Folks
Have requested IDNET to up me to ADSL2+ which is now available at my exchange. The folks, as usual, very helpful but I'm still where I was before the upping and this has not to do with the training period, me-thinks.
Run just now the BT Speed Test checker and found this
>>>
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 3483 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 888 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2319 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
>>>
Simply cannot get why my IP profile is STILL at 2500Kbps. Looking at my modem stats...
DSL Noise margin = 14.9db down / 8.0db up
Attenuation = 41db down / 23.4db up
DSL Transmit Power = 0db down / 12.8db up
Working out 41 / 13.81db/km ~ 2.9 Km from the exchange, which I believe is roughly right.
At 41db I guess should be in the 8 Mbps region, yet that would not be easy (!) if I'm profiled at 2.5 Mbps..!
Views..? have sent an e-mail to IDNET support and no reply so far today (maybe James is looking into this...)
Ed
WBC uses higher frequencies than Max, so I wouldn't have expected a huge gain on your line (mine's much the same). What's killing your speed is the target noise margin, which seems to be set at 15db, and is taking about 2M off your sync speed. Do you have lots of extensions or devices, eg Sky boxes, connected to the line? Have you removed the ring wire if you do have extensions?
Quote from: Rik on Jul 09, 2009, 12:27:21
WBC uses higher frequencies than Max, so I wouldn't have expected a huge gain on your line (mine's much the same). What's killing your speed is the target noise margin, which seems to be set at 15db, and is taking about 2M off your sync speed. Do you have lots of extensions or devices, eg Sky boxes, connected to the line? Have you removed the ring wire if you do have extensions?
Just the Sky Box on 1 extension, and yes, the ring wire is off from the BT master socket (dunno on the others, can check now...)
Quote from: troesma on Jul 09, 2009, 12:31:28
Just the Sky Box on 1 extension, and yes, the ring wire is off from the BT master socket (dunno on the others, can check now...)
Just as a sideline, BEFORE the upgrade the noise margin reported by the router was 12.1db, solid. In addition, transmit power was 18.8db down whereas since the upgrade is 0db.
Remove the ring wire at all sockets if you can, it will help. If you're not on multi-room with Sky, unplug the box except when you want to order PPV etc. After that, it's down to trying to locate the source of the noise or instability which has pushed the NM so high. Give support a ring and ask them to test the line, particularly the error count.
The NM has probably been changed by instability, it looks like your line suffers from noise. Don't worry about power - routers and MSANs seem to be inventing new rules. ;)
I have to admit to not knowing about the technology in detail but it seems to me that though ADSL and particularly ADSL2+ is capable of much better speeds than what most people are experiencing it is constrained by an ancient infrastructure that was never designed for the purpose.
Although the technology is designed to provide broadband on the existing copper cables it's only ever going to reach its full potential under ideal conditions, i.e. short distances from the exchange and good wiring connections etc. We can do a limited number of things to optimise the wiring at home but ultimately we're dependent on BT's network much of which was only intended to provide low grade audio connections.
I think ADSL is merely a workaround to avoid the high cost of installing a new fit for purpose fibre network.
Together with the usual bottlenecks that comprise the internet it's no wonder it's often slow but then again it's a miracle it works at all.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 09, 2009, 12:38:40
Remove the ring wire at all sockets if you can, it will help. If you're not on multi-room with Sky, unplug the box except when you want to order PPV etc. After that, it's down to trying to locate the source of the noise or instability which has pushed the NM so high. Give support a ring and ask them to test the line, particularly the error count.
The NM has probably been changed by instability, it looks like your line suffers from noise. Don't worry about power - routers and MSANs seem to be inventing new rules. ;)
Now this is peculiar...
Did remove the ring wire on 1 extension, nothing much changed.
Did unplug the Sky box...
attenuation went up to nearly 45db..! Plugged it back in... now down to 40.5db. WTF is going on..? The Sky box is wired to an extension... :dunno:
Quote from: troesma on Jul 09, 2009, 12:54:14
Now this is peculiar...
Did remove the ring wire on 1 extension, nothing much changed.
Did unplug the Sky box... attenuation went up to nearly 45db..! Plugged it back in... now down to 40.5db. WTF is going on..? The Sky box is wired to an extension... :dunno:
BTW noise margin also went up on unplugging the Sky box, to 15.5db, on reconnecting it went down to 14.6db.
Update. Just got this message from James...
Hi Eduardo,
When the regrade takes place you are automatically put on a 2Mb profile
to start off the training period. Over the next 10 days the most stable
speed for your line will be calculated. It is normal to see 2Mb speeds
in the first few days.
Kind regards,
James
IDNet Support
Now, might that also explain the NM issue..?
QuoteNow, might that also explain the NM issue..?
No that's just the original BT setup, before it even looks at your line. Target noise margin is put up if you have a bunch of re-syncs. Don't ever work on you phone wiring with the router on and connected, as the stupid Dynamic Line Management will punish you for weeks with a high target noise margin if you re-sync enough.
Two other things:
- I found that removing the ring wire on all extensions is best. Even with the router one removed, with others connected there was still a noise effect.
- Sky boxes are notorious. Usually you need one filter at every extension. Most people recommend putting two filters in series in front of a Sky box.
Richard
Quote from: rireed3 on Jul 09, 2009, 13:06:21
No that's just the original BT setup, before it even looks at your line.
Two other things:
- I found that removing the ring wire on all extensions is best. Even with the router one removed, with others connected there was still a noise effect.
- Sky boxes are notorious. Usually you need one filter at every extension. Most people recommend putting two filters in series in front of a Sky box.
Richard
Sure, BUT the effect of removing the Sky box was that NM and ATTN went UP, not down, suggesting the Sky box is acting as a filter. What you suggest (unless I'm getting it wrong) is that the Sky box introduces interference, whereas here seems the contrary..!
No, that's actually backwards (I also edited my last post -- have another look)
Noise margin is not noise, it's the margin of clean DSL signal above a noise floor. High noise margin means you have more clean signal to encode bits on. Taking the noise source away makes the margin go up. BT has your target at 15. If it allowed a re-sync to a target of 6, you could get another 9 db worth of bits and corresponding speed increase, but they won't until your line proves it can hold the margin for 14 days.
Richard
Quote from: rireed3 on Jul 09, 2009, 13:17:51
No, that's actually backwards (I also edited my last post -- have another look)
Noise margin is not noise, it's the margin of clean DSL signal above a noise floor. High noise margin means you have more clean signal to encode bits on. Taking the noise source away makes the margin go up. BT has your target at 15. If it allowed a re-sync to a target of 6, you could get another 9 db worth of bits and corresponding speed increase, but they won't until your line proves it can hold the margin for 14 days.
Richard
OK, having disconnected the Sky box pumped the NM to 25.7db now. Let's see where it goes, but guess I'll need to wait for 48 hrs as James suggested above.
Have you tried connecting the router to the master socket behind the faceplate? That will eliminate all the potential wiring and device problems from your internal setup.
Nope, it's not connected to BT test socket, but from the outer one on the master box. Will try later on.
When you disconnect the router make sure you turn the power off first before removing the DSL line cable.
Quotepumped the NM to 25.7db now
That's
very good. The Dynamic Line Management (DLM) complicates what to do next, and Sky might wonder where their box went :mad:
DLM is nearly the most annoying thing about BT packages sold by providers. It punishes you for re-syncs when you're trying to fix your line. And it punishes you for momentary noise like thunderstorms.
I would tell you to re-sync now, as that would get your noise margin back down to 15 and get some connection speed, but you've apparently angered the DLM god already, if your target is 15. Also, you have to decide what to do with the Sky box, so don't re-sync any more than necessary.
When you figure out what wires to disconnect and what filters to buy and plug in, then turn your router off or unplug it from its filter and do all the wiring work. Then plug in the router and turn it on.
Richard
If you're in the mood for spending ;D do yourself a favour and get one of THESE (http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=105) it will isolate your internal wiring and you no longer need any filters on any equipment.
even the sky box? :eyebrow:
Quote from: troesma on Jul 09, 2009, 12:54:14
Did unplug the Sky box... attenuation went up to nearly 45db..! Plugged it back in... now down to 40.5db. WTF is going on..? The Sky box is wired to an extension... :dunno:
What did your sync speed do? Attenuation increases with speed on WBC. As Richard says, the increase in NM when the Sky box is unplugged is good, and a sign that the Sky box is part of your problem.
if i was you i would disconnect the sky box untill sky start sending you letters if ever.
Which they will only do with a multi-room subscription.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 09, 2009, 16:29:37
Which they will only do with a multi-room subscription.
If you have a face plate Rik does that automatically remove a sky box from the equation?
Generally, I'd say yes, Gary, but Sky boxes are well known for getting through the filters.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 09, 2009, 17:27:46
Generally, I'd say yes, Gary, but Sky boxes are well known for getting through the filters.
Thats bad what on earth can make them cause that much issue, the modems must be awful, well I suppose they are sky boxes
I've known one Sky box take out an entire street, Gary, it was putting so much noise on the line. :(
Quote from: Rik on Jul 09, 2009, 17:38:54
I've known one Sky box take out an entire street, Gary, it was putting so much noise on the line. :(
That is bad, thankfully our HD box seems ok, I cant bend down on my own to unplug and plug it into the wall. but its though an adsl nation filter so :fingers:
Unless you have multi-room, Gary, or use PPV a lot, I recommend leaving them disconnected.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 09, 2009, 18:05:38
Unless you have multi-room, Gary, or use PPV a lot, I recommend leaving them disconnected.
I get films out Rik when Justina is away so its not practicable for me
Fair enough. I suppose you could use an extension at a more comfortable height for the Sky lead, otherwise double-filter it.
OK chaps, came back home, and did the roll call...
1. Sky box out = checked..!
2. Modem powered-off before disconnecting phone line = done..!
3. Modem hooked into BTs main box = checked..!
4. Ring wire (pin 3) disconnected througout all phone extensions in the house = checked..!
5. Left modem to cool-off for at least 30 mins = done..!
6. Used 2 ADSL filter boxes to rehook mains phone (wireless station, just in case) = done..!
7. Powered-up = done..!
And what I get is :mad:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/513868491.png
when AM and before I staretd juggling around, was...
http://www.speedtest.net/result/513484333.png
WTF..?
Quote from: Rik on Jul 09, 2009, 18:09:57
Fair enough. I suppose you could use an extension at a more comfortable height for the Sky lead, otherwise double-filter it.
Its easier as it is for now, Rik. Anyway I have a good sync so I'll leave it, but that's a good idea for a future time. :thumb:
Quote from: troesma on Jul 09, 2009, 20:34:07
OK chaps, came back home, and did the roll call...
1. Sky box out = checked..!
2. Modem powered-off before disconnecting phone line = done..!
3. Modem hooked into BTs main box = checked..!
4. Ring wire (pin 3) disconnected througout all phone extensions in the house = checked..!
5. Left modem to cool-off for at least 30 mins = done..!
6. Used 2 ADSL filter boxes to rehook mains phone (wireless station, just in case) = done..!
7. Powered-up = done..!
And what I get is :mad:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/513868491.png
when AM and before I staretd juggling around, was...
http://www.speedtest.net/result/513484333.png
WTF..?
Hi, sorry for the stock reply, and I'm not saying this to wind you up, but we haven't found speedtest.net to be the most accurate, so we always recommend people to use the BT Speedtester, as this also shows your profile. If you'd like to do one and post it, someone will advise. :)
Quote from: Simon on Jul 09, 2009, 21:06:34
Hi, sorry for the stock reply, and I'm not saying this to wind you up, but we haven't found speedtest.net to be the most accurate, so we always recommend people to use the BT Speedtester, as this also shows your profile. If you'd like to do one and post it, someone will advise. :)
As requested... at 21:10 PM today
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 3748 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 888 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 1000 kbps :mad:
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 907 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
Whereas
AM todayTest1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 3483 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 888 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2319 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
Modem statistics follwoing the new set-up are
DSL Driver Version: AnnexA version - A2pB022g.d20e
DSL VPI/VCI: 0/38
DSL Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
DSL Mode: ADSL2
DSL Channel: FAST
DSL Upstream Rate: 888 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 3748 Kbps
DSL Noise Margin: 13.9 dB / 6.3 dB (down/up)
DSL Attenuation: 41.5 dB / 23.5 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm / 12.8 dBm
Earlier PM (with SAME setup) NL went to the 25db region. Should I assume BT is tweaking things at their end..?
Update, at 21:21 modem stats NOW show
DSL Noise Margin: 10.2 dB / 5.1 dB (down/up)
DSL Attenuation: 44.0 dB / 23.3 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm / 13.0 dBm
so it seems something is going on at the exchange... ???
Why ATTN is poking upwards..?
This is improved a bit, believe it or not.
The profile will come up to 3M if you keep this sync for between a few hours to 3 days, meaning leave well alone for a bit.
Don't know why the ATTN changed, but leave well alone for a bit.
I think you should get a 5500 Kb sync. at 44 db. You'll get some improvement after two weeks on this sync when DLM lets you sync to a lower noise margin, but it looks like there is still extra noise holding you back. You may not be able to eliminate this, but have a look here:
DSLZone 'improve your speed' (http://www.dslzoneuk.net/socket.php)
In any case leave well alone for a bit.
If you must fiddle, try not to re-sync more than once in 24 hours, and always turn off the router whilst working.
Richard
i believe your attenuation rises as the sync increases on ADSL2+. Things are looking better except that your profile has taken a hit for some reason, obviously this will affect your throughput. As Richard said, leave everything alone now and allow it to settle, the profile should rise again soonish. :fingers:
Forgot to ask what router you have? Also can you find the DSLAM Vendor Information in it? It would appear that some router \ DSLAM combinations don't work too well.
Thanks folks, I'll leave it to settle and check things AM tomorrow to see if the profiling has changed upwards. Maybe NM would go down to 6db at the point where I know I'll be hitting the wall in terms of speed. As said, checked ALL CONNECTIONS (on BT Master and extensions) removing the ring wire, ensuring everything is tidy, even pur 2 ADSL filters in series to hook-up my phone wireless extension. Line does not show any signal of noise. Let's pray... :angel:
Quote from: Ted on Jul 09, 2009, 21:59:50
Forgot to ask what router you have? Also can you find the DSLAM Vendor Information in it? It would appear that some router \ DSLAM combinations don't work too well.
Linksys WAG160N
I'll check on the DSLAM bit in a sec...
Quote from: troesma on Jul 09, 2009, 22:01:53
Linksys WAG160N
I'll check on the DSLAM bit in a sec...
Apologies, cannot find it... :blush:
No worries, it was just a thought, its unlikely but you never know. Nice router by the way 8)
Unfortunately, BT's system means that if your line is unstable, your profile is going to suffer, which in turn causes problems with throughput.
OK, this is now getting me ANNOYED TO THE EXTREME
Some decent number of hours following my checks on the wiring and doing all the right stuff where needed...
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 3759 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1010 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 1000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 919 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
And checked the modem stats just now, NM gone UP again to 15.1db.
In addition, I now have NO PHONE LINE (there is no tone... it was working fine yesterday).
WHAT THE F**K IS BT DOING..?
I'm now worse that where I was before the change: lower DL speed (thanks to lower profiling which has not changed in 18 hours) and no telephone line. HEEELP :bawl:
Report the voice line fault to BT, don't mention ADSL. Are you sure you haven't dislodged a wire anywhere?
Your profile is suggesting instability and frequents re-syncs. What router do you have?
As said above, a Linksys WAG160N which has worked flawlessly.
Of course, forgot to mention I have a cr*p ADSL service working... :mad:
Sorry, I should have remembered that. You need first of all to get your voice side straight, so make sure that you haven't knocked a wire off anywhere and then report the voice fault to BT. You've had 10 re-syncs today, six within seconds of each other. That's going to cause DLM to kick in and push up the target NM and down the profile, which is exactly what you're seeing. If the re-syncs weren't triggered by you, you need to establish what is causing them. Routerstats, if you can get it to work with the Linksys, might help establish a pattern.
http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm
The line has not been in use today until now... I'll check what's going on in a sec...
Found the culprit... phone line knocked off by missus... :rant2:
Phone line back to life.
Now to sort that ADSL issue.
It's a start. :thumb:
QuoteYou've had 10 re-syncs today, six within seconds of each other.
Edit: I didn't see Rik's post. Rik, where did you see all his re-syncs today? He still has the same sync rate as yesterday?
Richard
There were 10 re-syncs today, Richard, I think there's a five-day wait ahead. :(
Sorry, I just saw your previous post and edited mine
Where did you see all his re-syncs?
I asked Miriam. ;)
Seems I cannot make Routerstats to work... dammit :bawl:
http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm
Says it will work with your router...
Think it's Vista 64... :mad:
Ah...
Quote from: troesma on Jul 10, 2009, 18:39:40
Think it's Vista 64... :mad:
Forget the 64, it's just Vista. :tongue: :out:
;D
Quote from: Rik on Jul 10, 2009, 18:08:20
There were 10 re-syncs today, Richard, I think there's a five-day wait ahead. :(
Doing some investigation, looks like it was my 2 year old toddler playing with the router reset buttton... :no:
Cannot confirm 100% but it looks plausible.
:hehe:
That's one clever toddler. If proven.
Like that cat who was responsible for the massive increase in the water bill because it kept pushing the handle and flushing the toilet.
They do say that toddlers are as intelligent as cats. ;D
It's why I like paper-clip resets. :)
I can never find a paper clip when I need one. :laugh:
A biro usually does the trick for me. :)
Quote from: bobleslie on Jul 11, 2009, 12:40:02
I can never find a paper clip when I need one. :laugh:
I have one tape to the router. ;D
:clever:
A hard learned lesson, Bob. :)
Folks, an update on this.
Stayed working overnight and pretty much from 12:00 AM sharp down through to 2 AM (when I simply got fed-up) the line started to reset itself, loosing connection, coming up, loosing it again, dunno how many times... it made internet browsing impossible. Woke up today and during the day it has behaved perfectly, no resets, no issues (touch wood). Will try to stay late again and check if it happens again at the same time. Maybe suggesting something is happening at BT side..?
I'm now going to check my stats... guess it's NOT improved a bit. BTW made a visual inspection of the cabling and everything looks fine. Only concern is that I have an electrical mains box just too close to the BT mains, and it's impossible for the phone cables to avoid passing very near it... dunno about interference, as standard electrical wiring (and phone wiring) does not have the best shielding...
Later
Ed
No, but phone wiring should be twisted, reducing the tendency to pick up noise. It sounds like one of two things, a noise source such as a street light or industrial process, or possibly exchange work, there is a lot going on these days and it is happening at night. Do you know your 21CN date off hand?
BT test shows now...
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 3220 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1023 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps :fingers:
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2312 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
So things went back roughly to where they were BEFORE the upping request (still IP thoroughput is lower... I used to have 2800 kbps solid.)
Modem stats show...
DSL Noise Margin: 16.5 dB 4.6 dB
DSL Attenuation: 40.5 dB 23.4 dB
So NM gone up marginally.
Maybe it's a question of waiting..?
Looking good. :thumb:
The noise margin has gone up slightly because the noise has reduced since you sync'd. When the router syncs, it does so at a rate that that will achieve the target set by BT - in your case 15dB.
It is, I'm afraid. Your profile is correct for your sync speed, throughput is correct for the profile. You need to get that target NM down, and that requires 14 days without a loss of sync. (Unless BT fix a fault and log it, in which case it can be done manually.)
These are my BT exchange details...
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/LSLEE
No industrial site around... at least between me and the exchange (although there is a brownsite on the other side towards Kidbrooke which I presume are hooked to the same exchange..?)
Quote from: Rik on Jul 11, 2009, 19:10:27
It is, I'm afraid. Your profile is correct for your sync speed, throughput is correct for the profile. You need to get that target NM down, and that requires 14 days without a loss of sync. (Unless BT fix a fault and log it, in which case it can be done manually.)
Maybe worth asking James to get BT to do it..? (manually)
BT are more often that not willing to do so, but it's always worth a try.
No clues there, your 21CN date is too far off for work to be going on yet. :(
Wonders of DLM, I guess... :mad:
You've got it. Your only other option, if things don't settle, would be to try LLU.
Guess that's for the folks at IDNET to arrange...
It may yet happen. :)
OK, did another detailed run through the house and using a piece of kit that is very sensible to RF interference, found that my alarm clock transformer was emitting a HUGE amount of noise... and was plugged 10 cm away from the router.
Router stats after I removed it from sight...
DSL Driver Version: AnnexA version - A2pB022g.d20e
DSL VPI/VCI: 0/38
DSL Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
DSL Mode: ADSL2+
DSL Channel: FAST
DSL Upstream Rate: 1047 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 4562 Kbps :)
(Down/Up)
DSL Noise Margin: 15.2 dB 5.9 dB
DSL Attenuation: 44.5 dB 23.3 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm 13.0 dBm
Cannot do a BT line check yet (within 3 hour window) but let's see how it goes...
That's a positive change. :)
Unfortunately, your target SNRM is still set at 15dB. If you hold sync for 14 days, that should drop by 3dB. This should continue in 3dB increments down to the lowest setting of 6dB.
Hope that sorts it, Ed. :)
Finished work, now to bed... previous BT Speedtest results on SAT at 7 PM
BT test shows now...
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 3220 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1023 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2312 kbps
Now SUN at 3:10 AM
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 4562 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1046 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2305 kbps
Router stats show...
DSL Noise Margin: 12.7 dB 5.5 dB
DSL Attenuation: 44.5 dB 23.3 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm 13.0 dBm
So it seems it's sorting out, slowly but consistently ;)
Hope IP profile changes soon...
3-5 days, probably nearer 5 given the number of re-syncs you've had. :(
Quote from: troesma on Jul 12, 2009, 03:17:34
So it seems it's sorting out, slowly but consistently ;)
Re the SNRM, it's probably only because there's more noise around now. I'd have thought that if you re-sync now, it'll be 15dB again.
(Sebby's not telling you to re-sync :eek4:)
It does look like there is still extra noise on your line. Your sync speed is still the same as you posted at 20:05, but your margin has dropped from 15.2 to 12.7. I think your target is still at 15 as that won't go down until your line doesn't re-sync for 14 days.
The three pieces of information are all relevant: noise margin and connection (sync) speed at that margin, and history of sync (how long since the last sync, how many syncs since the router was turned on). Lleave the router on unless you work on the wiring.
Richard
You're right, Richard, I'm not - this line needs some stability for a while.
Rik's too fast! Sorry for the mistake (edited). I meant Sebby.
People keep saying that lately. ;D
Quote from: rireed3 on Jul 12, 2009, 10:48:19
(Sebby's not telling you to re-sync :eek4:)
It does look like there is still extra noise on your line. Your sync speed is still the same as you posted at 20:05, but your margin has dropped from 15.2 to 12.7. I think your target is still at 15 as that won't go down until your line doesn't re-sync for 14 days.
The three pieces of information are all relevant: noise margin and connection (sync) speed at that margin, and history of sync (how long since the last sync, how many syncs since the router was turned on). Lleave the router on unless you work on the wiring.
Richard
Yup, I'm NOT going to touch anything for a while, but keep monitoring it.
Router says NM back to 14.7db region, so it suggests it's not moving from the 15db target and guess it's going to stay there until the line is stable enough. Luckily, no re-syncs so far but will ask Miriam if she can check on Monday how many re-syncs have taken place during the WE to see what's going on.
From the discussions in other threads, seems BT is making a right mess out of ADSL2 bundling. Just hope IDNet don't get hit hard with customers moving away on behalf of BTs surly service. As the saying goes, it takes a generation to build a reputation, and a second to destroy it.
QuoteRouter says NM back to 14.7db region
It's still worthwile trying to find what's causing the fluctuation. When NM goes down and then back up without re-syncing, it means that momentary noise has affected your line. 2.5 db is a lot for short term variations and is worth investigation.
Having doing exhaustive checks yesterday, have a strange feeling it's on BT's side of things >:(
Will try to check today if I missed anything, though.
Many of us have been through this search. Sometimes, but not very often, it's in the exchange. It was in my case, but it was the devil to prove this and BT's systems and processes did everything to prevent proof, so you'll be much more fortunate if it's under your control.
I realise from one of your previous posts that your noise margin was "solid" at 12.1 before the upgrade, so you believe the fluctuation is due to the upgrade. The way DLM works makes it unlikely that this was without the presence of noise. The standard target margin is 6, but this is raised automatically when the line has too many errors/re-syncs. The target 12 means it was raised in 2 steps of 3 db each.
The only way to really eliminate your house wiring as a source is to turn off the router, unscrew the front of the master socket and plug the router filter into the test socket underneath (others please say if you think this is a good idea for now). I can't find in your posts where you did this, but if you can do without extensions for a while (pulling away the master face plate disconnects them all), you can check if the 15 db target you appear to be on becomes very steady, only changing slowly, often in the evening.
If you've already found out that using the test socket does not steady your line, for the search in your house and even nearby, it's often helpful to record the noise margin over a long period to see if the fluctuations have a timing you can associate with electrical equipment operation or soaking rain (not thunder - that affects everyone). I've read posts where a neighbour's treadmill was responsible and was identified this way. Sometimes the source is further away and more difficult to find or fix.
The treadmill example brings up filtered mains strips. Tricky to find these in good quality, and brands change, so this would take a little web research.
I thought you mentioned the RouterStats recording program once but in case not, find it here (it's cranky and we can help you use it):
RouterStats (http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm)
If you ultimately prove that the noise is away from your house, bear in mind that BT don't have to find and fix it. Your broadband is legally good enough for BT Wholesale/Openreach responsibilities. Then there are several approaches that IDNet support can help with where appropriate, but consult them with copious details so they can decide what's best. For example, if you have a bad pair and none of your neighbours do -- if BT won't/can't try a better spare, ask for a second line and number, then ask for your broadband to be switched to it. This is not the usual approach, but you see how things can develop. IDNet support are far better than most at figuring these alternatives.
Richard
The best test of all is to connect a USB-powered modem at the test socket with the house wiring powered off at the consumer unit, that eliminates everything in the house at a stroke. I'd still do the test socket though.
Nope, it's not connected to the Test Socket but the external one on BTs Master. Wonder if it's a good idea to force a resync before knowing if it holds its nerve for 48 hrs..?
Just checked and the NM is at 15.1db solid, but the downstream rate has gone UP marginally to 4636 Kbps. Maybe it's the time of the day... :whistle:
What do you think..?
Rates will only change on a re-sync so it sounds like you've had one.
Despite the increase, not good I guess... >:(
Not ideal, but then I find I get many more re-syncs on WBC than on Max, eg one a day rather than one a month. The technology is just pushing the line further.
Now seems it's starting to look better... 1:24 AM
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 4636 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1026 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 4000 kbps :thumb:
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3486 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
BTW touched nothing on the wiring/router, so just :fingers: it will continue to improve.
Interestingly, NM at 13.6dB right now...
Speedtest.net confirms improvement. Just hope there is more room to go (guess it's all bets on line noise)
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/516034077.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Just so you won't wonder, find the chart of profiles by connection speed at the bottom of this page:
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/adslmax_explained.php (http://www.dslzoneuk.net/adslmax_explained.php)
You can see that the bottom end of 4000 is 4544.
Also at:
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1904.msg31527#msg31527
;)
Oi..! Meant that just hope the NM ratio continues to fall ;) Know with the current profile what I'm getting is as much as can be squeezed out.
We'll see how stable this baby is throughout. Surpirsed the chains are moving faster than predicted... we were betting on getting stuck on a 2.5 kbps profile for days after the repeated re-syncs, it now moved a bit. Hopre progress continues.
:fingers:
NM ratio back to the 14.6db range... need to check what's going on here. It's fluctuating by 2db or thereabouts. Maybe the guys at IDNet could do a line test for me..?
They could, but a 2db fluctuation is not that unusual.
OK, seems no joy lasts forever with BT... :mad:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 4147 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1051 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps :rant2:
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3220 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
So it's back to square one, and there has been NOTHING changed to the local wiring, etc. Just don't know what the heck to do. The IP profile is changing every 24 hrs. How on earth would this stabilise..? It's like a ping-pong ball bouncing against the sides of a box.
WBC is more sensitive to noise than Max was, due to the higher frequencies used. It looks like your line is susceptible to noise, unfortunately.
By OUR you mean MINE..? Well, it could be the wiring to the exchange. It seems a lost battle :bawl:
I do. :blush:
Seems the last resort will be to plug the router to the test socket and loose my phone, etc., for 24 hours (have moved the cordless base 2 rooms away from the router, on an extension...) But wanted to keep things quiet for a while. Ring wires are all out. All connections tidied-up. Next bit would be to rewire my house with fiber optic..! :mad:
Have you done the MW radio 'walkabout' test?
Not with a MW radio but a walkie-talkie, that's when I detected the transformer of my cordless phone base was emitting lots of RF interference (and was sitting just by the BT main box). Then, it seems nothing much changed. Interestingly the area is polluted with wireless router/modems (I can pick at least 10 to 12 signals in my PC, 1/2 of them to which I could be able to connect given the signal strength). Maybe that's causing the issue..?
It won't be helping as it will certainly increase crosstalk on the main cable.
Unfortunately there is not much I can do about that, but it would be unbelievable the WBC service can be so sensitive that a technology pretty much widespread these days (such as wireless routers) could render it unstable.
I doubt the wireless side is the problem, tbh. For the past year, we have seen degradation of line speeds as ADSL take up increases. WBC (ADSL2+) is more sensitive to noise, so it's going to be more sensitive to crosstalk on the cable.
TBH, whatever it is, it's simply annoying. It can't be that in a first-world economy you cannot get decent Internet access due to infrastructure bottlenecks (of course, I'm not ruling out my own side of the equation, as my cabling might need revamping... but, looking at the forum...)
I know. Fibre is the only solution, but I expect that won't reach here in my lifetime. :(
Even in South America you get cities pretty much all wired over in fibre optic, since the 80s. It's just amazing.
No, sadly it's just BT. :(
OK, almost 2 days on and no change so far...
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 4115 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1048 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3211 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
NM still pegged at 15.3db. Wonder what next..? :dunno:
Up to five days for a profile change (which you're not due, that profile is correct for that sync), a continuous sync for 15 days to get the target NM to drop by 3db, repeat until it reaches its lowest level. :(
Piss :mad:
But interstingly BT changed the profile/NM down, then up again within 24 hours..? How come..?
Also reading on an e-mail from James, where he suggested to reboot the router every 24 hours to help the circuit train, which is not what you and others in the forum seem to suggest as best course of action. I'm ???
If the speed drops the profile will drop instantly, if you then re-connect at a much higher speed, the profile can adjust within hours. Small changes in speed take longer.
As to James' suggestion, so am I.
OK, if that's the case will shut-down today and every 24 hrs and re-ignite within 30 mins, and see how it goes :fingers:
I just wanted to keep things stable, un-touched, as it was suggested.
I've just had a word with support. Essentially, both sets of advice are right. ;D
What we need from you is the error count from your router. If there are any then the BT systems will not drop the NM. Being ADSL2+, things are working differently, and although it can take the 15 days that applied to Max, it's also possible the system will react faster. Try re-booting every 24 hours for a few days. If that doesn't work and you have no errors, then go for the 15 day stable connection.
Let me try to check where I can pick that piece of info from the Linksys WAG160... even the stats page is a hidden page inside the router Admin menu (took me a while to pick the way to access it from multiple forums)
Good hunting.
Modem behaves well, but firmware is cr*p.
There's a few like that. :(
Just did a NEW firmware update (which I did 30 days or so ago from out-of-the-box, factory loaded firmware...)
Some gems...
1.00.14
1. Fixed wireless dropout issue.
1.00.12
1. DownloadSpeedTest(), DUT web UI(port 80) will be inaccessible if set buffer size to a large number
2. v1.00.11, Wireless, Fail to find wireless SSID after set WPA password with "linksys" (7 chars)
3. GetWLanRadios() cannot return correct WideChannel information
4. GetDeviceSettings2() will return wrong country code for United Kingdom.
5. Fix bug that SIP call can not be initialized from WAN to LAN if the SIP Invite packet of the SIP Server doen't include port information.
6. Atheros driver's changelist from 6.1.1.98 to 6.1.1.111:
- Add FCC6 for Australia and Canada 5GHz.
- Fixed problem in broadcast performance.
- Disabled power constraint element when country IE is enabled on 2.4GHz channels since some stations will misunderstand the Power Constraint element and cause tx power to be set incorrectly.
- Re-enabled 11n NF periodic Calibration.
- Fixed a problem where STA cannot reassociate to AP after beacon stuck & HW reset.
- Enhanced dynamic allocation of TID buffers on ADDBA.
- Fixed throughput degradation issue during downstream TCP legacy co-existence tests.
- Addressed multiple BSSID performance issue.
So 2 versions within a month. Nice..! :mad:
Indeed. :(
OK, re-synced yesterday, did it as per manual ;D and no improvements. Guess I'm stuck. Think today (or tomorrow) the 5-day period for profile change is due. What the hell...
Try and leave things alone for a few days then and see if things settle. WBC, atm, does seem less stable than ADSL Max for me.
Yup, that was my next port of call. I guess that if the core infrastructure is not up to par (which we know is the case with BT) the roll-out of ADSL2+ is going to be a massive botch-up. Or maybe technology-wise it needs maturity, and we're all paying (sic) the costs learning-by-doing. From a commercial standpoint, I guess the folks at IDNet should think of placing a BIG CAVEAT to anyone thinking of switching-up. I personally don't give a damn about the 12 quid or so for the privilege of checking it out, but maybe others do. So if things don't quite work as expected it smells as a rip-off and I'm certain IDnet is not trying to rip-off anyone. Pure commercial common sense. Just my 2c.
I agree. The testing before launch was relatively small scale, so the real problems didn't begin to show (what the testing did reveal was modem/MSAN incompatibility). ATM, I'd urge caution to anyone thinking of making the move because it looks like there's no way back. From what we can make out, BT do not switch people back to DSLAMs if they regrade to Max, they merely profile the MSAN to behave like Max. That said, the launch of Max was at least as painful.
But that caution SHOULD BE MADE EXPLICIT IN THE SERVICE OFFERING. IDnet has always behaved incredibly well, has always been very reliable, always a friendly advice, a no-bullshit service (hey, I'm one of the earliest users of the service at the time it was starting to pick-up commercially through WOM). In the race for keeping up to pace in terms of offering, which in this industry is equal to speed improvements for most of the potential customer base (ok, no throttling,traffic shaping, contention rates... that's something the more savvy/niche consumer would look into...) I guess a ADSL2+ offering is called for, but if the cost is potentially getting people annoyed... not worth it IMHO.
It takes ages to build a reputation and a second to destroy it. In fact, I would be keen to see on IDNet webpage a message (when someone clicks on the ADSL2+ offer option) a big CAVEAT note explaining, in plan language, the potential issues and saying "you susbcribe knowing there is a risk you will see no speed/service improvement..." particularly if there is no way back, as you say.
No-one cares if the previous experience with MAX was at least as painful. In fact, people would argue "haven't you learnt from it..? you don't burn your fingers twice in the same fire.."
You are preaching to the converted. ;)
Yup, maybe so ;)
It's just that it would be stupid to see the folks run aground on BT screw-ups.
I preach regularly. ;)
Now Rik, I've seen elsewhere that ISPs now have the option of requesting SNR levels (or "Stability options") on all WBC and IPSC connections, to BT. If that's the case, why not IDnet try to request BT a change to the 9/12db level (which I think is the "Stable" option, dunno if fully determined by the MSAN) and see where it goes. That would get things past-by DLM. Views..?
My margin is set to 9db. That's stable with Max, less so with WBC. Going to 12db would probably reduce my speed below that I can achieve with Max (I was always a 'test case' being at the limits of any potential benefit from ADSL2+).
I could always try to do a DMT tweak at my end, but that's on the risky side... maybe ask IDNet to get BT force things down to 9db and see how it goes..?
BT are generally less inclined to force margins down, but it will do no harm to ask.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 18, 2009, 11:42:53
ATM, I'd urge caution to anyone thinking of making the move because it looks like there's no way back. From what we can make out, BT do not switch people back to DSLAMs if they regrade to Max, they merely profile the MSAN to behave like Max. That said, the launch of Max was at least as painful.
Doesn't sound like its going to be much fun for those people having problems with adsl2+. I presume eventually there will be no choice as adsl max equipment in the exchange will become redundant?
I think BT are ripping out DSLAMs as fast as they can go, Steve.
So, are we saying that eventually, everyone will have to switch, even if the new service isn't up to the old one?
Yes, afaik.
Hopefully it will become more tolerant with age. :(
I didn't, Steve. ;D
That's pants. :(
ok then more absentminded ;D
;D
And hungrier...
Quote from: Simon on Jul 18, 2009, 13:25:23
That's pants. :(
I know, but what can you do, age is like that. ;)
;D
BT don't want exchanges full of both MSANs and DSLAMs, nor, I suspect, do they want to maintain centrals and hostlinks. In time, we'll all connect to the same equipment, we may just appear to be on different services.
I think what we have to focus on is FTTC. It should help a significant amount of people to a great extent. The issue is not ADSL2+ itself, it's the poor state of the network.
Absolutely, Seb. I'm just 213m from my cabinet.
The other good thing about FTTC is that BT have said "anything below 15Mbps [downstream] would be considered a fault and require fixing".
That's before they install it, of course. ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Back to things, checked and Cisco does NOT support CLI on the Linksys WAG160N modem/router so I'm pretty much scr***d as even when I could access the router in debug mode, I can't do a thing with that. Pants (and a word of caution to anyone who's into tweaking... Linkysis, at least with the current firmware, don't allow you to.) BTW the WAG160N is based on the Broadcom 6348 chipset.
Maybe on Monday I'm gonna ask IDNet to ask for a forced change to BT to 9db and see how it goes. Interestingly, as I'm also on the FAST channel maybe I could squeeze some more speed if I get Interleaved. But maybe best to go 1 step at a time.
I would definitely take it one step at a time, or you'll never know what worked for you. There is a bigger range of interleaving with WBC than Max, which suggests BT were preparing for greater instability.
Starting to fancy this thing of being a bit of guinea pig, if it also helps others... :thumb:
:nana: ;D
Update..
Nothing much changed this AM. Sent e-mail to Miriam @ IDNT support to ask if they can place a request to BT to change my NM to 9db and see how things go. Hope I get and answer from the IDnet support folks soon :fingers:
Will keep you posted. Guess the change will take some days to materialise...
Quote from: Rik on Jul 18, 2009, 15:54:10
Absolutely, Seb. I'm just 213m from my cabinet.
Drinks cabinet? :cheers: thats a long way to crawl
Long straw? ;)
OK, so it's TUE 20:26 and still no reply from Miriam/IDNet support. A bit pissed-off TBH. So it's 48 hrs since my e-mail request and no-one even had a word just to say "yes we can do it" or "no we can't". Nothing, zip, zada, zilch. Let's see what happens tomorrow... :rant2:
They may still be awaiting a response from BT, but they should have let you know if that's the case. :(
Quote from: troesma on Jul 21, 2009, 20:28:50
OK, so it's TUE 20:26 and still no reply from Miriam/IDNet support. A bit pissed-off TBH. So it's 48 hrs since my e-mail request and no-one even had a word just to say "yes we can do it" or "no we can't". Nothing, zip, zada, zilch. Let's see what happens tomorrow... :rant2:
To be fair, you sent the email on a Sunday, when the offices are closed. Support are particularly busy right now, and emails are not being replied to in 5 minutes, or even 24 hours, but I understand that your request will be actioned today. Essentially, I would advise anyone who wants something done quickly to
phone IDNet. The call is free, you won't be kept hanging on for 45 minutes and you will speak to someone who can acton your request.
Yup, maybe I got a bit OTT so apologies (but a request passed on Sunday would have to be seen MON first time AM and my post was TUE after offices closing, so that makes 48 hours equivalent office time...)
Got an e-mail from Brian today, he suggests the change will become effective tomorrow (or so say BT). Thanks a lot. Let's see where all this goes. Guess the ADSL2+ product is giving the guys a bit of a headache.
Quote from: Rik on Jul 22, 2009, 09:35:21
To be fair, you sent the email on a Sunday, when the offices are closed. Support are particularly busy right now, and emails are not being replied to in 5 minutes, or even 24 hours, but I understand that your request will be actioned today. Essentially, I would advise anyone who wants something done quickly to phone IDNet. The call is free, you won't be kept hanging on for 45 minutes and you will speak to someone who can acton your request.
I'll second that, Rik, when I had my interleaving turned off recently, I phoned about midday and it was done before 9:00am the following morning. :thumb:
You can say that again. :(
Oh dear, going backwards again...
DSL Driver Version: AnnexA version - A2pB022g.d20e
DSL VPI/VCI: 0/38
DSL Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
DSL Mode: ADSL2+
DSL Channel: FAST
DSL Upstream Rate: 1047 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 3069 Kbps
Down up
DSL Noise Margin: 16.9 dB 6.3 dB
DSL Attenuation: 44.0 dB 23.3 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm 12.9 dB
So I seem to be sync'ed at a ridiculous IP profile now, AFTER IDNet requested BT to lower the NM to 9db. So now I'm at a loss. This is supposedly now "fixed" at BTs side of the equation, rather than left loose by DLM to decide. So either I'm missing something or just don't know what's going on. NOTHING has changed on the internal wiring, etc.
It looks like DLM has cut back in and decided you need a 15db target, I'm afraid. :(
But my understanding is that BT can override DLM on request, and just FIC NM to a preset level for any line, or I'm saying bonkers..?
Maybe I now need to WAIT FOR AGES until I get back to where I was.
They can override it, but afaik, if the system decides to, as with interleaving, it just does what it feels is necessary to provide a stable service. IOW, pegging the target NM at 9db is more a case of pegging the minimum at 9, than fixing the NM at that level.
It seems mine is a lost cause :bawl:
Either LLU or accept what I can get. FFS and I'm in London. This is just unbelievable.
Have a word with support on Monday, I may have got it wrong, but that's my understanding of how the system works. I take it we have gone through your internal phone wiring and electrics with a fine tooth comb?
Absolutely. No additions/deletions to the home wiring, in fact it is in BETTER shape than when I got profiled at 4500kbps. I will run a furthrt test and disconnect the modem tonite to see if I can re-sync at a better speed. Of course, absence of audible noise in the line (phone sounds as crisp as you can get) means nothing, as the RF interference we're talking about are not fully on the audible range. Let's see...
We all need access to knowledgeable and well-equipped engineers, and there seems to be precious few of them. :(
BT is PANTS. I'm really getting fed-up. It's just a shame IDNet have to put-up with those monkeys.
It's a shame we all do. I noticed a post over on ThinkBroadband today, echoing the speed issues that some here have experienced, but this was from a Plusnet customer. :(
Thing is, I do not want to walk away from IDNet. Period. TBH I'm not convinced by other suppliers promising heaven, but it might well be that I need to start checking around in the neighbourhood what sorts of speeds are attainable and then make a judgement.
I do understand your point. :(
Quote from: troesma on Jul 25, 2009, 19:21:44
it might well be that I need to start checking around in the neighbourhood what sorts of speeds are attainable and then make a judgement.
It might, but do get line stats from people, as it's always possible you're on a differently routed cable.
To start with, I'm gonna check my neighbours (same building and next door). James sent me an e-mail today saying the connection appears to be stable (so I assume no re-syncs) so interleaving would make no difference (not so sure... know of ppl who have gained 1Mb by switching out from FAST... or so they tell) and IP should be refreshed, BUT my connection is still pants and even a tad worse upstream.
Been away until today, just checked the line and guess what...
DSL Driver Version: AnnexA version - A2pB022g.d20e
DSL VPI/VCI: 0/38
DSL Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
DSL Mode: ADSL2+
DSL Channel: FAST
DSL Upstream Rate: 888 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 3069 Kbps
Down up
DSL Noise Margin: 16.4 dB 9.4 dB
DSL Attenuation: 44.0 dB 23.3 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm 13.0 dBm
So still in the s**t after a good 4 days on hold. Just sent a mesg to support to check how many re-syncs I had since Monday. This is driving me nuts.
Nothing in the router log?
Brain from support told me of 3 disconnects since Monday. The WAG160N router (as all Cisco stuff) is known to be pants when speaking of gettting any stats out of it... :mad:
It's strange how router manufacturers think these things unimportant, isn't it. :(
Yup...
OK, Brian from support sent me an e-mail saying they have requested BT to clear everything up, reset my line, reset profiles, clean all the s**t and this is how things stand NOW
DSL Driver Version: AnnexA version - A2pB022g.d20e
DSL VPI/VCI: 0/38
DSL Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
DSL Mode: ADSL2+
DSL Channel: FAST
DSL Upstream Rate: 888 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 6143 Kbps
Down up
DSL Noise Margin: 9.1 dB 9.2 dB
DSL Attenuation: 44.5 dB 23.3 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm 12.9 dBm
Connection is PERFECTLY STABLE, not an issue whatsoever. So the Q here is to check for how long this will hold-up until DLM decides otherwise, for whatever reason. Cross fingers. If this holds for 1 or 2 weeks maybe the next step is to go to 6db NM target, to max-out the connection speed (given my attenuation which is on the high-side...)
But given I'm not experiencing a major speed change (whatever the modem tells me) decided to run a speedtest and...
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/529345888.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
BT Speedtest says my IP profile is 2854Kbps..? (failed to complete, BT is utter cr*p even for a speed test thingie) Now WTF..? :dunno:
There isn't such a profile that I know of. :dunno:
The BT speedtest crashed at the point it was sending back the results. Will try later on but 2800 kbps is consistent with 2400 kbps from speedtest.net but NOT from what my router is telling me. THAT sets me at a loss.
It is, but the profiles step from 2500 to 3000, I've never seen anything in between at that speed range.
Interesting finding...
DSL Driver Version: AnnexA version - A2pB022g.d20e
DSL VPI/VCI: 0/38
DSL Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
DSL Mode: ADSL2+
DSL Channel: FAST
DSL Upstream Rate: 888 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 6143 Kbps
Down up
DSL Noise Margin: 7.8 dB 8.9 dB
DSL Attenuation: 44.5 dB 23.3 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm 12.9 dBm
So NM has gone slightly downwards, which is maybe normal (line fluctuations) but 1db from 9 us not the same as 1db from 15...
Again, BT Speedtest failed to get to the results screen, the intermediate one read
The Performance Tester is now testing Broadband connection. Your configured download throughput speed for this service is 5650 k
Please do not move away from this page and do not start any other download activity on your computer.
Speedtest.net suggests
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/529799510.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
We'll see :fingers:
Can you try and grab a screen shot next time?
(http://[url=http://rapidshare.com/files/262484131/BTScap.jpg%5D%5B/url%5D)
Not showing...
If that was it, it's invisible. ;)
Rapishare link
http://rapidshare.com/files/262484131/BTScap.jpg
Of course, test DIED before completing as it has happened in the last 3 to 4 days...
That really is weird - I don't have a profile like that on any list I've seen. :shake:
(Screenshot posted to save people going off to look.)
[attachment deleted by admin]
Something is not adding-up on BTs side of the pond (hardly a surprise, heh..?)
It isn't, I wish we knew what and why. :(
Whilst in the process IDnet and maybe others are getting stuffed with disgruntled customers. Great way of doing business.
Especially if no-one can hold you to account. BT get away with far too much. >:(
Quote from: Rik on Aug 01, 2009, 12:48:54
It isn't, I wish we knew what and why. :(
Issue is that THEY might be clueless :mad:
Are you trying to give me nightmares? ;D
Quote from: Rik on Aug 01, 2009, 12:52:27
Especially if no-one can hold you to account. BT get away with far too much. >:(
Well, under the current ROE the business model is fundamentally broken for any reseller of BT wholesale products. Needless to say, all the basic infrastructure is as good as in Nigeria. This is supposedly in the 1st world (not..?) Makes you :bawl:
It does. :(
Yet I am fortunate enough to live in the London area. Would it be in the middle of the countryside and the best I would get would be dial-up speeds in some locations :mad:
It's worse in Milton Keynes, we have the dreaded aluminium curse. :sigh:
It's a joke, really. Makes you wonder what the deal is. Of course, infrastructure is the expensive (and non-profitable) bit, so who cares.
The deal is that BT want to maximise profits and that Ofcom seem happy to let them . :(
What was the time period in which BT used aluminium core in the phone lines?
Late 60s into the 70s, afaik.
Quote from: Rik on Aug 01, 2009, 12:45:19
That really is weird - I don't have a profile like that on any list I've seen. :shake:
Either the lists available are not complete or BT have made a balls up.
That would about summarise it, Seb. :)
I reckon it's the latter!
Nothing lasts forever with BT :mad:
DSL Upstream Rate: 888 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 3069 Kbps
Down up
DSL Noise Margin: 17.3 dB 8.9 dB
DSL Attenuation: 44.5 dB 23.3 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm 12.9 dBm
So back to square 1. Interestingly, browsing until 3 AM revealed no probs at the higher sync rate, I sensed no issues with the stability. This is NUTS.
Options in the area on LLU
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/LSLEE
Maybe the way to go..? :dunno:
I don't want ot leave IDNet, but this is just pants.
What can we say? :dunno:
WBC seems to be a 1-way lane... to the abyss. I just don't know. There has been NOTHING that would suggest why speed has come down. Now, I reckon that if there is something going on between home and the exchange LLU would not provide any additional benefit...
Virgin cable? If you have fibre with them, it is now sold in 10 20 & 50mb/s flavours I believe.
Not in my area (it's a conservation area so Virgin, or any cable op, is not around here...)
I have a similar issue, no cable on the estate I'm on, but just 200 yds away, they have full service :mad:
Quote from: troesma on Aug 02, 2009, 11:42:01
Options in the area on LLU
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/LSLEE
Maybe the way to go..? :dunno:
I don't want ot leave IDNet, but this is just pants.
O2/Be is a good option - no imposed target margin and no profiles.
O2 suggests the max attainable speed is 7Mb, same Be. Now, dunno if this is a conservative or a sales-oriented estimate... in which case the sawp would, again, provide no additional benefits and lots of hassle.
Remind me of your line stats?
Latest stats atop this page in the thread (page 10). Since Friday I was on a NM between 7db and 9db solid.
Just checked Virgin and this came out...
You're not currently in a fibre optic cable area but Virgin National broadband still gives you fast broadband up to 16Mb down your phone line.
Forgot to read properly... :eyebrow:
I think you'll get 7.5Mb on LLU, and have no stability problems like you do on BT. Why not try Be on a short-term contract?
https://www.bethere.co.uk/web/beportal/shorttermcontracts
That link suggests I should get around 3mb
I wouldn't go by that - I'd use your attenuation on a site like Kitz.
Thanks. Bottom line is, that if O2/Be give me the option to go to 7 Mbps for the same money IDNet delivers (thanks to BT WBC product) 3 Mbps, well, it seems a no-brainer. I've heard some bad stories on Be, and that has prevented me to switch, but with their 3-month deal, it means that if it's not up to spec you walk out easily. The only BIG issue is the hassle, esp. on e-mail (where I have many licenses, etc. hooked to my idnet account, would need to do a lot of resets...)
I want to stay with IDNet, for them to find a way out, but it seems I'm going nowhere. True, I'm in better position than many (so why moaning..?) but could be much better, for the same money...
Need to think. Maybe my next step is to ask for a MAC code :bawl:
It's your call. I am sure that, eventually, the problems will be resolved. What I don't know is how long it's going to take.
Personally, I think it's worth a try with Be. Consumers should not have to pay for a poor service. What's more is that BT services are more expensive, when LLU is considerably better.
The price of the 3 month deal is far higher than the 12 month.
12 months.. £17.50 with no connnection charge
3 months... £20 with £24 connection charge.
And the up to 8megs deal is £13.50 with no connection charge but a 12 month contract
You can get £50 cashbash via Quidco for 02 http://www.quidco.com/mobiles-utilities/internet-providers/
Interesting on O2. Of course, 12-month loking contracts should work way cheaper, if and only if you're not buying snake oil. Once you've burnt your hand many times...
TBH I want to stay with the folks but let's reason. I'm on Home Pro, that's 24.46 quid a month and I get 2-something Mbps D/L speed. Be works at 20 quid/month + 24 quid connection charge. Over a 3-month period, Be works 14.5% more expensive but with over 200% (potential..?) gain in D/L speed. So, Pound for Pound, works much better. I have now a 30 Gig cap at peak time, Be is unlimited. Dunno about any contention rates, etc., things which might impact the connection and are only to be seen on the fine print. But, face value, that's it.
Quote from: Glenn on Aug 02, 2009, 17:55:50
You can get £50 cashbash via Quidco for 02 http://www.quidco.com/mobiles-utilities/internet-providers/
And £40 for Be...
http://www.quidco.com/bethere-co-uk/
Good find Sebby, I'll check today and see what's up and make a decision. I'm tired of feeling I'm a prisoner of BTs incompetence/lack of investment.
Here's my 21cn experience
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/531531615.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
What's your sync speed, attenuation and noise margin?
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4651 kbps 632 kbps
Line Attenuation 57.5 db 32.4 db
Noise Margin 8.3 db 6.0 db
???
Sync speed is pretty good for a 57db line (about 800k more than I manage, and we both seem to be on a 9db target noise margin. Can you do a BT speedtest, at least as far as getting your profile.
Test Results
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 4448 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 632 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1705 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.
Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.
It was fine until Friday, when a BT Openreach Engineer 'replaced' some equipment in the exchange because after my 21cn upgrade the ADSL would drop when receiving and incoming call. Since then speeds have died off dramatically and vary wildly between 0.2mbs and 2.0mbs. I've spoken with support and Miriam and Brian have been great but nothing seems to be getting done :(
It can take a while, and a few barrels on gunpowder, to shift BT, unfortunately. Coreservers is in a similar position, exchange equipment was change and his speed dropped. As the line was faulty at the time, BT won't consider the earlier sync speed as evidence.
That said, there is an issue with throughput being way below profile in your case, so I'd imagine that your case will join that group being escalated within BT.
What made me laugh the most was BT's own Openreach engineer refer to 21cn as 21st century notwork. He couldn't understand why it had been rolled out because none of the engineers are qualified or know enough about it to fix things if and inevitably when they go wrong. Starting to wish I'd never bothered with the original fault, I can live without an incoming call landline but not my net :p
I know how you feel. For me, it's been pretty painless, but the only real gain is the bandwidth allowance. I wasn't expecting anything more, which helps, but for those expecting to see much better speeds, it isn't happening in large numbers.
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/531565968.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
What the hell is going on, honestly :P
Honestly? I don't know. I don't particularly trust speed test sites as I've seen them return speeds higher than my profile. Check with the BT tester and try a couple of others, ThinkBroadband being one. It could be a congested VP, which was affecting Zappa till BT sorted it.
Quote from: troesma on Aug 02, 2009, 16:24:23
Thanks. Bottom line is, that if O2/Be give me the option to go to 7 Mbps for the same money IDNet delivers (thanks to BT WBC product) 3 Mbps, well, it seems a no-brainer. I've heard some bad stories on Be, and that has prevented me to switch, but with their 3-month deal, it means that if it's not up to spec you walk out easily. The only BIG issue is the hassle, esp. on e-mail (where I have many licenses, etc. hooked to my idnet account, would need to do a lot of resets...)
I want to stay with IDNet, for them to find a way out, but it seems I'm going nowhere. True, I'm in better position than many (so why moaning..?) but could be much better, for the same money...
Need to think. Maybe my next step is to ask for a MAC code :bawl:
I am not an expert by any means but why do you and many many others persist in locking yourself into an ISP's email address? I have, over the past three plus years had a FREE gmail address (14 in truth) with absolutely (true) nil problems whatsoever.
For not one moment have I had a problem with unwanted spam, their spam filter is second to none and is the
bizzo. Why Oh! Why! lock yourself into any ISP's email system, total madness in my opinion ::)
If certain sites require an 'ISP' email address (rare in my opinion) then certainly use one but as a general rule give an ISP email addresses a vast and extra wide birth. ;) I honestly cannot fault gmail accounts. :thumb:
:iagree:
Or, do as many of us do, and have our own domain email hosted by someone like 1&1, PurpleCloud etc.
Is it free for 7GB space and rising?
No, but it's pretty cheap, about £70p/month, from memory, Bob. A domain name costs about £6 for two years. It's just nice, imo, to have a personal email address.
Well, I've got a couple of those domains, and I just have them pointed at my Gmail account.
That way I don't have to pay for an e-mail account(s).
That's another route, Bob. I have GMail accounts too. Given my predilection for backups, you won't be surprised to know I thought it was a good idea to have three sets of mail servers available to me. ;D
Oh I'm with you all the way.
Also have a Live Account which mirrors the GMail and in turn is mirrored onto my main computer through Outlook and with multiple backups downstream thereafter.
All free though.
Except for the domain. ;D
If you know of free domains without conditions and a free mail forwarding service. Lead on McRik. ;D
;D
If I did, I wouldn't be paying either. ;)
I can't stand gmail. I've still got a couple of addresses that I use as spamtraps but I use tiscali addresses also for semi-rubbish things and when they get too spam ridden I can drop them and make another. Just sign up for a dial up pay as you go account. My real email address goes with my paid for domain. I have found that you get a better service from a paid for account rather than an ISP email address where the email is their secondary business.
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 4448 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 632 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 862 kbps
Oh well, looks like BT have well and truly annihilated my connection :-\
Talk to support, there's a number of users seeing this kind of thing, not just on IDNet.
Folks, been away for a while. This is the latest situation
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 4458 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 888 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 3955 kbps ???
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3643 kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 15.43:26.1:58.47 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.
The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
TBH dunno how many reconnects have been, whatever. Now that I'm back in the controls I'll monitor this more closely and if there is no major improvement will go for an LLU provider, sadly.
Oh well... :mad:
Have you seen Simon's post about the capacity upgrades that are being rolled out between now and Monday?
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=15238.msg367653#msg367653
Just seen it, but being BT, should be expect anything out of it..? (higher profiling..? no disruption to service..?)
Seems it's more about making space for new customers than providing thoroughput upgrades to existing ones. Or am I missing something..?
We'll find out come Monday morning. ;)
Hint: Don't hold your breath!
Quote from: troesma on Aug 15, 2009, 12:11:06
Seems it's more about making space for new customers than providing thoroughput upgrades to existing ones. Or am I missing something..?
The implication is that it's about fixing the throughput problems, but we'll only know when they've done the work.
Anyone taking bets..? ;D
With BT involved? :eyebrow:
Good point, however that would be reflected in the odds... ;D
;D
Maybe though it could be an easy way to make money...
It is for BT. >:(
Now in Madrid with 40 degrees C in the shade, back to the UK later on the evening but just want to ask... what has happened following BTs upgrade yesterday..? Any noticeable change..? Will report on my line once I'm back, but any feedback would be useful.
Bet: NOTHING major has changed :whistle:
I know of at least one case which has shown a massive improvement (800k below profile for throughput). The important thing to be aware of with WBC is that the entire connect is re-built when you re-boot. To ensure you get the benefits of the BT work, power down the router for 5 minutes. That way, there's no chance of the session being retained. 40C - too hot. ;)
Well, that's encouraging. I'll need to power-down the router on arrival and then see what happens. Dunno why I'm feeling agnostic about the whole deal behind this upgrade.
Yup, now 38C and heading for 40C. It's scorching.
We're hoping it's been sorted. If not, there's going to be more harsh words directed at BT. :fingers:
Or people walking away... again, ISPs to pick the bill for BTs incompetence. Let's pray :fingers:
On the other hand, if people start hooking to LLU providers that's going to get hit at some stage also. If cable is not an option, it's a Catch-22 situation, me thinks.
It is, rather, but we have to be optimistic - I can remember the mayhem which accompanied the launch of Max.
I'm having funny times with telephony providers recently. Just opened a new company and decided to consolidate my mobile accounts into the business. Have been with T-Mobile since 2005, no issues ever. So I go ahead. Arrive yesterday to Madrid and my Blackberry won't connect. WTF..? Arrive to hotel, try T-Mobile online support. Does not work. Nice. Send an e-mail to them. After some time got back a reply saying "you need to pay a 250 quid deposit as you are a new customer of T-Mobile to use the kit abroad." You mean what..? Been with the company for 5-years. "We don't care of your track record as a private customer, this is a new account and those are the rules." But no-one told me about this beforehand. "We cannot say, Sir, what you've been told or not when you subscribed your business account. Those are the rules. Pay and you'll have service abroad."
In no-time I fired an e-mail to their CMO and will get to their CEO (whom I have access to an acquaintance, former Orange CEO) if this is not sorted. I don't give a s**t about the 250 quid, it's a matter of principle. This is what happens when you have monkeys in call-centers answering "by the book" rather than making a proper, contextual judgement.
Oh well, it might be me... but I have other metrics in relation to customer loyalty and retention.
I'm with you, T, but I suspect the people you've spoken to have limited powers, and none to waive the charge. They probably also lack the gumption to flag it up to a supervisor to look at.
Which is what I suspect as well, but then, if you can hear a customer fuming, just raise the issue with a supervisor. What's the difficulty..? Simple: lack of brains. Now their CMO is on alert, let's see whether he reacts or not. You can imagine that T-Mobile CEO (even his CMO) have little time to entertain this sort of minsucule rants, but then, many minor issues such as this one mean customers flying out the window. Why tolerate surly service..? They're not making you any favour, you're paying them what they ask for the service.
Ed
I know, Ed, they just don't seem to get that in the call centres. I escalate to CEO level regularly if the minions don't understand what I'm asking. ;)
As for BT re-dimensioning, or whatever, things went BACKWARDS
DSL Driver Version: AnnexA version - A2pB022g.d20e
DSL VPI/VCI: 0/38
DSL Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
DSL Mode: ADSL2+
DSL Channel: FAST
DSL Upstream Rate: 888 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 3069 Kbps
Down up
DSL Noise Margin: 15.0 dB 9.1 dB
DSL Attenuation: 45.0 dB 23.5 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm 12.8 dBm
:mad:
Guess it's the end of the road on WBC for me. Enough of this cr**. Not IDNet fault, just BT seems not to be up to par.
I feel for you Ed. And I know what you mean Rik. But some of us don't even get managers to escalate to. It's all being outsourced. It won;t be long before the call centre staff have to call a managers call centre to have anything authorised. They will get the same fob off the customer gets.
I'm close to sending the complaints to my CEO myself half the time. (although I'm in a totally different industry)
Back on topic. I don't get WBC until March. So hopefully it's sorted. What's the results on short range phone lines? Same problems as those that are at longer distances?
As was commented yesterday, we don't usually get to hear the positive side, just when things go wrong, Ben, so it's quite difficult to judge levels of success.
Quote from: Technical Ben on Aug 19, 2009, 22:33:56
I feel for you Ed. And I know what you mean Rik. But some of us don't even get managers to escalate to. It's all being outsourced. It won;t be long before the call centre staff have to call a managers call centre to have anything authorised. They will get the same fob off the customer gets.
I'm close to sending the complaints to my CEO myself half the time. (although I'm in a totally different industry)
Back on topic. I don't get WBC until March. So hopefully it's sorted. What's the results on short range phone lines? Same problems as those that are at longer distances?
Thanks folks. FORTUNATELY something happened as the roaming is now fully authorised/working. Interesting bit (about the "brains" side of it). Not quite long after I fired the e-mail to T-Mobile CMO, there was a message in my mobile voicemail asking me to contact their business support ASAP. Ejem, I was abroad with zilch access to my voicemail, even data on my Blackberry. How on earth they expected me to call back..? Only knew about the msg when I turned on my kit on landing at Heathrow. Now that's some thinking..! (btw they have alternative phones to contact me...) Anyway it's all sorted now.
On the IDNet side of things, well, I simply try to make my mind with all sorts of excuses for not asking a MAC code but I'm running out of ideas. True, things might get sorted eventually, but in the meantime what..? I am paying for a 3Mb service what I can be paying (even less) for a 7Mb one on LLU. So what's the deal..? Again, NOT IDNet TO BLAME but the troops of BT cowboys. If anything, I sort of smell fish (= contention, over-subscription chores, etc.) on Be in short time (cable not available in my area.)
So, if anyone has other ideas/views, more than welcome.
BT are clearly not fit for purpose. :( The node failure at Milton Keynes, which started just after 4 yesterday afternoon, is still ongoing 16 hours later. Those affected are finding their PPP sessions dropping every few minutes, for 3-5 minutes at a time. Obviously, BT have built no redundancy into the system, so are unable to route around the problem until it's fixed. It makes you wonder whether the 21CN voice network will work. :shake:
Quote from: Rik on Aug 20, 2009, 08:22:11
BT are clearly not fit for purpose. :( The node failure at Milton Keynes, which started just after 4 yesterday afternoon, is still ongoing 16 hours later. Those affected are finding their PPP sessions dropping every few minutes, for 3-5 minutes at a time. Obviously, BT have built no redundancy into the system, so are unable to route around the problem until it's fixed. It makes you wonder whether the 21CN voice network will work. :shake:
Which makes you seriously wonder what's the deal on WBC then... read your post on your WBC experience in another thread, clearly, for me there has been no benefit whatsoever. I'm kind of far from the exchange, but in London (not the middle of nowhere) and yet it seems all the basic infrastructure (cabling to start with) is pants.
BT's infrastructure, a bit like London's sewers, needs overhauling urgently. I can't see it happening, though. :(
Which makes you wonder, even on LLU, whether the deal is worth having. Cable (which is on a fiber optic network) is the choice, but alas, I'm in a conservation area so that's not an option for me :mad:
Fibre does seem to be the only real way forward, unless the Govt funds an infrastructure upgrade, and I really don't think that's going to happen. You're not in Muswell Hill are you?
Nope, in the Blackheath area (SE London).
Quote from: Rik on Aug 20, 2009, 12:13:45
Fibre does seem to be the only real way forward, unless the Govt funds an infrastructure upgrade, and I really don't think that's going to happen. You're not in Muswell Hill are you?
DirectTV in the Americas I think offers a satellite-based system, so no dependency on any cabling of sorts. In LatAm, on certain cities you have about 5 cable operators competing on the same area, plus most of the basic infrastructure is already on optic fibre (and I'm talking of 20 million people size cities...) Why the UK is lagging SO behind is just staggering.
Because we're British and don't complain well.
Quote from: troesma on Aug 20, 2009, 12:09:04
Which makes you wonder, even on LLU, whether the deal is worth having. Cable (which is on a fiber optic network) is the choice, but alas, I'm in a conservation area so that's not an option for me :mad:
Cable is actually copper - co-ax (rather than twisted-pair). They do run some fibre to the cabinet which is enough for the ASA to allow their ad campaign (though it is a bit mis-leading).
S
A bit like FTTC, then.
My mate use to live around 100m from my house. I really considered if we could get a network cable to reach that far. Now I'm less than 100m from the exchange, I should probably install my own cable. ;)
I guess there are estimates and figures for the cost to install cable to the home?
There are, but I have no idea of them, unfortunately. :( If you ask over on ThinkBroadband, there's a few BT engineers around who might be able to help.
Certainly would be interesting to see if they let you!
Search for "Excess Construction charges (http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/public/current/Excess_Construction_boo/2-1319_d0e1.htm)", for a breakdown of Openreach's price structure. Probably in the £5k+ region for 100m.
AAISP (http://clueless.aaisp.net.uk/etherquote.cgi) give rough quotes for site to site Ethernet.
That's, umm... enlightening. I've just been quoted over £11,000 to have fibre laid on! :)
Quote from: Simon on Aug 22, 2009, 14:34:49
That's, umm... enlightening. I've just been quoted over £11,000 to have fibre laid on! :)
£11,000 :eek4: I would never pay to have fibre laid, the internet is not worth that much to me, you could do a lot with £11,000 that would be more fun
Absolutely!
Just made a check...
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 3068 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 888 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2825 kbps ???
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2370 kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 10.97:25.65:63.38 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.
The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.
Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.
So, no improvement and new information... anyone can clarify..?
Not really sure what you mean. Is it the profile you're questioning?
If it is, we've been seeing a few odd ones which are not on BT's list since WBC.
The odd profile has been for a while... still ??? (maybe it's a WBC-induced thing) but the "pass the buck" comment about "...results of this test will vary on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes". Dunno (xcuse my ignorance) if there is anything which might hint to performance-related ISP configurantion bits in this comment (on reading "...the way your ISP..")
I've not seen that before, so I'm only guessing that they might relate to business (premium) lines against standard domestic ones, but we need to find out from support.
Good possibility, Rik, but that comment coming from BT looks, ejem... such a "sorry mate, it's not about us, check with your ISP..." thing that I wonder. Would be good to know what the heck it means.
I'll try and find out tomorrow.
There was a PC Pro (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/206226/21cn-the-21st-century-nightmare) article published over a year ago now, that outlined the different levels of traffic management available on 21CN WBC connections:
QuoteOne of the less-publicised (and perhaps most disturbing) consequences of the new network is that BT will be offering different tiers of bandwidth, or "quality of service" options, as BT Wholesale puts it. These are:
Real Time - This is the maximum possible bandwidth available on a line, where the customer doesn't necessarily need to guarantee every packet of data arrives but wants them to arrive as fast as possible. This option will be of most interest to gamers seeking minimum latency, those looking to run business VoIP services, video conferencing and other "real-time" events.
QuoteAssured Rate - This is a guaranteed bandwidth of 2Mb/sec that can be activated "on request" for specific, short periods of time. Aimed at businesses that want to guarantee bandwidth for specific applications during busy periods or consumers wanting to use video on-demand services. BT offers Assured Rate to its BT Vision customers to ensure they can achieve decent video streaming.
Best Effort - Or, perhaps more accurately, "the leftovers". This is the best possible speed remaining after the two premium services. However, even this will be divided into two packages: Elevated Best Effort and Standard Best Effort. "For every three [data] packets of Elevated that get through, you get two packets of Standard," explained Entanet's Blessing. "You'll pay 50% more and get a 50% better service."
Thanks, Dujas. :karma:
Back in town after a biz trip decided to check the status...
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 4440 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 888 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2825 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2422 kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 14.29:22.87:62.84 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.
The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.
Any ideas as to why the big wedge..?
No. I've never seen that tester output and, when I asked support, neither had they. That said, speeds are still being hit by BT's ongoing work which is always due to be completed 'by the end of the week'. My throughput has dropped to 2/3rds of my profile this week, and it's showing no signs of recovering yet. :(
Just reading the article on BT in last week's Economist suggests why what happens, happens when BT is involved.
Got a link?
Here
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14258068&CFID=77752414&CFTOKEN=95909759
Not technology related, but it gives an idea of why things are going pear-shaped...
Great read, thanks. :karma:
Hi folks
After some time being away, decided to check what's going on.
BT Speedtest NOW shows...
Download speedachieved during the test was - 4111 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :6191 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 776 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 4520 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 19.46:20.14:60.4 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.
The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.
So, it has improved quite a lot :) but still do not understand why the IP profile is so below the connection rate. Views..?
Ed
The IP profile is wrong for the sync. I believe it should be 5000k. If it doesn't shift, let IDNet know and they can get it reset manually.
What Sebby said, Ed.
Quote from: Gary on Aug 22, 2009, 15:36:46
£11,000 :eek4: I would never pay to have fibre laid, the internet is not worth that much to me, you could do a lot with £11,000 that would be more fun
Um... Er... Was I the only one thinking "well, that's cheap!" In perspective though. Not that I would personally pay that much, the internet is not that important.
I could see a company that needs it paying for it though.
I might pay it if I knew I was going to stay in a place for long enough.
Update..! Guess how it's going :mad:
--- DSL Information ---
DSL Driver Version: AnnexA version - A2pB022g.d20e
DSL VPI/VCI: 0/38
DSL Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
DSL Mode: ADSL2
DSL Channel: FAST
DSL Upstream Rate: 784 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 2720 Kbps
Down up
DSL Noise Margin: 6.0 dB 8.7 dB
DSL Attenuation: 42.5 dB 24.6 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm 12.9 dBm
This is just so unstable... my neighbour downstairs has BT broadband and gets 7 Mbps solid. BT..!
Oh well...
Arghhh...
--- DSL Information ---
DSL Driver Version: AnnexA version - A2pB022g.d20e
DSL VPI/VCI: 0/38
DSL Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
DSL Mode: ADSL2+
DSL Channel: FAST
DSL Upstream Rate: 872 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 4498 Kbps
Down up
DSL Noise Margin: 10.3 dB 7.9 dB
DSL Attenuation: 44.0 dB 23.3 dB
DSL Transmit Power: 0.0 dBm 12.9 dBm
So this connection behaves like a yo-yo :rant2:
It must be noisy if it's resyncing that frequently.
There is nothing that leads me to believe that, but then I don't have constantly my ear on the phone :D
Went today through all the wiring, connections... nothing shows up, maybe the filters packing-up..?
Frustrating to say the least, esp. when my neighbour downstairs gets 7 Mbps out of... BT..!
Only two things trigger resyncs, noise or error count. To a great extent the two can be considered the same. It doesn't matter that you can't hear it, the noise that matters is in the MW RF band (unless there's a fault on the line). To put it in perspective, my line has a 3db target noise margin (new with WBC) and is stable at that, with a 2db 'swing' across the day. It might be worth trying a different router, or forcing a resync at night, when noise is at its highest.
Good tip, will try tonite and see where it all ends...
:karma:
Thanks. Syncing at night should give you the maximum stability, albeit at a lower speed.