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Technical News & Discussion => IDNet Help => Topic started by: sof2er on Jun 19, 2010, 14:07:47

Title: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jun 19, 2010, 14:07:47
Hello everyone,

My exchange is fiber enabled (wshal / glasgow halfway exchange) and I was thinking of getting a fttc connection and had some questions.
I tried to sign up with BT Infinity first and they told me I need to have my phone line with them (as in line rental + phone package with BT), I'm currently signed for talk talk for another 18 months contract so that's not going to happen. I stumbled accross IDNET while googling for FTTC resellers and wondering if it's possible to order FTTC from you guys while keeping my line rental with TalkTalk (BT Landline number).

I can see a FTTC cabinet right accross the road of my house not further then 20-50 meters located away, my postcode is ****** (according to the BT Broadband availability checker and BT Infinity checker I should have access to FTTC on my landline number)

Main reason to get fiber is the lower latency times (I'm a gamer so would prefer as low as possible, my current pings range from 70 to 120 ms which is a nightmare) and the 10 Mbps upload, I don't download more than 40 gigs a month I reckon.

If all this is possible from IDNET then I'll be ordering FTTC this week from you guys!

(I'm currently on Orange LLU but I can get my mac as soon as I get a response on this :) )

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Glenn on Jun 19, 2010, 14:34:58
 :welc: :karma:

I'm not sure to be honest, Rik may know a little bit more when he pops in. Otherwise, give support a call on Monday, they will know.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jun 19, 2010, 15:12:09
Will do as I'm really concerned since I have a talktalk voice line and Orange LLU broadband (the broadband was installed when we were still with BT voice and later on we swapped BT voice to TalkTalk)
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Simon on Jun 19, 2010, 15:21:06
:welc: :karma:
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Rik on Jun 19, 2010, 16:14:25
Welcome to the forum, sof2er. :welc: :karma:

I can't give you a definitive answer and I can't check today, but my thinking is you should be able to do this as the 'last mile' is BT Openreach come what may, so it would just be a case of jumpering the TT line onto the fibre at the exchange, rather than a BT one, both then come to the cabinet (where, actually, the jumpering may take place, come to think of it) where the fibre ceases and the VDSL/phone are put onto a twisted pair for delivery to the home. BT then visit to fit the necessary socket and install the modem.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jun 19, 2010, 16:50:46
Ah Ok,

Just to clear up I will select the option "Keep my current telephone provider" so my line rental will stay with TalkTalk just my broadband will be from Idnet.

I checked today and it seems I'm not on TalkTalk LLU for voice either (as I can dial 17070 and do all the BT phone test facilities indicating it's still a BT line)
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Ray on Jun 19, 2010, 16:53:12
 :welc: :karma:
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Rik on Jun 19, 2010, 16:56:23
Quote from: sof2er on Jun 19, 2010, 16:50:46
I checked today and it seems I'm not on TalkTalk LLU for voice either (as I can dial 17070 and do all the BT phone test facilities indicating it's still a BT line)

Should be fine, then. :)
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Steve on Jun 19, 2010, 18:25:03
 :welc: :karma:
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jun 22, 2010, 00:06:34
Phoned up today and they said it was all fine, so just waiting for my MAC code from Orange (phoned them saturday and they said it would take about 48 hours and should be here around wednesday).

After I've ordered ill keep you guys updated with some speedtest and stuff!
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: psp83 on Jun 22, 2010, 01:18:49
Quote from: sof2er on Jun 22, 2010, 00:06:34
After I've ordered ill keep you guys updated with some speedtest and stuff!

Could you do some before and afters please ? speed tests and trace routes for pings.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jun 22, 2010, 01:52:13
Sure, but since my current ISP is sh*t it won't tell you much.

(Pinging about 55-60 minimum in UK and anything outside UK is 90-140 ms)
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/855143899.png)
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jun 24, 2010, 12:52:34
Got my mac code yesterday, ordered it and engineer is booked for next week thursday.

Will keep you guys updated how that works out and the speeds ofcourse :)
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Lance on Jun 24, 2010, 12:56:33
 :fingers: :fingers: :fingers:
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Rik on Jun 24, 2010, 13:01:43
Quote from: sof2er on Jun 24, 2010, 12:52:34
Got my mac code yesterday, ordered it and engineer is booked for next week thursday.

Will keep you guys updated how that works out and the speeds ofcourse :)

You do have a router ordered, don't you? Your current one will be no good with fibre.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jun 24, 2010, 14:45:10
I currently own a Linksys Cisco WAG160N Router (http://www.linksysbycisco.com/SA/en/support/WAG160N).

This should be adequate for the fiber connection I think as it supports PPoE encapsulation.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Rik on Jun 24, 2010, 14:51:36
Looking at the setup guide, it refers to connecting to the phone jack by what looks like an RJ11 connector. You'll be connecting to a BT supplied modem via an ethernet cable.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Ray on Jun 24, 2010, 15:00:47
The WAG160N appears to be a modem/router, I don't think it will work, you need an ethernet router, the modem is supplied and installed by BT as part of the fibre installation as I understand it.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jun 24, 2010, 16:15:05
Anyone that can shed some light about the router?

As I understood it I only needed PPPoE encapsulation (which my router supports)

IDNet gives the following router: Wireless Netgear WGR614

Looking at http://www.netgear.com/Products/WirelessRouter/WirelessRoutersforSimpleSharing/WGR614.aspx?detail=Specifications it has all the specifications that my router (Linksys Cisco WAG160N) also has.

http://www.dabs.com/products/linksys-by-cisco-wireless-n-adsl2-modem-router-508M.html#specifications (WAG160N)

If it isn't compatible I'll get the Wireless Netgear WGR614 but comparing both it didn't seem neccesary.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Rik on Jun 24, 2010, 16:20:21
Well yours appears to be an ADSL modem/router and you need what is commonly called a cable router, or just router. As far as I could tell from the instructions, your router has no ethernet 'in' socket, only an ADSL in. For a definitive answer, though, check with support.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Ray on Jun 24, 2010, 16:33:32
I'd agree with that, Rik, there does seem to be a lack of information about FTTC and the equipment you need at the moment though.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jun 24, 2010, 17:12:54
Mailed the support about it, if it's not compatible then I'll just get the other one from IDNet.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Steve on Jun 24, 2010, 17:32:37
If the first ethernet port of the WAG160N will support WAN access you should be o.k ,(incidentaly the WAG320N seems to allow this)
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jun 24, 2010, 17:41:18
Yeah I checked and it's RJ11 unfortunately, I need RJ45 (Ethernet/WAN port) so I'll order that router from IDNET.

On a sidenote we only have one faceplate in our house

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/images/iplate/bt-master-socket-nte5-and-old2-large.jpg

(The one on the left)

I'm not sure how it works with those faceplates but I hope that won't cause any issue?
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: pctech on Jun 24, 2010, 17:49:13
A modem will be supplied which your router connects to.

Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jul 01, 2010, 17:22:07
BT Engineer came today and I got connected, his tester gave 39.66 Mbit down and 10 Mbit up to the cabinet.

Atm I'm getting the following:
(http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/results/36989381.png)

My cabling is actually reducing my speed by a bit, I've used a different cable and had constant 39 Mbit, and this cable gave less dl/upload. Unfortunately the other cable is short and won't work so I'm buying a new cat6 cable tommorrow or something.

Pings are 20 to UK and 30 to most other places.

Anyone knows if interleaving exists on fibre lines?
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Glenn on Jul 01, 2010, 17:30:45
I don't know, you and Joe are on the cutting edge of ADSL broadband.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jul 01, 2010, 21:27:41
does anyone know if fttc has interleaving?

Would be sweet to get my ping even lower if possible :P altough I doubt scotland to london can go any less then 14-16 ms
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Glenn on Jul 01, 2010, 21:45:26
Drop support an email or call them tomorrow.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Technical Ben on Jul 01, 2010, 21:50:44
Quote from: Glenn on Jul 01, 2010, 17:30:45
I don't know, you and Joe are on the cutting edge of ADSL broadband.

Can we even call it ADSL when it's Fibre? (Wiki says it's for copper ;) )
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Lance on Jul 01, 2010, 21:53:59
Its still copper from the cabinet to the house  ;)
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: pctech on Jul 01, 2010, 22:25:09
The spec is actually VDSL (Very High Speed Digital Subscriber Line)

Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Steve on Jul 01, 2010, 23:03:56
I was looking up VDSL and VDSL2 the former came out as 'very high bit rate' and the latter 'very high speed' :dunno: It was wiki though ;D
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: pctech on Jul 02, 2010, 13:20:57
When I get a sec I will look up the official International Telecoms Union (ITU) specs.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jul 02, 2010, 13:24:49
Interleaving is not enable on my circuit, so it's all fine!
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: Aaron on Jul 07, 2010, 01:45:53
Did you get your ping any lower since? I thought 20-30ms was high for a fibre connection, considering I average 23ms to idnet.net on a rural adsl max line which is interleaved.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: pctech on Jul 07, 2010, 13:36:58
Here are the spec docs on the ITU site

http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-G.993.2/en
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: esh on Jul 08, 2010, 15:19:25
I'm pretty sure there has to be a bottom line in terms of ping that you simply can't go under. To idnet.net I get 8ms currently on ADSL. If you do a traceroute, my router (the first hop) is a fraction of a millisecond, but the next hop is already at 8ms, so pretty much 99% of my ping time in this instance is between my router and the telehouse router. I guess that is just the inherent DSL latency induced by processing at the exchange. I'd be curious to know any more specific details though, anyone?

Edit: the physical limitation on the transfer of data to the server (~50 miles) is 0.27 milliseconds, which is obviously the absolute hard limit unless you want to shift your ADSL router to relativistic speeds.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: sof2er on Jul 08, 2010, 18:44:16
Have to take in mind I live in scotland and the telehouse for IDNet is probably located near london? so my ping times won't really get better than 15-20 ms.
Title: Re: FTTC from IDNET
Post by: pctech on Jul 08, 2010, 19:31:24
Telehouse is in London.

http://telehouse.net/global-locations/united-kingdom/