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Technical News & Discussion => Mobile Devices News & Discussion => Topic started by: Simon on Aug 24, 2011, 22:14:37

Title: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Simon on Aug 24, 2011, 22:14:37
Apple has scored another victory in its patent war with Samsung, with the iPhone rival provisionally ordered to stop selling the Galaxy S, Galaxy S II and Ace smartphones in Europe.

The ruling in a Dutch court comes into effect in seven weeks, and entails a preliminary injunction that blocks sales of the handsets that are sold and distributed in Europe through Holland, where it runs its European logistics base.

According to patent specialist blogger Florian Mueller, who broke the story on the Foss Patents blog, the seven-week grace period could give Samsung time to reorganise its logistics so that one of its Korean subsidiaries could still sell handsets in Europe.

The injunction relates to patents surrounding how users browse galleries, and could be enforceable in many European countries, including the UK.

Read more: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/369508/apple-scores-european-ban-on-samsung-smartphones
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Steve on Aug 24, 2011, 22:27:43
It's about time they sorted all this out,it's just tit for tat. Whilst Apple have every right right to protect their commercial properties and patents I'm not sure it does either parties reputation any good in the long term.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: john on Aug 24, 2011, 22:43:52
Whilst patents are necessary to ensure intellectual rights it seems to me that Apple are using patent law to stifle any competition much as Watt and Boulton did with the steam engine (http://mises.org/daily/3280) which restricted development until the patents expired.

Deciding whether Apples patents have actually been infringed will no doubt take time and I think the only winners will be the lawyers.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Technical Ben on Aug 24, 2011, 22:59:13
Quote from: Simon on Aug 24, 2011, 22:14:37
...The injunction relates to patents surrounding how users browse galleries...
So they patented pressing a button? GREEEEAAAAT.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: pctech on Aug 24, 2011, 23:06:34
There's not that many ways you can differentiate a rectangular case that houses a touch screen, mic, speaker and the circuitry to make it work.

Afraid I think Jobs is fighting dirty and is frankly and odious man.

Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Steve on Aug 24, 2011, 23:07:26
It's not even that, it's a finger gesture or swipe. We can all think of a few finger gestures. >:D


http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/24/ban-on-sale-of-samsung-galaxy-smartphones-in-eu-set-for-october-13th/
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: pctech on Aug 24, 2011, 23:19:47
Apple must be running out of ideas then.

Time Jobs went now I think.

Maybe they ought to promote Jonathon Ive to CEO as it was after all his designs that made Apple products popular.

And this will shock you, I was seriously considering buying a Mac Mini to use alongside my PC to broaden my OS technical knowledge.

Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Simon on Aug 24, 2011, 23:20:16
Quote from: Steve on Aug 24, 2011, 23:07:26
It's not even that, it's a finger gesture or swipe. We can all think of a few finger gestures. >:D


http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/24/ban-on-sale-of-samsung-galaxy-smartphones-in-eu-set-for-october-13th/

Yes, I couldn't quite see what the argument was either.  How else are you supposed to view galleries on a touch screen phone?  :dunno:
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Lance on Aug 25, 2011, 00:03:57
Seems Jobs was listening to you, Mitch.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Simon on Aug 25, 2011, 00:10:15
Blimey!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14659127

Future developments will be interesting...
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Aug 25, 2011, 01:26:11
I don't know, I don't see the Snow Leopard changing its spots.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Glenn on Aug 25, 2011, 05:47:42
How long before Samsung have 'production difficulties' in their chip processing plants, and can only supply a limited number of cpu's for iPad/iPhone production?
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Technical Ben on Aug 25, 2011, 07:27:42
Quote from: Simon on Aug 24, 2011, 23:20:16
Yes, I couldn't quite see what the argument was either.  How else are you supposed to view galleries on a touch screen phone?  :dunno:

If it's not an Apple Iphone your not.  :shake:

Here is the quote.
Quote"In some embodiments, the user interacts with the GUI primarily through finger contacts and gestures on the touch-sensitive display," the patent reads. "Instructions for performing photo management may be included in a computer program product configured for execution by one or more processors."

This world is so broken.  :eyebrow:

[Edit]
PS Samsung are smeg heads for not pointing out an infinite amount of "prior art" or usage of this exact patent.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: pctech on Aug 25, 2011, 10:04:05
Quote from: Lance on Aug 25, 2011, 00:03:57
Seems Jobs was listening to you, Mitch.

I wouldn't wish ill health on anyone but now he is out of day to day operational control lets hope this madness stops although Tim Cook is said to be his protégé so I won't hold my breath.

Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Technical Ben on Aug 25, 2011, 11:26:19
I fear the madness can only get worse. These things end up like Hydras (see microsoft :D).
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: john on Oct 21, 2011, 16:43:05
Apparently Steve Jobs wasn't too happy  with Android (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15400984) :whistle:
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Oct 21, 2011, 16:52:40
Happy being the understatement of the year.  ;D
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: john on Oct 21, 2011, 17:22:28
The thing is that Apple have by all accounts made some good and desirable products and they should not need to resort to patent tactics to stifle any competition.

I'm not conversant with patent law but I could understand it if their competitors have actually copied their technology but if they have just produced a product that works in a similar way but using different technology then I'm not sure Apple can supress it.

As I haven't got either an Apple or Android device I'll see what the courts decide but maybe someone here can explain it further.

Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Simon on Oct 21, 2011, 18:26:59
I think it's all a bit ridiculous.  It's like one motor manufacturer suing another because their cars also have a round steering wheel.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Oct 21, 2011, 18:31:31
Exactly. As I said, can you imagine what it would have been like if the first concept of writing had been patented, the concept of printing? The world would lack so much knowledge. This sort of behaviour needs to stop, there should be some cooperation, which recognises a basic idea, eg files, folder, icons, apps etc, are essential to computing and are shared, but that the technology of their implementation does deserve protection.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: lozcart on Oct 21, 2011, 18:38:50
Its probably things like this that makes Apple unhappy with Samsung

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/09/28/no-comment-proof-that-samsung-shamelessly-copies-apple/
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Oct 22, 2011, 03:03:46
I still say Samsung chose a better microphone. ;)
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Technical Ben on Oct 22, 2011, 06:30:49
Thing is, from a "design" view, the two are as different as chalk and chips. But a "functional" side, yes exactly the same. I ask, how was Samsung to avoid 1) a square screen? 2) A square box 3) a square plug 4) a thin usb adapter on a thin computer? 5) A picture of a microphone on a recording device fitted with a microphone?
It's like asking the car designer not to use wheels cos Apple used them first. :/

I agree there is a definite rip off on the packaging. However, go after everyone else too. Tesco, M&S Sainburies. They all rip off other packaging and design companies (looks at the Tesco rip off of Walkers crisps)...
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Gary on Oct 22, 2011, 07:17:46
Quote from: Technical Ben on Oct 22, 2011, 06:30:49
Thing is, from a "design" view, the two are as different as chalk and chips. But a "functional" side, yes exactly the same. I ask, how was Samsung to avoid 1) a square screen? 2) A square box 3) a square plug 4) a thin usb adapter on a thin computer? 5) A picture of a microphone on a recording device fitted with a microphone?
It's like asking the car designer not to use wheels cos Apple used them first. :/

I agree there is a definite rip off on the packaging. However, go after everyone else too. Tesco, M&S Sainburies. They all rip off other packaging and design companies (looks at the Tesco rip off of Walkers crisps)...
Intellectual wars, tbh there is more more important things going on in life for me to really care about this right now, but since its mentioned HTC managed with sense UI to avoid doing the same, Samsung chose icons etc that look very similar, design wise it looks very similar, and yes you can do a lot with a square screen, look at SE phones. I really find blind hatred of certain corporations to be dull. None of them do thing for the sole benefit of us, that's the only thing I am sure of. (Apple dont sell crisps by the way) ;)
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Steve on Oct 22, 2011, 08:04:25
Surely it's about protecting your intellectual property, having spent a fortune developing IOS. Why would Apple let Google have a free ride on the back of it with Android platform.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: lozcart on Oct 22, 2011, 10:33:40
I agree there are only certain ways you can make a square phone/tablet but look how Samsungs designs changed after Apple released products.

http://maypalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Samsung-Products-vs-Apple-products.jpg
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Simon on Oct 22, 2011, 11:38:36
If you're going to plagiarise, plagiarise from the best.  ;)
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Technical Ben on Oct 22, 2011, 17:25:51
I agree. But why fight the wind for blowing when you can use it to power your sails.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Den on Oct 23, 2011, 21:26:48
Microsoft should sue apple for bringing out Safari after all it's a browser and so is IE.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Simon on Oct 23, 2011, 21:28:50
You call IE a browser?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Den on Oct 23, 2011, 21:51:40
I call IE9 the best browser  ;D
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Gary on Oct 24, 2011, 10:04:06
Quote from: Den on Oct 23, 2011, 21:51:40
I call IE9 the best browser  ;D
Its good to be hopeful  ;) Chrome is probably one of the best these days, IE9 is bottom of the pile for standards and speed again  ::) also easily hacked, Chrome and FF are the hardest, Safari is pathetic that way. Opera not sure on.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: pctech on Oct 24, 2011, 10:18:21
Safari and Chrome use the same rendering engine, webkit.

Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Technical Ben on Oct 24, 2011, 10:33:34
Quote from: lozcart on Oct 22, 2011, 10:33:40
I agree there are only certain ways you can make a square phone/tablet but look how Samsungs designs changed after Apple released products.

http://maypalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Samsung-Products-vs-Apple-products.jpg

Oh, sorry. I failed to notice. That comparison is flawed. Touch screen v non touch in those pictures. The same applies to any vendor. touch screen has certain requirements, irrespective of style or design. Granted previous to Apple, most touch screen devices had buttons too. Apple proved you could have pure touch, and a customer would not freak out. Or to put it simply, Apple taught people to ride bicycles (touch), everyone else dropped the third wheel (buttons).

I'm not sure you can patent "removing buttons". ???

[edit]

Here you go. This pre-dates Apple right?! By about 5 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Compaq_TC1100

So they can not pull the "you are copying us" card. No one is being copied, except HP!!!

The problem is, this is "TV" style functionality. All TVs are square + black rectangle sides. You cannot go suing another TV company for making the same shape or colour. It's an unavoidable design.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Glenn on Oct 24, 2011, 10:53:21
I have a TC1100 at home, apart from a resistive screen (you need to use the supplied pen) it works fine. All it now does though is run TeamSpeak.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: pctech on Oct 24, 2011, 10:55:23
Phones are getting increasingly dull don't you think?

Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2011, 11:46:32
Quote from: Den on Oct 23, 2011, 21:26:48
Microsoft should sue apple for bringing out Safari after all it's a browser and so is IE.  :whistle:

Netscape got there first, Den. :)
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Glenn on Oct 24, 2011, 12:10:37
NCSA Mosaic was Netscapes forerunner  ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCSA_Mosaic
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2011, 12:13:04
Before my time, Glenn. ;D
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Technical Ben on Oct 24, 2011, 12:26:01
That's a relief, we won't blame you for the dreadful graphics! :D
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2011, 12:35:02
 ;D
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Lance on Oct 24, 2011, 16:59:50
Quote from: Rik on Oct 24, 2011, 12:13:04
Before my time, Glenn. ;D

Its not often you can say that!!  ;D
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: pctech on Oct 24, 2011, 17:08:44
Quote from: Lance on Oct 24, 2011, 16:59:50
Its not often you can say that!!  ;D

He can't, it came out in 1993  ;D
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Oct 24, 2011, 17:31:59
Quote from: Lance on Oct 24, 2011, 16:59:50
Its not often you can say that!!  ;D

:nana: But increasingly true. ;D
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Gary on Oct 24, 2011, 22:10:56
Quote from: pctech on Oct 24, 2011, 10:18:21
Safari and Chrome use the same rendering engine, webkit.


And your point?...Chrome is sandboxed with better security than Safari, Mitch. I mean tin cans are generally made of the same material but that does not mean they all contain beans. ;)
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Gary on Oct 24, 2011, 22:13:28
Quote from: pctech on Oct 24, 2011, 10:55:23
Phones are getting increasingly dull don't you think?


I thought you just got a new one?
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Simon on Oct 24, 2011, 22:15:41
Quote from: Gary on Oct 24, 2011, 22:10:56
I mean tin cans are generally made of the same material but that does not mean they all contain beans. ;)

:laugh:
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Glenn on Oct 24, 2011, 22:20:09
They don't have much tin either.  ;)
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Simon on Oct 24, 2011, 22:57:50
I'm beginning to think mine's been banned.  The 5 will be out by the time the bleedin' 4S arrives.  :(
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Lance on Oct 24, 2011, 23:31:26
Good things come to those who wait!
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Simon on Oct 24, 2011, 23:37:36
I'm bound to be out when it's delivered.  What's worrying is that it was shipped on the 22nd, but there's still no tracking info on the TNT website. 
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Steve on Oct 25, 2011, 06:40:02
Sounds a bit like my tracking, not available until after the delivery was carded.
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Simon on Oct 25, 2011, 08:52:46
I've now found it by going through a special Apple link on the TNT site.  Still seems to be scheduled for today. 
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Inkblot on Oct 25, 2011, 11:57:04
Some interesting background on 'patent wars' here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15343549 and here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15433188
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Oct 25, 2011, 12:05:31
Quote from: Lance on Oct 24, 2011, 23:31:26
Good things come to those who wait!

Unless it's sitting in the depot still  :evil:
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Simon on Oct 25, 2011, 12:58:33
It's out for delivery!  :woot:
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Oct 25, 2011, 13:04:21
:happy:
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Glenn on Nov 22, 2011, 17:35:39
The EU are now investigating both Apple and Samsung. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/22/patents_unfair_competition/
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Nov 22, 2011, 17:40:15
This seems to have run as long as Corrie. :sigh:
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Glenn on Nov 22, 2011, 17:46:47
The popcorn has gone mouldy and the drink has gone flat. Here they both are :tease:
Title: Re: Apple scores European ban on Samsung smartphones
Post by: Rik on Nov 22, 2011, 17:50:38
I know just what you mean, it's become a bad French farce.