Hi folks
I've been a very happy IDNetter for about 16 months on Home PAYG, but my connection has bombed in the last couple of weeks and I feel like I'm chasing my tail trying to get things working again.
I came back from holiday to discover my IP profile had collapsed down to 135kbps, and an email exchange with IDNet support established that, according to BT, there had been some line instability. Anyway, BT reset my profile and things were back to normal for a couple of days (IP profile up to 5000kbps, d/s line attenuation 42dB, syncing at 4-6000kbps) but I started losing sync again and the profile is back down to 135kbps.
I'd love to know what's gone wrong: the connection has been pretty reliable for so long. I already have a replacement faceplate on the MJU (about 3.5 years old, from clarity.it), the bell wire on the lone extension was disconnected a long time ago, there are additional filters on the two phones and I'm using a shielded modem cable (Belkin I think). Since these problems have arisen, I've completely disconnected the phone extension, I've run everything directly from the test socket, I've moved the router away from anything else electrical, I've walked along the line with a detuned AM radio (there are no sources of electrical interference that haven't existed for the last 15 months) -- and I'm none the wiser. I tried the quiet line test with just the phone plugged into the test socket and it's very clear, albeit with a little crackle every once in a while. Wouldn't even notice it during a conversation.
It's possible that the router (DG834G v2) or all of the filters have failed. However, I don't have spares sitting around so it's going to cost money to confirm this, and even more to get BT off their backsides to do anything. By the way, we're in Virgin Media territory here so I don't know anyone with a DSL modem I can borrow -- all my friends are using cable modems (I ditched mine a few years ago, when it was NTL; it was godawful at the time but it's looking more attractive again by the day...)
Anyway, before I start throwing good money after bad, I'd be very grateful for some guidance as to what I can do to isolate the problem and -- hopefully get back a broadband service worthy of the name.
Thanks,
Mike
Hi Mike, :welc: :karma:
I'm not the best person to offer advice (they will come along later), but it does seem as though you've done everything to eliminate a problem within your home wiring (aside from exchanging the router), which would indicate a problem between the BT exchange and your house, although, you didn't mention if you have tried different microfilters in the test socket, and that might be worthwhile, as they can suddenly develop faults.
IDNet could probably loan you a router, and I think that's possibly the next step you should take, as you need to eliminate all likelihood of the issue being your side of the test socket, to avert the risk of a £160+ call out charge from BT, if they have to investigate. Of course, the 'little crackle' on the quiet line test may well be a bigger one, when you're not listening, and may be causing the profile drops, but intermittent faults are hellish to prove to BT.
Hold on for someone more qualified than me to verify this, though.
Oh, are you on Max or ADSL2+?
Hi Simon
Thanks for the reply and the Karma :)
Apart from the one in the faceplate I have a couple of other filters, which I tried in the test socket (and even daisy-chained them all together) but no difference. One of the filters came with the router and I've no idea where the other one came from. Probably not top-drawer items, but the router is losing sync even when there's nothing happening on the voice circuit.
I'm currently on Max but I have an open order for ADSL2+, due for completion at the end of the week. Great timing!
Ouch, that's certainly not good timing. ADSL2+ has not been without it's teething problems. On some lines it, performs worse than Max, and once you switch, there's no going back.
I don't want to worry you unduly, though, so hold fire until one of our more techie people come along. If not tonight, it will be in the morning. :)
Simon is quote correct in what he has posted. Support do have a router they can loan out which would be one way to eliminate or confirm yours. Alternatively, has a friend or family member got a router and some filters you could borrow?
@Simon
Yes, so I gather :(
@Lance
I'll probably get hold of some new filters anyway, but borrowing a modem's a bit tricky -- mostly cable modems around here. I've left a couple of messages, though. Might have some luck tomorrow.
:welc: :karma:
As others have mentioned, I think it's worth trying another router, as it's certainly a possible cause. Given your setup, it can only really be the router or an external line issue. Try the router, and if it's no good, your only option is going to be to have an engineer out.
For the price of return postage - I can lend you one?
Steve
:welc: :karma:
Welcome to the Nettery, Em. :karma:
I'd echo what everyone else has said, you need to eliminate your router from the equation. If you can post the router's stats (downstream sync speed, noise margin and attenuation) we can have a better stab at what may have been happening, but to get the 135 profile, you have to have had at least one sync event at <288k.
Whereabouts are you, and is your line overhead or underground?
@Steve
Thanks, that's very kind -- I might well take you up on your offer. Just waiting to find out if one's already on its way.
@Ray
Thanks!
@Rik
I'm in Brighton (Kemptown exchange), and the line comes in to the house from overhead. Router is currently showing:
Connection speed: 3968kbps
Line attenuation: 42dB
Noise margin: 10dB
looks pretty reasonable, and the line's been up for almost 13 hours!!!
Just did a BT speedtest and am very surprised to learn:
Your DSL connection rate: 3968 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 3000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2777 kbps
This means the IP profile appears to have been bumped back up overnight, rather than taking several days. Perhaps someone is taking an interest ;)
Now, I'm quite happy with this sort of performance (although I have no objection if it improves). Let's see if it bombs again today...
Mike
Hi Mike
On a 42db line I'd expect you to get another 1-1.5Mb, so that suggests your line is quite noisy. It looks like BT have raised your noise margin to 9 or 12db. If it's 9, then your line is currently less noisy than when you last re-synced, if it's 12, then you have noise around still. The profile is correct for the sync speed, so my guess is that you've had a quick 'bounce' due to the large improvement in sync speed.
We now need to try and work out what happened. Ideally, try with a spare router, IDNet will usually lend one in this sort of situation. In the meantime, do you have, or can you borrow, a battery-powered AM radio? If so, de-tune it from any station so that all you have is white noise. Then, follow the path of your phone line from where it enters the house through to the router. Listen for any increase in the noise level - if you hear one, or more, then your router is also hearing that noise.
I've managed to locate a spare modem/router, which should be with me tomorrow. It's a noticeably cooler day today, so it'll be interesting to see whether things behave in the meantime.
I tried the radio thing the other day. What I did notice was the noise being kicked out by the radio teleswitch next to the electricity meter, which is about 2ft above where the MJU is located and where the router itself was. However, it's been like that for a good couple of years. Nothing new, and barely discernible using the radio right next to the router itself. In any case, I moved the router well away yesterday on a longer, shielded modem cable, just to see if it made any difference to stability... perhaps it did, although the MJU is still there, under the teleswitch so any lines in or out would still be susceptible to its noise.
I just retraced the route with the radio and if I put it right next to the phone line itself, I pick up what I assume to be broadband activity; a few inches away and there's no radiated noise apparent anywhere along the line.
Well, that's one more possibility ruled out then. ;) The teleswitch may, of course, have become more noisy recently, or have started to radiate in a more sensitive part of the spectrum, but it sounds like it's not the issue.
An update: my connection has been solid all day (of course) ::)
OK, the line stats aren't anything to write home about, but at least it's maintained sync. That's progress.
I have some new filters on the way, along with a spare router, so if the connection falls over again I'll be back on the diagnostics. I do wonder whether my router is suffering from good old dry-joint noise susceptibility on the PCB. Todays cooler ambient temperatures and the fact I've moved it to a less enclosed location might have temporarily cured things. Hard to say, unless I give it the hairdryer test (might do that, with a spare router coming).
One useful side-effect of noise-hunting is that I noticed the upstairs phone extension (currently disconnected) runs right past the noisy radio teleswitch. I'll re-route that before I reconnect it, using some Cat5e cable I have knocking around.
Sounds like you're on the right tracks, Mike. :fingers:
Bah.
Lost sync at around 10:15 this morning, after almost 38 hours connected. I whizzed round with the MW radio to check for any new noise sources and heard nothing. The router resynced at 512 kbps; noise margin was up and down like a yo-yo, between 0 and and 24dB and settled, after a few mins, at 24dB :(
Work was a bit slow for the rest of the morning.
Anyway, the spare router showed up and I switched to that one at around 1pm. It synced at 4128 kbps, with line attenuation at the usual 42dB and a noise margin of 14dB (now 12dB). Unfortunately a BT speed test confirmed that the IP profile has once again bombed down to 350 kbps.
Now waiting to discover whether the replacement router fares any better with line noise.
This is such fun ::)
:fingers: for you Mike. The only good thing to say is that your profile should recover quite quickly with that big jump, ie hours rather than days.
Thanks Rik.
Unfortunately it just got worse: disconnected for over 20 mins now, and won't resync. Patience evaporating...
Contact support now, ask them to look at what's happening from their end, it may give a clue.
Just spoke to Brian: it seems BT may actually be in the process of switching me to the new cct, having cancelled the work 3 times because of a phantom open order for a new line.
Kill or cure, then ;)
:fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: ;)
Indeed... :fingers:
Still no connection :(
Get on the phone, Mike, if you haven't already - they're only there another five minutes.
Too late, unfortunately. Forgot they finish earlier on a Friday. I was going to call at 6 if I hadn't heard back from Brian. I did and got the office hours greeting. Any point leaving a message for them?
So, in the unlikely event that BT are still working on my line, or have completed it, should my modem just pick up the new connection? I've been restarting it periodically, but nothing yet.
Yes, leave a message, Mike, no service rates as an emergency and will get a response - though if BT have messed up, it may take till Monday. :(
Do you have sync atm? If not, then yes, it should pick up automatically. If it's in sync but PPP won't authenticate, then you probably want to power the router down for 20 minutes or so and try again, so that any stale session problems are resolved.
Thanks, Rik. Yes, it appears to be syncing so I'll power down for 20 mins or so. If there's still nothing then I'll phone and leave a message.
Whoever's on call will be able to look at the radius server and see what's happening to login attempts, Mike, so leave the router on until you get a response.
"Sorry, but the user's mailbox can't accept more messages". >:(
Still no PPP auth -- tried both routers for good measure. I'll keep trying the phone on the off-chance that someone clears the mailbox. Any point in sending an email?
OK, I'll get that error fixed asap. Try again in a while. Email might get a quicker result.
Thanks. Will do both.
Email sent and voicemail left.
Hope it gets sorted for you soon Mike. :fingers:
So BT broke my connection and won't say what's wrong. IDNet have had heated discussions with BT and escalated the issue as high as possible. And I've a pile of work I can't do...
That's the problem with BT at weekends, Mike. IDNet will be using all their contacts to escalate within the out of hours setup, but their hands are somewhat tied because of BT's working week. :(
I appreciate IDNet's efforts in seeking a resolution. The upgrade should have completed a month ago but BT repeatedly cancelled it, citing an open order on the line. Mystified by this, I phoned BT customer services last week, who confirmed there was no such order, only for BT to once more attempt to get IDNet to cancel and re-order for the same reason yesterday. IDNet dug their heels in, and the rest you already know.
BT's ordering system seems chaotic, to be polite about it. ;(
Don't the business packages have a faster turn around time on faults, or is that only with the enhanced care? I'm assuming it's a business package your own as you mentioned about work to do. :)
You have to be paying the extra for enhanced care, Lance.
Ah, I did wonder but couldn't be bothered to look from my phone. I would imagine that it depends how critical the work is ad to whether or not you pay for it.
:fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: Heres hoping Mike
Quote from: Lance on Sep 05, 2009, 10:58:43
Ah, I did wonder but couldn't be bothered to look from my phone. I would imagine that it depends how critical the work is ad to whether or not you pay for it.
Indeed. How's the course going?
Quote from: Rik on Sep 05, 2009, 11:02:16
Indeed. How's the course going?
Shouldn't there be a "now, get back to work" on the end of that sentence? :evil:
;D
I was leaving that for Miss WhiiplashJill. :evil:
Just on a break but starting again now!
What is this one?
I don't have a business connection as I don't need super-strength industrial reliability. I can tolerate the occasional drop in speed or loss of sync.
No connection at all, however, is not acceptable whatever the package.
Heh: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/sep/05/broadband-speed-legal-advice
Sadly, it will be the ISPs taking the flak, and BT washing their hands of everything. Because their contract with BT is a business one, not a consumer one, they have far less protection. :shake:
Quote from: Rik on Sep 05, 2009, 11:18:43
Sadly, it will be the ISPs taking the flak, and BT washing their hands of everything. Because their contract with BT is a business one, not a consumer one, they have far less protection. :shake:
It's not simply that Rik. It's the 'good' ISPs like iDNet, Zen etc who do try to provide a decent service, that get tarred with the same brush as the 'pile it high' merchants. The latter don't really care, as in a lot of cases broadband is simply a loss leader to enable them to sell other stuff.
The general public, the majority of whom regard anything above the lowest price obtainable as a 'rip off', present company excepted of course :) expect to get a Rolls Royce for the price of a Ford and, start whining when predictably it doesn't happen.
When ISPs like iDNet fall foul of BTs machinations and the service falls below par, the public then take the view that since 'they're all the same' they may as well go with the cheapest. The result is a race to the bottom with the good guys getting squeezed out. The end result will be a few major suppliers for whom the idea of offering a decent service is an alien concept and, whose sole purpose is to extract as much money from the customer as is legally possible.
It's all very sad :shake:
I can't argue with a word of that, Tac. :(
Lets hope you are proved wrong and that things will improve :fingers:
QuoteMaplin is another source of phone cable, iiec, it's called CW1038
All the right numbers there Rik :), but not quite in the right order ;D
Think you'll find its CW1308.
Hey, I was close. ;D Too much Morecambe and Wise in my youth. :thumb:
Andre Previn :thumb: ;D
Exactly - classic sketch.
Great minds ;)
:rofl2: :nana:
My mind is great. It's the connections it makes with the world that let it down. ;D
I'm with that guy ;D
:nocomment: ;D
:hehe: :think:
Time for an update...
Well I've been back online for almost a week now, thanks to stirling work by Miriam and Brian who eventually managed to beat BT into unbreaking my connection :)
So I'm all set up on the new ADSL2+ Home Plus Package. Initially I was getting download speeds of around 5.5Mbps but, thanks to my running a phone extension right next to a noisy mains spur I hadn't noticed before ::) this dropped to around 500kbps for a few days. I immediately discovered the problem and after shifting the phone extension, obtained a pretty consistent downstream NM of 14dB (Line Attenuation still 42dB) and the download speed has bumped up to around 2.5Mbps.
I've been keeping an eye on the NM and it's been very stable since the weekend. That is, until a couple of hours ago, when it bombed to almost zero! I went round turning off just about eveything in the house and disconnected the phones, all to no avail. Out came the MW radio, and the noise on the line where it enters the house was terrific! From an untuned hiss, I could place the radio next to the line and hear a station coming through -- I detuned to several different frequencies and got the same thing.
I have quite a long modem cable (5m - ADSL Nation) so I powered down the router, moved it closer to the socket and used the short, simple lead which came with the router. The line resynced to the same speed as before (around 3M down / 1M up), throughput is the same (around 2.5M down) and NM is now back up to a stable 14dB. The trouble is, I don't know whether it was the action of resyncing the modem which improved things, or whether the long modem cable was the problem -- it's been fine till now. I can still pick up the radio station where the phone line comes into the house, too.
Can anyone shed any light on what might have happened there?
By the way, I can't use the BT speedtester at the moment as it won't accept my phone number as valid. Is this usual? And -- dumb question I suspect -- how can I tell what my target Noise Margin is?
Not sure about the loss of sync but surely your target noise margin could be a noisy 15db or a quiet 12db. From my own experience I tried very hard to get my adsl router next to the filtered master socket, the rest of the network runs via homeplugs and a gigabit switch
I had my router right next to the master socket for several years -- only moved it recently while trying to isolate it from noise, as it's right below the electricity consumer unit, with mains cables firing off in all directions around it. The master socket is in a really stupid place :(
Quote from: emvisi on Sep 16, 2009, 22:32:34
I immediately discovered the problem and after shifting the phone extension, obtained a pretty consistent downstream NM of 14dB (Line Attenuation still 42dB) and the download speed has bumped up to around 2.5Mbps.
Check the NM immediately after a re-sync, that will tell you what the target is - there's no formal way of doing it, I'm afraid. I'd guess at 15db from what you say and your speed relative to attenuation.
QuoteI have quite a long modem cable (5m - ADSL Nation) so I powered down the router, moved it closer to the socket and used the short, simple lead which came with the router. The line resynced to the same speed as before (around 3M down / 1M up), throughput is the same (around 2.5M down) and NM is now back up to a stable 14dB. The trouble is, I don't know whether it was the action of resyncing the modem which improved things, or whether the long modem cable was the problem -- it's been fine till now. I can still pick up the radio station where the phone line comes into the house, too.
A shorter lead is always better, having the router next to the master is always going to give you the best result. The radio station is odd, is it always the same station, regardless of the radio's tuning?
Quote from: Rik on Sep 17, 2009, 08:44:47
Check the NM immediately after a re-sync, that will tell you what the target is - there's no formal way of doing it, I'm afraid. I'd guess at 15db from what you say and your speed relative to attenuation.
Ah, thanks. I'll check this next time. In fact I may stick the Netgear back on today so I can run router stats -- I'm less convinced it's faulty now since the line suddenly got really noisy last night using the other router.
Quote
A shorter lead is always better, having the router next to the master is always going to give you the best result. The radio station is odd, is it always the same station, regardless of the radio's tuning?
That would be my preference -- may need to look at moving the socket.
I didn't really pay attention to whether the radio station was the same, but I doubt that it was. I think the long phone lines were just providing the radio with a supplementary aerial. The phone line runs overhead to the house, so it probably picks up anything and everything!
However, RF comms wasn't my strongest subject, so I'll have another listen this evening to make sure.
It might be worth having a word with support. If that's always present, BT might be willing to fit an RF filter.
Checked it again last night. The phone line was just providing the radio with an enhanced aerial. The MW frequencies do get very busy in the evenings down here. Doesn't help that we're located right on the English Channel.
Anyway, I finally managed to do a BT speed check last night and discovered my profile was an underwhelming 2500 kbps. However, the line went doolally again this morning: noise margin dropped down to between 0 and 3 dB, modem resynced at just over 1000 kbps. The BT speedtester again refused to work for me. I waited till things settled down, rebooted the router and synced at just over 3000 kbps again, but throughput is now below 1000. Noise margin was initially 19dB; now reading 16dB a couple of hours later.
I realise that I might still be on the training cycle at the moment, since my line was switched to ADSL2+ just over a week ago, but I'm fast losing confidence that I'm ever going to obtain a stable ADSL connection. I've been round and round making sure that everything in the house is as good as it can be, to the point that I've replaced the master socket faceplate with a new one from ADSL Nation, removed the master socket from the wall so it's lying on the floor away from any passing mains, the modem/router is a couple of feet away, on the stairs - away from all noise sources but as close as possible to the router, and there's only one corded phone plugged into the faceplate, with another filter in line for good measure. It can't stay like this, but if I can't get a reliable connection when I've gone to these lengths....
I do sense that you need an RF filter on your line. Your throughput will have been hit by the 1k resync, which will have dropped your profile, and it also looks like you've now got a target noise margin of 15db. Have a word with support about the RF problem.
Will do. Thanks again, Rik.
Brian on the case, starting with BT line check...
:thumb:
Still waiting to hear back from IDNet/BT...
Anyway, just used the (corded) phone on the BT line and noticed the ADSL noise margin dropped to 1dB at the same time. Recovered to 12/13dB when the phone was put down. I tested again (phoned the BT line from the Virgin Media one) and it seems to be repeatable. My wife, on the BT line, said she could hear some occasional crackle.
Modem and phone are both connected straight into the brand new ADSL Nation faceplate; modem on 1m cable, phone via 3m extension and a second filter for good measure.
Could there be some cross-talk problem upstream?
It's possible, but my gut feeling is that your line is carrying RF, which BT can fit a filter to remove. The problem with the phone is more puzzling. Normally, I'd suggest changing the filter, but you've effectively done that. Changing the phone would make sense as the next step, followed by a quite line test - dial 17070 and select option 2. If you hear crackling, then report it was a voice fault without mentioning ADSL.
Hi Rik
I've tried a variety of phones (including none at all this weekend!) and filters over the past couple of weeks and not achieved a stable connection. The line's not obviously noisy when I do a quiet line test: a bit of hiss with one phone, not evident on another, newer one (probably thanks to a better audio circuit). I mentioned your RF theory to Brian on Friday, and he logged a fault with BT. Haven't heard anything back yet.
This afternoon my sync dropped to an even less impressive 1150 Kbps and the noise margin has increased to between 28 and 30dB. Throughput is about 730 Kbps so I assume my profile is now 750 Kbps. Attenuation on the downstream line is fairly constant, at 41dB, but upstream attenuation has jumped up to 50dB, although it's still at 6dB NM and syncing at 976 Kbps, with a measured throughput of around 830 Kbps. Hey -- that's almost SDSL ;)
Of course, I'm also now subject to the vagaries of WBC...
That line sounds faulty. :(
BT round tomorrow, apparently :fingers:
:fingers: :fingers:
Get the bacon butties ready. ;)
Afternoon appointment, so I'm thinking Tunnock's Teacakes might be in order ;)
That should work as well. :)
Very nice chap from BT just came over and ran some tests. Apparently the line between my house and the DSLAM is clear as a bell, and there's no noise being injected at this end. Given the very high noise margins and low sync speed he's sure there's a problem at the exchange and is going off there to check things over and probably to 'lift and shift' me onto a different port.
:fingers:
A port change could work wonders for you. :fingers:
Cockburn's Special Reserve would be nice ;)
:rofl: For once it wasn't me that got food and drink into a tech thread. ;D
:thumb:
:hehe:
There's a first for everything! ;D
Still waiting for something to happen...
Quite possibly he exceeded his two hour slot, and has had to re-book the job. Support should be able to find out for you.
Apparently BT interpreted the tech's report as 'no fault found' ::)
Support are on the case again...
That's not the first time we've heard an engineer tell the customer he's off to do work at the exchange, then put in a cleared or no fault report. :(
Well something appears to happened...
Modem dropped the connection just before 3pm and eventually resynced at 4669 down (from 1150) / 445 up (from 800 odd). Downstream sync speed has obviously improved a bit, but upstream has halved.
Noise margins are now:
Down: 15dB (from 30)
Up: 21dB (from 6)
So it appears the upstream connection has been crippled in order to improve the downstream speed. Not what I'd call a fix. Remains to be seen what sort of download throughput I might achieve, as my profile is still rubbish. Quick speed test reports 730 down / 360 up. What a crock :(
There is often a trade-off between upstream and downstream frequencies, but the change in the noise margins suggest that there's been a significant change to the physical characteristics of your line. Have you asked support what's been done?
I asked for an update, but will call again if I don't hear something soon.
This isn't very encouraging:
Download speed achieved during the test was - 703 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 200-1000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :4668 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 445 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 750 Kbps
I'm now on a 1M connection?!
You need to wait for the profile to update, it should only take a day or so. IDNet will be waiting for the engineer's report to be fed back to them.
I'm sure you're right, Rik. However, I'm also sure that the BT Speedtester has always previously stated the upper limit of my connection to be 7160 Kbps (or thereabouts), even when the IP profile dropped through the floor.
The BT tester didn't use to give the upper or lower limits. Given it's been broken for several days, it wouldn't surprise me if they've changed it yet again. :sigh:
I've actually managed a test now.
Download speedachieved during the test was - 3649 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :4816 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 760 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 4000 Kbps
I should have said 'whenever I've seen it'. And it showed the same as yours: 600 to 7150.
Which, for me, is plain crazy as there's no way I would ever see 7150 on my line... :)
I'm hoping that BT haven't simply reclassified my line so they can claim it's operating within spec. After the past few weeks' nonsense, I wouldn't put it past them right now.
At least having established that my line to the exchange is in good nick I have a number of LLU options if BT can't get their equipment to work. It would be a shame to leave IDNet, who I believe are doing what they can for me, but ultimately they can't deliver if BT don't do their bit.
It's a problem hitting all the smaller ISPs at the moment. :(
Yes, as was mentioned some way upthread, I believe. I'm surprised the consumer champions haven't got their teeth into this issue.
Numbers, I guess. It tends to be only the bigger ISPs who get on the radar, and since the contracts between BT and ISPs are commercial, there's little to be hyped in a consumer show.
Was thinking more Consumers Association (Which?) and Guardian than Watchdog. Clearly it's not in the interest of consumer choice for independent ISPs to be driven out of business because BT aren't doing their bit to ensure a level playing field in terms of infrastructure.
None of them seem to understand the broadband market, though, and look at the ISPs rather than the underlying BT service. Granted that an ISP can make things worse because of over-subscription, poor CS etc, they are looking in the wrong place when they should be looking at the wholesale service that is behind the majority of connections.
[Fanfare]
Line went off for ~30 mins this afternoon. Completely off. No phone, no DSL, nada.
Came back to life an hour ago and the modem immediately synced at 7247 down / 1051 up
Noise margin: 6dB down / 6dB up
Line attenuation: 42dB down / 12.5 dB up
That's more like it :)
Speed test shows:
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/574603579.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
but IP profile is currently 1250 kbps, so hopefully this will creep up if the line remains stable. Ping looks good, though!
Hopefully, it will come up within 12-24 hours. :fingers:
:fingers: indeed...
The trouble with an intermittent fault is that you can't tell immediately if it's *really* gone away, but I'm an optimist ;)
From the sound of it, they've done something like a lift'n'shift, so there's a good chance the fault has been fixed.
:fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers: :fingers:
Indeed. :)
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/574669305.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
:thumb:
Well within 12 hours. ;D :thumb:
Exactly 5 hours since being reconnected. Feared the worst for a minute or two, as the modem suddenly lost sync...
The old sweaty palm moment. ;)
It'll probably take me a while to get past that ;)
I know the feeling well. :)
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/575265042.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
:(
Can you get a BT test done?
I did a BT test less than 3 hours ago, which showed my profile had been dropped to 5000; the modem re-synced shortly afterwards down to 1600 so I ran the speedtest; looks like the profile might have dropped further. I waited a bit and rebooted the router and it synced at 5205, which is where it is now.
Downstream noise margin seems to have been increased to 12dB and is currently fluctuating between 9 and 11 at the moment. I'm running routerstats to see if I can build up a better idea.
After the promising start yesterday, the noise margin dropped from 6dB to hover around 0 for most of the evening, although I didn't lose sync. Woke up this morning to find the router had resynced overnight to just over 6000, then around half 9 this morning it resynced again to around 1600, as described above.
Evidently there is still a noise problem somewhere. Your RF theory is still valid.
:(
I really don't know what else to suggest. Unless you can eliminate the noise, you're not going to get the speed back. One possibility would be to turn the router off overnight, I suppose. Have a word with support on Monday, they'll have a clearer idea of what has gone on.
Yup. Looking forward to another week on the phone...
Router resynced itself this afternoon at >7Mb/s, 6dB noise margin ???
BT Speedtest just now:
Download speedachieved during the test was - 1157 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 400-2000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :7291 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1036 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 1250 Kbps
:dunno:
Low sync event triggering a profile drop, that's all it can be. The problem will be to identify the cause of what was almost certainly a noise burst. The thing that worries me is BT turning round and condemning your line for ADSL.
Well, we're still trying to get this working...
It seemed that my IP profile was dropping due to errors on the upstream path so Brian asked BT to apply interleaving yesterday. My router retained sync overnight and the IP profile even crept up to 2500 kbps this morning. Target noise margin still seems a little high, but my throughput is close to the profile.
Anyway, there was an incoming phone call on the BT line this morning and I noticed upstream errors appeared while it was ringing. Afterwards I unplugged the phone (leaving just the router plugged into the filtered faceplate -- no extensions of any sort), called the BT line from my mobile and the router started showing upstream errors again. I powered the router down, swapped the (Clarity) faceplate for my new ADSL Nation one, reconnected the router and rang the line again. Guess what: upstream errors.
What does this indicate? Faulty filters? Something else upstream?
That's an odd one, I can only think that the ringing current is generating noise, but with no phone plugged in, I don't see how. I'd have a word with Brian, he may be able to come up with something.
I emailed Brian straight away.
I wonder whether the master socket is faulty - the ring cap, perhaps?
It's possible...
Meantime, if you've got a 'soap on a rope' filter handy, try that in the test socket and see if it changes things. Also, try a new phone to router lead, just in case that's picking up noise.
Brian just suggested doing the same :)
Same result, by the way.
I can't think why? :whistle: (We had a chat, he asked me to suggest it in case I got back to you before he did. :))
I suspect that's three of us scratching our heads, now.
Just what you need at 5pm on Friday ;)
Indeed. The two circuits really shouldn't be interacting, so potentially it's an obscure fault like an HR joint... :(
Where I work HR don't smoke or cook joints :evil:
The problem could be caused by the insulation breaking down somewhere on the line.
B'doom tish!
It's quite repeatable, by the way. If I ring in, the errors appear. However, if I pick up the phone and make an outgoing call: no problem.
Is this any help? http://www.marcspages.co.uk/tech/6104.htm
Thanks, Glenn -- it's an interesting read but doesn't help me at the moment, since I have removed all extensions while attempting to troubleshoot the issue. Right now I have a filter in the test socket, into which are plugged the router and one phone.
Almost identical issue here, except with me it's my upstream errors which appear:
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/technical/3654828-adsl-drops-out-when-receiving-a-call-not-filters.html
My lift & shift doesn't appear to have cleared the fault, either.
Time for an email?
Another email?! ;)
On reflection I did notice line problems coinciding with phone calls before last week's lift & shift; I'd just never associated it with incoming calls only. A quick search with Google turned up lots of similar issues -- although my line doesn't actually drop, the number of upstream errors climbs very rapidly while the phone is ringing (fortunately the voicemail kicks in after a few rings!). This would explain why the profile keeps dropping.
On edit: suggestions of line problems such as bad grounding / high resistance connection / water ingress keep coming up for this particular set of symptoms.
The kind of faults that BT have problems finding, unfortunately. :(