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Technical News & Discussion => IDNet Help => Topic started by: RCS2K4 on Feb 02, 2011, 21:06:21

Title: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: RCS2K4 on Feb 02, 2011, 21:06:21
So, here it is. This is the longest I have ever stayed with one ISP - 6 years this year. Sadly, service isn't what it should be. The speed is having frequent drop-out's, especially in the evenings (congestion?), and I get random bursts of packet loss.

Synthetic speed tests are looking ok, but since Sunday loads of requests to go to youtube, BBC, Facebook, Photobucket etc all randomly time out when I click links. This is just for a few sites. I can't believe all of the sites are all down at the same time - the odds are well against that. Some tracert tests to these sites using CMD are interesting. There's always a huge pause, or no reply when telehouse-gw5-e4-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.245] appears as one of the hops, so you never reach the destination site.

It's random, getting worse and online gaming is really interesting via PSN and Live at the moment - I'm lagging a good 400-500 Ms in some cases. IDNET's support was not it's usual self when I called them earlier, hence my post here (they blamed the router). For the reccord, the router's fine as I plugged in my spare Linksys 300N and I have the same problem.

Any ideas (ps, broadband package is Home SuperPro)?

Some router stats from my main router (Netgear DGND3300 V2):
System Up Time 1030:26:26

Port      Status           TxPkts          RxPkts         Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN      PPPoA           4549786       7965054       0 541 3718 162:53:42
LAN      10M/100M       83273046     61532217      0 843 529 1030:26:22
WLAN 11M/54M/270M   229811        229811         0 10 10 1030:26:10


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15766 kbps 910 kbps
Line Attenuation 31.5 db 15.6 db
Noise Margin 5.1 db 5.4 db

Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Steve on Feb 02, 2011, 22:47:12
There is a LINX peering issue being reported over on AAISP so that could well be the source of tonight's problems, however I'm not seeing anything myself i.e BBC
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Lance on Feb 02, 2011, 22:57:41
I can say with complete confidence that the problem is local to your line or at worst your exchange. I'm wondering if it would be worth you running routerstats so we can see if your line is dropping at all. If it's mainly the evening that you experience the slowdown then it's a good chance it is exchange congestion.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Technical Ben on Feb 02, 2011, 23:06:16
I'd normally say "not a chance". However, doing tests I get a tiny amount of packet loss (up to 2% but no more). Not sure if it's IDNet, or general "uk internet" at fault.
Did not notice any difference in games, or browsing. I use Open DNS though for pages.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: RCS2K4 on Feb 02, 2011, 23:10:24
I dont have RouterStats installed, but in terms of line dropping vs sync speed, the Netgear DGND3300 already logs and records this. It says that the sync rate is 15766 [D], 910 , Uptime on the line is almost as long as the router's been up for since the last power down: 1032:28:57 - Cool, thats 43 days of stability. I would say my line is ok.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: esh on Feb 02, 2011, 23:31:57
Also have ~2% packet loss at peak times and have lost a megabit or so over the past year. It is still reliable though.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 02, 2011, 23:34:07
Not sure if it's connected, but over the last couple of weeks my ping monitor has been showing spikes that weren't there before:

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/2bb6278bbd007d748737bb7ac820fcf4-02-02-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/2bb6278bbd007d748737bb7ac820fcf4-02-02-2011.html)

Note the fat spikes at about 4:30am, 11am, 2:30pm(?), and 6pm. They're not me, they're new and getting more frequent...
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: sof2er on Feb 03, 2011, 01:21:02
Got the exact same thing as Bill, my broadband monitors used to be clean in terms of yellow spikes (always had packet loss of about 2 to 4% with IDNet.) and lately I'm seeing alot of yellow spikes despite not even downloading or uploading.

I'm sure it's not exchange related, because they're happening at 04:00 AM too...
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 03, 2011, 05:12:20
Quote from: RCS2K4 on Feb 02, 2011, 21:06:21
So, here it is. This is the longest I have ever stayed with one ISP - 6 years this year. Sadly, service isn't what it should be. The speed is having frequent drop-out's, especially in the evenings (congestion?), and I get random bursts of packet loss.

Synthetic speed tests are looking ok, but since Sunday loads of requests to go to youtube, BBC, Facebook, Photobucket etc all randomly time out when I click links. This is just for a few sites. I can't believe all of the sites are all down at the same time - the odds are well against that. Some tracert tests to these sites using CMD are interesting. There's always a huge pause, or no reply when telehouse-gw5-e4-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.245] appears as one of the hops, so you never reach the destination site.

It's random, getting worse and online gaming is really interesting via PSN and Live at the moment - I'm lagging a good 400-500 Ms in some cases. IDNET's support was not it's usual self when I called them earlier, hence my post here (they blamed the router). For the reccord, the router's fine as I plugged in my spare Linksys 300N and I have the same problem.

Any ideas (ps, broadband package is Home SuperPro)?

Some router stats from my main router (Netgear DGND3300 V2):
System Up Time 1030:26:26

Port      Status           TxPkts          RxPkts         Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN      PPPoA           4549786       7965054       0 541 3718 162:53:42
LAN      10M/100M       83273046     61532217      0 843 529 1030:26:22
WLAN 11M/54M/270M   229811        229811         0 10 10 1030:26:10


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15766 kbps 910 kbps
Line Attenuation 31.5 db 15.6 db
Noise Margin 5.1 db 5.4 db


Same issues with Facebook , BBC etc when pinged it showed 'host not resolved' changing DNS cured that for me but I prefer idnets DNS for speed, unless my exchange is having the same issues and it effects DNS resolution, the issues vanish using Norton DNS or OpenDNS. These issues happen in the day and at night, the BBC was a once off, but Google, Youtube, and Facebook all suffer the same "server not found" This can occur while actually using the sites. I have two routers and it happens on both until dns nameservers are changed as I said. I also have lost 10ms off my ping times they are creeping up again back to 24ms from 14ms.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 03, 2011, 08:16:26
Gone back to DynDNS for the time being, it works and that's what I need.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Steve on Feb 03, 2011, 08:39:04
Gary,Being stupid how does DynDNS solve the problem for you.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 03, 2011, 09:01:56
Quote from: Steve on Feb 03, 2011, 08:39:04
Gary,Being stupid how does DynDNS solve the problem for you.
Well the sites resolve correctly, what is happening is when I browse I get server not found, or when on the site you loose connection to it, when you ping the site you get that message about host cannot be resolved but other sites can still be accessed fine, by changing DNS servers from Idnets to OpenDNS, DynDNS or Norton DNS it all resolves correctly. Pings are still higher right now for some reason but I can access sites correctly, my MTU is set at 1458 after testing to get the right value.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: JB on Feb 03, 2011, 09:06:42

I have been getting ~2% packet loss with IDNet for quite a time now. One of the ways this seems to manifest itself is when clicking a link to a new web page. Firefox (or whatever) will just sit there saying "loading page" but click the link again and the new page loads immediately and quickly. I have a solid 8012 connection with a steady 9db margin on my HGV2700. Have tried all the combinations of different router, different browser, different DNS's and different OS, but the results are the same.

My son, who is a senior network manager, was staying over Xmas and by running various reverse traceroutes from his own server, has pretty much decided the problem lies within IDNet somewhere.

I'm at my property in Spain atm using Telefonica on a poorer line but with an HGV2700. The difference is apparent, with pages loading on first click all of the time.

I love IDNet and the community spirit but I am coming close to at least trying a different ISP (Zen or AAISP) to see if the issue goes away.

Just my 2C.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 03, 2011, 09:20:14
Well I got the router answer from Idnet, that feels a bit bit scripted really but there you go. I do not think its both my routers, I think its something to do with Idnets DNS and maybe something a bit deeper, I will monitor things but if it stays fine using another DNS server, its not my set up, which I am already 99% sure is fine.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 03, 2011, 09:30:18
I've been using IDNet's DNS, but have switched to OpenDNS for a while to see what happens.

It doesn't appear to be configured for IPv6 though, so I'm not going to stick with it.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: esh on Feb 03, 2011, 09:32:11
The IDNet DNS has been fairly reasonable for me of recent. I have had periods where the odd resolution would fail, since this was logged by my server performing regular ping quality tests, but I haven't seen that for a while now. I have assumed the 2% loss (and 100KB/s loss) is in the BT backbone because I certainly did not get it 1-2 years ago.

Edit: getting back on topic... obvious DNS resolution shouldn't really affect the ping time to a hop. That said we've had IDNet staff in here saying that you can't really measure line quality by pinging some of the telehouse routers because they have ICMP on a very low priority and hence it will appear more laggy than it really is. That said, although I do not go via the telehouse hop you report, I can ping it just fine and get 7ms.

Is there any test that *always* gives a bad result as opposed to intermittently?
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 03, 2011, 09:38:09
I don't really think it has anything to do with DNS either, but it's an easy check to do so what the hell ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 03, 2011, 09:45:20
Quote from: Bill on Feb 03, 2011, 09:38:09
I don't really think it has anything to do with DNS either, but it's an easy check to do so what the hell ;D
Well why does changing DNS servers stop the issue of DNS lookups not resolving correctly? As for IPV6 I am sure when it's needed OpenDNS like others will be ready. Right this very second Its not my highest priority to be IPV6 enabled, especially as my Router is not set up for that. Once again it has the capability in a hidden page but it's not been turned on yet. Also companies like DynDNS and Open DNS have been in the business of providing alternative DNS servers for quite a while, with servers world wide so I belive they are pretty knowledgeable in that area.  :)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 03, 2011, 09:56:03
Quote from: Gary on Feb 03, 2011, 09:45:20
Well why does changing DNS servers stop the issue of DNS lookups not resolving correctly?

I was referring to my problem of periods of elevated pings... it may or may not be related to the other problems in this topic but, as I said, it's easy to do. If it doesn't make any difference then my problem is probably unrelated to yours :P

QuoteAs for IPV6 I am sure when it's needed OpenDNS like others will be ready.


I'm sure you're right, but I want it now- I like new toys ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 03, 2011, 10:15:33
Quote from: Bill on Feb 03, 2011, 09:56:03
I'm sure you're right, but I want it now- I like new toys ;D
Patience is a virtue they say, but if there is one thing I have learnt now as far as computers are involved, Bill. Being at the bleeding edge hurts to much as you get older  ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 10:24:40
I've seen no packet loss, no DNS problems, my only issue seems to be BT working at the exchange and disconnecting me periodically.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 03, 2011, 10:26:26
Quote from: Gary on Feb 03, 2011, 10:15:33
Patience is a virtue they say


I thought I'd try it because everthing I've got here is IPv6-capable... it works fine using 6to4 tunnelling (and IDNet's DNS!) but I can't go native IPv6 because (according to Simon Davies) the BT RADIUS servers don't know about IPv6 yet so the router login only works for IPv4 :mad:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 10:29:12
BT will get there, Bill, probably in a decade or so. Hell, they can't even get the speedtester to work and you expect IPv6? ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 03, 2011, 10:37:37
Quote from: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 10:24:40
I've seen no packet loss, no DNS problems, my only issue seems to be BT working at the exchange and disconnecting me periodically.

It's by no means impossible that the periods of high latency I'm seeing are down to BT messing about, maybe causing my routing to go a bit haywire at times. But it could be related to the OP's problem so I thought I'd put in my four penn'orth.

I've always had a low level of background packet loss, average probably <0.1%, so that's not a problem here.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 10:42:23
With BT, anything is possible.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Simon_idnet on Feb 03, 2011, 10:58:22
We do monitor packet loss across our network and have, so far, not spotted any problems or trends that might be heading towrds a potential problem. We'll keep a close eye on the monitors. Exchange and BRAS congestion can show symtoms like this.

I'll go take a look at the DNS resolvers. I'm not convinced that they're playing-up as they are one of those services that we get to hear about very quickly and very loudly if there is ever a problem!
Simon
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 11:00:02
Thanks, Simon. :) I've certainly not seen any issues here.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: wdforte on Feb 03, 2011, 11:11:01
Quote from: 6jb on Feb 03, 2011, 09:06:42
I have been getting ~2% packet loss with IDNet for quite a time now. One of the ways this seems to manifest itself is when clicking a link to a new web page. Firefox (or whatever) will just sit there saying "loading page" but click the link again and the new page loads immediately and quickly. I have a solid 8012 connection with a steady 9db margin on my HGV2700. Have tried all the combinations of different router, different browser, different DNS's and different OS, but the results are the same.

My son, who is a senior network manager, was staying over Xmas and by running various reverse traceroutes from his own server, has pretty much decided the problem lies within IDNet somewhere.

I'm at my property in Spain atm using Telefonica on a poorer line but with an HGV2700. The difference is apparent, with pages loading on first click all of the time.

I love IDNet and the community spirit but I am coming close to at least trying a different ISP (Zen or AAISP) to see if the issue goes away.

Just my 2C.


Get exactly the same problem as 6jb. Having to click twice to get anything to happen, on the second click all works well, a bit annoying to say the least. :( Does not happen on my 2nd line with another ISP :dunno:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 11:11:41
Have you talked to support WD?
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: wdforte on Feb 03, 2011, 11:15:16
No, not as yet as thought it may be my equipment but reading 6jb's post has thrown a different light on the problem. ;)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 11:18:59
Worth a word, they can investigate for you.  :)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: wdforte on Feb 03, 2011, 11:21:19
Thanks ;)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: JB on Feb 03, 2011, 11:56:08
I wonder if it has something to do with how you are connected to IDNet?

I am on gw5 with an IP of 91.135.9.xxx

Rik and WDFORTE what are your connections?

Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 11:59:57
The same as yours, JB.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: wdforte on Feb 03, 2011, 12:08:48
I am on GW 5 with an IP address of 212.69.53.XX

Replying to this thread the two click problem just happened again :dunno:

Hope this info helps? ;)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 12:09:35
That can happen with the forum software if the server is busy, WD.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: DorsetBoy on Feb 03, 2011, 12:17:58
The forum is playing silly beggars at this moment and I am not on an IDNet connection.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 12:25:32
Slow response, Dorset or needing a kick?
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: DorsetBoy on Feb 03, 2011, 12:27:39
Possibly both .....  ;D

Very slow response times between actions, hit reply or post and the page eventually does as it should.

(of course it's now running normally again    ::)  )
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 12:28:48
The problem is that the server we moved to after the hack can get a bit busy. Some sites will be moving to another server soon, which should help us.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: JB on Feb 03, 2011, 12:30:32
Thanks for the info guys.

It's not just the IDNetters forum which is giving me this problem. It can happen on any web site at any time.

When I get home I'll ask IDNet if it is possible to move me over to another gateway, just to see if it helps. If they can't it will be difficult to assess why it is happening. It could always be BT of course, but in all other respects the connection is superb. If I download a large file a steady speed of 750 - 800 MB/s results every time.

I guess I could try Zen or AAIP for a few months to see if that fixes it. If not then it has to be some strange BT issue and I guess it's time to give up  >:(

Just to comment on Dorset's last post, the forum is working perfectly here in Spain on Telefonica BB.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 12:33:30
It's all a matter of timing, JB. If you hit a link when the CPU is tied up, it will be slow. A fraction of a second later and it's fine. I tend to see a lot of variations during the course of the day. How's your weather?
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: JB on Feb 03, 2011, 12:37:11
Can only speak as I find it Rik. The forum is working fine for me this morning.

It's 16.5C here atm and a clear sunny blue sky. However, predicting a drop to 4C overnight. Only here for a week though, so back to the predicted winds this weekend.

Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 12:39:53
Sounds my kind of temperature. :)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: zappaDPJ on Feb 03, 2011, 13:19:32
Quote from: Bill on Feb 02, 2011, 23:34:07
Not sure if it's connected, but over the last couple of weeks my ping monitor has been showing spikes that weren't there before:

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/2bb6278bbd007d748737bb7ac820fcf4-02-02-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/2bb6278bbd007d748737bb7ac820fcf4-02-02-2011.html)

Note the fat spikes at about 4:30am, 11am, 2:30pm(?), and 6pm. They're not me, they're new and getting more frequent...

I've not noticed (or looked for) any packet loss issues on my connection but my tbb monitor seem to mirror yours Bill.

This is what I'm getting now...

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/28a840b72a67d209b845b7654a37d2f1-03-02-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/28a840b72a67d209b845b7654a37d2f1-03-02-2011.html)

From a month ago...

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/36fe12c2bfaaad84487face9b16ce542-06-01-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/36fe12c2bfaaad84487face9b16ce542-06-01-2011.html)

My only real complaint is I've had a lot of buffering on streamed material recently. My profile has take a 5000 Kbps drop since I had FTTC installed but that still leaves me with more than enough bandwidth to cope. It could of course be a problem with the source server but it does seem to be happening quite frequently, especially on iPlayer.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 03, 2011, 13:26:17
My "month ago" trace:

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/aaff22816478d7d0445d6f3f44a14f5e-06-01-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/aaff22816478d7d0445d6f3f44a14f5e-06-01-2011.html)

:dunno:

edit- changed it for the same day as Zap's, a month ago was a Bank Holiday :red:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: pctech on Feb 03, 2011, 14:13:00
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Feb 03, 2011, 13:19:32


My only real complaint is I've had a lot of buffering on streamed material recently. My profile has take a 5000 Kbps drop since I had FTTC installed but that still leaves me with more than enough bandwidth to cope. It could of course be a problem with the source server but it does seem to be happening quite frequently, especially on iPlayer.

Not sure if you use Youtube a lot Zap but I've noticed problems with it too but seems to be Google related rather than ISP related because as you know am on a different ISP.

Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Simon on Feb 03, 2011, 14:36:04
Some YT videos load immediately, and some seem to buffer for ages, then play a bit at a time.  :dunno:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 03, 2011, 15:13:12
Well all is fine using other DNS as said so I'll stick with that for now, as long as pages load and sites do not fail to load when in use I'm happy  :)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Technical Ben on Feb 03, 2011, 15:20:07
Quote from: Simon on Feb 03, 2011, 14:36:04
Some YT videos load immediately, and some seem to buffer for ages, then play a bit at a time.  :dunno:
I get the same. Perhaps some older/less popular videos are stored else where? And the newer, popular ones are on Akima?
I've not noticed any other packet loss, so might have been a one off.  :red:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: zappaDPJ on Feb 03, 2011, 15:38:27
Quote from: pctech on Feb 03, 2011, 14:13:00
Not sure if you use Youtube a lot Zap but I've noticed problems with it too but seems to be Google related rather than ISP related because as you know am on a different ISP.

Pretty much what Simon says above but iPlayer, Sky Player and ITV Player have all been quite bad recently, loads of buffering and quite often I just can't get the content to start. I appear to have more than sufficient bandwidth when this occurs so I wouldn't rule out a server issue.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 15:39:32
The broadcasters have been pushing their 'catch up' services a lot lately, I wonder if they've been caught out by demand?
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: pctech on Feb 03, 2011, 15:50:59
Not sure about Sky but ITV and iPlayer seem to stream from an Akamai cache which in my case is local because its integrated into the network and is streaming smoothly.

Might be an idea to start a program and then run a netstat (not sure of the equivalent command in Linux) and look for established connections to anything mentioning Akamai and then run a tracert to it to perhaps indicate the route its taking and then post here?

Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: sof2er on Feb 03, 2011, 16:11:27
Month Ago:
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/a3106532e2a46fa69be89b2127a51df5-07-01-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/a3106532e2a46fa69be89b2127a51df5-07-01-2011.html)

Now:
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/ff1d69732d1703271905554d06a9f90f.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/ff1d69732d1703271905554d06a9f90f.html)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Lance on Feb 03, 2011, 16:50:51
I seem to remember that IDNet have a peering arrangement with the BBC (which enabled multicast streaming when that was being tested). I wonder if that helps when pulling something down on iPlayer?
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: pctech on Feb 03, 2011, 17:07:34
I think its now cached instead Lance as Zen have a similar agreement (and were also testing multicast) but when I stream from iPlayer it always comes from the Akamai caches which in my case are on the Zen network and the traffic only has to travel over one 10 gig link.



Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: armadillo on Feb 03, 2011, 17:41:46
I just assumed it was a quirk in the way the LAN accesses the router. I frequently get this:

(http://stepscape.www.idnet.com/default/FFcantFind.jpg)

Clicking "try again" always works. And it can happen even if I'm already on the site and it happens with any or all sites apparently at random. I first noticed it when I migrated to IDnet. But that also coincided with when I changed from using a USB modem to using a router. I just assumed that the LAN doesn't always find the router. It's no great problem. Nothing else seems to fail and downloads go through fine.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 17:43:22
Are you sure your line hasn't dropped briefly, Dill? I had the same thing three times yesterday.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: pctech on Feb 03, 2011, 17:43:37
Might be advisable to put IDNet's DNS server addresses directly into Windows as sometimes the router can not answer the requests.

Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 17:44:15
Yes, that's well worth doing. :thumb:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: armadillo on Feb 03, 2011, 17:49:15
No the line hasn't dropped. Nothing shows up on router stats and LAN and WAN up time are both unaffected.

I agree I could put the DNS servers in explicitly but I tend to think I might as well leave it alone, since it's no more than a tiny irritation.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 17:54:42
The only other thing I can think of is the server was busy, but it shouldn't generate that error.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: armadillo on Feb 03, 2011, 18:04:02
True. It would give a "taking too long to respond" error, I think. But the error I do get also comes up if I unplug the LAN cable from the router. And also if I type in a non-existent web address. So I think it's impossible to distinguish between a DNS error and a failure for the PC to find the router, unless there is a consistent error on one or more site addresses.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 18:07:48
You're right there, intermittent faults are a real pain to track down.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: armadillo on Feb 03, 2011, 18:21:05
I just wonder if the faults that are the subject of the whole thread are just examples of such intermittent faults.

BTW, when you talk of inputting the DNS addresses explicitly, do you mean

HERE (1)

(http://stepscape.www.idnet.com/default/IP%20properties.jpg)

or HERE (2)

(http://stepscape.www.idnet.com/default/routerDNS.jpg)

or both?

I tend not to mess with things that work most of the time!
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 18:22:12
1, Dill. If you change it in the router, it forces a resync, changing it in Windows doesn't.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: armadillo on Feb 03, 2011, 18:28:53
Thanks Rik. But I think I'll go and cook some food instead!
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Steve on Feb 03, 2011, 18:31:25
D.N.S  = Do Not Starve :blush:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 03, 2011, 18:32:31
:lol:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 03, 2011, 18:33:45
Well, my latency peaks look the same on OpenDNS, so it's back to IDNet's servers and a working IPv6 ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Lance on Feb 03, 2011, 21:47:05
Quote from: pctech on Feb 03, 2011, 17:43:37
Might be advisable to put IDNet's DNS server addresses directly into Windows as sometimes the router can not answer the requests.



Very good advice. I used to get the problem of the website not loading but when I entered the DNS servers directly into windows the problem went away instantly.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Steve on Feb 03, 2011, 21:53:45
Plus it's a very quick way of ruling out any DNS issues as it's a simple to swop from one to the other
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: armadillo on Feb 03, 2011, 22:27:22
Ok, I've now entered the IDnet DNS addresses directly so it will be interesting to see if I ever get that Firefox error again.

Did Not Starve worked well too! I'm always happier after food.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 04, 2011, 09:26:29
My latency spikes seem to have gone away...

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/404b09237b7f9650c1f55d3d738f58a6-04-02-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/404b09237b7f9650c1f55d3d738f58a6-04-02-2011.html)

So either switching to OpenDNS and back cured it (unlikely) or whatever was causing it has finished/been fixed :dunno:

How about the others who've been seeing a similar effect?
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Glenn on Feb 04, 2011, 09:32:41
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/4ceabf4cfdc09f389b720699f9cf439f-04-02-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/4ceabf4cfdc09f389b720699f9cf439f-04-02-2011.html)

That is my current graph
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 04, 2011, 09:38:20
Quote from: Glenn on Feb 04, 2011, 09:32:41

That is my current graph

Perhaps I'll keep my fingers crossed for a while longer...
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Steve on Feb 04, 2011, 10:09:15
Isn't Glenn's graph fairly typical for an adsl connection though?
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 04, 2011, 10:13:59
Is there such a thing as a typical adsl connection though? My graph has always been pretty free of nasty yellow spikes...

More typical of a medium-congested exchange, I'd say.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: esh on Feb 04, 2011, 10:42:19
Looks like your packet loss went away along with the lag spikes, Bill. Sounds like an overcongested path or something. Either things got balanced out a bit better or a router fixed? I have no idea.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 04, 2011, 10:51:35
I thought about a congested path, but the worst (highest and longest) spike usually occurred at about 4am... I prefer a gently dying router getting fixed.

Or maybe BT finishing some work, I doubt I'll ever know :dunno:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 10:55:32
Not unless you consult Mystic Meg, Bill. ;)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 04, 2011, 11:11:42
I wouldn't dream of trespassing on BT's forecasting department :evil:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 11:12:37
 ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Technical Ben on Feb 04, 2011, 11:19:51
Quote from: Bill on Feb 04, 2011, 09:26:29
My latency spikes seem to have gone away...

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/404b09237b7f9650c1f55d3d738f58a6-04-02-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/404b09237b7f9650c1f55d3d738f58a6-04-02-2011.html)

So either switching to OpenDNS and back cured it (unlikely) or whatever was causing it has finished/been fixed :dunno:

How about the others who've been seeing a similar effect?
Router reset?
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 04, 2011, 11:51:16
Quote from: Technical Ben on Feb 04, 2011, 11:19:51
Router reset?

Maybe... but it wasn't mine :P
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 04, 2011, 11:58:45
Oddly last night idnetters at about 2am was off the grid, even using 'down for everyone or just me' said it was unavailable  :dunno: switched back to IDnets DNS so will see what happens now.  :dunno:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 12:00:38
There was a server problem at 2:03, Gary.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 04, 2011, 12:02:25
Quote from: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 12:00:38
There was a server problem at 2:03, Gary.
Ahh I did wonder, saying that I should have been in bed anyway.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 12:04:14
Exactly. ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: pctech on Feb 04, 2011, 12:05:21
Crikey Gary and I thought I had obscure surfing habits.

Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 04, 2011, 12:06:37
Quote from: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 12:04:14
Exactly. ;D
But if I was in bed I would not have noticed server issues, it would maybe have slip past in the binary night unnoticed, except by you and idnet dungeons towers ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 04, 2011, 12:07:10
Quote from: pctech on Feb 04, 2011, 12:05:21
Crikey Gary and I thought I had obscure surfing habits.


I am up till 2:30am most nights Mitch.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 12:08:23
The server log never sleeps. :)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 04, 2011, 12:10:00
Quote from: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 12:08:23
The server log never sleeps. :)
Until the server falls over, then it has a rest  ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 12:14:09
We don't allow that, Gary. ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 04, 2011, 12:16:35
Quote from: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 12:14:09
We don't allow that, Gary. ;D
But I remember..... :whistle:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 12:20:15
:nana: ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 04, 2011, 12:26:05
Quote from: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 12:20:15
:nana: ;D
:gigglerabbit:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Simon on Feb 04, 2011, 12:27:54
One little glitch!!  Trust someone to notice!   ;) ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 04, 2011, 12:29:54
Quote from: Simon on Feb 04, 2011, 12:27:54
One little glitch!!  Trust someone to notice!   ;) ;D
Just one Simon ;)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: pctech on Feb 04, 2011, 12:50:36
We expect 100% reliability from this thing, anything less breaches the invisible SLA.

Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Simon on Feb 04, 2011, 12:53:01
;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 12:53:43
We'll get it soon too. :)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: zappaDPJ on Feb 04, 2011, 13:37:12
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/705e203d1598e8d12a6ff88e423f0244-04-02-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/705e203d1598e8d12a6ff88e423f0244-04-02-2011.html)

Things are certainly looking better today. What changed? :dunno:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Glenn on Feb 04, 2011, 13:40:42
Someone reported a problem and it has been fixed, maybe.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Lance on Feb 04, 2011, 14:40:51
Quote from: pctech on Feb 04, 2011, 12:50:36
We expect 100% reliability from this thing, anything less breaches the invisible SLA.



That ok, I've got some invisible compensation to pay out to you, if and when you pay your membership sub with hard visible cash.  ;D

Quote from: Glenn on Feb 04, 2011, 13:40:42
Someone reported a problem and it has been fixed, maybe.

I like the radical thinking!
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 04, 2011, 15:14:42
 ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Glenn on Feb 04, 2011, 15:32:35
 ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: sof2er on Feb 04, 2011, 17:14:57
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Feb 04, 2011, 13:37:12
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/705e203d1598e8d12a6ff88e423f0244-04-02-2011.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/705e203d1598e8d12a6ff88e423f0244-04-02-2011.html)

Things are certainly looking better today. What changed? :dunno:

(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/ff1d69732d1703271905554d06a9f90f.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/ff1d69732d1703271905554d06a9f90f.html)

Got the exact same "packet loss spike" as you do, ruling out all possible exchange related congestion problems!
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: RCS2K4 on Feb 04, 2011, 19:16:22
This thread has gathered a lot of attention since I created it! I gave it a few days, but since yesterday my packet loss issue and ping spikes magically went away. It does look like normal service has been resumed for me at least. IDNET were able to specify a possible area of weakness after my complaining, related to bottlenecking in the backhaul off my exchange. They were randomly sending packets to my IP, and every now and then some would go missing "in the middle" somewhere.

Yet again, it looks like it was a fault of BT's own doing, and not IDNET. Time to fire up the PS3 and make up for some lost gaming hours online!!! ;D The proof is in the speed and ping test. No packet loss for the first time in 5 days, and run at peak time too. Woot!

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/1142865682.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)  (http://www.pingtest.net/result/33849575.png) (http://www.pingtest.net)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: esh on Feb 04, 2011, 20:43:49
Those are very nice line stats. Glad you got something sorted.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 04, 2011, 23:37:23
Well I went back to Idnet DNS and the problems with host not resolved started again  :( back to Norton DNS and it all works fine  :dunno: No idea but I'm give up trying to find out why.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 11:00:43
I haven't had an issue with IDNet's DNS, Gary. Perhaps it's a Mac thing.  :evil:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Steve on Feb 05, 2011, 11:04:26
I've been using IDNet DNS last few days and it's been fine, however I am getting sometimes a delay this am on accessing  forum pages.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 11:06:00
I always see that, personally I believe the server is currently a bit over-loaded.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 05, 2011, 11:09:47
Quote from: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 11:00:43Perhaps it's a Mac thing.  :evil:
:getout:

:P

No DNS problems here, but there's still something odd going on. I thought that last night my latency spikes might be coming back, see BQM plot atttached.

Something seems to have started quite abruptly at 4pm and finished at 2am... seems slightly odd hours for BT?
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 11:16:23
There was a raft of BT outages yesterday, Bill, that may have impacted on you - difficult to say given the mysteries of BT's routing.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 05, 2011, 11:23:06
I saw the outages on the RSS feed but they were nowhere near me... but as you say, with BT routing it wouldn't have surprised me if the Egyptian switch off had had an impact :whistle:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 11:40:12
One of my lines routes through West Drayton, Bill, the other through Milton Keynes.  :dunno:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 05, 2011, 11:43:25
Quote from: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 11:00:43
I haven't had an issue with IDNet's DNS, Gary. Perhaps it's a Mac thing.  :evil:
Nope because it does it on Justina's lap top as well, Rik. I imagine we use very different sites at points as well. It only happens on certain sites anyway and you can open another site with no issues in another tab when the error occurs, its most odd. It really is annoying when it does play up, but by changing DNS it stops the server not found/ host cannot be resolved issue. Anyway I am now quite happy with Norton DNS it's faster than IDNets, helps protect me from nasties without any overheads and the youtube slowness is gone, so I'll stick with what works for now.  :)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 11:45:52
 :thumb:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 05, 2011, 11:50:00
Quote from: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 11:45:52
:thumb:
I'm sure it will all change again at some point, Rik. Nothing ever runs that smoothly in the online world for long periods these days, a few years back things were better I feel.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 11:50:34
Less people needing less resources.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 05, 2011, 11:54:47
Quote from: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 11:50:34
Less people needing less resources.
Indeed, back in the old days of freeserve dial up when Spybot Search and Destroy was actually useful, how times change.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 12:00:27
Dial up. Nightmares!!! :bawl:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: pctech on Feb 05, 2011, 12:02:03
But it did work consistently provided you used someone other than noserve.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 12:05:36
True, albeit briefly compared to these days.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Bill on Feb 05, 2011, 12:10:32
Quote from: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 12:00:27
Dial up. Nightmares!!! :bawl:

Off-line readers... TAPCIS :bow:

;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 12:14:27
NavCIS. ;D
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Gary on Feb 06, 2011, 09:13:32
Quote from: Rik on Feb 05, 2011, 12:00:27
Dial up. Nightmares!!! :bawl:
I remember patching XP on dial up  :bawl:
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 06, 2011, 10:41:52
Hell, wasn't it.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Simon on Feb 06, 2011, 12:08:50
It was as good as we knew at the time.  :)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 06, 2011, 12:14:48
True enough.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: esh on Feb 07, 2011, 13:03:10
I never had to patch Win 3.1 on dialup!!
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 07, 2011, 14:27:55
This is true.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Lona on Feb 07, 2011, 16:51:32
I had no connection last night for a few hours.  I checked the status on idnet today and there was nothing mentioned about it.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 07, 2011, 16:53:47
Loss of sync, Lona? If so and it took place between midnight and 7am, chances are it's BT engineering work.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Lona on Feb 07, 2011, 17:03:32
Quote from: Rik on Feb 07, 2011, 16:53:47
Loss of sync, Lona? If so and it took place between midnight and 7am, chances are it's BT engineering work.

Yes it was just after midnight and went on after I went to bed at 3am. 
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 07, 2011, 17:05:56
Classic BT pattern I'm afraid.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Lona on Feb 07, 2011, 17:12:32
Quote from: Rik on Feb 07, 2011, 17:05:56
Classic BT pattern I'm afraid.

Wasted my nocturnal viewing. ;)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 07, 2011, 17:20:20
You'll really have to start sleeping at night. ;)
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: pctech on Feb 07, 2011, 18:25:32
Days are for sleeping.

Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Lona on Feb 07, 2011, 18:27:40
Quote from: Rik on Feb 07, 2011, 17:20:20
You'll really have to start sleeping at night. ;)

I do my best thinking in the wee small hours.  I've never been a morning person.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: Rik on Feb 07, 2011, 18:32:41
I'm more of a 4-12 person myself.
Title: Re: What's with the reliability lately?
Post by: pctech on Feb 07, 2011, 18:40:45
Quote from: Lona on Feb 07, 2011, 18:27:40
I do my best thinking in the wee small hours.  I've never been a morning person.

Sparks of inspiration do tend to come then for me too.