Having found in recent times that my tried, tested and well loved Single SSID 2Wire BT2700HGV BT Business Hub has become subject to the "12 day reboot" phenomenon, despite having the BT software version 5.29.107.19 in it, I bit the bullet, dug deep into my pocket and paid the princely sum of 99p + p&p for a brand new boxed and sealed 2Wire Dual SSID BT2700HGV BT Business Hub complete with all the associated bits and pieces. :thumb:
Today it arrived on the next day delivery service my eBay seller offered in his auction and it is it just as described with both a WEP key and a WPA key on the Serial Number label on the underside of the router. I powered it up and held in the Reset button for a count of 30 and then plugged the ethernet cable that came with it between one of its four ethernet ports and the ethernet LAN port on my old XP machine. This done I booted the XP box and went straight into the Summary Page and saw the information below but with the serial number displayed that I have removed before showing it on a public forum.
System Summary
System
Model: BT2700HGV
Serial Number:
MAC Address: --:--:--:--:--:--
Hardware Version: 2701-100589-005
Hardware Options: Wireless present
DSL Modem Type: ADSL
Current Software: 5.29.117.6
DSL Modem: 7.2.6
Configuration
Key Code: 528Y-27G4-A222-22BJ-B22V
System Time: Retrieving date and time settings from the Internet...
Time Since Last Boot: 0 days 00: 09: 19
Last ID Post: Thursday, January 1, 1970
00:00:00 AM
From what I have read the version of software I see above is vulnerable to BT's imposed upgrade to version 6 over which I have little control.
Is this correct?
I also understand that should this upgrade happen that I should still be able to use this Dual SSID Router with IDNet. I trust this is correct too.
I have read about the intricate process that is involved to get this working compared to what I have done previously with my version 5 software and found it a little daunting but I am sure you guys will get me through it when the time comes. :)
For this evening I shall satisfy myself by getting my IDNet credentials, router access password and other setting done but I won't be connecting it on-line this evening because as dusk approaches I know my sync speed would be down at least 500 kbps and as I have 3520 kbps at the moment I don't want to jeopardise it unnecessarily.
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OK since writing the above information I have been to my XP machine and put my configuration settings into my new Dual SSID 2700HGV Router.
To do this I followed Alan's (Kinmel's) instruction towards the top of this Child Board and all went well but with this version of the BT software there was no no Remote Management box to remove the tick from at the Firewall Advanced Settings page.
This done I wanted to double check that my IDNet credentials were in so I used this URL:
http://gateway.2wire.net/xslt?PAGE=J05&THISPAGE=J15&NEXTPAGE=J05
to check and see.
Sure enough my user name looked OK so I guess my password is too but I noticed VCI was 35 not 38 and that the Encapsulation setting was Bridged whereas I use Routed VC-Mux in the older Single SSID Router so I decided to change them but like with the Single SSID router the Submit button would not work and I had to use the line: javascript:document.pagepost.submit()
in my brower's address bar to get these changed setting to take.
I now wonder if this change to these two settings was strictly necessary so I would be interested to hear from anyone who knows for sure.
I think I have my new router ready to connect to my ADSL line but it is dark now so I won't be doing it tonight.
I will post again when I have got it connected.
This modem will eventually update to firmware V6 unless you change the acs_url using Simon's method (http://bt2700hgv.tripod.com/ir1002700HGVbtV5editACSurl.htm) ( There is an unconfirmed report that upgrades have been suspended since mid March 09 )
There are still problems using V6 to connect to non-BT ISPs, but progress is being made on developing a foolproof method to do so. Again Simon and Tripod (http://bt2700hgv.tripod.com/ir1002700HGVbtV6setup.htm) lead the field on methodology
V6 has a number of known bugs for which no work around is available.
Enhanced Services ( Parental Control and Access Control ) can now be re-enabled on routers with Firmwares BT 5.29.107. 12 and BT 5.29.117.6 - with 5.29.107.12 the acs_url first needs to be changed to https://pbthdm.bt.motive.com/cwmpWeb/CPEMgt and on both Firmwares the Provisioning Code changed to 528Y-2374-A222-22BJ-B2QA. The enhanced services will re-appear shortly afterwards.
:thnks: for putting all the links together here in one place in this thread for me Alan.
I have followed at least some of them already but have no experience of the Brower Opera so hold this aspect in a little awe.
Any thoughts on the fact that after the Factory reset VCI was 35 not 38 as mentioned above in this version of the 2700?
Quote from: LesD on Apr 15, 2009, 20:53:04
Any thoughts on the fact that after the Factory reset VCI was 35 not 38 as mentioned above in this version of the 2700?
Except when using the Manual Provisioning Code, the DSL, ATM and Connection Type options are pre-set by the specific Provisioning Code selected. BT's Codes automatically over-ride any user choices with VCI = 38, ATM ENC = Routed VC-Mux and a PPPoA connection type,; so those entries shown on the page are irrelevant.
The Remote Management is also irrelevant since you don't use BT support for assistance :thumb:
Ah my ignorance is showing now! :blush:
Quote from: kinmel on Apr 15, 2009, 23:12:08
BT's Codes automatically over-ride any user choices with VCI = 38, ATM ENC = Routed VC-Mux and a PPPoA connection type,; so those entries shown on the page are irrelevant.
I simply saw these setting in my IDNet Customer Account area and thought they had to be used. :dunno:
Quote from: kinmel on Apr 15, 2009, 23:12:08
The Remote Management is also irrelevant since you don't use BT support for assistance :thumb:
I made sure this one was not ticked in my original single SSID 2700, when I first heard about automatic updates to v6 early on and read something Simon posted along the lines that it might stop it happening. I have read since that it does not but knowing I had the box in my v5 I noticed that it had gone in v6. As usual I expect I am playing catch up or simply had one of those "senior moments" I find that I am using as an excuse for a lot of things these days! ;)
Well having read all the useful advice you have once again provided for me in this thread and others today I have downloaded and installed Opera on my old XP box and done the deed having seen what you say below I have to concur.
Quote from: kinmel on Apr 16, 2009, 08:35:19
Follow the guide and it is a simple process; be sure to use https://gw-5-29-117.cwmp.cms.2wire.com as the new acs_url.
One surprise was that having logged out and then back in again the extra bits in, Advanced – Configure Services -- Routing were no longer visible but at Advanced – Provisioning Information -- Server Set Configuration I could see that the change was still there so I guess this is as it should be.
Once again I am reluctant to try this new router on -line at this time of day because I know that if I do I will take a hit on my IP Profile so it will have to wait until tomorrow but fear not I will post again when there is more to tell. :)
Quote from: LesD on Apr 16, 2009, 19:35:37
I made sure this one was not ticked in my original single SSID 2700, when I first heard about automatic updates to v6 early on and read something Simon posted along the lines that it might stop it happening. I have read since that it does not but knowing I had the box in my v5 I noticed that it had gone in v6.
In my last post the above should read:
QuoteI made sure this one was not ticked in my original single SSID 2700, when I first heard about automatic updates to v6 early on and read something Simon posted along the lines that it might stop it happening. I have read since that it does not but knowing I had the box in my v5.29.107.19 I noticed that it had gone in v5.29.117.6.
:oops: Sorry about that! :blush: Another senior moment!
Yes, and sorry about the misleading reference to the Remote Management tick box. I did only pass it as a suggestion, as it seemed logical, but I don't think any harm is done either way. :)
Quote from: Simon on Apr 16, 2009, 21:36:08
Yes, and sorry about the misleading reference to the Remote Management tick box. I did only pass it as a suggestion, as it seemed logical, but I don't think any harm is done either way. :)
Certainly not Simon no worries on that score. Any port in a storm as they say and it certainly looked worth a try at the time! :thumb:
We can all be wiser after the event when more and better information come to light.
I can certainly concur with Alan, that the editing process using Opera is a straighforward one for anyone with reservations but be it on your own head, as they say, if you do decide to give it ago. :)
For the 99p + p&p that I paid I was certainly up for it, especially with a couple of functional Single SSID ones and my original Netgear DG834 "Mk1" to fall back on! ;D
Here are some figures from the 2Wire Dual SSID BT2700HGV now that I have it connected to IDNet and in full service.
DSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3136 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 3136 kbs 1068 kbs
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin: 16.0 dB 26.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.1 dB 26.0 dB
Current Output Power: 19.0 dBm 11.9 dBm
I lost 384 kbps with the resync despite leaving it until late morning!
I notice that the noise margin "Down" is being reported at about 1 dB higher than with the older Single SSID router.
Here is a cut and paste from the "Advanced – Provisioning Information" taken from under:
Server Set Configuration
periodic_enabled 1
periodic_base 0
periodic_interval 86400
acs_url https://gw-5-29-117.cwmp.cms.2wire.com
acs_username
acs_passwd 2wiregateway
keycode 528Y-27G4-A222-22BJ-B22V
bootstrapped_keycode
css_url css://css.cms.2wire.com:3428
pkgset_active 0
pkgset_url
This shows the modified ACS URL that I changed last evening using the Opera script editing technique from Simon at Tripod as recommended by Alan. :thumb:
I found that my older single-SSID gave me higher sync speeds, Les, but with the 12-day re-boot problem. Individual modems do seem to have their own performance characteristics, more so than on other brands.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 17, 2009, 15:34:41
I found that my older single-SSID gave me higher sync speeds, Les, but with the 12-day re-boot problem. Individual modems do seem to have their own performance characteristics, more so than on other brands.
Yes I recall minor differences between the two Single SSID ones I got about this time last year.
I went for a reboot earlier this afternoon and got a sync of 3424 kbps so if I can hold this I should get back to an IP Profile of 3500 kbps in a day or three.
I have just run a BT Speed Test and obtained the result below so it looks promising.
The other speed tests I have run this afternoon at BBMax have been a bit up and down and my pings are up in the 70's whereas normally at that site I see 53 ms. I wouldn't have thought that this could be anything to do with the new Router though. :dunno:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 3424 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2044 kbps
3424 will only get you 3M, Les, you need 4000 sync to get 3.5M.
The 16dB SNR is way too high, is it deliberately set that high by BT ?
It could be DLM at work, Alan.
Quote from: kinmel on Apr 17, 2009, 18:01:40
The 16dB SNR is way too high, is it deliberately set that high by BT ?
Having been at 12 dB from the time I got my 2Wire it seemed to jump to 15 dB last Summer time after one odd "noise" event. After a while I asked IDNet to get BT to reduce it and we went for a figure of 9 dB but not long after BT had set it to 9 dB it went back up to 15 dB. :(
Quote from: Rik on Apr 17, 2009, 17:51:56
3424 will only get you 3M, Les, you need 4000 sync to get 3.5M.
With 12 dB I could sync at over 4000 kbps most of the time and get the IP Profile Rik has corrected me about, I should have said I was hoping to get back to 3000 kbps not 3500! :blush:
The problem with my line/exchange is that during the evening after dusk has fallen my noise margin drops by 5 to 6 dB to 10 dB. It is this big change that seems to be an issue for me because the line attenuation is not too bad compared to some people's that I have seen.
I wonder if there's an industrial plant along the route of the cable, Les? That 15db NM target suggest some fairly intensive noise bursts. I also wonder whether an RF filter might help you, if BT could be persuaded to fit one...
Quote from: Rik on Apr 17, 2009, 18:31:06
I wonder if there's an industrial plant along the route of the cable, Les? That 15db NM target suggest some fairly intensive noise bursts. I also wonder whether an RF filter might help you, if BT could be persuaded to fit one...
Nothing industrial between my and the exchange that I am aware of but the Police Headquarters with a tall mast and lots of aerials is en route.
I don't know if such transmitters still use rectified AC for DC power but I know big radio ones did in years gone by so that's what I glare at when I go by. ;)
Have you told IDNet about that, Les? As I say, a little part of me is wondering whether a BT RF filter might be the answer.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 17, 2009, 18:38:00
Have you told IDNet about that, Les? As I say, a little part of me is wondering whether a BT RF filter might be the answer.
No I haven't mentioned it to IDNet. I thought it was just a bit of my paranoia! ;D
I didn't know that BT fitted RF filters. You learn something new every day! :thumb:
I will see how I get on with this Dual SSID Router. If I can get past the 12 days maybe the noise margin will improve. From what I read if you can hold sync for 14 days the noise margin should come down by 3 dB. Being stuck with 12 day reboots I haven't made it to 14 days for months now.
Just got this (http://speed.io/pics/1943/0083/speed.io.png) at speed.io
I know that 12 day feeling. Luckily, I've never had a NM issue to make it a problem.
Quote from: Rik on Apr 18, 2009, 09:17:27
I know that 12 day feeling. Luckily, I've never had a NM issue to make it a problem.
Day one is done of hopefully twelve plus and many more at a sync of 3424 kbps with my new Dual SSID 2700 Router.
I have my :fingers: that if I can get passed the14 day mark that BT's DLM might work in my favour for a change. As usual time will tell. :)
Well it took six days but I finally got my 3000 kbps IP Profile back by yesterday.
This evening I have just done a BT Speed Test with the following result:
QuoteTest1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 3424 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 3000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2784 kbps
I have now held sync with this new Dual SSID 2Wire Router for 7 days and almost 4 hours so :fingers: that I can get past 14 days. :)
It's looking promising, Les. I'll join you in a :fingers:
And me... :fingers:
Thanks guys! :)
The tension is building as the 12 days (300 hours) mark is approaching with my new Dual SSID 2700 Router.
System Time: Tuesday, April 28, 2009
08:07:22 PM
GMT Daylight Time
Time Since Last Boot: 11 days 05: 27: 24
The sync rate has hung in there at 3424 kbps to just allow me to get an IP Profile of 3000 kbps
DSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3424 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 3424 kbs 1072 kbs
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin: 13.0 dB 26.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.1 dB 27.0 dB
Current Output Power: 19.0 dBm 11.9 dBm
I have my :fingers: that I can hang on to this rate for a few more days at least to see if it will bring down the Noise margin at the start of connection to 12 dB.
:fingers:
:fingers: :fingers: I used to have a reminder pop up every 11th evening to shut the router down overnight - though that wouldn't help your problem, Les.
Eureka! :thumb:
System Time: Thursday, April 30, 2009
06:41:11 PM
GMT Daylight Time
Time Since Last Boot: 13 days 04: 01: 14
Over 316 hours and holding up with the sync shown below:
DSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3424 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 3424 kbs 1072 kbs
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin: 14.0 dB 26.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.1 dB 27.0 dB
Current Output Power: 19.1 dBm 11.9 dBm
It looks like my Dual SSID 2700HGV has sorted out the 12 day boot issue for me.
Why this became an issue for me with my single SSID 2700HGV with its BT version 5.29.107.19 remains a mystery. :dunno:
Having substituted this: acs_url https://gw-5-29-117.cwmp.cms.2wire.com
down in the Advanced Provisioning Server Configuration I have my :fingers: for a more stable and consistent connection at least for a while.
As usual time will tell.
We'll keep everything crossed for you, Les, only another 24 hours or so and you should get a target NM reduction of 3db. :fingers:
Quote from: Rik on Apr 30, 2009, 18:50:15
We'll keep everything crossed for you, Les, only another 24 hours or so and you should get a target NM reduction of 3db. :fingers:
Does this happen automatically (assuming it does) or will it only show up after a reboot whenever the next one occurs?
It will only show after a re-boot, since it's the target NM which is changed, Les.
I don't mean to be negative, but don't get your hopes up too much - it often doesn't happen, even though it should in theory. If it doesn't, it might be worth a call to IDNet as they can sometimes get BT to drop it manually.
Quote from: Sebby on Apr 30, 2009, 23:29:16
I don't mean to be negative, but don't get your hopes up too much - it often doesn't happen, even though it should in theory.
Yes I had heard of this before and that is what promted the
Quote(assuming it does)
in my last post. :(
The Dual SSID 2700 has definitely cracked the 12 day reboot issue:
System Time: Tuesday, May 5, 2009
08:27:12 AM
GMT Daylight Time
Time Since Last Boot: 17 days 17: 47: 15
but with my "just enough" sycn of 3424 kbps I haven't risked a reboot yet!
I know how you feel, Alan, I get very wary of a re-boot when I have a decent sync.
I took a reboot in the daylight hours today but still lost 500 kbps from my IP Profile. :(
DSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3296 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 3296 kbs 1076 kbs
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin: 12.0 dB 26.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.3 dB 27.0 dB
Current Output Power: 18.8 dBm 11.9 dBm
but hey presto the noise margin is down to 12dB :thumb:
I waited 18 days but maybe the 14 would have been enough.
Even with 12 dB I only managed to sync at 3296 kbps though.
I guess it could be the Dual SSID syncing at lower speeds than the Single SSID oneas you found Rik :dunno:
Well the main thing is that the target noise margin as reduced - that's good. :)
What time did you re-sync, Les?
Quote from: Rik on May 07, 2009, 09:26:31
What time did you re-sync, Les?
At about 3:50 PM. I would have preferred it earlier in the day but I had to have the power off to change a socket and that was what fixed the router start up and sync time. When I switch the mains on again at the distribution unit I left all other circuits off till the router was up so there was nothing in my premises causing any interference as the router had my supply all to itself!
Might be worth a re-sync in the morning, Les.
Quote from: Rik on May 07, 2009, 22:41:16
Might be worth a re-sync in the morning, Les.
Having been busy with my shower project in my pretty much all of my spare time I have left the router with its current sync of 3392 kbps and the 12 day mark is fast approaching once again:
QuoteSystem Time: Sunday, May 24, 2009
10:21:25 AM
GMT Daylight Time
Time Since Last Boot: 11 days 18: 13: 01
I feel relaxed that with this new Dual SSID 2700 that this point will pass once again without the dreaded unsolicited reboot! :)
It should, Les. :fingers:
Quote from: Rik on May 24, 2009, 10:28:37
It should, Les. :fingers:
It did. :thumb:
QuoteSystem Time: Monday, May 25, 2009
08:16:20 AM
GMT Daylight Time
Time Since Last Boot: 12 days 16: 07: 55
Fantastic! Just a couple of days to go and then the noise margin should drop again too!
Optimist. ;D
Quote from: Lance on May 25, 2009, 08:25:47
Fantastic! Just a couple of days to go and then the noise margin should drop again too!
Shan't hold my breath Lance. :dunno: I tend to share Rik's view but I have my :fingers: that you could be right. :)
I do tend to be a glass half full type of person!
I find the bottom part of the glass is always full, it's the top part which tends to get empty. :)
I used to be, 'it's time for another pint' type of guy
Ah, you've moved to shorts have you? ;D
Only in the summer. ;)
:lol:
I just knew that was coming. ;D
;D
Tut tut, all :admin: completely off topic in a technical thread! :no:
Surely you wouldn't expect anything less. ;D
Quote from: Sebby on May 26, 2009, 22:22:43
Surely you wouldn't expect anything less. ;D
I guess not. ;D
Here I am at 7:40 PM with the noise margin still at its initial target value of 15 dB after 18 days with a perfectly stable connection.
Maybe it's time to ask IDNET to see if they can get BT to drop the noise margin manually by 3 dB to 12 dB as I think this would enable me to get my IP Profile up from the present value of 2500 kbps to 3000 kbps. What say you guys?
Details follow below:
QuoteSystem Time: Saturday, May 30, 2009
06:39:06 PM
GMT Daylight Time
Time Since Last Boot: 18 days 02: 30: 41
DSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3392 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 3392 kbs 1056 kbs
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin: 15.0 dB 25.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.4 dB 27.0 dB
Current Output Power: 19.0 dBm 11.9 dBm
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 3392 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2339 kbps
It's got to be worth asking, Les. The only reason I can see for it still staying at 15db is if the error count is high.
Quote from: Rik on May 30, 2009, 18:50:23
It's got to be worth asking, Les. The only reason I can see for it still staying at 15db is if the error count is high.
Is this what you are referring to Rik?
QuoteATM Cells Errors %
Transmit: 2570319 0 0
Receive: 9919409 0 0
IP Bytes Packets Errors %
Transmit: 23568131 117883 0 0
Receive: 108080256 153461 0 0
or maybe this?
QuoteBroadband Link – Detailed DSL StatisticsCollected for 18 days 2:51:28
ATM Since Reset Current 24-Hour Interval Current 15-Minute Interval Time Since
Last Event
Cell Header Errors: 19404 2645 2 0:00:43
Loss of Cell Delineation: 4308 40 2 0:00:43
DSL
Link Retrains: 0 0 0 0:00:00
DSL Training Errors: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Training Timeouts: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Framing Failures: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Signal Failures: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Power Failures: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors: 9422 454 1 0:00:43
Cumulative Sec. w/Severe Errors: 118 26 0 1:07:09
Corrected Blocks: 163350 10676 19 0:00:13
Uncorrectable Blocks: 22013 3605 2 0:00:43
DSL Unavailable Seconds: 44 0 0 18 days 2:50:43
It looks OK to me but I am sorry to say that the format goes haywire when pasted in here.
It's OK, Les, they all do that. It looks fine to me too. Talk to support on Monday.
I take it you've tried a reboot (or on the 2700 you can just do a retrain)?
Quote from: Lance on May 30, 2009, 23:17:48
I take it you've tried a reboot (or on the 2700 you can just do a retrain)?
I haven't rebooted in the last 19 days but when I tried after the first 17 or so days I ended up with a lower sync and the same noise margin that you see prevailing now. I know it needs a reboot to get a new target noise margin but it is the doubt that I harbour that it will with the accompanying risk of an even lower sync! I don't know if or how you can retrain a 2700 maybe Alan will. :dunno:
If I could get back to 12 dB target noise margin my instinct is that I would be able to get the 3000 kbps IP Profile I used to enjoy.
I filled out a "Contact Us" form in the "my account" area last evening pointing them to posts #57 to #60 in this thread so I shall wait and see what that brings forth.
Quote from: LesD on May 31, 2009, 11:05:01
I haven't rebooted in the last 19 days but when I tried after the first 17 or so days I ended up with a lower sync and the same noise margin that you see prevailing now. I know it needs a reboot to get a new target noise margin but it is the doubt that I harbour that it will with the accompanying risk of an even lower sync! I don't know if or how you can retrain a 2700 maybe Alan will. :dunno:
Install Routerstats Lite (http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm) and keep it running minimized when you PC is on, your current SNR is displayed in the minimised icon and when it at it's highest value of the day do a DSL connection reset (http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=J21&THISPAGE=J01&NEXTPAGE=J21). This will set you connection to the highest possible sync for your target margin.
With your stats i would ask Idnet to have the target SNR reset to 6dB
Thanks for the advice Alan.
The problem I would have with a 6 dB target noise margin is that the 15 dB that I see during most of the daylight hours drop to 9 or 10 dB after dark so the 6 dB could quite easily become 0 dB after dark.
Its 8:22 PM and right now I still have 15 dB. I will try and remember to look again at about 10:30 PM when I am all but certain that the number will be significantly lower.
Quote from: LesD on May 31, 2009, 20:24:30
Thanks for the advice Alan.
The problem I would have with a 6 dB target noise margin is that the 15 dB that I see during most of the daylight hours drop to 9 or 10 dB after dark so the 6 dB could quite easily become 0 dB after dark.
Its 8:22 PM and right now I still have 15 dB. I will try and remember to look again at about 10:30 PM when I am all but certain that the number will be significantly lower.
the 2700 gives my line a 1.5meg gain over other routers, I am currently sync'd at 4704 at an attenuation of 59.7. My SNR is about 7 during the day and drops below 3 at night, yet the 2700 hangs in there and has held on at that since 4th May. Use RouterStats to try to get a sync rate just above an IP Profile change point ie above 3424, 4000, or 4544, don't aim for the very highest possible.
Maybe I was just unlucky but last year when my noise margin first went up from 12 db to 15 db and seemed to get stuck there I asked IDNet Support if they could get BT to unstick it and we agreed to ask for 9 dB. This was OK for a few days and I did get my 3000 kbps IP Profile back but it was short lived and soon went back up again to 15 dB.
The odd thing was that the jump back up was a daytime event not during the hours of darkness when things are more fragile.
The best time for a resync is in the morning as noise should be at its lowest then. To retrain the line without rebooting the router, go to here: http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=J02&THISPAGE=A02_POST&NEXTPAGE=J02 and reset broadband link.
Quote from: LesD on May 31, 2009, 22:32:47
The odd thing was that the jump back up was a daytime event not during the hours of darkness when things are more fragile.
Probably triggered by the error count, Les.
Brian at IDNET has got BT to reduce my target noise margin to 9 dB.
BT told Brian that my noise margin fluctuates. This is no surprise to me as I am well aware from my own observations of my line statistics that the noise margin is mainly predictable, namely 15 dB during daylight dropping through 12 dB at the onset of dusk to 9 dB after darkness arrives.
I shall leave the reboot until the weekend because the time I have found that I often get the best sync speed is mid morning on a Sunday.
After that I shall wait and see how things go but rest assured I will keep the forum posted! ;)
Quote from: LesD on Jun 02, 2009, 21:31:34
I shall leave the reboot until the weekend because the time I have found that I often get the best sync speed is mid morning on a Sunday.
After that I shall wait and see how things go but rest assured I will keep the forum posted! ;)
Well now I am completely gob smacked and will need this explaining to me by someone wiser than me in these matters! :dunno:
Having made my previous post I went and took a look at my Router Stats and saw this:
QuoteDSL Down Up
Current Rate: 4608 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 4608 kbs 1052 kbs
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin: 7.0 dB 25.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.6 dB 27.0 dB
Current Output Power: 19.6 dBm 11.9 dBm
I immediately though the routers been and gone and rebooted of its own accord and that usually spells out some sort of trouble but no look at the extract from the System Summary below because this shows that it has been up and connected for over 21 days.
QuoteSystem Time: Tuesday, June 2, 2009
09:37:43 PM
GMT Daylight Time
Time Since Last Boot: 21 days 05: 29: 19
How can this be?
The plus for the time being is that this is about the best connection rate I have ever seen on my line! :thumb:
It is still dusk, however, and not properly dark yet so the downside is that the target noise margin of 9 dB is already down to 7 dB.
The question is how low will it go and will the 2700 hang on to the line?
This extract from the router's DSL Diagnostics below shows that the resync occurred without a reboot.
QuoteDownstream
Time Line Rate Max1 Max2 Max3 Mgn1 Mgn2 Attn Pwr
2009/06/01 13:21:42 BST 1 3392 3392 2848 2848 15.0 15.0 41.4 19.0
2009/06/02 21:47:02 BST 1 4608 4624 3540 3540 9.1 7.0 41.6 19.6
I have been digging and delving and down in the Event Log I have found this:
QuoteINF 2009-05-30T18:35:45+01:00 sys: Successfully logged into a password protected page
INF 2009-05-31T20:22:01+01:00 sys: Successfully logged into a password protected page
INF 2009-06-01T13:21:42+01:00 sys: dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF 2009-06-02T21:37:33+01:00 sys: Successfully logged into a password protected page
So it appears that at 1:21 PM yesterday the connection went down and came back without a reboot.
Does this make sense because no one was in at that time so no PC's were on only the router?
Not sure I quite understand! Les but surely your router can resync without requiring a reboot, you can't do it manually on say a Netgear by changing from LLU based to VC based. If you have the DGTeam firmware on a Netgear you can manually resync the adsl connection without rebooting the router.
Quote from: stevethegas on Jun 02, 2009, 22:21:27
Not sure I quite understand! Les but surely your router can resync without requiring a reboot, you can't do it manually on say a Netgear by changing from LLU based to VC based. If you have the DGTeam firmware on a Netgear you can manually resync the adsl connection without rebooting the router.
Yes thanks for that Steve. I understand that you can force the 2700 to reconnect without a reboot from what Lance and others told me a few post back but can the router do it on its own or maybe it was something at the exchange end? I guess that's a possibility. I have asked Brian at IDNET Support if he can explain what has been going on so I will see what that brings tomorrow.
It's almost 10:30 PM now and pretty much dark with the street lights on and I still have the 5 dB shown below so :fingers: the 2700 will hang onto the line overnight.
QuoteDSL Down Up
Current Rate: 4608 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 4608 kbs 1052 kbs
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin: 5.0 dB 25.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.6 dB 27.0 dB
Current Output Power: 19.5 dBm 11.9 dBm
I think BT "forced" your router to renegotiate with the local exchange when they dropped your default margin on the DSLAM. Hopefully it will hang on over night. :fingers:
I agree, Steve, I've seen it happen to my line when BT increased the target NM.
Yep, that's what it sounds like.
Brian from Support took a look at Post #70 and recommended that I plug the router into the BT test socket direct and see if the noise margin still drops as darkness falls but I have been there and done that a year or so ago and it made no difference then so I am pretty sure it won't now. Since I am not inclined to break my setup down (two PC's to disconnect KVI switch and all etc) to do this test again I guess things have run there course with Support.
Alas my high connection rate was not to be. :(
At one minute past two this afternoon the connection went down and reconnected. No one was in so my house was electrially quiet:
QuoteINF 2009-06-02T21:37:33+01:00 sys: Successfully logged into a password protected page
INF 2009-06-03T14:01:38+01:00 sys: dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF 2009-06-03T21:29:28+01:00 sys: Successfully logged into a password protected page
After the reconnection I was back where I started before my target noise margin was reduced to 9 dB.
I did suspect as much, which was why I asked for 12 dB but such is life. This is what I see this evening:
QuoteDSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3392 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 3392 kbs 1052 kbs
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin: 13.0 dB 25.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.7 dB 27.0 dB
Current Output Power: 19.0 dBm 11.9 dBm
ATM Cells Errors %
Transmit: 3456384 0 0
Receive: 27406344 0 0
It is dusk again so I see 13 dB but at DSL Diagnostics I can see that target is currently 14.9 dB back up from the 9 dB that I had very briefly after BT reset it.
Last evening little adventure shows just what might have been possible but it was not to be. :(
Have a look at the routerstat log for 14.00 and see what the SNR and sync were just before the disconnect and in the router check your error rate today.
If there is nothing apparent in your stats, ask for the target to be reset again, mine took 4 resets in a month before it settled down.
Quote from: kinmel on Jun 03, 2009, 22:33:17
Have a look at the routerstat log for 14.00 and see what the SNR and sync were just before the disconnect and in the router check your error rate today.
I am not sure where it is that you are referring to Alan.
I see Noise Margin in DSL Diagnostics here:
QuoteDownstream
Time Line Rate Max1 Max2 Max3 Mgn1 Mgn2 Attn Pwr CRCs FECs INP DLY Rate Max Mgn Attn Pwr CRCs FECs
2009/06/01 13:21:42 BST 1 3392 3392 2848 2848 15.0 15.0 41.4 19.0 24391 174462
2009/06/03 14:01:39 BST 1 4608 4624 4020 4020 9.1 9.0 41.6 19.6 4453 965315
2009/06/03 22:39:57 BST 1 3392 3400 2372 2372 14.9 12.0 41.7 18.8 247 2450
And here I can see the "Link Retrains" about 8-3/4 hours ago that fits with the 14:01 event in the extract from the Event log in my previous post.
QuoteATM Since Reset Current 24-Hour Interval Current 15-Minute Interval Time Since
Last Event
Cell Header Errors: 25661 207 1 0:03:42
Loss of Cell Delineation: 6070 29 1 0:03:42
DSL
Link Retrains: 2 0 0 8:42:26
DSL Training Errors: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Training Timeouts: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Framing Failures: 4 0 0 8:42:27
Loss of Signal Failures: 4 0 0 8:42:27
Loss of Power Failures: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures: 4 0 0 8:42:27
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors: 12596 152 1 0:03:42
Cumulative Sec. w/Severe Errors: 182 0 0 8:42:27
Corrected Blocks: 1142252 2216 31 0:00:09
Uncorrectable Blocks: 29092 227 1 0:03:42
DSL Unavailable Seconds: 97 0 0 8:42:03
but I cannot see an option called routerstat log.
The Advanced Detailed Log contains this:
QuoteINF 2009-06-03T14:01:38+01:00 lmd: dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN 2009-06-03T14:01:39+01:00 lmd: qos0: admin_gen: unable to lookup clfy netdev pvc0: No such file or directory
WRN 2009-06-03T14:01:39+01:00 lmd: Previous log entry repeated 31 times
WRN 2009-06-03T14:01:40+01:00 vrsip: Broadband connection lost
INF 2009-06-03T14:02:03+01:00 lmd: dsl0: up G.DMT Annex A interleaved Rate:3392/448 Max:3392/1052
INF 2009-06-03T14:02:03+01:00 lmd: dsl0: Margin:15.0/25.0 Atten:41.7/27.0 Power:19.1/11.9
INF 2009-06-03T14:02:03+01:00 lmd: dsl0: Country: {F} Vendor: {ALCB} Specific: {0}
WRN 2009-06-03T14:02:03+01:00 lmd: qos0: admin_gen: unable to lookup clfy netdev pvc0: No such file or directory
WRN 2009-06-03T14:02:03+01:00 lmd: Previous log entry repeated 31 times
Namely the figures after the reconnect but I can't see any number for just before it! :dunno:
I sense that unless I go through the hastle of repeating the BT Test Socket procedure again Support won't want to bother BT again.
When you run RouterStats Lite you have the option to automatically save the graphs as files and that allows you to look back and see what your SNR and sync rate were at any time.
If logging is not already enabled, start RouterStats Lite, select the "Setup" tab and then the "Capture" Tab, tick all three boxes on that page and the data is then repeatedly captured to the directory specified.
QuoteIf there is nothing apparent in your stats, ask for the target to be reset again, mine took 4 resets in a month before it settled down.
I would agree with that!. It looks like the DSLAM has just reverted back to a 15db target, it shouldnt do that, if it thought the error count was too high it should at least have tried going from 9 to 12 first!!
Anyway looking at your stats there seems no reason for the resynch at 14:01 other than the DSLAM reverted to 15db. At the time of the resynch the margin was 9.0db ( as shown in Mgn2 ) and the CRC count was 4453 which is not that high!! OK, so the corrected errors are a bit high but if it tripped on that it should have tried 12db...
I wonder where the DLM software remembers the previous target NM setting and, if the error count is high or there is instability, it flips straight back to it?
Having read and digested what you say folks I have asked IDNet Support if my target noise margin can be reduced again.
:fingers: that they will humour me once more.
Quote from: LesD on Jun 04, 2009, 14:04:27
Having read and digested what you say folks I have asked IDNet Support if my target noise margin can be reduced again.
:fingers: that they will humour me once more.
Even with my :fingers: it was a no go. :(
This is the reply I have received from support:
QuoteHi Les,
>
> The margin may have changed if the line is unable to support a higher
> speed reliably. The service is dynamic and designed to be able to change
> the speed in order to try and maintain a stable connection. Whilst
> speaking with BT they confirmed the margin had been fluctuating and were
> of the opinion the margin would not remain at the level they had set it
> at, this was a difficult task in itself to get them to make this manual
> change as it has not remained at that level they will not make the
> changes a second time. Changing the margin a number of times will not
> make the margin settle at any given level.
>
Sorry, Les. I'm not surprised.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 04, 2009, 15:52:59
Sorry, Les. I'm not surprised.
I must say neither am I but I still wonder if a target of 12 dB had been set whether that would have been sustainable because it was for months on end this time last year but I guess we will never know now. :dunno:
Give it a while and try asking nicely again. ;)
I'm also not surprised. I had exactly the same thing; the exchange would not maintain a 6db margin, despite it being stable. In the end I was able to get a manual 9dB margin set.
OK my Senior Moments seem to be turning into Senior Periods :blush: as I have eventually realised that RouterStats is the program I played with back in February and had forgotten all about and not some page I couldn't find in the 2700!
So now that sanity has returned I have RouterStats the program reconfigured and running again. :thumb:
(I think it had to be configured again as a result of swapping to the Dual SSID 2700)
The log file is enabled and below is an extract from what it is currently being logged:
Quote
Thu 04 Jun 2009 21:35:56, Rx-Noise=14, Tx-Noise=25, Rx-Sync=3392, Tx-Sync=448, RxAtten=41.7, RxAtten=27.0,
Thu 04 Jun 2009 21:36:16, Rx-Noise=14, Tx-Noise=25, Rx-Sync=3392, Tx-Sync=448, RxAtten=41.7, RxAtten=27.0,
Thu 04 Jun 2009 21:36:36, Rx-Noise=14, Tx-Noise=25, Rx-Sync=3392, Tx-Sync=448, RxAtten=41.7, RxAtten=27.0,
Thu 04 Jun 2009 21:36:56, Rx-Noise=13, Tx-Noise=25, Rx-Sync=3392, Tx-Sync=448, RxAtten=41.7, RxAtten=27.0,
Thu 04 Jun 2009 21:37:16, Rx-Noise=13, Tx-Noise=25, Rx-Sync=3392, Tx-Sync=448, RxAtten=41.7, RxAtten=27.0,
(Note the fall from what I saw was 15 dB at 9 PM through 14 dB to 13 dB as dusk falls)
I have the transmit attenuation in the right hand column labelled TxAtten and it shows this correctly on my User Defined Graph but gets it wrong in the Log. Ah Well.
To obtain the maximum advantage from this program I guess my PC needs to be on 24/7 and it is normally switched off overnight and when I am out at work. The Router stays on 24/7 but I am less inclined to leave the PC on when I am not around. :no:
Maybe I will reconsider this and leave it on over the weekend. :think:
Try and run it for 24 hours if you can, Les, just shut the monitor down. It will give the most complete picture, but a 2db drop is nothing to worry about. What would be really interesting is to see the error count at the lower margin compared to the higher one. My line was throwing 1,000,000 errors a day at 6db, but that dropped to ~15,000/day at 9db. It was the error count, in my case, which caused DLM to lift the target.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 05, 2009, 08:52:57
Try and run it for 24 hours if you can, Les, just shut the monitor down. It will give the most complete picture, but a 2db drop is nothing to worry about. What would be really interesting is to see the error count at the lower margin compared to the higher one. My line was throwing 1,000,000 errors a day at 6db, but that dropped to ~15,000/day at 9db. It was the error count, in my case, which caused DLM to lift the target.
I look in the router for the error count I take it or can that be made to show in RouterStats too?
This is what I see right now at 8:10 AM 6/6/9:
QuoteDSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3392 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 3392 kbs 1052 kbs
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin: 15.0 dB 25.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.7 dB 27.0 dB
Current Output Power: 19.0 dBm 11.9 dBm
ATM Cells Errors %
Transmit: 3678039 0 0
Receive: 27898810 0 0
IP Bytes Packets Errors %
Transmit: 56755281 481850 0 0
Receive: 950085569 811605 0 0
ATM Since Reset Current 24-Hour Interval Current 15-Minute Interval Time Since
Last Event
Cell Header Errors: 27432 343 2 0:00:33
Loss of Cell Delineation: 6727 51 0 0:07:22
DSL
Link Retrains: 2 0 0 2 days 18:11:01
DSL Training Errors: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Training Timeouts: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Framing Failures: 4 0 0 2 days 18:11:02
Loss of Signal Failures: 4 0 0 2 days 18:11:02
Loss of Power Failures: 0 0 0 0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures: 4 0 0 2 days 18:11:02
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors: 13596 256 2 0:00:33
Cumulative Sec. w/Severe Errors: 193 0 0 23:10:15
Corrected Blocks: 1154894 3355 26 0:00:05
Uncorrectable Blocks: 31023 397 2 0:00:33
DSL Unavailable Seconds: 97 0 0 2 days 18:10:38
Downstream
Time Line Rate Max1 Max2 Max3 Mgn1 Mgn2 Attn Pwr CRCs FECs
2009/06/01 13:21:42 BST 1 3392 3392 2848 2848 15.0 15.0 41.4 19.0 24391 174462
2009/06/03 14:01:39 BST 1 4608 4624 4020 4020 9.1 9.0 41.6 19.6 4453 965315
2009/06/06 08:14:30 BST 1 3392 3400 2684 2684 14.9 15.0 41.7 19.0 2179 15118
Maybe it was the FECs at 965315 that scuppered the 9 dB which coupled with what you say makes me hanker after the 12 dB I wanted all along! :(
RouterStats can't show the error count, Les. My line was moved from 6-9db to reduce the error count, and it had an immediate impact, dropping them from ~1M/day to 15k/day.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 06, 2009, 09:52:55
RouterStats can't show the error count, Les. My line was moved from 6-9db to reduce the error count, and it had an immediate impact, dropping them from ~1M/day to 15k/day.
The "Get Page" I have at Configuration at the "Router Search Text" tab is this one:
http://gateway.2wire.net/xslt?PAGE=B02&THISPAGE=B04&NEXTPAGE=B02
and there are no "Errors" to pick from on it! :dunno:
I am running: RouterStats 4.8
You want:
http://gateway.2wire.net/xslt?PAGE=B04&THISPAGE=B02&NEXTPAGE=B04
Les, at least on my 2700.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 06, 2009, 12:36:39
You want:
http://gateway.2wire.net/xslt?PAGE=B04&THISPAGE=B02&NEXTPAGE=B04
Les, at least on my 2700.
Yes the page you give includes the errors OK with my 2700 too but if I use it as the login and then "Get Page" I can see and pick errors to Graph and Log but the Noise Margins, Sync Rates etc disappear!
I put the page I was previously using back and the Noise Margins, Sync Rates etc reappear.
One or the other it seems for me. Is this par for the course?
It is, Les.
I have at last today managed to sync at 3424 kbps :thumb:
DSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3424 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 3424 kbs 1048 kbs
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin: 14.0 dB 25.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.8 dB 27.0 dB
Current Output Power: 19.0 dBm 11.9 dBm
I have had Router Stats running and tried a number of times when it has looked like there has been plenty of Noise Margin headroom but never managed the elusive 3424 kpbs until this afternoon.
If I can hang on to it for three days or so I just might get my 3000 kbps IP Profile back where it used to be. Good old BT eh! ;)
It's all part of the IP profile game, Les. :)x
Wouldn't it be nice to not have to check sync everyday to ensure we don't drop a profile? BT's system really is rubbish.
Quote from: Sebby on Jun 28, 2009, 22:15:28
It's all part of the IP profile game, Les. :)x
Wouldn't it be nice to not have to check sync everyday to ensure we don't drop a profile? BT's system really is rubbish.
It's their way to throttle throughput when they are not even your ISP in my opinion. It has to be another :thumbd: for BT.
See my signature! :)
I have finally got my 3000 kpbs IP Profile back but for how long it remains to be seen, especially with the ominous threat of thunder and lighting hanging over us again! :eek4:
Everything crossed for you, Les! :)
Same here!
Back in August we had our kitchen renovated necessitating the power to be switched off an on a number of times and needless to say I lost my 3424 kbps sync. :(
It has taken me until Friday last to get it back so here I am back in the circa three day wait state to see if my IP Profile will go up again to 3000 kbps to give me that elusive extra 500 kbps download through put. From previous experience given time it will go up again. I saw an opportunity on Friday because round lunch time my downstream Noise Margin was 16 dB so with that sort of overhead I went for it. I was on 3392 so I thought it was worth a try and it paid off. :fingers:
A Modify edit because having heard about Hostlink I just had a thought, could the fact that I managed the 3424 kbps be anything to do with that?
So I have just done the following:
C:\>tracert www.idnet.com
Tracing route to www.idnet.com [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms <1 ms home [192.168.1.254]
2 27 ms 27 ms 25 ms telehouse-gw2-lo1.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
3 64 ms 384 ms 387 ms telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
4 27 ms 25 ms 25 ms redbus-gw2-g0-1-331.idnet.net [212.69.63.5]
5 26 ms 25 ms 27 ms redbus-gw1-fa2-0-300.idnet.net [212.69.63.225]
6 26 ms 25 ms 25 ms www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]
Trace complete.
C:\>
Are there any clues in there? ???
As I understand the Hostlink won't effect your sync with the local exchange as it takes off after that.
:iagree:
What's been said, Les, the hostlink only cuts in after your reach IDNet. The wait for the profile, btw, is likely to be 5 days.
Ah I see. Thanks for the information guys.
4-1/3 days and counting while still waiting for my IP Profile to go up by 500 kbps.
How do BT justify this annoying lag between syncing at the 3424 kbps and getting the benefit?
OK a rhetorical question but I know there are many who feel like me about it. :(
They justify it as demonstrating stability, Les. :(
I have heard it before Rik in my cynical way I reckon its just a way of shedding load by the back door.
Anyway in just over 5 days I have realised an elusive IP Profile of 3000 kbps once again:
QuoteDownload speed achieved during the test was - 2804 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :3424 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 3000 Kbps
:thumb:
Well here I am 32 days + with a sync of 3424 Kbps as shown below from my 2700HGV stats.
System Time: Tuesday, December 22, 2009
06:31:44 PM
GMT Standard Time
Time Since Last Boot: 32 days 04: 50: 38
Last ID Post: Saturday, December 12, 2009
03:03:46 AM
DSL Down Up
Current Rate: 3424 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 3424 kbs 1068 kbs
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin: 11.0 dB 25.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.1 dB 26.0 dB
Current Output Power: 18.8 dBm 11.9 dBm
I have maintained my 3000 Kbps IP Profile but with this evening's Noise Margin down to 11 dB and still falling from daytime highs of 15/16 dB I dare not risk a re-sync even during the daytime high. If only I could have my 12 dB target Noise Margin back I just might make an IP Profile of 3500 once again.
I know from previous excursions in this direction that Support and BT agree to try 9 dB and it flirts straight back to 15 without not so much of a linger at 12 dB for the least little thing! Ah well I guess an IP Profile of 3000 is a lot better than the 2500 I have had for most of this year but it is a skin of the teeth job holding on to it.
I know how you feel, Les. BT's line management software seems to operate on a hair trigger. :(