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Technical News & Discussion => IDNet Help => Topic started by: Myst on Oct 21, 2008, 12:32:02

Title: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 21, 2008, 12:32:02
Hi Guys

I'm looking to swap ISP's at present.

I'm currently with Madasafish, and other than getting as a rule asian call centres who know very little other than reboot your router to every issue they have been ok.

Still not 100% sure where i will end up but here was recommended and seems to be born out judging of the thinkbroadband site.

Other potential ones are O2, Plusnet or BT (cough spit)

My main use is gaming on the pc, with the kids on various consoles.
Would Idnet be a good home for this kind of set up? Also if i was to give it a whirl, is the 1 month notice genuine or is there any small print to be aware of?

Thanks
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Inactive on Oct 21, 2008, 12:37:31
Hi Myst and welcome to the forum.

I can only answer part of your questions, others will answer in full in a short time.

The " one month " part is 100% correct, if you are not happy with IDNet, you can leave without any hassle.

I was with Plusnet ( part of BT ), I have been at IDNet for about 2 years now, completely happy with the excellent service.

:welc: :karma:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 21, 2008, 13:05:26
Hi Myst, and  :welc:

Can't add to what Inactive said above, except to say that I've been happy with IDNet for just over a year now. 
No one is perfect, and there have been occasional problems, but we can guarantee that you won't be directed to an Asian call centre, and that customer services are always very supportive.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 21, 2008, 14:25:32
Hi Myst

Welcome to the forum. :welc: :karma:

As In and Simon has said, IDNet give a good service with a real person on the end of a phone at Letchworth if you do have a problem. Generally, latency is good, the network is guaranteed to be free of contention (though BT are doing their best to negate that) and the 30 day notice is just that. You could give it, if you wanted to, a couple of days after migrating in, and IDNet wouldn't make life hard for you.

IDNet, however, is not ideal for anyone who wants to download the entire internet daily, an Enta-reseller would be better in that case. They should be able to offer ADSL2+ products next month, for those on upgraded exchanges. Otherwise, is you want the higher speeds, then O2 would be better for you.

Apart from an unlimited number of email addresses, you also get free webspace, blogspace and photo album with most packages.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: DarkStar on Oct 21, 2008, 16:40:03
Hi Myst, :welc:
I have been with IDNet for nearly two months now and haven't regretted it at all. This IDNetters forum really is the icing on the cake.
Apart from that I migrated in from Fast.co.uk (I was previously with MAAF) and after getting very variable speeds with Fast I can honestly say that with IDNet my speeds are consistent within a couple of mbps day and night 24/7.
Short of BT buying them out  :fingers: I'm staying put,

Ian



Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 21, 2008, 16:41:43
Thanks for the positive report, Ian.  :karma:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: vitriol on Oct 21, 2008, 18:02:03
I'm a PC Gamer and I also have Xbox360 with Live, I've had jno problems latency wise.  Always get very decent pings especially to UK servers.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 21, 2008, 19:01:11
Welcome to the forum, Myst. :karma:

I would say IDNet are amongst the best IPStream ISPs, and I can't imagine you'd be disappointed. As Rik says, they have a network guarantee, though BT are playing games at the moment in the run up to 21CN and WBC.

As far as LLU goes, I've heard good things about O2, although what I can say is that their support won't be as good to deal with as IDNet's! But they're very different ISPs at the end of the day. :)

What's your line like? Could you post some stats? If you've got a good line you could get interleaving switched off, which would improve pings (something, I gather, that's essential for gaming).
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: cavillas on Oct 21, 2008, 19:33:29
I have been with IDNet for nearly 3 years now and have enjoyed the experience throughout.  They have introduced free web space, photo space and blog space since I first joined and things have never dropped below perfect, except for a couple of things out of Idnets control but which were cleared up quickly.

I have been recommending Idnet for a long time now and will continue to do so.

Welcome Myst.  Are my eyes clouding over? ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 21, 2008, 19:37:47
Thanks for the quick replies;  it shows the feeling towards here very positive, thanks for taking the time to voice your opinions.

I think i shall be signing up shortly and see 1st hand.

Sebby, results below from speedtester.bt.com, i would agree with the result, its about what i get fairly consistently- is that enough or are there more comprensive reports to be found elsewhere?

Ping is certainly an issue, i tend to get between 60-75 as a rule on my dedicated box which is hosted in London, where as others can get in the 20's and the majority of UK players between 35-45.
I'm about 1.5 miles from exchange.

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
   Your DSL connection rate: 2272 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
   IP profile for your line is - 2000 kbps
   Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1829 kbps

Thanks again :)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 21, 2008, 20:10:46
Ah, so you're on a 2Mb fixed product. Could you post the stats from the router?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 21, 2008, 21:15:10
Signed the dotted line so hopefully in a few days i'll be connected here

As far as i'm aware my present service is meant to be on an up to 8mb service rather than a fixed one

Router info.

ADSL Link                    Downstream                 Upstream
Connection Speed            2272 kbps                448 kbps
Line Attenuation              49 db                      15 db
Noise Margin                   2147483647 db          14 db
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: vitriol on Oct 21, 2008, 21:47:45
if you post the ip of your london based server I'm sure alot of the netters will post ping and tracert stats to it.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: hairyman on Oct 21, 2008, 22:08:15
Hi Myst

Looks like you are on a fixed rate 2meg service at the moment.

If yr line atten downstream of 49 db is to be believed yr line may be poor or long but I dont think your Downstream noise margin of 2147483647db can be right perhaps a reboot of the router and a repost would be useful. The line attn and snr may then change.

Idnet are very very helpful and would recommend fully. O2 are also super especially if they have their own gear at yr exchange as then you can get a very good deal if you have an O2 mobile ( even a payg mobile will get you a 8meg service for just £7.50 a month so long as you top up £10 every three months I think).

Idnet seems the best ISP using the BT ipstream product at a fair price.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 21, 2008, 22:35:10
You can probably expect around 5Mb sync, so around 4Mb throughput, Myst. I'd look into replacing that Netgear router, though. They typically sync too high at the expense of the noise margin - yours is currently negative, but Netgears can't report it properly.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: David on Oct 21, 2008, 22:36:26
Hi Myset  :welc2: :karma: I cannot add anything accept to say I moved from a not so great isp earlier this year,I have cut my teeth on call centers abroad they had me do everything bar whistle a tune down the phone.A good learning curve for me.I had got my list down to 3 I think and after a lot of looking and a lot of reading came here,and Im not talking about this forum (this comes as a free bonus)

The support here imho is second to none,when my router was set up I had problems with my line and not only did Bt engineer call Idnet,support then talked me through the whole thing,which is not easy in my case.I have always had brilliant service here with my uninterupted and not capped in any way service and It would take a lot for me to consider any other.

Any of us can leave at anytime with just a months notice...you really cannot lose.

Well thats my halfpennies worth I dont envy you making the choice.Im glad I made the right move. :karma:
You only get one karma but I like stereo so much  ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 21, 2008, 22:50:38
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2496 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 50 db 15 db
Noise Margin 13 db 14 db

Thats following a reboot
I do have a D-Link although have never used as i have never thought i had an isse with the Netgear

Vitriol, the IP is 81.19.219.120

Again, thanks all for taking the time, i appreciate it.
On the strength of the replies i have now passed on my Mac code so will soon see 1st hand
An additional  plus side of here is a new place to spam...i mean write creative prose :)

Cheers guys
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 21, 2008, 22:53:20
Hmm, so you're not on a fixed 2Mb service, you're already on Max by the look of it, and it seems like it might not be the Netgear that's to blame after all, but rather a lot of noise causing the downstream sync to be reduced (coupled with the fact that there may have been some instability, which has caused your target noise margin to be pushed up, causing you to sync lower, in an attempt to stabilise the connection).

What's your setup like? Are you plugged in to an extension socket? Do you have a BT master socket with a removable lower half?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 21, 2008, 23:06:24
Can't remember what the socket is, although i think yes the lower half comes off, i can suss that in morning. Don't want to go wandering around the house as kids / wife asleep.

Other that that i have an extension running upstairs into a socket, this one does by looks of it havehalf that comes off. Netgear wired into that - pc wired connection into router. laptops / consoles are wireless although not on that often.

Also have sky wired in off the master and main phone on a filter.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 21, 2008, 23:08:00
The master socket would be the first socket where the line comes into the house. Are you sure the one upstairs isn't the master socket, and the cable runs downstairs to an extension?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 21, 2008, 23:15:44
The one upstairs used to be a 2nd line afaik. I'm sure the people we bought it from used it as a home / office. Since we have been in the line was dead until last year when i had it connected to the socket downstairs
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 21, 2008, 23:21:51
Okay. Well if they've just wired to that socket from the real master socket (so it's now an extension), that's not the one we want to remove the faceplate from. If possible, determine where the line enters the house and hopefully the socket will look like this:

(http://www.readman.dsl.pipex.com/other/UKphonecatwiring_files/image012.jpg)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 21, 2008, 23:25:08
I'm 99% certail that is the type thats in place.
Will have a look in the morning m8 and post from work, off to hit the sack now as up at 6 :(
Also i'm sure you have better things to do than stay here to  keep replying to me. Tis appreciated though all the same.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 21, 2008, 23:33:56
Don't worry, Myst, we're here to help.  Well, the ones that know what they're talking about, like Sebby are anyway.  The rest of us just tag along for the ride.  ;D

Just looking at your user name, and noting you're a bit of a gamer, can I ask, does it refer to the games of the same name?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 21, 2008, 23:37:51
Quote from: Myst on Oct 21, 2008, 23:25:08
I'm 99% certail that is the type thats in place.
Will have a look in the morning m8 and post from work, off to hit the sack now as up at 6 :(

Okay, no worries. :)

Quote from: Myst on Oct 21, 2008, 23:25:08Also i'm sure you have better things to do than stay here to  keep replying to me. Tis appreciated though all the same.

Like sleep? I prefer to stay up. :P
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: zappaDPJ on Oct 21, 2008, 23:41:45
Hi Myst and welcome.

I think you have made the right choice. I've just migrated from Be* which I believe is on the same exchange hardware as O2. While it is true that they do have the potential for providing a lot of bandwidth at a good price I don't think they would have been the best choice for your gaming requirements.

I left Be* because my latency at peak times measured in seconds which is something I've noticed a lot of O2 customers are also starting to complain about. There seems to be an on going issue with congested exchanges but it appears there are few plans for any upgrades in the near future.

My latency to gaming servers during the two weeks I've been with IDNet have been great with no packet loss. I've also found their support service to be second to none so far which is another huge bonus over most other IPS.

Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Dangerjunkie on Oct 22, 2008, 00:47:15
Hi Myst,

The installation you have there doesn't seem right to me. I agree with Sebby, you should be getting 5MB at that kind of distance from the exchange. To give a comparison I'm about twice as far from the exchange as you (assuming you meant 1.5miles driving) and I'm getting 3MB (50% more than you.)

How old are your modem and filters? Are the filters ones you got free from your ISP or how much did you pay for them please? How is the second socket connected to the first? (From the removable front half, from the screws round the back, with a junction box or outside? Who connected the upstairs socket to the line? What kind of cable is used? (round, oval or flat?)

I've never done it but I think having 2 master sockets may me a bad idea and could well affect the ADSL performance.  Sky boxes are also notoriously bad for screwing up ADSL signals as they produce a lot of electrical noise. Are you still in your 1st 12 months with Sky and do you ever use Sky Box Office or any of the interactive stuff like shopping or competitions?

The good news is that the speed problem can probably be fixed without spending silly money and if you're reasonably handy with a screwdriver you can do it all yourself. You'll get all the advice you need here :)

Cheers,
Paul.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 22, 2008, 08:16:00
Quote from: Myst on Oct 21, 2008, 23:06:24
Also have sky wired in off the master and main phone on a filter.

Do you need the Sky box connected, Myst? If not, try disconnecting it, they are renowned for putting noise on the line.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 10:45:31
Morning all.

Yes the Sky connection is needed as we do use the Box Office on occasions.
I think too although i never had time to look this morning  the Sky cable is hardwired in behind the plate; could be wrong though (another facet of getting older :blush:) I'll check this along with type of plate tonight.

If its not hardwired i'll take it off and also gonna take some Cat5 home tonight and plug the router into the master socket and run to pc from there to see if it makes any difference at all.

Looking on Kitz.co.uk  they report distance to exchange as

Distance:- Direct:    2.5 km
  (appx)* By Road: 4.83 km

Simon yes a bit of a gamer - since 75ish, playing Pong then through Spectrums to Pc's and just about every other machine inbetween. The name is more an abbreviation from Mysteron that i have always used as i was a Capt. Scarlet fan in a younger life; it equally could have been anything from Joe 90 to Fireball XL5 as i liked all those type programs (god i sound a right saddo  :blush:) Other forums i go on, the members tended to shorten full version to Myst so that kinda stuck from there.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 22, 2008, 10:47:47
Unplug the Sky box, Myst and just plug it in when you want to order an SBO event/film - see if that helps.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: David on Oct 22, 2008, 10:49:02
Well done Myset I take my hat off to you,when Im 75 I doubt if I will be able to play these games  ;D


Welcome to Idnet............(you may groan) the mods dont mind if we enjoy ourselves  >:D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 11:02:52
LMAO, not quite ready for the pension book and bus pass yet  :laugh:
I started playing IN 75 not at !  :P
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: David on Oct 22, 2008, 11:04:27
 :thumb: consider your induction complete............watch out for that In though  :legpull:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Inactive on Oct 22, 2008, 11:05:59
Quote from: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 11:02:52
LMAO, not quite ready for the pension book and bus pass yet  :laugh:
I started playing IN 75 not at !  :P

If you were 75 in 75, then you would need to worry..  ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: David on Oct 22, 2008, 11:09:01
I did warn you Myset...............he creeps up on you  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 11:11:41
Nice one, David, first :lol: of the day!  :karmic:  But I'll have to owe it to you.  ;)

Myst, I was only a casual gamer for a while, and used to get hooked on some of the point and click puzzle type games, such as Myst, Monkey Island, Harry Potter, etc, but I just don't have time for them these days.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Inactive on Oct 22, 2008, 11:14:55
Quote from: badpianoplayer on Oct 22, 2008, 11:09:01
I did warn you Myset...............he creeps up on you  ;D ;D

;D Have a  :karmic: for the laugh David.. :thumb: ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: David on Oct 22, 2008, 11:22:21
 :ithank: :ithank: ;D :laugh:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 11:26:29
Thats it, pick on the new kid  :laugh:

I run a couple of forums so quite used to it ;) Just remember though, what goes around generally comes around >:D -
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Inactive on Oct 22, 2008, 11:27:31
Very true Myst ;)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 11:33:36
A sense of honour is one of the rules here!  ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 11:34:51
Oops, I meant sense of humour!  Bloody phone!  :lol:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Inactive on Oct 22, 2008, 11:39:28
" bloody phone " only does as it is told Simon..  ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 11:40:43
Multi tasking obviously not one of your strong points  ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: David on Oct 22, 2008, 11:44:11
Quote from: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 11:26:29
Thats it, pick on the new kid  :laugh:

I run a couple of forums so quite used to it ;) Just remember though, what goes around generally comes around >:D -

:iagree: :nana: In Simons case its a sense of direction needed  :whistle:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 12:00:43
'Bloody phone' doesn't do what it's told, In, it makes up it's own words!  ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Inactive on Oct 22, 2008, 12:08:47
It has a built in sense of humour Simon..  ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 12:35:57
 ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 22, 2008, 12:51:26
Look what you've done to Myst's thread now. :P
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 12:57:02
Blummin hijackers the lot of them  ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 13:04:09
It's traditional here, Myst! :)x
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 22, 2008, 15:48:13
Quote from: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 11:34:51
Oops, I meant sense of humour!  Bloody phone!  :lol:

What, have we joined the Mafia now? ;D  :o
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 22, 2008, 15:49:33
Quote from: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 12:57:02
Blummin hijackers the lot of them  ;D

You'll get used to it, Myst. I'm surprised no-one's mentioned food yet... I'm having meatballs and pasta tonight, how about you? ;D  :hungry:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: David on Oct 22, 2008, 16:02:42
Simon,you owe me £20,I bet Rik would mention food before In mentioned his bladder so I win  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 22, 2008, 16:04:41
Only £20, David. For such a safe bet. ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Inactive on Oct 22, 2008, 16:06:05
He won't pay you David, he will say it was 2 tenor's. ;)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 22, 2008, 16:07:08
A performance of Romeo & Duet?  ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: David on Oct 22, 2008, 16:10:55
QuoteOnly £20, David. For such a safe bet.
He gets the mother in law for 6 months (mine)  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 16:18:25
QuoteYou'll get used to it, Myst. I'm surprised no-one's mentioned food yet... I'm having meatballs and pasta tonight, how about you?   

A nice Chicken Tikka Madras with, Chips, Naan bread, and Bombay Potatoes at my end :)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 22, 2008, 16:20:29
Did you have to mention chips??  :o I'm trying to be good. ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 16:24:01
Did you also have to mention your end?  :o ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 22, 2008, 16:25:39
All things must pass. ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: David on Oct 22, 2008, 16:30:16
Quote from: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 16:24:01
Did you also have to mention your end?  :o ;D
:rofl:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: vitriol on Oct 22, 2008, 17:40:44
Back on topic

here is my ping to your server

Pinging 81.19.219.120 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 81.19.219.120: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=122
Reply from 81.19.219.120: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=122
Reply from 81.19.219.120: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=122
Reply from 81.19.219.120: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=122

Ping statistics for 81.19.219.120:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 22ms, Maximum = 27ms, Average = 24ms

In a game this would probably equate to around 40 - 50 ms.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 22, 2008, 19:42:50
Quote from: Rik on Oct 22, 2008, 16:04:41
Only £20, David. For such a safe bet. ;D

:rofl:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 22, 2008, 19:43:19
Quote from: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 16:18:25
A nice Chicken Tikka Madras with, Chips, Naan bread, and Bombay Potatoes at my end :)

You're making me hungry! ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 21:11:50
Belly well full now :)

Back sort of on subject

I have disconnected sky and that results in the below

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2272 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 49 db 15 db
Noise Margin 11 db 15 db

Yes its a socket that splits in half.
I have also ran some Cat cable from router plugged direct from master socket - if anything the pings increased, not by anything substantial but it was an increase, tried same with the D-link router to same result. Looks like i'm stuck with what i have got.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 21:39:12
It will be interesting to see what happens when you migrate, Myst.  Sorry, I've lost track a bit, who are you with at the moment?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 22, 2008, 21:51:55
Could you remove the lower half of the socket and connect the router to the socket behind the plate, and re-post the stats, by any chance?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 21:52:09
Can't understand how you could lose track on a thread like this  :whistle: lol

I'm with Madasafish m8, according to the mail from Idnet i should go live by 27th
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 21:53:29
Quote from: Sebby on Oct 22, 2008, 21:51:55
Could you remove the lower half of the socket and connect the router to the socket behind the plate, and re-post the stats, by any chance?

I can tomorrow Sebby, back with the kids / wife asleep now so dont want to run her wrath - it was bad enough earlier and all she had to do was step over the cable :)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 22, 2008, 21:55:12
:lol:

Okay, well if you could do it tomorrow, it would be interesting to the see the stats. I suspect they'll improve a fair bit. If they do, you can remove the ring wire (I just replied in the other thread about that), which should give almost the same result. :)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 21:58:45
Nice, i'll give it a whirl, just gotta hope i don't cut the wrong one :) or i may as well look for lodgings now
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 22, 2008, 21:59:41
Terminal 3, it's usually orange... You can't go wrong. ;D :fingers:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 22:02:10
u wanna bet, i'm the most cackhanded person ever  :blush:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 22, 2008, 22:06:38
:rofl:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 22:09:24
I remember now, Myst!  ;D  I just wondered if there might be some traffic management going on with MAAF?  Pipex denied it when I was with them, but my move to IDNet proved there was some throttling in evidence.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 22, 2008, 22:11:22
But the problem is sync, so it wouldn't be to do with madasafish (even if they are part of Tiscali!). :)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 22:12:55
The service i was on allegedly did not throttle and was supposedly optimised for game traffic (my main use)

Will see soon enough any difference. Perhaps the biggest may be the ring wire one that Sebby has suggested.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 22, 2008, 22:13:33
Oh, OK.  I'll get me coat...!  ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 23, 2008, 11:11:43
Quote from: Myst on Oct 22, 2008, 22:02:10
u wanna bet, i'm the most cackhanded person ever  :blush:

Don't cut the wire, Myst, use a small pair of pliers to gently pull it upwards and out of the connector.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 23, 2008, 20:27:09
Plate off, orange wire disconnected, connected direct into rear of plate and yes a definite improvement - just need to see if that remains once it connects as normal. will have to see if there is an orange wire upstairs and take that off as well when i resume to normal way.

strangely though running a test on speedtest shows no improvment

Router

ADSL Link                     Downstream                 Upstream
Connection Speed          3776 kbps          448 kbps
Line Attenuation            51 db                  14.5 db
Noise Margin                 10 db                         22 db

thanks guys


Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 23, 2008, 21:11:02
hmmm

Not so good hooking back up to the normal route :)

this is with both ring wires disconnected too. Would appear only way would be to run the cat cable up but i can't see that being an option

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2208 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 50 db 15 db
Noise Margin 9 db 21 db
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 23, 2008, 22:22:42
There's a good reason for those results, Myst. When you connect behind the faceplate on the master socket, that bypasses all the extension wiring. You saw an improvement, which provide it's the extension wiring that's responsible for causing you to sync lower. The removal of the ring wire at this point makes no difference as all the extension wiring has been bypassed.

To get similar results from an extension, you need to remove all ring wires, otherwise you will see absolutely no difference.

As I say, you have now proved that the extension wiring is picking up noise, so removing the ring wires should help you achieve similar results, but you must do every one of them. :)

By the way, with regards to the speed test you ran when you were sync'd at the improve rate, you won't see an improvement for about 3 days as the line profile needs to adjust.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 23, 2008, 22:26:17
Only have the 2 sockets - 1 master in hall and 2nd upstairs next to pc. both wires are out?
I can only put it down to the feed from the master socket to upstairs.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 23, 2008, 22:27:11
Okay, if you're sure all ring wires are removed and the sync is not improved (when you have proved that you can get better by trying the test socket) it must indeed be the feed from the master to upstairs. What sort of cable is it?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 23, 2008, 22:30:19
Seems to be standard BT type from what i can tell - may be slightly more modern as the ring wire was orange & white.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 23, 2008, 22:33:16
Hmm, strange. It might be worth replacing the wire with some twisted pair, but of course, there's no guarantee that'll sort it. It could be the socket itself, for example. Is it not possible to site the router at the master socket permanently? That way you could fit a filtered faceplate.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 23, 2008, 22:35:35
I would still have the issue or running a connection upstairs to pc - going wireless is no good for gaming
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Steve on Oct 23, 2008, 22:53:41
Is mains networking "homeplugs" an option for gaming.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 23, 2008, 22:59:26
No, unforunately the lag would have an effect still. perfectly fine for slow based stuff but FPS games do require a stable environment. strangely the 360 & Wii seem less affected even though they are wireless
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: hairyman on Oct 23, 2008, 23:04:58
How about running an ethernet connection upstairs from yr router which should be on the mastersocket. This should be better at carrying a data signal than most telephone extension leads carrying a ADSL signal.

The ethernet is essentially a digital on /off signal whereas the ADSL signal carried over the phone line is an analog based signal ( basically a low frequency multiplexed radio signal ). Like most analog vs digital battles the digital wins when signals are sub optimal. ADSL is far more likely to get corrupted than ethernet when running around all our electrically noisy household gear and external radio noise from transmissions.

Analogue is fine when signals are high over noise ( near exchange / low attn on line)  or data rates low as in dial up modem tones down the line ( remember them ) or say Morse code at 30 words per minute.

I didnt think wireless connections to a router should introduce much delay as long as the connection is good though. Personally I just hate even the idea of broadcasting my data over a wireless system when there is a simple wired alternative. I will consult my wireless guru at work but I know he uses it for on line gaming.

Mains plug type links have a major problem if you already have electrically environment as the mains carries loads of noise from all over.

I know we can hear them ( mains plug ethernet)  on my shortwave radio when they are on and am sure I could block them completely if as a radio ham  I fired up a shortwave transmitter. Currently I only have receiving gear ham gear active here though.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Steve on Oct 23, 2008, 23:08:02
I know my eldest son used to play wow via homeplugs but never did find out whether he had any latency issues or poor fps. :)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Lance on Oct 23, 2008, 23:47:32
the most wireless adds is 1ms on your ping!

Would it be possible to remove the second socket completely, replace it with a network point and then put a new network socket in downstairs? Should be easy enough to get the cable down, just tie it to the cable already there and pull in through!
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 24, 2008, 00:11:40
Hairyman/Lance's suggestion is a good one. You'd be much better getting rid of the second socket. Fit a filtered faceplate at the master socket (this (http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php) is my favourite) and run a network cable upstairs instead.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 09:14:29
Just a thought, Myst, but what colours are the wires on terminals 2 & 5. I'm wondering if it's been wired with a split pair.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 24, 2008, 10:23:07
Not sure Rik would have to look over weekend

Thanks for all the replies guys, Lance its not just the ping - i could live with that, one or two on our server who are wireless suffer some serious lag, thats why i prefer to be hardwired.

To put the cable up i guess wouldnt be a real hardship as the current one is tacked over the doors and up the stairs that way. only issue its not an extension in the master socket but is actually hardwired behind it  I'm thinking i may if its possible get someone out to hardwire the Cat6 and follow the same route- it seems you can get some flat cable that maye be less obtrusive to she who must be obeyed.

failing that i've lived with what i have got for a few years so could continue along same way - if it wasn't for you guys here helping i would have been none the wiser. (thats a compliment, not a critiscm) :)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 24, 2008, 10:26:33
I'm glad we were able to help. Let us know what you decide to do. :)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 10:27:39
Hi Myst

Are you saying that there are no wires connected to the faceplate when you remove it?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 24, 2008, 12:09:45
There are two i think on the plate when i un screw it - there was also the orange ring wire, as there is/was upstairs. Both of which have been disconnected. I'm 99.9% certain i have no other BT sockets in the house. Thats why all i can think is that the current extension cable is not that good. I'm going to get some better quality type tomorrow and see if that makes a difference; if it does, great i'll just replace the existing. If not i'll have to have a rethink.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 24, 2008, 12:10:45
Okay, so they were connected to the faceplate, that's good. Really it can only be the quality of that cable, then. Incidentally, what are the colours of the two wires that are connected?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 12:13:30
OK, Myst, then I'm puzzled by what you said above
Quoteonly issue its not an extension in the master socket but is actually hardwired behind it
.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 24, 2008, 12:20:50
Rik

From what i recall, the room i use was used as a home office by previous owners - they had a 2nd line installed to run the fax/phone. That has a master type socket in the room and the cabling then comes down stairs and is chased behind the d/stairs master socket.

About a year ago i had that enabled by an engineer so i could connect using the original 2nd line via that one as up to then i had to put a seperate extension lead running from modem to the d/stairs connection.

Sebby - i'll check that tomorrow, off top of head i think they were a blue and a green, but don't take that as gospel
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 24, 2008, 12:25:34
I'm not sure I quite understand the setup, but perhaps Rik does. :P

Regarding the colours, it's just to address Rik's point about a split pair being used. :)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 12:29:31
Take the master socket off the wall, Myst, and check what wires are connected to the rear would you?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 24, 2008, 12:36:58
I'l ldo that tomorrow Rik as i have 5-a-side to go to tonight.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 12:40:31
The rear of the socket is where the exchange pair connect, Myst. Occasionally, BT engineers will hard-wire and extension there, rather than use the face plate.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 24, 2008, 13:57:13
Quote from: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 12:40:31
Occasionally, BT engineers will hard-wire and extension there, rather than use the face plate.

Indeed, which they shouldn't have done.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Glenn on Oct 24, 2008, 13:58:57
Thats exactly what they did when my ADSL was installed, hardwired both extenstions
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 14:37:30
Pointless fitting an NTE5 when they do that, isn't it, Glenn? :(
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 24, 2008, 17:41:05
Found a 2nd extension - its the old style. Looks as if that was a one installed when the house was built. Disconnected the ring wire there too; again no difference though unfortunately
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 17:42:30
I am suspicious you are going to find an extension or two hard-wired to the back of the master, Myst. In which case, a re-wire could improve things dramatically.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 24, 2008, 17:43:44
I'll take a pic tomorrow of what lurks behind.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 24, 2008, 17:43:56
I just thought of something that would go against that, Rik (sorry, I wasn't trying to think of something!). Things were better in the test socket - if the extension wiring was hard-wired, the test socket would make no difference...
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 17:45:13
I agree, Seb, I'm just puzzled by where all these wires go...
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 24, 2008, 17:46:57
It is bizarre, I'll give you that. It just suddenly dawned on me that if they were hard-wired, why the improvement at the test socket?

:think:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 24, 2008, 17:47:16
Quote from: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 17:45:13
I agree, Seb, I'm just puzzled by where all these wires go...

Behind a little white box in my halway  ;)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 17:48:23
Can you take some photos, Myst?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 24, 2008, 17:49:48
4 posts up Rik  ;D

Wil lhave that tomorrow at latest, possibly later after footy
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 17:50:21
I have a very short attention span.  :blush:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 24, 2008, 17:51:04
lol - i have that effect on folk
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 17:53:28
I blame David. ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Simon on Oct 24, 2008, 17:56:50
Quote from: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 17:53:28
I blame David. ;D

For everything?  :evil:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2008, 17:57:08
Naturally.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Tacitus on Oct 24, 2008, 18:49:29
Quote from: Myst on Oct 24, 2008, 10:23:07
.......I'm thinking i may if its possible get someone out to hardwire the Cat6 and follow the same route- it seems you can get some flat cable that maye be less obtrusive to she who must be obeyed.

It is possible to purchase white Cat5e cable, which might be more acceptable to your other half  :)

http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16183&cat=255&page=1 (http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16183&cat=255&page=1)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 24, 2008, 19:34:12
Thanks, i'l lkeep that in mind if i do go that route
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 25, 2008, 16:15:53
Temporarily set it up wirelessly using a D-Link usb dongle to feed the main pc.
Back up to 3776 Downstream.

In game although the ping is there or thereabouts i am getting connection interrupts as i thought.
If i try to keep this set up would a designated wireless network card in pc be better than the USB dongle, or would there not be a great deal of difference?
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 25, 2008, 16:19:25
I doubt you'd see that much difference, Myst, though a dedicated card would put less load on the processor than a USB dongle.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Steve on Oct 25, 2008, 16:21:15
Which wireless control are you using as windows zero config utility rescans for available networks every so often thus causing connection interupts
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 25, 2008, 17:08:09
All i have done is literally plugged it in, selected my network and thats it.

Where would i look to stop it doing that
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 25, 2008, 17:13:09
Not sure, Myst as I'm on wired connections, sorry. I know the Wireless Zero Configuration facility runs as a service, but I doubt it's as simple as disabling that. :(
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 25, 2008, 17:48:27
I've disabled the windows one and running on the D Link one although the utility program refuses to open it is running
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Steve on Oct 25, 2008, 17:56:10
There is a bit of info at the bottom of  this (http://www.smallbusinesscomputing.com/webmaster/article.php/3577111) page but also you will get lots of hits on google about this service and gaming.

I think if you going to use the D-Link software if its works in a similar fashion to netgear's you must install it prior to the dongle and it should give you the option whether to use wndows wireless controls or its own.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 25, 2008, 18:20:20
Cheers Steve,

Thats how i installed it hoever for some reason when i try to use the D Link program it kicks in with an error with a wlan dll missing message and fails to open
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Steve on Oct 25, 2008, 19:05:11
Any relation to this (http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080131072604AAXjJb4)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 25, 2008, 23:38:53
Yeah that was it, tried the fix to no avail. managed to d/load a newer version that works fine, although even still there are quite a few fluctuations.

Will run with it for a while and see where i go next if need be

Thanks
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 27, 2008, 17:41:17
All activated straightforward here today :)  - will persevere wireless until its all settled then look for a permanent method.
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 27, 2008, 17:44:28
Welcome to the fold. :)
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 27, 2008, 17:50:26
Thanks Rik
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Rik on Oct 27, 2008, 17:52:45
Of course, now we expect your posting rate to increase.  >:D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 27, 2008, 17:54:57
Run for your life, Myst! ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Myst on Oct 27, 2008, 20:22:51
hehe, well i do intend to be a regular visitor so i'm sure there will ample opportunity to spam add some valuable content  ;D
Title: Re: Potential Customer - couple of questions
Post by: Sebby on Oct 27, 2008, 20:24:19
:rofl: