I joined Idnet a couple of weeks ago and was promptly seeing ADSL2+ speeds of around 12Mb/s - a doubling over my previous ISP!
But there has been a severe drop to around 4.77Mb/s in the last couple of days.
Could anyone glean anything from the router stats below?
I have a Belkin N1 and I'm about 1km from my exchange. Noise testing the line seems fine. (Haven't yet checked my master socket/ring wire as speeds had been great...)
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1117 Kbps, Downstream rate = 9724 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 17.6 7.5
Attn(dB): 16.5 6.7
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 12.0
Max(Kbps): 20128 1148
Rate (Kbps): 9724 1117
G.dmt framing
K: 79(0) 26
R: 16 8
S: 1 8
D: 96 4
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 77 10
B: 78 25
M: 1 8
T: 3 6
R: 16 8
S: 0.2588 5.9178
L: 2936 292
D: 96 4
Counters
SF: 4668992 4425610
SFErr: 569 0
RS: 1162579094 3539237
RSCorr: 252097 0
RSUnCorr: 13116 0
HEC: 502 0
OCD: 30 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1725580825 1856653
Data Cells: 9942142 8358
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 10998 0
SES: 306 0
UAS: 958 0
AS: 75236
INP: 2.09 0.43
PER: 16.11 17.75
delay: 6.21 5.91
OR: 41.20 7.20
Bitswap: 60 27
Total time = 1 days 19 hours 49 min 27 sec
SF = 68935338
CRC = 42599
LOS = 30
LOF = 269
ES = 10998
Latest 1 day time = 19 hours 49 min 27 sec
SF = 4428914
CRC = 545
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 320
Latest 15 minutes time = 4 min 27 sec
SF = 16620
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55833
CRC = 4
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 3
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF = 5319289
CRC = 9021
LOS = 24
LOF = 215
ES = 617
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55834
CRC = 6
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 6
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55896
CRC = 6
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 4
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55834
CRC = 5
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 4
Showtime Drop Reason: 8000
Last Retrain Reason: 8000
Hi Ron
Welcome to the forum. :welc: :karma: It looks to me as if your target noise margin has been raised from 6db to 15db, which will be down to instability or a high error count on the line.
QuoteSNR (dB): 17.6 7.5
Attn(dB): 16.5 6.7
The 24 hour stats, if I'm reading them correctly, suggest instability:
QuotePrevious 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF = 5319289
CRC = 9021
LOS = 24 <<<<<<<<<<<<
LOF = 215 <<<<<<<<<<<
ES = 617
Do you have an NTE5 master socket, the kind where the bottom part of the faceplate can be removed? If so, could you try the router in the test socket which is revealed for 24 hours or so?
Hi Rik
Many thanks for your quick response.
Is there any action I can take re: instability / high error count?
I don't have the master socket you mention - it's a non-NTE5. Plain square white plastic.
RG
Have a word with support, Ron, they can test the line and see error counts etc. In the absence of an NTE5, is there anything in the house which has change electrically or telephonically? Have you added any new devices to the phone line, eg Sky box? What is connected, do you have any hard-wired extensions or any 'flying lead' extensions? Do you have an AM battery powered radio? If so, de-tune it so you just have white noise, then follow the phone line to the router and listen for any noise increase.
I'll get straight onto them Rik. No, nothing has changed electrically or telephonically since getting great speeds 14 days ago! Is it still worth having a look at the ringer wire d'you think?
Quote from: Rik on Jul 10, 2009, 10:51:12
Have a word with support, Ron, they can test the line and see error counts etc. In the absence of an NTE5, is there anything in the house which has change electrically or telephonically? Have you added any new devices to the phone line, eg Sky box? What is connected, do you have any hard-wired extensions or any 'flying lead' extensions? Do you have an AM battery powered radio? If so, de-tune it so you just have white noise, then follow the phone line to the router and listen for any noise increase.
It's always worth getting rid of the ring wire, Ron. :thumb:
Shall check all sockets this evening ... and check-in with IDnet support. Thanks for your help.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 10, 2009, 10:55:48
It's always worth getting rid of the ring wire, Ron. :thumb:
My pleasure. :) Run a BT speed test before you do, Ron, as I think your profile is low.
:welc: :karma:
Hope you get sorted soon
Rik et al. Possible ADSL2+ info
I have been having a browse on TBB forum here (http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/aaisp/3634121-a-couple-of-questions-about-adsl2.html?fpart=all) and here (http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/entanet/3636977-target-snr-setting-issue.html?fpart=2#Post3637448) the first thread implies that BT can enforce a "branded profile" on a line where they see high errors and instability,the result being that without ISP/BT action the profile/sync will never recover above a certain ceiling. The second thread in one post describes how aggressively the DSLAM reacts to noise on a line depending on a sensitivity setting previously applied to your line. Not sure which way round it is but on one setting any noise will cause an abrupt and dramatic increase in the noise margin whereas on the another the noise maybe tolerated or the increase less dramatic.
Can't add to the above, but :welc: Ron, and :karma:
Thanks, Steve. There does seem to be more sensitivity with ADSL2+ and, just as in the early days of Max, we're all going to be learning as we go.
:welc: Ron and :karma:
Certainly I am not sure at present if it was available for me I'd want it ,it seems a bit of a leap into the unknown.I guess the decision for many of us eventually will be forced on economic grounds due to difference in costs between the two.
All I can go on is my own experience, Steve. Starting from a 1M fixed-rate product, I settled at 2.5M on Max, but now have 3.5M on WBC, with higher upload speeds. Stability has been pretty good from day 1.
OK... disconnected orange ringer wire as advised and there was an immediate jump in SNR reading from 17.6 before disconnect to 28.8 after (see stats below) ...
what does this indicate?
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1141 Kbps, Downstream rate = 6653 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 28.8 8.5
Attn(dB): 16.0 6.6
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 12.1
Max(Kbps): 22992 1140
Rate (Kbps): 6653 1141
G.dmt framing
K: 63(0) 164
R: 16 0
S: 1 1
D: 96 1
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 65 10
B: 62 163
M: 1 1
T: 3 1
R: 16 0
S: 0.3013 4.5714
L: 2097 287
D: 96 1
Counters
SF: 6686 5957
SFErr: 0 0
RS: 1424274 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1682097 13175
Data Cells: 92 1
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 11007 0
SES: 310 0
UAS: 1093 0
AS: 107
INP: 2.92 0.00
PER: 16.04 18.28
delay: 7.23 1.14
OR: 35.39 7.00
Bitswap: 0 0
Total time = 1 days 1 hours 7 min 48 sec
SF = 70114452
CRC = 44366
LOS = 34
LOF = 304
ES = 11007
Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 7 min 48 sec
SF = 245362
CRC = 1315
LOS = 3
LOF = 26
ES = 4
Latest 15 minutes time = 7 min 48 sec
SF = 26498
CRC = 410
LOS = 1
LOF = 8
ES = 1
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56060
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 1
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF = 5362666
CRC = 997
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES = 325
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 50684
CRC = 904
LOS = 2
LOF = 18
ES = 2
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56060
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 56060
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 0
Showtime Drop Reason: 8000
Last Retrain Reason: 8000
:welc: :karma:
Now reboot the router and then re-post your stats. :)
Spoke to James at support and gave him all the pre and post ringer disconnect stats - he's asked me not to touch the router for a while but to let IDNet talk to BT about 'unbanding' me ... apparently I've had five disconnects today alone!!!
Quote from: Sebby on Jul 10, 2009, 15:36:02
:welc: :karma:
Now reboot the router and then re-post your stats. :)
Hmm, okay. I'd have thought your problems are now fixed since removing the ring wire. The disconnects are caused by noise in general - removing the ring wire has had a positive effect on your SNRM. If you re-sync now, your SNRM will go back down to 15dB (which I suspect is your current target) and you should be sync'ing higher, as if by magic. :)
I agree with Seb.
I think its as I mentioned earlier from the TBB posts that the ADSL2+ connection has been "banded" by BT so no advantage can be gained from the increased margin until its unbanded by BT. If I recall Zappa was in a similar state with low sync and very high downstream margin. You would hope to be successful here surely as a source of noise has been eliminated.
Here's hoping, Steve.
Rik & Sebby - I'll abide by James' instructions for now and not reset the router until word comes back from BT re: the 'banding' issue. So, probably no news until early next week.
Thanks for everyone's support and advice. This really is an exceptional community.
RonG
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 10, 2009, 19:24:22
I think its as I mentioned earlier from the TBB posts that the ADSL2+ connection has been "banded" by BT so no advantage can be gained from the increased margin until its unbanded by BT. If I recall Zappa was in a similar state with low sync and very high downstream margin. You would hope to be successful here surely as a source of noise has been eliminated.
Quote from: stevethegas on Jul 10, 2009, 19:24:22
I think its as I mentioned earlier from the TBB posts that the ADSL2+ connection has been "banded" by BT so no advantage can be gained from the increased margin until its unbanded by BT. If I recall Zappa was in a similar state with low sync and very high downstream margin. You would hope to be successful here surely as a source of noise has been eliminated.
I've pretty much given up on getting a resolution to my connection problems. Almost everyday a new oddity occurs. I'm not really inclined to pursue it anymore because a) as of this afternoon I can by agreement share my next door neighbour's connection in the short term and b) I hope to be able to connect to fibre in a month or two. I was going to switch back to max but I no longer believe that will resolve the issue.
Fibre? Do tell us more, Zap. :)
Quote from: RonGodwin on Jul 10, 2009, 20:20:18
This really is an exceptional community.
Thanks, Ron, we try hard to make it a good place to be. :)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 11, 2009, 10:23:31
Fibre? Do tell us more, Zap. :)
My exchange has had FTTC for a while Rik, it was one of two reasons why I moved to this area. My neighbour is about to trial it and according to the Openreach engineers I've spoken with it should become generally available in this area sooner rather than later as Openreach management are eager to speed up deployment. I'm also fairly sure that the original FTTC installations that were announced have now been rolled out to ISPs and I'm assuming if they are successful then the rest, which I think total around 70 exchanges, will be deployed.
I was told next year by a BT engineer recently, though I can't see my exchange listed anywhere. At 213m to the cabinet, I quite fancy the idea. :)
Apologies as this is going to be big but FTTC original 29 exchanges
Chelmsford - Essex
Watford - Hertfordshire
Hemel Hempstead - Hertfordshire
Leagrave - Bedfordshire
Luton - Bedfordshire
Canonbury - London
Chingford - London
Edmonton - London
Enfield - London
Highams Park - London
Tottenham - London
Thamesmead - London
Woolwich - London
Bury - Greater Manchester
Didsbury - Greater Manchester
Failsworth - Greater Manchester
Heaton Moor - Greater Manchester
Oldham - Greater Manchester
Rusholme - Greater Manchester
Belfast Balmoral - Belfast
Dean - Edinburgh
Glasgow Halfway - Glasgow
Glasgow Western - Glasgow Scotland
Cardiff - Cardiff
Taffs Well - Rhondda Cynon Taf
Halifax - West Yorkshire
Pudsey - West Yorkshire
Calder Valley - West Yorkshire
A further 69 have been added to the list as things are ahead of schedule
BERKHAMSTED East of England
BILLERICAY East of England
BRENTWOOD East of England
ELSTREE East of England
HAINAULT East of England
HODDESDON East of England
LEA VALLEY East of England
LOUGHTON East of England
STANFORD-LE-HOPE East of England
WALTHAM CROSS East of England
WOODFORD East of England
GLOSSOP East Midlands
HINCKLEY East Midlands
BARKING London
BARNET London
ELTHAM London
GREENWICH London
HORNCHURCH London
INGREBOURNE London
NEW SOUTHGATE London
PONDERS END London
SIDCUP London
SLADE GREEN London
STAMFORD HILL London
CHESTER-LE-STREET North East
DURHAM North East
EAST HERRINGTON North East
HETTON-LE-HOLE North East
ALTRINCHAM North West
ASHTON-UNDER-LYNE North West
CHEETHAM North West
CHORLTON North West
DENTON North West
HYDE North West
MANCHESTER EAST North West
MOSS SIDE North West
PRESTWICH North West
STALYBRIDGE North West
SWINTON, GREATER MANCHESTER North West
URMSTON North West
WALKDEN North West
WILMSLOW North West
LISBURN Northern Ireland
EDINBURGH CORSTORPHINE Scotland
EDINBURGH CRAIGLOCKHART Scotland
GLASGOW BRIDGETON Scotland
GLASGOW GIFFNOCK Scotland
BASINGSTOKE South East
DARTFORD South East
BRISTOL NORTH South West
BRISTOL WEST South West
DOWNEND South West
BARRY Wales
CAERPHILLY Wales
PENARTH Wales
BIRMINGHAM, NORTHERN West Midlands
FALLINGS PARK West Midlands
GREAT BARR West Midlands
LEAMORE West Midlands
NUNEATON West Midlands
TETTENHALL West Midlands
WEDNESBURY West Midlands
WALSALL West Midlands
ARMLEY Yorkshire
CASTLEFORD Yorkshire
HEADINGLEY Yorkshire
LOW MOOR Yorkshire
PONTEFRACT Yorkshire
SHIPLEY Yorkshire
I still don't see my exchange. :'(
I'm on it (Barnet). :yes:
Shaddup! ;D
Idnet informed me this morning that BT have now 'unbanded' me & that it was thus OK to reboot my router. And, of course, I've now snipped my orange ringer wire.
So ...stats now look very different. Are these figures healthier?
Speed however remains at 5MB - so no change there. Does the line go through another 10 day training period?
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1131 Kbps, Downstream rate = 19250 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 7.4 7.9
Attn(dB): 16.0 6.6
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 11.7
Max(Kbps): 23124 1132
Rate (Kbps): 19250 1131
G.dmt framing
K: 255(0) 35
R: 0 0
S: 1 1
D: 1 1
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 70 12
B: 254 34
M: 1 1
T: 2 4
R: 0 0
S: 0.4230 0.9824
L: 4822 285
D: 1 1
Counters
SF: 620779 587000
SFErr: 112 0
RS: 0 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0
HEC: 82 0
OCD: 11 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 453069014 2181013
Data Cells: 750010 6672
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 97 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 33 0
AS: 9980
INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 16.07 17.68
delay: 0.10 0.24
OR: 37.81 8.14
Bitswap: 17 0
Total time = 2 hours 47 min 6 sec
SF = 620779
CRC = 112
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 97
Latest 1 day time = 2 hours 47 min 6 sec
SF = 620779
CRC = 112
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 97
Latest 15 minutes time = 2 min 6 sec
SF = 7861
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 1
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55964
CRC = 11
LOS = 0
Quote from: Rik on Jul 11, 2009, 10:24:06
Thanks, Ron, we try hard to make it a good place to be. :)
They are a lot better, you just need your profile to catch up now. Be patient, let things settle and you should be seeing a throughout around 16M.
Does this now prove that BT have an additional mechanism of controlling sync rate on adsl2+ apart from solely by margin adjustment ,in this case the unbanding has allowed the sync rate to rise and the downstream margin to fall from 28 to 7.6
The margin falls with the speed increase, Steve, but this banding/unbanding does appear to be new and I'm trying to get more information.
It would be nice to know if this banding does exist.Previously with adsl max anyone on less than a full sync the maximum margin was I believe 15? I am guessing something can be placed on a line to prevent a resync gaining the appropriate increase to allow the stated margin to fall even to the previous maximum of 15, which I am assuming is still the case on adsl2+
I'm hoping for more information soon, Steve.
:thumb:
16M .... Yowza!!!!!
IDnet did seem to confirm that I had indeed been 'banded' - said they just had to get onto the 'backroom boys' at BT to fix it. From getting my email
reminding them this morning it took all of 10 mins!
Quote from: Rik on Jul 13, 2009, 15:21:41
They are a lot better, you just need your profile to catch up now. Be patient, let things settle and you should be seeing a throughout around 16M.
Th said backroom boy had been in India until today. ;)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 13, 2009, 16:15:13
Th said backroom boy had been in India until today. ;)
At least I know I was telling the truth on Friday ;D
Waiting to hear what the fudge is going on with my line at the moment, I am seeing big ES spikes of course with CRC errors to match but my connection is fine a stable 15DB Noise Margin but a paltry 3000kb sync rate where I was getting 3500 on ADSL1 :'(
Sounds like banding is in play. :(
Well, hopefully, IDNet won't let the bands play on.
Quote from: Simon on Jul 13, 2009, 17:23:11
Well, hopefully, IDNet won't let the bands play on.
:grn:
Strawberry blondes forever. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Jul 13, 2009, 17:24:25
Strawberry blondes forever. ;D
It just get worse :hehe:
;D
We try.
Some of us more than others. ;D
:P ;D
:wub:
After speaking to IDnet today it would appear they have a conference call on wednesday with BT,,, give em hell! :flamethrower:
We're all waiting on that call, James. :fingers:
Quote from: James_D on Jul 13, 2009, 19:03:48
After speaking to IDnet today it would appear they have a conference call on wednesday with BT,,, give em hell! :flamethrower:
Hell's too good for BT. :evil: