few days with the router plugged in to the test socket (again - the last time using the test socket made no difference). I will then decide whether it is time to switch ISPs. There has to be a better way of getting ADSL- related problems resolved.
THIS. I have nothing but admiration for folk on here who have got these lovely high speeds, i enjoyed a 6mb connection all winter and now that the warmer weather is here.. my connection has dropped to a sub 2mb link and averages around 1.5mb I have done much the same by fitting my house with filtered faceplates, re-wired all links to twisted pair, replaced routers and done the MW radio test a number of times too.. i simply cannot find any evidence inside my house of anything that should be causing my issues.
Its enough to drive a guy insane trying to work it out, my previous house i got just under 8mb connection, and that house is no more than half a street away. That old house had a copper telephone extension cable too, and certainly not the twisted pair solution i've got here now. but this house i'm in now? newer house entirely, and its like its cursed for broadband.. i have honestly had nothing but trouble.. i went with idnet as soon as i moved in, and being honest i have not felt happy about my connection here at all.
So what is a guy to do? I am extremely I.T. proficient, and feel i've exhausted everything i can to try to get some kind of 'normal' connection, i keep hearing that all is ok from idnet and bt.. and yet never do i ever feel like things are fixed. I was more than happy to settle for a 5-6mb connection, but this erratic up and down connection i'm enduring is enough to make me consider moving house.. a huge extreme.. it really IS that bad. I would however prefer that my ISP and BT work together that bit more.. even if it meant a little more expense from ME.. just to get me fixed once and for all, but i suspect that things will go just as they have for the last 4 years.. one party pushing the problem at the other and the other proclaiming its not their problem either.
WELL who's problem is it? when all checks out my side, what exactly should a customer have to do just to get the product they pay monthly for?
Quote from: Ardua on Apr 28, 2011, 09:31:52
I have considerable sympathy with the situation that the OP finds herself in. I have a slightly issue but it has resulted in me tearing the house apart; buying and fitting new faceplates and filters; digging out an old MW radio and trying 3 routers to prevent the random disconnects and relatively slow speeds that I am experiencing. My router's inbuilt spectrum analyser shows little RFI in the ADSL2+ spectrum yet I slowly get a build up of unrecoverable errors which trips the router every 1 to 3 days. My downstream SNR has stubbornly sat at 15 for 3 weeks yet 2 days ago it dropped to 11.
Support's conclusions have varied from a noisy external line - to a faulty router - to router incompatibility with the MSAN (Infineon 7.27.14 H0 0).
They have now offered to send out an engineer - at potential cost to me - to prove what exactly? My connection rate sits firmly within BT Wholesale's very wide speed parameters so is this not just a licence for BT to make money? The alternative is that I move to a LLU provider who doesn't use BT Wholesale's network. If I was in business, I would have to question why BT-dependent ISPs are not getting together to apply more pressure on BT Wholesale.
I am also in contact with my router manufacturer's support team who have suggested that I install their line/router support tool. I will probably run this when I am next away from home for a few days with the router plugged in to the test socket (again - the last time using the test socket made no difference). I will then decide whether it is time to switch ISPs. There has to be a better way of getting ADSL- related problems resolved.
Has your attenuation or noise margin changed, Jase?
(sorry i know that sounded like rant), its just all v. frustrating rly. sadly.
But what are your router stats like?
I think that Rik was correct in an earlier post when he said that most of us now feel that broadband is such an essential part of our lives that it has to be as assured as water, gas, electricity, Sky and the good old telephone. This is the challenge that ISPs now have to address. Supply is more than making the right connections and hoping for the best. Surely, a full line test should be an integral part of any switchover. If my line, through distance etc, is only capable of supporting a speed of 'X' then this is what I should be basing my decision to switch ISPs on. Using just about every speed estimator that I can find, I have an estimate of speeds ranging from 13 to 20Mbps on ADSL2+: yet I get about 30 to 50% of this. At this point, the ISP will cry foul as it cannot be held responsible for internal wiring; filters and router selection. The answer to the last point is that the ISP should always supply a router. The internal wiring issue is more difficult but if the 'test socket' is the ISPs' preferred connection point then why hasn't BT come up with a better NTE5 box design which does not require users to take off a faceplate to get at it? I do not take the front off a power socket to get at a purer supply of electricity. Equally, where users cannot sensibly place the router close to the 'test/master socket' then why aren't ISPs offering a BT-approved extension kit - for self fit or engineer fit at cost? Even Sky Digital will send out an engineer to fix a problem- and it rarely charges for doing so - with a monthly premium which is similar to that of broadband. It doesn't provide me with a digital service with half a picture and put it down to poor internal wiring, interference etc. They would never get away with it. Why should the broadband supply sector be any different?
Time to put hobby horse back in the stable. ;)
I agree with most of what you say, but it could be equally argued that an electricity supplier can't be held responsible for appliances within the home being fit for purpose, or in working order.
;D
One problem is that there are so many more possible points of failure with ADSL than any other utility, including the user's equipment or internal wiring, the 'last mile', the exchange equipment, backhaul, radius servers etc - all before the ISP becomes directly involved. On top of that, we're trying to get something out of Victorian technology that it was never designed to provide. The use of the test socket is not really about purity but demarcation, that's where BT will test, so ISPs will ask you to test there too - trying to ensure you don't get a bill for an engineer visit. BT, of course, have no such interest, which is why they don't make access easier and, indeed, are moving to external demarcation points on new builds. ISPs will supply a router if people want one, most people prefer to buy their own as it tends to be cheaper. However, it can still go wrong, as can a filter, both are being built down to a price rather than to a high spec, it's why most routers are still 10/100 when most modern machines have gigabit NICs. Equally, ISPs could supply extension kits, but most people are going to buy one at B&Q etc.
I've been through my fair share of poor Sky boxes and the need to escalate to CEO level to fully agree with you on Sky, but there is a significant difference between the two media. Sky is broadcast, one transponder feeds everyone, while the hardware at the other end will also have been supplied by Sky. The variables are few, and the potential points of failure are limited.
The bottom line, really, is that BT is not competent to run the network, at least imo, and should be subject to much tighter regulation. Sadly, Ofcom seem to feel their job is to protect BT from scrutiny. :(
Quote from: Ardua on Apr 28, 2011, 10:50:00
I think that Rik was correct in an earlier post when he said that most of us now feel that broadband is such an essential part of our lives that it has to be as assured as water, gas, electricity, Sky and the good old telephone. This is the challenge that ISPs now have to address. Supply is more than making the right connections and hoping for the best. Surely, a full line test should be an integral part of any switchover. If my line, through distance etc, is only capable of supporting a speed of 'X' then this is what I should be basing my decision to switch ISPs on. Using just about every speed estimator that I can find, I have an estimate of speeds ranging from 13 to 20Mbps on ADSL2+: yet I get about 30 to 50% of this. At this point, the ISP will cry foul as it cannot be held responsible for internal wiring; filters and router selection. The answer to the last point is that the ISP should always supply a router. The internal wiring issue is more difficult but if the 'test socket' is the ISPs' preferred connection point then why hasn't BT come up with a better NTE5 box design which does not require users to take off a faceplate to get at it? I do not take the front off a power socket to get at a purer supply of electricity. Equally, where users cannot sensibly place the router close to the 'test/master socket' then why aren't ISPs offering a BT-approved extension kit - for self fit or engineer fit at cost? Even Sky Digital will send out an engineer to fix a problem- and it rarely charges for doing so - with a monthly premium which is similar to that of broadband. It doesn't provide me with a digital service with half a picture and put it down to poor internal wiring, interference etc. They would never get away with it. Why should the broadband supply sector be any different?
Time to put hobby horse back in the stable. ;)
You cannot compare Sky digital with an ISP, sky provide the dish, the wiring and the box, so any failure is their responsibility. Debating Why BT does not provide an easier socket does not solve an issue, send them an email, you will probably find its so kids playing on the floor don't accidentally break it, or people wil little technical expertise find they have bashed it with a hoover, who knows. As far as supplying a router.. a lot of people have specific needs and prefer their own equipment, and I doubt an ISP can guarantee that their router will be a perfect match for every exchange either.
If an ISP gave you a BT approved extension kit and it didn't work as well as it should people would blame the ISP for their bad wiring skills possibly, opening up a whole can of worms, so I can see why they don't do that. You want it elsewhere in the house, sort it out yourself, that's fair as I see it.
No ISP can guarantee what condition your line is in, the distance tells you the optimum, not the reality and unless every ISP requested BT to do a survey of every line in the country they will never know till you are connected. Providing Broadband is not like providing Electricity or Sky, or your Gas supply, its very different and you cannot link the two with analogy's to each other in my opinion.
A few more comments and I will then get my coat. My point is that the line up to my NTE5 box is installed and maintained by BT (analogous with Sky). If the ISP checked the line for faults prior to each installation (and any that were detected were fixed), supplied and installed the router and tested the installation then I would have a complete system - again similar to Sky. At the moment, it is a complete mess. I listen for noise on my phone line: if I hear anything, I report it to my phone provider who alerts BT Openreach (but do not mention broadband). If my ISP suggests an engineer visit, then they call in BT Openreach. Both visits are at potential cost to me. Where do the ISPs sit in this relationship? Is my contract with them nothing more than up to 'x' amount of bandwith in a month and that is it or should there not be a guarantee of at least a minimum speed? My point is that the current type of ISP business model is unsustainable in the longer term. If the ISPs do not realise this then it is probably time for OFCOM and The Competition Commission to get involved. My guess though is that some other major player will see the potential for a fully integrated and supported broadband service - probably cable - which over time will diminish the power of BT Wholesale.
Isn't it called Virgin Media? ;)
Woops - sorry, I forgot my umbrella and there is rain in the air. Rik - you may well be right but I wouldn't rule out Sky. With Anytime +, it would be in Sky's business interest to build a robust (and fast) broadband network to back up their satellite service. I cannot see them relying on BT to provide this for them. Personally, I shy away from an all-in-one (BB,TV, phone) service but ..... :-\
Looks like sky are building/extending their network http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/sky_bt_ducts_poles_trial/
Just seen a similar comment re Sky on Thinkbroadband's news page. Where does this leave the niche ISPs? Surely, it has to be the provision of a 'Rolls-Royce' inclusive service where one person deals with all issues as and when they arise within the monthly fee. I am no great fan of Sky's installers (they moan constantly about the price they get for the job) but they generally arrive on the day that they say they will and do what is required. I have had my dish moved three times by a special heights team to get around a neighbour's conifer. The last time by one man who had a fear of heights!!
Quote from: Glenn on Apr 28, 2011, 13:28:45
Looks like sky are building/extending their network http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/sky_bt_ducts_poles_trial/
Believe that when it happens :)
Rik, i'm at work at the mo, will check the attenuation later, among other stats.
Its nice to have a lifeline for info from idnetters, good forum this, and loads of info in various posts too.
I noticed my exchange is down for june for FTTC of which i'm hoping will at least completely address the cabinet to the exchange side of things.. the current junction box is just over the road from where our row of houses is, so i would hope the new fiber junction boxes will sit next to that. It seems to be underground cable from the junction box to the houses where i live, so no overhead cables or drop cables. I hope to god its not the underground wiring, as i can see a whole book of excuses from BT as to how it 'couldn't possibly be that' before i get one engineer who takes the time to just try. last time i had a bt engineer out, he said if i got trouble again to get my ISP to order an SFI visit from BT.
So its kinda here i am again, and my broadband is.. awful.
Quote from: Ardua on Apr 28, 2011, 10:50:00
... The answer to the last point is that the ISP should always supply a router....
I went to IDNet purely because I can choose my own router. Don't want BT phorm or any snooping. Don't want people "helpfully changing" my settings I spent ages getting how I want them. Don't want cheap made in a basement tat.
To add to what most people are commenting on... how exactly do you suppose we get BT to change? It has a monopoly. It has backing from major industry and political parties. It's got everyone else's hands tied. They are pushing against the small ISPs even more so. By removing the tools available, and the explanations given to customers! IDNet no longer have as much detail as before. They literally get told by BT that the "last mile" is either "OK (at least 512k)" or "Not OK (no service)". So if it is the exchange/wires, there is nothing anyone can do anymore. :(
I'd love to see all the copper/ally' replaced. I'd love to see ASDL2+/21cn rolled out universally. :dunno:
I think Wholesale/Openreach needs to be publicly owned again so that it can be held accountable or an even better model would be that used by LINX and LoNAP, all members have equal ownership (including BT Retail) so that the infrastructure is run for the mutual.
An interesting fact is that LINX was originally set up by BTInternet and Pipex to allow them to exchange customer traffic without having to pay for expensive American transit.
I'd love to see BT/Openreach broken up and built into a proper supplier of communication infrastructure, preferably owned by all isp's and other communication companies but with no overall ownership by any one company. I'd also like to see the Government MAKE them build and maintain a brand new system available cheaply for everyone.
I'd also like to win the lottery, become young again, be able to run around and be attractive to the opposite sex; alas somethings remain as a dream. ;D
Ps. Pctech just siad that as well. ::) ;D
The BT bit is not likely to happen Alf while BT have an MP on their board they can use as a well paid human shield and a member of NuLab no less.
Just had a read through this rather entertaining thread ;D and a few comments come to mind.
First is the question of IDNet support. I suspect most of the non-business customer base joined a number of years ago, when some large and incredibly bad ISPs were haemorrhaging customers who were desperately trying to find an ISP that wasn't completely terrible, even if it cost more. In those days, IDNet unambiguously had the highest reputation for customer support of any ISP. Those customers came to expect that level of service, and unfortunately it hasn't proved possible to sustain it. I don't know whether it's a staffing issue, an attitude issue, a financial issue or something else entirely, but for whatever reason IDNet customer service has lost some of its lustre. In the good ol' days, if you had a problem you put in a call to support, and often even out of hours you'd a soothing reply from Miriam(!), or an informative reply from Simon or Tim, and there was a clear sense that these were good guys who would go that extra mile to help, and I personally experienced them doing so. Now, there's more of an impression that they're just vaguely irritated at having been disturbed by a customer problem, and an increased reliance on the default checklist-type response.
I'm quite sure Simon and Tim have found BT Wholesale/Openreach absolutely dreadful to rely on and incredibly frustrating to work with, and this could well be why there's some sense of almost resignation in the customer service now. It's a situation where you'd be inclined to think "what's the point of my offering a good service if I no longer have the tools or the muscle to actually get the problem resolved for real?". I think that's a mistake, incidentally; the point of customer service is to make the customer feel better, and in the case of a problem, to acknowledge the problem, describe what will be done to resolve it and what the limitations are on that in terms of the Openreach timetable. Ignoring a customer is always a PR disaster. Nevertheless, I do feel a degree of sympathy for IDNet and their difficult position, because almost all of the problems over the past year(s) have been nothing to do with their network or anything over which they have control, but rather unannounced maintainance work, BT screwups or fires in Telehouse (which seems to be the most fire-prone building in Britain).
I absolute agree with the above posters that Wholesale/Openreach should be changed from its current private monopoly. It also seems clear to me that an ISP should be able to deal with all aspects of a fault as far as possible (along the lines of LLU offerings at the moment), and insofar as a central administration is needed for exchanges (which is understandable), it should be a government agency that works 24/7 on behalf of all telecommunications companies equally, regardless of size or support contract.
Meanwhile, Simon and Tim should cheer up a bit ;D, and have at least one support staff member available 24/7 on the end of a phone line, even if there's nothing that can be done to resolve Wholesale/Openreach faults at that time (and bear in mind, many other faults and support issues CAN be resolved at those times). It wouldn't cost that much to have a stand-by service like that, and would make a big difference to customers with problems. Oh, and update the service status page when problems are flagged. An inaccurate/out-of-date service status is worse than none at all. ;)
Quote from: karvala on Apr 28, 2011, 18:32:58
Now, there's more of an impression that they're just vaguely irritated at having been disturbed by a customer problem, and an increased reliance on the default checklist-type response.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
On once occasion I called and spoke to a female who was extremely helpful, listened to my questions and took her time to answer them accurately and carefully. On the other occasions I've spoken to a male who really couldn't have cared less and simply wanted to get off the phone as soon as possible.
I'm not sure who these individuals are but if Idnet had more like the female and less like the male then that would makes things better overnight.
Quote from: karvala on Apr 28, 2011, 18:32:58
Oh, and update the service status page when problems are flagged. An inaccurate/out-of-date service status is worse than none at all. ;)
I agree with your latter point completely - though it doesn't help those whose connections are down.
This particular case, though, is a bit more complex. Sync speed and profile were fine, there was a working connection, albeit slow. The out of hours support message makes it clear that only failed connections will be dealt with until the next business day, in this case, Tuesday. OOH support received six calls during the weekend, four of which were from Tina, there was no network fault either with BT or IDNet.
There was nothing that could be done to help her, ie the line tested OK, she doesn't pay for enhanced care, and we all signed up knowing that IDNet don't provide 24/7 support officially, though, like you, I've had calls, emails or texts at all kind of hours in the past, including the recent past.
It is increasingly hard for IDNet to work as it used to. BT recently restricted the tools available to them for trouble shooting, and the 21CN tools weren't working at all today. Personally, I find it hard to dismiss the thought that BT is abusing its position to squeeze smaller ISPs out of the market.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 28, 2011, 18:43:22
It is increasingly hard for IDNet to work as it used to. BT recently restricted the tools available to them for trouble shooting, and the 21CN tools weren't working at all today. Personally, I find it hard to dismiss the thought that BT is abusing its position to squeeze smaller ISPs out of the market.
I think you are absolutely correct Rik, restrict what they can do and make them look bad, customers will then defect to us as the reliable alternaitve and the owners will get so frustrated they will shut up shop.
I think its more important than ever that we support the last remaining independent ISPs otherwise we'll be left in BT Retail/TalkTalk/BE traffic managed hell.
Quote from: pctech on Apr 28, 2011, 19:00:40
I think its more important than ever that we support the last remaining independent ISPs otherwise we'll be left in ..... BE traffic managed hell.
Be don't use any form of traffic management whatsoever.
I stand corrected, for the moment at least.
O2 do though on their branded service which uses the same infrastructure.
Well put Karvala: an accurate, brief, clear and concise exposition. Perhaps it is time for a bit of this: http://www.38degrees.org.uk/
Public pressure worked for forests and it is having an effect on NHS reforms. The PM talks about The Big Society: I do not think that this is caveated with (as BT sees it). :slap:
Quote from: pctech on Apr 28, 2011, 19:13:25
I stand corrected, for the moment at least.
O2 do though on their branded service which uses the same infrastructure.
You cannot call Home Connect "managed". :eek4:
Ok point taken about BE.
I''ve started a petition on 38 Degrees to campaign for the nationalisation of the telecoms infrastructure.
If you'd like to sign it click here (http://38degrees.uservoice.com/forums/78585-campaign-suggestions/suggestions/1769771-nationalising-the-uk-telecoms-infrastructure-to-pr)
In an attempt to get back onto the original subject, one of my concerns re the problems that I have been experiencing with ADSL2+ over the past month or so is one of Support bridging the gap between those who know a lot about ADSL (in its various guises) and those of us who know very little and would like to keep it that way. I have no wish to Ping, Tracert, lower my SNR or change my MTU or DNS. With the precursors to ADSL2+, I just plugged my router in and the line stayed connected (for months on end) always at the maximum synchronisation rate. Happy days.
ADSL2+ is totally different as I know to my time and cost. Connection rates have been up and down and re-synchronizations frequent (at least by ADSL Max standards). When the connection breaks, the connection rate and the IP falls immediately thanks to the great God BT (and his friends MSAN and DSLAM). This continues until router decides to fight back - 'enough, enough' is the call and following yet another router-initiated disconnection (possibly because I threatened a move to Sky Unlimited) the connection rate soars by 3000 and 2 days later the God BT catches up and raises the IP by 2000. Yet despite this increase, God's Speedtester (when he is at home) shows an actual download of 11454 on a connection rate of 11924 and IP of 10000. As Support has access to my BT Speedtests, line stats, disconnection rates etc they could do themselves a lot of favours, when questioned, by explaining to less knowledgeable customers whether this pattern of events is normal for an ADSL2+ line? If not, then what can the ISP and customer do together to resolve the issue? ??? This is what I am looking for from a niche ISP offering a premium cost service.
BT's speed tester is an appalling piece of coding, under-resourced and frequently inaccurate. Sadly, BT's rules are that it's the only one that counts. :(
As to not wanting to know much about ADSL, sadly it's more like a car than a light switch, ie you have to know a bit about the basics of how it works and what to check if there's a fault, or incur charges for someone else to make the checks for you. Sadly, as yet, the AA don't do ADSL recovery - though it could be a nice earner for them. :)
Quote from: Gary on Apr 27, 2011, 23:53:53
If you wont look for interference or try a different router just to see, then you are not going to get any further, it could be interference and you don't know your router is really running fine unless you are an engineer and have tested it, by doing what IDNet asks you will confirm or deny if these are the problems. Its up to you but I would take the test kit when you can and try it out, only then can IDNet say for sure what the issue is, also you should not really print out what idnet send to you, I'm guessing that's part of "Please note that the content of any personal message you receive is confidential and may not be revealed to a third-party, or posted in the forums" although I could be wrong and an admin will have say over that.
What have you got to lose? If you do find its your router of interference then you are sorted, its not like its hard work, excuse me for being blunt but these people are trying to help, and if you wont try the tests out you cant really expect anymore help from the forum, or IDNet.
Gary, there is nothing in the reply from IDNet I have posted that I would think would cause a problem to them. I have had a few replies, but I have not posted those because they were more personal to both me and IDNet. The one I posted merely stated a series of actions and so I think you are being over sensitive about that.
I will keep repeating it here that if I have broadband access all week and then it goes down for a few days and BT speed tests show there is a problem at that time then there is a problem at that time.
If that problem then goes away and then everything is working OK again I cannot see for the life of me how that can be attributed to my router. On the question of interference, I do not understand this whole business of interference - interference from where? I do not have devices that operate and cause interference so what is the point of waking around my house with a radio looking for it? I would like to point out that if my problem did not exhibit the pattern it did and the problem was ongoing then I would of course without a shadow of a doubt, be prepared to get another router as I too would then be suspicious that it was the router. As for what you say about the forum and IDNet withdrawing their support because I was not prepared to try a new router for that issue that was during a set period of time or because I will not walk around with a radio, then I all I can say to that is I, and I think, many other users on this forum would be very disappointed and dismayed,
I am aware of the help I have had from the forum and I do appreciate it, however, I do not think that you should be saying that you would not blame the forum or IDNet if they chose to abandon me when I need help if there are particular tests I will not do when to me, those tests for the particular problem do not seem logical.
No. I am not an engineer, but if my broadband works consistently every day for weeks on end then goes down for three days and then works consistently again, I do not need to be an engineer to see that the router works fine.
I would hope that this forum continues to support me, incidentally, I have 3 people who use IDNet through my recommendation and whenever anyone says they have a problem with their current broadband service, I always give them IDNet's web address and praise them and the forum highly.
What kind of praise and recommendation could I continue to give to people do you think if I told people, 'oh yes, IDNet are great, only if you do have a problem and you do not do all the tests that they want you to do regardless of whether or not you think they are relevant given the issue, IDNet and the IDNet forum wiil refuse to help you further'
Quote from: Simon on Apr 28, 2011, 00:44:59
The tests IDNet have asked you to do are standard procedures designed to eliminate any faults with your own equipment. If it comes down to a BT visit, you would be liable for charges of around £160 if a fault was found with your equipment, or indeed, if no fault is found, and that's what IDNet are trying to avoid for you. If you won't do the tests, then it will be difficult for them, or us, to help you any further.
I will do the tests if the problem exhibits itself in a more consistent pattern.
In the meantime, I would appreciate it if someone could please clarify exactly what interference it would be that a radio would pick up and how this could affect my broadband? Thanks.
QuoteWhat kind of praise and recommendation could I continue to give to people do you think if I told people, 'oh yes, IDNet are great, only if you do have a problem and you do not do all the tests that they want you to do regardless of whether or not you think they are relevant given the issue, IDNet and the IDNet forum wiil refuse to help you further'
It's not strictly true to say IDNet won't help you, Tina, they have offered to get an engineer out to you, but warned you how much it will cost. They can't do more testing than they have, if you won't test at your end, then there is nothing that anyone can do to help you, either at IDNet or in the forum. It may not be your equipment, it may not be local interference, but if you won't help to eliminate those possibilities, then what else can be done?
Intermittent faults are a nightmare, and we always need to look for any possible cause, however remote the possibility.
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 29, 2011, 10:19:34
I will do the tests if the problem exhibits itself in a more consistent pattern.
In the meantime, I would appreciate it if someone could please clarify exactly what interference it would be that a radio would pick up and how this could affect my broadband? Thanks.
ADSL works in the MW radio band. The signal is modulated on top of the voice signal and sent to the router (which isn't filtered) while the voice-level signal is filtered of the ADSL signal and passed to the phone. MW is subject to interference, it's generally at its worst after dark, but the effects are around at any time. In the past we have found such obscure items as the motor on a neighbour's treadmill causing issues, but central heating, washing machines, fluorescent lights, Xmas lights and DECT base stations have all been know to create a problem. We should ignore power supplies in computers, monitors or even routers themselves either.
Quote from: sof2er on Apr 28, 2011, 07:22:24
Emphasis on what Simon said, if you're overconfident that it is not a problem on your part then go ahead and tell IDNet you want a BT engineer to visit. Keep in mind that they will charge in most cases if a fault was traced in your home.
As I said before, I will be happy to perform tests if the problem exhibits itself consistently and not just over a weekend only to return to full use when the weekend is over.
What would be the point in getting in an engineer when currently no faults are happening? My broadband is working fine, it has been all week, should it go down again this weekend then I can only think that it definitely points to a congestion issue or BT undertaking maintenance work that is affecting my exchange.
If it is the case that a bit of BT equipment had gone down last weekend or that some maintenance work had been done then what good would an engineer's visit had done, what would it prove?
I would like to point out that my exchange is very small and therefore, it is most likely that I am the sole IDNetter using that exchange, which means that IDNet would not be getting loads of support calls or people on this forum with the same issue.
Should this issue arise again over the weekend then I will be in the same place as I was last weekend (I fervently hope it does not) where I am totally at the mercy of whatever is causing it because there is no technical support for my problem from IDNet or from BT. And then if the problem has 'gone away' come the end of the holiday weekend, then we are back in the same place not being able to find a fault because the fault - or whateve cause it - no longer exists.
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 29, 2011, 10:42:46
As I said before, I will be happy to perform tests if the problem exhibits itself consistently and not just over a weekend only to return to full use when the weekend is over.
What would be the point in getting in an engineer when currently no faults are happening? My broadband is working fine, it has been all week, should it go down again this weekend then I can only think that it definitely points to a congestion issue or BT undertaking maintenance work that is affecting my exchange.
If it is the case that a bit of BT equipment had gone down last weekend or that some maintenance work had been done then what good would an engineer's visit had done, what would it prove?
I would like to point out that my exchange is very small and therefore, it is most likely that I am the sole IDNetter using that exchange, which means that IDNet would not be getting loads of support calls or people on this forum with the same issue.
Should this issue arise again over the weekend then I will be in the same place as I was last weekend (I fervently hope it does not) where I am totally at the mercy of whatever is causing it because there is no technical support for my problem from IDNet or from BT. And then if the problem has 'gone away' come the end of the holiday weekend, then we are back in the same place not being able to find a fault because the fault - or whateve cause it - no longer exists.
Just because you are the only (possibly) idnetter on your exchange doe not mean you would be the only one seeing problems, if there was an issue at IDNet many users would see the same, like the Cogent issue when site s would not load properly, also tbh what harm doe sit do to be preemptive and check that all is OK? If there is an issue that is intermittent as Rik says they are a nightmare but checking with a radio and changing router is not exactly a long job, then if it does happen again you have done all you can, this way you have to start all over again checking everything changing routers looking for interference, contacting IDNet, if you had do it now its done, that simple which would make the next step a lot easier and less prolonged. Each to their own though.
I guess IDNet may know more about what tests are relevant than some users, you were not sure how interference can effect your line, which shows they knew something you didn't. So maybe those tests were relevant after all. Our old line was awful at night due to a streetlight outside our old house that was right by the side of our telephone line from the House to the poll, it always caused the noise on the line to increase and then the line would drop.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 28, 2011, 08:35:46
If this is a local problem, Tina, it will move with you if you change to another BT-based ISP. I'd advise you, therefore, to avoid getting tied in to a long contract. A change may cure the problem, it may not. OTOH, using a comprehensive self-test routine will establish if there is an issue. If you don't want to follow the advice - which is the same that I would have given you - then neither IDNet nor we can help you further.
With all due respect, I will keep saying it, I am prepared to do that if the problem exhibits itself outside of certain hours. If it happens again this weekend, then I will also be prepared to do it, even if only to stop people saying they will not help me further if I don't!
Quote from: Rik on Apr 28, 2011, 08:35:46
I didn't believe it was my router either when I had a problem. Until I did the radio test and found the power supply was generating RFI noise. The power bricks are very cheaply made in most cases.
But surely Rik, if this were the case in my situation then the problem would exhibit itself consistently...
Quote from: Gary on Apr 28, 2011, 08:45:40
I would do the tests and save the money, as Rik said. Home routers can do odd things and are cheaply made, their power supplies can cause all sorts of issues and probably produce weird harmonics, in this day and age and with such costs involved, problem solving yourself is a much better idea.
Same reply I gave rik about power supply applies here. I would expect a power supply problem to exhibit at other than certain hours.
Quote from: Ardua on Apr 28, 2011, 09:31:52
I have considerable sympathy with the situation that the OP finds herself in. I have a slightly issue but it has resulted in me tearing the house apart; buying and fitting new faceplates and filters; digging out an old MW radio and trying 3 routers to prevent the random disconnects and relatively slow speeds that I am experiencing. My router's inbuilt spectrum analyser shows little RFI in the ADSL2+ spectrum yet I slowly get a build up of unrecoverable errors which trips the router every 1 to 3 days. My downstream SNR has stubbornly sat at 15 for 3 weeks yet 2 days ago it dropped to 11.
Support's conclusions have varied from a noisy external line - to a faulty router - to router incompatibility with the MSAN (Infineon 7.27.14 H0 0).
They have now offered to send out an engineer - at potential cost to me - to prove what exactly? My connection rate sits firmly within BT Wholesale's very wide speed parameters so is this not just a licence for BT to make money? The alternative is that I move to a LLU provider who doesn't use BT Wholesale's network. If I was in business, I would have to question why BT-dependent ISPs are not getting together to apply more pressure on BT Wholesale.
I am also in contact with my router manufacturer's support team who have suggested that I install their line/router support tool. I will probably run this when I am next away from home for a few days with the router plugged in to the test socket (again - the last time using the test socket made no difference). I will then decide whether it is time to switch ISPs. There has to be a better way of getting ADSL- related problems resolved.
I have big sympathy for you. You seem to have gone through an awful lot of effort and cost to try and resolve your issues.
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 29, 2011, 10:55:52
Same reply I gave rik about power supply applies here. I would expect a power supply problem to exhibit at other than certain hours.
Depends what else you have on near to it at certain hours, or if its in a extension or surge suppressor what else is plugged into it that may go on at different hours, it could be that you turn a light on and your cabling is picking up interference, what kind of cabling are you using from the BT socket to your router, is it shielded, is it near other electrical cables which can cause interference. With respect you spent last bank holiday asking for help and being unhappy with IDNet, now they give you an option to cross an issue off the list, whether its showing up now or not makes no difference, it means you would have peace of mind knowing its not at your end. Now you seem to be not wanting that help, that's like having a strange noise in your car, and then it goes away, so you think all is fine, well sometimes the calm is before the storm so getting things checked out before more problems may occur is always sensible, after all you will only be upset if you line goes down again, but this time you will need to do those tests before you can go forward and that would just slow down getting things fixed in the long term. Anyway have a good bankholiday and hope your line behaves itself.
Quote from: Ardua on Apr 28, 2011, 13:24:19
Woops - sorry, I forgot my umbrella and there is rain in the air. Rik - you may well be right but I wouldn't rule out Sky. With Anytime +, it would be in Sky's business interest to build a robust (and fast) broadband network to back up their satellite service. I cannot see them relying on BT to provide this for them. Personally, I shy away from an all-in-one (BB,TV, phone) service but ..... :-\
Personally I would like to see the BT behemoth die in the gutter! All the years they have been raking it in and look what they have done for us all over the years - not. They cannot even give us mere mortals access to any kind of technical support in this country any longer, other than, it seems, an engineering visit that could cost you half a mortgage payment. Instead, we have to endure the agony of going through an Indian call centre, which is one reason why I left them.
Quote from: Glenn on Apr 28, 2011, 13:28:45
Looks like sky are building/extending their network http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/sky_bt_ducts_poles_trial/
I for one, would be off like a rocket if they installed here (not likely to though :(), my son has them. There is 24/7 support, he says when calling them - not that he hardly ever has a problem, there is a measure of turning off router, etc, but then an engineer is called if they cannot resolve it on the phone, and there is no charge to the customer for that. If they suspect a router issue, then a new one is sent out straight away. Their call centre is I think in Nottigham.
The cheapest package they do for 10 meg is £21 for broadband (I get 5-6 meg, and yes, before anyone points it out, I know I am non-LLU). If you have a phone line with them on its own, the phone line costs £13 a month, but if you have them together, the broadband comes down to £13.50 per month, making a total of £26.50 per month for both broadband and telephone line.
I pay IDNet over £18 per month broadband and around £11 a month line rental, a combined cost of £29 per month, or thereabouts, with no OOH support, no router supplied initially and no replacement router supplied when things go wrong, other than a 'free' test kit that has to be returned at my incovenience and expense after 7 days.
My son gets a consistent 19-20mbps speed and pays £18.50 per month for his broadband and £13 per month for his phone line.
Now, that is what I call value for money and pretty painless minor hassle if a problem arises.
Like I said, I would be off like a shot to Virgin Media if they installed in my area.
I actually remember when cable was first installed, because my area I lived in at the time was one of the first to get it, I belive the company at that time was Diamond Cable.
Why I wonder did BT not install its own cable years ago - Diamond Cable installed to my mind, what must have been around 18 years ago....? What the heck has BT done since then? From what I have seen on posts it seems that much of their new offerings are just as prone to failure as their old stuff.
Quote from: pctech on Apr 28, 2011, 19:00:40
I think you are absolutely correct Rik, restrict what they can do and make them look bad, customers will then defect to us as the reliable alternaitve and the owners will get so frustrated they will shut up shop.
I think its more important than ever that we support the last remaining independent ISPs otherwise we'll be left in BT Retail/TalkTalk/BE traffic managed hell.
I would never defect to BT - they are appalling.
Reading this and other forums and BB-related websites, one of the main issues that users cannot get their minds around is the randomness of ADSL faults. If my phone rings and the internet disconnects then I have a clear cause and effect. Similarly, if my internet dies at 6.30am and again at 4.30pm then my brain would logically suggest that I check my CH pump for RFI. What Tina and I have been experiencing is random issues where there is no logical explanation for what is happening. AAISP, et al, advertise the fact that they monitor their customers' lines with sophisticated tools that PING, if that is the right term, every minute or so. Many IDNet users use the TBB Broadband Checker and RouterStats. My question to those who might know is 'what tools does IDNet have at its disposal to monitor the performance of its customers' lines'? Surely, rather than saying 'it was a router-initiated disconnect at your end' they should be able to add what I think is missing at the moment; ie, there was a build up in noise leading to a drop in SNR probably because of ........'
Having flown many types of aircraft over the last 40 years with simple but extremely effective flight data collection and playback, I cannot believe that there isn't sophisticated monitoring equipment out there to watch over what is happening on two pieces of twisted wire. What has AAISP got that IDNet hasn't? ???
Quote from: Rik on Apr 29, 2011, 10:27:20
It's not strictly true to say IDNet won't help you, Tina, they have offered to get an engineer out to you, but warned you how much it will cost.
No, maybe not Rik, but it is what you and others on here seem to be suggesting will/should happen.
I will do everything IDnet expects me to do next week, should this prolem arise again this weekend regardless of whether or not I agree with it, I cannot be any more accommodating than that.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 29, 2011, 10:27:20
ADSL works in the MW radio band. The signal is modulated on top of the voice signal and sent to the router (which isn't filtered) while the voice-level signal is filtered of the ADSL signal and passed to the phone. MW is subject to interference, it's generally at its worst after dark, but the effects are around at any time. In the past we have found such obscure items as the motor on a neighbour's treadmill causing issues, but central heating, washing machines, fluorescent lights, Xmas lights and DECT base stations have all been know to create a problem. We should ignore power supplies in computers, monitors or even routers themselves either.
Thanks for the explanation Rik. Given all the items in your list are all normal household gizmos, I am amazed that any of us ever gets a proper working connection at any time of the day or night.
Quote from: Gary on Apr 29, 2011, 10:50:06
Just because you are the only (possibly) idnetter on your exchange doe not mean you would be the only one seeing problems, drop.
I do understand that Gary, I did not make myself clear, what I really meant was that if the issue was with my exchange, then it woud not be transparent to IDNet as I am probably the only IDNetter on it. that fact alone could almost nail it down to an exchange issue.
Just a suggestion, Tina, but if 24/7 support is a main criteria for you, then perhaps it might be worth looking at somewhere like PlusNet, who seem to offer a comparable phone / broadband package? I think they are owned by BT, though. :-\
http://www.plus.net/packages/
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 29, 2011, 12:28:11
I do understand that Gary, I did not make myself clear, what I really meant was that if the issue was with my exchange, then it woud not be transparent to IDNet as I am probably the only IDNetter on it. that fact alone could almost nail it down to an exchange issue.
Do you know if any of your neighbours has issues last weekend?
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 29, 2011, 10:53:57
But surely Rik, if this were the case in my situation then the problem would exhibit itself consistently...
The problem was intermittent, possibly temperature related, possibly a 'final straw'.
Quote from: T_M_D on Apr 29, 2011, 12:24:01
Thanks for the explanation Rik. Given all the items in your list are all normal household gizmos, I am amazed that any of us ever gets a proper working connection at any time of the day or night.
So am I, as I mentioned earlier, we are trying to use a Victorian technology to deliver a broadband service. The system was not designed for the job and it is quite amazing that it works as well as it does. To add a little perspective, I live in the centre of Milton Keynes. Because it was cabled with aluminium when the infrastructure was laid, I get a 2M (ADSL) or 3.5M(ADSL2+) speed, despite being in a fast growing conurbation. However, don't feel sorry for me, because my immediate neighbours get speeds of 512k-2M. We're all connected to the same exchange, of course, but I was an early adopter and had a friendly engineer who found me the best pairs he could. Those who followed got what was left -
that's how crude the technology is I'm afraid. Until we move to fibre, preferably to the premises, we will always be subject to the whims of rain, wind, corrosion, poor maintenance and BT routes which can take very different paths from house to exchange.
Quote from: Gary on Apr 29, 2011, 11:12:26
Depends what else you have on near to it at certain hours, or if its in a extension or surge suppressor what else is plugged into it that may go on at different hours, it could be that you turn a light on and your cabling is picking up interference, what kind of cabling are you using from the BT socket to your router, is it shielded, is it near other electrical cables which can cause interference. With respect you spent last bank holiday asking for help and being unhappy with IDNet, now they give you an option to cross an issue off the list, whether its showing up now or not makes no difference, it means you would have peace of mind knowing its not at your end. Now you seem to be not wanting that help, that's like having a strange noise in your car, and then it goes away, so you think all is fine, well sometimes the calm is before the storm so getting things checked out before more problems may occur is always sensible, after all you will only be upset if you line goes down again, but this time you will need to do those tests before you can go forward and that would just slow down getting things fixed in the long term. Anyway have a good bankholiday and hope your line behaves itself.
I have one socket, nothing else near it or in my house that is new that I have not had running for years.
The cable I have from my bt socket to my router is a standard modern grey router cable.
Yes, of course I
will be upset if my line goes down again and if it does do so again over this next weekend with the same symptoms, my views will not have changed other than to strengthen my view that last week was down to BT working on a piece of equipment or them doing some maintenance work around here, and indeed, if it does go down again, the first thing I will do is drive around looking for their Open Reach vans in the area. I would visit the exchange as well, if I knew where it was housed!
Like I keep saying, I will do all the tests requested if this problem arises again this weekend, including walking around with a radio, and yes, yours and others' opinions might be that I should have done that before, but I made that choice and I am happy with that choice and I have explained my reasons for that choice. I would appreciate it if people would stop haranguing me about it now. You have all made your positions on that matter crystal clear.
I will tear myself away from this forum soon and get on with my stuff!
Quote from: Simon on Apr 29, 2011, 12:30:31
Just a suggestion, Tina, but if 24/7 support is a main criteria for you, then perhaps it might be worth looking at somewhere like PlusNet, who seem to offer a comparable phone / broadband package? I think they are owned by BT, though. :-\
http://www.plus.net/packages/
Do you know if any of your neighbours has issues last weekend?
Now then Simon, you wouldn't be trying to get rid of me would you ::)
I am not about to rush off and change provider just yet. If I do so, it will be after a careful weighing up. I would not move to any supplier that has a call centre abroad, no offence to the people in them. Also, I will visit their customer forums first and monitor it for a week or so - which incidentally, is what I did before deciding to join IDNet.
Quote from: Ardua on Apr 29, 2011, 12:10:28
Reading this and other forums and BB-related websites, one of the main issues that users cannot get their minds around is the randomness of ADSL faults. If my phone rings and the internet disconnects then I have a clear cause and effect. Similarly, if my internet dies at 6.30am and again at 4.30pm then my brain would logically suggest that I check my CH pump for RFI. What Tina and I have been experiencing is random issues where there is no logical explanation for what is happening. AAISP, et al, advertise the fact that they monitor their customers' lines with sophisticated tools that PING, if that is the right term, every minute or so. Many IDNet users use the TBB Broadband Checker and RouterStats. My question to those who might know is 'what tools does IDNet have at its disposal to monitor the performance of its customers' lines'? Surely, rather than saying 'it was a router-initiated disconnect at your end' they should be able to add what I think is missing at the moment; ie, there was a build up in noise leading to a drop in SNR probably because of ........'
Having flown many types of aircraft over the last 40 years with simple but extremely effective flight data collection and playback, I cannot believe that there isn't sophisticated monitoring equipment out there to watch over what is happening on two pieces of twisted wire. What has AAISP got that IDNet hasn't? ???
I also have what seems to be the over-simplistic view as well, that when a problem arises, tests and monitoring could be done during the time the problem is happening to detect such things as noise interference, router issues, etc... It seems like it should be so much simpler than what it is doesn't it, but from what everyone is telling us, it obviosly isn't.
Quote from: Simon on Apr 29, 2011, 12:30:31
Do you know if any of your neighbours has issues last weekend?
Unfortunately, the ones who have broadband were away :(
Quote from: Rik on Apr 29, 2011, 12:42:48
So am I, as I mentioned earlier, we are trying to use a Victorian technology to deliver a broadband service. The system was not designed for the job and it is quite amazing that it works as well as it does. To add a little perspective, I live in the centre of Milton Keynes. Because it was cabled with aluminium when the infrastructure was laid, I get a 2M (ADSL) or 3.5M(ADSL2+) speed, despite being in a fast growing conurbation. However, don't feel sorry for me, because my immediate neighbours get speeds of 512k-2M. We're all connected to the same exchange, of course, but I was an early adopter and had a friendly engineer who found me the best pairs he could. Those who followed got what was left - that's how crude the technology is I'm afraid. Until we move to fibre, preferably to the premises, we will always be subject to the whims of rain, wind, corrosion, poor maintenance and BT routes which can take very different paths from house to exchange.
Yes, I accept the speed limitations here as well as I know I am lucky to enjoy under normal conditions between 4-6 meg.
I am jealous of what my son gets with Virgin Media though and I have said I am moving in with him. Good OOH support, good equimpment, good fault-finding and free router replacement, free engineer visits, often free upgrades, good and consistent speeds and connection - what more could anyone ask for. If I could find that nirvana with a non-cable supplier, I would obviously avail myself of it.
My son has also recently been informed by Virgin Media that he can move up to 30mbps if he moves to their DOCSIS 3.0 Infrastructure and totally new equipment. The cost to him for doing all that? A paltry £30. Now that is what I call a fantastic offer.
Pit that against the offer of a free test kit that has to be returned at cost to me after 7 days.
Ooops, here I go again inviting a raft of indignant responses for my unfair digs at IDNet.... :slap:
T_M_D If you try the radio interference method just run the radio along the adsl and telephone lines as that is where you will be picking up any interference. I had an intermittant fault and after trying the radio method along my adsl line found it was a faulty dec telephone with spurious signals, my firend had a similar problem and found it was in his neighbours house in the wall right next to his adsl line ( and old tv caused the interference. Good luck in your endevours ( by the way PlusNet isn't that bad these days) ;D
If you do move to Plusnet use their pro package as the others get very slow at peak times due to traffic management.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 29, 2011, 10:27:20
We should ignore power supplies in computers, monitors or even routers themselves either.
I think you meant to say We should
not ignore power supplies in computers, monitors or even routers themselves either.
Colin
And you would be right. :)
At this point, I do need to come to IDNet's defence. They kindly did send me a test router which arrived within a day. It had firmware problems that I possibly could have solved with a firmware update; however, I didn't want to register a device that I didn't own. The test router, a Netgear 1000, replaced a 3300 that I returned as when it disconnected - which it did frequently - it didn't show any failures and it didn't reconnect of it's own accord. My new router has inbuilt DECT to rule one of IDNet's concerns - it is not a Netgear. My current router has now been up for 2 days: SNR and errors have fallen and speeds have increased by 3 Mbps in a week. What have I done - nothing. There clearly has been a change in the condition of my line but I have no idea what or whether it will deteriorate again.
PS I did all the RFI checks and the biggest source of interference was the LCD clock on my cooker. The radio had to be held about 3inches away to hear it.
Quote from: Ardua on Apr 29, 2011, 14:57:58
At this point, I do need to come to IDNet's defence. They kindly did send me a test router which arrived within a day. It had firmware problems that I possibly could have solved with a firmware update; however, I didn't want to register a device that I didn't own. The test router, a Netgear 1000, replaced a 3300 that I returned as when it disconnected - which it did frequently - it didn't show any failures and it didn't reconnect of it's own accord. My new router has inbuilt DECT to rule one of IDNet's concerns - it is not a Netgear. My current router has now been up for 2 days: SNR and errors have fallen and speeds have increased by 3 Mbps in a week. What have I done - nothing. There clearly has been a change in the condition of my line but I have no idea what or whether it will deteriorate again.
PS I did all the RFI checks and the biggest source of interference was the LCD clock on my cooker. The radio had to be held about 3inches away to hear it.
You dont have to register a device to get Netgear firmware, there is an option that lets you skip that and download the firmware straight away...best not to update their router anyway though I think.
Quote from: Gary on Apr 29, 2011, 15:05:06
You dont have to register a device to get Netgear firmware, there is an option that lets you skip that and download the firmware straight away...best not to update their router anyway though I think.
Thanks - I wasn't aware that.
Is this a Eureka moment? I have just had a chat with a guy in Belgium about my router and my current stats and his response was along the following lines:
- your downstream LA of 15db reveals that your distance to the DSLAM is about 1100 meters.
- max. downstream rate on ADSL2+ at this distance should be about 22 mbps
- your sync problems are due to the borderline UPSTREAM SNR (7)
Only remedy is to lower the UPSTREAM troughput, which will lead to a higher UPSTREAM SNR
This can be done in different ways:
- or you get your ISP to set a cap on your upstream troughput (e.g to 800-900 kbps)
- or you get your ISP to give you Annex M in stead of Annex A (this gives you more upstream margin).
Make sure your cabling is correct. Ideally your modem is connected to the first socket in your home, with a central splitter from where all additional wiring starts.
You should absolutely avoid any stubs (unused wires) connected to your DSL line before the splitter.
IDNet Support may disagree but is this not the conversation that they should have been having with me over the past month or so?
IDNet might be able to regrade you to ASDL profiles, on ASDL2+. It sometimes helps. however, I am not sure that they can limit the upload speed. As it's a BT owned exchange/equipment. They might be able to adjust it, but the "automatic" manager will kick in when ever something changes or updates. :dunno:
Quote from: Ardua on Apr 29, 2011, 17:25:19
This can be done in different ways:
- or you get your ISP to set a cap on your upstream troughput (e.g to 800-900 kbps)
- or you get your ISP to give you Annex M in stead of Annex A (this gives you more upstream margin).
I don't believe that BT allow either option, but check with support to be sure.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 29, 2011, 17:48:46
I don't believe that BT allow either option, but check with support to be sure.
Rik - I hate to ask this question but do LLU operators have this type of flexibility if BT Wholesale does not?
The answer to that is probably yes as they have full control over their kit in most cases and even in a wholesale situation the other providers do allow tweaking of line parameters I understand.
I've not had time to read this thread here but it does mention an upstream cap whether it's LLU or not not sure http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/3936479-adsl2.html?fpart=11&vc=1
Quote from: Rik on Apr 29, 2011, 17:48:46
I don't believe that BT allow either option, but check with support to be sure.
IDNet doesn't have an annex m capability Rik as I asked them some months back.
Quote from: Steve on Apr 29, 2011, 18:44:57
I've not had time to read this thread here but it does mention an upstream cap whether it's LLU or not not sure http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/3936479-adsl2.html?fpart=11&vc=1
God my head hurts - this is stuff with high technical detail well outside of my ken!
Steve - thanks for this helpful info. The implication from the last page of this topic is that the upstream speed can be capped on a BT circuit:
'Finally at 4.30pm today they have also had to cap my upstream to 444 kbps and the line is finally stabilised.' (BTBroadband)
There is also reference in the responses to BT doing line tests and detecting errors outwith the property and then sending out an engineer.
The irony here is that my router is clearly very worried about its future as it has remained synchronized now for 2 Days and 7 hours with downstream FECs of 395 CRCs 0.12min (3 in last 15 mins) and upstream FECs of 560 CRCs 0.16/min (6 in last 15 mins). Downstream LA and SNR 15 and 12 and upstream LA and SNR 9 and 7.
Quote from: sobranie on Apr 29, 2011, 19:19:36
IDNet doesn't have an annex m capability Rik as I asked them some months back.
We can now offer Annexe-M but not all lines qualify and, if yours does, we cannot tell you before hand what upstream speed will be achieved nor how much downstream will be sacrificed to achieve the upstream increase.
We are not able to increase the SNR on the upstream.
To return to the original theme of this thread; I can confirm that our support desk is closed on Easter Sunday as on all other Bank Holidays. Someone earlier (I think it was Griff) stated that we were closed for two weeks over Christmas. We did close our office but our Support Desk was not closed, except for the Bank Holiday days. For the period between Christmas Day and New Year we extend our standard Out-of-hours Service i.e. send us an email or, if you can't, leave a voicemail and we'll call you back.
Our OOH service is staffed by a rota of Duty Engineers working from home who have access to the BT Fault Management systems and can initiate BT Engineer Visits for our Business Customers who have subscribed to Enhanced Care. Whenever possible we will always endeavour to help a residential customer out-of-hours too.
Thanks for the clarification, Simon. :)
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Apr 30, 2011, 08:30:46
We can now offer Annexe-M but not all lines qualify and, if yours does, we cannot tell you before hand what upstream speed will be achieved nor how much downstream will be sacrificed to achieve the upstream increase.
We are not able to increase the SNR on the upstream.
To return to the original theme of this thread; I can confirm that our support desk is closed on Easter Sunday as on all other Bank Holidays. Someone earlier (I think it was Griff) stated that we were closed for two weeks over Christmas. We did close our office but our Support Desk was not closed, except for the Bank Holiday days. For the period between Christmas Day and New Year we extend our standard Out-of-hours Service i.e. send us an email or, if you can't, leave a voicemail and we'll call you back.
Our OOH service is staffed by a rota of Duty Engineers working from home who have access to the BT Fault Management systems and can initiate BT Engineer Visits for our Business Customers who have subscribed to Enhanced Care. Whenever possible we will always endeavour to help a residential customer out-of-hours too.
The thrust of my chat was that capped upstream SNR giving an upstream speed of between 800 to 900 would in the short term lead to a reduction in downstream speed but, with greater line stability over a period of days, BT's profiling would increase the downstream connection speed and up the IP profile. In sum, my downstream is only 50% of the estimated speed for my line with a LA of 15 because of upstream errors leading to a loss of synchronization. If upstream SNR cannot be pro-actively managed by the ISP then what can the user do to increase upstream SNR? ???
Nothing that I'm aware of.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 30, 2011, 10:51:03
Nothing that I'm aware of.
Between a rock and a hard place me thinks :'(
Quote from: Ardua on Apr 30, 2011, 11:24:13
Between a rock and a hard place me thinks :'(
That's BT for you :(
Despite my earlier post I couldn't think that anything had changed regarding support, although possibly an increase in subscriber numbers may have forced a rethink. Good to hear from Simon_IDNet that nothing has changed.
If the max upstream rate is reduced i.e a rate cap then upstream SNR will as a result of this be higher?
You'd think so, Steve, wouldn't you.
If a person requires out of hours help, is a Phone Message going to be picked up by staff working at home?
Yes.
I thank you.
Whether anything is done, though, depends on the nature of the fault.
I am very happy to report that I have had completely problem-free Internet/broadband access for the entire bank holiday weekend. A constant, robust and healthy consistent 5+ mbps This strengthens my view that BT was somehow responsible for my loss of service last weekend.
I might purchase a USB modem in case something like this happens again.
The dismaying thing is that if this was a BT issue, then it shows how completely at the mercy of them we often are. They could (and no doubt will) make something like this happen again one day and it seems that when they do, the consumer and ISPs are equally as helpless at getting to the bottom of things
Anyway, my thanks to all those who helped as much as they could during the issue.
A note to IDNet - I think it is time you reconsidered your OOH policy and got some support in place. It isn't as if you are a cheap provider, you ought to be able to do something given the amount you charge your customers.
Good to hear your connection is holding up. Unfortunately BT seem to be a law unto themselves. I regularly lose the net after midnight and there's no question in my mind that it's due to maintenance. The problem is they never seem to inform anyone prior to carrying it out.
Quote from: T_M_D on May 02, 2011, 23:35:38
A note to IDNet - I think it is time you reconsidered your OOH policy and got some support in place. It isn't as if you are a cheap provider, you ought to be able to do something given the amount you charge your customers.
You have the forum, IDNet can do nothing over a weekend apart from check their end and if it was at their end you would see it here big time, weekend support its really a placebo effect anyway as you would still have to wait till Monday till the fault was reported. You Pay Your Money and You Take Your Chances.
Quote from: Gary on May 02, 2011, 23:59:55if it was at their end you would see it here big time
Ah yes... memories of one or two occasions and some
really busy topics ;D
Quote from: T_M_D on May 02, 2011, 23:35:38
A note to IDNet - I think it is time you reconsidered your OOH policy and got some support in place. It isn't as if you are a cheap provider, you ought to be able to do something given the amount you charge your customers.
I think the amount charged reflects that there is no need for them to traffic shape or throttle as they are able to buy sufficient capacity from BT.
Quote from: Bill on May 03, 2011, 00:36:11
Ah yes... memories of one or two occasions and some really busy topics ;D
;D
Quote from: T_M_D on May 02, 2011, 23:35:38
A note to IDNet - I think it is time you reconsidered your OOH policy and got some support in place. It isn't as if you are a cheap provider, you ought to be able to do something given the amount you charge your customers.
Problem is, Tina, unless you're paying for enhanced care, in most situations there's nothing IDNet could do anyway, as BT would not investigate until the next working day. As Lance says, the 'premium' you pay with IDNet is dedicated to providing a network that is not over-subscribed.
Here we go again - speed suddenly rapidly dropping.........down to 340k
Hi Tina
Your DSL connection has been stable with a Profile of 6Mbps and no disconnections since 24th April. Are you connecting to your router wirelessly or via a network cable?
And, how are you measuring the speed i.e. where did you get the speed reading from, was it a speedtester or a website download?
Simon
Rik, have PM you.
Rik's away for the weekend, Rick.
Quote from: Simon on May 07, 2011, 18:27:55
Rik's away for the weekend, Rick.
Thanks Simon
Hi all,
Thanks for all of you jumping in to help so quickly, firstly, the speed is such that it is up and down like a yoyo, one test 340, next 220, 440, what I know is that as I am heavily involved in research on the net I am noticing how long I have to wait for web pages to load, sometimes it is not 100% painful, just slow, other times I think, that's it it's is going to go as bad as it was before. I still think that might happen so what I will say now is this so's none of you are wasting your time on it, I am going to use it for as long as I can and then forget about it and just live with it. There is no way I am going to let it consume my life like it did before. I reckon it is good 'ol BT at it again. From now on, I am not going to bother to report any faults unless it continues of course and becomes obvious it is a problem that needs sorting rather than just one that mysteriously goes away after a certain period of time.
Also, I am thinking of getting a USB modem and if I can get something to work here, a dongle and PAYG for it. I really, really find it difficult and time consuming and pretty fruitless running endless speed checks and going into router stats, I would rather just have a back up option and only report a problem when it is likely that it can be traced and fixed by IDNet and BT.
My first port of call, when I get a problem, assuming I can access it at the time, will always be to check the forum in case there is something going on that is affecting the wider IDNet broadband user base so that I can at least eliminate that as a reason for the issue.
I am off now to enjoy the rest of the weekend, internet or no internet!
Have a great weekend all :gb: :bye:
I used to have no connection for 2 months every week twice on a random day midnight for an hour up to three hours. It doesn't appear that BT tells when they are doing work.
The funny thing is when they do say there's work my internet connection remains fine after midnight and when they don't say anything it could go down.
Quote from: sof2er on May 07, 2011, 20:20:01
I used to have no connection for 2 months every week
Your life must be going by awful quick.
;D
Quote from: T_M_D on May 07, 2011, 19:14:30
Also, I am thinking of getting a USB modem and if I can get something to work here, a dongle and PAYG for it. I really, really find it difficult and time consuming and pretty fruitless running endless speed checks and going into router stats, I would rather just have a back up option and only report a problem when it is likely that it can be traced and fixed by IDNet and BT.
If you're considering a USB modem, it would really be better to do as others have suggested and get a spare router instead.
You really do need to do what you have refused to do, namely eliminate an intermittent router fault as the cause of your problem. The nature of scientific investigation is to experiment without prejudging what you believe to be the cause.
If you were to use a USB modem, it would of course be wired rather than wireless. A wired router would give you the same solid, wired connection but with some further advantages. A good one, which works perfectly for me, is the Netgear DG834 (NOT DG834G - the plain DG834 is wired only and that is what you want as your backup. It is available pretty cheap from even PC World). I have two of them. One is a backup that I can use to eliminate router failure as a cause of any problems I might get! I have never had any router-caused problems but I have a scientific training ;-)
The other advantages of a wired router over a USB modem are:
The router includes the protection of its integral hardware firewall; a USB modem needs the protection of a separate software firewall on the PC.
A USB modem requires you to install a modem driver on the PC, itself leading to potential conflicts and problems, whereas a router needs no drivers.
Whenever you restart your PC or turn it off, the USB modem disconnects from the exchange. This will reduce your continuous up time and may lower your profile, thus slowing your connection down further. A router remains connected regardless of whether the PC is running or not.
I agree with the rest of your strategy, only contacting support if you get a persistent problem that is not resolved by using your new backup router.
Mobile dongles are NOT really a solution for indoor internet access despite what the mobile operators claim.
For starters the bulding construction can interfere with the signal and the less signal the you get the slower it will go.
In addition cells serving residential areas are likely to be heavily loaded and so again the speed is likely to be reduced as lots of people share the radio path and backhaul.
Quote from: T_M_D on May 07, 2011, 16:51:36
Here we go again - speed suddenly rapidly dropping.........down to 340k
Does anyone else share your connection, Tina? Do you do any video streaming or P2P?