Looks as if AAISP have had enough of BT (http://aaisp.blogspot.com/2009/08/info-alternatives-to-bt.html) and the issues surrounding 21CN. At least they look to be offering links to an alternative alternative network in an effort to do something about the shambles that BT is currently becoming.
I wonder if any other ISP will jump ship and start to use either Be or possibly C&W who also have an extensive network. Not sure how this would affect WBC.
Very interesting, they may not be the last to make such a move.
Quote from: Rik on Aug 13, 2009, 16:02:04
Very interesting, they may not be the last to make such a move.
Given AAISP's penchant for telling it like it is, there may be some more interesting information to come out of all this. If enough ISPs do it and publicise the fact
very loudly, this could hit BTs efforts to get their hands in the taxpayer's pocket.
Also since BT is rapidly becoming a pensions liability with the encumbrance of a communications network, I suspect the only reason they are issuing a share dividend is to reduce the risk of a takeover bid.
It could also reveal Ofcom in a very harsh light. :fingers:
I believe Vivaciti (http://www.vivaciti.net/), the Entanet reseller, also now resell BE LLU after suffering a backlash from Entanet's traffic management debarcle. Dangerous territory to be moving into though, what's to stop customers just cutting out the middle man and switching to BE?
I suppose the same thing which stops people going to BT?
Quote from: dujas on Aug 13, 2009, 17:22:05
....Dangerous territory to be moving into though, what's to stop customers just cutting out the middle man and switching to BE?
I imagine AAISP believe their 'we will fix your line' sales pitch will still bring in the customers. Even if the go to Be for the network traffic, they're still going to have issues with the last mile.
With the same Openreach engineers working on them. :(
Quote from: Rik on Aug 13, 2009, 18:32:01
With the same Openreach engineers working on them. :(
Exactly. It must be a nightmare being in the ISP business at present.
:fingers:
Quote from: Tacitus on Aug 13, 2009, 18:30:00
I imagine AAISP believe their 'we will fix your line' sales pitch will still bring in the customers. Even if the go to Be for the network traffic, they're still going to have issues with the last mile.
I do agree, you can't get out of the 'basic' system offered ;)
Look what David done now! Viva la revolution! ;D
You mean David's on the turn? :eyebrow:
;D
Cutting edge ....me ;D ;D
I think you may need one of these David :hehe:
(http://www.acemart.com/renderImage.image?imageName=graphics/00000001/products/RSH12SXL-CP.jpg)
:lol:
They don't like it up 'em. ;D
:getout: :nana:...alright then ;D
QuoteYou mean David's on the turn
not me shipmate ;D :no:
If everyone uses Be, we'll end up with congestion all over again. I think they should stay away :eek4:
:hehe: :pmsl: You only have yourself to blame Ann now move over I need some of that speed ;D ;D
Yes, you can't expect to brag about it on here, Ann, and then keep it all to yourself! ;D :legpull:
But... but... but.. the cutomer service comes from.. wait for it.. Bulgaria! Yous all wouldn't like that.
Come on Ann we all know they are in Milton Keynes ;) ;D
:)x
I can see why AAISP would want to do this, ISPs tied into BT's infrastructure are on a hiding to nothing, particularly when it comes to WBC. However I've had first hand experience of Be's network and while it may suit those who require huge amounts of bandwidth it's not so good if you are looking for low latency. During peak hours pings of over 200ms was the norm for me and a lot of others on the network.
I'm not really sure if AAISP are going to keep their reputation if they go down this road.
I think a few ISPs are struggling to keep their reputation at the moment, Zap, mostly at the hands of BT. :(
I do understand that, I think a number of us here have come to realise just how abysmal BT/Openreach has become unfortunately :'(
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Aug 13, 2009, 23:02:49
I can see why AAISP would want to do this, ISPs tied into BT's infrastructure are on a hiding to nothing, particularly when it comes to WBC. However I've had first hand experience of Be's network and while it may suit those who require huge amounts of bandwidth it's not so good if you are looking for low latency. During peak hours pings of over 200ms was the norm for me and a lot of others on the network.
I'm not really sure if AAISP are going to keep their reputation if they go down this road.
The problem is O2 are the parent company and they have overloaded Be' network with new traffic, not great really.
Quote from: Ann on Aug 13, 2009, 22:51:28
But... but... but.. the cutomer service comes from.. wait for it.. Bulgaria! Yous all wouldn't like that.
I'm surprised more companies don't use South Africa, where the standard of English is pretty good. I know TalkTalk use a call centre in Durban. An Afrikaans accent is generally more comprehensible than Bangalore.
If ghastly. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Aug 14, 2009, 08:27:49
If ghastly. ;D
True - they always sound as if they have a cold. :)
If ISPs who are fed up with BT start to move
en masse to LLU operators, BT could be left with the unprofitable rural/semi rural areas. How would they then generate the profits to upgrade the network? Yet more taxpayer subsidy?
There could come a point where, given the pension liabilities, taxpayer subsidy might be all that keeps BT afloat, in which case politicians should bite the bullet and nationalise it. Since current political ideology seems to favour the transfer of wealth from the many to the few, I can't see it happening.
Quote from: Tacitus on Aug 14, 2009, 10:39:07
True - they always sound as if they have a cold. :)
I thought that was Birmingham. ;)
QuoteIf ISPs who are fed up with BT start to move en masse to LLU operators, BT could be left with the unprofitable rural/semi rural areas. How would they then generate the profits to upgrade the network? Yet more taxpayer subsidy?
There could come a point where, given the pension liabilities, taxpayer subsidy might be all that keeps BT afloat, in which case politicians should bite the bullet and nationalise it. Since current political ideology seems to favour the transfer of wealth from the many to the few, I can't see it happening.
Given the current structure, where Openreach operate and maintain the network and BT Retail are themselves a customer, a division of the company would make sense. Therefore, it can never happen. :(
Quote from: Tacitus on Aug 14, 2009, 08:27:07
I'm surprised more companies don't use South Africa, where the standard of English is pretty good. I know TalkTalk use a call centre in Durban. An Afrikaans accent is generally more comprehensible than Bangalore.
...or The Philippines like Linksys/Cisco. 24/7 support - telephone (toll free) answered within seconds by a Filipino who speaks great English albeit with an almost American accent. That was my experience when I had a warranty issue, anyway :thumb:
Isn't 1&1's support in the Philippines too?
Quote from: Rik on Aug 14, 2009, 10:58:11
Isn't 1&1's support in the Philippines too?
Their support via email appears to be in Germany, Rik. :)
I was thinking of the phone support, Ray. When I did have occasion to call them, I ended up with American-accented English which clearly wasn't European. I was told then that they were based in the Philippines.
I have just recieved an Email from them signed by
Jareth Lou Becari
Now he could live here but I cant figure out where this name is from Italy perhaps ? :dunno:
I think that's a Spanish name, David, which would fit with the Philippines.
And the manners and the friendly service ........certainly not Britain ;D
Except, perhaps, Hitchin. :)
Now thats the training centre for excellence :thumb:
:)
This is very interesting stuff. Unfortunately, as some have mentioned, it's not a global solution given that LLU operators like Be will just become over-subscribed.
It might only take one or two to move from BT to wake people up though, Seb. :fingers:
True.
Im packing again ;)
Pistols? :whistle:
In my mac pocket ;D
Any idea where you are going to go, David?
No Im just shopping around as long as its a short contract ....I am not sure that AAisp can resolve the issue so undeer the T&Cs I will go somewhere else where slow speeds are reflected in the cost not sure that anyone can get past this though all I do know is Im still on dial up speeds for almost top money which is daft economics.
Zen has always been on my shortlist :dunno:
Newnet might be a better bet, David.
Will check them out ....not sure they operate here but worth a look on sam
Checked and they do cover this address and make the usual claims and slightly cheaper but can they deliver even the 4 mbps they say :fingers:
http://www.newnet.co.uk/broadband/
Interesting you're thinking of moving from AAISP - presumably because they haven't solved your line problems.
I'm currently dealing with Demon's script jockeys in Bangalore and not really getting very far with an intermittent line problem and Newnet is on my shortlist. One thing to watch out for is that they charge for total bandwidth, up and down.
Whilst doing some research I had a look at those ISPs that were founded in the mid to late 90s. It's interesting to see where they are now. Zen looks to be by far the biggest, iDNet is probably the smallest with Newnet somewhere in the middle. Interestingly Newnet is the only plc compared to iDNet and Zen which are both private limited companies. They did strike me as a company with a solid background, well managed by experienced business people and, AFAICT, likely to be around for some time.
Nice summation, Tac. :thumb:
Thanks Tac I am such a light user I have actually just had credit to my account as I download very little ineed so I would have thought any restrictions would not really affect a use such as myself.
No gaming some modest youtube but other than this I usually just surf the net Email and thats about it really.
I hope they sort yours out :fingers:
Quote from: Rik on Aug 15, 2009, 18:03:52
Nice summation, Tac. :thumb:
Thanks Rik ;D
It does pose some thoughts as to which of them will survive. Were I an investor I would be wary of Zen. Although Richard Tang seems to have weathered the 'teenage' years and obviously must delegate a lot of the work, they still seem overly dependent on him, both as a figurehead and a driving force. I would be looking for some strength in depth on the management team since if he fell off his perch the company might flounder. Some 350 employees - their figure - need a lot of business to keep them occupied and that level of growth brings its own problems. Throw in the palatial headquarters and, they're going to need a very hard nosed attitude to keep them going, particularly in the current climate.
Some recent events suggest this is what's happening. Moving people to WBC without the option to go back and, without any incentive, suggests business is taking precedence over the cuddly image. Add some of the moans on TB about quality of service - not in itself unusual - and it may be their image is getting a bit tarnished due to the need to have a harder attitude.
Newnet looks to be run by experienced business people from the get go. It might not be as big as Zen, but has a diverse portfolio of broadband, colo, leased lines etc. Not as good in value terms as Zen, but the management appears clued up and I get the impression they have solid relevant experience before coming to Newnet. The fact they are a plc should push them to be better managed. They've also got investors in people awards, ISO 9600 accreditation (over rated in my view) but I would say that
purely as a business it's probably the most solid of the three.
Speaking as an outsider, iDNet look a friendly company with good customer support, but they also are in the difficult 'teenage years' - the time when the business takes on a life of its own and the founder/s 'lets go' and start to guide rather than micro manage. I may be wrong but I have the impression everything depends on Simon, which is not a good thing for obvious reasons. To me this suggests the business may be having a difficult adolescence and, for this reason I would say that
purely in business management terms, iDNet might possibly be the weakest of the three.
Zen might appear to be in the same situation but given the relative size of the companies, whereas Richard Tang
must be forced to delegate, Simon isn't, since their total strength going by the website, is hardly in double figures. OTOH I could be doing him an injustice.....
So as businesses - nothing to do with quality of service etc, I would put them in the order Newnet, Zen and iDNet. But of course this could all be the product of a fevered imagination and half a bottle of red ;D
That saves me a lot of reading Tac ;D
If of course you are correct ;D
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 15, 2009, 19:29:45
That saves me a lot of reading Tac ;D
If of course you are correct ;D
Like I said I was looking at them purely in business management terms nothing to do with quality of service.
Also half a bottle of red does encourage the imagination :)
Quote from: Tacitus on Aug 14, 2009, 08:27:07
I'm surprised more companies don't use South Africa, where the standard of English is pretty good. I know TalkTalk use a call centre in Durban. An Afrikaans accent is generally more comprehensible than Bangalore.
Plusnet uses a part Sheffield, part Durban set-up.
At the moment, it's not fully integrated so I can ring a number guaranteed to get me Yorkshire.
They haven't a clue (on the whole) in SA.
:welc: :karma: :thumb:
Quote from: axisofevil on Aug 15, 2009, 19:49:49
They haven't a clue (on the whole) in SA.
:welc:
My experience of the SA call centre was the exact opposite :) I'm guessing it's like Bangalore - purely luck of the draw as to whether you get someone who knows what they are doing.
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 15, 2009, 16:58:52
No Im just shopping around as long as its a short contract ....I am not sure that AAisp can resolve the issue so undeer the T&Cs I will go somewhere else where slow speeds are reflected in the cost not sure that anyone can get past this though all I do know is Im still on dial up speeds for almost top money which is daft economics.
Zen has always been on my shortlist :dunno:
Bearing in mind the work supposedly being done by BT over the weekend, would it not be prudent to hold out for another few days, David, to see what transpires?
Why not go with one of the cheap mass market ISPs and let them take ownership of the phone line too? May have more pull with Openreach.
I have given them until next Friday..it wont make that much difference ;D
Do you have Be as an option on your exchange, David?
Yes checked it yesterday and they can provide the service which is something....thats what I thought the last time though
It might be worth a try, David, though do wait to see if BT's work this weekend produces a resolution.
:thnks: Yes Rik I will ....wont hold my breath though ;)
I saw this today, at least we're told what's happening. ;D http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/f/3686341-adsl2-faults.html
WBC is clearly not ready for the market, and all ISPs are struggling with it. It's wrong that BT can get away with this. :mad:
Quote from: Sebby on Aug 15, 2009, 16:43:45
This is very interesting stuff. Unfortunately, as some have mentioned, it's not a global solution given that LLU operators like Be will just become over-subscribed.
Thats a good point and has been I think been one that Be is aware than O2 can add as many as they like, but saying that my service with O2 was very good untill access package at our new property, even cable services can suffer contention issues at nodes so there is no silver bullet I think.
Which is unfortunate if there's a vampire in your room. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Aug 16, 2009, 13:02:40
Which is unfortunate if there's a vampire in your room. ;D
Shhhhhh I know its sleeping as its daytime, but like BT you never know if the information is correct about how things
really work with either one ;)
:lol: :karmic:
All depend whats at stake ;D
My meal tonight for a start. ;D
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 16, 2009, 13:17:34
All depend whats at stake ;D
:grn: and oddly same here, Rik ;D
;D
I'm thinking we should rename the forum IDFoodies. ;D
:ithank: Gary.....
Id Hi would be more apt Rik ;D
Or the Donald Russell appreciation society...
Who's she then ? ;D
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 16, 2009, 13:26:59
Who's she then ? ;D
Have you ever been to Thailand, David? If you do be careful :whistle:
My favourite butcher, who have promised me a tour next time we're up that way, and a meal afterwards. ;D
Quote from: Gary on Aug 16, 2009, 13:28:58
Have you ever been to Thailand, David? If you do be careful :whistle:
:thumb:
Quote from: Rik on Aug 16, 2009, 13:29:39
My favourite butcher, who have promised me a tour next time we're up that way, and a meal afterwards. ;D
You eat meat Rik ? :eek4:
:bawl: :bawl: I cant keep up here its not fair >:(
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 16, 2009, 13:31:38
:bawl: :bawl: I cant keep up here its not fair >:(
Viagra?
Thats a bit still Gary
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 16, 2009, 13:35:08
Thats a bit still Gary
As in its not moving at all :eek4:
:hehe: I meant stiff you fool ;D
The forum is going mad, I swear it's something in the water! ;D
Or the food ;D
Gary started it not me :rofl:
Snitch. ;D
:whome: ok I am :whistle:
;D
A snitch in time saves fine. :evil:
whats the difference between a snitch and a snatch ? :evil: :evil:
How many kids have you got, David? :whistle:
:rofl: :whistle: two.........I think ;D ;)
;D
:pray: :hide: :hiding:
AAISP would really have to alter thier price structuring to become a Be/O2 reseller though, as most people would just go back to Be/O2 for a better deal, I mean if O2 on LLU on a line that can't do more than 8MB can give you the service if you have a mobile or even a pay and go one for £7.50 a month what can AAISP offer :dunno:
Im with T.Mobile in contract Gary and cant find any mobile stuff from them :dunno: contract has three months to run (18 months) then I maybe in a better position...Virgin dont cover this area with cable....Sky no thanks :dunno:
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 16, 2009, 17:17:17
Im with T.Mobile in contract Gary and cant find any mobile stuff from them :dunno: contract has three months to run (18 months) then I maybe in a better position...Virgin dont cover this area with cable....Sky no thanks :dunno:
go with Be 3 mth contract David or get an o2 pay and go sim card (free online) and just stick it in an old phone then you could go O2, but they do a year contract though, myself I had no issues with their LLU product and for £7.50 it was perfect, the prices go up the faster your line can go but still very cheap with a sim.
Wow I didnt know I could do this.. :thumb: :thnks: Gary will check this out could solve a lot of things
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 16, 2009, 17:31:23
Wow I didnt know I could do this.. :thumb: :thnks: Gary will check this out could solve a lot of things
The O2 deal is good David if you do not mind a contract, they also do a cooling off period I believe still http://freesim.o2.co.uk/
Thanks Gary....will give this a try out pay as you go to see if I get on with it then when T mobile has run out change over :thumb:
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 16, 2009, 17:47:26
Thanks Gary....will give this a try out pay as you go to see if I get on with it then when T mobile has run out change over :thumb:
Or just top a pay and go once every now and then David, and still get cheap Broad band its not the useage its the fact you own one and topped up so it was working ;) If you can get away with topping up a tenner once a year maybe than why not, check how long the top up lasts
I will Gary I had not bothered taking notice of this before now....will go and get one :thumb:
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 16, 2009, 17:54:35
I will Gary I had not bothered taking notice of this before now....will go and get one :thumb:
:thumb:
Can this work with the lap top Gary if I buy a dongle or whaever its called .....
Quote from: Gary on Aug 16, 2009, 17:52:25
Or just top a pay and go once every now and then David, and still get cheap Broad band its not the useage its the fact you own one and topped up so it was working ;) If you can get away with topping up a tenner once a year maybe than why not, check how long the top up lasts
You have to top up at least a tenner every 3 months to get the cheap deal.
:thnks: Ann :thumb:
There are a number of caveats with O2, especially if it's O2 Access (BT :rant2:) which is utter cr*p.
It's worth reading all the T & C's several times.
For example, if you miss your top-up deadline you'll be invoiced at a higher rate for BB. No appeal.
Also, after the 30 days, you'll pay a penalty fee if you want to leave before your 12 month's contract is up. Even if the service is rubbish. This will make a nonsense of your 'special deal savings'.
If you encounter any exchange problems (almost certain, we're talking BT here), you'll be interleaved and O2 won't do anything about it.
When you leave, as you will, you must tell them separately from leaving that you want to leave and that you have left. Otherwise, they'll continue to invoice you for a service they no longer provide even though your line is no longer with them.
Do you get the the drift? So be very careful. :evil:
:thnks: for that Bob :eek4:
Sure you hav'nt been talking to Glenn ? ;D
:tease: What have I done now? ;D
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 16, 2009, 18:54:46
:thnks: for that Bob :eek4:
Sure you hav'nt been talking to Glenn ? ;D
;D
No. Just got the burn marks on my arse. ::) ;D
:rofl2: :rofl: :karmic:
I just spat tea everywhere Bob
Quote from: Glenn on Aug 16, 2009, 18:56:33
:tease: What have I done now? ;D
The curse of Glenn strikes again :evil: :evil:
:hehe: :ithank:
Quote from: bobleslie on Aug 16, 2009, 18:51:31
There are a number of caveats with O2, especially if it's O2 Access (BT :rant2:) which is utter cr*p.
It's worth reading all the T & C's several times.
For example, if you miss your top-up deadline you'll be invoiced at a higher rate for BB. No appeal.
Also, after the 30 days, you'll pay a penalty fee if you want to leave before your 12 month's contract is up. Even if the service is rubbish. This will make a nonsense of your 'special deal savings'.
If you encounter any exchange problems (almost certain, we're talking BT here), you'll be interleaved and O2 won't do anything about it.
When you leave, as you will, you must tell them separately from leaving that you want to leave and that you have left. Otherwise, they'll continue to invoice you for a service they no longer provide even though your line is no longer with them.
Do you get the the drift? So be very careful. :evil:
If its On access forget it, the LLU product is fine, you can use up £10 worth of credit over a few months easily I would have thought. I had no issue with leaving them and as with most companies you should cancel any direct debit when you leave, they never tried to bill me again anyway. I hated access but when I was on LLU it was very reliable and I had no issues, untill I moved and could not get LLU anymore.
Notwithstanding LLU, expressly excluded from some of the comments above, I cancelled my DDR so no unauthorised payments could be taken.
It still did not stop them invoicing me and they would have continued to do so had I not put a stop to it. Others have complained of the same treatment so it's not isolated.
BTW stopping a DDR does not stop a debt accumulating, as any Debt Collection Agency will tell you.
There is no way their system will automatically stop invoicing you despite you having migrated away without you expressly telling them that you have migrated away. They confirmed this was the case. They even maintained that I was still connected to O2 ::), but I had evidence to prove otherwise. Idiots.
So the message is clear...be careful....and don't assume anything. It cost me about £50 to get out of the contract, even though the Access service was abysmal, but I just couldn't stand it any longer. That payment made a nonsense of the savings I expected by leaving for O2 in the first place.
The message is clear....be careful out there. ::)
Also, from the O2 site:
QuoteWhen your sim arrives, go online to activate it at www.o2.co.uk/activatemysim. You will be subject to a light credit check and then the goodness of our best value sim is all yours to enjoy.
Assuming you're paying up front each month, why do they need to do a credit check? I like O2, and I've been with them ever since I've had a mobile, when they were BT Cellnet, even before Orange came along, but that struck me as a bit odd. :dunno:
What is (dumb question perhaps) the difference between this and my current phone which will go online but drives me nuts :dunno:
Ref: Light credit check.
Quote
18. What if I'm declined service from O2?
On occasion, your application will be referred to our credit department for independent assessment. If your application for service does not meet O2's requirements, we reserve the right to decline it.
If you believe our automated credit assessment of you is incorrect, as a first step, you will need to obtain a copy of your credit file from our credit and risk agency, Equifax. Please note that this may incur a charge. You can contact Equifax by sending a letter to:
Equifax
Credit File Advice Centre
P.O. Box 1140
Bradford
BD1 5US
Alternatively, you can use the following link to seek an online response:
www.equifax.com/consumer/creditreport/en_uk
Once you have obtained your credit file, please send the credit file with a covering letter to:
Credit Risk Management
O2
Arlington Business Centre
Millshaw Park Lane
Leeds
S11 0NE
Alternatively, you can send an email to: CreditFileReferrals@o2.com
We will then review your eligibility, and will contact you in writing with the final decision.
Seems to me like a company that has become too big for its boots. Easy to ignore. ;D
Actually, I'm not quite with it tonight. :red: I was thinking of it as pay as you go, but it isn't, and you are indeed, paying in arrears, so that explains why they do the credit check.
;D ;D Simon keep up ;D
I'm trying! ;D
Yes Rik said that ;D
And he knows. ;D
I use a splint. :whistle:
Quote from: bobleslie on Aug 16, 2009, 21:28:26
Ref: Light credit check.
Seems to me like a company that has become too big for its boots. Easy to ignore. ;D
Try Orange credit checks and see how you get on, O2 are not that bad, yes their access package is very bad but tbh so many checks are made on us each day anyway who cares, if your going to get that wrapped up in a company because you had a bad experience (no offence to you bobleslie, as I have done the same as well) then you will end up not having a contract with anyone in the end, not everyone's experiences are bad, but as far as the mobile telcos, well they are all as bad as each other, a swift phone call generally sorts issues out. Maybe there will be the minority of cases where it won't but if you read reviews for all mobile companies in the UK you will see no body likes the ones they are with ::) that says it all.
Not with you, Gary. I'm a very happy O2 mobile customer. Have been for many years. ;D
Quote from: bobleslie on Aug 17, 2009, 11:11:16
Not with you, Gary. I'm a very happy O2 mobile customer. Have been for many years. ;D
Erm so am I ;D
Seems that only Home Access suffers from problems. Everything else is just great from O2. :thumb:
Customer services tries to be really helpful, but unless you get through to the actual tech line (line 2 or 3?) you just get a script read fault finding exercise.
It seems a deal has been made...
QuoteAfter the latest issues with BT 21CN affecting 21CN and 20CN lines we are pleased to confirm that we have today signed a contract to provide broadband access using the BE network and LLU connections.
More info (http://aaisp.net.uk/broadband-be.html), it's not cheap.
Since I have no LLU at my exchange, no point :( Sometimes moving house has benefits and issues, I love where i live but miss LLU in the exchange ::) Not that Justina would let me decide where we move on exchange criteria ;D
Strange, it's on my checklist, Gary. :)
Looks like the BT/Openreach fiasco is going to get even worse. (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/21/bt_local_loop/)
Someone else to blame when your line goes belly up.... All of this may suit the accountants but responsibility becomes ever more diffuse to the point where nobody takes responsibility for anything whatever.
Those whom the Gods would destroy etc....
I think I'm going to put up a satellite, it will be less painful in the end. :shake:
I don't quite see how this helps AAISP's home users, the basic package costs double what BE themselves would charge on a three month contract and that's with unlimited downloads.
QuoteLooks like the BT/Openreach fiasco is going to get even worse.
It's not surprising, they've been looking for awhile now to offload what is a heavily regulated and unionised division of BT. No different than what the other utility companies do; it's going to be even more complicated for ISPs and their customers when chasing up sloppy work though.
Accountability to be replaced by accountancy. :(
Quote from: Rik on Aug 21, 2009, 10:59:45
Accountability to be replaced by accountancy. :(
I really pity any ISP trying to get a grip on this. Effectively BT are handing the profitable stuff to the LLU operators. It's instructive to look at Apple's business model. Concentrate on the higher, profitable, end leaving everyone else with the low mArgin low profit stuff. Market share means nothing if it's not profitable.
Exactly. And Ofcom fiddles... :(
Quote from: Tacitus on Aug 21, 2009, 10:44:44
Looks like the BT/Openreach fiasco is going to get even worse. (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/21/bt_local_loop/)
Someone else to blame when your line goes belly up.... All of this may suit the accountants but responsibility becomes ever more diffuse to the point where nobody takes responsibility for anything whatever.
Those whom the Gods would destroy etc....
I noticed this related article (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/07/bt_muswell_hill/) while reading that. If this is going to be the case, then it seems BT can't actually win.
Quote from: Simon on Aug 21, 2009, 14:21:14
I noticed this related article (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/07/bt_muswell_hill/) while reading that. If this is going to be the case, then it seems BT can't actually win.
This was in a conservation area so I would anticipate problems even if the boxes are painted green. I doubt there would be more than an average amount of trouble over siting the boxes in other areas.
Hopefully not. :)
I have a perfect location for mine, it's about 20 metres from the door. ;D
Or, you could find a map of where they are putting them, and move next to one. ;D
No need, Simon, I know where ours is going to go, and it's at 213m. OTOH, if they want an alternative site, I have just the location for them, and it's so much closer. :)
Pay me land rent etc and they could put one next to my front door
I already have a distribution point in my meter cupboard. A nice BT engineer made sure I got the best pair coming in that he could find. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Aug 21, 2009, 16:36:58
A nice BT engineer made sure I got the best pair coming in that he could find. ;D
How can they tell what's good and what's not, Rik?
I am interested, because I've got a new line being installed in a few days time.
:)
Quote from: Rik on Aug 21, 2009, 08:47:39
Strange, it's on my checklist, Gary. :)
A home by the sea with 8mb full sync adsl max in a truly stunning harbour village, or looking for LLU? Nope the Full sync ADSL Max is fine by me as the village I live in is beautiful and the Bungalow and Garden more than make up for LLU not being here, and I would not have changed my mind for anything, after all the internet is not real world, my life and my home and our happiness are ;D
Quote from: lodge on Aug 21, 2009, 21:50:41
How can they tell what's good and what's not, Rik?
I am interested, because I've got a new line being installed in a few days time.
:)
They check the resistance, they can also measure the length of the pair, which can vary, even within a cabinet.
Quote from: Gary on Aug 22, 2009, 07:45:41
after all the internet is not real world, my life and my home and our happiness are ;D
OTOH, if you can get both... ;)