I was directed here to ask about a problem in retaining channels.
I have a large house and garden and some metal floors and roofs which are not really conducive to good transmissions and find I need 3 WAPs to cover my house and garden.
I have a 2700 v6 on the line and it is stable with excellent results. This feeds a 24 port managed switch which in turn connects to a 2700 v5 and an Speedtouch - both of those are just used as WAPs.
My one immediate neighbour has two SSIDs both on Ch 1, a neighbour (not too close) has another WAP also on Ch 1 and there is a close by cafe with a public access point (unsecured) also on Ch1.
Coverage from my three overlap each other slightly and I am running them on separate channels and want to use Ch13 on the v6, Ch9 on the v5 and Ch5 on the Speedtouch.
Last night I was changing keys and looking at error stats &c and saved the configs again - and I know that the v6 was on 13. This morning it was very slow and when I launched inSSIDer I could see why - the v6 was on Ch1 and the other two on Ch9 and Ch5 as set. On access the setup pages, I could see that Ch13 was specified. So, I changed it to a new channel, saved config and it moved, then changed again to Ch13 and saved - it moved to Ch13. A little later, even though set up said Ch13 the v6 was working on Ch1.
Any idea why? Is it a known bug or is something odd happening.
I know having 5 Channel separation is ideal but I cannot achieve that and separating by 4 seems to be a reasonable solution but I don't want to drop to 4, 8 & 12 as it means one will be just three channels away from the crowded and noisy Ch1. It is also interesting that my three and one neighbours transmissions are the normal "bell" shape, but the other neighbour has near vertical rises and a wide flat top - and I cannot get my mind into RF to think about why!
One of our experts will be along shortly to help, but welcome to the forum. :welc: :karma:
:welc: :karma:
I'm not the 2700 expert either but http://bt2700hgv.tripod.com/062.htm
Wireless channel number changing syndrome
Steve,
I did see that ... although that one refers to the unit jumping to Ch13 which is almost the opposite to mine where it is jumping from! I can confirm that the details shown include the correct channel frequency.
Is there anything in the Event log to show when the channel changed ?
Hi
I have not seen that reported anywhere else.
Quote from: MisterW on Jun 10, 2010, 17:51:04
Is there anything in the Event log to show when the channel changed ?
Nothing, the only entries are similar to:
INF 2010-06-10T14:32:25+01:00 sys Wireless Key set
INF 2010-06-10T14:32:25+01:00 sys Wireless channel set to 13
INF 2010-06-10T14:32:25+01:00 sys Wireless power set to 25
INF 2010-06-10T14:32:45+01:00 sys Wireless SSID set to
These occur when I have tried setting it back to 13 or 12 where it sits for a while before hopping to Ch1. I presume that Ch0 is the Automatic setting - which I tried and that selects Ch1 but nothing in the log that states Ch1.
Odd. Have you tried using channels 1, 6 and 11?
A useless comment but its an American Router and they don't allow channel 13 do they?
It should with UK BT firmware.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 10, 2010, 19:03:07
Odd. Have you tried using channels 1, 6 and 11?
Ch 1 has four or five other WAPs close by and is almost impossible to use.
I was just thinking that those three have no overlap, so it would be interesting to see if they 'stuck'.
Quote from: Steve on Jun 10, 2010, 19:10:56
A useless comment but its an American Router and they don't allow channel 13 do they?
Ch13 is allowed - it is in the menu. v5 is only up to Ch12 and Speedtouch/Thomson/Alcatel only go to Ch11 because of French restrictions and there is not a UK variant.
It works on Ch13, but then with no intervention jumps to Ch1 and I have also witnessed a Ch12 to Ch1 jump too.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 10, 2010, 19:21:01
I was just thinking that those three have no overlap, so it would be interesting to see if they 'stuck'.
I believe that I have had that previously with v5 on Ch6, Speedtouch on Ch11 and v6 on Ch1 - but that may have been because it had jumped from Ch11 - the location of the two on Ch11 was sufficiently separate to minimise interference. At that time I was restricted to Ch11 as someone had a PC card that only supported 1-11.
I will try it later - currently have 13 selected and waiting for it to jump.
That was what I thought it would be worth trying to eliminate.
I've been thinking about this a little more, and looking at the tripod site. I don't have a v6 one all of mine are v5 so I'm not sure about this, but looking at the tripod site, the channel display seems to show the actual channel and the configured channel. This tends to imply that it expects to allow for a change. Could it be that its 'clever' and automatically looks for other networks and tries to move its operating channel as far away as possible from interference?
In your case Polchraine, with your other WAP's on channels 5 & 9 I wonder if its picking the best of a bad job and switching to ch 1. Can you try for a while without the other WAP on channel 9 and see if it makes any difference ?
Quotev5 is only up to Ch12
My v5 (5.29.107.12) will go up to 13.
:clever:
Quote from: MisterW on Jun 10, 2010, 19:34:21
I've been thinking about this a little more, and looking at the tripod site. I don't have a v6 one all of mine are v5 so I'm not sure about this, but looking at the tripod site, the channel display seems to show the actual channel and the configured channel. This tends to imply that it expects to allow for a change. Could it be that its 'clever' and automatically looks for other networks and tries to move its operating channel as far away as possible from interference?
In your case Polchraine, with your other WAP's on channels 5 & 9 I wonder if its picking the best of a bad job and switching to ch 1. Can you try for a while without the other WAP on channel 9 and see if it makes any difference ?
I'll see what happens ...
The v6 display only gives teh selected Channel - I have never seen the image shown on the Tripod site with 2 channels shown.
As for best of a bad job, Ch1 is as good/bad as Ch13 from my network perspective and in fact with all of the others on Ch1 is is the worst of a bad job.
Thanks for all of your comments so far. It is baffling me and others I have spoken to.
I need to admit to what I do ... I provide consultancy services in the field of remote communications - primarily product definition and management along with turning around failing projects. A lot of the work is in the provision of satellite based services using very portable terminals on ships and aircraft and the distribution of Internet connectivity from those. So, it is not as though I am an amateur in the field but I really am scratching my head with it.
This is not meant to be a put down to any of you as any suggestions and comments are useful and maybe one will be the answer. Just thought a little more about me would be useful especially as I am new here.
I have also had an email from BT (yes a BT customer) saying they are sending me another hub. They were equally baffled when I called this afternoon.
Here's a couple of interesting snippets from the dslreports site , referring to 2wire gateways, not sure what model but the firmware is pretty similar across them anyway
QuoteSo i went ahead and forced the AP to use channel 11. It worked and stayed on channel 11 for a few days but then magically changed again and is currently on channel 1. Why cant the RG just stay on the channel that we define? I love how underneath the channel definition is a blurb that states "Note: User selected channels may be overwritten automatically to optimize the wireless performance of the gateway"
I could see the gateway changing the channel if it is set to Auto, but if I set it explicitly to channel 11 I want the damn thing to stay on channel 11. What is the point of having a user selectable channel number if the RG can change it to any channel it desires even when its not set to auto.
QuoteThe modem constantly monitors the noise levels and switches to the cleanest channel which could change several times in a day as conditions change.
Link to the full thread if you're interested http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r23579809-2wire-RG-always-changing-wireless-channel
QuoteI have also had an email from BT (yes a BT customer) saying they are sending me another hub. They were equally baffled when I called this afternoon.
I can't imagine another hub will make any difference if its got the same f/w, after all you're not the only person to have seen the problem according to the tripod site.
It doesn't take much to baffle BT ;D
I have had 4 of my V6 hubs reset to channel 13 and we will see if anything happens to any of them
Quoteyes a BT customer
Don't worry I'm an interloper ( from PlusNet ) as well :)
I joined at first mainly because of the 2700 forum, but they're a friendly lot on here and I've joined in a few other threads since I've been here.
@kinmel, What other channels are in use nearby ?
Thanks for the link MisterW -
The comment about the channel being automatically overwritten does not appear on mine ... missing or the function removed! As for choosing interference free, then it should avoid Ch1 and I have also seen it jump from Ch12 to Ch1 - always to Ch1.
The extra hub will not go to waste - I can then replace the SpeedTouch - or enhance the network with a fourth WAP - permanently on Ch1.
Quote from: MisterW on Jun 10, 2010, 19:53:09
It doesn't take much to baffle BT ;D
Be careful - certain part's of BT maybe - others such as my old team, would take a lot more.
Quote from: kinmel on Jun 10, 2010, 19:54:21
I have had 4 of my V6 hubs reset to channel 13 and we will see if anything happens to any of them
It will be interesting as they should all see each other and if the comment above is correct, recognize interference and three of the four change. It will be interesting to see what happens over night.
Quote from: MisterW on Jun 10, 2010, 19:59:40
@kinmel, What other channels are in use nearby ?
I am not sure about 2 of them, one is in Southampton, another in Liverpool. The other 2 are in adjoining houses in my road and can see channel 4 and channel 9 elsewhere.
Quote from: Polchraine on Jun 10, 2010, 20:06:51
It will be interesting as they should all see each other and if the comment above is correct, recognize interference and three of the four change. It will be interesting to see what happens over night.
Sorry they are not all at the one place.
However 3 others are here as spares, so I can have them running, but not connected to BT and see if they change at all
Quote from: kinmel on Jun 10, 2010, 20:12:18
Sorry they are not all at the one place.
However 3 others are here as spares, so I can have them running, but not connected to BT and see if they change at all
I saw you last post too.
Would be interesting to see if any do change.
The 2 local and the 3 spares are all now on channel 13 and within 50ft of each other, only 2 are V6 and the rest are various V5
Quote from: kinmel on Jun 10, 2010, 20:46:41
The 2 local and the 3 spares are all now on channel 13 and within 50ft of each other, only 2 are V6 and the rest are various V5
V5 on Ch 13 - mine does not offer it!
So, if yours stay that way until the morning, I have a "fault" or RF conditions I cannot see. If yours change too it will be firmware.
I'm off to the gym for a couple of hours ...
Thanks all for your comments.
QuoteV5 on Ch 13 - mine does not offer it!
What firmware ?
Quote from: MisterW on Jun 10, 2010, 20:57:52
What firmware ?
I have physically checked the routers tonight and confirm that both V5.29.107.12 and V5.29.107.19 have channels 1 to 13 ( plus Auto ) - 13 is 2472MHz on both firmwares.
Quote from: MisterW on Jun 10, 2010, 20:57:52
What firmware ?
Just checked ... it is even worse, a v4 ! But at least it does not change channels. My v5 is currently in my other house 600 miles away in Scotland! I brought the wrong one back with me two weeks ago.
Some channels are not supported on US designed stuff. You're better off trying lower channels than higher. If I am not mistaken most US kit will only support 11 channels, so running the router on any channel above that is asking for incompatibility issues.
Quote from: Adam on Jun 11, 2010, 00:44:17
Some channels are not supported on US designed stuff. You're better off trying lower channels than higher. If I am not mistaken most US kit will only support 11 channels, so running the router on any channel above that is asking for incompatibility issues.
Adam,
if you read through you will understand why I need Ch13. The only US designed (with far East input) equipment I am using is the 2700 which was designed with Ch13. All of the PCs and associated wireless cards are known to work on Ch13 without problems. The router also runs fine on Ch13 and I can get very good throughput rates but the problem is the fact the router keeps changing channel from C13 and C12 to Ch1.
At 2:00 AM it was running fine and still on Ch13.
As of 08:30 AM - it has completely disappeared. No signal on any channel - the other two of mine remain on Ch9 and Ch5 and all of the neighbours are off. No entry in the log ...
I'll dig around a little more when I get back and see what happens when I reselect Ch13.
Quote from: kinmel on Jun 10, 2010, 23:04:58
I have physically checked the routers tonight and confirm that both V5.29.107.12 and V5.29.107.19 have channels 1 to 13 ( plus Auto ) - 13 is 2472MHz on both firmwares.
/MisterW
I have found out about a v5.29.117.6 that also has a channel 13 and on at least 2 occasions that router jumped off channel 13. Which firmwares do you know of that don't have channel 13 ?
I suspect it is reacting to other routers using channel 13.
/Polchraine
Can you not set it to AUTO and then it will channel hop if needs be.
Quote from: kinmel on Jun 11, 2010, 09:10:28
/Polchraine
Can you not set it to AUTO and then it will channel hop if needs be.
If I select Auto it always defaults to Ch1 and tends not to move. That results in a throughput of around 1-2Mbps ... It seems to like Ch1 and ignores all of the interference from the other WAPs even though throughput is low.
Curiouser and curiouser. It will be interesting to see how the new unit performs. Don't worry about being an interloper - everyone is welcome here, even more so if they bring interesting challenges. :)
QuoteWhich firmwares do you know of that don't have channel 13 ?
I don't know of any TBH although I've not seen a V4 one.
I've got 5.29.107.12 at home and that's got ch 13 , although no Auto option IIRC.
Just checked here in the office which is 5.29.117.6 and that's got ch 13 and an Auto option. It's currently set to Auto and is on ch 11.
Have a look at the attached images.
I left all three running on Ch5, Ch9 & Ch13 at 2 AM.
The first image shows what was there first thing this morning with the third WAP missing ...
The second shows the return of the missing one and the reason why Ch1 is not a good idea ...
Just after posting, I went back to look again ... Ch5 and Ch9 are still there along with Goldmedal, BTOpenzone and the BTHomeHub-A50A but the v6 has gone again.
[attachment deleted by admin]
If I read that plot correctly, that BTHomeHub is sure pushing out some power!!!
I presume the BTOpenzone is the public access point in the nearby cafe you refer to in your first post,
I wonder if that could be causing any issues with a v6 ? You do have the Openzone disabled on YOUR v6 I assume ?
Quote from: MisterW on Jun 11, 2010, 18:32:12
If I read that plot correctly, that BTHomeHub is sure pushing out some power!!!
I presume the BTOpenzone is the public access point in the nearby cafe you refer to in your first post,
I wonder if that could be causing any issues with a v6 ? You do have the Openzone disabled on YOUR v6 I assume ?
The HH power goes up and down significantly and that OZ is from the same source ... the other OZ may have been off at that time but is not always easy to see where I am, but near the v6 it can be seen.
My hub is set for my own WiFi only all other services are off.
Watching during teh day and have seen a couple of jumps to Ch1, along with several diasappearing acts.
I have the new one here now, just need to find time to configure it and get it running ... I will move the v4 to Ch1 and put the old v6 on Ch9 and new on Ch13.
I have not had an opportunity to install the new 2700HGV over the weekend but have seen the existing one moving from 13 to 1 and then disappearing, back on at 13, disappearing &c &c. No entries in the logs whatsoever ...
It is nice and stable on the line holds sync down to about 2dB (Margin) and occasionally lower. Considering the line length and attenuation I am getting excellent results both up and down and they are consistent throughout the day.
My gut feel now is there is a possible failure in the wireless controller ...
It does sound possible. :(
All those I put on Ch 13 last week are still on it.
Well, the new one lasted an hour! Went from Ch13 to Ch1 - the GUI page still showed Ch13 - switched to Ch12 then Ch13 and currently back there but for how long?
Also noted that on Ch1 it appears to be around 15dB higher - but I'll look into that later.
I have installed the replacement and as mentioned above it did a couple of channel hops initially but then settled down for almost a week. Late last night it jumped to Ch1 as seen with the inSSIDer spectrum analyser whilst the setup still stated 13! Saved 13 in the config again, but to no avail, so saved it as Ch6 (random) and it moved and then Ch13. First thing this morning it is back on Ch1, so moved it again but it has moved again.
So, the two v6 units will not stay on Ch13 and the v4 only goes to Ch12 ... Looks as though I may have to use 12, 8 and 4 - whilst positioning the one on Ch4 as far away from the others as possible.
BT will not accept there being a problem - so, I wonder whether to go direct to 2Wire for their comments ...
Unlikely 2wire will help as they only manufacture for carriers and so the devices are customised to their requirements and tech support is down to them.
Quote from: pctech on Jun 22, 2010, 15:31:05
Unlikely 2wire will help as they only manufacture for carriers and so the devices are customised to their requirements and tech support is down to them.
It seems as though only the user interface is customized - the core software modules will be identical and that will include the software modem, demodulation, switch capability, wireless channel management ...
Quote from: pctech on Jun 22, 2010, 15:31:05
Unlikely 2wire will help as they only manufacture for carriers and so the devices are customised to their requirements and tech support is down to them.
The response from 2wire:
At this current time, your issue will require additional analysis. You will receive a response once we have thoroughly researched your issue.
You may reply directly to this message or visit support.2wire.com to respond to this ticket.
Visit the 2Wire Support Site to view the ticket history: http://support.2wire.com/?page=viewincident&id=999999
At least they're taking an interest.
Quote from: kinmel on Jun 14, 2010, 11:50:11
All those I put on Ch 13 last week are still on it.
Kinmel,
How are yours doing? When you say Ch13 is that observed through the GUI or via another method?
My GUIs still say Ch13 but the spectrum shows differently and the wireless management utility utility I have confirms that they are on Ch1.
Quote from: Polchraine on Jun 24, 2010, 12:08:01
Kinmel,
How are yours doing? When you say Ch13 is that observed through the GUI or via another method?
My GUIs still say Ch13 but the spectrum shows differently and the wireless management utility utility I have confirms that they are on Ch1.
Gui says Channel 13, still trying to get hold of a spectrum meter
Quote from: kinmel on Jun 24, 2010, 12:15:59
Gui says Channel 13, still trying to get hold of a spectrum meter
Grab a copy of inSSIDer from MetaGeek ... http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider
It's free and gives a basic information. They do have more advanced but for this it is ideal.
Quote from: Polchraine on Jun 24, 2010, 12:59:30
Grab a copy of inSSIDer from MetaGeek ... http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider
It's free and gives a basic information. They do have more advanced but for this it is ideal.
I have checked the 2 local V6 routers that were set on channel 13 on 10th June and since then another V6 and 2 V5s have been set to channel 13 too.
These 5 routers are within 20 metres of each other and according to inSSIDer they are all still on channel 13. Various other routers are present in the area on different channels.
I cannot see any sign of channel hopping.
I am going to be in hospital for the next few days, but I will check them again next week.