I thought I'd better give it time to bed in before making any judgements. Now I have my opinion of it is that in my case, it's abysmal. My ping was at first a little erratic but seems to have settled to sub 10ms levels, about the same as I was getting on ADSL. Upload speeds are fantastic, rock solid at just under 8 Mbp/s. Download speeds are somewhat erratic. They veer from blindingly fast to almost nothing. If a progress bar is anything to go by, downloads appear to often drop away to nothing and they do so on infrastructure that I have almost full control of e.g. my dedicated servers at a remote location.
I could live with the problematic download speeds but what I can't live with is the continual disconnections. I do a huge amount of work on remote servers which requires me to communicate with those servers constantly, sometime many times a minute. I'm forever waiting for a response which often times out. It's the same with general web browsing. Quite often it can take literally minutes to connect to web page or the connection times out.
My tbb broadband quality monitors look abysmal, huge slabs in the red with sporadic packet loss the rest of the time (I rarely if ever turn my modem off).
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/08e4dd8843be126e83bbe579694d7f84-14-09-2010.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/08e4dd8843be126e83bbe579694d7f84-14-09-2010.html)
My router log shows the frequency of disconnections.
[Admin login] from source 192.168.1.2, Saturday, Sep 18,2010 00:42:02
[Internet disconnected] Saturday, Sep 18,2010 00:20:17
[Internet idle-timeout] Saturday, Sep 18,2010 00:20:17
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Saturday, Sep 18,2010 00:00:04
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 17,2010 23:59:24
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 17,2010 23:59:24
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:41:52
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:38:09
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:38:09
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:31:54
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:28:25
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:28:25
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:22:09
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:18:21
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:18:21
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:12:07
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:07:54
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 17,2010 22:07:54
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.3)] to MAC address 7C:C5:37:43:46:64, Friday, Sep 17,2010 21:53:42
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 17,2010 21:52:07
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 17,2010 21:48:09
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 17,2010 21:48:09
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 17,2010 21:41:54
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 17,2010 21:37:52
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 17,2010 21:37:52
In retrospect I should have had FTTC enabled on my second line but it was decided that FTTC should remove any issues on the line it was installed on. This is the same line that wouldn't support a WBC connection. The line tests as fine from a BT engineer's perspective and I was even switched to another pair last year.
I'll speak to support next week but I'm not sure what can be done about it. I need to abandon FTTC and stick with ADSL on the other line. The problem is the year's contract, I don't really know where I stand with that.
I think you're stuck with it, Zap. BT impose it on IDNet, so they have no room to manoeuvre. It's a bit like paying for the WBC upgrade and finding it doesn't work for you. You've got to get support to bombard BT until they fix the product. I've never known BT launch a new product without teething problems, so I think it's time to apply pressure.
That looks like some god awful packet loss. I'm on a fairly quiet exchange and even I get packet loss in the evenings and weekends, just nowhere near that level (hell, I'm not even on ADSL2). Do you know if it's specifically outgoing or ingoing packets that are dropped or is it just entirely random?
If they can't supply a stable connection they are in breach of contract pure and simple.
It becomes sue IDNet and let them sue BT... However, check the small print.
Interesting info Zap as I've been looking into FTTC too in the event it becomes available near me and is cheaper.
There are way too many cases where connections are useless and/or worse than the previous ADSL Max line. It is clear they are rushing out a product they can't cope with.
Why are we using FTTC anyway, it should be fibre to home and do away with all the wires that cause issues.
I was wary of making the move to WBC immediately, I'm increasingly feeling the same about fibre, especially as I'm a light user who doesn't often need high speeds.
It's a real pity this may reflect badly on IDNet. It's like if the road outside your shop has roadworks or pot holes. It's your customers who suffer, but you cannot do anything about it. I'm sure if IDNet put in the cable, they'd get it right first time, or not go to the trouble in the first place. By that, I mean they would give you a Chopper with flags and everything, and not a chocolate bicycle!
Quote from: esh on Sep 18, 2010, 15:28:11
That looks like some god awful packet loss. I'm on a fairly quiet exchange and even I get packet loss in the evenings and weekends, just nowhere near that level (hell, I'm not even on ADSL2). Do you know if it's specifically outgoing or ingoing packets that are dropped or is it just entirely random?
I'm not 100% sure but IDNet don't see any packet loss if they ping my modem. This is what I'm getting from my end:
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping idnet.net -n 100
Pinging idnet.net [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 25, Lost = 75 (75% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 7ms, Maximum = 9ms, Average = 7ms
C:\Users\zappaDPJ>
So it's outgoing packet loss. What about the gateway (first hop)? I guess that gets loss too. 75% loss is entirely unuseable. As I remember you don't get statistics from the dodgy BT supplied modem, is that right?
Is that modem still hot Zap?
Just thinking aloud, and probably even more rubbish than usual, but the ping is sent out on the upstream link, and returned on the downstream I think. So could that indicate an issue with one half of your link, so it's invisible to IDNet, but causing you problems?
I've just run 100 pings to you, Zap:
Ping statistics for xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 19ms, Maximum = 53ms, Average = 20ms
No packet loss at all.
Quote from: esh on Sep 18, 2010, 15:44:22
So it's outgoing packet loss. What about the gateway (first hop)? I guess that gets loss too.
They get insanely hot unless positioned to sit vertically which is what I've done. Oh and never put one on top of a router, you could literally burn you hand on it :eek4:
[EDIT] Damn, Things are so bad at the moment I'm having to c&p into forums from Word or risk losing everything on a time out :rant2:
Quote from: Rik on Sep 18, 2010, 15:49:07
I've just run 100 pings to you, Zap:
Ping statistics for xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 19ms, Maximum = 53ms, Average = 20ms
No packet loss at all.
That's what IDNet see Rik but look at the ttb log. Perhaps it's due to the sporadic nature of it?
I know, it's confusing isn't it. Perhaps IDNet could leave a machine pinging you for 24 hours, which would remove any problems with the TBB tester from the equation?
That sounds like a good idea. Do you know if they able to see the dropped connections with FTTC?
No domestic use appliance should be getting that hot.
I had a Billion router for a week, it got red hot and kept dropping connection, I pointed a desk fan at it and when cooled it reconnected. I got a refund as it was unfit for purpose. I would be seriously worried about having a modem left on that could potentially catch fire.
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 18, 2010, 15:54:04
That sounds like a good idea. Do you know if they able to see the dropped connections with FTTC?
I'm sure they can, I think. ;)
Might be a silly suggestion, but do you have another PSU you could try with the router, Zap?
Quote from: Simon on Sep 18, 2010, 16:03:29
Might be a silly suggestion, but do you have another PSU you could try with the router, Zap?
I'm sure I do Simon, I can give it a try. I'm not so worried about now that I have it sitting vertically on its own. It's still hot but nothing like it was when it was on top of the router.
Quote from: DorsetBoy on Sep 18, 2010, 15:33:10
There are way too many cases where connections are useless and/or worse than the previous ADSL Max line. It is clear they are rushing out a product they can't cope with.
Why are we using FTTC anyway, it should be fibre to home and do away with all the wires that cause issues.
BT are supposed to be rolling out FTTP near me Dorset but trying to get any solid info about when I can subscribe is like getting blood from a stone.
Actually, I think it's harder, Mitch. :(
A Manager from Zen responded to me on tbb and asked me to PM my user ID and he said he was going to pass it to the Fibre Broadband Product Manager but heard nothing, I expect they are keeping until they launch FTTC in 11 days so their website says.
:fingers:
Hope so, going to remain with themj because of the excellent tech support (just like IDNet) and the capping as I know when I get on that my bandwidth use will rocket as intend to use Xbox Live quite a bit.
Quote from: pctech on Sep 18, 2010, 16:14:53
BT are supposed to be rolling out FTTP near me Dorset but trying to get any solid info about when I can subscribe is like getting blood from a stone.
We were supposed to have ADSL2+ in 2009 ............ yeah right. Now we have 4 separate teams of BT types (some in suits) ladders,tools and clipboards, inspecting poles,boxes, junctions etc. when asked they have all said it's for your upgrade to FTTP . Thing is if you ask BT they deny any knowledge of the supposed upgrade "ask your isp" is all you get.
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 18, 2010, 15:19:42
I thought I'd better give it time to bed in before making any judgements. Now I have my opinion of it is that in my case, it's abysmal. My ping was at first a little erratic but seems to have settled to sub 10ms levels, about the same as I was getting on ADSL. Upload speeds are fantastic, rock solid at just under 8 Mbp/s. Download speeds are somewhat erratic. They veer from blindingly fast to almost nothing. If a progress bar is anything to go by, downloads appear to often drop away to nothing and they do so on infrastructure that I have almost full control of e.g. my dedicated servers at a remote location.
Almost exactly the same summary as I posted a few weeks ago. It's slightly comforting to know I'm not the only one experiencing issues.
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=21762.0
When BT rolled out WBC, they didn't have the backhaul to support it and we had months of robbing Peter to pay Paul, people would see their throughput drop for no apparent reason, while others found a sudden improvement. I can't help but feel that BT are doing the same with FTTC.
I think in my case it could be two separate issues. BT's network capacity is almost impossible to judge because any speed test is going to be reliant on other factors. That said I own a number of servers which sit in a rack in docklands. Although most of them have applications running on them I currently have one that is effectively empty and it makes a great speed test tool. I can see some congestion in BT's network at peak times but it's not anything I'd worry about. At worst I lose just under half of my potential download speed. What I'm more concerned about is when those downloads simple stop and I have enough evidence now to suggest this is occurring because I'm continually disconnecting for the the net.
It fits the pattern of what happened when I tried to connect the same line to WBC. BT's BRAS knocked it down to 256K and I'm sure that was down to continual disconnections. I believe I have a fault between the back of my BT socket and the FTTC cab which is in spitting distance. The problem is that cable has been tested as fine by BT. In fact the engineer was insistent at the time that I needed a lift and shift at the exchange. I'm sure he was wrong, I still have the same issue on different infrastructure, the only common factor being this wretchedly short length of copper.
Unfortunately I have no idea what I can do about it.
Put the facts to IDNet, Zap, and let them argue the case for you. I agree, all the evidence points to that last few yards of copper unless, of course, they've given you a bum modem.
I will do Rik, I have plenty of evidence, I just need to put it all together somehow. The worry is, if I can't get it sorted, my Broadband will be costing me around £60 a month for the next year and I'll be forced to use an 8 Mbp/s service :'(
Which is downright silly. I take it you didn't opt for enhanced care or the SLA?
I didn't Rik although I did think about it. My only resolution might be to wait for fibre to the door :eek4:
Or move to Docklands. ;)
Got a response from Zen via PM on tbb, they are putting me on the FTTP trial leads as I'm currently marked as 'to be enabled' but no RFS date yet but they'll contact me when there is one
:happy:
:fingers:
I'll just have to run a fibre over to you Rik and down to Zap.
Thanks, you should have plenty of speed to spare. :)
Quote from: .Griff. on Sep 18, 2010, 16:26:27
Almost exactly the same summary as I posted a few weeks ago. It's slightly comforting to know I'm not the only one experiencing issues.
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=21762.0
I've seen alot of FTTC users complain about the same thing from different ISP's, I think VDSL2 is more susceptible to congestion than ADSL.
Quote from: Rik on Sep 18, 2010, 17:38:47unless, of course, they've given you a bum modem.
I think it's worth trying to get a replacement modem if you can... I've just checked mine (it's wall-mounted just beside me). The top is barely tepid, the back is mildly warm. If it was coffee you'd stick it in the microwave before you drank it!
Hot is something a modem shouldn't be, imho.
Quote from: Bill on Sep 18, 2010, 19:37:15
I think it's worth trying to get a replacement modem if you can... I've just checked mine (it's wall-mounted just beside me). The top is barely tepid, the back is mildly warm. If it was coffee you'd stick it in the microwave before you drank it!
Hot is something a modem shouldn't be, imho.
I agree - warm is acceptable, hot isn't.
Insisting on a replacement modem is not an unreasonable request.
Best to request a replacement through IDNet as I've not seen any VDSL modems on the consumer market in the UK yet.
So glad it looks like I'll just be able to leapfrog it and get just have an ethernet port.
Could it be your MTU is set too high ?
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1904.msg31673#msg31673
That was something suggest by support and I did drop it marginally. I'd also forgotten about it so I might take another look. Thanks for the reminder :)
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 20, 2010, 12:02:11
That was something suggest by support and I did drop it marginally. I'd also forgotten about it so I might take another look. Thanks for the reminder :)
Changing the MTU will make no difference to your problem(s).
Support (Simon) asked me to test a range of MTU settings from 1492 (Maximum you can set it at under PPPoE) all the way down to 1350 and it made absolutely no discernible difference to latency or speed.
My bet is firmly on you having a faulty modem and I'd state a large wager on a replacement solving your connection/PL issues. The download speed issue is another matter however.
MTU is the maximum length of a packet before an ACK is required so its unlikely to affect downstream performance.
It can though if a router or server on the route has a MTU setting lower than your own, as the packets get fragmented.
While in the process of gathering up a lot of information I've had cause to phone support because all I'm getting on FTTC now is a BT wholesale message. Rebooting the router clears it but as I've just discovered it comes straight back again.
Anyway aside from that IDNet are able to see for the first time from their end that I'm continually disconnecting and they are sending me a test router to try.
:fingers:
For reference in case I need it later, a couple of Jackson Pollocks... I mean two graphs from the last 48 hours. On the plus side the connection is now completely dead which is a damn sight better than being in a situation where it works some of the time and every time it's tested by support :mad:
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/08919ab86981d4709dda2be644bd470e-20-09-2010.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/08919ab86981d4709dda2be644bd470e-20-09-2010.html)
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/c5725f11f740e3b56fc3ecd92cb37687.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/c5725f11f740e3b56fc3ecd92cb37687.html)
It's interesting (poor word choice) that when you moved to adsl2+ that it all went pear shaped and now the same again with fibre,how can it be so frustrating.
Either I'm very unlucky or there has to be something wrong with the cable between my faceplate and the fibre cabinet Steve. To be honest it's becoming an issue I am getting angry about. I had many, many years at another location where I never had a single dropped connection except for one planned outage at the exchange which dropped the line for 30 minutes. That ended three years ago when Pipex became Tiscali. Since then Internet connectivity has become such a thorn in my side I'm seriously thinking about looking for PAYE employment. I've lost far too much income in the last three years trying to work from home.
As a matter of interest, I've just read Lance's service announcement...
QuoteAs part of our network optimisation program, we are moving a transit connection from one core router to another today to further optimise our routing. We don't expect to be any disruptions to broadband connections but there maybe a brief period of routing inconsistencies whilst the new routes propagate.
Might that account for why I'm being routed to a BT wholesale message? I honestly hope not, I'd rather my FTTC connection was just dead in the water.
The routing inconsistencies has been updated to resolved
Which rather unfortunately has fixed the issue I was having earlier on :sigh:
Oh well, thanks for the update Steve. I'll see what happens when the test router arrives.
How was the adsl2+ resolved in the end.
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 21, 2010, 12:20:14
Anyway aside from that IDNet are able to see for the first time from their end that I'm continually disconnecting and they are sending me a test router to try.
Test router or test modem??!?
Modem :blush: Sorry, I was up all night wresting work in between my dodgy connection.
Quote from: Steve on Sep 21, 2010, 15:09:39
How was the adsl2+ resolved in the end.
It wasn't resolved Steve. BT BRAS pushed the line down to the minimum sync (256K) so all IDNet could do was to give me a capped service. Unfortunately that didn't work either so I stopped using the line. When I decided to go for the fibre connection it was thought that the problem would be eliminated but for whatever reason it's clearly still an issue unless as I said before I've just been very unlucky and it's a different problem.
If the problem is related, Zap, it's just a few metres of copper involved now. :dunno:
So is the Vdsl on the same line that adsl2+ failed to work on?
It is Steve.
Do you have any internal wiring?
If you do, remove the lower half of your master socket, this should disconnect only the internal wiring.
Do you still experience the disconnections?
Some people don't even realise they have extension wiring (sockets ripped out while decorating), so it is worth checking (their will be cables attached to the removable lower half).
Kev
I have nothing but the master socket. No extensions of any sort but thanks for the suggestion :)
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 22, 2010, 15:26:32
I have nothing but the master socket. No extensions of any sort but thanks for the suggestion :)
You mentioned you had a second line, does this follow the exact same route (within your property)?
At a guess, when they changed the line pair, it was from the cabinet to the exchange (which no longer carries any ADSL / VDSL signal).
I have two cables coming from a telegraph pole both of which which drop down and go straight into two master sockets.
[EDIT] That caught me out. I didn't realise that the embedded tbb line quality monitor was dynamic. I was just looking at the second image posted above thinking I don't remember it being quite that bad and noticed it's current. Quite freaky that.
Big ThinkBroadband is watching you. ;)
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 22, 2010, 16:24:49I didn't realise that the embedded tbb line quality monitor was dynamic. I was just looking at the second image posted above thinking I don't remember it being quite that bad and noticed it's current. Quite freaky that.
The "Share live graph" will do exactly that...
The "snapshot" one is supposed to stay live until midnight, then stop updating... if that's the one you used then maybe it's broke again.
Safest to use "previous days" even if you then select today's date. That seems to stop updating at midnight.
Thanks for the info Bill :thumb:
Did you receive the replacement modem Zapper?
I got sent a router in the end as it's thought for some reason my previous one was causing the disconnects. Although this one seems a lot less sensitive, if you check the bottom ttb monitor above you can see I'm still having a few issues. (It's dynamic so it shows the current state of play).
The router log appears to coincide with the ttb monitor as far as I can tell.
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 10:36:15
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 10:34:56
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 10:34:56
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 09:56:41
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 09:53:15
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 09:53:15
[Admin login] from source 192.168.1.2, Friday, Sep 24,2010 09:35:24
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 09:26:16
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 09:23:37
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 09:23:37
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 09:07:03
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 09:03:39
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 09:03:39
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:57:16
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:53:20
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:53:20
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:44:49
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:43:14
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:43:14
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:35:30
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:33:38
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:33:38
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:27:26
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:25:49
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 08:25:49
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 07:27:24
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.2)] to MAC address 00:1E:8C:3A:71:8B, Friday, Sep 24,2010 07:26:51
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 05:27:48
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 05:27:48
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 05:22:49
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.4)] to MAC address 7C:C5:37:3D:C7:5A, Friday, Sep 24,2010 05:22:41
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 05:01:55
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 05:01:55
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 04:56:50
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.4)] to MAC address 7C:C5:37:3D:C7:5A, Friday, Sep 24,2010 04:56:10
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 04:32:27
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 04:32:27
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 04:27:24
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.4)] to MAC address 7C:C5:37:3D:C7:5A, Friday, Sep 24,2010 04:27:03
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 04:08:19
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 04:08:19
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 04:03:15
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.4)] to MAC address 7C:C5:37:3D:C7:5A, Friday, Sep 24,2010 04:02:52
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:49:11
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:49:11
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:44:02
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.4)] to MAC address 7C:C5:37:3D:C7:5A, Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:43:36
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:34:55
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:34:55
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:29:52
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.4)] to MAC address 7C:C5:37:3D:C7:5A, Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:29:25
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:06:41
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:06:41
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:01:41
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.4)] to MAC address 7C:C5:37:3D:C7:5A, Friday, Sep 24,2010 03:01:29
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 02:38:45
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 02:38:45
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 02:33:44
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.4)] to MAC address 7C:C5:37:3D:C7:5A, Friday, Sep 24,2010 02:33:32
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 02:10:47
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 02:10:46
[Internet connected] IP address: 91.135.7.215, Friday, Sep 24,2010 02:05:38
[DHCP IP: (192.168.1.4)] to MAC address 7C:C5:37:3D:C7:5A, Friday, Sep 24,2010 02:05:26
[Internet disconnected] Friday, Sep 24,2010 01:46:44
[Internet idle-timeout] Friday, Sep 24,2010 01:46:44
Which router did they send to you?
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 24, 2010, 20:14:38
The router log appears to coincide with the ttb monitor as far as I can tell.
Are the times in the log GMT or BST? If they're GMT then the log and the trace tie up better.
I note that the DHCP log entries disappear about when I suspect you put the new router in... it's a pity you can't get the
reason for the disconnect from the router. Along with the line stats...
I suspect (and it's no more than that) that the new router is OK and that the disconnects in the log
may be due to the modem retraining (via DLM) now the frequent disconnects have stopped. From about midday onwards it's quite acceptable, mine was a lot worse than that for a while!
Can you run a BT speedtest to see what your IP profile is? I try to run one every day or so, just to keep an eye on it.
It'll need a day or two, but I'd say it looks hopeful :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers:
(Buy I still have reservations about your getting-very-hot modem)
Edit- dammit, just after I posted that a big red spike appeared :mad:
Quote from: Holodene on Sep 24, 2010, 21:10:58
Which router did they send to you?
It's another WGR614.
Quote from: Bill on Sep 24, 2010, 21:27:13
Are the times in the log GMT or BST? If they're GMT then the log and the trace tie up better.
They are an hour out, so GMT.
I note that the DHCP log entries disappear about when I suspect you put the new router in... it's a pity you can't get the reason for the disconnect from the router. Along with the line stats...
I get a huge number of those which seem to increase when more devices connect to the network. My daughter's laptop seems to be the worst culprit but I've no idea what causes them.
I suspect (and it's no more than that) that the new router is OK and that the disconnects in the log may be due to the modem retraining (via DLM) now the frequent disconnects have stopped. From about midday onwards it's quite acceptable, mine was a lot worse than that for a while!
Can you run a BT speedtest to see what your IP profile is? I try to run one every day or so, just to keep an eye on it.
I'll run one if I can after this post :)
It'll need a day or two, but I'd say it looks hopeful :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers:
(Buy I still have reservations about your getting-very-hot modem)
I've solved that. I changed the PSU, moved it away from the alcove it was sitting in and have it sat vertically. The combination of all that has it running at about the same temperature as a Sky box which I'm a lot more happy about.
Edit- dammit, just after I posted that a big red spike appeared :mad:
What you are seeing there is me turning off my PC. Strange, isn't it? If anyone can think of any reason why that's occurring I'd be very interested.
Performance Tester is unable to run the speed test for your telephone number:***********. Please check that it is the correct telephone number for your service. Did you follow all the instructions given on the website, before initiating the speed test. If not, then please follow all the instructions carefully and try to run the test again.If you believe it is the correct number for your service and you have followed all the instructions then please ask your Service Provider whether you can use Performance Tester to test your Broadband speed. If yes, then ask him for the Service ID of your broadband connection and try again with this Service ID along with your Telephone Number. If this problem persists, raise the issue with your service provider.
::)
That's what I've just got too >:(
I had some drops last night, a couple of short (~1 minute) ones not long after I posted and another of about 30 minutes in the small hours... the first one showed up in the router log, the rest didn't :dunno:
BT playing around again I guess, that's really going to help seeing if your problem has cleared. Not!!!!
Can't think why your graph shows red when you just turn the PC off... it's the router that should respond to tbb's pings not the PC. Something weird there :dunno:
edit- Ah, the wee small hours drop was a problem at tbb's end, everyone will see it.
Have you made sure on your Negear router your "idle timeout" is set to 0?
It was set to zero on my original router. I've just checked the loan unit and it's set to 5 minutes :slap:
Thanks for that, it'll be interesting to see what happens :karma:
The BT speed test is up and running again, at least it is for me.
QuoteTest1 comprises of two tests
1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download Speed
25195 Kbps
0 Kbps 38717 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed
> Download speedachieved during the test was - 25195 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 12000-38717 Kbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is -38717 Kbps
2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
8107 Kbps
0 Kbps 10000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed
>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 8107 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 10000 Kbps
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/967843785.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/128550129863968532679.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results/id/128550129863968532679.html)
One thing I have noticed with this router is that I'm getting far more consistent results on download speed tests including real money tests where I'm downloading large files from my remote server. In general I'm getting around 30 Mbps. The previous router was giving me around 8 Mbps or less most of the time on sustained downloads.
Perhaps things are starting to look up. I've been using my FTTC connection for around 4 days and only once found the need to switch to ADSL. Now the idle setting is properly set (insert face-palm here) I'm cautiously optimistic :fingers: :pray: :fingers: :pray: :fingers:
Please could you tell me your current MTU on your router?
You are connecting to the internet via PPPOE, which adds a slight overhead to the connection, meaning traditionally the MTU will have to be no larger than 1492.
BT do have a workaround to allow an MTU of 1500, however I don't believe any Netgear routers support this.
Just to clarify, set the routers MTU to 1492 or lower.
Quote from: kev445 on Sep 26, 2010, 12:59:17
Please could you tell me your current MTU on your router?
You are connecting to the internet via PPPOE, which adds a slight overhead to the connection, meaning traditionally the MTU will have to be no larger than 1492.
BT do have a workaround to allow an MTU of 1500, however I don't believe any Netgear routers support this.
Just to clarify, set the routers MTU to 1492 or lower.
Scrap that, I believe your router is quite happy with 1500.
I have just tried a ping at 1500 without issue.
Everything at this moment in time seems fine with your line.
Ping statistics for 91.135.7.215:
Packets: Sent = 1000, Received = 1000, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 36ms, Maximum = 74ms, Average = 37ms
Even with the packet size set at the largest (1500), I still don't see any packet loss on your line.
Quote from: kev445 on Sep 26, 2010, 13:04:43
Scrap that, I believe your router is quite happy with 1500.
I have just tried a ping at 1500 without issue.
The Netgear physically wont allow you to enter a MTU above 1492 when using PPPoE.
The MTU on this loan router is currently set to 1492. I think it was the same on the original but I don't recall for sure.
Quote from: .Griff. on Sep 26, 2010, 13:32:13
The Netgear physically wont allow you to enter a MTU above 1492 when using PPPoE.
Quote
The MTU on this loan router is currently set to 1492. I think it was the same on the original but I don't recall for sure.
It seems the router will negotiate 1500 on the PPPOE (WAN) interface (hence why I can ping at 1500), however it appears the LAN is limited to 1492 (I can see why, BT are about the only people to allow an MTU of 1500).
In practice however you will not notice any difference.
I think I've cracked it. Over the last few days I've been systematically swapping out all my hardware including PC, cables, messing around with settings and some other stuff.
QuoteTest1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download Speed
35464 Kbps
0 Kbps 7150 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed
Download speedachieved during the test was - 35464 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :7776 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 6500 Kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.
Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.
Leaving aside the fact that the BT speed test seems to pull stuff out of thin air, 35464 Kbps download seems to be in keeping with the results below.
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/968773801.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/128557691018350913644.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results/id/128557691018350913644.html)
I've also reduced my ping.
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping idnet.com
Pinging idnet.com [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=59
Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 7ms, Maximum = 7ms, Average = 7ms
C:\Users\zappaDPJ>
Here's a snapshot of my current tbb broadband quality monitor. Ignore what happened yesterday morning, I was pulling stuff apart.
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/cb6e8bb189d1cdfd4d546d687ff0eae6-27-09-2010.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/cb6e8bb189d1cdfd4d546d687ff0eae6-27-09-2010.html)
Although I can't say categorically what was causing all the problems, I don't think there was much wrong my side of the BT faceplate.
That's excellent news :thumb:
:fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: that it stays that way!
Interesting that you get full speed from the tbb tester- I can't get more than about 28Mbps from it, though all the others I've tried (and real life downloads) give the expected 35Mbps or more :dunno:
Cheers :) The tbb tests often under-performs for me as well Bill. It's probably taken pity on me today ;D
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 27, 2010, 13:20:38
Cheers :) The tbb tests often under-performs for me as well Bill. It's probably taken pity on me today ;D
I've had a few full-speed tests from tbb, they seemed to occur for a day or so after IDNet had been playing around with their core routers or some other network "event", then they went back to slow again. Most odd.
I know tbb were getting slow speed test results with Virgin cable a while ago, but iirc that was consistent and turned out to be a peering problem. Wouldn't have thought it was the same with IDNet but :dunno:
It's weird how the TBB test works ok for you and gives an accurate result but it simply doesn't play ball for me -
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/969071146.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
(http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/results/51925481.png) (http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk)
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/128559705396667417988.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results/id/128559705396667417988.html)
Something has to work for Zappa.
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 27, 2010, 10:02:06
Here's a snapshot of my current tbb broadband quality monitor. Ignore what happened yesterday morning, I was pulling stuff apart.
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/cb6e8bb189d1cdfd4d546d687ff0eae6-27-09-2010.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/cb6e8bb189d1cdfd4d546d687ff0eae6-27-09-2010.html)
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/da8f6b16c0c6d1fb29a5a6add7b17881-27-09-2010.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/da8f6b16c0c6d1fb29a5a6add7b17881-27-09-2010.html)
I've noticed our "packetloss" is almost the same after 12 till 1am (I did notice 4-7% packetloss in gameservers as well, normally have none). Possibly related somehow with IDNet? (Can't be exchange as I live in scotland)
That is interesting, about the same amount at the same time.
I get the same.
It's no coincidence that midnight is when most ISPs' off-peak period starts- it's all the big downloads hitting the system, it can't cope.
Same sort of thing happened during the Olympics, you should have seen some of the comments in tbb about ISPs who didn't book extra capacity in advance ;D
Even those who did (like IDNet) took a hit from congestion on the rest of the system.
I also see the same packet lose at the same time.
ADSL2+ Wiltshire, Devizes.
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/aa5dff41085c1f695066eca3809d7c6c-27-09-2010.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/aa5dff41085c1f695066eca3809d7c6c-27-09-2010.html)
Yeah I see all 3 graphs showing the same packetloss, is it worth informing IDNet as I'm getting packetloss right now as we speak while playing FPS, about 3 to 5 %.
Quote from: Steve on Sep 27, 2010, 15:46:59
Something has to work for Zappa.
It's definitely working Steve and long may it last. I've had no video caching, web page time-outs and downloads are super-fast. I also played World of Warcraft tonight without a single lag spike.
:happy: :great: :happy: :great: :happy:
Quote from: sof2er on Sep 27, 2010, 21:42:26
Yeah I see all 3 graphs showing the same packetloss, is it worth informing IDNet as I'm getting packetloss right now as we speak while playing FPS, about 3 to 5 %.
I don't really know if it's worth reporting or not. I'm sure Bill is right, it's the Internet being hit hard at off-peak. I'm not sure if it's a capacity issue within IDNet's control though.
Looking through my router log I've not had a single disconnect since I pulled things around at the weekend so it looks as if the problem is fixed :fingers:
Not only that, you've got pings that most gamers would kill for ;D
Glad it all turned out OK.
I hope I don't have to tell myself off for posting in the wrong section but we've mentioned in this thread the effects of possible changes in routing and download speeds from TBB. I was looking back at my ping plot from Tuesday this week, when late afternoon we had a powercut in the area where I live. Prior to this event pings had been around 20 and now even on adslmax they are at 10msec and have remained so.
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/ae468a1afd9e4deee53455e0f547d25f-28-09-2010.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/ae468a1afd9e4deee53455e0f547d25f-28-09-2010.html)
Not sure what's changed apart from possible routing within IDNet associated with the resync.
I've seen occasional ping reductions without even a power cut to put the blame on. Most only lasted a day or so, one lasted a few weeks before going back to normal.
Never did get to the bottom of them, here's hoping yours sticks :fingers:
Interesting :o a 10 ms drop in latency..
I wonder if it's even possible to get 10-14 ms latency here in glasgow, my previous provider had 55 ms to UK and IDNet is on 20-22 ms minimum. The only place I really saw a low latency was my university which was about 5-7 ms but then again that's JANET.