IDNetters Forums

Technical News & Discussion => IDNet Help => Topic started by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 08:25:26

Title: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 08:25:26
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 21735 kbps 1235 kbps
Line Attenuation 16.0 db 6.7 db
Noise Margin 6.1 db 6.7 db

IF it stays like this I'll be well chuffed!

Will let you know how it goes over the coming week or so and once it's settled down I hope to post in the WBC succesful connections thread.

The BT engineer must have been on some serious overtime as he upgraded our line at around 12.30am!
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: DAB Badboy on Jun 13, 2009, 08:52:13
Just out of curiosity, do you know your line length  ..?

I hope to go up to 24 meg next Spring and am hoping for something similar here (based on my current 8 Meg connection with a 1.5 k line length).
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 09:27:14
Not sure on my line strength to be honest but these are the full downstream stats from Routerstats;

Noise Margin:     6.2   dB
Connection Rate:  21707  Kbps
Line Attenuation: 16.0  dB
Power:            0.0  dBm
Max Rate:         24588  Kbps

SF:               236985
SF Errors:        473
Reed Solomon:     0
RS Corrected:     0
RS Un-Corrected:  0
HEC:              433
Errored Seconds:  382
Severe ES:        16
Interleave Depth: 1
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 09:32:52
Line length is about 1.5-2km. Many BT migrations are done on the night shift, it's easier for BT to work when there's little traffic and fewer people likely to complain. ;)
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 09:46:40
Just one little hiccup so far.

Currently synced as follows;

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 21707 kbps 1203 kbps
Line Attenuation 16.0 db 6.7 db
Noise Margin 6.2 db 6.4 db
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 09:48:20
That's just the normal settling of the line, you'll probably see a few more over the coming days. :)
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 09:49:41
Will be interesting to see what happens this evening when it gets busier.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 09:50:51
Let's put it this way, you've probably already seen the fastest sync speed you will ever get. :) Have you done a speed test yet?
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 09:59:10
I have done a speedtest using thinkbroadbands test and it came back as 14mb downstream. Haven't been able to get onto BT's yet as it reckons it's busy  :eyebrow:
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 10:00:35
Try http://www.speedtest.net/
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 10:23:15
I don't use speedtest.net....it's awful and bugged to, well...er buggery!

I'll do one in a bit. Just downloading a 1.2gb file on my xbox.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 10:25:53
Well, that shouldn't take long. ;D
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 10:29:51
(http://speed.io/pics/2116/0556/speed.io.png) (http://www.speed.io)

Download is about the same as I've always had but upload and ping seem pretty good.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 10:31:56
I wonder if your profile hasn't shifted?
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 10:32:41
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 10:31:56
I wonder if your profile hasn't shifted?

Could be. Once I can get onto BT I'll post the result from there.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Sebby on Jun 13, 2009, 13:18:33
It does sound like a profile problem.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 14:35:13
Just got back home to find that I'm now synced at 21803, so it's gone up  :dunno:
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 14:39:39
BT site still busy allegedly! So I did another Speed.io test

(http://speed.io/pics/2116/6790/speed.io.png) (http://www.speed.io)

Everything is spot on except that download speed.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Sebby on Jun 13, 2009, 14:40:28
Quote from: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 14:39:39
BT site still busy allegedly!

Keep trying!
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 14:57:34
If it is the profile is that something that will be changed automatically or will I need to give IDNet a quick ring on Monday?

(OK, I'll own up, I have left a message on their out of ours number but said it wasn't urgent  ;))
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:29:35
They won't touch that till Monday, Jonathan. :) It may be a stuck profile, in which case give them a ring if it hasn't changed by Monday, but ideally get some BT test results first.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 17:39:34
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:29:35
They won't touch that till Monday, Jonathan. :) It may be a stuck profile, in which case give them a ring if it hasn't changed by Monday, but ideally get some BT test results first.

I'll try but every time I try BT it says "test error - the system is currently busy". I've never had an issues with it before.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 17:45:10
Try doing it from IE if you're not already.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 17:58:41
Yah...using IE8
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 17:59:13
 :dunno:
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 20:24:21
Finally been able to get onto the BT speedtest.

Looks like a stuck profile  :-\



Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
   Your DSL connection rate: 21803 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  1231 kbps(UP-STREAM)
   IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
   Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6569 kbps

Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 13, 2009, 22:37:32
Just rebooted my router as I hadn't done that since the regrade...

(http://speed.io/pics/2117/7936/speed.io.png) (http://www.speed.io)

Perhaps my profile will gradually go up over the next few days? I'll not trouble IDNet just yet  :P
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 00:08:48
Got back onto the BT speedchecker after the 3 hour wait. Looks like the router reboot did the trick.

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 20911 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  1227 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 18000 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 11772 kbps


Looks like that's pretty much the maximum I'll get. Not sure why the throughput is 7mb less than my profile but all the BT/IDNet tests suggested I'd get around 11mb.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Sebby on Jun 14, 2009, 00:21:22
You'll always lose a bit in overheads, but that does look a bit low. It might be worth having a look at your MTU and RWIN.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 00:29:30
Quote from: Sebby on Jun 14, 2009, 00:21:22
You'll always lose a bit in overheads, but that does look a bit low. It might be worth having a look at your MTU and RWIN.

I may well do Sebby. MTU is set at 1458 on the router. No idea about the RWIN.

I think I'll just leave it well alone for a few days and let it all settle down before I start messing around with it. If it stays like this I would have doubled my throughput, and trebled my upload speed which is pretty darn good really.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 09:17:56
Looks like it's getting there, unless of course the result's a little false because everyone's still in bed :)

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
   Your DSL connection rate: 20911 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  1227 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 18000 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 15751 kbps


ThinkBroadband speedtest:

Speed Down 16721.87 Kbps ( 16.3 Mbps )
Speed Up 1035.99 Kbps ( 1 Mbps )


Line is very stable with just one or two re-syncs early yesterday when I first started using the new service.

Think I'll post is the succesfull conections thread in a day or two.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 10:01:07
 :fingers:

Looking good, Jonathan.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 10:01:30
Quote from: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 00:29:30
I may well do Sebby. MTU is set at 1458 on the router. No idea about the RWIN.

I think I'll just leave it well alone for a few days and let it all settle down before I start messing around with it. If it stays like this I would have doubled my throughput, and trebled my upload speed which is pretty darn good really.

Open it to 1500. :)
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 10:21:54
So I need to take into consideration the overheads in the MTU setting, or do I just change it to 1500?

I've done a test and 1472 is the max MTU size that doesn't need fragmenting on the ping test, so adding the overheads to that gives me 1500 :)

What about the network adaptor on my laptop?
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 10:23:39
Set the router to 1500, make any adjustments inside Windows. I'd start at 1500 and work down if you need to.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 10:29:58
I've set the router to 1500. It's on the WAN setup page on my netgear.

If it's not right what sort of behaviour would I notice?

With the MTU set to 1458 beforehand, was it too small I take it, or did it just mean I wasn't making the most of my router?
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 10:34:54
The MTU controls the packet size, so the smaller it is, the more packets are required for a given quantity of data. As each packet has overheads and has to be processed, this slows things down. However... if the packet size (MTU) is more than can be handled by your connection at any point, the packets get defragmented and transmission becomes slower. On IDNet, I generally find 1500 works best, some people have had better results at 1458. On AOL, you'd need to use 1430.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Sebby on Jun 14, 2009, 11:11:41
You don't need to adjust the MTU for overheads, just take it into consideration. For example, if you can use an MTU of 1472 without packets being fragmented, you should set an MTU of 1500 (1472 + 28 for overheads).
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 11:46:55
Quote from: Sebby on Jun 14, 2009, 11:11:41
You don't need to adjust the MTU for overheads, just take it into consideration. For example, if you can use an MTU of 1472 without packets being fragmented, you should set an MTU of 1500 (1472 + 28 for overheads).

Nice...thanks guys.

I did a ping test with a packet size of 1473 and it had to be fragmented, whereas 1472 was fine. So I've set the MTU on the router to 1500. So it seems the best thing is to set the MTU as big as you can to make the most of the network?

I've also checked the Microsoft site for xbox live and that needs a minimum MTU of 1368 so that's cool.

Have a karma the pair of you! :karma:
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Lance on Jun 14, 2009, 11:57:15
Quote from: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 11:46:55
So it seems the best thing is to set the MTU as big as you can to make the most of the network?

Spot on!
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 11:57:23
If it works at 1500 then that's the best size, Jonathan, and it does for most people. :thnks:
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 12:24:31
Quote from: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 11:57:23
If it works at 1500 then that's the best size, Jonathan, and it does for most people. :thnks:

It seems to work fine :)

Although it looks like there's been a re-sync sometime this morning. I've been busy on and off so the laptop's been sleeping!

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 19690 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  1225 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 17000 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 15171 kbps

Doesn't seem to have affected the throughput though. In fact I have a feeling the line is going to settle at around this mark.

Line stats:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 19690 kbps 1225 kbps
Line Attenuation 16.0 db 6.8 db
Noise Margin 8.5 db 6.3 db
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 12:26:14
You've got some headroom on the noise margin, so I wonder if the target has been set to 9db? It might be worth running Routerstats so you can see what the margin is immediately after a re-sync.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 12:35:07
I've got it running at the moment. NM is 8.5 currently.

I don't mind if it's been set to 9db. It's not affecting the speed adversly and gives me a little room for manouvre.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 12:37:46
It could explain the re-sync this morning, turning interleaving on (step one) or raising the target NM (step 2) will both trigger a re-sync and are done in response to the error count on the line.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 12:52:50
According to routerstats the interleave depth on the downstream side is now 96!?  :dunno:

But at the bottom of the telnet page it says interleave is off.

Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 12:53:37
I didn't know Routerstats could find interleave depth, tbh.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 13:04:58
From the downstream;

Noise Margin:     8.6   dB
Connection Rate:  19690  Kbps
Line Attenuation: 16.0  dB
Power:            0.0  dBm
Max Rate:         24452  Kbps

SF:               790983
SF Errors:        237
Reed Solomon:     202491852
RS Corrected:     30033
RS Un-Corrected:  19291
HEC:              221
Errored Seconds:  432
Severe ES:        7
Interleave Depth: 96
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 13:08:42
Intriguing. As far as I know, there are only 5 levels of interleave and WBC.  :dunno: Perhaps it's a measure of the time delay or something similar?
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Sebby on Jun 14, 2009, 13:20:34
Quote from: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 11:46:55
Nice...thanks guys.

I did a ping test with a packet size of 1473 and it had to be fragmented, whereas 1472 was fine. So I've set the MTU on the router to 1500. So it seems the best thing is to set the MTU as big as you can to make the most of the network?

I've also checked the Microsoft site for xbox live and that needs a minimum MTU of 1368 so that's cool.

Have a karma the pair of you! :karma:

Exactly right. Thanks for the karma. :)
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 13:34:38
Cool...time to let things settle down then.

Reckon I can post in the succesful connections thread yet? ;)
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Steve on Jun 14, 2009, 13:35:37
So there's no such thing as fastpath on ADSL2+ just levels of interleave settings?
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 13:42:36
Quote from: stevethegas on Jun 14, 2009, 13:35:37
So there's no such thing as fastpath on ADSL2+ just levels of interleave settings?

Not sure to be honest. Routerstats still tells me interleave is off on the bottom of the telnet page. Yet it gives different interleave depths on the downstream and upstream sections.

Whoooo, just noticed this is my 100th post! Surely that's worth some karma!  :whistle:
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Sebby on Jun 14, 2009, 16:58:08
Quote from: stevethegas on Jun 14, 2009, 13:35:37
So there's no such thing as fastpath on ADSL2+ just levels of interleave settings?

I think there is still a fastpath equivalent, but it's referred to as an interleaving level.
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 17:19:36
Quote from: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 13:42:36
Whoooo, just noticed this is my 100th post! Surely that's worth some karma!  :whistle:

That leaves you needing about 103,200 more then.  :evil: :karma:
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: PuncH on Jun 14, 2009, 20:09:20
Quote from: Rik on Jun 14, 2009, 17:19:36
That leaves you needing about 103,200 more then.  :evil: :karma:

bwahah! that'll take me years!  :eek4:
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 15, 2009, 09:16:26
It took me years too. :)
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: g7pkf on Jun 15, 2009, 20:08:35
Rik is there an avatar for "vomitting all over computer?".....


shouldnt moan at least when i need to do big downloads i get 70Mb up and download speed...trouble is my laptop is getting full :)

wish i could have 8-10Mb at home i would be happy then....


and no you should get minus karma for being smug :)
Title: Re: Oh my word...
Post by: Rik on Jun 16, 2009, 11:16:51
 ;D

Just wait till they WBC you, Dean  :evil: