Subtly different from other threads, this is about whether WBC has lived up to your expectations, fallen short or surpassed them. No "I'm having problems..." posts, please, this is just about gathering people's feelings about WBC. :)
For myself, the migration was fairly painless and not too dissimilar to a new Max line. Downstream speeds have settled where I would have expected, upstream are not quite as good as I can achieve on a premium Max product. The one thing I have noticed is that the advertised lower latency simply has not shown up for me. Stability is not as good as Max, and that is disappointing.
Overall, I'd be reluctant to recommend anyone to move to WBC if they have my kind of line stats, I feel it's more a product for people with higher speed Max connections, and in that respect, nothing has changed - I started off believing just that.
My changeover went smooth enough but didnt see any great increase in downstream but did in Upstream .If asked I would advise anyone to give it time before switching I would suggest even a year from now I am sure it will live up to expectations but give it time perhaps my expectations were too high
Managing expectations will be critical with WBC. Thanks, David. :)
Fallen well, well short, considering I have a top quality ADSL line.
I'd compare WBC to that nasty little TV dinner that's been kicked around the floor for a week in Tesco before finding itself being sold off at half price on the damaged goods shelf :laugh:
Its rate adaptive nature coupled with BT's antique infrastructure make it an unsuitable product for ISPs that are not on LLU'd equipment. In short I'd describe it as a lottery.
Sorry, but you did ask ;D
Thanks, guys, that's the sort of thing I'm looking for. No amount of stats will convey the 'feeling' of WBC to someone considering the move. Personal reactions are exactly what I want. :)
Having seen more negative comments than good ones, although, that was inevitable, as people more often complain than praise, I am pleased I didn't upgrade, and have no intention of doing so at this time.
Ignoring BT's knack of not supplying the requested extra capacity when it went live...
Sync is lower than I'd hoped/expected (~12,500 vs 15-16,000), and what I assume is the error rate on the line means that I'm on interleaved rather than fast and target SNR is 9db rather than the 6db I was expecting.
THBS, the transition was smooth and now that a few resyncs seem to have settled on values that the exchange kit is happy with, it's a good stable connection with an 11,000Kbps profile and a regular >10Mbps download speed (tbb speedtester) with very few indications of congestion anywhere.
Interleaved means pings are up around 20msec (a lot better than I expected) but as I don't do gaming, who cares?
And of course, a much bigger d/l allowance. Spoilt a little by the fact that I can't find how to do scheduled downloads from the iTunes store so there's been a few late nights :yawn:.
Overall- glad I switched.
Thanks, Bill. :)
My problems have been well covered elsewhere, but I wouldn't recommend upgrading. I had a rock solid 7.5 Mb connection with max, that deteriorated over the two weeks following the switch to WBC.
After a lot of work by support, they got me back to where I was on Max, and in fact my sync has improved to 8.5Mb (though as yet no corresponding increase in profile). However, I've been looking at SNR of between 3.0 and 4.5 for the last two days, and fear that the deterioration will start again soon enough.
The infrastructure is simply not capable of supporting WBC.
Steve
Thanks, Steve. :)
The switchover was diabolical, if you happened to be on the wrong hardware or firmware. Neither BT nor the router makers did anything at all to help this.
I can only guess at the problems BT have put IDNet tech staff through, but these have affected us also.
I now have more than double the connection rate of Max and about 20% more throughput. Congestion is as bad as before in relative terms, although ping times are much lower. Good for gamers, I guess.
To clarify my remarks about throughput and congestion, on Max I got between 2M and 5M throughput, with outlying results at both ends of the scale. On WBC, I now get between 3M and 11M with a 17000 profile. This has been slowly declining from original results between 10M and 16M.
I have just stopped my router for a few minutes and re-started it. The (relatively) slow throughput and big throughput swings are still there.
I'm not actually suffering, but page-loading delays have become noticeable and annoying, not to mention slow/halting file downloads.
So much for WBC.
Richard
My switch-over was quite painless but I've seen little improvement in speed (6200 rather than 6000) and the experience is well short of my expectations. If I had the choice again I wouldn't bother. Maybe a year will sort out some of the problems that other people are having but I can't see it improving my situation.
Come on, I can't be the only one who's happy to have switched? :happy:
Is that an echo? :)x
Quote from: Bill on Jul 20, 2009, 22:43:31
Come on, I can't be the only one who's happy to have switched?
You're not.
My migration to WBC was seamless, halved latency, doubled up/down sync and [almost] doubled my BT profile.
I'm also paying less and have an extra 10Gb download allowance to play with.
Stability isn't what it used to be so I'm deliberately being a bit panglossian in assuming WBC will eventually stabilise once it becomes the norm.
I'll probably come to regret that last sentence...
Quote from: Bill on Jul 20, 2009, 22:43:31
Come on, I can't be the only one who's happy to have switched? :happy:
You aren't. ;D
I'm happy. Switch over was plain and simple for me, although I required a new router as I was using a 6 year old device that did not support ADSL2+. I replaced it with a Netgear DG834 v4. This has been excellent on the line, with sync averaging at around 15500 (lowest I've had was 14400 and highest 16800) with 27db attenuation downstream. Throughput is greatly increased also, however it is only really noticeable when downloading large files.
The best bit in my opnion is the increased upload speed. I'm syncing at around 1200 and this is a vast improvement on the 384 I had on ADSL Max. Great for video/voice.
:thumb:
i'm tempted to change - even before my exhange is actually enabled simply to get an increased monthly allownace from idnet for exactly the same money as i pay now.
if i got any sort of speed improvement on my cr4p current speed i'd be happy...esp if latency reduced as i do online gaming.
but some of the bad stories hear make me think 'if it aint broke, don't fix it'.
maybe by the time my exchange is enabled......30th Sept 09....the process might be a little smoother.
is the infrastructure really not capable of supporting wbc ?
It is for a lot of people but not for others. It's a lottery and the only way you'll find out unfortunately is to try it. I suspect there are more success stories than failures but the ratio between the two is very hard to gauge as those that shout loudest will alway be those that are unhappy with the service.
One thing that is apparent is that latency is better on WBC so if you play online games it's probably worth taking the gamble.
OTOH, for me, latency has been identical between WBC and Max, Zap, so even that's a lottery.
I'll add that there do seem to be different stability criteria. Despite my earlier woes with WBC, I've had a rock solid connection faster than my line should be able to handle, and with an SNR that peaks at 3.5 (early in the morning) and has dropped as low as 2 in the evening without losing sync.
Or maybe I'm just being incredibly lucky.
Steve
Whereas I'm seeing re-syncs from a 9db NM, Steve. I think you're right, and I suspect the differences come down to the MSANs.
Quote from: D-Dan on Jul 22, 2009, 15:04:49
Or maybe I'm just being incredibly lucky.
Steve
Somebody has to be Steve, that's the nature of a lottery ;D
It is, perhaps, worth mentioning that, if you make the move to WBC, you cannot go back to a 'real' Max product, BT are ripping out the DSLAMs as fast as they can go. Instead, you will be put on a WBC service which is profiled to look like a Max product.
So it's a one way only shift.
It is. :(
Perhaps BT are throwing out too much before replacing it with the new? :shake:
It feels that way, Bob. :(
Trying to boost profitability, no doubt. :whistle:
I think so, certainly that's the feeling I am getting from everything I hear.
Nothing short of excellent for me.
Changeover was smooth and once the line settled it was stable and twice as fast as my ADSL Max connection which had a line profile of 7500.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 22, 2009, 15:08:19
Whereas I'm seeing re-syncs from a 9db NM, Steve. I think you're right, and I suspect the differences come down to the MSANs.
Which will hopefully be cured over time with firmware updates...
As for me, the switchover was seamless and quick, but it meant about 9 pages (so far) on another thread as to speed/instability issues. Guess BT is not thinking on the basics (aka infrastructure) because that's the expensive (non profitable) bit to deal with. So, they are chucking-in products until something, at some point, just breaks the seams... which is what is happening with WBC. From reading the threads here it seems the score is 8 to 2 on ppl with issues of some sort. That's telling.
It puts providers (as IDnet) on a tough situation as they cannot walk away from ADSL2+ (if they want to continue to attract custom) yet WBC is all over the place, at this stage. So wonder what the best course of action would be. If it is about managing expectations, then IDNet should consider evaluating any existing/prospective customer BT line performance BEFORE even offering the service (even if WBC is available in your area). So the parameters would be relatively short distance from the exchange, line testing, etc. Simple and I believe even if it warrants an extra sales cost, what you save in FTEs of ppl in support dealing with angry customers, or walk-outs due to expectations not met, more than compensates.
QuoteIt puts providers (as IDnet) on a tough situation as they cannot walk away from ADSL2+ (if they want to continue to attract custom)
Well, you never know, if IDNet were to ditch ADSL2+ and only offer Max, it might attract customers who've heard horror stories, and don't want to be switched. ;)
Quote from: troesma on Aug 01, 2009, 13:14:57
I believe even if it warrants an extra sales cost, what you save in FTEs of ppl in support dealing with angry customers, or walk-outs due to expectations not met, more than compensates.
I agree that managing expectations is crucial, and I think lessons have been learnt on that, the hard way. I confess to being reluctant to make the move, and my judgement was right in that I gained little or nothing (sometimes, I manage an extra 500k on the profile for a few days). Pings are much the same as on Max, the upstream is lower than a Max premium product.
QuoteWell, you never know, if IDNet were to ditch ADSL2+ and only offer Max, it might attract customers who've heard horror stories, and don't want to be switched. ;)
But BT are not going to be maintaining Dslams as much, so that could be like shooting yourself in the foot to get out the war
Quote from: Simon on Aug 01, 2009, 13:17:27
Well, you never know, if IDNet were to ditch ADSL2+ and only offer Max, it might attract customers who've heard horror stories, and don't want to be switched. ;)
The only problem being that Max is more expensive to provide than WBC, so customers would, eventually, have to pay for that.
There is still no date set for WBC on my exchange, 21CN should be live now.
Curious how they are doing things in such a random way, isn't it. We go 21Cn next year, a year after WBC.
Quote from: Glenn on Aug 01, 2009, 13:21:19
There is still no date set for WBC on my exchange, 21CN should be live now.
We don't have a date for either, Glenn. Our exchange is forgotten I fear :'(
Quote from: Rik on Aug 01, 2009, 13:22:53
Curious how they are doing things in such a random way, isn't it. We go 21Cn next year, a year after WBC.
The phrase, "arse about face", springs to mind. :)
Yup.
"Managing expectations", might include telling the truth.
For example, telling people "Our survey of exchange capacity shows that people will rarely get throughput more that 11 Mbps even on short lines."
Richard
Quote from: rireed3 on Aug 01, 2009, 13:25:57
"Managing expectations", might include telling the truth.
For example, telling people "Our survey of exchange capacity shows that people will rarely get throughput more that 11 Mbps even on short lines."
Richard
Woefully far behind so may countries, and look how much this cost as well :sigh:
Quote from: rireed3 on Aug 01, 2009, 13:25:57
"Managing expectations", might include telling the truth.
For example, telling people "Our survey of exchange capacity shows that people will rarely get throughput more that 11 Mbps even on short lines."
Richard
Yup. Putting a warning sign as those you see in fag packs...
"Switching to WBC might seriously deteriorate your health"
;D
Our own ADSL2+ lines in our office sync at 22Mbps and deliver a throughput of 18Mbps. ADSL2+ also has a longer reach than ADSL Max so lines that currently are too long to receive any service at all may, in theory, get some connectivity using 2+.
It is the line in the range 0.5Mbps to 3.5Mbps that stand to experience no speed improvment from 2+.
Simon
Mine is right in the middle of that range :(
So now we know who's got the good line.. when I did those tester things to see what my line should get it used to say something like 13mb. haha. I often can't even watch iPlayer it's so slow.
Any LLU options at your exchange, Ann?
Quote from: Sebby on Aug 01, 2009, 16:55:00
Any LLU options at your exchange, Ann?
Yes several. I have to stop moaning and do some research ;D
:)x
Quote from: Rik on Jul 22, 2009, 17:59:45
It is, perhaps, worth mentioning that, if you make the move to WBC, you cannot go back to a 'real' Max product, BT are ripping out the DSLAMs as fast as they can go. Instead, you will be put on a WBC service which is profiled to look like a Max product.
Is that still the case even if you move ISP's?
I'm still getting very poor throughput and just seem to be getting fobbed off each time I contact support. At the moment I am doing the BT speedtest 3 times a day for a week and have to give them the results.
I'm thinking of giving WBC a try as I can't see it getting any worse on MAX than it is at the moment. How long is the downtime when moving to WBC?
Also, would it be just a coincidence that my speeds have been suffering since my exchange was updated for WBC? I did not know what date this was done but have just looked and it was the start of June, which ties in with the start of my problems.
As I understand it, once you move to WBC, it's unlikely that even changing ISPs would get you back to where you were before on Max. Not sure if it's the same for LLU, but someone else will confirm that.
Doesn't bother me if I move ISPs and get the same rubbish speeds, at least I'll paying half the price I am now.
It'll be interesting to see if the move improves matters.
I'll let you know. I've asked for a MAC so give me a couple of weeks.
Quote from: Ann on Aug 02, 2009, 20:46:49
Doesn't bother me if I move ISPs and get the same rubbish speeds, at least I'll paying half the price I am now.
The thing is, I'm almost 100% you won't have rubbish speeds on LLU. There was nothing wrong with your connection pre-WBC.
Quote from: Ann on Aug 02, 2009, 20:46:49
Doesn't bother me if I move ISPs and get the same rubbish speeds, at least I'll paying half the price I am now.
Most companies charge £17 a month on ADSL Ann but unless you go LLU as Sebby and a few others have said, nothing will change really its the same line same BT equipment its WBC that causes problems.
Well I'm speeding along here at 900 kbps or so on the WBC juggernaut with a steady 16000 profile.
Steady as a rock. ::) :mad:
Well, on the bright side, you won't get done for speeding, Bob. ;D :out:
:nana: ;D
I've just paid a speeding fine. :o
Oops. :(
But it wasn't on here. ;)
It was in the neanderthal area of the UK called Suffolkem. ;D
I'll be there in October... Must make sure the TomTom is up to date. :)
I was going to say, make sure your TumTum's full. ;)
However, I've just spent 5 days in the wilderness thanks to BT, so this is the first opportunity. ::)
What did they do to you, Bob?
No internet access and no line problems. i.e. good sync, just no internet access at all.
No idea yet what problem was.
Sounds like a radius server was set wrong, but it could be a dozen other things I guess. :(
I wonder what BT's Xmas parties are like? :eyebrow:
:lol:
I expect I'll find out in due course. I was using the internet in the early hours of last Tuesday and I was disconnected from internet. Sync was still there just no DNS. For the last 5 days it has synced daily fine at mostly 18000+, but no internet at all except for sporadic connection at speeds lower than dial up. Suspect this was BT testing.
Seems o.k. at moment. I'd be very interested in the technical reasons for such a break in service.
Check with support, Bob, but it sounds like BT disconnected the circuit between the MSAN (where you achieved sync) and the rest of the network. :(
Support said there was a break in the connection 'cos they couldn't complete a full line test, so.....that figures. That's when the fault was logged last Tuesday morning.
Yes, of course, I'll try and get an explanation from Support. ;)
If it helps to cure the low throughput problems, I'll consider it time well spent. >:D
If :fingers:
Well, if not, BT has some more work to do.... :whistle:
I think they have a lot more work to do regardless. ;)
:hehe: I'm sure you're right. :o
Quote from: Rik on Aug 09, 2009, 15:14:28
I think they have a lot more work to do regardless. ;)
They still do here. Just done, a minute or so ago. It's a 'good' night as well! ::) :shake:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 18212 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1112 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 15000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3266 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.
Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.
Mine is similar..
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 11020 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1079 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 9000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3804 kbps
I thought something might have changed at 9:38 this morning (Sunday)
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 19247 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1216 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 16000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 14119 kbps
But now, 9:28 this evening (Sunday)
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 19247 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1216 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 16000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1538 kbps
:sigh:
Seems we're all members of 'The Go-Slow Club'. ;D
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 5411 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 924 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 4500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 378 kbps
Can I play ? :rant2:
Given that a few forum members are no longer with IDNet, but still discussing WBC issues, I wonder if it would be useful if those members could indicate in their sig, which ISP they are now with?
You get the impression that there's a capacity issue somewhere on the BT side, whether it's backhaul from nodes or congested VPs. Odd that they can't seem to find it.
Date 10/08/09 09:35:12
Speed Down 4239.52 Kbps ( 4.1 Mbps )
Speed Up 775.85 Kbps ( 0.8 Mbps )
Port 8095
Server speedtest1.thinkbroadband.com
IP Address 81.187.95.2
I did a BT test at 10am this morning and got the attached result however I did a speed test at TBB ten minutes later and got speeds of 3.01Mbps and 0.8Mbps. That seems strange to me.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Neither's a good result for that profile, though, Noreen. :(
I would have thought that the TBB figure would be the higher of the two, not the other way round. The BT result is the highest I've had for several weeks, usually been getting around 1 - 2Mbps. I noticed that the router logs show that the connection was down a lot yesterday.
Personally, I trust the BT result more than any, Noreen. When it works, it's pretty accurate. The others always work, but are prone to server load. I wish I had an explanation for the problems that you, and others, are seeing - and I would bet IDNet do too. Something is wrong, it's not just affecting IDNet, but BT seem strangely unable to find out what it is. :(
I spoke too soon, just lost the connection for a while.
I've been OK with WBC, though it's not as stable as Max for me. I find it hard, though, to recommend anyone move to it until we see an end to these problems, particularly as there's no way back.
Well, I'm going to forget about it for a while, got a friend visiting. ;D
Sounds like a good move. Enjoy. :)
My conclusion is that its a lottery and the losers are at the mercy of them there are too many red herrings for me to know who to believe any longerTime is the only thing which will show this service be what it was sold as.......its just how long ?
Im thinking of taking up knitting :shake:
Just don't drop one, David. ;D
Stable door and horse spring to mind ;)
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 09, 2009, 22:28:40
Can I play ? :rant2:
Of course. You're a founder member. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Aug 10, 2009, 09:39:01
You get the impression that there's a capacity issue somewhere on the BT side, whether it's backhaul from nodes or congested VPs. Odd that they can't seem to find it.
Oh I think they know more than they're letting on. They just don't want to do anything about it. :o
Sadly, Bob, you're probably right. :(
Quote from: Simon on Aug 10, 2009, 00:07:08
Given that a few forum members are no longer with IDNet, but still discussing WBC issues, I wonder if it would be useful if those members could indicate in their sig, which ISP they are now with?
When I am no longer with IDNet, I won't post in these sorts of threads.. I agree it would be silly to do so.
I disagree, Ann. It's useful to see things from "the outside", as any data we can gather here may help towards resolving some of the issues. :)
I'm with Simon, Ann. So far, the only extra data we have is from David, who has gone to AAISP, but his problems have moved with him.
Yep, and we're still stuck with him! :evil:
;D
Well, strictly either Brighton or Hastings is right now. ;D
Perhaps they'll keep him there. ;D :whistle:
I give it four hours. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Aug 10, 2009, 15:56:06
I give it four hours. ;D
As long as that? ;D
You'll notice I was careful not to qualify that. 8-)
He might come back with a ladyboy - or, perhaps an even worse thought, AS one! :pmsl:
:zip: ;D
:rofl2: :out:
;D
It would be interesting to know the ratio of long term success stories. On the one hand it's more likely that you'll only hear about problems which may be a small proportion. However you have to take into account there maybe quite a few people that don't realise they had a better service before the move.
Plus there's a lot more customers than forum members, Zap.
I guess mine is a success story, a little more speed at the cost of some instability, but no more than one re-sync a day.
Quote from: Simon on Aug 10, 2009, 00:07:08
Given that a few forum members are no longer with IDNet, but still discussing WBC issues, I wonder if it would be useful if those members could indicate in their sig, which ISP they are now with?
Simon
What a good suggestion, I think it would be more than useful as you suggest, it is essential. To maintain a fair picture of events this information should be displayed ;)
We can't make it compulsory, Q, but indeed, it would be helpful. :)
I got this result this afternoon, at James' request. I'll do another for him shortly.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Absolutely, Simon! :thumb:
Quote from: Noreen on Aug 10, 2009, 17:16:41
I got this result this afternoon, at James' request. I'll do another for him shortly.
It is shifting around a bit, isn't it, Noreen, and you seem to have lost some sync speed too. :(
How's the arm coming along?
The arm is getting better, Rik, although it's fairly stiff. Which is to be expected I suppose. ;D
Just got this result for James.
[attachment deleted by admin]
It's crazy, I'm getting 3M+ on a 4M sync. :shake:
I'm glad the arm is on the mend, though. :)
I've just been sending BT speedtest screenshots in batches to support for the last couple of weeks, in response to an earlier announcement request to send details of consistently low throughput.
Should I actually report it to support as an individual WBC problem, or is it still being dealt with en masse? :dunno:
[attachment deleted by admin]
I stopped sending mine because, I reasoned, if Support wanted more they would ask. :dunno:
I just feel fortunate to be back on line, almost at any speed.
That feeling won't last long, though. ;)
QuoteOf course. You're a founder member.
:rofl:
QuoteWhen I am no longer with IDNet, I won't post in these sorts of threads.. I agree it would be silly to do so.
I would have thought ,the broader the map the better idea of the worst affected ,the isp I don't feel is the issue ,or if it is this method will help highlight issues which may be more relevent to BT rather than an isp ?
The worst affected area wont necessarily be with only one provider and if it proves it is then this helps.
I would have thought this way might benefit all :dunno:
It could do, David. We value any collaborative data which might help existing, and indeed, future users. :thumb:
Okay okay but if I were to post something at least I would state that this was not an IDNet connection.
Quote from: Ann on Aug 11, 2009, 07:52:06
Okay okay but if I were to post something at least I would state that this was not an IDNet connection.
It's what I've been doing since I joined :)
I think that the more data we can obtain, from whatever ISP a member is connected to, the better we can help people make informed choices, so please do post experiences if you move to another ISP.
My experience of WBC is one of disappointment.
The switchover was somewhat delayed but eventually happened correctly.
On ADSL Max I got about 2.5 Mbps download. For the first few weeks (about 4) on WBC I got 3.5 Mbps download with equivalent profile. Hooray. Then it suddenly reduced to about 2 (with a 2000kbps profile) for no apparent reason. No changes of equipment or wiring at my end. The first time I complained it went up to 5 for a few days, seemed stable, and then went back to 2. The last time I complained it went up to 6.5 (wow) for a day and then back to 2. I have eliminated my internal wiring as a cause by replacing it. When it goes down to 2 it doesn't go in stages like it's doing some sort of training. It does it in one go.
So my WBC experience is that I get a lower download speed than ADSL Max, and it costs the same, so that is not good.
When it drops to 2M, what is your noise margin and does your router indicate a number of re-syncs? It sounds to me like you line is unstable - WBC is more sensitive to noise than Max. It does costs the same as Max, but you do get more bandwidth for your money.
I'll post here because it's been a nightmare. look up any posts by me, rather than typing it all in again. I now pay £4 a month more for 2/3rds less speed. How lnog can IDnt last if this continues.
Gosh! I've actually managed to stay connected for 16 hours although according to TBB I've only got a download speed of just over 2Mbps, can't get on the BT speed test. Usually I've had to reboot the router everytime I wanted to go online but didn't have to this morning. Don't know if this is just a one-off so keeping fingers crossed. :fingers:
You and me both, Noreen.
As regards which item, Rik, not sure what you mean?
I was interested to read this
QuoteFor the first few weeks (about 4) on WBC I got 3.5 Mbps download with equivalent profile. Hooray. Then it suddenly reduced to about 2 (with a 2000kbps profile) for no apparent reason.
Because that's about what happened to me. For the first couple of weeks I was getting a lovely constant and stable 14Mbps then suddenly it all changed to constant disconnections and miserable speeds.
I was just crossing my fingers in sympathy. ;)
Thanks, Rik. I'd wondered if you were also suffering. ;D
No, strangely enough, my connection has been reasonably reliable - less stable than Max, but no huge swings in throughput. The latter only seem to have affected people with high profiles, making me (cynically) wonder whether BT hasn't the bandwidth available for the higher speeds so is throttling them.
I spoke too soon, just got disconnected and had to reboot to get online again.
My last good speed BT test was on the 13 July, it all went wrong sometime after that.
There is something fundamentally flawed in WBC. I wonder whether the software updates being installed at nodes is related?
Quote from: Rik on Aug 14, 2009, 10:57:21
There is something fundamentally flawed in WBC.
It's called BT.
;D
Quote from: Bill on Aug 14, 2009, 12:54:12
It's called BT.
Pure genius Bill. ;D What do we do about it?
Quote from: Rik on Aug 14, 2009, 14:49:39
What do we do about it?
The usual thing I imagine- get BT to spend some money and hire some people who know what they're doing.
Fat chance :wall:
BT have announced a series of WBC "Capacity Upgrades" that are due to be rolled-out over the course of the weekend, to be completed by 6pm on Monday.
They say that they have recently "uncovered" an issue with the capacity management process which has caused parts of the network to be "under-dimensioned" [that's a new one!]
These upgrades "should cause no disruption to service".
Simon
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Aug 14, 2009, 15:11:55
These upgrades "should cause no disruption to service".
That'll be a first! ;D
Thanks, Simon. Amazing how they come up with this stuff, isn't it. They must take degrees in obfuscation!
Thanks for the update Simon and let's hope the all new fully-dimensioned network brings some benefits :laugh:
I bet it won't be as fully dimensioned as me. ;D
:lol:
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Aug 14, 2009, 15:11:55parts of the network to be "under-dimensioned"
They probably typed in kbps instead of Gbps...
:rofl: :karmic:
Maybe they have just got back from a course in installation and maintainance of the new system. ;D
Is this likely to have any effect on my problems or is it dealing with a different one?
We hope that it's the cure BT have been looking for, Noreen, but given the smokescreen of words, we can only wait and see.
Quote from: cavillas on Aug 14, 2009, 17:26:46
Maybe they have just got back from a course in installation and maintainance of the new system. ;D
Entirely possible, Alf. :)
Wow! Simon asked me to do a speed test and I've just got this. ;D
[attachment deleted by admin]
Getting there. :thumb:
Whoever came up with under-dimensioned needs to be dragged into a street and kicked to death.
Should they clear their desk first, Niall? :lol:
That's a bit harsh imo, can we not just scoop out their insides with a small spoon? :laugh:
im sooooo glad that my exchange (camborne) isnt wbc enabled yet, i would have been tempted to swap from max.
Don't worry, Pup, we'd have soon talked sense into you. ;D
I've just asked my nephew who works for BT Openreach what "under-dimensioned" means. He said that he'd never heard of it and that they are instructed to not use jargon. ;D
;D
Clearly it's an instruction which hasn't reached the WBC team.
I think we all know what "under-dimensioned resourced" means. ::)
;D
I think it probably means they just worked out that bytes and bits aren't the same thing. :evil:
;D
Simples! ;)
Here's another view of all things BT WBC (http://aaisp.blogspot.com/2009/08/ongoing-bt-21cn-issues.html).
I think IDNet might identify closely with the feeling expressed...
BTW I think the 'upgrade' has much more to do with this (http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=26957) than sorting out our problems. ::)
The Any Questions? section in the above link is hilarious. :whistle:
Cynical, Bob?
Can I have the Mercedes?
You mean the Spanish dancer? :o
Quote from: Rik on Aug 15, 2009, 17:40:39
Cynical, Bob?
Not exactly, Rik. The new service is aimed particularly at BT Total Broadband users, so who do you guess will be soaking up all the new bandwidth?
Is it a coincidence that a national advertising campaign for the 'faster' service starts on Monday?
OTOH, that's BT Retail who, in theory, stand in exactly the same relationship as IDNet when it comes to BT Wholesale.
I used the checker and guess what according to them I can enjoy up to the maximim speeds if I sign up........where do I sign :eyebrow:
:pig:
Whatever the 'theory', Rik, only BT Retail has sufficient clout to get BTW off their backsides to do an "across the board" series of upgrades for a service which can then be advertised nationally on TV and Press as a 'faster' service.
Such an upgrade to be completed by day one of said advertising campaign. :eyebrow:
Let me put it another way. If come Monday evening I can stream a video without constant re-buffering and can complete a BT speedtester without being requested to go to Test 2 I might be less 'cynical'. ;D
In blood, David, on the bottom line. :)
:no: pass , ;D
Yeah. They're not to be trusted. They say the maximum I'll get is a 9 Mb connection. :shake:
I would prefer the liposuction ;D ;D
At least you get an anaesthetic while they extract the pound of flesh. ;D
I would give it to them willingly to stay away from BT ..........Hate is a word so Strong I don't use it often ,but on this occasion I will make an exception ;D
I think we all feel the same. Whatever we do, we can't get away from them, with some very minor exceptions.
This just inflicts so much damage to the industry,and the blame imho sits with BT end of story
It does, but most people don't realise and don't care, David. :(
Most people will blame who they have the contract with, their ISP.
Most do as they dont fully realise the dynamics of this.....I have learned the very hard way but I feel a better person for it ;D ;D
The sad thing is that BT are in a position to ruin other people's businesses and get away with it. >:(
Yes and hav,nt they shown it clearly over tha pst two months or so causing bad feeling ,migrations loss of revenue god knows what is must be like to be at the front line :shake:
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 15, 2009, 18:18:47
I used the checker and guess what according to them I can enjoy up to the maximim speeds if I sign up........where do I sign :eyebrow:
Mine was fun. If I put in my phone number I get 6mb speed but my postcode gets 7mb. In fact I get more. It's not too accurate.
So Ann, what's your experience on LLU so far with Be..? If things don't improve I'm very tempted to migrate, but then, I've heard so many promises... :-X
It's that 'up to' thing again, isn't it? Perhaps BT should only be paid 'up to' their current line rental charges, dependant on the standard of the service?
Dreaming costs nothing :rant2:
I must be living the dream:
Thursday:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 19247 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1216 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 16000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 9257 kbps
Saturday (today):
http://www.speedtest.net/result/540881473.png (http://www.speedtest.net/result/540881473.png)
But if I went with BT Total Broadbane:
We estimate your maximum connection speed to be 8.0Mbps
Quote from: troesma on Aug 15, 2009, 21:37:40
So Ann, what's your experience on LLU so far with Be..? If things don't improve I'm very tempted to migrate, but then, I've heard so many promises... :-X
It's fine so far. But then it's only been five days. I seem to get the same speed whatever time of day which is novel. It just seems to work at the moment. I'm ever aware that things can change but it's cheap so I'm not so bothered.
I'm happy with my decision. I don't think I could have done anythiing else given the circumstances. I feel for IDNet who fall foul of BT and have to put up with their problems but I couldn't afford to hang around.
:wall: I want some...I want some :bawl:
Quote from: Simon on Aug 15, 2009, 21:42:37
It's that 'up to' thing again, isn't it? Perhaps BT should only be paid 'up to' their current line rental charges, dependant on the standard of the service?
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/5/1/
:)
How true. ;D :thumb:
:thumb: Sums it up right
Well, I've stayed connected for over 54 hours now which is next-door to a miracle! Speed was over 8Mbps this morning but has slowed down a bit now. So I can only presume that they've done something. ;D
Have you tried a BT test, Noreen?
I did this morning, with the 8752kbps result.
Not felt like punishing yourself since? ;)
Can't do the test at the moment, get error message.
Just got 3.5Mbps on TBB.
They haven't re-dimensioned the tester then. :(
Quote from: Rik on Aug 16, 2009, 17:35:55
They haven't re-dimensioned the tester then. :(
The multi dimensional time redistribution hex configuration has lost access to the continuum in the east hemisphere. Either that or the flange sprocket is clogged up again.
:rofl: :karmic:
They just can't get the widgets these days.
:rofl: :lol: That would explain a lot Niall ;D
:karmic: Niall! ;D
In reply to Rik reply 129 about my post 128 (it's on page 6).
Rik: "When it drops to 2M, what is your noise margin and does your router indicate a number of re-syncs?"
The router does not resync at all (as far as I can tell). The top part of "adslctl info --stats" is here:
# adslctl info --stats
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1001 Kbps, Downstream rate = 2269 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 19.8 6.2
Attn(dB): 45.0 22.1
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 12.7
Max(Kbps): 7876 1008
Rate (Kbps): 2269 1001
BT have now reduced me to a profile of 1750kbps:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 2269 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1084 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 1750 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1615 kbps
I went to the BT Broadband checker page as well as the speedtest. That says my line should get 4Mbps on ADSL Max. There's clearly something not right. Either their sales page is telling me lies or there is something wrong with the line.
Edit: I also did the 17070 quiet line test. That had no strange noises so I presume that was successful.
Thanks
Chris
Quote from: Rik on Aug 16, 2009, 17:35:55
They haven't re-dimensioned the tester then. :(
That seems likely. :)x
Quote from: cwmusson on Aug 16, 2009, 23:55:43
In reply to Rik reply 129 about my post 128 (it's on page 6).
Rik: "When it drops to 2M, what is your noise margin and does your router indicate a number of re-syncs?"
The router does not resync at all (as far as I can tell). The top part of "adslctl info --stats" is here:
# adslctl info --stats
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1001 Kbps, Downstream rate = 2269 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 19.8 6.2
Attn(dB): 45.0 22.1
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 12.7
Max(Kbps): 7876 1008
Rate (Kbps): 2269 1001
The SNRM is very high, which suggests that your line is really suffering from bursts of noise (causing the low sync), but then this noise is disappearing, meaning a higher SNRM at this low sync. Unfortunately, ADSL2+ does seem to be more susceptible to noise as it uses double the number of frequencies, and there's not an awful lot I can suggest. :(
I have to agree with Sebby, Chris. That NM shouldn't go higher than 15db on the BT system, so you must be re-syncing, even if you don't see it happen, when there's a burst of noise. That's driven up the target NM and down the sync speed and profile. The noise is then abating and you get the higher figure.
Have a word with support. They can select different stability levels for a line, they may be able to increase the stability and, in the longer term, get you a better throughput, but, atm, the BT test says your line is performing to spec.
Well, I'm still connected however I've just got this "speed".
[attachment deleted by admin]
Not good. Can you let support know, Noreen, Brian was asking what sort of speeds you were getting today.
How did the clinic go?
I've sent it to Simon, Rik.
"Arm" report in Natters. ;D
Just caught up. :thumb:
Im back to the same old, speed dropping like a stone cant get a bt test, but speedtest.net and speed.io have me just pushing 3mb and teh router is seemingly re-syncing every 15 minutes or so
well herer it is, what a pile of dog poo
6390 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 760 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 5500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1518 kbps
I am so fed up with BT's cowboy engineers, and struggling to get a decent connection, 4 weeks of complete nonsense. and lies.
Just managed to get a BT Line test to work without getting an error, the first time in a couple of days:
ER, I don't think their deadline of 6pm Monday evening worked or was even anticipated.
Your DSL connection rate:
3819 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),
850 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 3000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 677 kbps
ADSL2+, what a load of cr*p, I was getting a rock solid throughput of 2400kbps before switching.
So BT screw up again.
It's getting to a point where I might leave Idnet (not through their fault, and not by choice, they've been the best company to provide broadband in the last 10 years), and try cable broadband, at least it'll be faster.
BT need a good kick up their ****.
Not very happy with ADSL2+
Used to get a sync of 8128 with max, now sync at 24382, however my actual throughput is never really that high. I'm lucky if I get 10 meg. :(
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 24382 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1139 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 21000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6253 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.
Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.
Blimey! You're on maximum profile.
You must be located up Ian Livingston's inside trouser leg. ;)
Quote from: onlynik on Aug 17, 2009, 21:18:39
Not very happy with ADSL2+
Used to get a sync of 8128 with max, now sync at 24382, however my actual throughput is never really that high. I'm lucky if I get 10 meg. :(
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 24382 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1139 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 21000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6253 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.
Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.
10x what I'm getting!!
Quote from: bridgej on Aug 17, 2009, 21:25:05
10x what I'm getting!!
I'm also about 100 metres from the exchange, I can see it from my lounge window. I'd expect to get somewhere near 20 meg rather than 3-6 which I normally get. With max I always got 8.
Hi Nik, :welc: :karma:
Can only suggest you send the results to IDNet and see what they can do, but I have to be honest, there's a lot of people much worse off than yourself, so you may have to join the back of the queue. :)
:welc: :karma:
Quote from: onlynik on Aug 17, 2009, 21:30:33
I'm also about 100 metres from the exchange, I can see it from my lounge window. I'd expect to get somewhere near 20 meg rather than 3-6 which I normally get. With max I always got 8.
Hi and welcome to the forum. :welc: :karma:
Have you let IDNet know of your problem. There's a handful, last time I had the count it was 16 from 500+ WBC conversions, that are having this throughput issue despite good profiles. BT have, they say, identified the problem and the work due to be completed yesterday was meant to fix it. If you haven't let support know, do so, enclosing a coupled of BT test results, and they will chase it up with BT for you.
I got this test result this morning and am STILL connected. I've forwarded the result to James. If it's anything like previous days the speed slows as the evening approaches.
[attachment deleted by admin]
If that happens, Noreen, power off the router for five minutes, then try again. WBC re-builds the entire circuit when you do, and that should ensure the fix is then in place.
That's what James said, Rik. ;D I'll see what happens.
Just tried a BT speed test to see if things had got better over night but no luck yet:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 6652 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 444 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 5500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2018 kbps
Keeping my fingers crossed BT can fix all of us ADSL2+ folk with slow speeds! :)
Quote from: Noreen on Aug 18, 2009, 10:53:04
That's what James said, Rik. ;D I'll see what happens.
Guess who told me. ;)
Quote from: philmatthews on Aug 18, 2009, 10:59:12
Just tried a BT speed test to see if things had got better over night but no luck yet:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 6652 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 444 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 5500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2018 kbps
Keeping my fingers crossed BT can fix all of us ADSL2+ folk with slow speeds! :)
Have you tried the five minute power off, Phil?
Quote from: Rik on Aug 18, 2009, 11:07:55
Guess who told me. ;)
And there was me thinking that you were clever. ;D
No chance. ;D
Quote from: Noreen on Aug 18, 2009, 11:18:32
And there was me thinking that you were clever. ;D
He's clever like that. ;D
Smoke and mirrors, Bob. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Aug 18, 2009, 08:38:01
Hi and welcome to the forum. :welc: :karma:
Have you let IDNet know of your problem. There's a handful, last time I had the count it was 16 from 500+ WBC conversions, that are having this throughput issue despite good profiles. BT have, they say, identified the problem and the work due to be completed yesterday was meant to fix it. If you haven't let support know, do so, enclosing a coupled of BT test results, and they will chase it up with BT for you.
Yeah, I've let them know, I emailed them on Sunday with my poor results and then again last night, with the slightly improved, yet still slow speeds. I'll run another test once I'm home.
I've also rebooted the router to see it that would help. I hasn't yet.
Absolutely, Rik. I'm all for it. One or two flash bangs for good measure. ;)
BTW just did a BT speed test for Simon.
Then power rebooted and promptly got a third the download speed, which was nothing to shout about anyway.
Interestingly, since yesterday slow throughput has become evident throughout the day not just late afternoon and evening.
I think I preferred it pre-upgrade! ;D
Quote from: Rik on Aug 18, 2009, 11:08:18
Have you tried the five minute power off, Phil?
Yep, left it off for about 20 minutes this morning before restarting it but no joy.
Phil
BT seem to have done it again. Though I did see one success story over on ThinkBroadband this morning. Perhaps they didn't complete the work yesterday? :dunno:
Smoke and mirrors, Rik. Smoke and mirrors. ;D
More smoke than mirrors I fear. :(
I'm so slow that I've stopped smoking. ;)
Perhaps someone could create a mirror that ran to specification. :whistle:
I did see last night whilst researching this that my exchange is LLU enabled !
Quote from: Noreen on Aug 18, 2009, 10:53:04
That's what James said, Rik. ;D I'll see what happens.
Are you suggesting that Rik might be James? :eyebrow: ;D
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 18, 2009, 12:02:24
I did see last night whilst researching this that my exchange is LLU enabled !
With what? I've got the awful Talk Talk. Oversubscribed as well! ;)
;D Im looking at travel brochures now ;D
:rofl: :pmsl:
Quote from: bobleslie on Aug 18, 2009, 12:01:48
Perhaps someone could create a mirror that ran to specification. :whistle:
You can use my shaving mirror, Bob, I never do. ;D
:thnks:
In return you can borrow my hedge clippers. ;D
;D
Mind if I pass on that kind offer, Bob?
;D If I were ten years younger Bob :D
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 18, 2009, 12:57:37
;D If I were ten years younger Bob :D
Is that a chat up line? :eek4:
I said ten years Gary.... ;D
Quote from: onlynik on Aug 18, 2009, 11:42:24
Yeah, I've let them know, I emailed them on Sunday with my poor results and then again last night, with the slightly improved, yet still slow speeds. I'll run another test once I'm home.
I've also rebooted the router to see it that would help. I hasn't yet.
Still disappointingly slow
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 24382 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1127 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 21000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 8358 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
Sent another email to IDnet, with any luck I get a response tomorrow.
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 5411 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 962 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 4500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 169 kbps
Can I borrow a cuppa of bandwith ;)
You make me feel well endowed, David. :whistle:
:hehe: I couldn't possibly comment :whistle:
frankly BT are now taking the mickey. seems the work they promised did little or nothing other than raise ip profiles.
personally I suspect BT just dont have the bandwidth available for WBC. soon we'll all be traffic shaped (if not already).
I have run out of options really they are slaughtering the good names and reputations of some isps imho and causing untold misery for ordinary folk who just want a decent connection.
Its been an education for me but one I could have done without and a lot of money being effectively wasted..not BTs though :shake:
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 18, 2009, 18:35:12
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 5411 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 962 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 4500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 169 kbps
Can I borrow a cuppa of bandwith ;)
Sure, pm me your address and I'll mail you some ;)
:thnks: :hehe:
:karma: :welc: Just noticed ;D
Actually, it looks like Nik's got it all. Perhaps that's why everyone else is struggling! ;D
Thought I'd post an update - sorry my earlier post about my connection was in the wrong thread in Re: Just upgraded to ADSL2 but can't connect (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=15581.msg366151#msg366151) (@ #60) - it should have been in this one.
Today started well:
18/08/09 6.33
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 15320 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 852 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 13000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 12489 kbps
Throughput at close to 96% of the profile, I didn't even know this was possible.
Around midday another BT test recorded 9308 kbps
Around 2.00 p.m. the router had to be powered down as an electrician working on these flats had to turn off the power for ten minutes, I then ran a TBB test out of interest, at 14:14 this came in at 1797.26 Kbps
This evening another BT test at around 9.00 p.m.
Your DSL connection rate: 15320 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 832 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 13000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 577 kbps
and this one: (http://www.speedtest.net/result/543030699.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
So no change here, still all over the place.
:karma: :welc: Sarah boats and same spring to mind :eyebrow:
It was bloody good first thing in the morning, though, Sarah! :)
Mmm ... it beat all records for highs and lows today :stars:
Luckily the connection is useable, just very odd.
It's not really acceptable though, and not what IDNet would want for you, so I would definitely raise it with them. :)
It is known to Simon, it was on BT's list to investigate, he requested the BT test results today.
I posted here simply as an update to my earlier post :)
OK, no worries. :)
Speed went down to 4506kbps yesterday evening but back up to 11122kbps this morning. James says that they are still tweaking my connection. BTW I've had no disconnections. ;D
:fingers:
I think they need a larger hammer. ;)
Well, I think that they are getting there as far as I'm concerned. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Aug 19, 2009, 10:54:25
I think they need a larger hammer. ;)
Or a larger BT guy - fully dimensioned (http://www.irvinleisure.co.uk/rides.php?ride=High-Striker&ref=&Type=2) :)
:lol: :karmic:
I lent James my sledgehammer. ;)
Just got a result of 11.1Mbps on TBB (got error message on the BT site) which compares well with yesterday's result of 4506kbps from BT. So the tweaking appears to be working. Well done IDNet! :thumb:
Great news, Noreen. :thumb:
:thumb: Well done Noreen great news
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 19, 2009, 17:52:01
:thumb: Well done Noreen great news
Well, actually I didn't do anything, David. ;D
You did its called keeping everything crossed and praying ;D
Good result Noreen.
Hopefully the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter for those affected with ADLS2+ issues
Not in MK and Hitchin it isn't. ;D
They always Buck the trend Rik you know that surely ;)
Have you no Hert? ;D
The sun shines on the righteous. :angel:
That's probably what caused the node to go into metldown. ;D
QuoteHave you no Hert
I love your puns I always Clapham ;D
:grn: almost forgot
Quote from: Noreen on Aug 19, 2009, 18:16:52
The sun shines on the righteous. :angel:
It missed me Noreen :whistle:
:grn: right back at you. ;D
:ithank: :hehe:
Sounds like claptrap to me
:grn:
Just got this from the Namesco tester:
Date of Speed Test: 2009-08-19 19:35:24
Download Speed: 12529 kbps (1566.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 558 kbps (69.8 KB/sec transfer rate)
(Ignore the upload because there's a bug on the tester).
Just after 5pm tonight my pings also dropped from 100+ to around 16ms so, hopefully, things are getting better. :fingers:
Quote from: Glenn on Aug 19, 2009, 18:38:17
Sounds like claptrap to me
I knew he was there I just sensed it :eek4: :hehe: :groan:
Good news, Drummer. No wonder my connection's fallen over, all the rest of you have been given the bits. ;D
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Aug 19, 2009, 18:44:28
I knew he was there I just sensed it :eek4: :hehe: :groan:
:hiding: I'm Ok now, you can't see me
Quote from: Simon on Aug 18, 2009, 22:34:49
Actually, it looks like Nik's got it all. Perhaps that's why everyone else is struggling! ;D
I'll gladly pass the bandwidth about. Only thing is you'll have to come and get it from Aberdeen :)
Managed to get up to 9 meg earlier this evening when downloading Windows 7, however after about 1.5 gig of downloading dropped back to about 4 meg. Must just be network congestion, I don't think Microsoft has run out of bandwidth.
It does sound like congestion, doesn't it? :-\
It does. :shake:
Quote from: onlynik on Aug 19, 2009, 22:36:14
I'll gladly pass the bandwidth about. Only thing is you'll have to come and get it from Aberdeen :)
No problem, I can pick up some meat while I'm there too. ;D
Tried to do a BT test this morning, it got to 100% completion on the actual test and then gave me the Error message. :mad:
So it's not going to let you back for three hours either. :(
:update:
Having moved back to my Max connection due to the problems with the MK WBC node, I have now revised my opinion of WBC.
Overall, I've gained 0.5Mb in speed, on a good spell that can rise to 1Mb. Latency is higher, by ~4ms, which is slightly odd, and stability is not as good - the router has been re-syncing every 3 days on average, compared to every 30-40 days with Max. (That figure is based on a different line, though as this one was converted to WBC quite soon after installation.)
In general, WBC 'feels' faster than Max for me, even when actual speeds, as measured by the BT tester, are not too dissimilar.
On balance, therefore, once the teething problems have been fixed, I'd say it was worth upgrading to WBC for people with quite long lines, 57db in my case. I suspect, though, that the longest lines, eg 63db, are likely to become very unstable with WBC, but we need a volunteer to test that theory.
Perversely though ADSL2+ has a longer reach that ADSL Max. So, customers who currently cannot receive any service at all may get some, albeit slow, service from 2+.
S
Some people have seen average latency drop slightly when their ISP transitioned 20CN users to IPStream Connect.
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Aug 20, 2009, 11:48:32
Perversely though ADSL2+ has a longer reach that ADSL Max. So, customers who currently cannot receive any service at all may get some, albeit slow, service from 2+.
Any ideas on the likely speeds for 63db+ lines, Simon, or is that a "how long's a piece of string" question?
Quote from: dujas on Aug 20, 2009, 11:54:43
Some people have seen average latency drop slightly when their ISP transitioned 20CN users to IPStream Connect.
I think most have. I suspect my WBC connection has a greater interleaving depth than the Max one.
It's very difficult to say because the quality of the wiring is especially important at very long distances but I have seen graphs that indicate a signal can reach up to 84dB attenuation = roughly 6KM.
S
That's quite something, Simon, thanks. :)
There's a graph on this Australian ISP's page: Internode :: Residential :: Broadband :: ADSL :: Extreme (http://www.internode.on.net/residential/broadband/adsl/extreme/) which corresponds to Simon's 6KM. (scroll down to "How fast can it be?") - no idea if the Australian ADSL2+ is the same as ours :) but looks like a similar 'piece of string'. 57db to 67db lines gain almost nothing on this one, then above this they do.
I'm on a 57db line and expected to gain nothing, but actually picked up 500k at minimum, so there's hope for all of us. :)
Even me? :eek4: :laugh:
Of course! ;D
The graph Sarah led us to is exactly right for me. It's the first time I've seen something accurate on the subject. The UK checkers online say I can get 3.5mb which is way, way wrong. I wonder why they are so badly out.
Born optimists? ;)
I've now been connected for over 167 hours and am still getting a good speed. ;D
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About 4x what I get, Noreen, I could do with that right now as I'm downloading a new set of maps for my TomTom and it's taking an hour. :'(
Think how long it would've taken on dial-up!
I did! :eek4:
Sorry , should have posted in the help needed thread. Has been somewhat of a disaster up to now , prior to upgrade was getting throughput of 6 Mb/s consistently , now down to < 1Mb/s on adsl2+.
Not really much use having the extra bandwidth allowance with such cr*ppy speeds! :dunno:
Have you run a series of BT tests and let support have the results. At last count, 12 of the 500+ migratees were having this problem, which BT claim to have identified and were busy curing.
Quote from: Rik on Aug 25, 2009, 08:33:21
Have you run a series of BT tests and let support have the results. At last count, 12 of the 500+ migratees were having this problem, which BT claim to have identified and were busy curing.
I think BT may have fixed my issue. Still poor at night 3 or 4 meg, but in the morning I'm downloading at 20 meg. Sadly the BT speed test retuned an error during testing, but I tested elsewhere.
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/547915173.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
I also had a BT test failure this morning, the first I can remember in a long time. Weird.
Probably been blacklisted. ;D
My 'solution' has been postponed for another week. ::) :bawl:
Mine too, Bob. One I didn't have until yesterday. I think BT are robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Sorry to hear that. :shake:
Still what can we expect testing a beta service? >:D
;D
It was actually worse with Max, but we've all forgotten it now.
I haven't. :rant2:
I blamed Zen for poor performance which was probably due to initial Max problems.
That's why I came here. Determined not to make the same mistake this time. ;)
Same here, Bob. We need to weather what is clearly a BT storm...
Still having said all that, Rik, here I am at gone 1.00 a.m. trying to coax some speed out of this piece of string and it's not working.
How can anyone call 1400 kbps throughout the day WBC? It's not even ADSL. It's some kind of crapped out geriatric 2Mb service. This malarky has been going on for weeks and weeks with a continuous decline in performance .
What with the recent 5 days down as well, and still no explanation, it is finally time to jump ship I'm afraid. I've had enough.
Quote from: bobleslie on Aug 27, 2009, 01:31:26
Still having said all that, Rik, here I am at gone 1.00 a.m. trying to coax some speed out of this piece of string and it's not working.
How can anyone call 1400 kbps throughout the day WBC? It's not even ADSL. It's some kind of crapped out geriatric 2Mb service. This malarky has been going on for weeks and weeks with a continuous decline in performance .
What with the recent 5 days down as well, and still no explanation, it is finally time to jump ship I'm afraid. I've had enough.
Are you heading to LLU then, Bob? Its a shame they could not sort your issue out. :(
Quote from: Rik on Aug 25, 2009, 13:01:56
Same here, Bob. We need to weather what is clearly a BT storm...
Problem with being at the cutting edge of technology is it's the user who gets covered in blood :)
Quote from: Tacitus on Aug 27, 2009, 08:28:51
Problem with being at the cutting edge of technology is it's the user who gets covered in blood :)
Very true, I prefer to be at the blunter edge these days
Quote from: bobleslie on Aug 27, 2009, 01:31:26
What with the recent 5 days down as well, and still no explanation, it is finally time to jump ship I'm afraid. I've had enough.
Sorry to hear that, Bob, but I do understand. My advice would be to go LLU, preferably Be. As we knew from IDNet and as David has found out with AAISP, you can't physically revert from WBC to Max, BT simply profile WBC to 'look' like Max. Whatever you do, don't be a stranger here - you don't have to be a customer to be a Netter. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Aug 27, 2009, 09:14:47
Sorry to hear that, Bob, but I do understand. My advice would be to go LLU, preferably Be. As we knew from IDNet and as David has found out with AAISP, you can't physically revert from WBC to Max, BT simply profile WBC to 'look' like Max. Whatever you do, don't be a stranger here - you don't have to be a customer to be a Netter. ;D
WEll pointed out, Rik people leaving due t WBC should be thinking of LLU as another BT ISP will give the same results. I hope all goes well Bob and let us know how you get on :thumb:
As one who stuck with IDNet through much recent trouble I was pleased to get this result this morning. ;D
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Now I know where my bandwidth went. ;)
I am not sure if our exchange will ever be updated to WBC :'( we have a date for 21CN which is Q1 2011 but no WBC date at all, we dont even get a 3G signal here on any of the networks
Be grateful. :)
Quote from: Rik on Aug 27, 2009, 10:28:02
Be grateful. :)
Now yes but down the line maybe not as streaming media online becomes more the in thing, Rik and wha state will the Dslams end up in here with BT not being bothered to really worry about them anymore :(
There will come a point where economic imperatives force BT to bring WBC to you. By then, it will be mature and reliable.
Quote from: Gary on Aug 27, 2009, 10:30:22wha state will the Dslams end up in here with BT not being bothered to really worry about them anymore :(
Look on the bright side- they'll have a lot of spares :P
;D
Quote from: Bill on Aug 27, 2009, 11:47:24
Look on the bright side- they'll have a lot of spares :P
But I bet they sell them :evil:
Quote from: Rik on Aug 27, 2009, 09:14:47
As we knew from IDNet and as David has found out with AAISP, you can't physically revert from WBC to Max, BT simply profile WBC to 'look' like Max.
I know that, but the last time I looked (20/08/2009) David had these figures:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 5411 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 962 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 4500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4208 kbps
and seemed quite pleased with himself. ;D
Quote from: bobleslie on Aug 27, 2009, 12:50:18
and seemed quite pleased with himself. ;D
That's because he'd been on the red smarties again. ;D
Note. I feel I've been talking out of turn, so have removed the following few posts. Apologies to David. :sry: Mea culpa. :blush:
Quote from: Rik on Aug 25, 2009, 13:01:56
Same here, Bob. We need to weather what is clearly a BT storm...
But not a thunderstorm!
Guaranteed to do your connection in. :bawl:
Not to mention half your hardware if you're really unlucky.
Quote from: Rik on Aug 25, 2009, 13:01:56
Same here, Bob. We need to weather what is clearly a BT storm...
I'd liken them more to a cold and damp Monday morning than a storm :whistle:
:music: Monday, Monday :music: ;)
Quote from: Gary on Aug 27, 2009, 10:27:28
I am not sure if our exchange will ever be updated to WBC :'( we have a date for 21CN which is Q1 2011 but no WBC date at all, we dont even get a 3G signal here on any of the networks
You should be getting a Three/T-Mobile signal in the next year or so Gary, they are trying to give 98% coverage of the UK.
For the last three Fridays evenings, I've been getting much higher download speeds than I would nornally get throughout the rest of the week. This time it's gone through the roof:
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/550846349.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
:) :) :)
Perhaps it's because most people are down the pub? It normally calms down later. Still, things seem to be improving for me.
I saw a BT Openreach van parked in my road the other day. Hmm...
Hopefully it's because BT are getting their act together. :)
He was probably just having his lunch. ;)
Let's hope he takes his van and lunch on tour around the UK ;D
Milton Keynes will be quite far enough. ;D
I'm having a love/hate relationship with WBC. I've been running with a throughput ~2/3rds of my profile for 8 days now, so it's actually slower than my Max connection, both up and down stream. I don't blame IDNet, clearly BT have dropped the ball with WBC, but I'm afraid that puts me back in the "If I were you I'd wait a while before 'upgrading'" camp.
When I first migrated to WBC in was all hunky dory for about a week then, like many others, my throughput dropped to sub-Max speeds and pings were constantly above 150ms. Following the forum request from IDNet, I sent in BT speed tests over several days.
Didn't hear anything for a couple of weeks until I received an email from Miriam telling me I hadn't been forgotten and the investigation was still ongoing. Just over a week ago Simon emailed to let me know that BT had finally accepted there was a problem which should be fixed over the weekend.
Rebooted the router last Monday as instructed and it's been fine ever since. Throughput now averages 13000kbps (with the occasional dip to Max speeds) and pings are now 21ms.
When I migrated to Max in its infancy, my ISP was Tiswas and that was frustration beyond belief, which is why I ended up getting my MAC and moving here. Migrating to WBC with IDNet has, on the other hand, been little more than a minor irritant. I'm glad I stuck it out and I honestly don't know what I'd advise about migrating to WBC. Probably something along the lines of "It depends on what ISP you're with."
Thanks, Drummer. Monday was when my problems started - you must have got my speed. ;)
I wonder what happened after that first week because it was the same for me. Had about 14Mbps then it dropped to 1 - 2Mbps with constant disconnections. Support worked on BT and I now get around 12Mbps with only the occasional disconnection and I'm happy with that. ;D
My gut feeling, Noreen, is that BT hadn't got the network to support the number of connections they sold, and they've been juggling and playing catchup since.
Hi guys. How are things with the WBC problems in general? Have things been improving in recent months? It's been 10 weeks since I upgraded to ADSL2+ and my connection went down to around 2000 kbps (or under) and it has never gone above this speed in this time.
IDNet have been on the case for the last couple of months chasing BT up for me but they've not been able to tell me if (or when) things will improve.
Keeping my fingers crossed things pickup but, if they don't, is the change to ADSL2+ reversible? My old connection was around 45000 - 5000 kbps which I think I'd take right now!
Hi Phil I think the last part of your question I can answer is I don't think it is reversible but not 100% certainly not without a charge with some isps but don't quote me on it
No, it seems it's not reversible. As I understand it, if you ask to go back to Max, BT will just cap your speed, to make it look like a Max connection, but any problems you have with WBC will still remain. :(
Quote from: Rik on Aug 29, 2009, 15:40:07
Milton Keynes will be quite far enough. ;D
Not quite the end of the world....but I hear you can see it from there :P