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Technical News & Discussion => IDNet Help => Topic started by: adamr8965 on Apr 30, 2010, 19:53:18

Title: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on Apr 30, 2010, 19:53:18
Hey guys my internet comes to a complete crawl most nights at the moment around 5ish. I cant work it out it when the pages are loading takes ages.
Downloads are fine running around 800k/bs normal speed. Its very weird.
Changed router, changed filters, in the master socket, no p2p running, av switched off.


Ideas?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on Apr 30, 2010, 19:59:36
Run a BT speed test, Adam, let's look at your profile.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Glenn on Apr 30, 2010, 19:59:49
Exchange congestion?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on Apr 30, 2010, 20:00:39
Exchange congestion glenn wouldnt it slow down the download speed.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on Apr 30, 2010, 20:00:54
One would expect if downloads are at that speed,that surfing the internet should be quick as well. Is it a particular website that's slow? It may be worth clearing the browser cache
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on Apr 30, 2010, 20:02:01
Not necessarily, it could be making DNS lookups and the routing slower. Does it affect all sites?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on Apr 30, 2010, 20:08:08
here we go guys

FAQ


Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.

Download  Speed
5897 Kbps
   
0 Kbps 7150 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 5897 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1200-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :8128 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 6500 Kbps


Not all websites are slow just some, more the ones with photos or pics.

Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on Apr 30, 2010, 20:08:58
That speed also takes into account the fact i have had 5 power off with the router in an hour swapping stuff around.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on Apr 30, 2010, 20:11:26
That looks fine, so it suggests either exchange congestion, unlikely, or sites being busy, or your browser is a bit cluttered.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on Apr 30, 2010, 20:13:23
how do unclutter a browser? Just checked that yvonnes netbook is fine.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on Apr 30, 2010, 20:17:20
Reset and clear cache are the usual options,check you know your login details and passwords if wish to clear the cookies as well
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on Apr 30, 2010, 20:20:57
Done that no change.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on Apr 30, 2010, 20:28:30
Which browser and OS Adam?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on Apr 30, 2010, 20:36:46
Windows 7, and explorer or firefox, both the same.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Glenn on Apr 30, 2010, 20:42:01
Try flushing the DNS too

http://www.hosting.com/support/info/flushdns/
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on Apr 30, 2010, 20:44:27
And also try setting the DNS on the machines network adaptor. The instructions here will give you Opendns on that machine only.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/15037-dns-addressing-how-change-windows-7-a.html
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on Apr 30, 2010, 20:47:17
Done that aswell still to no effect
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on Apr 30, 2010, 20:54:57
Hmmm things are looking up now, seem to getting some speed back, now its just some sites are slow,
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on Apr 30, 2010, 21:02:36
Anything else been running in the background i.e virus scan although probably worth a malware check.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on Apr 30, 2010, 23:47:48
I've had this issue myself and it's been on-going for quite sometime now. It's the strangest thing, speed tests including those to BT are fine, there's no latency or packet loss in the system but websites are horribly slow to respond and in recent weeks I've also found major issues with traffic to a communications server which appears to coincide with the web issue. It's certainly not congestion local to me because it quite often occurs very late at night/early in the morning. Streaming services like BBC iPlayer tell me that I don't have sufficient bandwidth to view and yet a speed test will say I'm running at full tilt.

The comms issue is particularly perplexing because the client displays ping and my ping is 9ms at worst. However the delay or lag on a round trip to the server can be measured in minutes, not seconds when the issue is at its worst. At first I didn't connect this to a broadband issue but I've been monitoring it for the last couple of days and when the problem occurs it does appear to do so when web sites are slow to respond.

I haven't contacted support because all the usual tools that you would use to monitor the health of a broadband connection tell me it's running perfectly. It's an issue that is highly sporadic, I've been on comms for the last seven hours and it's happened only twice but when it did I checked the web and pages were taking between five and twenty seconds to load. The speed test website was also slow to load but the test was absolutely fine. I have other ways of monitoring though put and during that time there was an indication of a total loss of connectivity but absolutely nothing in my router log.

It's a perplexing problem because I don't know how to proceed with it. It's nothing to do with my PC(s) because my daughter often complains she's having problems with websites, Facebook and other applications. I've tried three routers and changed the filter. There's been no changes my end and there's nothing at all plugged into the phone point apart from the filter which is currently plugged into the test socket. In short, I'm at a loss  :dunno:

[EDIT] I should point out that although this has been going on for a couple of months I don't recall having any problems of this nature prior to that other than temporary issues reported by others at the same time.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 01, 2010, 07:40:46
This is the same as what is happening to me, but it's only some websites and usally around evening times, yet downloads are running as fast as they can go.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 01, 2010, 10:37:33
It may be the routing to specific sites is running poorly. If you both can let support have examples of the sites affected they can check it out.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: coreservers on May 01, 2010, 10:58:43
Same issue here at the moment, but BT speed tester giving me this error Speed.io and speedtester, bith giving 1.5mb down 786 up,

WEbsite latency very poor, and downloads only averaging 35k

FAQ


Performance Tester was not able to find all the network details required for telephone number:0131*******. Please check that it is the correct telephone number for your service, and ensure that the PC you are using to run the speed test is connected to your broadband connection. Try again and if the problem persists then please contact your service provider.

The phone number is correct, tried 5 times so far same error!
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 01, 2010, 11:02:41
If the number is the same one as is returned by dialling 17070, and is also used to log in to IDNet, then something is screwy with BT's database.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Glenn on May 01, 2010, 11:11:43
As ever, I can't use BT speedtest, I always get

QuoteSystem Error Image not loaded

The Performance Tester is currently unable to run a speed test for your broadband connection. Please try again shortly, however if this problem persists, raise the issue with your service provider.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Baz on May 01, 2010, 11:14:45
I can actually get it to run in FF now  :o :o
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 01, 2010, 11:17:57
What an odd error message. Does a different browser help, Glenn?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Glenn on May 01, 2010, 11:24:27
The first was FF, using IE8, I get;

'The system is currently busy. Please try again shortly, however if this problem persists, raise the issue with your service provider'

I can't remember the last time it worked for me.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 01, 2010, 11:29:42
I do wonder if there is a single BT tester, or a group of regional ones? It rarely fails for me.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Glenn on May 01, 2010, 11:32:35
Hopefully, it's more than just 1 server.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 01, 2010, 13:52:57
Quote from: Rik on May 01, 2010, 10:37:33
It may be the routing to specific sites is running poorly. If you both can let support have examples of the sites affected they can check it out.

I'm setting up a batch process to trace route and ping some of the locations I'm having problems with. That might show some actual data or of course it might show nothing at all! Over a minute's worth of lag to a comms server should result in a disconnect from the server but it doesn't which is why I not sure I'll be able to capture the event.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: pctech on May 01, 2010, 14:12:40
Quote from: Glenn on May 01, 2010, 11:32:35
Hopefully, it's more than just 1 server.

Don't bet on it, this is BT.

Spoke to an ISP once when I was trying to wring some more speed out of my line and the guy groaned at the thought of running line tests but he did so, apparently its as slow for them as it is for us.


We'd probably still have rotary dial telephones if it was up to the BT bigwigs.


Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 01, 2010, 15:41:15
Naah, they invented the Trimphone to make money. :)
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 01, 2010, 15:41:36
Quote from: zappaDPJ on May 01, 2010, 13:52:57
I'm setting up a batch process to trace route and ping some of the locations I'm having problems with. That might show some actual data or of course it might show nothing at all! Over a minute's worth of lag to a comms server should result in a disconnect from the server but it doesn't which is why I not sure I'll be able to capture the event.

I'll be interested to see what you get, Zap.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 01, 2010, 16:37:31
Just to note, my internet is flying along today, but will post if it changes.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 01, 2010, 16:38:05
It's always the way, isn't it. No rhyme nor reason. :(
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Niall on May 01, 2010, 16:55:09
Quote from: adamr8965 on May 01, 2010, 16:37:31
Just to note, my internet is flying along today, but will post if it changes.

My profile and speed was all over the place for a few days. It seems okay today, web page wise. It was pretty much as you saw, until today. Slow loading pages, profile halved last weekend and it seems to be this area as my sisters connection went that way too. I'm wondering if BT have been doing work at various exchanges which has caused issues. Obviously they won't admit to that, and IDnet doesn't have any issues so I can't see how it can be anything else.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 01, 2010, 16:58:14
BT have massive rolling engineering works, not just at exchanges, but on their networks too, Niall. It's like playing blind man's bluff.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Niall on May 01, 2010, 17:19:18
Hurrah :D

I don't play online FPS games anymore, or Xbox stuff, so it's not an issue for me anymore, but I'd have been most displeased if I was!
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 01, 2010, 17:22:38
so far so good anyway, lets see how it going 2nite!!
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: dlorde on May 01, 2010, 19:11:44
I'm seeing intermittent slowing to a crawl & loss of connection when browsing the web today, although download speed on speedtesters seems fine - the BT speedtester gives the best results ever (see below), but web browsing is still very poor... strange.

Download speedachieved during the test was - 6606 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :7616 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 6500 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 10.02:23.65:66.33 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 01, 2010, 19:26:14
So speeds are OK, but browsing not - which seems to the common theme. If people can add URLs of affected sites to this thread, we can get some investigations under way.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 01, 2010, 19:30:33
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=20192.25;topicseen#lastPost

this site rik, has slowed to a crawl along with ebay at the moment
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 01, 2010, 19:32:30
One second or less here, Adam. The forum slows down at times due to server load, we share it with a few other people.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 01, 2010, 19:36:01
rite i see rik, this site has speedied up.

thinkbroad.com, sky.com, ebay.co.uk, 406.co.uk, audisrs.com

are all slow for me at the moment, but just downloaded a test file from thinkbroadband.com at 800k/bs which is normal and speedtest.net is at 6.85 meg as normal.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 01, 2010, 19:42:56
All less than 2 seconds to fully load on a 3.5M profile, Adam.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 01, 2010, 19:47:15
about 20 sec's a page now rik with every site, i have a 6.5 meg profile.

So whats the problem and how do we sort it?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Glenn on May 01, 2010, 19:50:09
What package are you all on, ADSL or ADSL 2+?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 01, 2010, 19:51:03
im on adsl glenn, home supermax
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: dlorde on May 01, 2010, 20:08:22
I'm on ADSL (Home Lite).
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 01, 2010, 20:24:31
I've been in and out of the house all day and only on-line for a couple of hours but I've not caught any problems yet. Perhaps we are sharing a gremlin with a bus pass  ;D
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 02, 2010, 03:16:56
OK, here we go. I'd been talking to people on comms for around 45 minutes with no apparent problems and then got voice lag. I ran my batch test immediately and got the following results. It was started at 02:09 am 02:05:10.

QuoteMicrosoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping google.co.uk

Pinging google.co.uk [209.85.227.103] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 209.85.227.103: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=56
Reply from 209.85.227.103: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=56
Reply from 209.85.227.103: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=56
Reply from 209.85.227.103: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=56

Ping statistics for 209.85.227.103:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 19ms, Maximum = 24ms, Average = 20ms

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>tracert google.com

Tracing route to google.com [209.85.227.105]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>tracert google.co.uk

Tracing route to google.co.uk [209.85.227.99]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
 2    13 ms    12 ms    12 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
 3    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

 4    12 ms    11 ms    14 ms  195.66.224.125
 5    13 ms    13 ms    13 ms  64.233.175.25
 6    18 ms    20 ms    18 ms  72.14.232.134
 7    18 ms    19 ms    18 ms  216.239.49.45
 8     *       27 ms     *     209.85.243.97
 9    18 ms    19 ms    18 ms  wy-in-f99.1e100.net [209.85.227.99]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.138] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.224.138: bytes=32 time=179ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.138: bytes=32 time=188ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.138: bytes=32 time=217ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.138: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=122

Ping statistics for 212.58.224.138:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 14ms, Maximum = 217ms, Average = 149ms

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>tracert bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.138]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1     1 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
 2   161 ms   365 ms   375 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
 3   390 ms   338 ms   365 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

 4   275 ms   402 ms   360 ms  rt-lonap-a.thdo.bbc.co.uk [193.203.5.90]
 5   402 ms   398 ms   469 ms  212.58.238.153
 6   240 ms   398 ms   440 ms  virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.138]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping idnet.co.uk

Pinging idnet.co.uk [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=195ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=203ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=233ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=205ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 195ms, Maximum = 233ms, Average = 209ms

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>tracert idnet.co.uk

Tracing route to idnet.co.uk [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1     1 ms    13 ms     7 ms  192.168.0.1
 2   130 ms   143 ms   144 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
 3   152 ms   260 ms   164 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

 4   162 ms   151 ms   176 ms  redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
 5   207 ms   199 ms   192 ms  redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
 6   207 ms   212 ms   232 ms  www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping etabetapi-guild.com

Pinging etabetapi-guild.com [195.62.28.79] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 195.62.28.79: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=57
Reply from 195.62.28.79: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=57
Reply from 195.62.28.79: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=57
Reply from 195.62.28.79: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=57

Ping statistics for 195.62.28.79:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 12ms, Maximum = 13ms, Average = 12ms

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>tracert etabetapi-guild.com

Tracing route to etabetapi-guild.com [195.62.28.79]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1     2 ms     8 ms    11 ms  192.168.0.1
 2    18 ms    12 ms    21 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
 3    12 ms    20 ms    12 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

 4   256 ms   346 ms   342 ms  lonap1.enta.net [193.203.5.134]
 5   259 ms   291 ms   295 ms  te5-3.telehouse-east2.core.enta.net [87.127.236.
37]
 6   303 ms   278 ms   327 ms  te4-4.telehouse-east.core.enta.net [87.127.236.9
7]
 7   366 ms   283 ms   275 ms  78-33-51-146.static.enta.net [78.33.51.146]
 8   308 ms   315 ms   199 ms  euroconnex-1.br1.core.misp.co.uk [217.112.86.107
]
 9   154 ms   176 ms    33 ms  ge-1-377.captain.core.misp.co.uk [91.198.165.5]

10    23 ms    14 ms    14 ms  kronos.servers.rbl-mer.misp.co.uk [195.62.28.79]


Trace complete.

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping vbulletin.com

Pinging vbulletin.com [67.201.17.239] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 67.201.17.239: bytes=32 time=162ms TTL=242
Reply from 67.201.17.239: bytes=32 time=173ms TTL=242
Reply from 67.201.17.239: bytes=32 time=180ms TTL=242
Reply from 67.201.17.239: bytes=32 time=164ms TTL=242

Ping statistics for 67.201.17.239:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 162ms, Maximum = 180ms, Average = 169ms

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>tracert vbulletin.com

Tracing route to vbulletin.com [67.201.17.239]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1     1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  192.168.0.1
 2   334 ms   319 ms   327 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
 3   317 ms   350 ms   336 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

 4   345 ms   334 ms   325 ms  redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
 5   439 ms   466 ms   222 ms  75-126-245-83.packetexchange.net [83.245.126.75]

 6    97 ms   106 ms   106 ms  te1-3.cr01.iad01.us.mzima.net [69.174.120.97]
 7   122 ms   108 ms   122 ms  te1-3.cr01.atl01.us.mzima.net [69.174.120.53]
 8   143 ms   137 ms   129 ms  te0-1.cr01.dfw01.us.mzima.net [69.174.120.49]
 9   161 ms   161 ms   164 ms  te1-1.cr01.phx01.us.mzima.net [69.174.120.37]
10   160 ms   161 ms   172 ms  te1-1.cr01.lax02.us.mzima.net [69.174.120.33]
11   162 ms   181 ms   172 ms  xe1-0.cr01.lax01.mzima.net [64.235.224.181]
12   172 ms   162 ms   162 ms  xe0-0.cr01.lax06.us.mzima.net [216.193.255.98]
13   161 ms   163 ms   164 ms  67.201.17.150
14   493 ms   489 ms   430 ms  www.vbulletin.com [67.201.17.239]

Trace complete.


Here are two speed tests conducted immediately afterwards in sequence.

QuoteDownload speedachieved during the test was - 5705 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :7584 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 6500 Kbps

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/800971965.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)

Here's the same group of tests run at 02:21 am 02:05:10 (12 minutes later)

QuoteMicrosoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping google.co.uk

Pinging google.co.uk [209.85.227.99] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 209.85.227.99: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=56
Reply from 209.85.227.99: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=56
Reply from 209.85.227.99: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=56
Reply from 209.85.227.99: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=56

Ping statistics for 209.85.227.99:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 17ms, Maximum = 18ms, Average = 17ms

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>tracert google.co.uk

Tracing route to google.co.uk [209.85.227.99]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
 2    12 ms    11 ms    12 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
 3    12 ms    12 ms    11 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

 4    17 ms    12 ms    12 ms  195.66.224.125
 5    12 ms    13 ms    12 ms  64.233.175.25
 6    18 ms    19 ms    18 ms  72.14.232.134
 7    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  209.85.252.83
 8     *       28 ms     *     209.85.243.101
 9    18 ms    19 ms    19 ms  wy-in-f99.1e100.net [209.85.227.99]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.138] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.224.138: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.138: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.138: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.138: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=122

Ping statistics for 212.58.224.138:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 10ms, Maximum = 11ms, Average = 10ms

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>tracert bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.138]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
 2    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
 3    11 ms    15 ms    13 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

 4    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  rt-lonap-a.thdo.bbc.co.uk [193.203.5.90]
 5    81 ms    12 ms    12 ms  212.58.238.153
 6    11 ms    12 ms    11 ms  virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.138]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping idnet.co.uk

Pinging idnet.co.uk [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 11ms

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>tracert idnet.co.uk

Tracing route to idnet.co.uk [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
 2    14 ms    11 ms    12 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
 3    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

 4    12 ms    12 ms    13 ms  redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
 5    13 ms    13 ms    12 ms  redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
 6    11 ms    12 ms    12 ms  www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping etabetapi-guild.com

Pinging etabetapi-guild.com [195.62.28.79] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 195.62.28.79: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=57
Reply from 195.62.28.79: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=57
Reply from 195.62.28.79: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=57
Reply from 195.62.28.79: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=57

Ping statistics for 195.62.28.79:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 12ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 12ms

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>tracert etabetapi-guild.com

Tracing route to etabetapi-guild.com [195.62.28.79]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
 2    12 ms    12 ms    38 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
 3    12 ms    13 ms    13 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

 4    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  lonap1.enta.net [193.203.5.134]
 5    12 ms    13 ms    13 ms  te5-3.telehouse-east2.core.enta.net [87.127.236.
37]
 6    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  te4-4.telehouse-east.core.enta.net [87.127.236.9
7]
 7    12 ms    13 ms    12 ms  78-33-51-146.static.enta.net [78.33.51.146]
 8    12 ms    13 ms    13 ms  euroconnex-1.br1.core.misp.co.uk [217.112.86.107
]
 9    14 ms    13 ms    14 ms  ge-1-377.captain.core.misp.co.uk [91.198.165.5]

10    13 ms    13 ms    13 ms  kronos.servers.rbl-mer.misp.co.uk [195.62.28.79]


Trace complete.

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>ping vbulletin.com

Pinging vbulletin.com [67.201.17.239] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 67.201.17.239: bytes=32 time=161ms TTL=242
Reply from 67.201.17.239: bytes=32 time=162ms TTL=242
Reply from 67.201.17.239: bytes=32 time=162ms TTL=242
Reply from 67.201.17.239: bytes=32 time=161ms TTL=242

Ping statistics for 67.201.17.239:
   Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
   Minimum = 161ms, Maximum = 162ms, Average = 161ms

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>tracert vbulletin.com

Tracing route to vbulletin.com [67.201.17.239]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
 2    12 ms    12 ms    13 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
 3    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

 4    12 ms    13 ms    13 ms  redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
 5    20 ms    17 ms    18 ms  75-126-245-83.packetexchange.net [83.245.126.75]

 6    99 ms   107 ms   109 ms  te1-3.cr01.iad01.us.mzima.net [69.174.120.97]
 7   109 ms   108 ms   108 ms  te1-3.cr01.atl01.us.mzima.net [69.174.120.53]
 8   140 ms   127 ms   141 ms  te0-1.cr01.dfw01.us.mzima.net [69.174.120.49]
 9   152 ms   158 ms   160 ms  te1-1.cr01.phx01.us.mzima.net [69.174.120.37]
10   168 ms   161 ms   162 ms  te1-1.cr01.lax02.us.mzima.net [69.174.120.33]
11   169 ms   162 ms   161 ms  xe1-0.cr01.lax01.mzima.net [64.235.224.181]
12   167 ms   161 ms   162 ms  xe0-0.cr01.lax06.us.mzima.net [216.193.255.98]
13   162 ms   163 ms   161 ms  67.201.17.150
14   163 ms   162 ms   162 ms  www.vbulletin.com [67.201.17.239]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\zappaDPJ>

It's far to late for me to really look at the data now but I can see quite a few points of note after a cursory glance. I did attempt to run a few other tests in the same sequence but they failed abysmally so I've hopefully edited out a lot of spurious data :blush:
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Niall on May 02, 2010, 07:40:47
After I posted on here last night I decided to test a couple of things with random downloads. I tried a normal http download which again showed my profile has dropped, but with torrents, no matter how well seeded (from legal torrents I might add!) I don't seem to get over 220 Kb/S. Webpages seem choppy at loading (even here) on occasion. There seems to be a pause as it gets to the last 20% loading a page.

If I get a chance later I'll try with IE too when I spot the problem happening again. The webpage loading, could just be an issue with a security problem. I'm not certain, but I think it may be related to Ad-Aware as the problems with web pages seem to have started around the same time I installed that. The trouble is, I've also updated NOD32 twice and Firefox has updated along with Anti-Spyware around the same time. It could easily be related to any of them, and if so I've no real way of testing that.

Ironically, after I posted this I checked my router and the profile has reset itself to 10459 again. When I posted this reply though, it took about 3 seconds to post. Again I've no way of knowing if that's the forum delay, security software or my connection.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Niall on May 02, 2010, 07:47:56
I just reset the router, just out of curiosity and it's reset the profile slightly higher. Now pages load much faster, well instantly actually.



C:\Users\Niall>tracert www.idnetters.co.uk

Tracing route to www.idnetters.co.uk [212.69.36.28]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    17 ms    17 ms    16 ms  telehouse-gw4-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.99]
  3    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

  4    17 ms    16 ms    17 ms  redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
  5    17 ms    17 ms    18 ms  redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
  6    17 ms    17 ms    17 ms  hosting2.idnet.net [212.69.36.28]

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Niall>ping www.idnetters.co.uk

Pinging www.idnetters.co.uk [212.69.36.28] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.69.36.28: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.28: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.28: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.28: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.28:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 16ms, Maximum = 17ms, Average = 16ms

C:\Users\Niall>

That seems to have cleared what ever my problem was. I'll test some random torrents in a minute. I need a cuppa and some brekkie :D
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2010, 07:49:06
Zap why is the first hop to the router variable? The rest I see what you mean someone' s stood on the line somewhere.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2010, 07:50:59
Niall, I am finding the forum software 'slow' to post at the present moment.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Niall on May 02, 2010, 07:54:15
I've FINALLY got the BT Speed test site to work for me.

QuoteDownload speedachieved during the test was - 9932 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 1000-99999 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :10598 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1083 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 9000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 16.94:23.29:59.78 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.


I've been trying that site for months and always got an error. It works now. It's not what my router is saying, and the BT site itself says that my line should get 14mb. Hey ho, it's working at the moment though ;D
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 02, 2010, 08:03:09
Quote from: Steve on May 02, 2010, 07:49:06
Zap why is the first hop to the router variable? The rest I see what you mean someone' s stood on the line somewhere.

I have absolutely no idea at all, until you pointed it out I hadn't even noticed it. How very strange. Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me can shed some light on it  :dunno:
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 02, 2010, 08:07:43
Quote from: Niall on May 02, 2010, 07:54:15
I've FINALLY got the BT Speed test site to work for me.

Same here, it stopped working for me when they last changed it and it's only quite recently I've been able to get it to give me a result again.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Niall on May 02, 2010, 08:10:17
Normally when you see a varying ping to the router, it indicates a problem on the home side of your network. Cable or router issues, possibly the network card. The only time I've ever experienced it is when a PCI network card died on me, other than that the only thing I can think of is a busy network when you access the router, although I don't know if that effects your ping to the router (I wouldn't have thought so though).

I suppose it could also be network card drivers, thinking about it.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: pctech on May 02, 2010, 08:19:07
would echo Naill's advice Zap.

RTA (Round Trip Average) between your router and PC should be under 1 millisecond

Check your cable for damage and maybe try a factory reset of the router (be aware your profile may fall a bit when you reconnect as BT's DLM seems to work in mysterious ways)

Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2010, 08:28:28
Sometimes I get the odd blip if it's busy doing something else although when you want to demonstrate it I can't  ;D
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: pctech on May 02, 2010, 08:33:43
RTA on the second hop seems to increase quite a bit if you run a tracert while downloading or streaming (then again my connection runs at 1.6Mbps so not got a lot of bandwidth to play with)
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on May 02, 2010, 08:45:25
If I am copying a large file to another local machine sometimes I can demonstrate an increase in the RTA of the first hop but not always.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: pctech on May 02, 2010, 09:05:00
I reckon Gizmoi has invaded Zap's router.  ;D

Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Gary on May 02, 2010, 09:41:11
These are mine, over WiFi.

Ping has started...

PING www.idnet.net (212.69.36.10): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 212.69.36.10: icmp_seq=0 ttl=59 time=31.427 ms
64 bytes from 212.69.36.10: icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=31.849 ms
64 bytes from 212.69.36.10: icmp_seq=2 ttl=59 time=30.502 ms
64 bytes from 212.69.36.10: icmp_seq=3 ttl=59 time=32.406 ms
64 bytes from 212.69.36.10: icmp_seq=4 ttl=59 time=31.881 ms
64 bytes from 212.69.36.10: icmp_seq=5 ttl=59 time=31.598 ms
64 bytes from 212.69.36.10: icmp_seq=6 ttl=59 time=31.781 ms
64 bytes from 212.69.36.10: icmp_seq=7 ttl=59 time=29.899 ms
64 bytes from 212.69.36.10: icmp_seq=8 ttl=59 time=31.346 ms
64 bytes from 212.69.36.10: icmp_seq=9 ttl=59 time=31.706 ms

--- www.idnet.net ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 29.899/31.440/32.406/0.691 ms
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 02, 2010, 09:42:14
Quote from: adamr8965 on May 01, 2010, 19:47:15
about 20 sec's a page now rik with every site, i have a 6.5 meg profile.

So whats the problem and how do we sort it?

I don't know, but the most likely explanation would be exchange congestion were it not for the speedtests. Do a tracert to the affected sites when there's a problem, then do a BT speed test, and let support have the results.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 02, 2010, 10:33:22
rite how do i do that??

Internet is working fine this morning, well it was after about 9pm downloads reamined fine. However on this morning all is ok apart from idnetters which is still running slow.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 02, 2010, 10:38:16
Tracert? Hit Start > Run > type CMD in the window and hit enter. That will bring you up a DOS-like window. In that, type tracert <url> and hit enter. The trace will start. When it's complete, right click on the title bar, select Edit > Select All, then hit enter to copy the text. Paste that into an email, or notepad if you want to build a group of them before sending.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 02, 2010, 10:42:53
doing it now rik, half on them are timing out doing it on ebay.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 02, 2010, 10:47:52
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Y>tracert www.ebay.co.uk

Tracing route to hp-intl-uk.ebay.com [66.135.200.146]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     2 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2     *       37 ms    36 ms  telehouse-gw2-lo1.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
  3    37 ms     *       36 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

  4    37 ms    37 ms    36 ms  gi8-27.mpd01.lon02.atlas.cogentco.com [149.6.148
.205]
  5    37 ms     *       37 ms  te1-2.ccr01.lon02.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.50
.138]
  6    37 ms    37 ms    38 ms  te4-3.ccr01.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.1.
217]
  7    45 ms     *       44 ms  te0-3-0-0.ccr21.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.11
7.48.142]
  8    51 ms     *        *     te0-1-0-1.ccr21.fra03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.11
7.1.161]
  9     *        *       56 ms  dtag.fra03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.14.150]
10   197 ms   197 ms   197 ms  217.239.40.102
11     *        *        *     Request timed out.
12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
15     *        *        *     Request timed out.
16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
17     *        *        *     Request timed out.
18     *        *        *     Request timed out.
19     *        *        *     Request timed out.
20     *        *        *     Request timed out.
21     *        *        *     Request timed out.
22     *        *        *     Request timed out.
23     *        *        *     Request timed out.
24     *        *        *     Request timed out.
25     *        *        *     Request timed out.
26     *        *        *     Request timed out.
27     *        *        *     Request timed out.
28     *        *        *     Request timed out.
29     *        *        *     Request timed out.
30     *        *        *     Request timed out.

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Y>


this what happened just now.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 02, 2010, 10:48:54
Load instantly, but the tracert times out for me too. It probably just indicates that routers after hop 10 don't respond to ICMP traffic (pings)

tracert www.ebay.co.uk

Tracing route to hp-intl-uk.ebay.com [66.135.200.146]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

 1     1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.254
 2    13 ms    14 ms    15 ms  telehouse-gw2-lo1.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
 3    14 ms    13 ms    11 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
 4    14 ms    13 ms    15 ms  gi8-27.mpd01.lon02.atlas.cogentco.com [149.6.148.205]
 5    14 ms    15 ms    13 ms  te1-2.ccr02.lon02.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.50.117]
 6    13 ms    14 ms    15 ms  te4-2.ccr01.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.1.201]
 7    21 ms    21 ms    21 ms  te0-2-0-0.ccr21.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.28.157]
 8    28 ms    27 ms    27 ms  te0-0-0-1.ccr21.fra03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.0.146]
 9    28 ms    27 ms    29 ms  dtag.fra03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.14.106]
10   178 ms   177 ms   177 ms  217.239.40.102
11     *        *        *     Request timed out.
12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: pctech on May 02, 2010, 10:56:43
likely to be the result of firewalls at ebay's end I reckon.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 02, 2010, 10:59:09
Indeed, but the page is served quickly for me, but not, apparently, for Adam.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 02, 2010, 10:59:45
i have just found my problem, its my ps3. Had it on last nite everything was slow when the little one was watching a film, internet ran fine when switched it off.
Same this morning ok before on, slow when switched on. Just switched it off now, internet pages running full speed again.

What the hell is going on?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 02, 2010, 11:00:48
Just put the ps3 back on and everything has slowed down again.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 02, 2010, 11:01:35
It's using your bandwidth for some purpose, Adam. Was the film being played locally, or streamed?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 02, 2010, 11:03:20
was a blu-ray disc. and the internet to the ps3 is ethernet which is unplugged
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: pctech on May 02, 2010, 11:07:34
Do you make use of Wi-FI at all?

Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 02, 2010, 11:09:50
So it's not connected to the net, but when you turn it on it slows your connection? In that case, I can only think that either the PS3 or its power supply is generating a lot of noise. If you have a battery powered AM radio, de-tune it so that you only have white noise, then run it over the PSU, the cable to the PS3 and the PS3 itself. If the noise increased on the radio, that's the source of your interference. (Though normally I'd expect that to cause re-syncs rather than slow throughput.)

Is there anything else connected to the network, does your router show any other active connections?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 02, 2010, 16:41:03
I've been out all day so I've just read the replies. As those trace routes appear to be showing an issue my side of the faceplate I'm try to fathom what I can do to isolate where the problems lies.

The set up I have is two PCs hard wired into the router and wireless access which my daughter uses. I currently have access to 3 Netgear routers, one of which was set up by IDNet to resolve an issue with simultaneous uploading and downloading. I know the problem occurs regardless of which router gets used so that would appear to eliminate that. I also know that the symptoms are apparent on more than one device because when it happens to me, it also happens to my daughter if she's on her laptop. In addition it will happen if I'm the only one on the network. I can't really say if it happens when my daughter is alone on the network. The second PC is rarely used.

I have 3 separate networks on my PC (all have been tried), 2 on the motherboard and an additional card which I put in to try and eliminate a problem when my switch to WBC failed. 99.9% of the time I use my Max connection. There are no devices plugged into the Max connection other than the filter. I've changed the filter a couple of times and swapped over the LAN leads between the two PCs (not replaced).

I'd say this problem first occurred a couple of months ago and it's very intermittent, at worst once every hour. Sometimes I'll not notice it all day. When it happens voice comms to a dedicated Ventrilo server stops for around a minute, sometimes a little longer. When the lag finishes I can hear what I said around a minute ago coming back at me through another person's open headset. During this period some websites become unreachable while others are fine. If I'm watching something like iPlayer it tells me I have insufficient bandwidth and will quite often restart the content I'm watching from the start. The speed tests I've conducted from websites that are reachable during the lag period give results that are in line with my best results. They also show low latency.

Any ideas because I'm stumped  :(
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: pctech on May 02, 2010, 17:45:13
Not using a hub anywhere are you Zap?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 02, 2010, 17:51:38
No, just the Netgear.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: adamr8965 on May 02, 2010, 18:00:10
No rik wifi is secure noone but me knows the code, router sits below the ps3, and the plugs for it are right next to phone socket.

Noise margin stays the same around 8.9 to 10.5
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: pctech on May 02, 2010, 18:08:27
Quote from: zappaDPJ on May 02, 2010, 17:51:38
No, just the Netgear.

Not sure myself to be honest.

I'm tempted to advise you to reset one of your routers to factory condition and put it in to see if it has any effect on the problem as it sounds like either a bottleneck is occurring somewhere or something odd is happening with the router firmware.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: pctech on May 02, 2010, 18:15:53
Just tried to reproduce the problem by running a tracert to idnetters.co.uk while streaming a channel on TV Catchup but couldn't

See the tracert below

Tracing route to www.idnetters.co.uk [212.69.36.28]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2   143 ms   135 ms   159 ms  loop-l2tp.fb1.newnet.co.uk [212.87.69.130]
  3   132 ms   253 ms   327 ms  lns0.th.newnet.co.uk [212.87.69.193]
  4   162 ms    37 ms   123 ms  7609-1.lan2.newnet.co.uk [212.87.79.65]
  5    96 ms   110 ms   131 ms  telehouse-gw.idnet.net [195.66.224.181]
  6   103 ms    29 ms    26 ms  redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
  7    97 ms   154 ms   113 ms  redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
  8    94 ms   115 ms   110 ms  hosting2.idnet.net [212.69.36.28]

Trace complete.

I am using a Netgear DG834G v4 with the latest firmware v5.01.16
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Technical Ben on May 02, 2010, 22:21:39
Just been to the parents. Their internet slows down too sporadically, but I know what Whom the problem is. ;)
Glad to see you are narrowing down the trouble, and it's rather easy to sort out. Well, compared to digging up the road that is.

Oh. Big idea here (well, googled a result). I just read that the PS3/Xbox360 Wireless controller can interfere with the router. It constantly "pings" to check if the controller is available, or a button is being pressed. This can interfere with a wifi signal and the router. [edit] Netgear DG834PN (your exact model! :D) seems to be effected. However the controllers are bluetooth, so it's strange that it is interfering. The router is spending all it's time being distracted by interference, and putting your website requests on hold. [/edit]
Try totally disabling the Wifi on the router via it's options, and see if the PS3 still interferes. If the PS3 still interferes it might be the electrics and plug sockets, if it's fixed, you at least know it's the PS3 controllers causing the problem.

[double edit]
Ok, I've replied to like 3 of you there, and not realised how many different problems people are having. So I do not know if it applies to everyone sorry.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Gary on May 02, 2010, 22:58:19
I have a PS3 running on its 2.4ghz and its not affecting the laptop, my Mac is running on 5Ghz and thats fine as well, no slowdowns at all at the moment. Using a DGND3300.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 02, 2010, 23:59:39
I have a significant update. I phoned a friend who is a qualified network engineer and we've spent most of the evening testing my connection... well to be honest he's spent most of the evening testing my connection while I struggle to keep up. He's identified the problem but is completely mystified as to the cause. The problem is my network is being intermittently throttled or degraded by as much as 90% but only when I connect to the Internet with a browser or application. He's going to ask around at work to see if anyone has any ideas and bring a different make of modem/router to try.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Technical Ben on May 03, 2010, 00:39:29
I have a spare! (although redundant in this thread as you seem to have a supply already)
Will test it this week, and if it works, could see if I can lend it out.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 03, 2010, 01:06:31
That's a very kind offer, thanks :) Let me see what happens on Wednesday evening when he's due to come back with a couple of different routers.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 03, 2010, 01:09:09
Quote from: Technical Ben on May 02, 2010, 22:21:39
[double edit]
Ok, I've replied to like 3 of you there, and not realised how many different problems people are having. So I do not know if it applies to everyone sorry.  :dunno:

Yeah, I thought we were having the same issue as the symptoms were identical but I'm now pretty sure that is not the case.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Niall on May 03, 2010, 08:32:43
I've just tested my setup again, and it seems everything is perfect again. What ever the problem was seems to have been totally corrected. As I mentioned, I was only downloading on (legal!) torrent sites at a crawl, even when the torrent had over 6000 seeds I was only getting just over 200Kb/S. I've just tried again and it's back to the maximum my line supports, and I can browse the net just fine, where before some pages would take a while to completely load (4-5 seconds instead of instantly).

Long may it continue. I just wish we were allowed to know what BT were doing that caused this in the first place! {edit} Just to be clear, I'm blaming BT not IDnet :D
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 03, 2010, 10:49:14
Quote from: zappaDPJ on May 02, 2010, 23:59:39
I have a significant update. I phoned a friend who is a qualified network engineer and we've spent most of the evening testing my connection... well to be honest he's spent most of the evening testing my connection while I struggle to keep up. He's identified the problem but is completely mystified as to the cause. The problem is my network is being intermittently throttled or degraded by as much as 90% but only when I connect to the Internet with a browser or application. He's going to ask around at work to see if anyone has any ideas and bring a different make of modem/router to try.

Have you tried booting into safe mode with networking support, Zap?
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Gary on May 03, 2010, 10:58:23
What encryption do you use Zap? is it WEP or WPA2. and how strong is it? I use WPA2 with 63 random printable ASCII characters. for full encryption, changing your code may be a good idea, shieldsup generates good random passwords. https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 03, 2010, 15:08:50
Quote from: Rik on May 03, 2010, 10:49:14
Have you tried booting into safe mode with networking support, Zap?

My friend did several times yesterday when he ran a battery of tests.

Quote from: Gary on May 03, 2010, 10:58:23
What encryption do you use Zap? is it WEP or WPA2. and how strong is it? I use WPA2 with 63 random printable ASCII characters. for full encryption, changing your code may be a good idea, shieldsup generates good random passwords. https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm

I'm using WPA-PSK with a 63 character randomly generated key Gary.

I'm pretty sure my friend thinks I have 3 faulty Netgear routers, he's asked me to carry out some further tests today. Although the problem isn't intermittent in that it can be replicated on demand, there are some inconsistencies that are really confusing things.

Actually before I forget I must give Steve a Karma for noticing the problem with the first hop. I missed that completely and it was that which pointed the way to identify the issue. Now we just need to identify the cause  :karmic:
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on May 03, 2010, 15:20:11
Thanks, Hope you get it sorted.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 03, 2010, 15:21:12
This is one of those annoying issues which is going to prove to be something very simple, Zap.  :(
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 04, 2010, 18:28:11
I think I'm half way to identifying the cause but I'm even more baffled now. All the PCs here run Vista with the exception of my main PC which runs both Vista and Windows 7. Any PC running a combination of Vista and most multimedia based applications will cause my network to throttle. It seems that if there's nothing on my network but Windows 7 I can run anything on that system without any network degradation. I'm going to put an old hard drive containing a Windows XP PRO installation into one of the PCs and see what that does.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on May 04, 2010, 18:39:06
Any use ? May not be relevant and its 3 years old

http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2007/08/27/1833290.aspx

and this

http://www.vistarevisited.com/2008/05/24/how-to-improve-network-performance-in-windows-vista/
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 04, 2010, 19:37:30
Thanks Steve, I've been searching the net while waiting on the results of XP PRO which also doesn't appear to have any significant impact on network throughput when running multimedia applications. I found this in reference to the Multimedia Class Scheduler Service...

QuoteThis service has been implicated in poor networking performance while multimedia is playing. In response to this, Microsoft has included a configurable option in Windows Vista Service Pack 1 and later where users can specify the network throttling index value for the Multimedia Class Scheduling Service so that network performance and audio/video playback quality can be balanced according to how users configure it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Class_Scheduler_Service

I think we've identified the culprit. I can't believe I've wasted two days of my life on this. I wonder how many other people thought they had broadband issues when in fact were having their network's soft underparts squeezed by Microsoft's ineptitude  :shake:

Thanks again for your help on this Steve, you've certainly been instrumental in identifying the cause. Have another  :karmic:


Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 04, 2010, 19:38:42
Glad you're getting there, Zap, it could be useful for us all.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on May 04, 2010, 19:46:57
Thanks,I think its time to rid yourself of Vista. I purchased the Windows 7 upgrade family pack for the households Vista machines,did a clean install and money well spent in my opinion.


Edit: I suppose the proof would come from configuring the multimedia class scheduler service and then see if the issue goes away.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 04, 2010, 21:45:34
That's certain one of my tasks for tomorrow Steve  :)
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 05, 2010, 16:23:26
I've been playing around a bit and I can confirm the Multimedia Class Scheduling Service in Vista is having a huge and it seems accumulative effect on my network. It's always the one common denominator. I'll see what my friend has to say tonight as he's going to take another look at it.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Rik on May 05, 2010, 16:24:39
Good luck, Zap, I can see you moving to Unix yet. ;)
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 06, 2010, 15:58:23
I'm probably more familiar with Unix than Windows so don't tempt me  :laugh:

Last night I effectively disabled the Multimedia Class Scheduler Service  by giving the NetworkThrottlingIndex a value of (&)FFFFFFFF on all the PCs running Vista. The results of doing this were pretty obvious. The friend who help me sort this out is surprised that the problem was having such an impact on the traffic coming though my broadband connection. He also didn't seem too impressed with the way any of my Netgear routers were set up and changed some settings in one which he's suggested I replicate in the others. Most of the settings he changed were in the QoS, a bit of a grey area for me.

I've spent all day on the net testing out the changes and it's actually quite a revelation. No more 30 second+ lag spikes on comms services, websites are quick to fully resolve and I was able to watch two films at the same time on Sky Player/iPlayer without getting bandwidth warnings.

Sorted  :thumb:
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Glenn on May 06, 2010, 16:01:54
Good news indeed
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Steve on May 06, 2010, 16:06:35
Why did MS do that, no wonder Vista became unpopular and how many ISP support depts have suffered earache as a result.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: Niall on May 06, 2010, 20:11:58
Quote from: zappaDPJ on May 06, 2010, 15:58:23
I'm probably more familiar with Unix than Windows so don't tempt me  :laugh:

Last night I effectively disabled the Multimedia Class Scheduler Service  by giving the NetworkThrottlingIndex a value of (&)FFFFFFFF on all the PCs running Vista. The results of doing this were pretty obvious. The friend who help me sort this out is surprised that the problem was having such an impact on the traffic coming though my broadband connection. He also didn't seem too impressed with the way any of my Netgear routers were set up and changed some settings in one which he's suggested I replicate in the others. Most of the settings he changed were in the QoS, a bit of a grey area for me.

I've spent all day on the net testing out the changes and it's actually quite a revelation. No more 30 second+ lag spikes on comms services, websites are quick to fully resolve and I was able to watch two films at the same time on Sky Player/iPlayer without getting bandwidth warnings.

Sorted  :thumb:

I'd be interested to know what was changed, as I have a netgear router. Also, I've never had problems that you're describing and I'm using 64bit Vista.
Title: Re: Internet is at crawl.
Post by: zappaDPJ on May 07, 2010, 04:01:49
My PCs are all running 32 bit but I doubt that's a factor. The main thing to change would be as detailed in this page that Steve linked: http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2007/08/27/1833290.aspx